Guild Wars 2

Now before all “you” guys get here, Im not saying mesmers are stupid OP because theyre really not that bad. I do feel however when youve got the 12 second teleport on top of whichever stun breakers youre running, the avoidance skill cycle recharges faster than most melee classes abilities to hold you.

I aint crying, mesmers are alright. They just have too many ways to avoid stuns. Blink is fine the way it is, leap shouldnt work as a stun breaker (for melee) though. Neither should any of the weapon teleports. If it doesnt break stun you shouldnt be able to use it to change your placement WHILE stunned. bottom line

Agree, if it doesnt break stun/knock downs it shouldnt be able to be used, prolly a bug.

hharry.1967:

Agree, if it doesnt break stun/knock downs it shouldnt be able to be used, prolly a bug.

Dont think its a bug, thieves get the same thing with their sword skill. Its just not as problematic against thieves

Vision.3541:

hharry.1967:

Agree, if it doesnt break stun/knock downs it shouldnt be able to be used, prolly a bug.

Dont think its a bug, thieves get the same thing with their sword skill. Its just not as problematic against thieves

How is that the same? Sword #2 skill is not instant (Infiltrator’s Strike is not usable under control effects), it’s a 2 step ability and the second step (Shadow Return) is a stun breaker and thus instant.

So yeah, unless you have already initiated the chain, you are not going to shadowstep anywhere while CC’ed.

There are very few weapon skills that are truly instant. Phase Retreat is one of them.

Technically spoken the only teleport that is also a stun breaker is Blink, which is a utility skill. There is one leap on the staff that enables you to teleport backwards, but does not remove the stun. The other leap is on the sword, but it requires you to have summoned a clone already (it’s a chain skill) and if you wait too long, it resets.

Blink is on a 24-30 second cd, depending on traits. The staff and sword leaps are on shorter cooldowns.

I think this staff leap you find so problematic is the main mechanic ( and winds of chaos, the AoE) that makes staff such a viable weapon, because it enables you to avoid damage. And that’s what mesmers are all about: avoiding damage by creating illusion.

You could argue that this is not the way mesmers should be playing. In my opinion, it is though. The mesmer wears light armour, which makes it very vulnerable in close combat. That’s why it has blurred frenzy, the leaps, and most mesmers also use at least 1-2 stun breakers as utilities (usually blink, mirror images, decoy). This is a must in the high damage, glass cannon builds most mesmers are currently running because they simply are the best (and only viable mesmer tPvP builds btw).

Just to say that the reason mesmers have these utilities is because the other weapons/utilities don’t match up to the stun breakers in high damage builds.
So you either:
- nerf damage evasion for mesmers (their main mechanic)
- nerf damage output for mesmers so they start playing more defensive builds
- do both of the above slightly (longer cd on staff leap e.g.) and buff the other mesmer weapons (torch, scepter) to make condition/all-round builds equally viable.
- L2play and use high aoe without stuns to seriously pwn mesmers. (which is also why good necros and eles can easily beat mesmers, unlike bad warriors who start off with hundred blades which is so predictable you don’t even have to use a leap but just dodge to avoid it)

Ashumet.8674:

Technically spoken the only teleport that is also a stun breaker is Blink, which is a utility skill. There is one leap on the staff that enables you to teleport backwards, but does not remove the stun. The other leap is on the sword, but it requires you to have summoned a clone already (it’s a chain skill) and if you wait too long, it resets.

Blink is on a 24-30 second cd, depending on traits. The staff and sword leaps are on shorter cooldowns.

I think this staff leap you find so problematic is the main mechanic ( and winds of chaos, the AoE) that makes staff such a viable weapon, because it enables you to avoid damage. And that’s what mesmers are all about: avoiding damage by creating illusion.

You could argue that this is not the way mesmers should be playing. In my opinion, it is though. The mesmer wears light armour, which makes it very vulnerable in close combat. That’s why it has blurred frenzy, the leaps, and most mesmers also use at least 1-2 stun breakers as utilities (usually blink, mirror images, decoy). This is a must in the high damage, glass cannon builds most mesmers are currently running because they simply are the best (and only viable mesmer tPvP builds btw).

