Guild Wars 2

Belial.9350:

Supreme.3164:

Now you can take the best ele player in this game, the top ones: @Honey

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

After her performance today, i agree!

Alekt.5803:

Nova Stiker.8396:

@Godservant.8736

That is a terrible how to kill an Ele guide.

First off GOOD elementalists start in fire, it helps with the might stack rotations. If a D/D elementalist can’t stack 20+ stacks of might it is going to do crap damage.

Secondly it is better to NOT heal yourself with Signet of Restoration as ele’s can easily get 3,000 health back in under 10 seconds. Not to mention you are healed off channeling ticks meaning that Cone of Cold can heal you 4,000+ health.

Interrupts are not super harmful but you are right about Chill. We are the only class in the game where Chill can slow our weapon swapping. Not to mention many of our skills has 20+ second cooldowns meaning staying in one attunement is BAD and you must constantly swap attunements to keep up the damage.

---

Elementalists are getting nerfed and I am glad for it. I am seeing way to many players hop onto this class and mash buttons like idiots. Idiots that take me to long to punish because they mash their cantips at the very first sign of CC. Not to mention poor skill rotation or flat out poor skill choices. It’s practically insulting.

So I had to try the Cone of Cold part. I can confirm that it does not proc Signet of Restoration at every ticks of the channel.

Yeah I’ve always known that SoR procs per spell cast not per channel tick.

But I do love his big man speech about how bad eles that mash buttons and spam cantrips insult him (coz you know, he’s a d/d ele god. death to noobs)

And yet he is incorrect about its basic healing mechanics.

But that’s how the forum works. It’s easier to talk big and have delusions of grandeur than it is to be a good player…coz that takes practice.

Edit: I’m sure NovaStriker is a good pvper but it’s not nice for him to be so tough on the button mashing noobs when he himself isn’t familiar with the class

Just waiting for ele tears…sweet sweet ele tears, nomore scrubs carried by their build

<3

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Salamander.2504:

Ragnarox.9601:

Awww you underpowerd d/d cele ele poor thing you ;( I wish I can buff you but I can’t.

He’s not asking for d/d cele ele buffs, he’s asking for more ele build diversity—ele’s are funneled into the d/d spec because everything else is much worse.

More build diversity=ele’s are happy.
Fewer d/d eles=community is happy.
Everyone wins.

I will say that I’ve been seeing some rather good staff and s/f ele’s popping up recently, but from what I understand the traits (2/3 traitlines) and utilities are largely the same from the meta cele build, which does underscore the OP’s point.

It would be nice…but remember, there are other professions in the same boat. Thieves have even less build diversity than eles, for example. They need to increase build diversity for many professions, not just ele.

The real problem is that on ele is “go tank or go bust”, this is a huge problem, a great design flaw as there close to no flexibility in the way you can play ele. The situation is even more pronounced in the ele case respect to other professions

Everything other then DD is much worse because DD is over powered. It is over powered compared to both other ele builds and other classes builds.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Salamander.2504:

Ragnarox.9601:

Awww you underpowerd d/d cele ele poor thing you ;( I wish I can buff you but I can’t.

He’s not asking for d/d cele ele buffs, he’s asking for more ele build diversity—ele’s are funneled into the d/d spec because everything else is much worse.

More build diversity=ele’s are happy.
Fewer d/d eles=community is happy.
Everyone wins.

I will say that I’ve been seeing some rather good staff and s/f ele’s popping up recently, but from what I understand the traits (2/3 traitlines) and utilities are largely the same from the meta cele build, which does underscore the OP’s point.

It would be nice…but remember, there are other professions in the same boat. Thieves have even less build diversity than eles, for example. They need to increase build diversity for many professions, not just ele.

Necromancer is in the same boat too. We pretty much have that one signets build, and that’s about it.

I love my MM build, but it will never be viable in a competitive sense until things like moan killing all minions is addressed.

It’s true ele is kinda funneled into D/D, but off the top of my head they still have at least the bunker staff build.

It seems to me that the core issue with ele is that too much of the sustain is funneled into traits instead of the weapons. While fresh air scepter ele might be true to it’s GW1 roots, it doesn’the synergies well with the trait lines it would need to take to survive.

