Guild Wars 2

What i really find broken / bugged about this trap is that you cannot blink out of it without taking damage. It really make no sense that i can roll over it and be all fine but i cannot teleport outside of it

cuge.5398:

What i really find broken / bugged about this trap is that you cannot blink out of it without taking damage. It really make no sense that i can roll over it and be all fine but i cannot teleport outside of it

Because shadowsteps aren’t actually ports that teleport you from point a to b instantaneously without crossing terrain like mesmer portal. Shadowsteps must cross terrain so they are affected by all skills that are ground based (rings, walls, etc).

Kuya.6495:

cuge.5398:

What i really find broken / bugged about this trap is that you cannot blink out of it without taking damage. It really make no sense that i can roll over it and be all fine but i cannot teleport outside of it

Because shadowsteps aren’t actually ports that teleport you from point a to b instantaneously without crossing terrain like mesmer portal. Shadowsteps must cross terrain so they are affected by all skills that are ground based (rings, walls, etc).

Also Flash Wurm is a shadowstep?
The last time i’ve tried to teleport out of the trap i’ve taken damege from ToF ring.
Can’t talk for Spectral Walk, i rarely use it.

The only “broken” part of traps is the time they last, same dumb thing as marks.
A change is needed: make lasting skills like traps and marks go into a lesser cd when triggered, where the lesser CD = 1/2 full CD

Obviously only if the skill is fully recharged..

sorry to see so many people disagree with this, yesterday I went for my third profession achievement in pvp for ascension. I rank at silver this season having solo’d druid and deciding to switch my main to mesmer half way through the season. when i face them i always proceed with caution and now with mesmer i can 1 v 1 the average dh no problem but i still have to play perfectly to do it.

my point anyway, yesterday i thought i’d take dh for a spin just to get 5 wins for the achievement. the balance on this class is a joke. i did 1 unranked match to get used to the skills then in ranked i bunkered mid the entire time on most matches getting pretty much all top stats save offence. easiest 5 wins ive ever had solo, idk what the higher tiers are like but i should have had a harder time, i shrugged off any focusing with the elite and f3 no problem, my 1 trap ate people alive feeding mid every game. people in silver arent complete idiots it wasn’t a 1 at a time brainless thing. i felt so dirty and sick with myself after i had to go take 3 showers.
needs either a damage nerf or longer cool down on the traps, the longbow had amazing cleave and utilities were great at keeping me sustained through any hard focusing. while each thing isnt necessary op on its own when it all comes together even a brain dead noob to the class like me is OP let alone in the hands of someone familiar with the class, some things need to be touched on for sure.

^ Fight a Platinum Power War or try surviving vs a Thief like Kat who 2shots DH’s at half health. The class suddenly gets very challenging.

I’ve probably 1v2 people in Silver every third game, up till Gold T2. And that’s with Power Guard medi. So yes DH has an easy braindead skill floor but that skill floor will only get you so far.

I chuckle when I see a full trap medi guard get blown up, lasting only 5 seconds on point in a 1v2.

jihm.2315:

Konakona.4130:

If they didn’t see a DH or him putting traps or cannot dodge it is not DH problem, it is a people lack of skill problem. Traps have a very distinct and obvious animations and you have to be a total newbie to not recognize and react to that. In that case, obviously, it should hurt you so you could learn and improve

no giving 1 shot kill skill to a point in a point pvp game is not ok
and not being able to see someone because you where focused on something else is not a matter of skill
if it was a 1vs1 focused game i could understand but its not

and tell me where is the at skill putting some traps on a circle and fish kills like crazy

So Daredevils (Backstab), Chronos (Mantra GS burst), Berserkers (god mode GS burst…granted this class does need a bit of balancing), and P/P Condi Engi are also not ok?

Sounds like a l2p issue. If you need to practice this scenario, my guild-mates will be more than happy to help.

Ioras Dagnir.3927:

sorry to see so many people disagree with this, yesterday I went for my third profession achievement in pvp for ascension. I rank at silver this season having solo’d druid and deciding to switch my main to mesmer half way through the season. when i face them i always proceed with caution and now with mesmer i can 1 v 1 the average dh no problem but i still have to play perfectly to do it.

my point anyway, yesterday i thought i’d take dh for a spin just to get 5 wins for the achievement. the balance on this class is a joke. i did 1 unranked match to get used to the skills then in ranked i bunkered mid the entire time on most matches getting pretty much all top stats save offence. easiest 5 wins ive ever had solo, idk what the higher tiers are like but i should have had a harder time, i shrugged off any focusing with the elite and f3 no problem, my 1 trap ate people alive feeding mid every game. people in silver arent complete idiots it wasn’t a 1 at a time brainless thing. i felt so dirty and sick with myself after i had to go take 3 showers.
needs either a damage nerf or longer cool down on the traps, the longbow had amazing cleave and utilities were great at keeping me sustained through any hard focusing. while each thing isnt necessary op on its own when it all comes together even a brain dead noob to the class like me is OP let alone in the hands of someone familiar with the class, some things need to be touched on for sure.

people are obsesed whith traps, but the problem is not traps problem is LB, giving a longrange weapon to a class that could “safe” a point is the think that “breaks the game”( play im siting in my “safepoint” hiting you whith mi LB and if you reach me boom traps)
i main a guard , im also silver, but i dont like trapper and LB i play my “stupid” variant of simbolic

In my view traps cause frustration to novice/average players because they

- can be concentrated around the same area (serious issue for an area domination objective based game),
- are automatically activated and
- have serious adverse effects if not avoided.

The problem was a bit similar to engineer turrets in the past and the approach there was to make them utterly useless, essentially deleting them (and their accompanying elite skill) from the engineer toolset. Apparently the main thing that has saved DH traps so far from the nerf bat is that they belong to an elite spec, and therefore must remain “untouched” for the time being.

