Guild Wars 2

The only thing to do to balance this game is to tone down necromancers . I play different classes and i made 2 examples . Engineer : engineer has 2 different build , power and condi. Condi build (old style engi ) can work quite well but only if you don’t meet a necro ( an old style condi engi can kill scrapper for example ) . But the only build viable is scrapper meta becouse if you find a necro it is the only with which you can win , with other you can only pray and run. You can win becouse that build has an absurd and unfair regen … it is not fair for other class something like that but if you tone down engi regen and you don’t tone down necro, you can delete engineer from the game. Elementalist : you can have different viable build in my opinion now : cleric meta, paladin for example paladin scrapper with d/d or mender. The problem is that against a necro the only one who can work is cleric . Tone down necro and also ele will have much more viable builds . It is not for help a single class…. you have to tone it down for having other 8 classes more enjoyable . When i see a necro in other team i can switch to scrapper or to cleric ele but… it is not fun to have to be obliged to do it every time

1: It is never that simple. No matter what we are talking about, there will never be only a single, easy solution.

2: Do you actually believe that if you tone down a damage dealer, people would not be ‘forced’ into bunker builds. If you can play an immortal ele, why should you play a squishy one? Some players might do it, most of them not

3: A big part of the necros strenght is, that they can actually defeat some of them truly op builds (like power scrapper or perhaps even ele)
The class itself is certainly strong, but not remotely as strong as a well played revenant, ele, scrapper or even mesmer.

4:They are also counterable. Sure they deal a lot of damage, but most of it can be negated if your team brings a good amount of aoe cleanses. They also melt extremly fast if you focus them.

Think about how it works: thief>necro>scrapper>>thief. Necros are good to counter builds that are boon heavy and rely on direct damage denial. The only reason they are so good is, because most people play those builds.
Again: the class is certainly not fine, but it is not remotely as op as some others.
The pro leagues are a good proof. Ele, rev, mesmer are standard. Scrapper, necro and ranger compete for the last 2 spots.

And you complteely forgot about the underpowered calsses. Like warriors. Just tell them they will be fine once necros are nerfed.

the only problem is that necro kills build diversity . Only 1 class do that .

The necromancer is good, a really good class. But for shure is not OP or the stronger one.
A reaper is easy to burst down with 5 sec of focus, don’t have mobility, don’t have defensive skills, don’t give support to the team (only some condi absorption by plague signet, when not used). It’s damage is really good and combine direct and condition damage but can not be compared to other classes that can burst you down faster.

What make the Necro strong in this meta is basicly that is the only class that can kill Boon Spammers, or grant to the team a window to kill the enemy when he’s not overbuffed, converting they’re boons into conditions. Also can reflect condi back, but since that meta came up that ability don’t grant all that damage that everyone think, simply why there’s only few classes that use condition damage. Before HoT there was 5 classes on 8 that played conditions, now only 2 (reaper and chrono), plus revenant or some druids that want to play condi instead of the “meta” build.

The necromancer have not to be toned down why have a lot of counterplay.

The real thing that had to be toned down is the thing that make the necro so powerfull: Boon Spamming.

Is 1 year that the comunity ask for a boom spamming reduction but instead of reduce boon spam ANet increased the BS ability of different classes (example: Rangers, giving them the Druid specializzation) and also increased the Corruption ability of the Necromancer and added the mallyx Revenant (that can spam a Boon-Converter skill to convert boons into Confusion).

That made all the classes that can spam boons be Meta, but at the same time made the Necro a Meta class, and really strong one, for the single reason that in sPvP he Live on Boon Corrupting.
All the classes that can’t OverBuff themselves aren’t in the meta (Warrior and Guardian, for exmaple), the same for all the buiulds that can’t spam boons.
The only class that can’t spam boons but is in the meta is the necro, that can corrupt the enemy boons.

If you Reduce the boon spam you will also reduce the damage output and the efficence of the necromancer and at the same time make all the classes and builds that can’t be overbuffed all the time Viable.

Do you want to balance that game? Do the thing that we asked for a year (or more!): sto the Boon Spam!

Necro is strong because of nerfs to ele, mesmer, and warrior. To some extant revs as well.Those classes were necros primary counters. That they are all weaker now, while necros remain mostly unchanged, means that necros have much less to fear. Even guards switching from bunker/support to damage helped necros.