Hell, ele in general has a large number of issues. I’might a necromancer main, but I can make builds utilizing many different trait line mix and matches a lot easier with necromancer than ele.

Supreme.3164:

This is more of a reminder for the devs and partly for the community at least for those with some consideration, to both parties I’ll link this old video for you to watch. What you will see has not changed much

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ&index=12&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7

Now you can take the best ele player in this game, the top ones: : @Honey

you basically destroyed all your wall of text with this…ppl won’t go over this line

Supreme.3164:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Salamander.2504:

Ragnarox.9601:

Awww you underpowerd d/d cele ele poor thing you ;( I wish I can buff you but I can’t.

He’s not asking for d/d cele ele buffs, he’s asking for more ele build diversity—ele’s are funneled into the d/d spec because everything else is much worse.

More build diversity=ele’s are happy.
Fewer d/d eles=community is happy.
Everyone wins.

I will say that I’ve been seeing some rather good staff and s/f ele’s popping up recently, but from what I understand the traits (2/3 traitlines) and utilities are largely the same from the meta cele build, which does underscore the OP’s point.

It would be nice…but remember, there are other professions in the same boat. Thieves have even less build diversity than eles, for example. They need to increase build diversity for many professions, not just ele.

The real problem is that on ele is “go tank or go bust”, this is a huge problem, a great design flaw as there close to no flexibility in the way you can play ele. The situation is even more pronounced in the ele case respect to other professions

The situation is exactly the same with both thief and necromancer. Rangers aren’t in the same boat only because they have zero competitive builds instead of one. A few professions have the option to go conditions instead of power (elementalists are so out of hand partially because they get both in the same build, plus massive sustain, while others have to choose one or the other), but condition builds right now tend to be gimmicky, +1ing burn builds that wouldn’t hold their own in tournaments.

The problem is the elementalists can go tank and still have good damage, condition damage, mobility, cleanse and blindness.

How come after 10000000000000 threads that prove ele beeing OP as f… there are still guys that say “NO NO NO”… D/D Cele Ele beeing op is a fact mate, u write about comptetitive look at team comps. 1/2/3 sometimes 4 eles in ESL WTF. There is also BUNKER Staff ele that is almost impossible to kill cuz it abuses godlike traits that make them so tanky that bunker guards wish they could get 10% of ele sustain…
Its simple, Or nerf ele survi and buff dmg or nerf dmg and dont change survi, ele CAN BASICLY outlast any other class with almost no effort… Thier passive traits are plain “WOOT WOOT WOOT” If you hit them you get chilled(perma chilled) they can stack up protection(with tempest even more powerful) you get blinded when u get burned, they got trait that NEGATES CRITS, have almost every possible efective defence, knocks stuns dazes chill heal protection weakness. They can spam fire endlessly with 10 sec cd on combo with cleansing fire that will proc from trait(and burn enemy kitten + thier own cleansing fire. They can basicly 1 combo you with 12/15 burning and survive till they have another same combo. Nowadays eles just dont care, all they do is run in fire, go defensive on other attumens if they bother to swap, and go in with fire combo again. If u fight with ele there is basicly 5 sec every 10 sec where he doesnt have ring of fire up… And ring of fire can be countered ONLY BY EVADING trough it, When ele can do what he want, run around past field knock u into it spam drake breath that has like 3 sec cd…

OFC ELE is not OP not rly…

Ele really needs some redesign, hopefully before or with HoT. It has just been the same build for over a year now (arcana,water, cantrips…for all of the weapon combos). And it is even more stale because ele can’t mix and match weapons and are basically locked in 6-10 skills (with very very little change) unlike other professions who have a bit more leeway.

The problem of the ele is that a ele can stack 20-25 stack of might while fighting, and don’t stack might only for itself, the ele stack also might for the team, why can blast firefields repeatly.