Quentijar.1274:

In my view traps cause frustration to novice/average players because they

- can be concentrated around the same area (serious issue for an area domination objective based game),
- are automatically activated and
- have serious adverse effects if not avoided.

The problem was a bit similar to engineer turrets in the past and the approach there was to make them utterly useless, essentially deleting them (and their accompanying elite skill) from the engineer toolset. Apparently the main thing that has saved DH traps so far from the nerf bat is that they belong to an elite spec, and therefore must remain “untouched” for the time being.

Sadly Turret Engineer was also a l2p issue. The Engineer was completely defenseless. As a power build, you were supposed to destroy the paper turrets and then proceed to wreck the defenseless Engi. As a condi build, you were supposed to condi bomb the completely helpless Engi directly. Sadly, condi users were trying to take out turrets and power glass cannons were running right into the fight without thinking and dying. The result, turrets became completely gutted.

Not sure what the hell people are doing in silver, bronze, and platinum, but I’m working my way up gold as a solo Necro and have no issues with Dragonhunters at all. I’ve played through many DH builds to understand how they work and what to look for, and had no easier of a time on DH than I do with most other classes. This is all whining for the sake of whining. Soon as DH gets nerfed to oblivion, all this whining will just shift to the next target.

I kinda get why OP is trying to say here. Now, personally i dont have any issues with DH. I think they are actually amongst the more balanced classes right now. Good Teamfight and 1v1 capabilites. Solid, CD-based defensives, so they can’t endlessly outstain damage just with passives.

I think the main issue why DHs are so obnoxiously strong in lower tier plays, is one the OP has mentioned many times in previous posts. Most of their pressure comes from static, on-point skills. It is a complete mystery to me, but people on lower ranks NEVER EVER leave points or even kite properly with LoS and whatnot for that matter.

No matter how much the node gets SPAMMED with aoe, all participating players relentlessly try to stay on point, rather tanking a bazillion damage than to give the enemy team that 2-3 ticks, even if that wouldn’t let them fullcap it.

BikeIsGone.8675:

I kinda get why OP is trying to say here. Now, personally i dont have any issues with DH. I think they are actually amongst the more balanced classes right now. Good Teamfight and 1v1 capabilites. Solid, CD-based defensives, so they can’t endlessly outstain damage just with passives.

I think the main issue why DHs are so obnoxiously strong in lower tier plays, is one the OP has mentioned many times in previous posts. Most of their pressure comes from static, on-point skills. It is a complete mystery to me, but people on lower ranks NEVER EVER leave points or even kite properly with LoS and whatnot for that matter.

No matter how much the node gets SPAMMED with aoe, all participating players relentlessly try to stay on point, rather tanking a bazillion damage than to give the enemy team that 2-3 ticks, even if that wouldn’t let them fullcap it.

True, but that is an issue with the players themselves and doesn’t justify nerfing a class.

Shaogin.2679:

True, but that is an issue with the players themselves and doesn’t justify nerfing a class.

my point exactly

Dont stay on point? Doesnt DH have ranged weapons just for that reason? Their not weak hitting weapons either.

iKeostuKen.2738:

Dont stay on point? Doesnt DH have ranged weapons just for that reason? Their not weak hitting weapons either.

Do you not have ranged weapons, reflects, blocks, los, ways to trigger traps safely? I get that requires you to think a little, but I’m sure if you actually tried you could figure it out.

iKeostuKen.2738:

Dont stay on point? Doesnt DH have ranged weapons just for that reason? Their not weak hitting weapons either.

I didn’t say “don’t fight on point” but “Kite offpoint to avoid unnecessary damage”. Node-control is a very import aspect of this game mode….and node-control ALSO means kiting offpoint if necessary.

Sure, you can tank that Lightning Overload, Thunderclap, Acid Bomb, various traps, Chaos Storm and possibly even some necro-wells and keep the point capped/decapped. But after those glorious 3 seconds (which is the amount of time you will last while tanking all of this) of milking some juicy extra points, you will die, be on respawn, have to get to that point again and THEN can start contesting it again…. while your team has to fight an outnumbered fight.

BikeIsGone.8675:

I kinda get why OP is trying to say here. Now, personally i dont have any issues with DH. I think they are actually amongst the more balanced classes right now. Good Teamfight and 1v1 capabilites. Solid, CD-based defensives, so they can’t endlessly outstain damage just with passives.

I think the main issue why DHs are so obnoxiously strong in lower tier plays, is one the OP has mentioned many times in previous posts. Most of their pressure comes from static, on-point skills. It is a complete mystery to me, but people on lower ranks NEVER EVER leave points or even kite properly with LoS and whatnot for that matter.

No matter how much the node gets SPAMMED with aoe, all participating players relentlessly try to stay on point, rather tanking a bazillion damage than to give the enemy team that 2-3 ticks, even if that wouldn’t let them fullcap it.

exactly how is it my fault if people dont get how to avoid traps
its a l2p issue from my side if my team cant dodge
also its not an ideal way to welcome new players with a nuclear bomb in the face
things need to be toned down not just for dragon hunters but from my point of view they are the most obvious culprit

BikeIsGone.8675:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Dont stay on point? Doesnt DH have ranged weapons just for that reason? Their not weak hitting weapons either.

I didn’t say “don’t fight on point” but “Kite offpoint to avoid unnecessary damage”. Node-control is a very import aspect of this game mode….and node-control ALSO means kiting offpoint if necessary.

Sure, you can tank that Lightning Overload, Thunderclap, Acid Bomb, various traps, Chaos Storm and possibly even some necro-wells and keep the point capped/decapped. But after those glorious 3 seconds (which is the amount of time you will last while tanking all of this) of milking some juicy extra points, you will die, be on respawn, have to get to that point again and THEN can start contesting it again…. while your team has to fight an outnumbered fight.

