Guild Wars 2

The strongest elite in the game, utterly broken , on a 50second cd with f5 and alacrity.

It was already broken with the regular cooldown. Just arguing its hard to land when you can just lock people into a cc with sword/shield doesn´t justify a skill that freekills someone even in a 1v1 withing 5 seconds , on a stupidly short cooldown.

No counter, no fun, completely broken.

Yes moa is a problem when you got 13k hp as elementalist. I dont know why you come up with reaper and scrapper here, that is as off topic as it gets. Maybe write again when you got something to say on topic.

Mesmer don´t just have 1 effective skill left, they are the strongest 1v1 class even without moa and with 1 utility as portal.

FirehawkDAR.9021:

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Reaper, scrapper and a number of other specs are broken beyond help and your problem is moa? Lemme guess, you play necro and can’t stomach that mesmers still have one actually effective skill left.

Tbh, moa might as well be a 5 second daze. You don’t see anybody else with this ability.
ANET: " Here, let us give mesmers the ability to temporarily take away all of the skills and utilities that make you, you. Not only that, but we’ll make it really hard to see the casting animation by giving mesmers the visual spam of a 4 year old with a can of paint."

Dragonhunter is not even playable on a high level. You don´t get what this topic is about? It is not a comparison between what skills / classes are the most broken.

It is to raise awareness of how stupid moa is and that it needs a change, either better defensive abilities like cleanse stunbreak , proper armor value or less duration etc.

It’s a great skill for PvE and should be untouched there whereas for PvP it needs both duration and cooldown cut in half. Players aren’t big HP sink elite mobs.

Hendrix.9763:

FirehawkDAR.9021:

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Reaper, scrapper and a number of other specs are broken beyond help and your problem is moa? Lemme guess, you play necro and can’t stomach that mesmers still have one actually effective skill left.

Tbh, moa might as well be a 5 second daze. You don’t see anybody else with this ability.

You mean like engi’s Toss exlir x ? Whoosppiiiee!!!!!!!!!

L2Dodge.

you cant dodge moa when the mesmer uses shield 5 and sword 3 to lock you down. It´s not a l2dodge issue. Also the animation is really questionable for such a skill.
Same with the condi bursts, there is no visible animation that kills you such as mirror blade/berserker on traditional power mesmer.

Blackjack.5621:

you cant dodge moa when the mesmer uses shield 5 and sword 3 to lock you down

Thats a shame – too bad there wasn’t a skill that breaks stun and unable to dodge sword clone or cleanse….

All hope is lost quick abadon your ship

I remember getting Moaed once. And killed the mesmer who did it, as a Moa. Gutted for him.

Moa, from my experience, is very powerful and is a guaranteed kill if the team focuses down the moa in a team fight, even 1v1 if you get moa’d at low health it will at least force a decap on the player defending the point. However, I see this as a good thing because it is an elite skill with a long cool down and even in big team fights if there is no coordination at all the moa will easily get away so it can only fulfill its potential with coordination.

Moa is blockable, dodgeable and has a ridiculously long cast that can be interrupted. This is a learn to play issue.

Personally I really like moa… My only issue with it is that you lose your heal/utilities… Another option is to increase the damage we do as moa so we have atleast some kind of recourse other than mashing 5, dodge, dodge, 2 to leap away, and hope we aren’t dead.

Edit: Also having the ability to jump would be nice, it sucks that we can hardly move in certain areas such as mid point in khylo. Show me one bird that isn’t hobbled and can’t atleast hop. Also I downed a mesmer yesterday, he moa’d me, I pecked him a few times, he tried to run, I leaped w/ #2, downed and stomped the bugger… Revenge is sweet…

suffish.4150:

because it is an elite skill with a long cool down.

It´s a 50sec cd on your f5 with alacrity

Ithilwen.1529:

Moa is blockable, dodgeable and has a ridiculously long cast that can be interrupted. This is a learn to play issue.

Not all classes have blocks or stunbreaks. It is not dodgeable from sword3/shield 5 cc combo.

i love how people say that moa is blockable, dodgeable and has a ridiculously long cast and you can t see the mesmer casting that because of the visual spamfest.

Vex.9437:

i love how people say that moa is blockable, dodgeable and has a ridiculously long cast and you can t see the mesmer casting that because of the visual spamfest.

Basically this. Even if moa has questionable problems by itself, the thing that really annoys me is that you can succesfully cast it with 0 set up cause of the clusterfights

I also like it when people say that sth. which is broken doesn’t deserve a nerf because there is sth. which is even more broken.

