Guild Wars 2

You doubted mew.
You said the kitty wouldnt make it.

Elo hell has been destroyed by the GOAT kittykittymeowmew,

http://imgur.com/a/Tn2OW

80% winratio from 600 rating bronze to legend, all soloque, all kittyness.

now, the kitty is going to rest for the rest of the season because playing on alt accounts in legend is being a wuss.

dat winrate is just stupid

Oh, GJ. From Bronze-kitty to Legendary kitty in no time at all. Well, maybe time for me to get my kitten together and get out of silver

Nice

/15151515

Gj Jebro

Well done. ESL level Players can do it. Annything below will need hundreds of games to reach their spot if startign at 600.
Now repeat it playing elementalist ^^.

Wolfric.9380:

Now repeat it playing elementalist ^^.

tbh ele is the best carry class behind Mesmer.

This is a bad representation of the how the system works. If he played a good number of games in bronze, then tried to climb, it would show what most users complain about. His mmr was still volatile enough to have the system pull him out of bronze, but if he got a 50% win rate for say, 30 games in bronze and then tried to climb, he would have a much more difficult time of it.

Crinn.7864:

Wolfric.9380:

Now repeat it playing elementalist ^^.

tbh ele is the best carry class behind Mesmer.

Lolwut?!?

This must be sarcasm…

It has to be sarcasm….

Please, God I don’t believe in, let it be sarcasm…

Also @Tim, if you had played in bronze without making significant gains for a while then you do in fact belong in bronze. If you really think you shouldn’t be there you can duo queue with someone in silver/gold and if you keep winning then you will get enough rating to leave bronze. If however you belong in bronze you will get destroyed by players 1v1 and lose to classes you counter and be a liability most likely losing matches.

The term “you” is a generic term aimed at the general player was not you specifically Tim, I don’t know what rank you are and I don’t care so long as you’re having decent matches.

@Bloodriver Tim: You sure about that? I watched his stream and in bronze he fought people 1 v 3. It might have taken a few more matches, but I doubt it would have been difficult.

BloodriverTim.2031:

This is a bad representation of the how the system works. If he played a good number of games in bronze, then tried to climb, it would show what most users complain about. His mmr was still volatile enough to have the system pull him out of bronze, but if he got a 50% win rate for say, 30 games in bronze and then tried to climb, he would have a much more difficult time of it.

Why would a decent player have a 50% winrate in bronze for 30 games? Your example makes no sense.

BloodriverTim.2031:

This is a bad representation of the how the system works. If he played a good number of games in bronze, then tried to climb, it would show what most users complain about. His mmr was still volatile enough to have the system pull him out of bronze, but if he got a 50% win rate for say, 30 games in bronze and then tried to climb, he would have a much more difficult time of it.

I had 600 rating. 3-7 placements.

https://youtu.be/as7RtX0JC-4?t=10
Look at the amount of games played in the vid for instance where I was still in bronze. At this point my stats were 13-2 not counting placements. I climbed the entire path, winning around 15-20 rating per win with iirc only one more loss.

How many more games would you say I had to play for my winratio to go from the 90% it was at bronze to the 50% you suggest?

‘’repeat it playing ele’’
Why would I play a support in bronze?

‘’ele is best carry class, mesmer is 2nd’’

Warrior is easily the best carry class for lower ranks.

Here we go again with people bashing nothelseth for something something blah blah. Shouldve done it with blah. He should be blindfolded and using one hand only. Blah blah blah. Get over yourself bronze gods. He just proved that elo hell can be beaten by playing good. So practice some more and try not to use your legendary title if you are in bronze / silver. It’s embarassing. Just proves that you face roll farmed that title from previous seasons.

Possible just by bad luck, Loss streaks can happen without being able to carry. I also duoed with someone much higer and guess what i won the matches, won duels and died just once. The only noticeable diffrence was people on both sides seemed to know what to do much better which resulted in my play had more impact …. I paly ele and thing i noticed people actually dodgeerolled in my direction when low so i could heal them better, teams didn´t panic when something was not going well. Disengaging was normal. I died only once on forest when i got in a 1:2 at mid and coudn´t disengage from the warrior. The only thing preventing to duo much higer is that a loss might rip a lot of points from the high player and guess what … they don´t want that happen.
It´s logic for a superior player to get out fast. Good MMR gain and the players are so bad that he can acually 1:3 and carry hard.
Of course it correct that ele is not so good in low tiers due to people jsut being bad instadying, feeding or running somwhere not needed….
I play warrior as backup in a burst and move version to swap for “Carry” …. Problem is i have about 10% games on warr compared to ele ….