But in order to kite someone, theyd have to be willing to chase you, and not be able to hit. Otherwise your making it easier for the guardian to safely snipe you down from range. Going back in isnt wise since the traps dont unspawn and constantly going off cooldown for the guardian. Honestly they already have the point on lock down if they can set up unless you run in with invulns.

That second paragraph made me laugh xD +1

iKeostuKen.2738:

BikeIsGone.8675:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Dont stay on point? Doesnt DH have ranged weapons just for that reason? Their not weak hitting weapons either.

I didn’t say “don’t fight on point” but “Kite offpoint to avoid unnecessary damage”. Node-control is a very import aspect of this game mode….and node-control ALSO means kiting offpoint if necessary.

Sure, you can tank that Lightning Overload, Thunderclap, Acid Bomb, various traps, Chaos Storm and possibly even some necro-wells and keep the point capped/decapped. But after those glorious 3 seconds (which is the amount of time you will last while tanking all of this) of milking some juicy extra points, you will die, be on respawn, have to get to that point again and THEN can start contesting it again…. while your team has to fight an outnumbered fight.

But in order to kite someone, theyd have to be willing to chase you, and not be able to hit. Otherwise your making it easier for the guardian to safely snipe you down from range. Going back in isnt wise since the traps dont unspawn and constantly going off cooldown for the guardian. Honestly they already have the point on lock down if they can set up unless you run in with invulns.

That second paragraph made me laugh xD +1

On my Necro I use “Rise” to set off the traps, on my Ranger I send in my pet, on my Engineer I block or invuln and then run right through. What class do you play? Pretty sure I can help you figure this out.

Shaogin.2679:

Quentijar.1274:

In my view traps cause frustration to novice/average players because they

- can be concentrated around the same area (serious issue for an area domination objective based game),
- are automatically activated and
- have serious adverse effects if not avoided.

The problem was a bit similar to engineer turrets in the past and the approach there was to make them utterly useless, essentially deleting them (and their accompanying elite skill) from the engineer toolset. Apparently the main thing that has saved DH traps so far from the nerf bat is that they belong to an elite spec, and therefore must remain “untouched” for the time being.

Sadly Turret Engineer was also a l2p issue. The Engineer was completely defenseless. As a power build, you were supposed to destroy the paper turrets and then proceed to wreck the defenseless Engi. As a condi build, you were supposed to condi bomb the completely helpless Engi directly. Sadly, condi users were trying to take out turrets and power glass cannons were running right into the fight without thinking and dying. The result, turrets became completely gutted.

Not sure what the hell people are doing in silver, bronze, and platinum, but I’m working my way up gold as a solo Necro and have no issues with Dragonhunters at all. I’ve played through many DH builds to understand how they work and what to look for, and had no easier of a time on DH than I do with most other classes. This is all whining for the sake of whining. Soon as DH gets nerfed to oblivion, all this whining will just shift to the next target.

also the same, a “secured point” and a range weapon with knockbak

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

Quentijar.1274:

In my view traps cause frustration to novice/average players because they

- can be concentrated around the same area (serious issue for an area domination objective based game),
- are automatically activated and
- have serious adverse effects if not avoided.

The problem was a bit similar to engineer turrets in the past and the approach there was to make them utterly useless, essentially deleting them (and their accompanying elite skill) from the engineer toolset. Apparently the main thing that has saved DH traps so far from the nerf bat is that they belong to an elite spec, and therefore must remain “untouched” for the time being.

Sadly Turret Engineer was also a l2p issue. The Engineer was completely defenseless. As a power build, you were supposed to destroy the paper turrets and then proceed to wreck the defenseless Engi. As a condi build, you were supposed to condi bomb the completely helpless Engi directly. Sadly, condi users were trying to take out turrets and power glass cannons were running right into the fight without thinking and dying. The result, turrets became completely gutted.

Not sure what the hell people are doing in silver, bronze, and platinum, but I’m working my way up gold as a solo Necro and have no issues with Dragonhunters at all. I’ve played through many DH builds to understand how they work and what to look for, and had no easier of a time on DH than I do with most other classes. This is all whining for the sake of whining. Soon as DH gets nerfed to oblivion, all this whining will just shift to the next target.

also the same, a “secured point” and a range weapon with knockbak

Yeah, seems to be enough to take out any clueless noob. However, we shouldn’t balance around clueless noobs.

Shaogin.2679:

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

Quentijar.1274:

In my view traps cause frustration to novice/average players because they

- can be concentrated around the same area (serious issue for an area domination objective based game),
- are automatically activated and
- have serious adverse effects if not avoided.

The problem was a bit similar to engineer turrets in the past and the approach there was to make them utterly useless, essentially deleting them (and their accompanying elite skill) from the engineer toolset. Apparently the main thing that has saved DH traps so far from the nerf bat is that they belong to an elite spec, and therefore must remain “untouched” for the time being.

Sadly Turret Engineer was also a l2p issue. The Engineer was completely defenseless. As a power build, you were supposed to destroy the paper turrets and then proceed to wreck the defenseless Engi. As a condi build, you were supposed to condi bomb the completely helpless Engi directly. Sadly, condi users were trying to take out turrets and power glass cannons were running right into the fight without thinking and dying. The result, turrets became completely gutted.

Not sure what the hell people are doing in silver, bronze, and platinum, but I’m working my way up gold as a solo Necro and have no issues with Dragonhunters at all. I’ve played through many DH builds to understand how they work and what to look for, and had no easier of a time on DH than I do with most other classes. This is all whining for the sake of whining. Soon as DH gets nerfed to oblivion, all this whining will just shift to the next target.

also the same, a “secured point” and a range weapon with knockbak

Yeah, seems to be enough to take out any clueless noob. However, we shouldn’t balance around clueless noobs.

but this is the big problem giving a point bunkering spec a ranged weapon(long ranged) to not have to go chase enemys out of “safezone” or be “defensles” to ranged enemis

Shaogin.2679:

iKeostuKen.2738:

BikeIsGone.8675:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Dont stay on point? Doesnt DH have ranged weapons just for that reason? Their not weak hitting weapons either.

