Guild Wars 2

Wallach.7291:

jcbroe.4329:

I’m just curious what changed this patch to make rangers got from tier B+ all the way up to tier S for some people.
Since the builds haven’t changed AT ALL. The only class that changed was ele really. So on the tiering list (posted by the OP), the ele should move down to A, and logically, rangers remain at B+, because NOTHING has changed since then, not even increased effectiveness (they are equally as effective as they were).

I wouldn’t say that. The signet changes made BM builds a bit better than they were previously. Still, it’s not enough to really change their placement since it’s a role they were already going great at while none of the other roles got any meaningful changes. They aren’t capable of doing anything new, even build-wise.

But again, how does that matter? Most of the signets aren’t being used for their actives still, and the passive effects weren’t changed. So unless we are talking about a build other than the standard 0/0/30/10/30 setup with Shamans, I am honestly not too sure how the signet changes have effected that particular build.

There are certainly other builds out there, but I wouldn’t say that they are common.

Rvb.8297:

only signet that got better was the stone one (why would you activate signet of renewal, pets are too stupid to really benefit from 25% more dmg and that shout sick em is much better if you wanna use this skill for his active part), other classes got signet buffs aswell… so this is can not be the reason why rangers are so ‘OP’ now

The Signet of the Wild change is decent because the CD got cut in half but the duration did not, so there’s a clear gain there. I wouldn’t run Sic’ Em over this, not just because of the bugs that cancel Sic’ Em early but because the passive of Wild is also really good.

These kinds of things aren’t responsible for some kind of massive gain in power but I think there’s clearly more people trying BM just due to the visibility of the changes. It’s always been a wicked strong 1v1 build. Why people suddenly think 1v1 power means they are “S tier” when it hasn’t done any wonders for their rank in the past four months is beyond me.

Guys, you should play ranger before putting it hight tier, nothing changed on the BM build i was playing a month ago and sundunly i’m tier S.
Nice but still, pets are dumb, only do damage to the ones not kitting (low ranks), still half of them have F2 that do not hit or you have to hit 10 time your key for it to go, because players are smart enough in Tpvp to kite.

I’m glad to see more rangers in game but get this “nothing changed”, so why would I be OP now and not before then? i’m really curious.

Didn’t know sick em had that many bugs, never used it and never thought it deserved a place on my bar, but yeah activating the signet of renewal got buffed a bit, which i’d prolly never do….

Its prolly getting the S rank becoz loads of pve ‘nubs’ ( sorry to say this,but this is true) are playing spvp now aswell, since daily was so easy to achieve. I like the changed daily pvp, it takes longer than 5 min to get it now…
Most of these players are so bad i guess even bad rangers can kill them…

Tier S:
Ranger

Tier A
Mesmer +
Guardian
Engineer

Tier B
Ele+
Necro+
Thief+

Tier C
Ranger Pet

Tier Warrior
Warrior

offence.4726:

Lol at these charts how misguided. It’s Mesmer > the rest | get your facts right boyz.

Except that its not. Ask anybody in the top 50 of the leaderboards and they will tell you 100% mesmers are not the strongest class. In fact im not even rated that highly and I know that.

It might also be worth noting how many viable builds a class has in it’s given tier, since that also speaks a lot about where balance currently is.

Wanna.7153:

Guys, you should play ranger before putting it hight tier, nothing changed on the BM build i was playing a month ago and sundunly i’m tier S.
Nice but still, pets are dumb, only do damage to the ones not kitting (low ranks), still half of them have F2 that do not hit or you have to hit 10 time your key for it to go, because players are smart enough in Tpvp to kite.

I’m glad to see more rangers in game but get this “nothing changed”, so why would I be OP now and not before then? i’m really curious.

