Guild Wars 2

hey. let’s compare moa morph (10 seconds is fu***** OP. this skill never miss target.) and time warp(two times faster for 10 seconds? is it some kind of super intelligent alien technology? obviously impossible to win it.) to other elite skills. moa morph and time warp are just op. you can kill anyone if you use this elite skill.

my necromancer has plague, lich form, flesh golem. flesh golem has charge skill(long cooldown). i can knock down a foe once. and i become a plague and i do condition damage. but i never seen a person who uses plague for 2 weeks in tournament. seems very useless. and i become a huge green lich form. but if i lose all health in lich form, i die unlike death shroud. and he has no very strong skills. and you may miss target. and if i am attacked several enemies, i am just a sandbag unless everyone becomes lich form. i saw that 3 necromancer becomes lich form at once. and they were very strong. my group couldn’t kill them. but it is for only 30 seconds and it seems they are slow. we can go to other point. almost useless. i see moa morph and time warp very often and they win the game.

there must be some skill that i can kill myself. i dont want to fight against mesmer elite skills.
once imagine what will happen if real pro gamers use moa morph or time warps in esports. everyone will play mesmer. and you will see 5 mesmers vs 5 mesmers. time warp spam vs moa morph spam. and all they use teleport. they teleport everywhere. and take all points.

and whenever i play tourney, i enter voice chat. and whenever people become moa, they shout and say swear words or say “i became moa. i need help”. but i never seen that people say “i need help” when enemy uses lich form or flesh golem. it is everyone’s reaction. it is not a lie. mesmer elite skills are op.

- MOA : very long cast time = easily predictable, dodgeable, blockable, fumbleable, etc etc… It only lasts 10 seconds, I dont think i died often if ever while MOA’d. Add that its 3 mins CD = once in a game, so OP rofl

- Time Warp : 3.5 mins CD, 10 sec haste if people stay inside the aoe … Very powerful but mitigated by very long CD and its only effective in rare stationary fights.

- AoE invis : 90 sec CD for 5 second stealth .. WAOUH !!!

I would trade any of those 3 for something actually useful to my character.

OHhhhhh wait, I would take rogue’s shadow Refuge as Elite skill, even though they have it for free as utility skill : less cooldown, aoe stealthing zone that stays a while huhuhu AND it heals up !!!!

- Moa: cast it after staff 2 or simply vanishing and relocate. Your opponent won’t have a chance to react to the spell.
Moa single-handedly kills a necro minion spec because it despawns all minions and triggers the cd also the elite one plus cancels all elite forms and gives you a free go on the necro. Also in group fights it is simply deadly because you can focus on one while ignoring the other.

Amusing how some mesmer players even call it mediocre…would you like to have a class with a spell against you which puts all your utility spells on cd, stops your minion production and cancels your elite skill? I guess so, after all it is mediocre…

- Oh yeah, in a group fight your can only give your group a massive edge over the other once every 3.5 min and basically giving them the ability to roll over the enemy. Pretty bad…yeah

“I would trade any of those 3 for something actually useful to my character.”
When I read such a comment I wonder if you are either a hypocrit, the worst player on the world or just an ****.

I think this skill will be one of those thing that finally get balanced when PvP slowly dies and the developers start stressing out on what went wrong.Let’s see,seen it happening too way many times.

hey. let’s compare moa morph (10 seconds is fu***** OP. this skill never miss target.) and time warp(two times faster for 10 seconds? is it some kind of super intelligent alien technology? obviously impossible to win it.) to other elite skills. moa morph and time warp are just op. you can kill anyone if you use this elite skill.

Moa Morph could do with maybe a shorter duration or maybe allow peoples utils to be used when morphed.

Timewrap is a l2p issue, go outside the field, the quickness buff is not 10 seconds long it is 1 second and is reapplied every second for 10 seconds, so if they leave the field they lose quickness.

become a plague and i do condition damage. but i never seen a person who uses plague for 2 weeks in tournament…

Then start watching some decent necros (watch Exforce for instance), they don’t bother with the condition damage so much, what they do is continually apply blindess to give thier teamates a nice advanatage.