I didn’t say “don’t fight on point” but “Kite offpoint to avoid unnecessary damage”. Node-control is a very import aspect of this game mode….and node-control ALSO means kiting offpoint if necessary.

Sure, you can tank that Lightning Overload, Thunderclap, Acid Bomb, various traps, Chaos Storm and possibly even some necro-wells and keep the point capped/decapped. But after those glorious 3 seconds (which is the amount of time you will last while tanking all of this) of milking some juicy extra points, you will die, be on respawn, have to get to that point again and THEN can start contesting it again…. while your team has to fight an outnumbered fight.

But in order to kite someone, theyd have to be willing to chase you, and not be able to hit. Otherwise your making it easier for the guardian to safely snipe you down from range. Going back in isnt wise since the traps dont unspawn and constantly going off cooldown for the guardian. Honestly they already have the point on lock down if they can set up unless you run in with invulns.

That second paragraph made me laugh xD +1

On my Necro I use “Rise” to set off the traps, on my Ranger I send in my pet, on my Engineer I block or invuln and then run right through. What class do you play? Pretty sure I can help you figure this out.

Staff Ele atm. The problem with just running through is that their traps may be off cooldown if they were already set up so its sort of blowing a potential invuln.

Saiyan.1704:

I chuckle when I see a full trap medi guard get blown up, lasting only 5 seconds on point in a 1v2.

Yeah, that happens when there aren’t any CDs. That literally happens to every profession. But with CDs, Dragonhunters become godly killing machines. It’s all about those CDs. That’s their weakness. If you can somehow survive through 12 seconds of blocks and invuln and then the evades, leaps, skill-less CCs, a Dragonhunter will melt, and higher end players are better at surviving the offence long enough.

A similar things happens against mesmers. They have powerful CDs and skills that reset those powerful CDs, but once on their own, much more skill is required to survive and deal damage. After the longer CDs are up, they only have Phase Retreat and evades to survive. Clone generation slows down too without shatters.

Warriors, necros, eles and other professions don’t rely on long CDs to do well, so they do much better at higher end play. The only reason mesmer keeps getting played is because of portal, Moa and incredible mobility with Phase Retreat.

iKeostuKen.2738:

Shaogin.2679:

iKeostuKen.2738:

BikeIsGone.8675:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Dont stay on point? Doesnt DH have ranged weapons just for that reason? Their not weak hitting weapons either.

I didn’t say “don’t fight on point” but “Kite offpoint to avoid unnecessary damage”. Node-control is a very import aspect of this game mode….and node-control ALSO means kiting offpoint if necessary.

Sure, you can tank that Lightning Overload, Thunderclap, Acid Bomb, various traps, Chaos Storm and possibly even some necro-wells and keep the point capped/decapped. But after those glorious 3 seconds (which is the amount of time you will last while tanking all of this) of milking some juicy extra points, you will die, be on respawn, have to get to that point again and THEN can start contesting it again…. while your team has to fight an outnumbered fight.

But in order to kite someone, theyd have to be willing to chase you, and not be able to hit. Otherwise your making it easier for the guardian to safely snipe you down from range. Going back in isnt wise since the traps dont unspawn and constantly going off cooldown for the guardian. Honestly they already have the point on lock down if they can set up unless you run in with invulns.

That second paragraph made me laugh xD +1

On my Necro I use “Rise” to set off the traps, on my Ranger I send in my pet, on my Engineer I block or invuln and then run right through. What class do you play? Pretty sure I can help you figure this out.

Staff Ele atm. The problem with just running through is that their traps may be off cooldown if they were already set up so its sort of blowing a potential invuln.

Nevermind, you’re playing staff Ele in PvP. This explains alot. Not sure anyone can help you.

As far as him laying new traps though, that isn’t a problem. You saw him lay them. You know exactly where they are, simple dodge roll through you just made him waste more traps.

The biggest give away for Anet to realize something is wrong with DH in pvp is the fact that just about every single game contains two DH on each team.

No other class/spec has that much up time.

Something is not right.

Shaogin.2679:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Shaogin.2679:

iKeostuKen.2738:

BikeIsGone.8675:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Dont stay on point? Doesnt DH have ranged weapons just for that reason? Their not weak hitting weapons either.

I didn’t say “don’t fight on point” but “Kite offpoint to avoid unnecessary damage”. Node-control is a very import aspect of this game mode….and node-control ALSO means kiting offpoint if necessary.

Sure, you can tank that Lightning Overload, Thunderclap, Acid Bomb, various traps, Chaos Storm and possibly even some necro-wells and keep the point capped/decapped. But after those glorious 3 seconds (which is the amount of time you will last while tanking all of this) of milking some juicy extra points, you will die, be on respawn, have to get to that point again and THEN can start contesting it again…. while your team has to fight an outnumbered fight.

But in order to kite someone, theyd have to be willing to chase you, and not be able to hit. Otherwise your making it easier for the guardian to safely snipe you down from range. Going back in isnt wise since the traps dont unspawn and constantly going off cooldown for the guardian. Honestly they already have the point on lock down if they can set up unless you run in with invulns.

That second paragraph made me laugh xD +1

On my Necro I use “Rise” to set off the traps, on my Ranger I send in my pet, on my Engineer I block or invuln and then run right through. What class do you play? Pretty sure I can help you figure this out.

Staff Ele atm. The problem with just running through is that their traps may be off cooldown if they were already set up so its sort of blowing a potential invuln.

Nevermind, you’re playing staff Ele in PvP. This explains alot. Not sure anyone can help you.