The pets doing more damage (shorter activation times) and being more tanky is a buff. The dps pets weren’t a threat before because they were so easy to kill. You guys must not run with a decent team in Tpvp because anyone that does knows that a big part of the game is control. Whereas a player used to just blow the ranger pet up while he was immobilized or whatever, that’s no longer the case. Say whatever you want to defend your class, but at least be honest and acknowledge the fact that they did get buffed and are stronger. Pets can do decent damage to a good player if your team sets you up for that situation. This game is about group play and rangers shine just a little too brightly in group situations currently. It isn’t hugely overpowered but it does need a very slight modification because, as is, Rangers are too rewarding for nothing. Just compare a ranger’s auto attack (talking about short bow here especially) to any other ranged auto attack in the game. Then notice that the pet is also attacking (although not hitting 100% up time) and you’ll see that even a bad player can do some serious damage if not dealt with appropriately. The fact that a ranger is now the biggest offensive threat to a team fight and must be focused on or controlled before almost any other target is what makes him OP.

I know everyone’s getting a little passionate regarding reasons why classes are doing well / not. But for the sake of the thread please do your best not to derail the conversation or the inherent goal that the thread is trying to achieve.

Thanks!

nobody’s using sb in a bm build.
trapper build got slightly better with increased survivability on pets.
and regarding mesmer – they still feel kinda mandatory in a setup because of what they bring for organized play.
to make assumptions balance wise it’s still to early imo.

After latest patch here’s mine (I play as a warrior):
Tier S:
Ranger (regenerate limbs, fill you with holes or do melee better than melee)

Tier A
engie (A lot of them seem to be immune to all my CC now (stability/immobilize) which makes it hard)
guardian (Guardians just give me trouble as a condi warrior)
ele (I can catch them now. Still rough fights)

Tier B
mesmer (confusion nerf has made it easy)
thief (dodge around a lot, not really anything more.)
necro (piece of cake)

Tier C
Group of thieves (the thief elite)
Ranger pets

Tier D

Tier E
Warriors. (can do a little more surviving but still not enough healing and toughness for a melee class)

Tier F
now vacant

Tier A
rangers pet
Tier B
ranger
Tier C
other classes
Tier D
Necro, War…..

S (vacant, it’s too build-based and temporary to give fair judgement, even Ranger could land here)
A+ Elementalist
A/A- (undecided) Mesmer
A- Ranger
B+ Guardian
B/B+ (undecided) Engineer
B Thief
B/B- (undecided) Necromancer
C Warrior

PS. Anything lower than tier C seems totally redundant

Can someone post the Ranger build that’s catapulted them to top rank? KTHXBYE

Everyone thinks Ele and Mesmers are the best..they are not. Just learn how to fight them. This is my opinion of the tier list. (1 being the best to 8 being the worst). I’m not biased on this list and I’m judging it through my experience (rank 40, champion paragon and legionnaire)

1. Ranger
2. Engineer
3. Mesmer
4. Necromancer
5. Guardian
6. Thief
7. Elementalist
8. Warrior

Ranger has not changed at all since the update asides from tankier pets. Other classes were just made weaker. Ranger is far from OP.

I’m not saying any class is OP, I’m just creating this list through my experience of 1v1s.

A: Guardian, Ranger, Ele
B:Mesmer(could be A), Engi(could be A), Necro(Could be C)
C:Thief(could be B ), Warrior(Could still use survivability buffs)

However I feel lots of classes can end up in the S category if built and played right, I just think for most people+little bit of google, will put you effectively in these tiers. The biggest threats imo when played right are actually, Engi, Necro and Ranger, usually Necro and Ranger being the easier of the 3 to actually seem OP. All this defending by rangers for rangers is bull and they dont want a nerf to their OP condi/bunker build that hits like a truck and allows them to run if they get overwhelmed. Necro has strong conditions and can be a very strong bunker to the points where I dont ever choose to face one 1v1.

I’d say ranger is the top 1v1r now, and that’s why it’s getting the S votes.

offence.4726:

Lol at these charts how misguided. It’s Mesmer > the rest | get your facts right boyz.