Non-sense-logic 100%

you guys again and again ,learn to read mes skill tooltips before you ever post on forum complaining about mes skills .
thanks.

pathetic post again btw

Krysard.1364:

Vex.9437:

i love how people say that moa is blockable, dodgeable and has a ridiculously long cast and you can t see the mesmer casting that because of the visual spamfest.

Basically this. Even if moa has questionable problems by itself, the thing that really annoys me is that you can succesfully cast it with 0 set up cause of the clusterfights

so fixing the spamfest

by your logic other powerful skills are much harder to see since many have less than 1 s casting time like engi gyro , ranger S&R necro chill lol and passive procs
so why picking up moa srsly ?

Blackjack.5621:

The strongest elite in the game, utterly broken , on a 50second cd with f5 and alacrity.

It was already broken with the regular cooldown. Just arguing its hard to land when you can just lock people into a cc with sword/shield doesn´t justify a skill that freekills someone even in a 1v1 withing 5 seconds , on a stupidly short cooldown.

No counter, no fun, completely broken.

I’m fine with it, as long as (censor) Shatter mesmer is buffed at the same time. Quite alot, in fact.

Edit: censored “kittenter”.

Blackjack.5621:

suffish.4150:

because it is an elite skill with a long cool down.

It´s a 50sec cd on your f5 with alacrity

Ithilwen.1529:

Moa is blockable, dodgeable and has a ridiculously long cast that can be interrupted. This is a learn to play issue.

Not all classes have blocks or stunbreaks. It is not dodgeable from sword3/shield 5 cc combo.

all classes have stunbreaks .

could you pathetic liars at least try a bit harder rather than posting something like this ?

Yes moa is broken: you’re locked out of your profession for 10 freaking seconds. Once in moa there’s 0 counterplay. Did I say it lasts 10 freaking seconds ?

But these threads are hopeless because ANET doesn’t give a kitten.

Blackjack.5621:

suffish.4150:

because it is an elite skill with a long cool down.

It´s a 50sec cd on your f5 with alacrity

Ithilwen.1529:

Moa is blockable, dodgeable and has a ridiculously long cast that can be interrupted. This is a learn to play issue.

Not all classes have blocks or stunbreaks. It is not dodgeable from sword3/shield 5 cc combo.

mesmer F5 cd is longer than 50 sec so stop lying
and “Not all classes have blocks or STUNBREAKS” what game are you playing?
this is a L2P issue

Blackjack.5621:

The strongest elite in the game, utterly broken , on a 50second cd with f5 and alacrity.

It was already broken with the regular cooldown. Just arguing its hard to land when you can just lock people into a cc with sword/shield doesn´t justify a skill that freekills someone even in a 1v1 withing 5 seconds , on a stupidly short cooldown.

No counter, no fun, completely broken.

if you cant dodge sword 3 and shield 5 .you are a noob .

and about no counter part , pathetic liar . blind , evade , block , los and even in moa form you have skill 2 and 5 to escape ,also your traits are still working .

Ara.4569:

Yes moa is broken: you’re locked out of your profession for 10 freaking seconds. Once in moa there’s 0 counterplay. Did I say it lasts 10 freaking seconds ?

But these threads are hopeless because ANET doesn’t give a kitten.

moa has skills to escape .thats it , reading is too hard .

also before that so called 10 freaking seconds happens ,there are many many ways to avoid getting moaed .and mes does need effort to pull off moa kill usually with teammates focus fire on moa too .

Same old story.. Moa complainers that cant stomach the only 1 mesmer elite that can counter tankies. Like no one can dodge or evade or even block this obvious animation. (being sarcastic) No it’s to hard. To all complainers, Git Gud & leave my chicken alone.

Vex.9437:

i love how people say that moa is blockable, dodgeable and has a ridiculously long cast and you can t see the mesmer casting that because of the visual spamfest.

So the issue really is trouble seeing tells due to particle effects…….clearly should nerf skills rather than taking down particle effects…. cuz logic

dominik.9721:

I also like it when people say that sth. which is broken doesn’t deserve a nerf because there is sth. which is even more broken.

Non-sense-logic 100%

It even better when you see players complain about every class that kills them.

so what really happened is op went against a team that had a mesmer – got catfished into a perfectly executed moa combo and now going full tilt in an attempt to weaken that team in case of potential future match ups.

Blackjack just remember: Dodge s3 and s5 and moa afterwards. U have only 2 dodges? L2P!

