Guild Wars 2

Here is another kittened up game.

Its a kittening gamble, you see the team score? One team is in the 200s and the other team not 1 person in 3 digits.

It was 5v5, but that gamble of having all the newbs on your team is real.

I was 1 win over 50%, now I’m 12 losses under 50%.

So many stupid kitten matches, in a row.

IF you ask me, that MMR stacking people on leaderboards vs people not on leaderboards due to lack of players playing PvP… Because stupid kitten MMR. Making people not want to play this kitten. And all these newplayers have bad experiences.

Game after game shouldn’t be 2 digits to people in 200s+. MMR is kittening off.

I wasnt trying to proof or dis-proof anything. My point is:

You can talk statistics all day long, it doesnt change how people FEEL.

Well duh, they’re broken in that you jump around too much with few games not because bad players are able to stay top10 or anything. It’s pretty difficult to get top 5/10. There are actually alot more factors than mentioned. If you queue at night / early morning so OCX/EU times the players are substantially worse (or just have bad ping) and there are alot fewer so the leaderboards will usually end up putting say a top 100 player against anybody it can find.

uberkingkong.8041:

Here is another kittened up game.

Its a kittening gamble, you see the team score? One team is in the 200s and the other team not 1 person in 3 digits.

It was 5v5, but that gamble of having all the newbs on your team is real.

I was 1 win over 50%, now I’m 12 losses under 50%.

So many stupid kitten matches, in a row.

IF you ask me, that MMR stacking people on leaderboards vs people not on leaderboards due to lack of players playing PvP… Because stupid kitten MMR. Making people not want to play this kitten. And all these newplayers have bad experiences.

Game after game shouldn’t be 2 digits to people in 200s+. MMR is kittening off.

The fact you think that people not having 3 digit numbers at the end of a game is the cause is a bit funny. Score hardly reflects the impact of a player in the game or their skill.

Example: A thief decapping points and running around just tagging kills could be the worst player on a team and the best being a bunker guard but the guard was just sitting on a capped mid (hypothetically) and trying to support his team all game could have the lowest.

Oh that guardian sitting on point could be the best player, but if you have bad solo que matchup and lose all your team fights which creates the other team to have such a high score vs your team with such a low score that best player guardian doesn’t even matter because your team loses every single fight.

@yasi: if you depend on having a good team to win soloq and complain that it is all luck then you are the main problem in your games, I’ve won lots of 4v5s and they do not happen nearly as frequently as 1/10

@uber: you should not have your stun break on x, that key is harder to hit and you will be delayed, this probably hurts your game play quite a bit by not having instant reactions to cc. Also warrior and engy are probably the easiest classes to carry a match with, push far win 1v1s and give your team a huge advantage or go mid and gib people and win the team fight, if you cannot reliably do this even with noob team mates then it is your fault that you lose :/

Wow, zirith. How about you read the whole thread or even the whole post before picking things right out of their context. But maybe you could at least read the whole TOPIC.

This thread is… for your information… about SOLO QUE… dunno how you get a 1v10 in solo que at all. And empty solo que games arent anything that happens either.

So funny… trying to flame others and stepping right into it

SoloQ (aka solo que aka solo queue) = SOLO ARENA. Not hotjoin (aka play now).

Lopez.7369:

Keybindings are highly subjective. My Spectral Armor is on Z, and it works fine.

Well ya it can be fine if you always have a finger on your stunbreak, otherwise there is a delay that could make you take tons of extra damage, I guess it really isnt that important for necro because of the life force regen while sitting in ds, but for pretty much every other class it makes a huge diff.

I personally use mb4 for my main stunbreak util, it also makes spikes with guard, thief, mes, and ele way easier to pull off.

Yasi.9065:

Wow, zirith. How about you read the whole thread or even the whole post before picking things right out of their context. But maybe you could at least read the whole TOPIC.

This thread is… for your information… about SOLO QUE… dunno how you get a 1v10 in solo que at all. And empty solo que games arent anything that happens either.

So funny… trying to flame others and stepping right into it

SoloQ (aka solo que aka solo queue) = SOLO ARENA. Not hotjoin (aka play now).