Silv.9207:

The necromancer is good, a really good class. But for shure is not OP or the stronger one.
A reaper is easy to burst down with 5 sec of focus, don’t have mobility, don’t have defensive skills, don’t give support to the team (only some condi absorption by plague signet, when not used). It’s damage is really good and combine direct and condition damage but can not be compared to other classes that can burst you down faster.

What make the Necro strong in this meta is basicly that is the only class that can kill Boon Spammers, or grant to the team a window to kill the enemy when he’s not overbuffed, converting they’re boons into conditions. Also can reflect condi back, but since that meta came up that ability don’t grant all that damage that everyone think, simply why there’s only few classes that use condition damage. Before HoT there was 5 classes on 8 that played conditions, now only 2 (reaper and chrono), plus revenant or some druids that want to play condi instead of the “meta” build.

The necromancer have not to be toned down why have a lot of counterplay.

The real thing that had to be toned down is the thing that make the necro so powerfull: Boon Spamming.

Is 1 year that the comunity ask for a boom spamming reduction but instead of reduce boon spam ANet increased the BS ability of different classes (example: Rangers, giving them the Druid specializzation) and also increased the Corruption ability of the Necromancer and added the mallyx Revenant (that can spam a Boon-Converter skill to convert boons into Confusion).

That made all the classes that can spam boons be Meta, but at the same time made the Necro a Meta class, and really strong one, for the single reason that in sPvP he Live on Boon Corrupting.
All the classes that can’t OverBuff themselves aren’t in the meta (Warrior and Guardian, for exmaple), the same for all the buiulds that can’t spam boons.
The only class that can’t spam boons but is in the meta is the necro, that can corrupt the enemy boons.

If you Reduce the boon spam you will also reduce the damage output and the efficence of the necromancer and at the same time make all the classes and builds that can’t be overbuffed all the time Viable.

Do you want to balance that game? Do the thing that we asked for a year (or more!): sto the Boon Spam!

I think this post will take the 2nd place on my personal hit parade GW2 forum, especially this comment:

If you Reduce the boon spam you will also reduce the damage output and the efficence of the necromancer and at the same time make all the classes and builds that can’t be overbuffed all the time Viable.

The 1st place on my hit parade still belong to that famous forum warrior ( now gone from gw2) who dared to say this during hambow meta :

“Tank builds should do no dmg”..this said in the same thread where he was defending hambow….xd

To sum it up dear folks this is my hit parade

1st) Hambow warrior who defend hambow OPness: “Tank builds should do no dmg”

2nd) Reaper who defend reapers OPness :" To nerf reapers dmg you need to nerf other professions defenses and bring them at the same level of wars"

Keep it coming folks!

I wouldn’t say reaper is the only balance problem right now. Rev, Scrapper, Double Moa, and Ele are just as broken in different ways right now. To be fair, all of the elite specs need to be toned down, these are just the ones that stick out the most right now.

I do think the boon corrupt should be removed from scepter and chill dmg should be reverted to what it was at the beginning of the expansion, when it only did half its damage on someone above 50% hp. Maybe they could also make chill slow for 33% instead of 66%. Since reaper has low mobility, no team support, a not so great power build, and no way to survive focus, our condi/boon corruption builds should still be viable.

DaShi.1368:

Necro is strong because of nerfs to ele, mesmer, and warrior. To some extant revs as well.Those classes were necros primary counters. That they are all weaker now, while necros remain mostly unchanged, means that necros have much less to fear. Even guards switching from bunker/support to damage helped necros.

Tbh meditrapper DH is about as close to a hardcounter to reapers as there is this season.

No easy solutions.

Scrappers, Tempests, and Druids have over the top group support/personal survivability in the current PvP builds.

Revenant and Reaper have very easily landed, over the top pressure while still having a good amount of defensive utility.

Continuum split Moa morph & Portal is really just the last viable profession here, I mean Chronomancer.

Looking on the bright side, they’re all equally overpowered.

The only problem is that every build that players have been using for 3 years is dead. We traded a ton of builds for a few next-level builds, it pretty much killed diversity.