Guess what? I already play mesmer and just made a brand new ranger some days ago…now i can go bunker while sending pets for 5k+ crits, and it’s so relaxing….but hey mesmer is so top tier, funny thing is that many of them drop like rocks when i face one with my 4-5 days experience on ranger, and believe me…it’s not because i’m so amazing, sometimes i find myself just spamming random stuff and still facerolling ppl with ranger….or more precisely i find myself spamming random things (Or just letting autoattack go) while my pets facerolls ppl…F2….F4…F2..heal if needed, rinse and repeat…nothing more than that, and now there’s spirit watch too <3 lol

haha I love how people are putting ranger pets as a whole class, brilliant. They are a bit over the top..

Skelemiere.3094:

Everyone thinks Ele and Mesmers are the best..they are not. Just learn how to fight them. This is my opinion of the tier list. (1 being the best to 8 being the worst). I’m not biased on this list and I’m judging it through my experience (rank 40, champion paragon and legionnaire)

1. Ranger
2. Engineer
3. Mesmer
4. Necromancer
5. Guardian
6. Thief
7. Elementalist
8. Warrior

I guess coming from a Guardian perspective this could make sense. Do you really rank Necro Higher than Guardian and Ele?

Still no ranger build?

Next upcoming nerf: Ranger and Thief.. Note, this is simple my fortune in the next patch based on other people complaining. Me, personally play these two classes. They are not Op in my opinion. I can defeat a BM Ranger with my Phantasm Berserk Build or come very close the good one, same with thief.

Stealth.9324:

Next upcoming nerf: Ranger and Thief.. Note, this is simple my fortune in the next patch based on other people complaining. Me, personally play these two classes. They are not Op in my opinion. I can defeat a BM Ranger with my Phantasm Berserk Build or come very close the good one, same with thief.

I think Engi will get another nerf to grenades. They just kitten teams without boon removal.

Btw in tpvp imo

1. Ranger + his pet
2. Guardian
3. Ele – Mesmer – Engi – Ranger’s Pet (Alone)
4. Necro – Ranger (Without pet)
5. Thief
6. Warrior

Going to update the list now. Any additional lists will be pushed to the next iteration.

List is now updated on the OP. Previous list preserved for comparison.

A couple user submitted lists that were posted for this iteration were omitted due to not following the required format.

Things to take away from the new list:

-Meteoric rise of rangers.
-Warriors perception / usefulness has improved but not yet on-par with other classes. (this is a step in the right direction. Thank you ArenaNet for your help!).
-Ele’s took a slight hit.

Personally I believe this patch was a great first step towards true balance.

I may even consider giving GW2 another shot in a couple/few months if they can keep up balance patches like this one.

I really don’t get it, why ranger should suddenly by tier S. Yes the last patch buffed the ranger pet, but the damage pets were only very slightly buffed. The bears got the greatest buff, but nobody uses them in pvp. All other things remained unchanged.
Any yes the ranger is very strong in 1 vs 1, but in x vs 1 there are much stronger classes and ranger doesn’t bring much group utility.
The other point is, its still fun to fight against a ranger or any other class except thief and messmer. And in spvp there are still 50% thiefs; must be a reason for that.
They are not op, but their stupid mechanic is not fun to play against. In my opinion:
1. Mesmer
2. Guardian
3. Ranger, Engineer, Thief, Ele
4. Necro
5. Warrior

I hotjoin sPvP with my Mesmer – I’m just your average casual fish, but maybe my input will be interesting to down to earth people like me.

Before that, I must honestly say that I never yet had a completely hopeless encounter, I’d say the balance from my PoV is pretty in a good spot and most of professions are not that far from each other.

Here is my list:

S-tier: NONE – really, no profession there that is consistently amazing all the time.