As far as him laying new traps though, that isn’t a problem. You saw him lay them. You know exactly where they are, simple dodge roll through you just made him waste more traps.

You say it as if its a bad thing lol. Staff ele brings in great support. Mender/Magi having a 422k+ healing done after matches with mostly 2v3s.

Jimarius.2843:

The biggest give away for Anet to realize something is wrong with DH in pvp is the fact that just about every single game contains two DH on each team.

No other class/spec has that much up time.

Something is not right.

It happens, but I honestly see double DH at the same rate as double warrior, double necro.

As someone speaking from upper tier gold, as a thief…Full Trap DH’s are fine, if not hilarious, because they are squishy and can die pretty fast.

Dragons Maw is annoying because it’s impossible to escape it without stability…something thieves don’t have… But other then Dragon’s Maw, Full trap DH’s are an L2P at this point after all the nerfs.

However, What i do have a problem with are the MEDI-Trap guards, which have so much sustain from the constant condi-cleanse, constant healing, and constant blocks, yet able to run marauder amulets to have the capability of one-shoting you (as a thief anyway).

Now, in all honesty, i don’t have a problem killing these guards…but i am the only one on my team with enough damage capable of killing them. My teammates usually do not, and so they’ll end up 2v1-ing guards for extended periods of time, or 1v1’s that last forever until i get there. Even when i do show up to kill them, you need to wait out the blocks, the invuln, the blocks again, and blast through all the healing.

Considering how much damage they do and how long they can survive, something needs to give. This is why full trap DH seems fine to me. They do a lot of damage, but they are also squishy, so they trade safety for damage…makes perfect sense.

But when you have safety and damage? That’s kitten in my opinion…we have the same exact problem with warriors right now, being so sustain, yet running around with zerker amulets one shoting people with Arc dividers lol

Dragon Hunters aren’t in any way an issue by themself. Before the ESL scene found a ship to jump off they were barely in the meta and were shoved out of the meta for a long period of time. Dragons Hunters in solo queue how ever a far larger issue the reason being isn’t a l2p issue or an issue with their existence alone…. its class stacking. DHs become more and more problematic the more there are. They require a level of coordination to deal with 2-3 of them that often is just not in solo queue. As a condi mes main DHs are one of my hardest counter and alone I rarely have issues with them. But when mid has 3 sets of DH traps on it its very difficult for most classes to deal with that without backing off the point.
FYI DHs are pretty much the new power necro pre HOT…. They have weak escape, aoe zone lock out and high single target burst…. you deal with them more or less the same way…. call target and blow them up.
@justice you shouldn’t be required to kill them yourself you should just be the nail in the coffin. DHs melt under focus fire and even medi trap is on the squishy end, DHs have the bottom base HP tier and don’t run toughness based amulets, its pretty much a matter of push them through their virtue shield-> elite meditation->virtue shield after that they are free kills. You can kill them as a meta bunker tempest once they have lost those CDs.
Same thing applies to power warriors, their sustain is entirely CD based, they run off an overwhelming pressure system, they push on to you with CDs up and try to kill you before their CDs are gone. Once they are without them they will melt faster then your average thief.
Most classes that get called OP these days are classes with strong CDs that are more or less free kills without them.
I would advise backing up and counting CDs. It only takes one person paying attention to the CDs of high pressure classes and passing that info to your team for you to lock them out.

Still dh an issue? Even mortar engi can draw them out from a point. I honestly find dh balanced and not that much important. Certain druid builds are way easier to play than a dh. On point traps might be a problem. But most lower tier dh would trap spam while you pop up an invul or something.

Or you can kite them. They are bloody slow

iKeostuKen.2738:

Shaogin.2679:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Shaogin.2679:

iKeostuKen.2738:

BikeIsGone.8675:

iKeostuKen.2738:

Dont stay on point? Doesnt DH have ranged weapons just for that reason? Their not weak hitting weapons either.

I didn’t say “don’t fight on point” but “Kite offpoint to avoid unnecessary damage”. Node-control is a very import aspect of this game mode….and node-control ALSO means kiting offpoint if necessary.

Sure, you can tank that Lightning Overload, Thunderclap, Acid Bomb, various traps, Chaos Storm and possibly even some necro-wells and keep the point capped/decapped. But after those glorious 3 seconds (which is the amount of time you will last while tanking all of this) of milking some juicy extra points, you will die, be on respawn, have to get to that point again and THEN can start contesting it again…. while your team has to fight an outnumbered fight.

But in order to kite someone, theyd have to be willing to chase you, and not be able to hit. Otherwise your making it easier for the guardian to safely snipe you down from range. Going back in isnt wise since the traps dont unspawn and constantly going off cooldown for the guardian. Honestly they already have the point on lock down if they can set up unless you run in with invulns.

That second paragraph made me laugh xD +1

On my Necro I use “Rise” to set off the traps, on my Ranger I send in my pet, on my Engineer I block or invuln and then run right through. What class do you play? Pretty sure I can help you figure this out.

Staff Ele atm. The problem with just running through is that their traps may be off cooldown if they were already set up so its sort of blowing a potential invuln.

Nevermind, you’re playing staff Ele in PvP. This explains alot. Not sure anyone can help you.

As far as him laying new traps though, that isn’t a problem. You saw him lay them. You know exactly where they are, simple dodge roll through you just made him waste more traps.

You say it as if its a bad thing lol. Staff ele brings in great support. Mender/Magi having a 422k+ healing done after matches with mostly 2v3s.

If you’re a party support guy, then it’s clear – “Have your party Warrior push the DH off the point and smack him dead.” You’re not going to be 1v1ing anything as a Staff Ele.