Just to say that the reason mesmers have these utilities is because the other weapons/utilities don’t match up to the stun breakers in high damage builds.
So you either:
- nerf damage evasion for mesmers (their main mechanic)
- nerf damage output for mesmers so they start playing more defensive builds
- do both of the above slightly (longer cd on staff leap e.g.) and buff the other mesmer weapons (torch, scepter) to make condition/all-round builds equally viable.
- L2play and use high aoe without stuns to seriously pwn mesmers. (which is also why good necros and eles can easily beat mesmers, unlike bad warriors who start off with hundred blades which is so predictable you don’t even have to use a leap but just dodge to avoid it)

If you wanna talk about warriors using AOE to beat a mesmer, their only real aoe skill is the bow F1, which does what like 4k damage with stacked condition damage at a full 3 charges of adrenaline? Yeah mesmers are supposed to use skills like blurred frenzy which is fine but at some point it just gets excessive. I teleport skill even if its part of a chain that is NOT a stun breaker should NOT change your placement while stunned. Having a skill like that on 12 second cooldown on top of the other damage avoidance skills is way too much, not every melee class wants to use aoe.

I agree that mesmers are supposed to avoid damage, but what you basically just said is yeah melee wont work and you need aoe, you should be able to play how you want without being limited by class imbalances, the mesmers avoidance cycles recharge faster than immobilizes and stuns do for melee classes largely because of the 12 second teleport that you can use willie nilly. Dont even try to say its fair because its part of a chain, to start the chain all you have to do is press 1 button.

All that damage avoidance is fine and fair, having a 12 second one that moves stun without breaking it, no thank you.

P.S: Nvm about the thief sword 2 move, I looked at it and it actually is a stun breaker

I am reading the topic and I am not sure whether people are discussing the same skills here, so I will clarify, I suppose:

Mesmer: Staff #2 Phase Retreat is a true instant ability that is not labelled as a stun breaker and in fact does not break stuns. Whether this is meant to be a true instant ability is everybody’s guess. In it’s current form it enables you to avoid tons of damage simply by virtue of being a true instant shadowstep

Mesmer: Sword #3 Illusionary Leap (first step of the chain) is neither instant nor does it break stuns.

Mesmer: Sword #3 Swap (second step of the chain) is a true instant and while it is not labelled as a stun breaker it actually IS one. Whether this is a bug or just a tooltip error, we do not know.

Med.6150:

I am reading the topic and I am not sure whether people are discussing the same skills here, so I will clarify, I suppose:

Mesmer: Staff #2 Phase Retreat is a true instant ability that is not labelled as a stun breaker and in fact does not break stuns. Whether this is meant to be a true instant ability is everybody’s guess. In it’s current form it enables you to avoid tons of damage simply by virtue of being a true instant shadowstep

Mesmer: Sword #3 Illusionary Leap (first step of the chain) is neither instant nor does it break stuns.

Mesmer: Sword #3 Swap (second step of the chain) is a true instant and while it is not labelled as a stun breaker it actually IS one. Whether this is a bug or just a tooltip error, we do not know.

This is exactly what im talking about, phase retreat and sword swap both fall into the category of skills that arent stun breakers but behave like them. Theres a reason break skills have large cooldowns and 12 seconds not including the actual skills is just ridiculous

The theory behind the mesmer is distraction and confusion having said that. When the sword 3 stun breaker which I suppose is fine if it isnt but DON’T even think about griping with phase retreat that is our saving grace. Now back to sword three the ability to swap it lasts for a VERY VERY short amount of time and often times because iLeap is SO buggy when the mesmer does swap the clone is behind the actual mesmer (happened to me a lot) or not even to the target… So as far as iLeap is concerned Anet has a lot of work to do with fixing the way this skill performs. If they didn’t intend it as a stun breaker then either fix that it does break stun or fix the tool tip. But also they need to fix how it behaves to begin with.

jportell.2197:

The theory behind the mesmer is distraction and confusion having said that. When the sword 3 stun breaker which I suppose is fine if it isnt but DON’T even think about griping with phase retreat that is our saving grace. Now back to sword three the ability to swap it lasts for a VERY VERY short amount of time and often times because iLeap is SO buggy when the mesmer does swap the clone is behind the actual mesmer (happened to me a lot) or not even to the target… So as far as iLeap is concerned Anet has a lot of work to do with fixing the way this skill performs. If they didn’t intend it as a stun breaker then either fix that it does break stun or fix the tool tip. But also they need to fix how it behaves to begin with.