A-tier:

+Mesmer (Amazing in dueling and 5v5’s, can disengage and burst almost as well as thieves, but unlike thieves they can effectively defend and attack at the same time.)
=Elementalist (Bunker ones are virtually unkillable solo unless they insist on staying in a fight to the end, otherwise, they can just drag you around forever if they decide to run, they are also kitten good at taking out illusions.)
=Thief (You can’t catch the good ones and they are very dangerous in small team fights, they can burst down wounded guys in 3 seconds flat without much warning)

Tier B

=Guardian (Bunker ones are tough to bring down, but can’t really kill you either, they are a royal pain in the kitten in team fights though. DEEPS ones are somewhat easy – they rely on a couple of bursty skills – dodge those and you are golden.)
=Engineer (so-so, they seem to get better the longer the fight goes, thus they are pretty weak to strong offense early on)
-Necro (They can be tough, but they seem to have a really hard time with direct damage bursts and burst condition removal)
-Ranger (I honestly have no idea why everyone sticks then in S-tier, maybe I never met a good one yet.)
-Warrior (I don’t think they are THAT horrible, they are generally easy, but if you wasted your stun breaker CD’s before they can be extremely dangerous. But yeah, all in all, I’d say they are really weak as a whole, just too easy to kite and peel… they are also very predictable in what they do.)

In WvW, I’d bump Mesmers to S-tier= and Thieves to A=

Even after the resent nerf, Mesmer in WvW is often a game changer. Portal, Veil and Time Warp/Mass Invisibility are just amazing, Feedback is also pretty strong.

Thieves on the other hand are less useful in mass action, but they are perfect predators when it comes to roaming, IMO.

FupaVirus.1502:

The pets doing more damage (shorter activation times)

Eh, what? A shorter activation times = more damage? It’s still the same amount of damage dealt within the cooldown of the skill. This claim = fail.

FupaVirus.1502:

The dps pets weren’t a threat before because they were so easy to kill. You guys must not run with a decent team in Tpvp because anyone that does knows that a big part of the game is control. Whereas a player used to just blow the ranger pet up while he was immobilized or whatever, that’s no longer the case.

Let’s take a look at the popular jaguar, which would be classified as a dps pet. The jaguar belongs to the family of cats. Cats got NO increase in armor, and got a whopping increase in health from 13,000 to 14,868, an increase in health by 1,868 points. Wow, just wow. I understand that they are unkillable now, I really do… (sarcasm).
This claim = fail.

FupaVirus.1502:

Rangers are too rewarding for nothing

For nothing? This claim is insulting

FupaVirus.1502:

The fact that a ranger is now the biggest offensive threat to a team fight and must be focused on or controlled before almost any other target is what makes him OP.

That is NOT a fact, that’s your extremely biased view of things. You’d rather see the ranger class so kitten that they can be ignored completly, and a free kill to cash in as soon as you see one.

FupaVirus.1502:

Say whatever you want to defend your class, but at least be honest and acknowledge the fact that they did get buffed and are stronger.

They got an increase to health and/or armor across the board, yes. They did not get an increase to damage dealt.

Rangers are already somewhat OP. Especially with their downed shenanigans.

OGDeadHead.8326:

FupaVirus.1502:

The pets doing more damage (shorter activation times)

Eh, what? A shorter activation times = more damage? It’s still the same amount of damage dealt within the cooldown of the skill. This claim = fail.

FupaVirus.1502:

The dps pets weren’t a threat before because they were so easy to kill. You guys must not run with a decent team in Tpvp because anyone that does knows that a big part of the game is control. Whereas a player used to just blow the ranger pet up while he was immobilized or whatever, that’s no longer the case.

Let’s take a look at the popular jaguar, which would be classified as a dps pet. The jaguar belongs to the family of cats. Cats got NO increase in armor, and got a whopping increase in health from 13,000 to 14,868, an increase in health by 1,868 points. Wow, just wow. I understand that they are unkillable now, I really do… (sarcasm).
This claim = fail.