???

1/10 = 10%, not 1v10 :/

The only issue I have with solo queue right now is the leavers. The luck aspect is only slightly different than what a lot of MOBA games face in their solo queues. The bigger issue is the number of active pvpers on the ladder to begin with. Not only that, but they need to find a way to punish players from leaving games.

Guild Wars 2 has a lot of potential when it comes to PvP. Unfortunately, a lot of people have given up hope that updates will come in a time quick enough to make a difference. But, its free to play, so we can play this game whenever we want without having to look at a sub.

Solo queue isn’t 100% luck. Although, there is a big portion of luck that comes in playing with random people. But, just like in MOBA games, if the player is good enough, they can carry their team. It may not always result in a win, but you’ll win more than you lose.

Khang.6743:

The only issue I have with solo queue right now is the leavers. The luck aspect is only slightly different than what a lot of MOBA games face in their solo queues. The bigger issue is the number of active pvpers on the ladder to begin with. Not only that, but they need to find a way to punish players from leaving games.

Guild Wars 2 has a lot of potential when it comes to PvP. Unfortunately, a lot of people have given up hope that updates will come in a time quick enough to make a difference. But, its free to play, so we can play this game whenever we want without having to look at a sub.

Solo queue isn’t 100% luck. Although, there is a big portion of luck that comes in playing with random people. But, just like in MOBA games, if the player is good enough, they can carry their team. It may not always result in a win, but you’ll win more than you lose.

What do suggest Anet do? They already implemented a pretty decent punishment 3 day ban from tourney’s if you dc or leave from a match 3x in a day. Some players are complaining that’s to harsh.

vincecontix.1264:

What do suggest Anet do? They already implemented a pretty decent punishment 3 day ban from tourney’s if you dc or leave from a match 3x in a day. Some players are complaining that’s to harsh.

Ready button that functions; Fixed.

vincecontix.1264:

Khang.6743:

The only issue I have with solo queue right now is the leavers. The luck aspect is only slightly different than what a lot of MOBA games face in their solo queues. The bigger issue is the number of active pvpers on the ladder to begin with. Not only that, but they need to find a way to punish players from leaving games.

Guild Wars 2 has a lot of potential when it comes to PvP. Unfortunately, a lot of people have given up hope that updates will come in a time quick enough to make a difference. But, its free to play, so we can play this game whenever we want without having to look at a sub.

Solo queue isn’t 100% luck. Although, there is a big portion of luck that comes in playing with random people. But, just like in MOBA games, if the player is good enough, they can carry their team. It may not always result in a win, but you’ll win more than you lose.

What do suggest Anet do? They already implemented a pretty decent punishment 3 day ban from tourney’s if you dc or leave from a match 3x in a day. Some players are complaining that’s to harsh.

I honestly don’t know what they can do. Since its an issue in just about every game that has a ranked ladder.

I think most people just need to understand (myself included) that its the nature of the beast.

Two teams… one team consists of 4 baddies and one pro, the other of 5 pros… and you really think that one pro can carry those 4 baddies to victory against 5 pros?

Different scenario… 5 egoists on one team, 3 team-oriented players on the other with only 2 egoists that they have to balance out. Wanna bet not a single of those 5 egoists is going to “carry” his team to victory?

I dont know what kind of solo arena games you are getting, but usually, mine are so unbalanced in terms of skills (and I include map awareness, teamplay etc there as well, not just how well someone plays a certain build) that even if I play the perfect game, I simply can not carry the whole team. Because on the other team there are at least 2-3 equally skilled players, PLAYING TOGETHER and simply outplaying me.

For example… a few days ago I got a solo arena game where my team went against 3 thieves (+ 1 mesmer and 1 guardian)… those three thieves were so bad, it was hilarious. One was just spamming hs – so clichee – the other clearly didnt know what his skills did, he was using s/d and jumping all over the place often getting himself stuck somewhere or evading off the clocktower… but the third one… that one was the best… he was running idk what build, but he was only using sb2 and 4. No kidding, only sb2+4.
Those thieves, they didnt even run together most of the time… and still, my teammates managed to DIE to them 1on1. Or they would go against one thief 2v1 / 3v1, and still take forever to kill them… off point most of the time too -.-
I cant go save everyone there, I cant even keep more than one point capped at a time in such a situation.
We lost, not by < landslide, but still lost by about 70 points. I managed to keep the score that close. But there was simply NO WAY to win. I even switched to mesmer with portal to decap/cap two points, but it was essentially a 1v3, where the other team won just because they had 2 more people capping.