JahCool.3812:

Here we go again with people bashing nothelseth for something something blah blah. Shouldve done it with blah. He should be blindfolded and using one hand only. Blah blah blah. Get over yourself bronze gods. He just proved that elo hell can be beaten by playing good. So practice some more and try not to use your legendary title if you are in bronze / silver. It’s embarassing. Just proves that you face roll farmed that title from previous seasons.

Actually what he proved is that if you don’t belong in bronze you should be able to climb out of bronze. He also proved that you will move to where you should be no matter where you start, given enough matches I’m sure he could get this account to the top 5.

Still yeah, if someone is in bronze with a 50% win ratio then they belong in bronze. I agree it’s also ridiculous to ask him to not only play a class he’s not mechanically great at but also is one of the worst ones for carrying.

Siren.2843:

dat winrate is just stupid

I’m actually surprised it isn’t better.
All top ranked players – including his main account – have a very similar w/l ratio while exclusively playing against a higher mmr bracket.

cranos.5913:

BloodriverTim.2031:

This is a bad representation of the how the system works. If he played a good number of games in bronze, then tried to climb, it would show what most users complain about. His mmr was still volatile enough to have the system pull him out of bronze, but if he got a 50% win rate for say, 30 games in bronze and then tried to climb, he would have a much more difficult time of it.

Why would a decent player have a 50% winrate in bronze for 30 games? Your example makes no sense.

For the same reason a decent player would start in bronze in the first place? You lose more matches on purpose.

But it really wouldn’t have made a difference. If you’re good you won’t stay in bronze regardless of how many matches you’ve played.

nothelseth.4621:

Warrior is easily the best carry class for lower ranks.

More like: any dps build.

Anet let him win. We all know it.

People don’t seem to understand my point. If you lose 7 of 10 placements on purpose to get into bronze, but then go 20-0 for the next 20 games, the system doesn’t stabilize your mmr in bronze. A true show of carry out of bronze would be to get to the point where you gain less mmr than you lose, like people are seeing in their “correct” tier, then starting the climb. I’m not bashing the guy, I just think this was more of a “hey look at me, I’m special” than it was a show of how you can climb in the system.

BloodriverTim.2031:

People don’t seem to understand my point. If you lose 7 of 10 placements on purpose to get into bronze, but then go 20-0 for the next 20 games, the system doesn’t stabilize your mmr in bronze. A true show of carry out of bronze would be to get to the point where you gain less mmr than you lose, like people are seeing in their “correct” tier, then starting the climb. I’m not bashing the guy, I just think this was more of a “hey look at me, I’m special” than it was a show of how you can climb in the system.

But isn’t the point to prove that he does not belong there (like many have complained about) and if you were unlucky with your placement matches and got placed in bronze you can easily escape it if you have the skills to do so. If you get a 50% win-ration in bronze, you most likely belong there?

Dadefyl.1908:

BloodriverTim.2031:

People don’t seem to understand my point. If you lose 7 of 10 placements on purpose to get into bronze, but then go 20-0 for the next 20 games, the system doesn’t stabilize your mmr in bronze. A true show of carry out of bronze would be to get to the point where you gain less mmr than you lose, like people are seeing in their “correct” tier, then starting the climb. I’m not bashing the guy, I just think this was more of a “hey look at me, I’m special” than it was a show of how you can climb in the system.

But isn’t the point to prove that he does not belong there (like many have complained about) and if you were unlucky with your placement matches and got placed in bronze you can easily escape it if you have the skills to do so. If you get a 50% win-ration in bronze, you most likely belong there?

Perhaps I misunderstood the point of the playthrough. My understanding was that if you get stuck in bronze and work to improve, that anyone should be able to climb out. It cannot be called ELO Hell imo if you gain 30 mmr per win.