FupaVirus.1502:

Rangers are too rewarding for nothing

For nothing? This claim is insulting

FupaVirus.1502:

The fact that a ranger is now the biggest offensive threat to a team fight and must be focused on or controlled before almost any other target is what makes him OP.

That is NOT a fact, that’s your extremely biased view of things. You’d rather see the ranger class so kitten that they can be ignored completly, and a free kill to cash in as soon as you see one.

FupaVirus.1502:

Say whatever you want to defend your class, but at least be honest and acknowledge the fact that they did get buffed and are stronger.

They got an increase to health and/or armor across the board, yes. They did not get an increase to damage dealt.

Faster activation times= more DPS and overall damage, not damage with that single attack. Claim is not false. Your thinking is just too narrow-minded.

Cats got a small increase in their base hp, which equated to a noticeable increase in their survivability as their base stats are increased by percentage through traits.

Rangers are currently too rewarding. There is a reason why most people rank them in the S tier.

The HUGE influx of rangers into Tpvp and their current rise to the highest tier attest to the fact that most people, at least most people offering their opinions here, agree that rangers are now the biggest threat to a tourney group. That is the reason why they are now S tier, correct?

Nerf Wars 2 – Final Act- ‘The Ranger’

Starring :
Gw2 Community

Special guest:
Anet Devs

August 27th In all cinemas

Not sure why everyone’s proclaiming Ranger as the new master race, a sentiment that many here seem to share with me. Their pets were buffed… slightly. Sure.

Maybe the simple fact that they got some much-needed love and attention, and the fact that their pets no longer die to cleave as often, have something to do with this.

There’s a really simple solution to this xD just kill the pets. DPS one down to low health, then focus/spike the other. It doesn’t take too long at all, assuming the Ranger isn’t running Signet of Stone, in which case it’d take approximately 6 seconds longer. A fair amount, but not gamebreaking.

After killing the second pet, you have a 60-second window in which the Ranger is fairly useless. With the proper boon removal (any Mesmer) and spike damage (also any Mesmer), you can make short work of a Ranger.

As far as the tiers go:

S: Guardian, Mesmer, Elementalist, Ranger

The most powerful, most-usable classes.

A: Necromancer, Engineer

Seeing a lot of play, but not so widely or effectively as the S-tier classes.

B: Thief

Doesn’t see enough tournament play.

C: Warrior

Still perma-bad. Needs lovin’.

This is a 5v5 team-based game and tier lists are completely unnecessary. This thread is pointless.

FupaVirus.1502:

OGDeadHead.8326:

FupaVirus.1502:

The pets doing more damage (shorter activation times)

Eh, what? A shorter activation times = more damage? It’s still the same amount of damage dealt within the cooldown of the skill. This claim = fail.

FupaVirus.1502:

The dps pets weren’t a threat before because they were so easy to kill. You guys must not run with a decent team in Tpvp because anyone that does knows that a big part of the game is control. Whereas a player used to just blow the ranger pet up while he was immobilized or whatever, that’s no longer the case.

Let’s take a look at the popular jaguar, which would be classified as a dps pet. The jaguar belongs to the family of cats. Cats got NO increase in armor, and got a whopping increase in health from 13,000 to 14,868, an increase in health by 1,868 points. Wow, just wow. I understand that they are unkillable now, I really do… (sarcasm).
This claim = fail.

FupaVirus.1502:

Rangers are too rewarding for nothing

For nothing? This claim is insulting

FupaVirus.1502:

The fact that a ranger is now the biggest offensive threat to a team fight and must be focused on or controlled before almost any other target is what makes him OP.

That is NOT a fact, that’s your extremely biased view of things. You’d rather see the ranger class so kitten that they can be ignored completly, and a free kill to cash in as soon as you see one.

FupaVirus.1502:

Say whatever you want to defend your class, but at least be honest and acknowledge the fact that they did get buffed and are stronger.

They got an increase to health and/or armor across the board, yes. They did not get an increase to damage dealt.