Now explain to me, how one is supposed to “carry” the whole team there? And believe me, I tried everything there.

Btw, that game went on during prime time NA on NA servers. Gonna be the last time in a long time I play solo que during prime time, in my experience, my “luck” with teammates isnt quite as bad outside prime time, even though my queue takes more than 5 minutes there… but those 5-10 minutes, I wait gladly.

About those afk’ers and leavers… you dont really need draconic punishments. Just give 15 minutes timer to those, and as soon as someone disconnects → spot filled by someone else in queue.

Its actually how just about every moba and mmo handles this. Some add a statistical punishment, like if someone leaves a game it’s an automatical loose, or a separate statistic on how many games left etc.

Yasi.9065:

Two teams… one team consists of 4 baddies and one pro, the other of 5 pros… and you really think that one pro can carry those 4 baddies to victory against 5 pros?

Different scenario… 5 egoists on one team, 3 team-oriented players on the other with only 2 egoists that they have to balance out. Wanna bet not a single of those 5 egoists is going to “carry” his team to victory?

I dont know what kind of solo arena games you are getting, but usually, mine are so unbalanced in terms of skills (and I include map awareness, teamplay etc there as well, not just how well someone plays a certain build) that even if I play the perfect game, I simply can not carry the whole team. Because on the other team there are at least 2-3 equally skilled players, PLAYING TOGETHER and simply outplaying me.

For example… a few days ago I got a solo arena game where my team went against 3 thieves (+ 1 mesmer and 1 guardian)… those three thieves were so bad, it was hilarious. One was just spamming hs – so clichee – the other clearly didnt know what his skills did, he was using s/d and jumping all over the place often getting himself stuck somewhere or evading off the clocktower… but the third one… that one was the best… he was running idk what build, but he was only using sb2 and 4. No kidding, only sb2+4.
Those thieves, they didnt even run together most of the time… and still, my teammates managed to DIE to them 1on1. Or they would go against one thief 2v1 / 3v1, and still take forever to kill them… off point most of the time too -.-
I cant go save everyone there, I cant even keep more than one point capped at a time in such a situation.
We lost, not by < landslide, but still lost by about 70 points. I managed to keep the score that close. But there was simply NO WAY to win. I even switched to mesmer with portal to decap/cap two points, but it was essentially a 1v3, where the other team won just because they had 2 more people capping.

Now explain to me, how one is supposed to “carry” the whole team there? And believe me, I tried everything there.

Btw, that game went on during prime time NA on NA servers. Gonna be the last time in a long time I play solo que during prime time, in my experience, my “luck” with teammates isnt quite as bad outside prime time, even though my queue takes more than 5 minutes there… but those 5-10 minutes, I wait gladly.

With all due respect, if the only games you play are at those extremes, theres likely something else going on there. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve played those games, we all have. But, by no means are they the majority of the games I play. Its a mixed bag.

The idea is simple. Everyone is dealing with the same skill variance, no one is more lucky or less lucky than you. That isn’t to say people with a smaller sample of games have a higher rank based on a flawed ladder system. But, I do believe that the people with 60%+ win ratio with hundreds of games played are helping carry some of their teams through that bad match ups.

Out of 3-5 games I play every day, I get at least 2 that are that unbalanced when I queue during prime time.

Yasi.9065:

Out of 3-5 games I play every day, I get at least 2 that are that unbalanced when I queue during prime time.

I believe that. There are a lot of things about this game that could be made better. But, that isn’t to say SoloQ is only about luck. All I’m saying..

This is how i see the luck aspect.

If youre higher rated (like top 200) and play during peak hours or queue sync you tend to play vs relatively evenly matched players. Doing something good in those teams (like keeping 2 busy) has an effect on the rest of your team.