BloodriverTim.2031:

Dadefyl.1908:

BloodriverTim.2031:

People don’t seem to understand my point. If you lose 7 of 10 placements on purpose to get into bronze, but then go 20-0 for the next 20 games, the system doesn’t stabilize your mmr in bronze. A true show of carry out of bronze would be to get to the point where you gain less mmr than you lose, like people are seeing in their “correct” tier, then starting the climb. I’m not bashing the guy, I just think this was more of a “hey look at me, I’m special” than it was a show of how you can climb in the system.

But isn’t the point to prove that he does not belong there (like many have complained about) and if you were unlucky with your placement matches and got placed in bronze you can easily escape it if you have the skills to do so. If you get a 50% win-ration in bronze, you most likely belong there?

Perhaps I misunderstood the point of the playthrough. My understanding was that if you get stuck in bronze and work to improve, that anyone should be able to climb out. It cannot be called ELO Hell imo if you gain 30 mmr per win.

I see what you mean…but then it is just that people refuse to accept where they might actually fit in the league or refuse to change class into something that might help carry better.

If I remember correctly was this a response to the complaint that people were unlucky with placements and ended up in a league they “should not at all be in” and could not get out of there. I could be mistaken though

BloodriverTim.2031:

People don’t seem to understand my point. If you lose 7 of 10 placements on purpose to get into bronze, but then go 20-0 for the next 20 games, the system doesn’t stabilize your mmr in bronze. A true show of carry out of bronze would be to get to the point where you gain less mmr than you lose, like people are seeing in their “correct” tier, then starting the climb. I’m not bashing the guy, I just think this was more of a “hey look at me, I’m special” than it was a show of how you can climb in the system.

But if people are getting to that point where they gain less than they lose in bronze then they do in fact belong in bronze. Doesn’t matter if it’s bronze, silver, gold, platinum or legendary, when you get to that point you are more or less where you belong.

Winning still awards 15-20 rating so a win streak of 3 or 4 games can take you to the next level of the division. If you then get a 40% loss rate there you will stay even especially if you’re getting top stats.

Dadefyl.1908:

But isn’t the point to prove that he does not belong there…

The point was to get more viewers for his Twitch stream, it is just another version of solo queue to legend on a non-HoT build, etc, that PvP streamers have done before because normally it ups their views.

As a valid, useful experiment it has no point, because it is a joke in that regard with a sample size of 1, hence proves nothing of any value.

BloodriverTim.2031:

Perhaps I misunderstood the point of the playthrough. My understanding was that if you get stuck in bronze and work to improve, that anyone should be able to climb out. It cannot be called ELO Hell imo if you gain 30 mmr per win.

Being able to climb out upon actually improving is a different thing from what people usually talk about. It is indeed rather hard once your MMR has setteled, but I’d argue that with 2 months per season it is acceptable and you can climb higher after the next MMR reset.

What people usually claimed was that they ended up in Bronze and could never ever get out, because they always had the 4 worst players of the game in their team while facing top ESL players…all of that while always playing godlike themselves of course.

We all know that there isn’t a Elo hell in a game that doesn’t use Elo.

(also guys it’s Elo not ELO, it’s not a acronym.)

BloodriverTim.2031:

This is a bad representation of the how the system works. If he played a good number of games in bronze, then tried to climb, it would show what most users complain about. His mmr was still volatile enough to have the system pull him out of bronze, but if he got a 50% win rate for say, 30 games in bronze and then tried to climb, he would have a much more difficult time of it.

No. It is impossible to lose at bronze. The players are so bad that you can just run from point to point and wipe their whole team.

I also placed at 1000 MMR and played my way up to legend. This is despite the following facts:
1, I dont run meta
2, I am bad at the game
3, I have no idea what other HOT specs do. I have played HOT for 4 weeks

My experience was:
1, At bronze you basically cannot lose
2, At silver it is still hard to lose
3, At gold it becomes a little harder. The players get decent. Also gold is full of toxic players who will afk very easily and cost you some games.
4, At platinum you then play with and against good players. In solo queue you will go through periods of winning and losing

Helseth is right. There is no MMR hell. The only thing which exists is MMR variance. A 1600 player might go on a bad streak and drop to 1450 or a good streak and get to 1750. This variance can be significantly reduced by duo queueing.

i hit plat using a Greatsword Wells necro. If thats not a handicap i dont know what is.