Let’s just think of all the top meta builds that used to be playable, right before HoT launched.

The people who politely request that everything be nerfed, they probably just want to be able to play some of these builds again:

• Rampage Warrior
• D/F Fire & Arcana Eles
• D/D Earth & Arcana Eles
• Burn Guardian
• Bunker Guardian
• Mantra Mesmer
• PU Mesmer
• Power Grenade Rifle Engi
• Signet Classic Necro
• Shadow Arts Medic Thief
• S/D Acro Thief

And the patch before that

• Cele Engi
• Condi Engi
• DPS Meditation Guard
• Shoutbow Warrior
• Power Necro
• Non-Meta builds that actually came close, like Resbot warrior, Staff ele, Fresh Air ele, Static Discharge engi, Hambow Warrior.

It’s not just about builds either, at some point we shot to balance teamfight strategies with skirmish strategies, having to sacrifice battle strength to get portal/moa, and keeping some higher risk/reward builds in the mix instead of 5 self-sustained super-soldiers.

For the first time we added traits and an entire new profession but we kissed goodbye every build that we’ve found fun over the years, as well as Thief/Warrior/Guardian. I think later in 2014 until October 2015 is the period that set the bar for PvP profession balance in this game. Balance has improved so much since the Expansion came out, but we’re still so far from being where we were.

Anet rarely brings old build back. There are still many old GW1 builds that I miss.

DaShi.1368:

Anet rarely brings old build back. There are still many old GW1 builds that I miss.

Not really so much bringing builds back that were axed, but rather having there be 12 strong builds instead of 6 builds. They’re already there, just covered by HoT crap.

Rev vs Guardian exposes some other balance issues

Asrat.2645:

1: It is never that simple. No matter what we are talking about, there will never be only a single, easy solution.

2: Do you actually believe that if you tone down a damage dealer, people would not be ‘forced’ into bunker builds. If you can play an immortal ele, why should you play a squishy one? Some players might do it, most of them not

3: A big part of the necros strenght is, that they can actually defeat some of them truly op builds (like power scrapper or perhaps even ele)
The class itself is certainly strong, but not remotely as strong as a well played revenant, ele, scrapper or even mesmer.

4:They are also counterable. Sure they deal a lot of damage, but most of it can be negated if your team brings a good amount of aoe cleanses. They also melt extremly fast if you focus them.

Think about how it works: thief>necro>scrapper>>thief. Necros are good to counter builds that are boon heavy and rely on direct damage denial. The only reason they are so good is, because most people play those builds.
Again: the class is certainly not fine, but it is not remotely as op as some others.
The pro leagues are a good proof. Ele, rev, mesmer are standard. Scrapper, necro and ranger compete for the last 2 spots.

And you complteely forgot about the underpowered calsses. Like warriors. Just tell them they will be fine once necros are nerfed.

Everyones knee jerk reaction to nec was omg op because he can nerf my precious boons. But this was in direct response to everyone crying about the bunker meta. The necro was the fix. I mean generally they always had the ability to corrupt boons honestly. ANET only made it easier to counter act all the boon spam. When your team goes to mid or what have you what class do you usually target first? The necro because there is nothing he can do about it unless an ele is beside him. This is a sound strategy because the nec can only soak damage not negate it. If you drop him then your boons are safe, and you can go on casting protection, stability, and might with impunity. Then it becomes a war of attrition without the nec there, each side trying to kill the other before the nec can come back to muck it up.

my post is possibly written in a wrong way . The only thing i wanted to say is that necromancer is the first cause that kills build diversity . I see 2 ways to solve the problem , tune up all other builds or tune down necromancer. What is ruining this game is that is now really difficult to play non meta with many classes . I was bored from engi scrapper , really strong, and at the end , for changing , i had to pass to mesmer becouse i did not find another build really viable on engi. I tried with ele and it is the same . I think it is also for DH or for mesmer

Not really, reaper is in direct counter to scrapper/druid/tempest etc, even if you tune down reaper, it will just go back to season 1 shenanigans. Everyone is tanky, nobody dies. Those meta builds would still be popular but even more so because they are no longer held in check. Those classes are not meta because of reaper, they are meta because of their own buffs. Not as a counter to reapers.