If you see the dagger skills and the Fire Traitline you can immediatly know that the ele is overpowered in fact of both direct and condition damage. If you look at the minor traits you can see that when you attune to fire gain 150 power and fire aura, plus 10% damage against burning enemies indipendent to your attunement. Then you can chose to, for example, active passively a condi clean that also burn the enemy, every 32 sec, have a 10% damage and 33% skill cd reduction and each skill you do grant you might.

if that’s not enough to inflict damage…

Then look to water: Health regen passively for you and the team and heal the team. Then every 20 sec you can obtain regen and frost aura (indipendant to the attunement), that cantrips give you regen and vigor, that go in combo with the previous fire line trait, and remove a condition when you give regeneration to your or an ally.
Plus frost aura, heals and waterfields by weapons.

Not enough sustain?

Chose Arcane: everything that happen in the game give you boons or damage skills… hit, be hited, dodge, change attunement. (also the useless falling damage!)

Not enough sustain/damage traits?

Then, see what happen with all that things:
You play celestial but with fire attunement and might you reach 2635 of POWER (more than a common dps build can reach) and also 1310 of condition damage, more or less the same as a condition damage build. Plus a funny +20% damage against an enemy (attuned to fire and if burned). With a insane amount of that kitten firefield that have a Cd of 10 sec and last 8, giving 3 stack of burn every single time you cross it. And if you want to take a little more to reach 25 stack of might you can chose to obtain a perma Fury, that grant you to reach 50% critical rate all the time.
About condition damage, a common D/D ele can stack ainsane amount of burn with the same condition damage of a condition class/build, using Burn that is the powerfull condition damage of the game and bleed (dagger skill 5 is very good to blast and inflict bleed, if you know how to use it)

That’s not enough damage????

Then you swap water and clean all the conditions and heal full hp if you need.

Do you need blind, CC skills, high direct damage and movement skills? Swap Lightinig and hit! The enemy will become vulnerable, blinded, knocked back and stunned by the aura.

Ok, now, do you really think that it’s not enough direct damage, condition damage, movement skills and survavibility?

REALLY????

Seriously: the ele need more than a little nerf.
need to take it’s firefield inflict 2 stach when actived and 1 burn when crossed and last 3 seconds, no more. And it’s recharge increased to 21 seconds (then reduced by trait to 14 seconds if you take it).
And insert a ICD of 3 seconds in the trait that give might qhen you use any skill when attuned with fire.

That will help to reduce the insane amount of direct and condition damage the ele can deal while playing a bunker build.

really: the cele ele D/D can inflict the same Direct damage amount of a pure berserker class/build and more or less the same condition damage of a pure condition damage class/build. With the same healing ability and condition cleans of a bunker.

Now, how can you say that the ele isn’t OP?

do you know that if Thieves go full dps they have no sustain as well? Oh well they have no sustain at all nowadays

FIX CHILL.

Seriously, we are the ONLY class in the game were our weapon swapping is slowed. Chill is incredibly crippling towards Elementalists as we rely on heavily swapping attunements.

Feel free to take away Elementalists ability to recover from conditions like pre-nerfed Peace and Harmony Monks but kitten we are completely screwed when a necromancer can dance around applying 10-20 seconds of chill.

Seriously, I’d rather have 5 stacks of burning for 10 seconds than 10 seconds of Chill.

Kolly.9872:

do you know that if Thieves go full dps they have no sustain as well? Oh well they have no sustain at all nowadays

Ironically that is what i’m going to play when they nerf ele. And no sustain is relative considering on my thief I can just go invis, run away, heal, come back, invis, reposition, burst, invis, run away, heal, come back, invis… you get the idea. I’m sure you’ve played thief before.

As soon as Cele Ele is nerfed, Cele Nerco will take over as the FOTM op build. Be ready for it.

Cele necro shines because of cele ele, fool. However, cele necro will single handedly prevent any condi builds from entering the meta (assuming diamond skin is murdered).

On to the chill topic, no. Attunements are a profession mechanic as well as a weapon swap. As with any classes profession mechanic, they’re affected by chill. Elementalists have enough condi removal to make this slight downfall trivial.

i dont think, that ele needs a nerv, becouse besides cele dd ele the class isnt to strong at all…., in my opinion only the burn stacks/application need to be reduced, becouse cele dd ele is able to stack many burn stacks to fast

and if ele will fall out of the meta warriors as bunkers/supporters will return…, necro will not take over, just becouse hambow warrior is able to beat necro on node and also decap/hold the cap against necro 1vs1

and if ele burns will be reduced we will see more engis, i guess

TorsoReaper.8530:

I can just go invis, run away, heal, come back, invis, reposition, burst, invis, run away, heal, come back, invis… you get the idea. I’m sure you’ve played thief before.

