Guild Wars 2

Wow, this thread is still going on. I remember when you created it and I thought “well, this is going to be a lot of work if he really includes every single answer in his rating”. Glad to see you still keep it up-to-date.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to come out of my lurk mode for a bit and let you guys know that we are watching this thread on the balance team.

Keep it constructive, but keep going, we love reading the debate!

Nice to know that you are watching but what is being done about the Warrior’s continued listing at the bottom? Sure if the Warrior somehow gets the jump on you and throws his burst down he might win a 1v1. However if you see the Warrior coming there is no way that wont end in your favor.

The warrior is broken in PvP

Game breakingly Op

Necro

Decent

Everything

Might be good if necros werent so op

Necro

nakoda.4213:

I swear the people making this list have never fought a competent engie, Eggs included.

As if the elixir R nerf broke our class.

One skill could: stun break, end regen, and revive … twice.

It can still end regen and revive…twice.

Kittens. All of you.

As if R was our only defensive skill.

Two skills. Utility+toolbelt. And the toolbelt is part of our class mechanic, anyway – if utility+toolbelt weren’t better than other classes utilities – and it isn’t so for many of them anyway – then our class mechanic is useless, if not harmful. It isn’t like warriors’ weapons are weaker just because they also have a burst skill, after all. And so shouldn’t our skills.

Anyway, for the toolbelt to be used twice, it has to be properly traited.
And even then, it has some counters – knockback before the engi was downed, launch after he was downed, even waiting some seconds if you saw him tossing it was enough.
So, no, it wasn’t overpowered at all. And now is near useless by itself (and extremely weaker than the only other full endurance refilling skill, thief’s signet of agility).

And none of that functionality has changed, only the stun break. It sucks that you have to now slot something else or something in addition to R if you want a stun break. Rocket boots lost the stun break too. Healing mist got some, so did rumble (but why? >.<!)

Regardless, the nerf to R is not unwarranted, and we have myriad new options to go with it.

It’s not my problem you think that throwing nades and self rezzing in a GC spec is the only place for engies in the meta.

Learn to adapt. I sincerely wish I could devote more than a few nights to this game a week.

It seems like some people in this thread don’t even play this game. Honestly…

S-tier:
N/A

A-tier:

=Mesmer
=Ele
=Necro
=Guardian

B-tier:

+Thief
=Engineer
-Ranger
-Warrior

This is about accurate, to lazy to just create another tier. This game is finding its way to balance. Necros are going to become an abundance very soon, just because of the constant condition spam, but are still relatively weak in surviving when being focused.

I play a thief, and thieves are not as good most people say. Thieves still have their obvious weakness, conditions.

Anet definitely played whack-a-mole with their balance on Tuesday, why are rangers so awful right now? Warriors imo, need to explore more builds than just the ones they know, or they think they know.

nakoda.4213:

And none of that functionality has changed, only the stun break. It sucks that you have to now slot something else or something in addition to R if you want a stun break. Rocket boots lost the stun break too. Healing mist got some, so did rumble (but why? >.<!)

Regardless, the nerf to R is not unwarranted, and we have myriad new options to go with it.

It’s not my problem you think that throwing nades and self rezzing in a GC spec is the only place for engies in the meta.

Learn to adapt. I sincerely wish I could devote more than a few nights to this game a week.

And the cast time on the actual utility. That, in an utility that now has the only use of refilling endurance, makes it even more useless. It leaves you open to interrupts, but more than everything gives you a delay on when you’ll be able to use that endurance.

We’ve got other stun breaks, sure. But i won’t slot a turret just to destroy it because i need the stun break. I will have to use the elixir gun just because healing mist is the only decent stunbreaker there, and overall is still a nerf over my previous build.
They basically forced people to change their builds, since we are already pretty strict with utility slots. And the alternatives aren’t as good as the ones there were before. So, basically, it is still a nerf.

Beside that, despite your wrong assumptions, i don’t even use grenades or a GC spec. I simply don’t find any sense in this way of balancing.
You can’t simply compare a skill and his toolbelt to another utility and whine that the first is stronger. If it weren’t so, our class mechanic would be useless, since all it does said mechanic is simply to give us more skills.
And so they can’t simply be balanced seeing what the other skills do, cause it would be comparing a skill and a class mechanic versus a skill.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

It seems like some people in this thread don’t even play this game. Honestly…

S-tier:
N/A

A-tier:

=Mesmer
=Ele
=Necro
=Guardian

B-tier:

+Thief
=Engineer
-Ranger
-Warrior

This is about accurate, to lazy to just create another tier. This game is finding its way to balance. Necros are going to become an abundance very soon, just because of the constant condition spam, but are still relatively weak in surviving when being focused.