CeCaKonVeu.5734:

- MOA : very long cast time = easily predictable, dodgeable, blockable, fumbleable, etc etc… It only lasts 10 seconds, I dont think i died often if ever while MOA’d. Add that its 3 mins CD = once in a game, so OP rofl

- Time Warp : 3.5 mins CD, 10 sec haste if people stay inside the aoe … Very powerful but mitigated by very long CD and its only effective in rare stationary fights.

- AoE invis : 90 sec CD for 5 second stealth .. WAOUH !!!

I would trade any of those 3 for something actually useful to my character.

OHhhhhh wait, I would take rogue’s shadow Refuge as Elite skill, even though they have it for free as utility skill : less cooldown, aoe stealthing zone that stays a while huhuhu AND it heals up !!!!

it is not easily predictable, dodgeable, blockable, fumbleable. it is a single target skill. and it has no long casting delay. and if you become moa morph, you can do nothing for 10 seconds. you can’t use any skill. you will die in few seconds if you can’t use any heal or protection skills. you may not die, if there are your team and other enemies fight other guys. but in fighting, if you are main tanker, and you become moa and can do nothing for 10 seconds, all your team will die. that you can do nothing for 10 seconds in tournament means you will die soon. and you become moa, enemies will chase you and will not stop killing you. because it is a biggest chance to kill an enemy.

CeCaKonVeu.5734:

I play mesmer. I am not OP. I know how to play. Our elites are not OP. You need to learn to play.

Your input is appreciated.

Asmodean.5820:

Moa single-handedly kills a necro minion spec because it despawns all minions and triggers the cd also the elite one plus cancels all elite forms and gives you a free go on the necro. Also in group fights it is simply deadly because you can focus on one while ignoring the other.

Canceling out the elite forms of other players is the best way to use it imo, and trading an elite for an elite seems pretty fair.

For minion specced necros (and mantra mesmers), yeah, that is pretty unfair. It’s also unfair that you have to have the same utilities underwater or the same thing will happen. Imo it’s a problem that needs to be fixed in general, not just for moa morph.

I don’t think the problem is that mesmer elites are too good, I think it’s that most elite skills in the game aren’t actually very good. And even on a mesmer I would gladly trade that elite slot for a 4th utility slot in a heartbeat.

I don’t always Moa but when I do it’s because you used your elite in a 1v1 first…..like a scrub =P

Moa is really easy to dodge, especially on all races. Rats don’t count. If dodged, moa goes on 3 min cd so there is no need to worry becoming useless. You just need to worry about everything else the mesmer can do.

Yes, Moa Morph is the single most unique elite in the game because it has a cooldown, casting time, and it can be evaded.

Look at all elite skills please then tell us how many elites have 3 seconds of stationary casting time …

Moa’s not really that strong. Sure 10s is a little long but it’s not over the top, I think it should be 8s. Where Moa is annoying/borderline op is countering other classes elite. Necro’s, guardians and others who use transform elites know this well.

For people who think time warp is not good should try out other classes elites. Gladly trade my elemental or my supply crate for time warp. Not that they are not good but time warp is a whole other tier of elite.

CeCaKonVeu.5734:

Look at all elite skills please then tell us how many elites have 3 seconds of stationary casting time …

Tornado got 2-3s casting time, very easy to interrupt because ele compared to mesmer hasn’t got clones to confuse the enemy or stealth to cover their steps.

After being successful in casting tornado, you get killed even more easily because:

1) You do 2/4 of your already average dmg ( 700 dmg for hit at 2k power)
2) You move 1/4 as fast ( people can run circles around you and never be caught)
3) You cannot heal or use utilities

plz QQ a lil more about moa because its not on every forum. no one cares about engineers insane knockbacks but a bird u can dodge with!!! o.0 gasp unheard of!

pknight.9580:

plz QQ a lil more about moa because its not on every forum. no one cares about engineers insane knockbacks but a bird u can dodge with!!! o.0 gasp unheard of!

