Guild Wars 2

No further proof is needed beyond this.

Further explanation into this math. I only spent a total of 10.75 seconds to cast all of the things listed as you can see(the full potential of getting the 3700ish dps is realized about 13-14 seconds into the fight since all of your bleed stacks are now ticking). So basically multiply by 1.75 the end result of total damage to get the real total damage result. Vastly superior to plague form

You will notice it says not using plague form 25/180 blindness vs plague form 20/180 blindness.

Plague form blindness pulses for 20 seconds at a rate of 1 pulse per second causing 1 second of blindness and cooldown is 180 seconds.
Total cooldown over 180 seconds of time on Dagger offhand slot 4(deathly swarm) + well of darkness cooldown shows you can easily get 25 seconds of blindness on an enemy(or rather 25 pulses each lasting for 3 seconds which just counts for next attack) out of 180 seconds. Making it the clear winner. So Do not use plague form right away if you are trying to hold a point, use the above and all skill rotations instead, then if you really need to use plague form to survive(which is only for a ton of people hitting you, or you are bad(most necros are bad)) then use it.

Therefore plague form loses in EVERY category as regards to using for blindness, poison, bleeding, DPS, boons, and conditions.

Therefore it is almost NEVER to be used for anything other than holding a point in a 1 vs 1 because u dont know how to use your other abilities WHICH are actually better and deal 15 times as much damage.

Bad necro’s commence to lecture me!(I see a lot have, and others who have no idea how to play a necro have also, very funny)

So, a 40k hp bonus while perma blinding and crippling a team is bad. Got it.

Wow, egotistic much? “Bad necro’s commence to lecture me!” You had a good post up until that point, seeing as you stated your opinion and backed it up with hard numbers.

However, I use plague form for a few reason. Firstly, doubling the already high health pool of the necromancer is a nice buffer when I get caught on a point against 2 or more players. This health, combined with the blind spam that you can get from plague form makes it a valuable tool when you need to hold out until support arrives.

In regards to your numbers, I don’t think any necromancer has ever claimed that plague form is better in regards to damage than not being in plague form… Secondly, when you take into account the amount of blinds you counted, deathly swarm applies to the next attack, so the duration of the blind is not as applicable as how often that blind can be APPLIED, because most classes attack more than once every 3 seconds. Next you have well of darkness, which I believe lasts 5 seconds and ticks once a second, applying a total of 5 blinds in 5 seconds. This is actually an efficient blinding tool, but at most, you’re getting a combined 6 blinds out of these two skills. Where you run into issues is that most classes attack at least once every second, meaning you’ll get at most 6 seconds of blind. Then taking into account that plague form is used as more of a defensive rather than offensive tool, and that you get around 20 blinds in 20 seconds when you need it, plus a doubled health pool, you can reach the conclusion that plague form is not, in fact, useless, but serves a respectable purpose in tpvp.

Oh, and this would be better served in the necromancer sub-forum by the way…

thejoshknight.4697:

Wow, egotistic much? “Bad necro’s commence to lecture me!” You had a good post up until that point, seeing as you stated your opinion and backed it up with hard numbers.

However, I use plague form for a few reason. Firstly, doubling the already high health pool of the necromancer is a nice buffer when I get caught on a point against 2 or more players. This health, combined with the blind spam that you can get from plague form makes it a valuable tool when you need to hold out until support arrives.

In regards to your numbers, I don’t think any necromancer has ever claimed that plague form is better in regards to damage than not being in plague form… Secondly, when you take into account the amount of blinds you counted, deathly swarm applies to the next attack, so the duration of the blind is not as applicable as how often that blind can be APPLIED, because most classes attack more than once every 3 seconds. Next you have well of darkness, which I believe lasts 5 seconds and ticks once a second, applying a total of 5 blinds in 5 seconds. This is actually an efficient blinding tool, but at most, you’re getting a combined 6 blinds out of these two skills. Where you run into issues is that most classes attack at least once every second, meaning you’ll get at most 6 seconds of blind. Then taking into account that plague form is used as more of a defensive rather than offensive tool, and that you get around 20 blinds in 20 seconds when you need it, plus a doubled health pool, you can reach the conclusion that plague form is not, in fact, useless, but serves a respectable purpose in tpvp.

thejoshknight.4697:

Wow, egotistic much? “Bad necro’s commence to lecture me!” You had a good post up until that point, seeing as you stated your opinion and backed it up with hard numbers.