Patrick.2987:

Blackjack just remember: Dodge s3 and s5 and moa afterwards. U have only 2 dodges? L2P!

you can also condi cleanse to s3 or kill clone before mes swap or walk away ,
you can stunbreak after getting stunned by s5 also stability

try a bit harder next time plz

condi mesmer with double moa will wipe ur team at mid. imagine as ele with 13k hp u get moa, u try to press 5 skill to run only to find u have 15 stack of torment u die trying to survive? balance i guess. when bunker got nerf, getting moa during fight even 1v1 will be the end of u. unless t he mesmer sucks lol

condi cleanse against a condi mes and get the immob while 4 other condis cover it does not work all the time. If u stunbreak the first daze u have to take care of the returning shield aswell. If u think moa is balanced, compare it to other elites. Moa and Portal were broken since they existed and some times the only reason to play mes.

Blackjack.5621:

Yes moa is a problem when you got 13k hp as elementalist. I dont know why you come up with reaper and scrapper here, that is as off topic as it gets. Maybe write again when you got something to say on topic.

Mesmer don´t just have 1 effective skill left, they are the strongest 1v1 class even without moa and with 1 utility as portal.

Why are you running 13k hp build as an elementalist in spvp? Thieves can hit you 1-2 hits really quick with that kind of hp, and they don’t even need the time to setup clones for shatter as well as a 1s cast time of signet of humility.

Ithilwen.1529:

Moa is blockable, dodgeable and has a ridiculously long cast that can be interrupted. This is a learn to play issue.

…and pretty much everything that scrappers and revenants have is blockable, dodgeable, and have cast times. So I guess everyone that complains about revenants and scrappers just have a L2P issue.

Also since when was 1sec considered “ridiculously long?”

FirehawkDAR.9021:

It´s a 50sec cd on your f5 with alacrity

50 seconds? I call hax! If you can prove it that moa can be cast so frquently with alacricity, I’m going to report you to anet to ban your account, because moa signet with trait is 144 seconds, 180 without. After the second cast for which the 90 sec F5 is needed you will have to wait out the full CD meaning it’s mathematically impossible to spam moa by 50 sec intervals consecutively. So get your facts straight before spouting blatant lies.

evanlegion.7680:

mesmer F5 cd is longer than 50 sec so stop lying

if you guys are gonna defend mesmer/moa, you should probably test stuff first before spouting out nonsense.

first moa cast should always be under the effects of f5. it is stupid not to do that. a second moa cast (using the actual cooldown) needs to be avoided unless you really have to to win a teamfight. (if 2nd moa is cast in a 1v1, what the hell were you trying to accomplish that you didn’t do in the first moa? a double moa anywhere outside of a teamfight is a horrible play).

this means the decent, repetitive moa has a cd equal to f5 in most cases. since illusions is pretty much guaranteed, this puts f5 at a cd of 76.5s. with the effects of alacrity, a rough guess at 50s isn’t unreasonable. under full effect constantly, it puts it at ~57s.

under the incredible,very well managed test of me spamming 2-3 clone shatters and using SoI (which is actually pretty close to mesmer gameplay right now) using the ranked queue as a timer, i got 63s of moa cd. (with no improved alac). using f5 out of comabt and then using mind wracks/cry of frustration of cooldown got me ~71s.

is that more than 50s? yeah. is it substantially less than 180s? yes. don’t be stupid.

Dethl.2875:

FirehawkDAR.9021:

It´s a 50sec cd on your f5 with alacrity

50 seconds? I call hax! If you can prove it that moa can be cast so frquently with alacricity, I’m going to report you to anet to ban your account, because moa signet with trait is 144 seconds, 180 without. After the second cast for which the 90 sec F5 is needed you will have to wait out the full CD meaning it’s mathematically impossible to spam moa by 50 sec intervals consecutively. So get your facts straight before spouting blatant lies.

evanlegion.7680:

mesmer F5 cd is longer than 50 sec so stop lying

if you guys are gonna defend mesmer/moa, you should probably test stuff first before spouting out nonsense.

first moa cast should always be under the effects of f5. it is stupid not to do that. a second moa cast (using the actual cooldown) needs to be avoided unless you really have to to win a teamfight. (if 2nd moa is cast in a 1v1, what the hell were you trying to accomplish that you didn’t do in the first moa? a double moa anywhere outside of a teamfight is a horrible play).

this means the decent, repetitive moa has a cd equal to f5 in most cases. since illusions is pretty much guaranteed, this puts f5 at a cd of 76.5s. with the effects of alacrity, a rough guess at 50s isn’t unreasonable. under full effect constantly, it puts it at ~57s.

under the incredible,very well managed test of me spamming 2-3 clone shatters and using SoI (which is actually pretty close to mesmer gameplay right now) using the ranked queue as a timer, i got 63s of moa cd. (with no improved alac). using f5 out of comabt and then using mind wracks/cry of frustration of cooldown got me ~71s.

is that more than 50s? yeah. is it substantially less than 180s? yes. don’t be stupid.

do it in actual pvp on an actual build please .