Faster activation times= more DPS and overall damage, not damage with that single attack. Claim is not false. Your thinking is just too narrow-minded.

Cats got a small increase in their base hp, which equated to a noticeable increase in their survivability as their base stats are increased by percentage through traits.

Rangers are currently too rewarding. There is a reason why most people rank them in the S tier.

The HUGE influx of rangers into Tpvp and their current rise to the highest tier attest to the fact that most people, at least most people offering their opinions here, agree that rangers are now the biggest threat to a tourney group. That is the reason why they are now S tier, correct?

I’m sorry but the bolded part is extremely inaccurate. Activation time refers to how quickly it takes for the pet to prepare to use the skill. It does not increase the speed at which the attack is performed, and it does not decrease cooldown. The only thing it did was make the skills more responsive really. Pets before rooted themselves and performed upwards of 3s time frames where they would go inactive preparing to use a skill, and were a joke. This is a quality of life improvement.

Secondly, percentage increase? There is no nice way of saying it so I’ll just say it, that is DEAD WRONG. Adding points to beastmasters adds literally 350 point to every stat at max. That is not a percentage, that is linear increase. The equivalent of adding 350 power/precision/toughness/vitality.

I really have no idea where you’re getting this from, as these are huge misconceptions about the class.

The pet leash range in spirit watch is right now my biggest pet peeve in the game, ive seen rangers at the side nodes while there pets killing people at orb.

The ranger is a very mediocre pve class with a more pvp oriented skill set.

It has a lot of good survivability options(evasion, strong endurance, automated defensive boons, pet etc.) combined with a moderately good offense that doesn’t do much in the way of spike damage. The shortbow’s 1 slot(crossfire) is only good because it’s ranged, accurate(compare to warrior longbow for instance) and fires every half second. The damage per packet is low but it’s easily sustained and sort of steadily chips away at foes. So yes, through some attrition, rangers are a strong 1v1 class.. however, they don’t have a lot of counters for stealth and have awful sources of stability that simply can’t be relied on.. so if you can hit them, stun locking a ranger is pretty effective.

As for team support, about the only thing it does is keep itself alive while providing a bit of control through short term stuns(never underestimate concussion shot) and the elite skill ‘entangle.’ Sort of like the ranger in GW1 but to a far lesser degree.

I don’t claim to be mr. expert pvper but I can’t help but feel the ranger might be topping lists for a couple of reasons, 1. parroting, people are sheep and 2. a lot of players are losing 1v1s in random hot join fights. Listen folks, 1v1s are not a measurement of a class’s “OPness.” You’re playing a team game in which, player ability equal, someone could simply spec to counter you.. rock paper scissors, build wars.. these terms ring a bell? What matters is not the outcome of your 1v1, it’s the outcome of your team v team.

I can cite numerous occasions when arenanet nerfed a class or skill in gw1 because of some people crying in low end pvp when they could have just figured out the counters(which were sometimes quite easy if you applied yourself, but i digress). Defy pain warriors come to mind.. oh no, the defy pain warrior is stalling out fort aspenwood, nerf nerf nerf ! arenanet: ok.

If the enemies team has 3 rangers(a lot of guild teams use 2 or 3 rangesr at the moment) and you don’t have a ranger(random team) and you lose all the time then it is not balanced.

I understand that it is a team game and you could just take 3 rangers in your own team but not everyone is playing a ranger.

The way the game modes are designed(5 vs. 5 in tournament) it has to be balanced somehow even 1 vs. 1. Of course there is no need to make it that every class is balanced against every other class in 1 vs. 1 but at least 3-4 other classes should be able to win against the class and not making 1 class that strong so he can only be killes by 2 others.

ArenaNet knows this. They wouldn’t have balanced Ele if there was no need to balance.

They could make bigger maps like 16 vs. 16 then 1 or 2 rangers wouldn’t matter and on random teams you would have a better change to get balanced teams in terms of classes.

Or make it so the 5 vs. 5 only accepts teams with max 1 person each class and no 2, 3,4 ranger.