However, I use plague form for a few reason. Firstly, doubling the already high health pool of the necromancer is a nice buffer when I get caught on a point against 2 or more players. This health, combined with the blind spam that you can get from plague form makes it a valuable tool when you need to hold out until support arrives.

In regards to your numbers, I don’t think any necromancer has ever claimed that plague form is better in regards to damage than not being in plague form… Secondly, when you take into account the amount of blinds you counted, deathly swarm applies to the next attack, so the duration of the blind is not as applicable as how often that blind can be APPLIED, because most classes attack more than once every 3 seconds. Next you have well of darkness, which I believe lasts 5 seconds and ticks once a second, applying a total of 5 blinds in 5 seconds. This is actually an efficient blinding tool, but at most, you’re getting a combined 6 blinds out of these two skills. Where you run into issues is that most classes attack at least once every second, meaning you’ll get at most 6 seconds of blind. Then taking into account that plague form is used as more of a defensive rather than offensive tool, and that you get around 20 blinds in 20 seconds when you need it, plus a doubled health pool, you can reach the conclusion that plague form is not, in fact, useless, but serves a respectable purpose in tpvp.

Deathly Swarm and Well of Darkness blind better over a 180 second period than plague form does. I showed the math. I said over 180 seconds which is the cooldown on the plague form. in the 20 seconds u were wasting time in plague form dealing 231 DPS with poison = 4,620 total damage. you could have done 37,000 without using plague form.

its up to you. blow an elite cooldown and wait for ur 20 seconds of blindness to be reuseable every 180 seconds. or have well of darkness + deathly swarm blind for 25 seconds out of every 180 seconds while dealing 37,000 damage.

makes no sense.

Panther Chameleon.8465:

So, a 40k hp bonus while perma blinding and crippling a team is bad. Got it.

You can already perma chill and cripple with grasping hands, chill blains, and switching weapons. plague form = 20 pulses of blindness every 180 seconds.

deathly swarm + well of darkness = 25 pulses of blindness every 180 seconds.
having 40k hp doesnt matter because u cant heal while you are in it, you cant remove conditions from urself, you cant get your regen, cant use deathshroud to absorb hits when you need to or gain life force. you are bad if you think plague form is better.

40k hp is legit the only benefit for using it. the blindness it provides isnt as good over a 180 second period as deathly swarm + well of darkness. not to mention you cant fear aoe enemies away, or single target fear. the Plague form DPS = 231, not using plague form DPS = 3788.

GOT IT??

Jason Segel.2908:

thejoshknight.4697:

Wow, egotistic much? “Bad necro’s commence to lecture me!” You had a good post up until that point, seeing as you stated your opinion and backed it up with hard numbers.

However, I use plague form for a few reason. Firstly, doubling the already high health pool of the necromancer is a nice buffer when I get caught on a point against 2 or more players. This health, combined with the blind spam that you can get from plague form makes it a valuable tool when you need to hold out until support arrives.

In regards to your numbers, I don’t think any necromancer has ever claimed that plague form is better in regards to damage than not being in plague form… Secondly, when you take into account the amount of blinds you counted, deathly swarm applies to the next attack, so the duration of the blind is not as applicable as how often that blind can be APPLIED, because most classes attack more than once every 3 seconds. Next you have well of darkness, which I believe lasts 5 seconds and ticks once a second, applying a total of 5 blinds in 5 seconds. This is actually an efficient blinding tool, but at most, you’re getting a combined 6 blinds out of these two skills. Where you run into issues is that most classes attack at least once every second, meaning you’ll get at most 6 seconds of blind. Then taking into account that plague form is used as more of a defensive rather than offensive tool, and that you get around 20 blinds in 20 seconds when you need it, plus a doubled health pool, you can reach the conclusion that plague form is not, in fact, useless, but serves a respectable purpose in tpvp.

thejoshknight.4697:

Wow, egotistic much? “Bad necro’s commence to lecture me!” You had a good post up until that point, seeing as you stated your opinion and backed it up with hard numbers.