BloodriverTim.2031:

People don’t seem to understand my point. If you lose 7 of 10 placements on purpose to get into bronze, but then go 20-0 for the next 20 games, the system doesn’t stabilize your mmr in bronze. A true show of carry out of bronze would be to get to the point where you gain less mmr than you lose, like people are seeing in their “correct” tier, then starting the climb. I’m not bashing the guy, I just think this was more of a “hey look at me, I’m special” than it was a show of how you can climb in the system.

Your point just makes no sense. The MMR doesn’t settle into anything until you start playing seriously. It only settles when you have reached your peak performance.

NeXeD.3042:

i hit plat using a Greatsword Wells necro. If thats not a handicap i dont know what is.

Wells are not actually half bad as long as you actually use the ones that are genuinely useful, which would be Wells of Power and Corruption. And use them against the right opponents.

So, a very experienced player goes through the process of starting out against the most inexperienced players, progresses out of those ranks into middle tiers/levels whereby he is still contributing in aiding a team victories by being more experienced than them but less so now because experience and skill are starting to reciprocate in the effort. Finally, he ends up where he belongs getting now getting even more assistance from equally skilled/experienced players and this proves what? Nothing.

Soothsayer.9206:

So, a very experienced player goes through the process of starting out against the most inexperienced players, progresses out of those ranks into middle tiers/levels whereby he is still contributing in aiding a team victories by being more experienced than them but less so now because experience and skill are starting to reciprocate in the effort. Finally, he ends up where he belongs getting now getting even more assistance from equally skilled/experienced players and this proves what? Nothing.

It very clearly proves that if you are skilled, you can get out of the lower tiers playing solo.

Players frustrated about the lack of advancement would have a better chance to carry matches at lower levels and advance if they were more skilled than their opponents.

nothelseth proved that if you are skilled – at the very least more than your opponents – if you work on your craft to improve, you will improve as a player and advance. Improving your craft is not just about spamming matches.

I don’t see how this can be refuted. It seems players just don’t want to put in the work to get better at the game. To improve as a player, spamming duels against better players will go a long way.

The way kittykittymeowmew got so good was by spamming duels over the years, doing that far more than actually playing matches.

In my experience it seems players aren’t really interested in doing that. I get it, the feeling is that “it’s the middle of the season, I’m not going to advance if I don’t play”, etc.

I fall victim to this as well. To truly improve, I believe players need to focus at least 50/50 on honing skills in duels as in playing matches.

skcamow.3527:

Soothsayer.9206:

So, a very experienced player goes through the process of starting out against the most inexperienced players, progresses out of those ranks into middle tiers/levels whereby he is still contributing in aiding a team victories by being more experienced than them but less so now because experience and skill are starting to reciprocate in the effort. Finally, he ends up where he belongs getting now getting even more assistance from equally skilled/experienced players and this proves what? Nothing.

It very clearly proves that if you are skilled, you can get out of the lower tiers playing solo.

Players frustrated about the lack of advancement would have a better chance to carry matches at lower levels and advance if they were more skilled than their opponents.

nothelseth proved that if you are skilled – at the very least more than your opponents – if you work on your craft to improve, you will improve as a player and advance. Improving your craft is not just about spamming matches.

I don’t see how this can be refuted. It seems players just don’t want to put in the work to get better at the game. To improve as a player, spamming duels against better players will go a long way.

The way kittykittymeowmew got so good was by spamming duels over the years, doing that far more than actually playing matches.

In my experience it seems players aren’t really interested in doing that. I get it, the feeling is that “it’s the middle of the season, I’m not going to advance if I don’t play”, etc.

I fall victim to this as well. To truly improve, I believe players need to focus at least 50/50 on honing skills in duels as in playing matches.

All it proves is that a skilled and experienced player can take advantage of the unskilled/inexperienced players, and the system that doesn’t know how to differentiate between the person that is behind the account from the account itself because it cannot know that said player actually very skilled and belongs at a much higher level (it’s an alt account). He already possesses the experience and skill, this is a huge advantage. For everyone else who is in lower tiers than he should actually be in, they are still currently in this process.
What people are forgetting is this: at some point he begins to benefit from the skill level of others as he progresses – he requires less help because of the increase in experience and skill. He should still be advancing because he still has more experience and skill but it will now require less effort on his part. In other words, he can take advantage of the experience/skill differential until he reaches his real rank.
For example, if a professional NFL player goes down to play high school football, what would you expect when he suits up and takes the field? You would decry his unfair advantage both because of his experience and his skill. Does this mean that there is something wrong with all those high school athletes because they don’t have what the NFL player has accrued with time both in experience and skill? All it proves that with enough time and practice, one might progress to the NFL but it’s certainly not a commentary on those high school athletes or the game of football.