I play a thief, and thieves are not as good most people say. Thieves still have their obvious weakness, conditions.

Anet definitely played whack-a-mole with their balance on Tuesday, why are rangers so awful right now? Warriors imo, need to explore more builds than just the ones they know, or they think they know.

Thieves are not only that good as some people say, they’re terrible currently.

They would be even worse than rangers if only blind “fix” didn’t cover the terribadness.

Currently:

S tier

+ Necro
= Mesmer
- Ele

A tier

- Engi
- Guardian ( mostly due to not being able to resist to the lame necro )

B tier

= Thief
- Ranger ( for the reason said above)
- Warrior ( simply due to necros facerolling)

Manuhell.2759:

You can’t simply compare a skill and his toolbelt to another utility and whine that the first is stronger.

let’s be clear.

i am not the one whining about anything, here.

S
Necro +

A
Elementalist =/-?
Mesmer -
Guardian -

B
Engineer =
Ranger =
Thief =/-

C
Warrior =

I was joking yea I guess if I were to re-make the list it’d go like

S-Tier
^^Necro
^Engi
Mesmer

Lower Middle class family tier
Guardian

Peasant Tier
Thief
Ranger
Elementalist

PvP Rank 45, just over 2800 games played. Here is the quick list:

S
Necro -

A
Elementalist +
Guardian =
Mesmer -

B
Ranger +
Engineer =
Thief =
Warrior -

C
None

More detailed stuff;
- Necro, they are a bit over the top, but only need a few specific nerfs to level out.
- Elementalists are doing great with their new Air goodies.
- Mesmers and Guardians remain solid, but are a bit hurt by the Necro’s rise to power.
- Rangers are not as bad off as people think, just a small buff or two is needed.
- Engineers and Thieves are struggling a bit, need a little love.
- Warrior REALLY need better heals, and a way to counter blinds.

Will be updating this Sunday 6/30/2013 at 5pm eastern, 2pm pst.

OMG darnis u r such a noob man… Ridiculous. Because of guys like you gw2 will die out.
Always the same persons r qqing in forums and they all really dont know anything about this game man… its so sad that anet reacts to such tards -.-

Darnis.4056:

I was joking yea I guess if I were to re-make the list it’d go like

S-Tier
^^Necro
^Engi
Mesmer

Lower Middle class family tier
Guardian

Peasant Tier
Thief
Ranger
Elementalist

sry i cant stop write this.
but after read your two lists i know you should leave this topic :P
or maybe you just dont read the first site and dont know the meaining of the tiers

you know A is the tier every one should be and S is the “op” tier?
i agree that necro is atm at S but thats all,
never mesmer and engin

also never ele is just a “Peasant Tier”

pls anet stop read this topic… because you anet gusy dont know your game yourself, there are much lists just not able to trust, maybe this guys talk about other game.
and you should stop trust 80% of topics in the forum…
the forums are just rly full with non skilled players, try to complain 24/7 “this and this is op and this is to weak” and dont play the game :P

and now after trust such guys we have an bit to strong necromancer…
the skilled necro players always was good. now each kitten never played necro can do well.

S Tier:

New Necromancer. A lot of Fears, a lot of Conditions that are easy to apply and still huge defenses. Doesn’t seem to be an issue of simple adaptation. I run Signet of Stamina, Cleansing Ire, Dogged March and Hoelbrak runes, yet their condis still eat me alive.

Mesmer

A Tier:

Bunker and GS Retaliation abusing Guardians

Stealth and Evasion based Thieves

Bunker Engineers

B Tier:

Other Engineers

Other Guardians

Elementalist (close to A Tier imo)

BM Ranger

Longbow Warrior

Funny Tier:

Non-BM Ranger

Non-LB Warrior

P/P Thieves

I posted a tier list earlier where I put warrior at the bottom. Well after a lot of experimenting I have found a build that makes warriors a decent class in pvp. It is a longbow and sword/shield shout build. With this build the class is definitely playable and respectable. Other builds I’ve tried though are quite awful.