Engineers don’t go stealth and start channeling their freaking elite, also a knockback doesn’t guarantee your death on the contrary of MoA form, which is a guaranted kill when used during team fights…pls defend more your OP profession, it’s no like Anet bother anyway

What can I say … if you as mesmer need Moa, then you are a bad mesmer. Speaking as a mesmer, who got so horribly tired of the boring phantasm-spamming.
You don’t realize how strong mesmers are, unless you start playing fx a necro or ele.

Even better: As a mesmer you can pull some insane stats, which some classes can only dream of … even with traits being scattered in a weird way.

Just saying: If you think mesmers are fine … you should start playing other classes more and dig into the various builds on a serious level. There are far more facets to why mesmers are good, than I can write up here. And yeah: a lot of ppl still have no idea how to counter a mesmer.

You obviously havent played much or not a mesmer lol.
You can staff 2 all you want (thats if not on CD cause staff 2 is used for more important stuff but whatever stay clueless noob)… After staff 2 you stillstand there weaving your MOA skill animation and u do get interupted if ur not facing random noobs like you

Thx. And dont pick 1 word and make it sound outside of the full sentence. I never said MOA is weak, but its FOR SURE not OP Rofl. It can be frustrating but all mesmer is frustrating so deal with it

There are more important stuff than taking someone out of the fight for 10 seconds with no removal options?

Reading comprehension ???
“After staff 2 you stillstand there weaving your MOA skill animation and u do get interupted if ur not facing random noobs like you”

Now for noobies, u use 2 on staff when u want to switch spot with a clone, the point of doing this is ?
No clue ????
Get away from assist chain or people focusing you .. Hence u dont want to waste ur trick by immediately saying outloud "hey this thing u are hitting is my clone look im RIGHT behind him trying to channel a skill :p

More important as in, a well used 2 is as good as stealth so yes again u dont want to waste it for MOA casting. Because if u dont mess it up u wont need MOA to begin with.

I point out game flaws or what appears game flaws to me…

You can disagree but you should think a little outside of the box instead of taking 2 words out of context.

L2P it helps so u would stop complaining about MOA or other stuff …
Many things are out of the wack…
But everyone complain about MOA which is not that good..
Yes it can be an easy win versus a noob glass cannon, but other than that its bullkitten

You dont have to believe me but i almost never slot MOA cause i never have to use it anyway when slotted.

Really first time u play mesmer u use MOA and its awesome to protect ur noob kitten Once u play a little more u use mesmer skills which basically make MOA unneeded.

My 2 cents.

Oh and FYI i play mesmer as main but really often I play necro too and sometimes rogue or guardian.

Only class i have yet to test is engineer

Thank you for proving the point of the thread to everyone.
Mesmer elites are all substantially better than most other classes elites, and they don’t even need to use them.

yes actually you are right, mesmers are so unbeatable that we dont really use utilities or elites, just hang there spamming clones and watching the 4 dmg spam :p

At least try to be constructive or funny … u are dispointing troller

Half the duration and 2min cooldown, fixed.

The only reason moa is op is because you can baiscly be killed within its duration

dan.3618:

Half the duration and half the cooldown, fixed.

The only reason moa is op is because you can baiscly be killed within its duration

Running away helps. Chasing makes its harder to kill you. I see so many people that just stand there.