DH’s issue will never resolve itself unless A-net actually tries to invest in this game competetive scene. DH is a low skill floor class which is needed for new players to get into the game, just like warrior. DH wrecks new people but at the same time the moment an average or beyond average player gets into a 1 v 1 with a DH u will completely see how helpless the player is as well. It’s so ridiculous that the investment in the competetive scene of gw2 has been so lackluster. yes they tried. And yes they made some improvements with adding a leaderboard and league system but it doesn’t stop there. U need tournaments with different skill brackets. Not only semi pro league and pro league, U need tutorials, small description of the current meta builds with it’s pros and cons. practice against bots. Because people don’t get to learn kitten from the game itself they have to look for it elsewhere or with guilds, or from streamers who more often then not are already far beyond average and thus discuss more complex tactics and strategies. It’s because of kitten like this. People in silver division are still learning the bare basics and at low gold seem to have rough understanding. I’m aware gold is like division with large difference in it. But wouldn’t it be awsome if people at silver division already knew the bare basics? and wouldn’t go 4 on 1? or double cap? Wouldn’t it be awsome if the new player knew how to deal with DH at it’s basics or atleast knew not to stand in traps? wouldn it be awsome if u atleast had some basic understanding of the game the moment u started with leagues? It doesn’t have to be perfect but gokitten , that would be awsome.

But as I said before a new sheep gets thrown in the lions den in a powercreeped meta where kitten like toughness and vitality have a severely decreased importance in migitating damage but instead it’s dependent passives for the most and the push of certain key skills. Which means that major slip ups done by a new player espically if focused down can get u killed. Because these numbers in the middle of your screen will dwindle in an instant. It’s insane that this is still an issue. Just look at how a new player would look at stats. they try out new amulets and runes on different classes and they will see that the high end of armour is around 3000. they will think: Wow so 3k armour huh? that’s pretty neat. they will come to realise that 22 k hp and more is a pretty large healthpool. only to realize that these numbers on thier own mean jackshit even if used together. Because all these damage multipliers, might and crits is completley unknown to them, when they still get picked apart by thief or Dragonsmaw, procession of blades combo,u actually need kitten like protection. But they don’t know that yet.

DH is a started class that powered up with the powercreep and thus. U cannot have the community do all of the work in building an competetive playerbase.

I’m entirely sure that if more knowledge was thrown around from a-net itself espically when focusing on starter classes like warrior and guardian. the overbearing presence of DH will decrease drastically.

Otherwise u will keep having that divide of new players calling dh op and even some average players calling DH trash. It’s litterally an perspective issue were both points are valid.

DH is extremely punishing. the least u can do is prepare players for what is to come.

would like to offer Shaogin a fist bump and a +1

DH is very very outplayable. use brain and believe, u can do it. it’s just clever use of unblockable skills and cc, plus being able to sustain on your build (this is HoT powercreep, so sustain is ezz).

@Xanctus I completely agree.
Although many players coughed at the idea of ESL and even where thankful once Anet didn’t support it any more (which is very very petty imo), a pro scene is very much needed for any competitive mode.
I can’t even say how much it helped me to improve my own gameplay, just by watching tournaments and pro-streams (like sind, phantaram, hellseth, nos and so on). sPvP and especially Conquest have so much more depth to it, than just randomly bashing players, that it would take an incredible amount of time for a complete beginner to learn everything about it by themselves. People should be thankful that there are high-skilled players showcasing their gameplay, rather then blaming them for destroying the gamemode (which is a ridiculous argument on its own).

Regarding the power creep….Anet appears to already have seen that as well. Let me remind you, that we are very close to another balance patch and Anet has announced some down-tuning for passive/proc based sustain and damage (mainly for sigils). I am really looking forward to what they have in store for us and hope that it actually contributes to a more pro-active gameplay.

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

Quentijar.1274:

In my view traps cause frustration to novice/average players because they

- can be concentrated around the same area (serious issue for an area domination objective based game),
- are automatically activated and
- have serious adverse effects if not avoided.

The problem was a bit similar to engineer turrets in the past and the approach there was to make them utterly useless, essentially deleting them (and their accompanying elite skill) from the engineer toolset. Apparently the main thing that has saved DH traps so far from the nerf bat is that they belong to an elite spec, and therefore must remain “untouched” for the time being.

Sadly Turret Engineer was also a l2p issue. The Engineer was completely defenseless. As a power build, you were supposed to destroy the paper turrets and then proceed to wreck the defenseless Engi. As a condi build, you were supposed to condi bomb the completely helpless Engi directly. Sadly, condi users were trying to take out turrets and power glass cannons were running right into the fight without thinking and dying. The result, turrets became completely gutted.

Not sure what the hell people are doing in silver, bronze, and platinum, but I’m working my way up gold as a solo Necro and have no issues with Dragonhunters at all. I’ve played through many DH builds to understand how they work and what to look for, and had no easier of a time on DH than I do with most other classes. This is all whining for the sake of whining. Soon as DH gets nerfed to oblivion, all this whining will just shift to the next target.

also the same, a “secured point” and a range weapon with knockbak

Yeah, seems to be enough to take out any clueless noob. However, we shouldn’t balance around clueless noobs.

but this is the big problem giving a point bunkering spec a ranged weapon(long ranged) to not have to go chase enemys out of “safezone” or be “defensles” to ranged enemis

Dh’s a “bunkering spec”? I lold. This is probably the one class in this meta that is the squishiest outside of thief / necro.

This thread is still going?

The reason they wont nerf DH is because above LOL tier its only viable in bulk or in the hands of someone who can position correctly.

And no its not a low skill cap class its a low skill floor class. Anyone can pick it up and kill stuff but there are very few people who can play it at a level that a half decent player cant casually walk over and melt them.