S tier

= Necros
= Mesmers

A tier

+ Eles
- Engineers

B tier

+ Guardians
= Rangers
= Thieves
- Warrior

my opinion of the patch so far

S-tier
=Necro
=Mesmer

A-tier
+Thief
+Guardian
=Ele
=Engineer

B-Tier
=Warrior
-Ranger

It still surprises me how much people overlook mesmers. Obviously necromancers are the most overpowered class right now, but mesmers are in nearly every organized team. Why does that get a free pass?

Maybe it’s because the problem is almost entirely Portal. I still don’t know why that mechanic hasn’t been given to another class in need. Engineer would be a good choice that would fit with the class’s theme. Ranger and warrior are good options too if ArenaNet just wants to ham-fist the mechanic without much thought about class themes.

Lopez.7369:

It still surprises me how much people overlook mesmers. Obviously necromancers are the most overpowered class right now, but mesmers are in nearly every organized team. Why does that get a free pass?

Maybe it’s because the problem is almost entirely Portal. I still don’t know why that mechanic hasn’t been given to another class in need. Engineer would be a good choice that would fit with the class’s theme. Ranger and warrior are good options too if ArenaNet just wants to ham-fist the mechanic without much thought about class themes.

You have a point, for the most part its Guardian, Elementalist, Mesmer on every pro/top tier team.

Guardian fulfills a niche and really doesn’t have to compete with any class for a slot on the team.

Elementalist can do a little bit of everything, but their access to and output capabilities of AoE are just unparalleled to really any other class as far as direct damage goes.

Mesmers have lots of avoidance and have a very “tricky” mechanic, and while they are pigeonholed into direct damage, the access to team support capabilities while being able to output strong damage on hold their own in a fight is a necessity on most every team.

And now, with the most recent patch, necros. Not only did engis receive more nerfs to their defensive options, but necros AoE condi output and rotations can literally melt people. It would be crazy to not take necros right now, because the access to condition damage, especially unblockable staff marks, is a huge boon when combined with a Dhuumfire fear build for any team, and deals massive damage.

So my updated list after playing the classes:

S tier:
-Necro

A tier:
+Guardian
=Elementalist
=Mesmer

B Tier:
=Thief
-Engineer
-Ranger

C Tier:
+Warrior

Edit: I can’t believe people placed ranger in god tier prepatch as compared to the new necro. The necro literally takes the rangers god tier and then goes over 9000 with it. If rangers were the standard for the S tier prepatch, then necros currently need a tier beyond S tier.

Thoughts after patch! Although I’ll be honest I’m not completely sure on guardian as we have not played with Azshene since the patch due to his graduation (so proud of him)

Tier S: Necro

Tier A:
Mesmer+ – Mesmer is + because xeph has shown me the way
Ele=
Guardian=
Engineer-? Maybe Tier B – I think Teldo is really affective at what he’s doing though and I can’t think of anything that would replace his role. So that is my reasoning for this placement.
Ranger- Not really any weaker imo but the fact that necro is so strong means its harder to fit on a team since you can only have 5 and necro is so strong. Still probably one of if not the strongest back node defender still.
Thief- Hard for me to place but I guess this seems good.

Tier B
Warrior+ I think people could prove me wrong and have warrior on Tier A but I personally haven’t tried to make warrior viable in a comp and I’ve seen others attempt to do it and either fail or sort of succeed to a frustrating degree(Chieftan ninjas!) so for now its Tier B.

Ok so I’m finally home and did some games on every class…

Tier S:
Necro – Dhuumfire really skyrocketed their pressure potential. Hell, you can do condi combos that do damage faster than Thief burst…

Tier A:
=Mesmer – Nerf to Blurred Frenzy was really good step, 20%+ invul uptime was getting old.
=Ele
=Guardian
—Engineer – Hard to decide between ’ – ’ and ’ = ’. Elixir R did too much for a single skill and I agree with toning it down, Engi is still strong though. New Rocket Boots are amazingly fun!

Tier B
+Thief
=Ranger – Pet nerf hurt non-BM builds a lot, imo pets should be made to scale with ranger stats instead of this flat nerf.