However, I use plague form for a few reason. Firstly, doubling the already high health pool of the necromancer is a nice buffer when I get caught on a point against 2 or more players. This health, combined with the blind spam that you can get from plague form makes it a valuable tool when you need to hold out until support arrives.

In regards to your numbers, I don’t think any necromancer has ever claimed that plague form is better in regards to damage than not being in plague form… Secondly, when you take into account the amount of blinds you counted, deathly swarm applies to the next attack, so the duration of the blind is not as applicable as how often that blind can be APPLIED, because most classes attack more than once every 3 seconds. Next you have well of darkness, which I believe lasts 5 seconds and ticks once a second, applying a total of 5 blinds in 5 seconds. This is actually an efficient blinding tool, but at most, you’re getting a combined 6 blinds out of these two skills. Where you run into issues is that most classes attack at least once every second, meaning you’ll get at most 6 seconds of blind. Then taking into account that plague form is used as more of a defensive rather than offensive tool, and that you get around 20 blinds in 20 seconds when you need it, plus a doubled health pool, you can reach the conclusion that plague form is not, in fact, useless, but serves a respectable purpose in tpvp.

Deathly Swarm and Well of Darkness blind better over a 180 second period than plague form does. I showed the math. I said over 180 seconds which is the cooldown on the plague form. in the 20 seconds u were wasting time in plague form dealing 231 DPS with poison = 4,620 total damage. you could have done 37,000 without using plague form.

its up to you. blow an elite cooldown and wait for ur 20 seconds of blindness to be reuseable every 180 seconds. or have well of darkness + deathly swarm blind for 25 seconds out of every 180 seconds while dealing 37,000 damage.

makes no sense.

You disregard my entire point, I never refuted your point that over a period of time it wasn’t better to use well of darkness and deathly swarm (btw, not everyone uses well of darkness, I prefer a corruption build…), I stated that plague form serves it function well as a emergency button when needed, which it does. A doubled health pool and 20 seconds of reduction is a very nice elite in my opinion, but to each their own.

Jason Segel.2908:

Deathly Swarm and Well of Darkness blind better over a 180 second period than plague form does. I showed the math. I said over 180 seconds which is the cooldown on the plague form. in the 20 seconds u were wasting time in plague form dealing 231 DPS with poison = 4,620 total damage. you could have done 37,000 without using plague form.

its up to you. blow an elite cooldown and wait for ur 20 seconds of blindness to be reuseable every 180 seconds. or have well of darkness + deathly swarm blind for 25 seconds out of every 180 seconds while dealing 37,000 damage.

makes no sense.

I’m not a necro, but you keep comparing 20 seconds of plague form to 180 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm. What you should be comparing is 20 seconds of plague form + 160 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm to 180 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm (less any time using whichever elite you took in place of plague form).

Just because you took Plague doesn’t suddenly make those skills stop working when Plague’s on cooldown.

Syeria.4812:

Jason Segel.2908:

Deathly Swarm and Well of Darkness blind better over a 180 second period than plague form does. I showed the math. I said over 180 seconds which is the cooldown on the plague form. in the 20 seconds u were wasting time in plague form dealing 231 DPS with poison = 4,620 total damage. you could have done 37,000 without using plague form.

its up to you. blow an elite cooldown and wait for ur 20 seconds of blindness to be reuseable every 180 seconds. or have well of darkness + deathly swarm blind for 25 seconds out of every 180 seconds while dealing 37,000 damage.

makes no sense.

I’m not a necro, but you keep comparing 20 seconds of plague form to 180 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm. What you should be comparing is 20 seconds of plague form + 160 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm to 180 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm (less any time using whichever elite you took in place of plague form).