im a lvl 65 mesmer i have played since beta i honestly have no idea what im supposed to do or be but and i say this from a limited pvp experience so please no bashing.
my mesmer is a duel mesmer my blurred frenzy is op and i love it. also ive never used moa seems too much like the warlock in some other mmo. honestly i prefer my balthazar hounds over 10 sec speed as they are extra meat shield and massive aoe damage dealers
when i do my job right i can lay into anything like a tank and underwater im nigh unstoppable

jokermo.3058:

im a lvl 65 mesmer i have played since beta i honestly have no idea what im supposed to do or be but and i say this from a limited pvp experience so please no bashing.
my mesmer is a duel mesmer my blurred frenzy is op and i love it. also ive never used moa seems too much like the warlock in some other mmo. honestly i prefer my balthazar hounds over 10 sec speed as they are extra meat shield and massive aoe damage dealers
when i do my job right i can lay into anything like a tank and underwater im nigh unstoppable

Most people that complain about mesmer, are talking about PVP in some way (usually sPVP and tPVP). Most just want an “I win” button (which I like to call the Yes on the confirmation screen for uninstallation). Downside to WvW is you don’t really know if that player you just beat is a lvl 10 player or a skilled lvl 80 player. Its why you don’t see much people complaining about classes in WVW as to be honest..in WvW you should be running with a zerg group and getting caught alone is on the player.

Asmodean.5820:

- Moa: cast it after staff 2 or simply vanishing and relocate. Your opponent won’t have a chance to react to the spell.
Moa single-handedly kills a necro minion spec because it despawns all minions and triggers the cd also the elite one plus cancels all elite forms and gives you a free go on the necro. Also in group fights it is simply deadly because you can focus on one while ignoring the other.

Amusing how some mesmer players even call it mediocre…would you like to have a class with a spell against you which puts all your utility spells on cd, stops your minion production and cancels your elite skill? I guess so, after all it is mediocre…

Shall we mention that your flesh golum is on a one minute cooldown? Not to mention will do more damage over that period of time than Moa, which does no damage at all?

Your Golum also bypasses all normal PvP AI checks and goes directly for me unless I blow a sealth cooldown.

- Oh yeah, in a group fight your can only give your group a massive edge over the other once every 3.5 min and basically giving them the ability to roll over the enemy. Pretty bad…yeah

You know, unlike any other quickness ability, Time Warp has a MASSIVE tell by creating this gigantic purple dome over the area where quickness is in effect. Quickness does NOT take effect outside this bubble. Instead of trying to grunt through it, you can, you know, leave the area, fight outside the bubble, and return 10 seconds later. Just watch out for ranged.

“I would trade any of those 3 for something actually useful to my character.”
When I read such a comment I wonder if you are either a hypocrit, the worst player on the world or just an ****.

Aww, tell us how you really feel.

The point of the matter is, Time Warp and Moa both have massive cooldowns that I just don’t feel are good enough to justify.

Ok, so we won ONE teamfight. Cool. I’ll get maybe 2 uses out of Time Warp in an entire sPvP match. Chanses are if my team was relying on that teamfight to win against you guys, we’re going to lose consistently over the next three and a half minutes.

With the exception of Mass Invisiblity, I have to be incredibly choosy about my elites for it to be of any significant use to a match.

And while you find the perspective of a Mesmer amusing, I find it equally amusing that the people who complain the most about Mesmer’s Ults are Necromancers.

I think your essential problem has less to do with Mesmer, and more to do with how easily your pets are dispelled. We have the same problem with our mantras. This isn’t a problem with Moa either, it happens for us every time we go in and out of water.

Having played Necro abit, I think the problem lies more with how there seems to be no memory surrounding around changed states. Either your pets should stay alive when Moaed, or should return when you come back. Same for Mantras.

A lot of the flack people are giving these classes, Guardian, Thief, Mesmer. Is that they’re flashy jobs. Thief steals the show by having such high burst. Guardian, has a lot of defensive abilities that counter burst, and Mesmers have a lot of deception tools that make them seem so poweful and invinceable.

Yet, there are so many powerful class builds here that serve as counters that are being overlooked because they don’t have these bells and whistles that make you go “Oh crap, here’s an Engineer!” But they’re just as powerful, and many times serve as counters to the classes you hate so desperately.

i honestly feel they have given me all the tools i need to do well
maybe some of the skills could use some refining but the ability to go from tank to support is nice
you can fit your character to how you wish to play not the other way around

Rifts did it for 30 seconds until damaged

http://rift.zam.com/en/ability.html?riftability=761434721

30 seconds.

