Guild Wars 2

Hello I am Thee Faux, I am currently rank 2 on the LB. I would like to express my ideas on how to improve the current pvp system for next season, along with my opinions on the current test season. Before I start, I am by no means the 2nd best player on NA, I am not an Elitest or a top level pvper. I farmed this ladder with a turret engi and last season to 66 with a condi ranger.
The most common complaint about the LB right now, is that people think it is a “grind”, that its just the people who play the most. There are a couple of cases where this is true. Looking at the top 25, there are 4 players with win rates of below .50%, rank 5. 48.25%, rank 10. 47.55%, rank 12. 45.83%, rank 16. 46.26%, rank 18. 49.08%. Not only is this a huge misrepresentation of what a top player is, its a slap in the face to rank 17 Mykasa Ackrman wins-211 losses-47 win%- 81.78%. My defense for the grindyish system other than those cases is casual players should be rewarded for playing alot of games, just not the the extent they currently are.
Things that need to change
-Greater emphasis on win loss ratio
-Less emphasis on points scored durring a match
Problems with ranked queue. Casual Soloqueurs hate fighting premades, somone..somewhere is complaining about it at this very moment. Throwing a randomly made up percentage out there I would guestamate 95% of regular pvpers hate that there is no divide between solo and team queue anymore. My personal opinion on the matter is..its tolerable. In the perfect world where the pvp community gets what they want Areanet would steal Leauge of Legends ranked system. Where theres the old team queue of -=5=-!!! and soloqueue would become Normal Ranked where parties could not exceed more than 2 members. Please dont dismiss everything I just said because I mentioned LoL, I don’t even play.
Since I mentioned I played turret engi I will comment on AI and the state of the current Meta. Why do I play turrets? Because I want the Glorious Hero’s shoulders and arm piece. Do I think they are over powered? Meh. There is very little skill to the build. Some of you might look at that last sentence and say “very little” is an oversatement. LISTEN HERE BLU42. Turret AI doesnt carry me in matches, I CARRY THE TURRETS. Jk nerf turrets pls. Also SLIGHTLY nerf Cele. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-must-happen-to-balance-PvP
I completely agree with everything Ana Banana has to say.

So.. what you’re saying is that we need ladders? According to anet, just wait.

The fact that you even bring up win ratio shows a lack of understanding of the nature of the system. Everyone should end up at around 50% win rate in a system with an infinite population of solo/team queue players across the skill spectrum.

There are two explanations for people with 100+ games played with 70%+ win rates. A) You started with a low MMR and you really are in the top 0.5% of players You’re spending a majority of your time queuing with other people.

I’ve played all my games solo exclusively as Mesmer. I also don’t bother to play unranked when I want to experiment with a new build. Hell I spent a lot of the weekend screwing around with bunker Mesmer builds. I’ve been around on/off since launch.

If the people with high win rates got there solo queuing then my hat’s off to them. I don’t play consistently well enough with the type of build that can carry bad players against the grinder of my happiness that is 5 solo players against a combination of grouped players.

To your original point there are some people at 50% on the front page who are grouped every time I see them. This is the true injustice of the leaderboards.

I think the system is about as fair as it can be given the decision to mix solo and team queue. There is defiantly a very large grinding component to the leaderboards but what should Arenanet do? Give the guy that farms a 80% win rate running a team speak coordinated team against five random pugs all the props or should they try to recognize the pugs who overcame that disadvantage and still made it a close game?
The current system gives them both some reward which is nice.

It’s not much fun for me usually going up against team queuers as a solo queuer, but given the realities of the game I don’t expect them to split out the population again. The only change I would suggest would be to keep the team and solo people in the same queue, but to have people who solo queue points go to a Solo Leader board and people who are team queued go to a Team Leader board. It would still be a grind, but at least you could compare win rates on each board.

Dixo.3876:

The fact that you even bring up win ratio shows a lack of understanding of the nature of the system. Everyone should end up at around 50% win rate in a system with an infinite population of solo/team queue players across the skill spectrum.

There are two explanations for people with 100+ games played with 70%+ win rates. A) You started with a low MMR and you really are in the top 0.5% of players You’re spending a majority of your time queuing with other people.

-There is no GM on the top 50 on any ladder on sc2 below .500.
-There is no tier system of gw2 that will stop the top 3 on lb partying together from getting a team with super low mmr to the point that the match lasts 2 minutes long <— this happened twice in a row
-The current MM system cannot accurately judge skill with its heavy emphasis on points scored during a match.
-Let me put it this way there are players trying to grind the LB who disregard whether they win or lose trying to farm points during a match.
-The fact that I get so bored during some matches because I’m actually taking time to remember to let the other team score 100 before we win, is a thought that should never enter my head.

I can’t tell if you’re agreeing with me or trying to provide counterpoints. My thoughts on your bullets.

-There is no GM on the top 50 on any ladder on sc2 below .500.

I didn’t do any research on SC2 population. But I’m pretty sure the population of SC2 is at least 1 or 2 orders of magnitude higher than GW2. With a population that large you will have the top percentile who win much more then .500. It’s also 1 v 1 instead of teams?