Just because you took Plague doesn’t suddenly make those skills stop working when Plague’s on cooldown.

the whole point is that you can acheive the same outcome of surviving with blinds over a 180 second period(and not have to wait on a 3 minute cooldown next time u need blinds) and deal over 37,000 damage over a 20 second period. Compared to plague forms 20 seconds of blind and only dealing around 4,700 damage.

u shouldnt be fighting more than 1 or 2 people anyways and should be working as a team, thus u want the 37,000 damage output over> plague form 4700 damage over same time period.

u cant always use plague form, u can almost always use deathly swarm and well of darkness usually comes back a few times during a heated team battle(while also giving your team 3 seconds of protection each time u cast)

thejoshknight.4697:

Jason Segel.2908:

thejoshknight.4697:

Wow, egotistic much? “Bad necro’s commence to lecture me!” You had a good post up until that point, seeing as you stated your opinion and backed it up with hard numbers.

However, I use plague form for a few reason. Firstly, doubling the already high health pool of the necromancer is a nice buffer when I get caught on a point against 2 or more players. This health, combined with the blind spam that you can get from plague form makes it a valuable tool when you need to hold out until support arrives.

In regards to your numbers, I don’t think any necromancer has ever claimed that plague form is better in regards to damage than not being in plague form… Secondly, when you take into account the amount of blinds you counted, deathly swarm applies to the next attack, so the duration of the blind is not as applicable as how often that blind can be APPLIED, because most classes attack more than once every 3 seconds. Next you have well of darkness, which I believe lasts 5 seconds and ticks once a second, applying a total of 5 blinds in 5 seconds. This is actually an efficient blinding tool, but at most, you’re getting a combined 6 blinds out of these two skills. Where you run into issues is that most classes attack at least once every second, meaning you’ll get at most 6 seconds of blind. Then taking into account that plague form is used as more of a defensive rather than offensive tool, and that you get around 20 blinds in 20 seconds when you need it, plus a doubled health pool, you can reach the conclusion that plague form is not, in fact, useless, but serves a respectable purpose in tpvp.

thejoshknight.4697:

Wow, egotistic much? “Bad necro’s commence to lecture me!” You had a good post up until that point, seeing as you stated your opinion and backed it up with hard numbers.

However, I use plague form for a few reason. Firstly, doubling the already high health pool of the necromancer is a nice buffer when I get caught on a point against 2 or more players. This health, combined with the blind spam that you can get from plague form makes it a valuable tool when you need to hold out until support arrives.

In regards to your numbers, I don’t think any necromancer has ever claimed that plague form is better in regards to damage than not being in plague form… Secondly, when you take into account the amount of blinds you counted, deathly swarm applies to the next attack, so the duration of the blind is not as applicable as how often that blind can be APPLIED, because most classes attack more than once every 3 seconds. Next you have well of darkness, which I believe lasts 5 seconds and ticks once a second, applying a total of 5 blinds in 5 seconds. This is actually an efficient blinding tool, but at most, you’re getting a combined 6 blinds out of these two skills. Where you run into issues is that most classes attack at least once every second, meaning you’ll get at most 6 seconds of blind. Then taking into account that plague form is used as more of a defensive rather than offensive tool, and that you get around 20 blinds in 20 seconds when you need it, plus a doubled health pool, you can reach the conclusion that plague form is not, in fact, useless, but serves a respectable purpose in tpvp.

Deathly Swarm and Well of Darkness blind better over a 180 second period than plague form does. I showed the math. I said over 180 seconds which is the cooldown on the plague form. in the 20 seconds u were wasting time in plague form dealing 231 DPS with poison = 4,620 total damage. you could have done 37,000 without using plague form.

its up to you. blow an elite cooldown and wait for ur 20 seconds of blindness to be reuseable every 180 seconds. or have well of darkness + deathly swarm blind for 25 seconds out of every 180 seconds while dealing 37,000 damage.

makes no sense.

You disregard my entire point, I never refuted your point that over a period of time it wasn’t better to use well of darkness and deathly swarm (btw, not everyone uses well of darkness, I prefer a corruption build…), I stated that plague form serves it function well as a emergency button when needed, which it does. A doubled health pool and 20 seconds of reduction is a very nice elite in my opinion, but to each their own.