.well at least you tried far better than most complainers in this thread.

“spamming 2-3 clone shatters” you meant you well managed to wasted all your damage skills and finally you could use moa 5-6 times in a match even we assume every moa success , you still need at least one teammate around you for the actual kill .
your mes playstyle looks more like a burden to me .

the usual cooldown of f5 is around 75-90s depending your fight .

If you play mes like that , please be my opponent , easy win for me

I’d say:

1. Halve the duration of moa to ~5s on a 90s cooldown in pvp and,
2. Swap Time Warp with Portal, making Time Warp a regular utility Glamour and put Portal back on a 90s cooldown as an elite skill and reduce the duration of Time warp to ~7s with a 90s cooldown.
3. Make F5 not work with elites.

why no1 complain about engineer aoe moa?
must be engineer not using it much, engineer shld start using them more

Blackjack you play ele you can heal the kitten out of everyone. Wash The Pain Away is such an overpowered skill. Not forgetting that you have a load of auras and can basically heal someone for 10k in 3s. Just because there’s one skill that makes elementalist easy to kill doesn’t mean it’s way more overpowered than the insane healing on ele. If you want moa to get a nerf then there are countless of skills and traits that definitely need one too. So don’t whine just cause a skill counters you

This is not the thread about ele, scrapper, necro and rev need a nerf aswell it is about a broken mechanic. Sure on engi it is strong aswell but at least duration is short.

The only thing I don’t like about Polymorphs is that they happen without much warning, as looking at the enemy doesn’t help much wyhen the action is so fast and hectic and there’s so much noise.

I’d rather have both skills create a visible area that ‘charges’ then unleashes the effect after 1 pulse. Even if it meant Mesmer gets an AoE Polymorph like Engineer.

Curunen.8729:

I’d say:

1. Halve the duration of moa to ~5s on a 90s cooldown in pvp and,
2. Swap Time Warp with Portal, making Time Warp a regular utility Glamour and put Portal back on a 90s cooldown as an elite skill and reduce the duration of Time warp to ~7s with a 90s cooldown.
3. Make F5 not work with elites.

1.if you guys hate moa so much , rework is much betetr than nerfing it to 5s on 90s cd ,lets say after that it will be a trash skill since it is only used to kill tank build in team fight .5s moa with skill5 evade its 4s for a kill . worse than engi toolbelt skill which is 120s but aoe 3s moa duration which only has 1/2 s cast time ,also much harder to see the animation on engi than mes .

2.you know the concept : if something isnt broken , dont fix it .

3.if f5 doesnt work with elite ,mes elites need a massive cd reduce .current cd especially timewrap was this freaking long partly due to chrono (also glamour CDR trait doesnt reduce timewrap cd )

speak about this, i like how anet always refused to split skills but only made special sets of rule towards mesmer lol

in this thread you can say by making mes skills with special rules

,anet did prove that this way noobs do get confused in this very thread lol

Patrick.2987:

This is not the thread about ele, scrapper, necro and rev need a nerf aswell it is about a broken mechanic. Sure on engi it is strong aswell but at least duration is short.

LOL but of course what better way to claim a skill is broken than to remove anything that would make this seem silly. " We are going to remove numbers above 1, Therefore 1 is the highest number in the world – go ahead and prove me wrong"

Shouldn’t the main class an elite is for be more powerful than a class copy version?

musu.9205:

do it in actual pvp on an actual build please .

.well at least you tried far better than most complainers in this thread.

“spamming 2-3 clone shatters” you meant you well managed to wasted all your damage skills and finally you could use moa 5-6 times in a match even we assume every moa success , you still need at least one teammate around you for the actual kill .
your mes playstyle looks more like a burden to me .

the usual cooldown of f5 is around 75-90s depending your fight .

If you play mes like that , please be my opponent , easy win for me

Have you played PvP lately? Seriously? Condi mesmer is what 90% of ranked mesmer is right now. The build needs confusion/torment on shatter to output conditions. This means running illusions, and the most prevalent build, at least in NA diamond/legend, is Nero’s birdflu build, which, surprise, is about using your shatters offensively with Signet of Illusion to refresh them.

To even claim that F5 has a CD of 75s at minimum, when that is the reduced CD from running illusions, is ridiculous. I enjoy healthy debate about mesmer balance, but when the ardent defenders of the class don’t even know what’s being played right now, it makes all of the mesmer defenders look uninformed from a 3rd view point.

musu.9205:

Krysard.1364:

Vex.9437:

i love how people say that moa is blockable, dodgeable and has a ridiculously long cast and you can t see the mesmer casting that because of the visual spamfest.