BloodriverTim.2031:

This is a bad representation of the how the system works. If he played a good number of games in bronze, then tried to climb, it would show what most users complain about. His mmr was still volatile enough to have the system pull him out of bronze, but if he got a 50% win rate for say, 30 games in bronze and then tried to climb, he would have a much more difficult time of it.

Not true. I was able to climb from bronze to gold on my main. I did not get more than 18 gain on any single win. Most were in the 10 to 13 range. I don’t belong in plat/legend so I will continue to hover around in gold. Average players can get where they belong as well.

Faux Play.6104:

BloodriverTim.2031:

This is a bad representation of the how the system works. If he played a good number of games in bronze, then tried to climb, it would show what most users complain about. His mmr was still volatile enough to have the system pull him out of bronze, but if he got a 50% win rate for say, 30 games in bronze and then tried to climb, he would have a much more difficult time of it.

Not true. I was able to climb from bronze to gold on my main. I did not get more than 18 gain on any single win. Most were in the 10 to 13 range. I don’t belong in plat/legend so I will continue to hover around in gold. Average players can get where they belong as well.

It’s not worth trying to use logic and reason, the players whining about mmr hell are solely under the belief that they are better than they are, and that anyone besides a pro that places where they belong were carried by luck, and not by the system working properly.

skcamow.3527:

It very clearly proves that if you are skilled, you can get out of the lower tiers playing solo.

what was not proven is if you get a loss streak, and I mean a bad one, improve, and succeed leaving the tier.

idk what you guys are on about, bronze games are carry-able on no amulet core ranger. I wanted to get my f2p account to 0 rating (or whatever the minimum is) but it is actually really difficult to lose without playing very very poorly or going afk. Even on troll builds. If you are stuck in bronze, you don’t belong anywhere else.

Addendum: For some, the process of obtaining a higher rank is grueling and time consuming (there are many things to overcome – e.g. match manipulating is a real and frustrating issue). so saying that “gehenna” doesn’t exist is at best a caricature at worst an overstatement because with enough time and help, people can get to higher rankings/skill levels. I think most reasonable people/players already know this and that is not really the issue with “gehenna.”

Impressive, you’ve proved that you’re a good player (no kitten). This is a sample size of 1. This proves nothing in the grand scheme of things. I’m probably leaning towards the sheer luck that you got in terms of team comp and your teammates skill level. I don’t think it matters how good you are individually if the rest of your team came straight out of queensdale.

Blue.1207:

Impressive, you’ve proved that you’re a good player (no kitten). This is a sample size of 1. This proves nothing in the grand scheme of things. I’m probably leaning towards the sheer luck that you got in terms of team comp and your teammates skill level. I don’t think it matters how good you are individually if the rest of your team came straight out of queensdale.

groan

did you watch any of the streams?

nothelseth.4621:

Blue.1207:

Impressive, you’ve proved that you’re a good player (no kitten). This is a sample size of 1. This proves nothing in the grand scheme of things. I’m probably leaning towards the sheer luck that you got in terms of team comp and your teammates skill level. I don’t think it matters how good you are individually if the rest of your team came straight out of queensdale.

groan

did you watch any of the streams?

what would watching the streams prove? nothing. just like this whole manufactured business of how an elite level player was able to get back to his actual level after starting out at the lowest tier.

Soothsayer.9206:

nothelseth.4621:

Blue.1207:

Impressive, you’ve proved that you’re a good player (no kitten). This is a sample size of 1. This proves nothing in the grand scheme of things. I’m probably leaning towards the sheer luck that you got in terms of team comp and your teammates skill level. I don’t think it matters how good you are individually if the rest of your team came straight out of queensdale.

groan

did you watch any of the streams?

what would watching the streams prove? nothing. just like this whole manufactured business of how an elite level player was able to get back to his actual level after starting out at the lowest tier.