This seems like a bit of apples to orange comparison. The point of my post was that you can’t judge skill by win percent and that win percent is at best a dubious stats since solo players are being used as fodder to shorten team queue times

-There is no tier system of gw2 that will stop the top 3 on lb partying together from getting a team with super low mmr to the point that the match lasts 2 minutes long <— this happened twice in a row

Is this you admitting to basically forming a premade and farming pugs to get your points? For science solo for 500 games after reset and let’s see what your win percentage is.

-The current MM system cannot accurately judge skill with its heavy emphasis on points scored during a match.

If you mean scoreboard points during game (individual score based and kills/rezs etc.) then I think you’re mistaken;I don’t think these matter at all. How well the teams do realitive to each other is as fair of a way as I can think of doing it. It’s more information than just looking at a binary win/loss and allows a relatively stellar player on the losing team to not take a leader board hit

-Let me put it this way there are players trying to grind the LB who disregard whether they win or lose trying to farm points during a match.

Farm points during a match? Again kills etc isn’t how you get leaderboard points. If you are trying to go up on the leader board as fast as possible then you want the most wins in the shortest amount of time?

-The fact that I get so bored during some matches because I’m actually taking time to remember to let the other team score 100 before we win, is a thought that should never enter my head.

So you are laying down to try to be nice to the pugs your premade is stomping? You’re artificially tanking your MMR and inflating the pugs? Way to further screw up the system bro? How is an computer algorithm ever going to do its job if you manipulate the inputs?

I still think the best realistic thing they could do is leave everyone in the same pool, but assign points to different leaderboards depending on your queue size?

Look. If you want win/loss to mean anything, then only allow play in your specific bracket.

And no…GW2 does not HAVE brackets. They will put any noob against a veteran team if that’s all that is in the queue at the moment.

If you are going to essentially mix Gold bracket players with Bronze players, forget high win/loss as meaning anything other than you had easy games against weak opponents.

I mean, seriously, think this through a little more before saying a high win/loss ration in the current situation proves you have skill.

Thats why Anet should just toss the leader boards out the window. The only thing it does is fuel people’s egos.

Why do people even care about the leader boards it proves nothing about skill. If there are people that want to 5v5 Anet should make a team arena just for them and a leader board just for them.

Then the rest of the Solo’s/casual/new people can Que up something like the WoW style of a battleground. Cause face it half time some matches are good other people just fight off point or do something totally kittened and you lose. So why should 4 solo people be punished by losing points of the leaders boards because of some newbies bad play style.

If theres no Leader Board people have nothing to complain about.

Lopez.7369:

Greater emphasis on win-loss ratio is a bad idea.

All the developers need to do is attach point gains to MMR, which is what every other game, from World of Warcraft to chess, does.

How does the current system not accomplish this?

The problem is there’s no tranparncey in the point gain or loss. I have to hope the leaderboards update like they should and then try to guess/ remember which games were counted in the last update to see if I was -1,0 or +1 to the team of premade still hat I won every fight I was involved in during the match but still ended up losing by 200 points.

I recognize the headaches involved too. 5 v 5 has to be a lot harder to balance than a 1 v 1 MMR system. Can a really high MMR soloer balance out a duo/trio on another team? It depends; composition, is the premade on team speak or just typing (nothing like getting burst by two people from stealth)

I’ve. Been fairly pleased with my games lately. They’ve been close. Yesterday we have the same (high quality) pugs versus two different premades and won both games by less than 100

Laserbolt.6731:

Look. If you want win/loss to mean anything, then only allow play in your specific bracket.

And no…GW2 does not HAVE brackets. They will put any noob against a veteran team if that’s all that is in the queue at the moment.

If you are going to essentially mix Gold bracket players with Bronze players, forget high win/loss as meaning anything other than you had easy games against weak opponents.

I mean, seriously, think this through a little more before saying a high win/loss ration in the current situation proves you have skill.

Maybe you should read before responding. The ratio emphasis is to get rid of the grinding people are doing, which iv said twice now. 270 286 48.56% That win loss 500+ games is nothing but a person who grinds hours and tries to score as high as possible.

I mean, seriously, read the algorithm. Maybe read the second post.

No, win loss is meaningless since the matcher puts you in situations you are not expected to win.

You called out a win/loss of 46% as if it meant something about skill.

Dixo.3876:

Lopez.7369:

Greater emphasis on win-loss ratio is a bad idea.

All the developers need to do is attach point gains to MMR, which is what every other game, from World of Warcraft to chess, does.

How does the current system not accomplish this?

WoW combines MMR and points generated. How much points you get depend on your elo-rating.
Some examples:
Your current score: 2.000; elo-rating: 2.220 → A win gives you +20 points; A loss -5 points since your score is much lower than your elo-rating.
Your current score: 2.000; elo-rating: 2.050 → A win gives you +5 points. A loss -5 points since your score and your elo-rating are nearly the same.

multiply rank with win/match ratio, you get a number.

use that number to determine MMR.

just an idea.