Basically this. Even if moa has questionable problems by itself, the thing that really annoys me is that you can succesfully cast it with 0 set up cause of the clusterfights

so fixing the spamfest

by your logic other powerful skills are much harder to see since many have less than 1 s casting time like engi gyro , ranger S&R necro chill lol and passive procs
so why picking up moa srsly ?

Reread my post

What polymorph needed is a unique variety of animation tell thru gemstore that outshine every effects in team setting. point blank polymorph, so epic.

Blackjack.5621:

suffish.4150:

because it is an elite skill with a long cool down.

It´s a 50sec cd on your f5 with alacrity

Ithilwen.1529:

Moa is blockable, dodgeable and has a ridiculously long cast that can be interrupted. This is a learn to play issue.

Not all classes have blocks or stunbreaks. It is not dodgeable from sword3/shield 5 cc combo.

Then you will have to drop one shout or teleport in order to get one if you’re having problems with it. Or get shout that stunbreaks.

I generally agree that Moa could’ve been more visible, though.

musu.9205:

Curunen.8729:

I’d say:

1. Halve the duration of moa to ~5s on a 90s cooldown in pvp and,
2. Swap Time Warp with Portal, making Time Warp a regular utility Glamour and put Portal back on a 90s cooldown as an elite skill and reduce the duration of Time warp to ~7s with a 90s cooldown.
3. Make F5 not work with elites.

1.if you guys hate moa so much , rework is much betetr than nerfing it to 5s on 90s cd ,lets say after that it will be a trash skill since it is only used to kill tank build in team fight .5s moa with skill5 evade its 4s for a kill . worse than engi toolbelt skill which is 120s but aoe 3s moa duration which only has 1/2 s cast time ,also much harder to see the animation on engi than mes .

2.you know the concept : if something isnt broken , dont fix it .

3.if f5 doesnt work with elite ,mes elites need a massive cd reduce .current cd especially timewrap was this freaking long partly due to chrono (also glamour CDR trait doesnt reduce timewrap cd )

speak about this, i like how anet always refused to split skills but only made special sets of rule towards mesmer lol

in this thread you can say by making mes skills with special rules

,anet did prove that this way noobs do get confused in this very thread lol

Oh you miss my point – by the way I’m a die hard mesmer (check post history). So I’m not suggesting those changes from an external viewpoint. Actually I have no personal feelings about moa – I pretty much never use it (not being on an organised team) and don’t really care if an enemy uses it.

My point is those changes I suggested will force other areas of mesmer in desperate need of fixing/buffing to be fixed. For example mirror blade bounce, staff auto, phantasm skills, etc (way too much to list).

As long as Portal and Moa remain as they are where they are, their very existence carries the role of any mesmer (other than that short time of chronobunker) in pvp and hides any other problems with the class.

Edit: also I know that TW isn’t on the usual glamour cooldown reduction – maybe my wording wasn’t clear, I believe swapping it with Portal would be a beneficial impact for the class and allow other changes to take place.

I agree, moa is OP, the duration is just way too long. People who say you can just block it or that it’s a l2p issue are either incredibly ignorant or just plain naive. In a team fight it’s practically impossible to see the mesmer dropping a moabomb on you + with alacrity they can practically cast it twice in a row, I mean cmon…

the condishatter chronobuild in spvp is overall very strong, especially in 1v1 or smaller skirmishes so reducing the moa duration would be very justified.

Coming from an ele, that’s interesting. The fact of the matter is that an ele will out heal all the condi I can throw at them and laugh. Moa is the one skill I have that’s effective against a tempest and even then, I will almost never be able to down them within the duration of moa.

The situation is similar against a scrapper or reaper. This really is a learn to play issue. It’s a full second cast time.

That’s an eternity in pvp. During that time you block, set up a dodge or hit me to interrupt. The fact that you died to a moa is not cause to call it OP nor to nerf it.

You just didnt read my comment thoroughly did you? In a team fight it’s impossible to see a mesmer cast moamorph, even if it is a second cast time. Besides, do you actually think it would be normal for a condi class to beat a full support tempest?? The fact that moa can completely neutralize an ele or any other class is just completely ridiculous. It just blows my mind how people just can’t see that, guess you’re afraid that you won’t be able to faceroll your keyboard anymore should Anet nerf it slightly…

btw I hardly ever play ele anymore, just too lazy to change my signature

I just can’t believe that people actually defend it…

If you cut my Moa in half, i want double clones & illusions up to six & fully immune to all AoE’s to compensate all the nerf we got.