He suggested that I maintained an 85% winratio throughout my climb because of luck in teammates and teamcomps

So I’m interested in knowing if he saw me win 1v3/1v2ss all the way through plat 2 where I consistently won games where I had 2x thieves 2x mesmer teams etc.

nothelseth.4621:

You doubted mew.
You said the kitty wouldnt make it.

Elo hell has been destroyed by the GOAT kittykittymeowmew,

http://imgur.com/a/Tn2OW

80% winratio from 600 rating bronze to legend, all soloque, all kittyness.

now, the kitty is going to rest for the rest of the season because playing on alt accounts in legend is being a wuss.

i have a question for you:
how a ESL pro land in 600 rating?

Soothsayer.9206:

nothelseth.4621:

Blue.1207:

Impressive, you’ve proved that you’re a good player (no kitten). This is a sample size of 1. This proves nothing in the grand scheme of things. I’m probably leaning towards the sheer luck that you got in terms of team comp and your teammates skill level. I don’t think it matters how good you are individually if the rest of your team came straight out of queensdale.

groan

did you watch any of the streams?

what would watching the streams prove? nothing. just like this whole manufactured business of how an elite level player was able to get back to his actual level after starting out at the lowest tier.

Dude that is the point. The fact he is an elite level player does not matter. The point is that if you skill rating does not reflect your actual skill then you will climb. It is nothing to do with this particular individual so stop getting obsessed with it. It shows that you get where you belong (or close to where you belong).

Lets say you are a gold t1 players and place at bronze. You will still climb up easily out of bronze. Your climb will slow as you near your actual skill rating.

nothelseth.4621:

Soothsayer.9206:

nothelseth.4621:

Blue.1207:

Impressive, you’ve proved that you’re a good player (no kitten). This is a sample size of 1. This proves nothing in the grand scheme of things. I’m probably leaning towards the sheer luck that you got in terms of team comp and your teammates skill level. I don’t think it matters how good you are individually if the rest of your team came straight out of queensdale.

groan

did you watch any of the streams?

what would watching the streams prove? nothing. just like this whole manufactured business of how an elite level player was able to get back to his actual level after starting out at the lowest tier.

He suggested that I maintained an 85% winratio throughout my climb because of luck in teammates and teamcomps

So I’m interested in knowing if he saw me win 1v3/1v2ss all the way through plat 2 where I consistently won games where I had 2x thieves 2x mesmer teams etc.

Okay, would you like recognition for taking advantage of lesser experienced and skilled players and posting it in a video? I have had moments like that too, especially this season where I am usually the only Mesmer – 2v1 seems to be my life right now. Sometimes I do well enough, sometimes I just try and hang on until my team can rotate back to help and if I do somehow make it, should I get a cookie or something?
Currently, I am trying to figure out when the best time to force a double team is and when it’s the most beneficial for the team. Having stated that, I don’t make a big deal about it when I am facing people who are obviously less experienced and skilled than me – you know what I mean because it’s usually obvious how inexperienced players play against Mesmer which you probably see all the time.
I just don’t know how seeing a video would help prove the point because of your genuine skill level. imho, this should be expected of you. as you progress you will less likely be able to continue having those sort of happenings and when you get back to your real skill level, its not going to happen with any expectation of winning. so, i just don’t know how seeing this would benefit anyone.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Soothsayer.9206:

nothelseth.4621:

Blue.1207:

Impressive, you’ve proved that you’re a good player (no kitten). This is a sample size of 1. This proves nothing in the grand scheme of things. I’m probably leaning towards the sheer luck that you got in terms of team comp and your teammates skill level. I don’t think it matters how good you are individually if the rest of your team came straight out of queensdale.

groan

did you watch any of the streams?

what would watching the streams prove? nothing. just like this whole manufactured business of how an elite level player was able to get back to his actual level after starting out at the lowest tier.

Dude that is the point. The fact he is an elite level player does not matter. The point is that if you skill rating does not reflect your actual skill then you will climb. It is nothing to do with this particular individual so stop getting obsessed with it. It shows that you get where you belong (or close to where you belong).