Tier C
—Warrior – For all the changes made, indirect nerfs put this class in a worse spot than ever before. (Necro buff, weakness buff, blind buff etc)

Tier S:
Necro (decent underestimated class that got overbuffed, how suprising~), Mesmer (not totally sure, might be A+)

Tier A:
+ Guardian, Engi
Ele

Tier B:
+ Thief (because of mobility)
Ranger

Tier Z:
Warrior

Harrier.9380:

Elixir R did too much for a single skill

Seems like many people don’t understand this part: utility AND toolbelt. It is part of the class mechanic of the engineers. If it wasn’t better of a single skill, the engineer class mechanic would be useless.
And so it can’t be balanced by simply comparing the skills.

Manuhell.2759:

Harrier.9380:

Elixir R did too much for a single skill

Seems like many people don’t understand this part: utility AND toolbelt. It is part of the class mechanic of the engineers. If it wasn’t better of a single skill, the engineer class mechanic would be useless.
And so it can’t be balanced by simply comparing the skills.

the point of the toolbelt is to compensate for the loss of a utility when equipping kits, and is meant to add synergy between that kit and other chosen utilities. this is why many toolbelt skills on non-kit utilities seem weaker than teh rest.

Elixir R was, in effect, a one slot Elixir Gun. It was too powerful and needed to be fixed.

Now, personally, i would have liked to have seen the stunbreak/end regen have stayed, with the toolbelt skill changing to something less OP than a twice spammable self/group rez..

nakoda.4213:

the point of the toolbelt is to compensate for the loss of a utility when equipping kits, and is meant to add synergy between that kit and other chosen utilities. this is why many toolbelt skills on non-kit utilities seem weaker than teh rest.

This is just your opinion on the matter, though. I’ve yet to see any developer talking about the toolbelt in such a way.

Elixir R was, in effect, a one slot Elixir Gun. It was too powerful and needed to be fixed.

Again, just your opinion. The effect of Elixir R itself was still weaker than similar utilities – like thieves’ signet of agility (30s cooldown, refill endurance and cure a condition on every ally, plus a passive effect that gives 180 precision). It made up with the toolbelt, sure, but even that has its counters. If people don’t use them, well, this is just their fault. We shouldn’t be punished because other people aren’t able to use a knockback, fear, a launch or simply stop attacking for a couple seconds when required.

nakoda.4213:

Now, personally, i would have liked to have seen the stunbreak/end regen have stayed, with the toolbelt skill changing to something less OP than a twice spammable self/group rez..

Again, see above. And it was usable a second time only with a trait conveniently placed in a non-tanking related tree – to take that, you would have lost some survivability anyway.

I would like to remind everyone to stay on-topic.

Deadline is 5pm est (1700h). From this initial point, every 20 lists I’ll update the primary list.

Manuhell.2759:

nakoda.4213:

the point of the toolbelt is to compensate for the loss of a utility when equipping kits, and is meant to add synergy between that kit and other chosen utilities. this is why many toolbelt skills on non-kit utilities seem weaker than teh rest.

This is just your opinion on the matter, though. I’ve yet to see any developer talking about the toolbelt in such a way.

Elixir R was, in effect, a one slot Elixir Gun. It was too powerful and needed to be fixed.

Again, just your opinion. The effect of Elixir R itself was still weaker than similar utilities – like thieves’ signet of agility (30s cooldown, refill endurance and cure a condition on every ally, plus a passive effect that gives 180 precision). It made up with the toolbelt, sure, but even that has its counters. If people don’t use them, well, this is just their fault. We shouldn’t be punished because other people aren’t able to use a knockback, fear, a launch or simply stop attacking for a couple seconds when required.

nakoda.4213:

Now, personally, i would have liked to have seen the stunbreak/end regen have stayed, with the toolbelt skill changing to something less OP than a twice spammable self/group rez..

Again, see above. And it was usable a second time only with a trait conveniently placed in a non-tanking related tree – to take that, you would have lost some survivability anyway.

You need traits to do a lot of things, Manuhell.

S Tier (OP)

Nothing.

A Tier (Great)

Mesmer – Use to be S tier, but with some nerfs these have felt more in line.
Guardian – Always been here. Always will.
Necro – Its 1v1 ability has gone up and same with it’s power in team fights. Sure it’s hard to stay alive, but it should be that way with all that power.
Engi – High skill cap, but kitten can this thing be useful. Lots of conditions and CC.