If you are that top 200 guy and play during off hours your teams are a mix of every type of player within every MMR range. With such huge gaps in skill and experience levels within the same team games are more luckbased (than if a team is relatively even).

Players at lower rating just run around chasing thieves with 3 teammates, stomping or capping points with 2-3 etc. So doing something good has less effect on the rest of your team in teams like that.

I find carrying in lower rated teams a lot harder since matches tend to be blowouts (like the screenshots below). More 4v5s and bigger gap in skill. And playing in lower rated teams means you have to win more to maintain your current MMR aswell, so playing during the weekend for me ends up in a downward spiral in most cases.

I tend to play a lot durning the off hours, like 1am to 5am centeral time because I PvE durning the prime times since a lot is going on.

And yes like you said its very huge range in MMR and I’ve noticed huge increase in losses because I’m stacked with 4 baddies majority of the time and the other team is like all leaderboard players. Just recently I went from 50% win loss ratio out of 500 games to a 48% win loss ratio by going 11 games under. And its not that its every now and then, its like a constant loss after loss after loss. And before you say I suck, I’ll have you know I was in the 300s on the leaderboards for a good while, then all of a sudden I hit a string of bad luck and I believe once you get to some spot on leaderboard your teams start to get uneven. You cannot go anywhere when the other team is always better than your team. It doesn’t matter if your good, if the other team is just as good as you and the rest of your team is baddies, than your not going anywhere.

Also I stun break just fine, its just when you get attacked by coordinated team, you don’t have any chance at blocking all there attacks at all, they are going to immbolize you, stun you, daze you, make you not able to do anything till you die. That’s the difference between a good team and a bad team. A good team will stick on target, a bad team will pick who they think is the weakiest link and not everyone will stick on target.

Again solo que is a gamble, I’d tell you that flipping a coin is a gamble as well, and skill does help you get somewhere, but with bad matchmaking system, if your constantly getting baddies on your team and the other team is all people that is your skill level than your not going to get anywhere.

Another thing, people dc’ing hurts a lot too, cant tell you how many I’ve had recently that we was winning by 250 than all sudden 2 people on my team dc’ed and we lose the game. And its like 6 mins and they never come back, which pretty much tells me they just decided something else was more important. Well I know life comes first, but me and those 2 other guys be hurting from this person decision that pvp just wasn’t important enough.

They need to add the tournament tickets back into the game which you achieve from hotjoins, that way solo que feels more important and not just something you can grind all day and not care about.

You see this… Another 4v5 game… GAME STARTS WITH 4V5. For some reason I keep being on the team with 4 people and those are the games that are even team comp/ I should be winning, than the next games I get all the baddies. Which doesn’t give me 50/50, it gives me a more of a 30wins/70losses type ratio, which makes people just want to quit and not play PvP.

You need to give people incentives to stay into the tpvp matches, and frankly anet, your not doing this. This isn’t a give the top players incentives, this is a keep players into tpvp incentive type thing your failing at.

wat.

How is maintaining top 100 hard with temporary decay?

1. Get into top 100 by luck.

2. Play a game every now and then and hope you win.

3. Maintain top 100.

4. Pretend you’re good.

A few of my friends do this for solo queue leaderboards and maintained top 25 easily. I myself have floated around the top 25 for team queues for over 4 months with this method, 2 of which I was inactive and only team queued when I was extremely bored.

Leaderboard means jack.

Are you guys retahded? Top #25 MLG esports yolo only.

Rubik.7192:

wat.

How is maintaining top 100 hard with temporary decay?

1. Get into top 100 by luck.

2. Play a game every now and then and hope you win.

3. Maintain top 100.

4. Pretend you’re good.

A few of my friends do this for solo queue leaderboards and maintained top 25 easily. I myself have floated around the top 25 for team queues for over 4 months with this method, 2 of which I was inactive and only team queued when I was extremely bored.

Leaderboard means jack.

But Everyone could have gotten lucky!
Only the best players get lucky consistently.

Renny.6571:

Are you guys retahded? Top #25 MLG esports yolo only.