Lets say you are a gold t1 players and place at bronze. You will still climb up easily out of bronze. Your climb will slow as you near your actual skill rating.

only proves that he took advantage of people who had no business playing against him. he should have easily climbed out of bronze, but doesn’t debunk anything for people who are actually stuck for various reasons not necessarily associated with skill(again, match manipulation is a real issue currently and some will get stuck).
again, what is skill level? it’s certainly not = to MMR (which is a reflection of the teams you are on more than your actual personal skill level – this is a two-edged sword because sometimes you will be the one with high MMR and sometimes you will not be). so it seems artificial to talk about tier and equated it to personal skill because there are some who are expected to carry and some who are carried.

Soothsayer.9206:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Soothsayer.9206:

nothelseth.4621:

Blue.1207:

Impressive, you’ve proved that you’re a good player (no kitten). This is a sample size of 1. This proves nothing in the grand scheme of things. I’m probably leaning towards the sheer luck that you got in terms of team comp and your teammates skill level. I don’t think it matters how good you are individually if the rest of your team came straight out of queensdale.

groan

did you watch any of the streams?

what would watching the streams prove? nothing. just like this whole manufactured business of how an elite level player was able to get back to his actual level after starting out at the lowest tier.

Dude that is the point. The fact he is an elite level player does not matter. The point is that if you skill rating does not reflect your actual skill then you will climb. It is nothing to do with this particular individual so stop getting obsessed with it. It shows that you get where you belong (or close to where you belong).

Lets say you are a gold t1 players and place at bronze. You will still climb up easily out of bronze. Your climb will slow as you near your actual skill rating.

only proves that he took advantage of people who had no business playing against him. he should have easily climbed out of bronze, but doesn’t debunk anything for people who are actually stuck for various reasons not necessarily associated with skill(again, match manipulation is a real issue currently and some will get stuck).
again, what is skill level? it’s certainly not = to MMR (which is a reflection of the teams you are on more than your actual personal skill level – this is a two-edged sword because sometimes you will be the one with high MMR and sometimes you will not be). so it seems artificial to talk about tier and equated it to personal skill because there are some who are expected to carry and some who are carried.

But mmr does equate to skill. It isnt perfect due to variance, but it is very close. That is the whole point of him saying he placed at whatever and moved to 2000 or whatever he moved to.

Your personal mmr reflects your personal skill. I just cant believe you are arguing against this. Just because its a team game doesnt mean you individually dont impact the outcome as the team is made up of individuals.

All the stuff you talk about adds variance, it does not make the mmr meaningless.

Its not perfect due to variance, duo queue and other things. But it is pretty accurate.

Stand The Wall.6987:

skcamow.3527:

It very clearly proves that if you are skilled, you can get out of the lower tiers playing solo.

what was not proven is if you get a loss streak, and I mean a bad one, improve, and succeed leaving the tier.

This thread meets your requirement. Gold player ends up in bronze then climbs back out to gold.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Climbing-out-of-bronze/first#post6459694

Hes lying he was playing duo with a thief.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Soothsayer.9206:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Soothsayer.9206:

nothelseth.4621:

Blue.1207:

Impressive, you’ve proved that you’re a good player (no kitten). This is a sample size of 1. This proves nothing in the grand scheme of things. I’m probably leaning towards the sheer luck that you got in terms of team comp and your teammates skill level. I don’t think it matters how good you are individually if the rest of your team came straight out of queensdale.

groan

did you watch any of the streams?

what would watching the streams prove? nothing. just like this whole manufactured business of how an elite level player was able to get back to his actual level after starting out at the lowest tier.

Dude that is the point. The fact he is an elite level player does not matter. The point is that if you skill rating does not reflect your actual skill then you will climb. It is nothing to do with this particular individual so stop getting obsessed with it. It shows that you get where you belong (or close to where you belong).

Lets say you are a gold t1 players and place at bronze. You will still climb up easily out of bronze. Your climb will slow as you near your actual skill rating.

only proves that he took advantage of people who had no business playing against him. he should have easily climbed out of bronze, but doesn’t debunk anything for people who are actually stuck for various reasons not necessarily associated with skill(again, match manipulation is a real issue currently and some will get stuck).
again, what is skill level? it’s certainly not = to MMR (which is a reflection of the teams you are on more than your actual personal skill level – this is a two-edged sword because sometimes you will be the one with high MMR and sometimes you will not be). so it seems artificial to talk about tier and equated it to personal skill because there are some who are expected to carry and some who are carried.