B Tier (Decent)

Thief – Still glassy as kitten and not very much in battle sustain. That does NOT make this class bad. There is no better class to hit back points with and if you are smart, you can kill anything.
Ranger – The Nerfs to BM made this a bit either to kill than normal. I’m not 100% sure if this is the right place for rangers, but we’ll see.

C Tier (Bad)

Warrior – I still dominate the living crap out of warriors in both team fights and 1v1. Every. Single. Time.

S Tier:
Nil

A Tier:
+ Mesmer – Untouched mechanics, still very high invuln(evade lol like there’s much of a difference) uptime, still very high burst, all on the same build. Also now some mesmers are running Mantra of Pain for very frequent 2.6k~ heals, I don’t even know why they’re allowed to do that together with everything else they can do.

= Guardian – Recently seeing quite a lot of damage-spec’d guards, that can do moderately high damage with burning on the side while still being very survivable due to blinds/aegis and block heal + invuln

= Engineer – Largely unchanged as far as I can tell, thankfully not using Elixir R as often any more, imo being able to either consistently res yourself or force an opponent to stop attacking you to prevent the self-res is just amazingly OP

= Necromancer – Not known as FotM for no reason, although personally I thought they were already good when played right. Now they just apply so much pressure in any fight involving them that you’re basically forced to focus them down first.

- Elementalist – Loads of healing, loads of movement. Quite a distance away from when they used to be considered FotM.

B Tier:
+ Thief – Blind spamming thieves are just awful to fight. Right now with the skill requirement of using blinds effectively being lowered so amazingly much, anyone can negate a lot of damage. Also quite a fair few thieves trying out condi builds, but it still suffers from the same problem of not being able to blanket up their damaging ones well.

= Ranger – Nerfs to pets were coming from a mile away. Still very good healing, very high dodging uptime, pretty good bunker.

C Tier:
- Warrior – Hey I would have put him lower but I do like the direction Anet is headed with warriors. Hopefully they don’t actually think that cleansing ire just by itself was enough to fix warrior. Blind superbuff has now killed most melee warrior builds, Condi meta has now forced most warriors to run 20 defense for Cleansing Ire, both also contributing to warrs being shoehorned into using a Longbow. Maybe next time, Warrior.

S-tier
- Necro

A-tier
+ Mesmer
= Guardian
= Ele

B-tier
+ Engy
+ Ranger
= Thief

C-tier
+ Warrior

Necros could use a slight nerf, even though they still fold pretty easily when trained. Once the Necro is toned down, it will be easier to judge where the other professions land. Warrior could well be solid B-tier if the game was less condi-heavy. Likewise, Engy and Ranger might get bumped to A-.

The Warrior needs sustain based on his HP, one of the thief heals for example heals them for 80% of there HP, Warriors need the same treatment with maybe boons/more added to it. All of our heals need improvement. We could use more condition removal traits/heal traits as well and Adrenal Health needs to heal on strikes of adrenaline. Our slower weapons need to have bonus strikes added per hit….

Just a lot of work.

Necro is FotM → every1 thinks necro is the best LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. This forum needs to grow up.

Imo (tpvp, capture the point):

Viable tier:
A. Guardian, Mesmer
B. Ele, Thief, Engi
C. Necro, Ranger

Unviable tier:
D. Warrior

Jesus kittening Christ, all of your tears are kittening delicious.

Love,

A Necro

Just putting this together quickly.

S Tier
Necro -

A Tier
Mesmer+
Guardian=
Elementalist=
Ranger -

B Tier
Engineer+
Thief =
Warrior =

I think the game is, as always, very close to balance. Would love to get rid of some of the gimmicky / noob-friendly play, such as fear stun-locking. I’d like to see the necro remain strong but it would be nice if it didn’t have such a high skill floor. Way too easy to be successful on one, regardless of skill level. As for warriors — with a couple of different builds, they are a force to be reckoned with in team fights. They’re certainly not on the “A Tier” but aren’t nearly as bad as people make them out to be.
Mesmers remain the unannounced op force they have been and will be forever. Eles received some variety this patch, but do not feel overly buffed as Fresh Air requires significant sacrifices — all in all a great patch to be an ele. Engineers lost a bit and it has hurt them.

Again, very close to balance. Hoping to see some things get toned down and others brought up.

Thanks for keeping this thread up, Defektive!