They are also countered by more then any class I can think of. they are pretty much the bastion of GW2 melts noobs but any half decent play can hop on genji and remove them.
Rev can 1v1 them with ease, Tempest, druid, necro Scrapper and power war all mewlt them

It always amazes me how people are ready to dismiss balance issues with a simple L2P statement. Balance does not exists on a singular skill level but is a far more complex term. Otherwise we come to a situation where anything below MLG level is irrelevant (and not just “below my own level”). This a computer game. Aimed at both casual gamers and people who play it 10 hours per day all year long. It is played by people of various skill levels and it should be a goal for a designer to balance it as best as possible for all skill ranges.

If there is a class that clearly dominates lower brackets it is NOT fine from a balance standpoint. L2P is only valid to a certain extent. Every gamer has his own skill cap. Some people won’t be out from gold or silver even if they spend 5000 hours playing PvP. It is not their error that they can’t go beyond that. It is just their natural skill ceiling, from whatever reason. Those players should also be considered when trying to balance the entire game.

I understand that it is hard to balance GW2 for several skill levels. Perhaps even impossible. But that should not be preventing people from going out with certain concerns. Concerns which are valid no matter if we talk about top 100 or a bronze rating. If a certain class gives MUCH better results when placed in a map filled with people of low skill level, this is NOT a sign of good balance.

This game shouldn’t focus on ESL, because it failed in that category. And sorry, but DH is strong enough that you have at least 30% DH per game.
So, why is this? Because it’s kittening easy to secure a base with a guardian. You place your traps and have a safe play vs. many melee classes. Based on the experience in any pvp game and on the fact that people mostly queue solo the class has a big advantage – just because it promotes bad gameplay – sitting there and waiting while having 1200 yard range with good damage.
Yes, you may die, but to die your opponents have to coordinate and that often fails even on gold rank.

You don’t have to coordinate anything as DH. You place your traps and auto-attack with your longbow That’s terrible balancing.

If you sit on a point with your traps camping longbow when nobody is there then the other 2 points should be lost since it’s 5v4 while you afk there.

If people are too bad to take advantage of this, it isn’t a DH issue but a player issue.

As for traps, most metabuilds only run test of faith and maybe trap heal. ToF is fine if you realize it only hurts if you run in and out of it and the other traps are not worth mentioning (actually L2P issue if you die to blade of proc/dragon maw).

If you’re gonna complain about “OP”, symbolic DH is way worse than longbow DH tbh.

That’s not how pvp in this game works. That’s the same idiotic problem we had some seasons ago with real bunker builds. “Just don’t go there” doesn’t help in a game where a point that constantly generates points for a team isn’t a viable option.
It could be in a real 5v5 with 5 people on both sides in an organised team with voice chat.
But GW2 never had this kind of pvp, so a build like this favors stupid behaviour like “sitting on a point and bunkering”. If a team has more than one DH which happened this season on a regular basis you may have two bases like this.

shagwell.1349:

That’s not how pvp in this game works. That’s the same idiotic problem we had some seasons ago with real bunker builds. “Just don’t go there” doesn’t help in a game where a point that constantly generates points for a team isn’t a viable option.
It could be in a real 5v5 with 5 people on both sides in an organised team with voice chat.
But GW2 never had this kind of pvp, so a build like this favors stupid behaviour like “sitting on a point and bunkering”. If a team has more than one DH which happened this season on a regular basis you may have two bases like this.

Revs beats guards. Condi wars beats guards. High-Deathshroud necro beats guard (or atleast forces a decap). Druid beats guards. Scrapper beats guard. Any form of +1 beats guard.
Literally everything but Mesmer, power warrior and thief beats guard.

If bunkering was so OP every ESL team would run 5 bunker but obviously that never happens outside of the trololol d/d ele era.

Also what Loop said, there are plenty of DH counters. Even thief can counter DH by constantly +1-ing the DH and good power warriors can ruin DH too since the DPS > DH sustain even if they aren’t hard counters.

If you wanna complain about sitting on a point bunkering, longbow DH is not it lmao. Maybe you wanna complain about paladin symbolic DH or druid but not longbow DH. You’re literally complaining about traps doing too much damage then saying DH is bunking the node with a ‘real bunker build’ which just doesn’t happen sorry.

Go try and play the marauder meta medi trapper longbow see how long you last sitting on a node bunkering against anyone who has their dodge key binded.

Loop.8106:

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

Quentijar.1274:

In my view traps cause frustration to novice/average players because they

- can be concentrated around the same area (serious issue for an area domination objective based game),
- are automatically activated and
- have serious adverse effects if not avoided.

The problem was a bit similar to engineer turrets in the past and the approach there was to make them utterly useless, essentially deleting them (and their accompanying elite skill) from the engineer toolset. Apparently the main thing that has saved DH traps so far from the nerf bat is that they belong to an elite spec, and therefore must remain “untouched” for the time being.

Sadly Turret Engineer was also a l2p issue. The Engineer was completely defenseless. As a power build, you were supposed to destroy the paper turrets and then proceed to wreck the defenseless Engi. As a condi build, you were supposed to condi bomb the completely helpless Engi directly. Sadly, condi users were trying to take out turrets and power glass cannons were running right into the fight without thinking and dying. The result, turrets became completely gutted.

Not sure what the hell people are doing in silver, bronze, and platinum, but I’m working my way up gold as a solo Necro and have no issues with Dragonhunters at all. I’ve played through many DH builds to understand how they work and what to look for, and had no easier of a time on DH than I do with most other classes. This is all whining for the sake of whining. Soon as DH gets nerfed to oblivion, all this whining will just shift to the next target.

also the same, a “secured point” and a range weapon with knockbak

Yeah, seems to be enough to take out any clueless noob. However, we shouldn’t balance around clueless noobs.

but this is the big problem giving a point bunkering spec a ranged weapon(long ranged) to not have to go chase enemys out of “safezone” or be “defensles” to ranged enemis

Dh’s a “bunkering spec”? I lold. This is probably the one class in this meta that is the squishiest outside of thief / necro.

point bunkering spec =/= of bunkering spec
bunker spec= build that via sustaint, thougnes or any other damage avoidance mechanic can soak a lot of damage
point bunkering spec= build that have a lot of area interdiction skills that make hard to stay in capture point

Good discussion – I just want to point out that “+1’ing” is not a counter – that’s good tactics, but not a counter. Countering is specifically talking about beating out in a 1v1, or at least chasing them off point and decapping/capping the point.