But mmr does equate to skill. It isnt perfect due to variance, but it is very close. That is the whole point of him saying he placed at whatever and moved to 2000 or whatever he moved to.

Your personal mmr reflects your personal skill. I just cant believe you are arguing against this. Just because its a team game doesnt mean you individually dont impact the outcome as the team is made up of individuals.

All the stuff you talk about adds variance, it does not make the mmr meaningless.

Its not perfect due to variance, duo queue and other things. But it is pretty accurate.

Personal MMR cannot reflect your individual, personal skill level and that is by design – you are always dependent on others (4 others) and that contribution is significantly greater than your personal contribution no matter how much we want to believe otherwise. That’s why match manipulation is so frustrating and damaging, it kills your win/loss ratio and tanks your MMR over and against your best efforts. So, some will actually be better than MMR reflects (they will be held back), and at the same time some will be worse (they are carried). Therefore, MMR equates the teams (the totality of teams) you are on, rather than you personal skill level. I do not want to deny some need a reality check because they are not as good as they think, but at the time, I do believe the frustration of others who may genuinely be better than the MMR reflects.

Ragnarox.9601:

Hes lying he was playing duo with a thief.

Not sure if you are talking to me or kitty, but I have not played a single match as a duo this season.

Soothsayer.9206:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Soothsayer.9206:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Soothsayer.9206:

nothelseth.4621:

Blue.1207:

Impressive, you’ve proved that you’re a good player (no kitten). This is a sample size of 1. This proves nothing in the grand scheme of things. I’m probably leaning towards the sheer luck that you got in terms of team comp and your teammates skill level. I don’t think it matters how good you are individually if the rest of your team came straight out of queensdale.

groan

did you watch any of the streams?

what would watching the streams prove? nothing. just like this whole manufactured business of how an elite level player was able to get back to his actual level after starting out at the lowest tier.

Dude that is the point. The fact he is an elite level player does not matter. The point is that if you skill rating does not reflect your actual skill then you will climb. It is nothing to do with this particular individual so stop getting obsessed with it. It shows that you get where you belong (or close to where you belong).

Lets say you are a gold t1 players and place at bronze. You will still climb up easily out of bronze. Your climb will slow as you near your actual skill rating.

only proves that he took advantage of people who had no business playing against him. he should have easily climbed out of bronze, but doesn’t debunk anything for people who are actually stuck for various reasons not necessarily associated with skill(again, match manipulation is a real issue currently and some will get stuck).
again, what is skill level? it’s certainly not = to MMR (which is a reflection of the teams you are on more than your actual personal skill level – this is a two-edged sword because sometimes you will be the one with high MMR and sometimes you will not be). so it seems artificial to talk about tier and equated it to personal skill because there are some who are expected to carry and some who are carried.

But mmr does equate to skill. It isnt perfect due to variance, but it is very close. That is the whole point of him saying he placed at whatever and moved to 2000 or whatever he moved to.

Your personal mmr reflects your personal skill. I just cant believe you are arguing against this. Just because its a team game doesnt mean you individually dont impact the outcome as the team is made up of individuals.

All the stuff you talk about adds variance, it does not make the mmr meaningless.

Its not perfect due to variance, duo queue and other things. But it is pretty accurate.

Personal MMR cannot reflect your individual, personal skill level and that is by design – you are always dependent on others (4 others) and that contribution is significantly greater than your personal contribution no matter how much we want to believe otherwise. That’s why match manipulation is so frustrating and damaging, it kills your win/loss ratio and tanks your MMR over and against your best efforts. So, some will actually be better than MMR reflects (they will be held back), and at the same time some will be worse (they are carried). Therefore, MMR equates the teams (the totality of teams) you are on, rather than you personal skill level. I do not want to deny some need a reality check because they are not as good as they think, but at the time, I do believe the frustration of others who may genuinely be better than the MMR reflects.

Dude your view has been debunked by the very fact the OP went from bronze to legend. Yet you are still arguing that mmr doesnt reflect skill. Teams are made up of individuals. So the collective of the individuals determines whether you win or lose. Its really not complicated.

Put Michael Phelps in 100 random relay TEAMS against 100 relay teams and he will win more than anyone else so his MMR will go up and up to reflect that. Will he win every time? Nope. But his contributions help his team to win more often than not and so his mmr will eventually reflect this.