Crimson Shi.5047:

Not really, reaper is in direct counter to scrapper/druid/tempest etc, even if you tune down reaper, it will just go back to season 1 shenanigans. Everyone is tanky, nobody dies. Those meta builds would still be popular but even more so because they are no longer held in check. Those classes are not meta because of reaper, they are meta because of their own buffs. Not as a counter to reapers.

And what counter reapers?
Oh wait…“just zerg rush them and they die” because obviously other professions survive under focus fire with no problem…oh well the meta will change so feel free to defend reaper to the last..nerfs will come anyway whether you like it or not

Actually most any class can kill a reaper, kite their shroud, stun them if they no stab. Out maneuver them since they lack mobility. I mean it’s not that hard to kill a reaper, i don’t know why it’s so hard for you to do it but not for me.

Its pretty easy to outplay them. Its only dangerous in teamfights cause there is too much stuff flying around and you may not notice every skill. But in teamfights you can focus them.
I’d say reapers are the middle ground. Slightly op but not an ‘outstanding issue’ Class 5/9 in my personal ranking. Everything above is begging for nerfs (ele, rev, scrapper, mesmer), everything below needs minor adjustments and has to wait for the op classes to come down to eye level before true balance can begin.

Chaith.8256:

No easy solutions.

Scrappers, Tempests, and Druids have over the top group support/personal survivability in the current PvP builds.

Revenant and Reaper have very easily landed, over the top pressure while still having a good amount of defensive utility.

Continuum split Moa morph & Portal is really just the last viable profession here, I mean Chronomancer.

Looking on the bright side, they’re all equally overpowered.

The only problem is that every build that players have been using for 3 years is dead. We traded a ton of builds for a few next-level builds, it pretty much killed diversity.

Let’s just think of all the top meta builds that used to be playable, right before HoT launched.

The people who politely request that everything be nerfed, they probably just want to be able to play some of these builds again:

Thanks Chaith, that’s exactly why I want (most) elite specs to be nerfed. They are way out of line and kill diversity. More need not be said.

Asrat.2645:

Its pretty easy to outplay them. Its only dangerous in teamfights cause there is too much stuff flying around and you may not notice every skill. But in teamfights you can focus them.
I’d say reapers are the middle ground. Slightly op but not an ‘outstanding issue’ Class 5/9 in my personal ranking. Everything above is begging for nerfs (ele, rev, scrapper, mesmer), everything below needs minor adjustments and has to wait for the op classes to come down to eye level before true balance can begin.

Lol what a comment…
“reapers are only dangerous in teamfights”…reaper OPness is not limited to teamfights and then you say a support ele that just heal and does nothing more, sitting at 13k hp is more OP than reaper; that build can’t 1vs1 or kill anything, merely a healbot… like..what?…How laughable

If you lose to an ele in this meta or this ele he’s stupidly good way better than your average reaper or simply you shouldn’t play pvp….

As a matter of fact I see my team 3v1ing eles on close and not getting the job done.
Its not a ‘support’ its ‘support bunker’ and a good bunker too. Just because they dont kill anything doesnt mean they are bad 1v1s.
A good ele may not be able to kill me, but I can not kill them either.
Reapers have a couple of strong skills, but you can forsee and dodge them all. They have little healing and little sustain if you dont attack them in spectral armor.
The conditions are only strong if you dont continually cleanse them.
Death shroud is strong but can be outkited.
Reapers are an easy pick in 1v1 if you know how to fight them and have some patience. The more agressive you play and the more boons you use, the harder it will be.

While i am not against changes to necro i am acutely aware that if they do it is very likely other classes will become out of control. Engi is super strong right now and there would be little to keep it in check. Same with revs and eles i think we would fast see the stand offs on points happening again.

Nerf Head Butt. It’s too OP and kills the game.

Srs.

Asrat.2645:

As a matter of fact I see my team 3v1ing eles on close and not getting the job done.
Its not a ‘support’ its ‘support bunker’ and a good bunker too. Just because they dont kill anything doesnt mean they are bad 1v1s.
A good ele may not be able to kill me, but I can not kill them either.
Reapers have a couple of strong skills, but you can forsee and dodge them all. They have little healing and little sustain if you dont attack them in spectral armor.
The conditions are only strong if you dont continually cleanse them.
Death shroud is strong but can be outkited.
Reapers are an easy pick in 1v1 if you know how to fight them and have some patience. The more agressive you play and the more boons you use, the harder it will be.