Anet wants you to buy more “new” accounts =]

The default seeded rating hasn’t changed, but most people playing have already fallen below the default. So any new account can be at the top with just a handful of wins.

all is vain

Imho the problem hides somwhere else, and the frustration that makes you feel mad is not directly from ‘bad luck’ and/or ‘anet does not care about pvp’ and/or ‘broken MMR system’ etc…

My personal frustration comes from the feeling of helplessness. That there are too many factors out of my reach. I never start crying right in the beginning of a game if we are 4v5. I find it a great challange – but when it only brings me unwinnable fights (1v2, 1v3, etc.) it makes me wanna rip my hair out. I’m not close to anything spectacular, my highest ranking was around 93% so I didnt even make it to the numbered spots. Sometimes I get into matches where I’m a complete beast, ripping through everyone I encounter, winning all 1v1s and winning all even matchups (2v2, 3v3, etc.), and even some outnumbered situations – without dying once. Sometimes I get to games where I get stomped even by (non-existing) critters on the map. Even though the first case is a little better, but that does not make me feel good either. Playing guys much higher or lower than you removes any excitement. And you cant control that, its just how matchmaking works. 6-7 of my games are always above or below my skill lvl by a lot. So I hardly get to play in an environment that can be called competitive compared to my skill level, and my score can hardly be called ‘representative’.

Then there is skyhammer, 4v5, afkers, dc-ed ppl… All the negative factors even out in the long run I know. The problem is that they disconnect your skill and efforts from your score. And these factors take a good 80-90% percent of your actual score/rank. The top players who manage to keep their spots up there still only have access to that 10-20% and have to depend on luck for the rest. Thats why you never see their win ratio being double than the – lets say – top300 players’. They may win 5-10-15% more games than others, but thats it. If the scoreboard was truly representative, top players had much higher win ratios. They also get overwhelmed by factors out of their control. And the very few situations where team-comp, 4v5, noobs, etc. do not destroy their chances of winning can their skills shine. But those situations only yield a slight adventage in win ratio. Its like out of a hundred games 85 gets decided by coin-toss, and you only get to play 15 that are not based on luck.

So all in all: HELPLESSNESS. That is the feeling that takes over you when you are in that 85%. (And that includes won games too btw, when I feel like I could have been afking all game and we still would have win the match.) Only that 15% keeps the pvp spirit alive in me, where every move matters. How fast you get to a capture point? Do you know all the teleports on the map? Did you win your 1v1 5 sec faster than an enemy player did on an other key-point? Is it gonna give you that 497-500 win? Unfortunately I hardly ever get to a situation where the answers to the above questions matter at all…

solo que is a land of high skill, builds that require actively reacting to passive effects rein supreme:

- Sword dagger thieves for calculating their next fire and air procs as they counter mesmers by killing clones.

- Spirit ranger by using proper positioning and waiting for the right moment to use other shortbow skills

- Minion mancers for stacking their immobs expertly with their pets and dagger to finish off people in a fight of pure skill.

- Turret rifle engis for using next level positioning to land every knockback and control the point.

- Condi warriors for obviously counting dodges and timing skills like impale and pin-down to rek their opponents.

hehk.8705:

solo que is a land of high skill, builds that require actively reacting to passive effects rein supreme:

- Sword dagger thieves for calculating their next fire and air procs as they counter mesmers by killing clones.

- Spirit ranger by using proper positioning and waiting for the right moment to use other shortbow skills

- Minion mancers for stacking their immobs expertly with their pets and dagger to finish off people in a fight of pure skill.

- Turret rifle engis for using next level positioning to land every knockback and control the point.

- Condi warriors for obviously counting dodges and timing skills like impale and pin-down to rek their opponents.

That’s my dream team for ToL

Assuming matching-making works in all % ranges in LB, I somewhat agree. Given that your team is evenly matched, a player can carry the team through consistently if he is much better than most players on the enemy team.

For the cases of match-making that does not work, 1 person cannot make a huge difference in a 5 v 5 game. Even if you are better than every person on the other team, if your teammates are worse, you will lose.

In my opinion, match-making does not work well due to low queue population and/or the algorithm they use. So yes it is luck atm.