Keep phase retreat exactly how it is, but it shouldnt be usable during stun, daze, or knockdown. Thats what stun breakers are designed to counter and phase retreat is not a breaker, but it might as well be the way it works

It doesn’t break the stun but it is useful for when you are trapped inside a crystal in a dungeon (things of that effect are terrible) and few other skills are able to do that. Even after you do the retreat you are still stunned and not attacking for the duration of the stun… I think that because it is an instant cast and the way Anet designed instant cast abilities they work during stun even if they don’t break stun… So I don’t feel it is a class specific thing but any class that has instant cast abilities.

if it’s not a stun break, it shoudn’t be doing anything while stunned. I’d argue that it should’ve move them when immobilized either. If they happen to get caught with it and don’t have stun breaks or cleanse available, that’s their bad. Play better. Every other class has to.

Except some Immobs such as binding roots depend on destroying what traps you. Not arguing that there needs to be some tweaking but I think that since its instant cast which many other classes have it is able to be used while stunned… I think this is an oversight.

jportell.2197:

It doesn’t break the stun but it is useful for when you are trapped inside a crystal in a dungeon (things of that effect are terrible) and few other skills are able to do that. Even after you do the retreat you are still stunned and not attacking for the duration of the stun… I think that because it is an instant cast and the way Anet designed instant cast abilities they work during stun even if they don’t break stun… So I don’t feel it is a class specific thing but any class that has instant cast abilities.

Everyone has instant abilities, but only mesmers have instant abilities on 12 second CD that can completely ignore careful melee placement at any time with no way to prevent them from doing it.

Listen guys every class has ups and downs, if a warrior tries to frenzy 100b on you, you break the stun and hit him for 50% damage. If a necro is full emphasis on minions and you’re a thief you can use the blind circle to nerf down that incomming damage. The list goes on, but when you play a single target melee class where placement and holding is the most important thing, wheres the real counter against a class that can escape you every 12 seconds NO MATTER what state theyre in.

Everybody tells people who complain about mesmers to just play better, but when you talk about single target melee trying to catch a guy that only has to hit 1 button and poof hes gone, not including the one or two other ways he has to avoid while stunned, it just aint balanced.

TL:DR

all the damage mitigation is fine, dont even touch the numbers

Having all of it available inside of any knockdown, stun, or daze with no way to work around it whatsoever with 2 or 3 completely separate abilities that have 12 to 25 second cooldowns… not fine.

Mesmers should have to retreat to avoid getting stunned, not to move themselves after they do get stunned. The retreat and swap skills should be something that prevents getting caught, not an auto fix for when you do***************************

“blink is fine” nerf the one that takes skill?

sorry i dissagree. blink is so easy to use and illusionary leap to actually use it as a stun break which very few mesmers do actually is quite impressive i wouldnt consider taking that away from them.

Single target melee? Mmmm… Sounds like a thief! Sucks when someone does the poof he’s gone to you guys huh?

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

“blink is fine” nerf the one that takes skill?

sorry i dissagree. blink is so easy to use and illusionary leap to actually use it as a stun break which very few mesmers do actually is quite impressive i wouldnt consider taking that away from them.

Phase retreat doesnt take skill, its one button

swap takes 2 buttons, both are imbalanced

And both are key to a mesmers play style which is distraction and confusion. And we have VERY few abilities that grant mobility in combat aside from these two. Blink is instant and breaks stun. These other two are not OP as they give a squishy class some semblance of survivability.

jportell.2197:

And both are key to a mesmers play style which is distraction and confusion. And we have VERY few abilities that grant mobility in combat aside from these two. Blink is instant and breaks stun. These other two are not OP as they give a squishy class some semblance of survivability.

If you let yourself get stunned or immobilized as a mesmer, youre playing bad

The skill shouldnt fix your mistakes, you can keep it as long as its disabled during stuns.

I’m down with that. But you do not decide what we as a class can or cannot keep. And this is the first thread I have seen where ANYONE gripes about an iLeap in terms of it being too powerful or that its working better than what you think. It really is the first I’ve seen it in PVP WVW or the mesmer threads.

jportell.2197:

I’m down with that. But you do not decide what we as a class can or cannot keep. And this is the first thread I have seen where ANYONE gripes about an iLeap in terms of it being too powerful or that its working better than what you think. It really is the first I’ve seen it in PVP WVW or the mesmer threads.

lol yes it is the first IL complaint

i think ppl are just on the ban wagon this past month trying to get mesmer nerfed. i dont get it or see where they are coming from. if you are good a 1v1 battle v a mesmer will come down to who has more CD up.

like i said before if you want to nerf something on a mesmer the only thing is the staff blink should have a higher cd but truthfully i dont even think that i have seen every class beat XEE and other staff mesmers in paids so it can be done.

stop trying to take the easy way out by nerfing them if you have L2P questions msg me in game i can teach u to beat us. but stop trying to dumb down the game with posts like this.