Reapers are an easy pick if you know how to fight them and ….ele can 1vs3 people regardless if they know what they’re doing or not?

Do all of us have to assume that those three fighting the ele are skilled individuals?

The bias is certainly strong

Nightshade.2570:

While i am not against changes to necro i am acutely aware that if they do it is very likely other classes will become out of control. Engi is super strong right now and there would be little to keep it in check. Same with revs and eles i think we would fast see the stand offs on points happening again.

Now necros are “happy” to see changes to reaper…weren’t you happy also for the destruction of the elements that were keeping necro in check before?

Basically you’re playing the moralist part fainting fairness asking for “nerfs” on reaper ..but at the same time you ask for nerfs on all other profession making those nerfs to reaper completely irrelevant..lol ^^

I just love all these necros playing moralist..you’re amazing

Reaper op? Well if people didn’t run the amount of condi cleanse as previously established and accepted condi food, then there would be problems. In short you pit a boon reliant, low condi cleanse build against a condition damage, boon corrupting build and expect to win?

Supreme.3164:

Reapers are an easy pick if you know how to fight them and ….ele can 1vs3 people regardless if they know what they’re doing or not?

Do all of us have to assume that those three fighting the ele are skilled individuals?

The bias is certainly strong

I did not say that. But no reaper could do that, not against the most imcompetent team out there. The sad thing is, that those three people belonged to a premade ^^

Supreme.3164:

Nightshade.2570:

While i am not against changes to necro i am acutely aware that if they do it is very likely other classes will become out of control. Engi is super strong right now and there would be little to keep it in check. Same with revs and eles i think we would fast see the stand offs on points happening again.

Now necros are “happy” to see changes to reaper…weren’t you happy also for the destruction of the elements that were keeping necro in check before?

Basically you’re playing the moralist part fainting fairness asking for “nerfs” on reaper ..but at the same time you ask for nerfs on all other profession making those nerfs to reaper completely irrelevant..lol ^^

I just love all these necros playing moralist..you’re amazing

You’re pretty biased yourself, spewing nothing but nec hate for the past two days if not longer. I play ele too, and tried my best to help. All you done is just spew the same kitten. If necs faceroll YOU maybe it’s a l2p issue.

Supreme.3164:

Asrat.2645:

Its pretty easy to outplay them. Its only dangerous in teamfights cause there is too much stuff flying around and you may not notice every skill. But in teamfights you can focus them.
I’d say reapers are the middle ground. Slightly op but not an ‘outstanding issue’ Class 5/9 in my personal ranking. Everything above is begging for nerfs (ele, rev, scrapper, mesmer), everything below needs minor adjustments and has to wait for the op classes to come down to eye level before true balance can begin.

Lol what a comment…
“reapers are only dangerous in teamfights”…reaper OPness is not limited to teamfights and then you say a support ele that just heal and does nothing more, sitting at 13k hp is more OP than reaper; that build can’t 1vs1 or kill anything, merely a healbot… like..what?…How laughable

If you lose to an ele in this meta or this ele he’s stupidly good way better than your average reaper or simply you shouldn’t play pvp….

So i assume Nos losing to ele in finals makes him average reaper ?

You are too high with your love about Eles.

You clowns should try condi thief, it absolutely destroys necros, power or condi. The fun part is when they enter reaper mode and stick to you, that is when you just spam d/d 3 and take a sip from your tea.

So much wasted effort in talking about people’s personal biases. Opinions are all subjective, no kidding, guys.

In my opinion, balance right now is a tug of war between Rev & Necro vs. Ele & Engi. Of course if the carry classes were nerfed, the supports would be unchecked & vice-versa.

The problem is that everything else is benched with some notable exceptions like Portal, Continuum Split-Moa, and Search & Rescue. Need more options than just that for the game to be maximum fun.

necromancers are stuck playing a dps role in a sustain meta.

If you nerf their damage, they need their sustain brought up to be like revenant and engineer.

and if you remove their dps then you also need to nerf ele sustain and bring up their dps.

that’s what balance is about after all.