And all the thieves in the game facepalm at this comment. lol

TorsoReaper.8530:

Kolly.9872:

do you know that if Thieves go full dps they have no sustain as well? Oh well they have no sustain at all nowadays

Ironically that is what i’m going to play when they nerf ele. And no sustain is relative considering on my thief I can just go invis, run away, heal, come back, invis, reposition, burst, invis, run away, heal, come back, invis… you get the idea. I’m sure you’ve played thief before.

Yeah I’ve played thief “sometimes” in pvp. Are you sure you did the same against something that is not a Golem dummy?

Hammerguard.9834:

On to the chill topic, no. Attunements are a profession mechanic as well as a weapon swap. As with any classes profession mechanic, they’re affected by chill. Elementalists have enough condi removal to make this slight downfall trivial.

The ele class mechanic is what gives them access to their different skills. All 20 of the ele weapon skills go on increased cooldown when chilled. There is no reason for chill to double-dip when used against an ele.

This also likely means that alacrity benefits eles more, though I haven’t tested this. If that is the case this interaction should be removed too.

The problem is that overloads share cooldowns with attunements. I have no idea how the devs could make chill affect overloads while not affecting attunements.

As someone who mains Ranger, my heart bleeds for you.

It’s such a hard life as an Ele

:(

livlaender.8790:

i dont think, that ele needs a nerv, becouse besides cele dd ele the class isnt to strong at all…., in my opinion only the burn stacks/application need to be reduced, becouse cele dd ele is able to stack many burn stacks to fast

and if ele will fall out of the meta warriors as bunkers/supporters will return…, necro will not take over, just becouse hambow warrior is able to beat necro on node and also decap/hold the cap against necro 1vs1

and if ele burns will be reduced we will see more engis, i guess

Ele isn’t getting a nerf. Specifically, their “d/d cele” build is getting a make over. The word frost bow comes to mind if you remember that “nerf”.

Just because 1 class has an OP build while his other builds are worthless (they’re not) doesn’t mean that the class is fine. Quite the opposite, the class is unbalanced.

Lets assume Anet does the right thing to the Ele and we only see 1 Ele per team as oppose to 2+.. this is who could replace that +1 class.

- Engi will be more popular as they offer quite a bit of utilities and complement any team conposition. Two Engis can work given the right management.
-Same goes for Mesmer with the exception that they don’t fight well in zergs but they have a great opening burst, rivaling that of Thieves. They’re also one of the better 1v1 classes around.
- Wars don’t stack well but just one on a team can be acceptable.
-Sig Necros (necros in general) are in line with Burn/Dps Guardians. They can potentially offer great team support via condi pulls while offering moderate damages via boon converting or transfering. (That’s the current meta, but it could change)

tl;dr
Engi/Thief/Ele (assuming ele still works) are top picks.

Necro/Mesmer/Bunk Guard are second pick

Dps Guardian/War/Ranger are third

Sig necro isn’t first pick because they’re only useful against cele d/d ele and condi classes. Once cele d/d ele gets a rework, signet necro wont be as needed in the meta as cele d/d will (hopefully) be on par with other classes.

Add on will bring new op builds…
i think in 3-5 years the balance can be good.

Drennon.7190:

As soon as Cele Ele is nerfed, Cele Nerco will take over as the FOTM op build. Be ready for it.

If the nerfs include real and common boon hate it will cancel out and necro is a counter class nothing to counter means no point in your presence.

If ANet nerf the ele like the last time, I will need to play it!

Why?

In the past patch where they tried to nerf it making it chose between evasive arcane and the attunement that give boons, they cried so much that devs makes one of them not only aviable in another tier of the traitline, they made it a Minor Trait always aviable when you chose the arcane traitline!
That’s a nerf guys, that’s a nerf!