I like how massive majority of people here thinks warrior is pure rubbish. And I understand why. Warriors are pretty much countered with any profession with any build out there, and their lack of durability and useful utility just makes them profession to avoid in PVP.

They were, and still are, one trick pony with surprise burst down build that if interrupted in any way fails miserably and leaves warrior in a free kill position.

Dear people who balance professions, do something about warriors, because they are simply useless in PVP no matter what build you use.

A surprising lack of necromancers at ESL today. I’m really curious how much the absurd condition damage will be mitigated by organized teams focusing down necromancers in the long term.

Ordering pizza and then updating this. Last chance to get your opinion in.

Defektive.7283:

Ordering pizza and then updating this. Last chance to get your opinion in.

Five meat pizza is top tier.

S tier

None

A tier
Mesmer +
Necromancer +
Elem =
Guardian =
Engi -

B tier
Thief =
Ranger=

C tier
Warrior+

List has now been updated.

Thank you for the submissions there were many submissions to take into account.
I have saved the accumulated data in the event someone else wants it (for whatever reason). Please contact me in-game, my forum mailbox is full.

Upon analyzing duels, different builds, and different strategies with different classes, I have to once again put warriors in the F tier. This class is extremely bad in pvp, much worse than the consensus (that it is bad but playable). And for anyone that says 1on1 doesn’t matter, it does matter because 1on1 is a type of pvp that is very common.

I also want to add that necros do not seem overpowered at all, although I can not be sure about it. They seem to be improved and that is nice. I still think mesmers, guardians, eles, and thieves that spam stealth are the best classes in pvp.

Jzaku.9765:

S Tier:
Nil

A Tier:
+ Mesmer – Untouched mechanics, still very high invuln(evade lol like there’s much of a difference) uptime, still very high burst, all on the same build. Also now some mesmers are running Mantra of Pain for very frequent 2.6k~ heals, I don’t even know why they’re allowed to do that together with everything else they can do.

= Guardian – Recently seeing quite a lot of damage-spec’d guards, that can do moderately high damage with burning on the side while still being very survivable due to blinds/aegis and block heal + invuln

= Engineer – Largely unchanged as far as I can tell, thankfully not using Elixir R as often any more, imo being able to either consistently res yourself or force an opponent to stop attacking you to prevent the self-res is just amazingly OP

= Necromancer – Not known as FotM for no reason, although personally I thought they were already good when played right. Now they just apply so much pressure in any fight involving them that you’re basically forced to focus them down first.

- Elementalist – Loads of healing, loads of movement. Quite a distance away from when they used to be considered FotM.

B Tier:
+ Thief – Blind spamming thieves are just awful to fight. Right now with the skill requirement of using blinds effectively being lowered so amazingly much, anyone can negate a lot of damage. Also quite a fair few thieves trying out condi builds, but it still suffers from the same problem of not being able to blanket up their damaging ones well.

= Ranger – Nerfs to pets were coming from a mile away. Still very good healing, very high dodging uptime, pretty good bunker.

C Tier:
- Warrior – Hey I would have put him lower but I do like the direction Anet is headed with warriors. Hopefully they don’t actually think that cleansing ire just by itself was enough to fix warrior. Blind superbuff has now killed most melee warrior builds, Condi meta has now forced most warriors to run 20 defense for Cleansing Ire, both also contributing to warrs being shoehorned into using a Longbow. Maybe next time, Warrior.

Excellent writeup. I agree with pretty much everything you said. A longbow warrior might make C tier, any other warrior build is F tier.

S Tier:
– all bunker/regen builds

A Tier
– Necro
– Mesmer
– Engineer
 - Guardian

B Tier
– Elementalist
– Thief
– Ranger

C Tier
– Warrior

Sabre.1275:

Jzaku.9765:

S Tier:
Nil

A Tier:
+ Mesmer – Untouched mechanics, still very high invuln(evade lol like there’s much of a difference) uptime, still very high burst, all on the same build. Also now some mesmers are running Mantra of Pain for very frequent 2.6k~ heals, I don’t even know why they’re allowed to do that together with everything else they can do.

= Guardian – Recently seeing quite a lot of damage-spec’d guards, that can do moderately high damage with burning on the side while still being very survivable due to blinds/aegis and block heal + invuln

= Engineer – Largely unchanged as far as I can tell, thankfully not using Elixir R as often any more, imo being able to either consistently res yourself or force an opponent to stop attacking you to prevent the self-res is just amazingly OP

= Necromancer – Not known as FotM for no reason, although personally I thought they were already good when played right. Now they just apply so much pressure in any fight involving them that you’re basically forced to focus them down first.