Also you don’t know the enemies builds or classes and as random you don’t know the builds anc classes of your team mates.

This forces ArenaNet to balance everything even 1 vs. 1(if they don’t want to make the team only for premade groups and still give random teams a chance). Also it forces the player to run a allrounder build since going into specialiced builds doesn’t help… if you go bunker and all the others joining have bunker too then you have no one being able to deal damage.

And don’t tell me “you can change classes and builds”. Takes reloading and not everyone is good at every class. And the changing builds in the 1-2 minutes is a pain. Also I don’t think you can change items cause you can’t go back to the mists to buy another item. It always is loading the tournament map(and I’m not taking other stuff with me cause I also play PvE and don’t have much room in my inventory).

What I think what makes the ranger easier: Other classes have to attack AND doge, defend. Ranger can let the pet attack so he does not need to attack and can concentrate on defending(and attack a bit since the pet running after the player won’t get every hit… but still very effective in annoying him and slowing him and stuff). Or he can let the pet defend(if the player is stupid enough wasting his time trying to kill the pet which takes a lot of hits even for the dps pets and if you are class cannon) and attack.

Edit: Also I think guardians are only strong if they play something more like glasscannon or damage build since they can do good damage and still are able to take a ot of damage because of invulnerability skills and stuff to block and heals. If they are “bunker” only you just knock them back or knock them out of the point much faster than there cds on skills to block the knockbacks are.. then you at least uncaptuered the point(and maybe can capture it that way) and they only run around but can’t kill you because of no damage… but that depends on the class. I think someone made lists about “best capper” and stuff and engineer was mentioned at top there and they have good knockback/ launch(few gadgets, rifle and bombs) and AoE grenades and stuff.

Tier S: none

Tier A: Ranger +
Mesmer +
Elementalist=+
Engineer=
Thief=
Guardian=
Necro -
Warrior-
Tier B: none
Tier C: none

Ranger is very map dependent, on legacy its probably an =, on forest it is pushing Tier S grounds with its ability to push far unseen and kill forest creatures.
Pretty balanced overall if you ask me.

Luthan.5236:

If the enemies team has 3 rangers(a lot of guild teams use 2 or 3 rangesr at the moment) and you don’t have a ranger(random team) and you lose all the time then it is not balanced.

I understand that it is a team game and you could just take 3 rangers in your own team but not everyone is playing a ranger.

If you want to win at competitive pvp, why would you choose an inferior team build? Sorry but refusing to play a class because you don’t know it well or because you simply don’t like it won’t help you win any competitive pvp matches. If you want any change you better start exploiting what’s supposedly overpowered so arenanet takes notice.

And don’t tell me “you can change classes and builds”. Takes reloading and not everyone is good at every class. And the changing builds in the 1-2 minutes is a pain. Also I don’t think you can change items cause you can’t go back to the mists to buy another item. It always is loading the tournament map(and I’m not taking other stuff with me cause I also play PvE and don’t have much room in my inventory).

Then how do you expect to counter anything you’re having a problem with? The old adage about the definition of insanity comes to mind.. doing the same thing over and over and achieving the same negative result? At this point you need to change things up. Keep making adjustments, whether that be in your approach or your build or even your class. Don’t say.. “well this is too painful, arenanet come change this.”

What I think what makes the ranger easier: Other classes have to attack AND doge, defend. Ranger can let the pet attack so he does not need to attack and can concentrate on defending(and attack a bit since the pet running after the player won’t get every hit… but still very effective in annoying him and slowing him and stuff). Or he can let the pet defend(if the player is stupid enough wasting his time trying to kill the pet which takes a lot of hits even for the dps pets and if you are class cannon) and attack.