And they nerfed the damage ability of the eles giving them the fire traitline that only give them the chance to stack insanely burn, obtain a insane amount of might, blind every 5 seconds, obtain fire auras, increase the damage with +150 power in a minor trait and 10 + 10% of damage on a burned enemy and when attuned on fire. or theu can chose to obtain a neverending firefield that inflict a insane amount of burn and fury every time they blast it.

oh, yeah, that’s a nerf!!!

Guys, i really want another nerf like that! Please, ANet, nerf the ele! Please!!!

Oh yeah, that will be great!

Silv.9207:

In the past patch where they tried to nerf it making it chose between evasive arcane and the attunement that give boons

Why is it that advocates always feel the need to word it like it’s even a choice? The nerf in question would simply make it so nobody ever uses Evasive Arcana because Elemental Attunement is 100% necessary for every Elementalist in order to survive in PvP.

1. Burn Stacks/Damage (Yes, this gets the #1 spot.)

The current burst meta is a condition……..it’s literally contradicting itself just me saying it. Currently certain classes like Engi, Ele, and Gaurdian, when played well, can burst you down with burn stacks faster than zerker can with damage.

2. D/D Ele

I actually am surprised this is still an issue. The ammount of gap close, burst, and get out they have is insane. Every time I see one, or play mine, I feel like our portraits should have the jagged purple border warning people to run the **** away.

3. Rampage

It’s just…….it’s rampage…..what more can I say? It’s about the equivalent of my joke post earlier that Thief’s need an 8 second invulnerability signet. It’s pretty much this….

4. Mesmer

They are caster thieves that potentially have the highest burst in the game, the most escapes (Under d/d ele), and whats that?….they can do it all from stealth?…..well then….>.>

These are what REALLY need balancing. Below is one of my own personal opinion…

Necro’s downed state:

I literally feel like Necro’s are twice as scary when downed vs when up…like….to the point where I will down them, just to make them less mobile….and run away…because if I stay they can down me from full health before I can stomp them proved they land their fear…….really?

I literally have burst a necro down on my D/D Ele, had full health remaining, and been downed before I can stomp them, then killed……..

Hmm, no, don’t think so. Burn’s too easy to cleanse and for once guardians get a condi build. I’d hate to see that go away, even though I don’t play guard. More diverse builds for every prof is good for the game.

Rampage is fine. It was nerfed enough.

D/D ele definitely needs a nerf.

Mesmer could stand to be toned down, but could use some help to get more diverse strong builds.

Necro downed state is fine. Without the damage, they really have one of the weakest downed state in the game. Just don’t stand in the big Capt Obvious circle.

Silv.9207:

If ANet nerf the ele like the last time, I will need to play it!

Why?

In the past patch where they tried to nerf it making it chose between evasive arcane and the attunement that give boons, they cried so much that devs makes one of them not only aviable in another tier of the traitline, they made it a Minor Trait always aviable when you chose the arcane traitline!
That’s a nerf guys, that’s a nerf!

And they nerfed the damage ability of the eles giving them the fire traitline that only give them the chance to stack insanely burn, obtain a insane amount of might, blind every 5 seconds, obtain fire auras, increase the damage with +150 power in a minor trait and 10 + 10% of damage on a burned enemy and when attuned on fire. or theu can chose to obtain a neverending firefield that inflict a insane amount of burn and fury every time they blast it.

oh, yeah, that’s a nerf!!!

Guys, i really want another nerf like that! Please, ANet, nerf the ele! Please!!!

Oh yeah, that will be great!

sad but true

its funny to me playing a thief that i have less burst than nearly all of the classes in the game and i have to not only setup my burst but i have to do so from up close and personal with the constant stream of aoe dps/cc that is this game with the majority of classes playing asuras (nearly impossible to see back from front) to only get an efforted backstab for 3k after immunity/block/armor/protection/retaliation just to waste half my cooldowns and half my initiative on a targets thats just going to turn keyboard turn around /laugh then 2 shot me if im not quick enough on reactions to avoid thier dmg

does anyone else see something wrong with this picture

By all means plz trash talk me and say its a learn to play issue because i havnt been playing for 3 years straight on thief alone with over 10k tournaments with r1 solo and team along with soldier of the arena and competing in the mlg tournament which was hand picked players

but on the bright side we can rotate a second or 2 faster than most thats worht it right?