100b can’t beat staff mesmer? QQ

Why Do you think that Staff even has “Phase retreat” , It’s not “Phase Get 100b’d to death” all it does is move you, you are still unable to move if you’re immobilized or stunned.

You’re just trying to dumb down the game so the only class that’s playable is Instagib.

Working As Intended.

Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

So you stunned the mesmer but they still have a trick up their sleeve. According to the devs. Things like phase retreat are working as intended. And Swap I believe that is also working as intended… No just thinking here when considering Visions statement
“I do feel however when youve got the 12 second teleport on top of whichever stun breakers youre running, the avoidance skill cycle recharges faster than most melee classes abilities to hold you.” What melee class are you referring to? Essentially all melee classes auto attacks hit more than one target directly in front of them and griping about our abilities to use clones and swap with them is griping about how the class is supposed to function… Kinda ridiculous if you ask me. I don’t gripe about how I get insta downed by a warrior also we don’t have other classes ability to block as often as they do so our way of dmg mitigation is things like PR and the Swap after IL but usually that swap is something we don’t see as a stun breaker but a gap closer and an Immob. And these skills have behaved this way since BWE1 which gives me the impression that they are most likely working as intended or if they are not working as intended then they either A) Wont be dealt with at all and you should just figure out when to time your stuns. or B.) are so far down the priority list that you shouldn’t hold your breath. We are an extremely fragile class and if we have CD’s just like everyone else except well thieves so if you learn to counter us and know when we have used what we have used you will be fine. But coming to the forums whining about iLeap which yes this is a whine thread I don’t care how you try to paint it is ridiculous as in it is one of smallest problems people have with mesmers if anyone else really does have this problem.

Vision.3541:

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

“blink is fine” nerf the one that takes skill?

sorry i dissagree. blink is so easy to use and illusionary leap to actually use it as a stun break which very few mesmers do actually is quite impressive i wouldnt consider taking that away from them.

Phase retreat doesnt take skill, its one button

swap takes 2 buttons, both are imbalanced

How many stun breakers take skill really? Wouldn’t it defeat the purpose of a stun breaker being just that if you had to press more than a 1 button at a time to do it? Also as far as weapons are concerned mesmers have VERY few instant abilities the only auto attack that is instant is the freaking sword one every other auto attack is channeled somewhat. Actually the only two instant weapon ablities we have are the swapping and PR both of which have to do with teleporting and clone placement. I think there is a pattern here and one that is intentional. And the short CD on these used to be shorter until they got nerfed.

People complete mess up the names, it is completely impossible to read this … might as well discuss quantum mechanics with your dog !
Med made a nice post (#2) … can we get the terminology straight so it at least makes sense .. then we can agree/disagree after.

So the only people in this thread who object are people who play mesmers?

Big surprise.

Darnis.4056:

100b can’t beat staff mesmer? QQ

Why Do you think that Staff even has “Phase retreat” , It’s not “Phase Get 100b’d to death” all it does is move you, you are still unable to move if you’re immobilized or stunned.

You’re just trying to dumb down the game so the only class that’s playable is Instagib.

Working As Intended.

Who said anything about 100b?
Lets say a thief uses his elite skill to stone you for two seconds, you move back and yeah youre still stunned but you just avoided 2 seconds worth of stunned damage with a skill that aint even a stun breaker, by the time he runs over to you youll just be able to roll out or knock back. Technically, thats a broken stun and thats what blink is for, phase retreat should be just a kite move

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

jportell.2197:

I’m down with that. But you do not decide what we as a class can or cannot keep. And this is the first thread I have seen where ANYONE gripes about an iLeap in terms of it being too powerful or that its working better than what you think. It really is the first I’ve seen it in PVP WVW or the mesmer threads.

lol yes it is the first IL complaint

i think ppl are just on the ban wagon this past month trying to get mesmer nerfed. i dont get it or see where they are coming from. if you are good a 1v1 battle v a mesmer will come down to who has more CD up.

like i said before if you want to nerf something on a mesmer the only thing is the staff blink should have a higher cd but truthfully i dont even think that i have seen every class beat XEE and other staff mesmers in paids so it can be done.

stop trying to take the easy way out by nerfing them if you have L2P questions msg me in game i can teach u to beat us. but stop trying to dumb down the game with posts like this.