Not a single complaint on it.

However I prefer having it ten seconds lasting through damage, they are both equally as decent.

Now, if you want to reduce the time it has, I would rather have it be a 5 second stun. Then you will really see why it is nothing like being stunned for ten seconds (which is a common arguement).

Actually rifts design was pretty terrible for this skill, it was mainly used by me for a TWO SECOND CAST interrupt because the way it is intended to function as a timeout for a player to run to safety then come back into battle was always broken by damage in battle, in gw2 you ahve tons of aoe so that would be really bad. A stun isn’t so much of a timeout from battle as it is "you will stand in this one spot, and take all the damage we can throw at you, and you will enjoy it.) If there is a breaking on damage the only use for morph becomes in 1v1 positions when you are being chased and you just morph him for 30 seconds, however in rift you couldn’t run around with that morph and had to watch your squirrel run in circles, there was complaint but it wasn’t a forum wide cry-fest.

And that was only rank one, I coulda swore that duration went to 45 second then a minute.

I haven’t used Moa in over a 2 weeks now. The few times I have been moa ive maybe died 20% of them?

Maybe I’ve play different games and am experience enough to realize that the cost vs efficiency isnt that great. I have to use a 3 minute cool down to take someone out of a fight for 10 seconds, also noting that a kill on the morphed person is not guaranteed seeeing as they can still run and dodge.

Hopefully one day when people realize they arent going to nerf every single thing, but I guess everyone is a master of their class and know 100% everything that gives them trouble is OP. Yup. Atleast give anet time to fix traits and bugs before wanting to nerf the kitten outta every skill.

Just want to say I’m another person that has been moa’d and I can’t recall dying while in it and I play a staff elementalist, my survivability depends on me being able to swap attunements and use my utilities. There doesn’t seem to be an issue with moa morph, in my and many others’ opinions.

One thing I didn’t read about time warp is that leaving the area when it is cast directly on a point means losing that point, but you only need to leave it long enough for enemy melee to walk out of it and lose their quickness or do the not-that-difficult task of kiting on the point.

@R E F L H E X.8413

Transmogrify was not 30 seconds in PvP, all cc was capped at 8s and cc in that game had diminishing returns. Bringing it up and comparing it with Moa is pretty unreasonable. There were also a lot of complaints about it too.

Basically FOTM kids play mesmer and tell other to l2p…while not being able to play anything else except mesmer themself…
So they’ll come up with fantastic stories to justify their broken profession, hoping Anet won’t nerf them, but the truth is..Anet will nerf mesmers soon or later anyway

I have to reverse my statement … at least about elementalists. I am not saying everything is fine, but I for sure have realized, that there is far more to the class, than I had realized. And realizing that about elementalists, made me think again about necro’s.

I do however still think, that you can pull out some scary stats on a mesmer, and I was basically falling off my chair when I saw the stats on my elementalist. But it works.

Thief’s Guild! That’s most ridiculous skill, guaranteed kill.

Moa IS ridiculous. The duration is absolutely too long in my opinion. Any mesmer who can carry his weight will kill you during it. I suggest halving the duration AND the cooldown on it to make it less rage inducing.

Time warp was just a bad idea. Instant leg up in a group fight. Usually the first fight mid or to secure forest boss ganks, or even GANK the guild lord. I don’t think the cooldown is long enough for how good it is. IMO it should be once per game or some crap… Absolutely too good. Time warp, enemies die.

Very good elites. They shine a lot harder than some other classes like ele and necro who suffer from garbage elites. Necro should lose plague form for something more threatening IMO. Or maybe make it so you can use utilities while transformed. This would make all the different elite forms much more viable.

Any mesmer can kill you during 10 seconds while you are running away and dodging? Bull.