Luclinraider.2317:

Necro’s downed state:

I literally feel like Necro’s are twice as scary when downed vs when up…like….to the point where I will down them, just to make them less mobile….and run away…because if I stay they can down me from full health before I can stomp them proved they land their fear…….really?

I literally have burst a necro down on my D/D Ele, had full health remaining, and been downed before I can stomp them, then killed……..

Lol if you think it’s bad now you would have hated it back when necro’s had a trait that gave them %50 more down damage. Those were some fun days lol

1) Get this through your head, “BURN IS SUPPOSED TO BE BURST LEVELS OF DAMAGE WHEN YOU HAVE A LOT OF STACKS.”

2) d/d ele needs a slight nerf to a few different things.

3) Rampage is completely fine

4) Mesmers are fine

5) I actually agree about necro down state, but that’s just because I want a better minor trait than 25% down state damage and vuln below 33% health not cause it is OP. I also want to see necros down state fear skill apply in aoe.

Also, to the thief complainer. Your class is not in an ideal position right now I agree, but the burst difference between mes and thief is not big. Also, the setup is relatively similar, and it is often easier to dodge a mes burst than a thief burst imo.

stoped reading when I noticed you want to have rampage nerfed.
Like really Rampage is such a gimmick skill which gets countered so easily and then there are still some badies around who wants this to get nerfed.

official.7362:

its funny to me playing a thief that i have less burst than nearly all of the classes in the game and i have to not only setup my burst but i have to do so from up close and personal with the constant stream of aoe dps/cc that is this game with the majority of classes playing asuras (nearly impossible to see back from front) to only get an efforted backstab for 3k after immunity/block/armor/protection/retaliation just to waste half my cooldowns and half my initiative on a targets thats just going to turn keyboard turn around /laugh then 2 shot me if im not quick enough on reactions to avoid thier dmg

does anyone else see something wrong with this picture

By all means plz trash talk me and say its a learn to play issue because i havnt been playing for 3 years straight on thief alone with over 10k tournaments with r1 solo and team along with soldier of the arena and competing in the mlg tournament which was hand picked players

but on the bright side we can rotate a second or 2 faster than most thats worht it right?

Not sure how you can say you have less burst unless you’re running cleric’s amulet or something. It sounds like you are really really experienced so not trying to tell you how to play but when I play thief (and I suck as thief), I can basically one shot all mesmers, all ele’s, most rangers and warriors down to like 1/3 health in which case I stealth, re position, back stab, heartseeker, and they’re dead. In a 2v1 I’m dead, in a teamfight I can either be ranged or get slaughtered the moment I jump in so from that stand point, yea thief has some issues, but to say it doesn’t have burst… i just don’t understand.

Kolly.9872:

TorsoReaper.8530:

Kolly.9872:

do you know that if Thieves go full dps they have no sustain as well? Oh well they have no sustain at all nowadays

Ironically that is what i’m going to play when they nerf ele. And no sustain is relative considering on my thief I can just go invis, run away, heal, come back, invis, reposition, burst, invis, run away, heal, come back, invis… you get the idea. I’m sure you’ve played thief before.

Yeah I’ve played thief “sometimes” in pvp. Are you sure you did the same against something that is not a Golem dummy?

Stealth on heal, stealth on steal, stealth on HS inside pistol 5, stealth on dagger 5, shadow refuge, …

“stealth on steal”
Are you still talking about full DPS-builds? That trait is in SA…
And I don´t think relying on Hide in Shadows as a condi-remove is that great with that much condis flying around. (Shadow-step is to important as a stun breaker to use it every time for conditions).

seeing as how u say u suck at thief and u can 1 shot everything i guess ur playing agaisnt bad players or the last time u played thief was a while ago when we actually were the best burst. sounds like ur bursting ppl who are standing still with no boons or armor or health sure maybe u can burst those classes taht no one really plays seriously but your going to get bursted even faster vs others who are 3 times the survival of u with twice the teamsupport and sustsain. Im not saying we dont have great burst im saying other classes burst compared to ours can do the same dmg if not more than us in a 2-4 sec time frame which is what i think of when saying burst. Not 1 hit but a 2-4 sec dmg combo

The idea of damage in this game should be risk vs reward higher dmg higher chance of dying. lets just say this is out of wack when it comes to thief and the other classes

Coronit.9432:

“stealth on steal”
Are you still talking about full DPS-builds? That trait is in SA…
And I don´t think relying on Hide in Shadows as a condi-remove is that great with that much condis flying around. (Shadow-step is to important as a stun breaker to use it every time for conditions).