Most every player I encounter on a ranger ignores my pet, because pet AI is inferior and the attack rate is slow. You simply can’t stand there and expect the pet to do the work for you, I assure you this is a very bad strategy. The ranger is intrinsically defensive, so the defensive tactics they use take minimal effort because the class is designed to behave this way. That said.. stealth(arenanet’s folly), evasion, stuns and condition spam are all completely viable counters for rangers of any spec. Not to mention, they lack a little punch offensively. Even if you run glass cannon, the returns are minimal.

Tier S:
-

Tier A:

Ranger +
Messmer =
Engineer =
Elementalist =
Thief =
Guardian -

Tier B:
Warrior =
Necro -

Tier C:

-

mooty.4560:

Then how do you expect to counter anything you’re having a problem with? The old adage about the definition of insanity comes to mind.. doing the same thing over and over and achieving the same negative result? At this point you need to change things up. Keep making adjustments, whether that be in your approach or your build or even your class. Don’t say.. “well this is too painful, arenanet come change this.”

Yeah. But the problem: You change it to a “ranger killer build” and then the next match the enemy team has no rangers… what then? You don’t know before the match. That’s why I hope they’ll make it so you can save builds to makt it easier to switch cause no one is changing every match in the first 1-2 minutes… that’s just boring when you want to play not changing builds every match. Also why did they nerf Ele then? If everyone could just switch to Ele and play Ele if the enemy team has more Ele(or play another class and make an “Ele Killer build”) Then ArenaNet would not need to balance at all.

mooty.4560:

That said.. stealth(arenanet’s folly), evasion, stuns and condition spam are all completely viable counters for rangers of any spec. Not to mention, they lack a little punch offensively. Even if you run glass cannon, the returns are minimal.

Not every class has stealth. So all people should play thief against ranger now? Evasion is limited. Stuns also are limited and usually you need to get close because the skills don’t have 1500 range like his bow. You can ignore the pet run after him and try to get into attack range while he is attacking. Just because he is master at kiting and all the bows have a base range 1200. Even if you dodge all the cripples and stuff it is a pain. And conditions… yeah then you probably would need a condition build and again make build based on team info and use this if the enemy team has a lot of ranger and alwasy changing builds.

I really hope they let us save builds soon in the future.

It’s worrying that so few people in the forums have noticed how strong are hgh engineers lately. They are not midtier at all, imo

Tier Average
Ranger+
Mesmer
Engineer
Guardian
Necro
Ele
Warrior- (yes you heard me)

Tier Below Average
Thief+

Rerroll.9083:

It’s worrying that so few people in the forums have noticed how strong are hgh engineers lately. They are not midtier at all, imo

The nerf to Elixir S and Mistform also hit them quite hard. Also the change to apply burning on crit hinders their ability to spread out those damaging-conditions at least a little bit.
They still wreck up teamfights if remained unfocused tho. But they are pretty easy to kill now…

Instead of focusing on the top (Rangers), I’m more curious about the bottom of these brackets. Warriors have all sorts of PVP problems due to their strength in PVE or whatever, but I’m more interested in why people are ranking Necros, Thieves, Engineers and Guardians usually just above Warriors rather than higher on the list.

Is it mostly some class flaw? Better options higher on the list at different roles? Class ability ease? What would make the bottom half jump higher on the list?

Some input would be interesting.

Tbh I don’t think we could discuss all the problems in this thread. There have been several threads on each profession which means you can’t really give a short answer to your question.

For necros some of the key problems imo are:
Low mobility, low Stability uptime, most builds are condition based
=> opponents are usually faster, hard CC works very well against necros and finishing an opponent is difficult, conditions can be removed before they deal damage (which can be a problem sometimes)

The only problem about guardians is their mobility imo. The rest of their kit is really balanced and useful.

Not sure about the other 2.

Thiefs can be pretty good for roaming (if your team needs a solo roamer), even after their recent nerfs. They aren’t that horrible imo but I am definitely not a pro when it comes to thiefs.

Engineers can be really strong if played correctly but they are depending on boons. Maybe that could be one of the key problems but I would suggest you ask an engineer player here.