Dumb down the game? Youre telling me tweaking one skill of one class is dumbing down the game?

You guys are getting really offended, like mesmers are some perfect thing that should never be touched. Every class could use some tweaking and this is how it happens

jportell.2197:

A) Wont be dealt with at all and you should just figure out when to time your stuns.

Okay lets play along with this

Lets say Im a mace CC warrior
Shield bash 30 seconds
Skull crack 3 stacks of adrenaline and 10 seconds
Bull charge 40 seconds
Gotta switch off weapons after skull crack to do damage, this adds extra 10 seconds to the cycle

And lets say you have
Retreat 12 seconds
Blink 30 seconds
distortion 60 seconds

Okay so me and you are fighting, I land the first skull crack, you phase retreat, 12 seconds CD which means only if I land another skull crack at the exact second it recharges, ill hit you 2 seconds before retreat recharges. Even if I manage to hit you perfectly 2 seconds before, you have blink. Thats another 10 seconds for me and youre retreat is up for the next time.

So heres the next skull crack, you retreat through it making me have to hold off another 10 seconds to have skull crack available, and for this one you can distort

okay you distorted, 10 seconds for me and by the next time i stun you can either retreat or blink again

I’d have to stun you two more times to get through retreat and blink, and thats if I land it exactly when the CD is over which lets be honest, its hard to do.

So lets count here, I would have to stun you perfectly every 10 seconds with no window of error 5 times over 50 seconds in a row just to get one clean shot.

So if I have to land 5 perfect skull cracks the second the recharge just to get a hit on you, and all you have to do is hit retreat once you get stunned, whos the one here really trying to use skill?

Quote this message and tell me this is fair, you’d be lying if you did

Nerf an ability that works 50% of the time? Leap has one of the worst pathing bugs in the game. I would be ok with this if they fix it first.

Another mesmer complaint thread, thought we were past this.

SteepledHat.1345:

Another mesmer complaint thread, thought we were past this.

why would we be past this? nothing has changed

You must have missed the nerf time warp threads , share portal threads, and so on. Illusionary leap is an offensive ability number one. 99.9% of mesmers wouldn’t use it as a stun breaker and I bet you the mesmer that did pressed the swap so fast he or she didn’t even notice that you stunned them. Number two most mesmers use ALOT of their stun breakers to open up a fight because we have one weapon skill per set that creates a clone and one that creates a phantasm. Kinda like thieves have you know one that stealths them? Anyways this means that chances are we opened up on you with Mirror images and Phase Retreat if we were using a staff. So that means we have a full load of clones to deliver our first CC for a daze. Unfortunately these don’t stack in duration so all 3 clones will daze you at once for one second. Now after that we have prolly dodge rolled to create two more clones thus draining our endurance swapped to a sword and used ILeap and the Swap to do a blurred frenzy Mind Wrack combo. Now here if you aren’t dead yet this is prolly the first chance we have given you to use your stuns. We just swapped weapons. So thats on cool down and used Ileap so that is also on cool down. We only have one way left to make a clone to confuse you and use as a stun breaker (if you think all mesmers work the same.) You as a warrior now have skull crack and shield bash and so on to wail on me with. And I have few options and no endurance left to dodge and one MAYBE 2 options for a stun breaker… How is it you think you are bad off again? You gotta remember mesmers aren’t gonna sit there with their thumbs up their kitten for the opening of a fight because the slower we are to do our damage to you the more time it gives you to ID us and burn us down. Now I just gave you a perfect opposite example of the perfect example you gave me. And as several others have stated here. Ileap is so buggy that it works maybe 50 percent of the time. ALSO we don’t have the evasion ability of thieves (the only weapon that helps us with evading attacks is sword #2). And we have ONE weapon option for blocking in an off hand sword. Which does not last for as long as warriors, guardians, or even engineers with an OH shield and the gear shield tool kit. So that being said I can see how they intended for us to have these stun breakers/teleport abilities because we are severely lacking in what the other classes do have.

honestly, i wanna see shatter mesmers nerfed into the ground. it’s a cheap, low skillcap, facerolling spec. i want portal and timewarp gone. hopefully mindwrack sees a 20% damage decrease on the 28th. that would be a step in the right direction.

lol @ nerva your posts are usually right on. Whats up with the shatter hate? Phantasm builds are boring and a lot less skilled imo, so i Prefer shatter or something in between. Did your ranger get killed by a shatter mez today or something? Nerfing isn’t the answer for any profession, I would think you of all people would know that.