I am currently using a glass cannon mesmer build, but it feels like a glass arrowcart. Unless you are a glass cannon yourself, I’d be struggling to kill you in 10 seconds even if you stood still. Lets bring in moving and the ability to dodge, and you can outlive that.
Besides, if you have a squishy build, maybe the problem is not the Moa but your build?

@Erushii
If you can’t kill someone who’s been Moa’d as a glass cannon mesmer then the problem is with you. 2 dodges isn’t enough when you can’t do anything for 10 seconds. My bunker guardian can handle 2 or 3 people for a reasonable amount of time, but when she’s Moa’d she’s butter on a hot sidewalk. You lost all cred when you mentioned your mesmer in an anti mesmer elite thread.

Mesmer elites are totally overtuned compared to elites other classes have (except MAYBE thieves guild…). There is just no arguing it. Whenever someone does it just shows they have no perspective at all.

Yeah sure. Oh wait, no. Both tomes on Guardians > Moa

Thieve’s guild / Stone Wall > Moa (guaranteed backstab without even goin in stealth)

Ranger’s root > Moa

Supply Crate > Moa

You basically chose the Moa to “put out someone” out of the fight for 10 seconds. Right, as soon as someone is gettin transformed, the whole team come back on him, use tools, while the guy under the moa effect can still use 2 dodges and be affected by all the boons of his mates.

So yeah just wake up maybe

I am utterly amazed you were able to say Moa is weaker than Supply Crate or Binding Roots with a straight face.

Just remove all elite skills from spvp. Failing that, remove rune of lyssa set from spvp as it’s clearly imbalanced when some professions have access to 36 second cooldown elites while others 120 seconds at best. I do see a few thieves using it and it’s not exactly game breaking but it is imbalanced in principal.

Aelona.8572:

Yeah sure. Oh wait, no. Both tomes on Guardians > Moa

Thieve’s guild / Stone Wall > Moa (guaranteed backstab without even goin in stealth)

Ranger’s root > Moa

Supply Crate > Moa

You basically chose the Moa to “put out someone” out of the fight for 10 seconds. Right, as soon as someone is gettin transformed, the whole team come back on him, use tools, while the guy under the moa effect can still use 2 dodges and be affected by all the boons of his mates.

So yeah just wake up maybe

It’s not just moa. time warp is even more overtuned.

mesmer have not one but two overtuned elites. compared to most classes which have none. even thieves and guardians have only one elite that is particularly powerful.

A newb

let’s compare moa morph (10 seconds is fu***** OP. this skill never miss target.)

Actually, it has a 3 second cast time, with a very obvious animation (hands raised in the air like they just don’t care). You can interrupt them during this cast to give it a 6 sec cooldown (I believe if you interrupt with a daze it’ll also trigger cooldown for some other abilities as well, at least according to my mesmer friend).
Either that, or you can simply count the seconds and dodge roll at the last second and laugh at their 180 sec cooldown that did nothing.

PS: I don’t play Mesmer, I play Necromancer.

8 out of 10 times that i am moa’ed i found that i survived it pretty easily.

.It takes about 3/4 seconds to cast
.locks the caster in place for the duration
.it can be dodged ,blocked by a shield or blocked by a active/passive buff
.the one afflicted by it keeps all his boons – buffs
.You can dodge while afflicted by it
.has one of the longest cooldowns (timewarp is longer)

I made a mesmer the day before yesterday (my 6th toon yaay) im using a staff, sword, pistol atm. a nice build works nicely in 1v1 and group play , i tired a few builds so far but i have yet to kill someone who i have moa’ed all by myself during those 10 seconds.

I cannot edit my post again (this needs to be fixed Aneeet!!1)

Sgtsarcasm mentions that it gets a 6 second cd if it is interrupted. I don’t know if this is a bug but so far whenever mine got interrupted i get the full 180 seconds CD.

Everytime I get moa’d i’m happy. I know that the Mesmer is bad and doesn’t use AE quickness, which is just broken as hell.