- Elementalist – Loads of healing, loads of movement. Quite a distance away from when they used to be considered FotM.

B Tier:
+ Thief – Blind spamming thieves are just awful to fight. Right now with the skill requirement of using blinds effectively being lowered so amazingly much, anyone can negate a lot of damage. Also quite a fair few thieves trying out condi builds, but it still suffers from the same problem of not being able to blanket up their damaging ones well.

= Ranger – Nerfs to pets were coming from a mile away. Still very good healing, very high dodging uptime, pretty good bunker.

C Tier:
- Warrior – Hey I would have put him lower but I do like the direction Anet is headed with warriors. Hopefully they don’t actually think that cleansing ire just by itself was enough to fix warrior. Blind superbuff has now killed most melee warrior builds, Condi meta has now forced most warriors to run 20 defense for Cleansing Ire, both also contributing to warrs being shoehorned into using a Longbow. Maybe next time, Warrior.

Excellent writeup. I agree with pretty much everything you said. A longbow warrior might make C tier, any other warrior build is F tier.

Yeah!

Warrior become archer O.o

….with the patch, my warrior build got nerfed to the ground and the buffed weapons barely any better. i don`t know why would warrior went up tier, because some `haha`bunker build got buffed. while damage in general got nerfed

Warrior haven’t bunker build.
No exist bunker without protection + regeneration + invulnerability. And 3k tough are nothing to condition necro or burst thief.

Warrior die very easy, just this.

It seems to be all but unanimous that warriors are bottom tier. As someone who mains a warrior to more or less absolute exclusion, it would be difficult for me to create a sincere tier list. I’ve dabbled with other classes, but at the end of the day I just have too much fun landing those rare 100b combos. I also exclusively play TPvP, and am barely 60th percentile. (I.e. nothing special :P)

So with that in mind, I’m creating a tier list that describes my hardest fights 1v1 as a Zerker Amulet glass cannon greatsword warrior.

God Tier
=Pet/Condition Necromancers
-Trap Rangers

A Tier
+ Bunker Guardians
=Bunker Engies
=High Sustain Dagger Ele Builds

B Tier
+ Mesmers who use stealth
+ Stealth-centric Thieves
= Roaming Engineers
= Most rangers since patch
- Lifesteal/Power Necros
- Mesmers who don’t use stealth
- Roaming Guardians

C Tier
+ Thieves without stealth-spam
=Bow Warriors

Free Skirmisher Points Tier
-Offensive Melee Warriors

Ultimately, I think this tier list boils down to Defense + Ranged is staggeringly superior to Offense + Melee. If you have no escapes, getting into melee range, thus making yourself a convenient target for multiple ranged opponents, is a death sentence.

I think melee warriors would benefit most from an ability granting them some sort of deterrence from focus fire. If you imagine each player on the map as having a radius about them showing their effective attack range, melee warriors are likely to be within range for larger number of attackers than most classes/builds. This is further complicated by the warrior’s low number of escapes/sustain skills – When you attack a warrior you do so with confidence, knowing your damage will stick. (I.e. not be recovered in short order.)

However, these cons do not come without pros. Melee warriors have high damage potential. Unfortunately, deploying this damage requires your foes to be relatively unskilled. In higher levels of TPvP, players stop eating hundred blades like it’s a delicious snack. I think the ideal fix will be to make hundred blades and similar warrior skills a bit more difficult to avoid.

Essentially, warriors of the melee variety have damage to compensate for their vulnerability to focus fire and lack of sustain/escapes. That damage is only relevant if it can be applied. Presently, if a warrior and his opponent are of reasonable, comparable skill, the warrior is unlikely to land a sufficient amount of his attacks for his damage compensation to be worthwhile. Thus the warrior is both easily killed and dealing mediocre damage.

Anyways, just my take on the whole situation. Still having fun with structured pvp. (:

Holland.9351:

Shame on you ANet. Shame on your for only looking at sPvP. You don’t even deserve this post I’m making to you as a warning for how bad you’re handling your game.

Also this guy: Get out.

We don’t want’cher kind ’round hurr.