Low skill cap? What class has an absolutely high skill cap in this game? Warriors and guardians just sit there and beat on each other without moving or thinking tactically. Thieves have stealth and the ability to spam certain attacks over and over and over, engineer takes skill for some of the kits but honestly they can just sit there and beat on people as well. Ele’s need to time attunement swaps thats essentially it plus they have the WIDEST range of weapon skills with the three conjure (weapon skills), Rangers just keep you at range and sick the pets on you (not much skill there), Necros I can’t say much on because I haven’t played them but I rarely see a necro in Death Shroud aside from moving around faster. Shatter mesmers have 4 available to them all of which depend on the number of illusions active things we have to watch for are A) Illusions health (more battle field awareness than any class) Illusions location (for things like diversion that if all 3 illusions are together and shatter then it is just the same as a 1 illusion shatter) C) what illusion summoning abilities are immediately available to us. For portal most mesmers hate being asked to switch to it because we would rather have an offensive or defensive slot available and it is on such a LONG cool down. Time warp really you people still are griping about that? It is our only quickness option while other classes have some available in their utility and very situational plus it can be countered which I am not going into here there are other threads about it. And a damage decrease in mind wrack wouldn’t be a step in the right direction how about instead of qqing about a mesmer spec you say why does everyone roll this spec why not your other options available. Then most mesmers will tell you because the other options are terrible. You should instead hope Anet brings other options up so that we look at those and say wow. I like this now because its useful. WE are still not as powerful as thieves, 100B warriors, and I have seen a couple D/D and S/D eles that have burned people down faster than any as you put it “face rolling mesmer” ever could. So get your panties out of a bunch and look globally and you will see that because of imbalance WITHIN classes certain specs and builds are just the only options available. Continually nerfing a class into the ground isn’t the answer and it never will be. The only justified nerf I can think of is the shattered strength nerf which was a bug fix as well as the0.25 sec GCD on shatters. Everything and I mean EVERYTHING that the “faceroll” mesmer spec you whine about can be dealt with by simply thinking on your feet instead of expecting the class to stand there and let you take turns beating on each other. This ain’t that type of game. Say for instance the shatter chain we have two shatters that we line up and use one get 3 more clones up and use the other. Most people that I use this on NEVER EVER dodge… Its like they forget that its an option when in PvP or WvW. You have two dodges available before endurance runs out and all shatters can be dodged but its like people just freeze because they see all these clones running at them.

jportell.2197:

Essentially all melee classes auto attacks hit more than one target directly in front of them and griping about our abilities to use clones and swap with them is griping about how the class is supposed to function… Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

Awsome , i’ll let my Necro know his Dagger is allowed to cleave now

Visionary.5681:

jportell.2197:

Essentially all melee classes auto attacks hit more than one target directly in front of them and griping about our abilities to use clones and swap with them is griping about how the class is supposed to function… Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

Awsome , i’ll let my Necro know his Dagger is allowed to cleave now

Sorry forgot about that. Theives and necros with daggers are the only ones that don’t. I honestly could care less about thieves but kitten the necros need some love!

Condition necro needs tweaking.

Power necro needs steroids. Its a sad state of play when you have all these buttons , yet you loose dps by pressing any of them. An auto attack class? Really? Ow the fun

Visionary.5681:

Condition necro needs tweaking.

Power necro needs steroids. Its a sad state of play when you have all these buttons , yet you loose dps by pressing any of them. An auto attack class? Really? Ow the fun

I really feel like that is what people want is to just forget the skills and have everyone go around pressing one. It is a sad state of affairs. Having said that I will say that as a mesmer I have an extremely hard time killing Condi necros because mesmers have limited condition removal options and your guys health is just ridiculous. But you need love in general.

jportell.2197:

Low skill cap? What class has an absolutely high skill cap in this game?