Not talking about full dps, mostly talking about being alive more than dead. It’s more important to be alive and capping points than it is to stay in a pointless teamfight at mid accomplishing nothing or spending more time dead and respawning. My point on stealth, which I know isn’t “real” sustain is that thieves have the highest ability to get ooc.

Hide in shadows is in heal, Shadow Step is in utility so not mutually exclusive. Also HIS cures burning which is everywhere.

I think I know what happened here.

OP uses an ele expecting the profession to carry him to success. It didn’t quite to that for him and it certainly didn’t make him a PvP god so he thinks it’s balanced. Does that sound about right?

official.7362:

seeing as how u say u suck at thief and u can 1 shot everything i guess ur playing agaisnt bad players or the last time u played thief was a while ago when we actually were the best burst. sounds like ur bursting ppl who are standing still with no boons or armor or health sure maybe u can burst those classes taht no one really plays seriously but your going to get bursted even faster vs others who are 3 times the survival of u with twice the teamsupport and sustsain. Im not saying we dont have great burst im saying other classes burst compared to ours can do the same dmg if not more than us in a 2-4 sec time frame which is what i think of when saying burst. Not 1 hit but a 2-4 sec dmg combo

The idea of damage in this game should be risk vs reward higher dmg higher chance of dying. lets just say this is out of wack when it comes to thief and the other classes

If we are talking DPS over time, other than mesmer I don’t know who really has the same 0 to 3 second damage output. 3 second to 6 second thief is reliably going to get smoked. Maybe we are saying the same thing.

1) Burn is more or less fine. They can tone it down by 15% and increase by 10% the trait on guardians that increase they’re burn damage, making it perfect.

2) D/D ele and S/D ele have only 2 things that need to be toned a little: lesser blast (expecially for scepter), lesser might stack traits, lesser burn and the ring of fire need to last 3 sec, no more (traited it go up to 5) and the skill need to go up to 24-27 sec of cooldown, that way you obtain a firefield that last 3-5 seconds every 15-18 seconds (fire line trait), that is more than enough, expecially why it’s both a damage skill and a perfect firefield

Velimere.7685:

Silv.9207:

In the past patch where they tried to nerf it making it chose between evasive arcane and the attunement that give boons

Why is it that advocates always feel the need to word it like it’s even a choice? The nerf in question would simply make it so nobody ever uses Evasive Arcana because Elemental Attunement is 100% necessary for every Elementalist in order to survive in PvP.

Dude, that’s the funcion that that nerf had been thinked to do.
That’s why actually with that 2 traits a good ele can stay all the time fullbuffed only swapping it’s attunements and dodging. And that’s not something that had to happen!

A choice between that 2 traits will make the eles unable to stay all the time fullbuffed, making them more like all the other classes: a mere mortal.

Velimere.7685:

Silv.9207:

In the past patch where they tried to nerf it making it chose between evasive arcane and the attunement that give boons

Why is it that advocates always feel the need to word it like it’s even a choice? The nerf in question would simply make it so nobody ever uses Evasive Arcana because Elemental Attunement is 100% necessary for every Elementalist in order to survive in PvP.

it’s called opportunity cost. get over it. it’s what every other profession has to deal with.

Silv.9207:

A choice between that 2 traits will make the eles unable to stay all the time fullbuffed, making them more like all the other classes: a mere mortal.

Again, it’s not a choice as I explained; feel free to now read my reply that you seemingly quoted without actually having done so. I’m also not sure what you mean by “fullbuffed” seeing as Evasive Arcana doesn’t provide any boons.

You also seem to fail to understand that the majority complaint against Celestial Dagger/Dagger Elementalist is its damage output, specifically via burning, seeing as you’re bringing up a nerf pertaining to sustain which is absolutely meager without appropriate Healing Power in the first place.

sinject.4607:

it’s called opportunity cost. get over it. it’s what every other profession has to deal with.