I’ve certainly killed DH’s as thief in 1v1- though every time I do it I assume it’s because they were really bad DHs. The fights are just normally too prolonged to be worth it, or I’m squished quickly. If I see a DH camping a point without a teammate around, I get back over to the other two points, because I should be +1’ing the fights there.

Is he countered if I run up and immediately run away? The only winning move is not to play? Maybe… Maybe.

megilandil.7506:

Loop.8106:

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

Quentijar.1274:

In my view traps cause frustration to novice/average players because they

- can be concentrated around the same area (serious issue for an area domination objective based game),
- are automatically activated and
- have serious adverse effects if not avoided.

The problem was a bit similar to engineer turrets in the past and the approach there was to make them utterly useless, essentially deleting them (and their accompanying elite skill) from the engineer toolset. Apparently the main thing that has saved DH traps so far from the nerf bat is that they belong to an elite spec, and therefore must remain “untouched” for the time being.

Sadly Turret Engineer was also a l2p issue. The Engineer was completely defenseless. As a power build, you were supposed to destroy the paper turrets and then proceed to wreck the defenseless Engi. As a condi build, you were supposed to condi bomb the completely helpless Engi directly. Sadly, condi users were trying to take out turrets and power glass cannons were running right into the fight without thinking and dying. The result, turrets became completely gutted.

Not sure what the hell people are doing in silver, bronze, and platinum, but I’m working my way up gold as a solo Necro and have no issues with Dragonhunters at all. I’ve played through many DH builds to understand how they work and what to look for, and had no easier of a time on DH than I do with most other classes. This is all whining for the sake of whining. Soon as DH gets nerfed to oblivion, all this whining will just shift to the next target.

also the same, a “secured point” and a range weapon with knockbak

Yeah, seems to be enough to take out any clueless noob. However, we shouldn’t balance around clueless noobs.

but this is the big problem giving a point bunkering spec a ranged weapon(long ranged) to not have to go chase enemys out of “safezone” or be “defensles” to ranged enemis

Dh’s a “bunkering spec”? I lold. This is probably the one class in this meta that is the squishiest outside of thief / necro.

point bunkering spec =/= of bunkering spec
bunker spec= build that via sustaint, thougnes or any other damage avoidance mechanic can soak a lot of damage
point bunkering spec= build that have a lot of area interdiction skills that make hard to stay in capture point

…that is more like point control trough area denial than point bunkering, wich could be translated as holding point with bunker speck.

The class that denies area for its targets, DH’s tend to be a slowpoke moving classes they do area denial and control.

The class that does point bunkering as in a class that fight/hold targets on point until he gets backup.

cyn.2157:

Good discussion – I just want to point out that “+1’ing” is not a counter – that’s good tactics, but not a counter. Countering is specifically talking about beating out in a 1v1, or at least chasing them off point and decapping/capping the point.

I’ve certainly killed DH’s as thief in 1v1- though every time I do it I assume it’s because they were really bad DHs. The fights are just normally too prolonged to be worth it, or I’m squished quickly. If I see a DH camping a point without a teammate around, I get back over to the other two points, because I should be +1’ing the fights there.

Is he countered if I run up and immediately run away? The only winning move is not to play? Maybe… Maybe.

I want to disagree with this since the counter to necro since pre HOT days was focus fire I would argue +1ing as a priority is a viable means of being a true counter. But Im just splitting hairs I guess.

To balance this class out → Remove all the passiv trap crap. This class is a braindead faceroll.

DHs wouldn’t be much of an issue if class stacking didn’t exist.

I’m not sure if high sustain to the level of druid and similar builds, is enough of a counter to be considered balanced. When you take into account the role, and how DH rotates it seems a bit to strong vs what it would push off point, or even chase down and kill.

This is not an issue in high end pvp because it’s actively played around and covered, but frankly creating a status quo where half the things people want to play are not supposed to engage, on such a short roaster, is why pvp balance sucks and is so exclusionary.

Spear of justice change made it a bit more fair for 1v1s but I don’t think it’s enough when you consider the meta of conquest.

So background information and context: If only HoT classes are viable across the board, I think we need to balance around them being in every build primarily. Even if core has to take a hit in PvP. (honestly elite specs just need to be made f2p at least in pvp at this point. I would also argue that elite specs should change the functionality of some core skills; possibly even nerfing them. But that’s a topic for another time.)

With that in mind I think the biggest issue still remaining is DH’s ability to chase. If you add more play there, it can still push roamers off point if need be, but with no added pressure of being shut down. It would also mean it suffers a bit more against the vertical axis, giving a little bit more leeway to what DH counters, thus evening the matchup.

With this in mind I suggest a change in how “Judges Intervention” functions. Either by giving it a cast time with an animation. Or changing the functionality to something like a stun projectile with a travel time, followed by a port.

“Symbol of Blades” could be changed to a standard leap, or given a cast time like the above, or have the symbol be a chained second part to the skill needing to be actively cast, with the blind being moved to the first pulse of the symbol that you actively need to drop.

Cynz.9437:

DHs wouldn’t be much of an issue if class stacking didn’t exist.

Yes ture!
But in my eyes it is mostly the passiv crap. GW 2 has a active battle mechanic and so much passives which needs 0 Skill would fit into WoW but not here. Clear a Pro player who mastered his main would wreck all DH’s because most of them are bad. But there is no equal effort anymore. This class is a noobtrain.