in my opinion, not that it matters, the following specs have a high skillcap in tpvp (some because it takes seriously good awareness and decision making to survive or be effective competitively): bunker ranger, power necro, bunker necro, any engie spec, any warrior spec, dps guard, staff ele

there are effective, lower skillcap builds that are balanced (because theyre true glass cannon, can be seen and focused): wellmancer, trap ranger

profs that dont have a high skillcap are the ones that allow you to drop targets constantly, or spam boons. so thieves, mesmers, d/d eles, bunker eles and bunker guards. they also happen to be dominating the meta. not only are they easy to learn, but theyre also the most effective.

bunker necros, engies, and rangers are really fun to play, and to play against. theyre fun to play because they take a lot longer to learn than your typical facerolling guard or ele, and they can actually be countered. engies have a more limited sustain compared to the rest, while ranger and necro lack stability and can be crushed by a well placed immoblize and daze/stun. this cannot be said for stability/boon spamming ele and guard.

anyway, my beef with mesmers? it’s obvious, and non-deluded top tier players would agree
1. they change the game too much with time warp and portal
2. can drop targets and reset fight on demand
3. highest sustainable burst in the game
4. spammable AOE that hits bloody hard

so why does a single spec have access to all that? if #1 and #4 were removed, i would be happy. the shatter mesmer is easily as stupid and ridiculous as the d/d ele and the BS thief. these low skillcap builds need to be abolished to make way for more variety, and a more interesting meta. people priding themselves on playing such builds need to have a look in the mirror, and start advocating on the forums for change.

To me it sounds like the “low skill cap” classes are the ones that just beat you. The high AOE on a mesmer can be avoided our burst is not as sustainable as one would think. Definitely doesn’t match thieves or warriors. Thieves by the way only have to wait three seconds to repeat their burst damage. Portal is getting spread to other classes. Thieves can drop target and reset the fight more often. We can do it twice if we have decoy and mass invis which would mean we don’t have time warp. Spammable means it can be hit repeatedly all shatters have a cooldown on them which means it’s not spammable and our only really damaging shatter can be used once every 15 seconds. Therefore I just gave you a sound argument that countered everything you just said. And a warrior spec with high skill cap? All warriors that I run dungeons with just sit there and tank while beating on the boss a lot of them just have signets across the board meaning they only have to use their weapon skills and adrenaline when its full. Mesmers have been nerfed and toned down look at the hotfix that ONLY addressed mesmers.

oh, is that what it sounds like to you? that’s great. im sure youre right on.

except you have no idea what i play, with whom i play and at what level i play. the issues i raised, actually, have been raised by the top pvp’ers who want this game to be more successful at the competitive level, and more bearable for casuals.

Everyone wants to see that. But instead of screaming for nerfs which just keep coming in anyways. Ask for a buff to the classes and specs that need it? You also just completely dismissed everything else I said about mesmers and their counters.

Some people won’t be satisfied until mes is gone. We all just have to live with those people.

jportell.2197:

Low skill cap? What class has an absolutely high skill cap in this game? Warriors and guardians just sit there and beat on each other without moving or thinking tactically. Thieves have stealth and the ability to spam certain attacks over and over and over,

You just completely generalized 3 groups of players based on nothing, how are we supposed to take you serious if this is your attitude? I guess maybe anybody who doesnt wear light armor plays an easy class?

Get over yourself, retreat and leap should still be used to avoid damage, but they shouldnt be available when youve already been caught. If you see a shield bash coming and use retreat to dodge it, that takes skill to do and thats cool. If you get immobilized with aoe under you and use it to get out of the way, thats cool.

If you let yourself get caught cause you used your rolls to make clones instead of dodging and use retreat like a crutch to fix your own mistake, no skill there and that aint cool at all.

SteepledHat.1345:

Some people won’t be satisfied until mes is gone. We all just have to live with those people.