That’s as fair of an “opportunity cost” as Bountiful Thief over Sleight of Hand is.

I am against nerfing d/d eles.

Much wiser if they stay where they are and buff other classes.

Why? So that when the next OP build emerges and eles qq on forums asking for nerfs, all we gotta say is,

“hey you guys didn’t get nerfed, so why nerf us? we only caught up to your op-ness.”

Think about that…it’s a better deal in the long run.

And when was the last time necros were OP? Way back in 2013……for several weeks :/

Velimere.7685:

Silv.9207:

A choice between that 2 traits will make the eles unable to stay all the time fullbuffed, making them more like all the other classes: a mere mortal.

Again, it’s not a choice as I explained; feel free to now read my reply that you seemingly quoted without actually having done so. I’m also not sure what you mean by “fullbuffed” seeing as Evasive Arcana doesn’t provide any boons.

You also seem to fail to understand that the majority complaint against Celestial Dagger/Dagger Elementalist is its damage output, specifically via burning, seeing as you’re bringing up a nerf pertaining to sustain which is absolutely meager without appropriate Healing Power in the first place.

sinject.4607:

it’s called opportunity cost. get over it. it’s what every other profession has to deal with.

That’s as fair of an “opportunity cost” as Bountiful Thief over Sleight of Hand is.

to suggest that there isn’t a clear and apparent need to heavily reduce elementalist’s overall sustain is wrong in the first place.

elementalists have too much of it. period.
too much access to boons (protection/regen/vigor/might)
too much access to condition cleanses.
too much access to blinds.
too much access to healing (regen/SoR/soothing mist etc)
too much access to burn application (plays into issue with blind access)

almost every single thing about this build interacts with each other or builds on each other to the point where there is almost “no wrong move” considering how much happens with so few actions. this is called efficiency. when a build is too efficient, it becomes overpowered. celestial elementalist is unarguably overpowered; more so than anything before it and most likely everything that will come after it. this is precisely because at every point d/d celestial elementalist is ridiculously efficient. the only way to actually nerf a build is to reduce it’s efficiency either through increasing the contextual opportunity cost of certain utilities (i.e. Engineer’s Incendiary Powder getting moved to Firearms) or reducing the individual performance of utilities so that it’s current interplay efficiency no longer makes it overpowered (i.e. Thief’s Mug becoming incapable of critically hitting to nerf it’s strength in a burst context).

now that you hopefully know how balance works, i’d say increasing opportunity cost by making you choose between Evasive Arcana & Elemental Attunement (for example) to reduce celestial elementalist’s efficiency is a perfectly reasonable suggestion.

I’d agree with you that it’s like choosing between Bountiful Theft and Slight of Hand, but that isn’t true at all. given the context of thief as a profession, there’d be no reason to nerf the interaction because the profession itself isn’t in need of a nerf. the same cannot be said about elementalist.

zapv.8051:

1) Get this through your head, “BURN IS SUPPOSED TO BE BURST LEVELS OF DAMAGE WHEN YOU HAVE A LOT OF STACKS.”

There are two types of people when it comes to burns.

1. Those who are objective and realize that burns are too strong right now.
2. Those who rely on burn builds and try to convince themselves that it is balanced.

Silv.9207:

1) Burn is more or less fine. They can tone it down by 15% and increase by 10% the trait on guardians that increase they’re burn damage, making it perfect.

Another example of category 2.

Burn stacking is NOT fine. It is always funny how the immediately comeback is “use more cleanse”. What a lot of those who use burn stacking don’t want to admit is that it is a lot easier to apply burns than it is to clear them. Even a support guard who does have access to a lot of cleanses can’t keep up.

Rampage does not need a change. There are plenty of ways to deal with it and it really doesn’t last that long. It’s good, but that’s kind of the point of elites.

Mesmer could have their stealth toned down, but I’d wait to see until after the elite specs are released since there’s going to be a lot more reveal.

Necro down state was already nerfed. It’s inline with every other traited down state now. I don’t even think most necros take that anymore. Though I don’t run meta so I may be out of the loop.