Or give us dervish…
Home boy wants his scythes back

Mesmer is here to stay. And I still believe that the mesmer that did the swap on the iLeap did it so fast he prolly didn’t even notice the stun. It is also inside the description on the Wiki that it breaks stun even though the tool tip in game doesn’t say it. And I generalize groups of players based on what I see. With the people that I play with which granted isn’t the ENTIRE population of this game and thank god for that. And we shouldn’t be able to use this skills once we have been caught? Seriously? Do you know how many skills a mesmer has for general condition removal? 3! We don’t have a cleanse or anything of the sort aside from arcane thievery which requires a target and null field which only removes one condition per pulse. Only one class OFFICIALLY has weapon skills that break stun and that is dun dun dun THIEVES. The class that has the most stuns? Warriors. As mesmers we only have 1 weapon skill and one utility skill that cause stun. Aside from thieves and ele’s and guardians (2 of which can give themselves so many boons that who cares about their health it will never lower) we have the lowest health in the game. As far as skills that break stun we have the most. For good reason. Without these skills we would have the least number of ways to mitigate damage from people. Other classes damage mitigation utilities and weapon skills are much longer than ours and all of our damage mitigation focuses on stun breaking. Sorry man but I think all of these skills are working as intended (which is odd for a mesmer since most things are buggy beyond belief) and they will not and most definitely should not change because it will leave us severely hampered when it comes to damage mitigation. And how can you see a shield bash coming for one it has a 1/2 second cast time which if you take in human response acting perfectly .2 seconds to see and .2 seconds to react maybe! So that gives us one .1 second of wiggle room friend which is nothing. Please leave my class alone. Also to the person that thinks shatter mesmer is a LOW skill cap. And considers the list of her other classes a high skill cap. Being a shatter mesmer takes the MOST battle field awareness because you want to get the most out of your clones before they die and are able to shatter them. You not only have to look at your health but the health of 3 other individuals and look for their location so you can appropriately time your skills. Necros have their minions but the health of them doesn’t matter because they don’t get punished in damage if they die before the necro wants. Rangers have a pet health bar right above their skills and are only penalized if they swap pets when one is severely injured. And any warrior spec having a high skill cap? Really? The mesmer has some of the highest amount moving parts to it which requires timing and fast decision making but in reality this game really only requires that we be able to quickly press 10 different buttons on our keyboard. Doesn’t take a lot of skill to do no matter what class it is (even mesmers) but if we are comparing skill cap of mesmers to other professions I say yes mesmers have one of the highest in the game.

I hope this isn’t nerfed because i use it every single time i get immobilized by another mesmer (generic mesmer #1828738721 with sword/pistol+ spam F1+F2+F3 on blurred frenzy), 100swag warriors and basilisc venom thieves. Leap is extremely useful in spvp/wvw so they better don’t touch this awesome skill, eveeeer.

Please keep it coming the more people on this thread that argue against nerfing an already buggy skill thus pulling the useful weapons for mesmers down to wait for it 2. GS and Staff the better off mesmers will be. And if they get PR nerfed then mesmers just as well give up and reroll what ever the entire community thinks you should play because we are obviously the redheaded step child of the player base.

jportell.2197:

Please keep it coming the more people on this thread that argue against nerfing an already buggy skill thus pulling the useful weapons for mesmers down to wait for it 2. GS and Staff the better off mesmers will be. And if they get PR nerfed then mesmers just as well give up and reroll what ever the entire community thinks you should play because we are obviously the redheaded step child of the player base.

All the people talking against it actually are mesmers (thats what we called bias boys and girls). Find me one thief who thinks retreat and leap are fine. Find me a thousand mesmers who think you should keep it and that wouldnt mean nothing because this thread is about what the players base thinks, not what the mesmer base thinks. We already know what you think.

And how come you can complain about only having 3 conditions remove skills? Warriors get two but god forbid they complain about anything. Why do all of you mesmers seem so afraid of compromise, its like this NOPE IM PERFECT DONT TOUCH ME attitude with all of you guys oh my god.

As soon as you tell me why steal breaks stun when it clearly says nowhere in the tooltip that it does… Shouldn’t this be fixed as well? Hmmmmm…. :P Food for thought coming from me playing on my thief right now. But noone seems to be griping about this… But I bet if the Backstab damage and mug and what not ever get nerf it will be griped about.

Edit: When I first posted this I had only used it on knockdowns. Went to the BL’s in WvW and got stunned by a few krait and guards on purpose. YES STEAL DOES BREAK STUN so this is not only a mesmer issue on having skills that break stun when it doesn’t state so. You just seem to have it out for us and I am prolly not the first one that noticed this about thieves but because you are so keen to pick out mesmers for this I thought I should point another class that I know for sure can do this when it doesn’t say so. I am sure there are other classes with the same bugs and/or inaccurate tool tips.

Vision.3541:

hharry.1967:

Agree, if it doesnt break stun/knock downs it shouldnt be able to be used, prolly a bug.

Dont think its a bug, thieves get the same thing with their sword skill. Its just not as problematic against thieves

Woah woah woah not as problematic? I hadn’t read all your posts but every twelve seconds is nowhere near as fast as just as often as you’d like because you don’t use cooldowns. Sorry man. This seems really bias to me.