You are taking a huge 3 minute cooldown to deal 4700 damage and survive. i am dealing 37000+ damage and most of it is aoe direct damage + condi damage over a 20 second period. yes u only can get 6 pulses of blindness right away. but the whole point is to utilize the 6 pulses to deal all of your best moves while they are blinded. thus causing you to still be at full health while you already dealt them over 9k damage.

It is quite strong in holding a node neutral as as zerg chain of bunker characters stream back in as PZ likes to do, while they tirelessly research new exploits.

Jason Segel.2908:

Syeria.4812:

Jason Segel.2908:

Deathly Swarm and Well of Darkness blind better over a 180 second period than plague form does. I showed the math. I said over 180 seconds which is the cooldown on the plague form. in the 20 seconds u were wasting time in plague form dealing 231 DPS with poison = 4,620 total damage. you could have done 37,000 without using plague form.

its up to you. blow an elite cooldown and wait for ur 20 seconds of blindness to be reuseable every 180 seconds. or have well of darkness + deathly swarm blind for 25 seconds out of every 180 seconds while dealing 37,000 damage.

makes no sense.

I’m not a necro, but you keep comparing 20 seconds of plague form to 180 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm. What you should be comparing is 20 seconds of plague form + 160 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm to 180 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm (less any time using whichever elite you took in place of plague form).

Just because you took Plague doesn’t suddenly make those skills stop working when Plague’s on cooldown.

the whole point is that you can acheive the same outcome of surviving with blinds over a 180 second period(and not have to wait on a 3 minute cooldown next time u need blinds) and deal over 37,000 damage over a 20 second period. Compared to plague forms 20 seconds of blind and only dealing around 4,700 damage.

u shouldnt be fighting more than 1 or 2 people anyways and should be working as a team, thus u want the 37,000 damage output over> plague form 4700 damage over same time period.

u cant always use plague form, u can almost always use deathly swarm and well of darkness usually comes back a few times during a heated team battle(while also giving your team 3 seconds of protection each time u cast)

But you’re not making a reasonable comparison on what’s gained/lost by taking plague on your skillbar except for the 1135 damage you list from golem. Furthermore, looking at your table closer, it’s incredibly inaccurate because you ignore cooldowns, aftercast delay, and any possible moments where attacks are not being made. You’re not losing out on this 37k damage you claim because that would only be the case if you completely ignored cooldowns and the other things mentioned. Just envelope mathing your sheet and approximate cooldowns, you’re really looking at something around 25k damage over that 20 seconds of Plague form, which is only a difference of 20k damage (calculated pre-armor reduction for armor affected damage).

Jason Segel.2908:

use your other abilities which are actually better and deal 15 times as much damage.

Wow, that makes so much sense… until you remember about the whole CD deal, and how plague form gives you a bunch of life and you can move around while in it…

Panther Chameleon.8465:

So, a 40k hp bonus while perma blinding and crippling a team is bad. Got it.

yeeup, aoe moving pulsing blind…

Jason Segel.2908:

Panther Chameleon.8465:

So, a 40k hp bonus while perma blinding and crippling a team is bad. Got it.

You can already perma chill and cripple with grasping hands, chill blains, and switching weapons. plague form = 20 pulses of blindness every 180 seconds.

deathly swarm + well of darkness = 25 pulses of blindness every 180 seconds.
having 40k hp doesnt matter because u cant heal while you are in it

hahahah…
You are portraying yourself as probably the worst person ever to look into balance.
If all you see are raw blinds/180s against target golems, oh and “gaining 15~k life but can’t click your heal skill” as a net loss…
Just stop before you people start yelling at you.

I’m not saying its a great skill, I honestly am not sure if it is a lil OP or UP… just your way of portraying numbers… is very… political, I’ll leave it at that.

Jason Segel.2908:

You are taking a huge 3 minute cooldown to deal 4700 damage and survive. i am dealing 37000+ damage and most of it is aoe direct damage + condi damage over a 20 second period. yes u only can get 6 pulses of blindness right away. but the whole point is to utilize the 6 pulses to deal all of your best moves while they are blinded. thus causing you to still be at full health while you already dealt them over 9k damage.

Why not both?
I’m not surprised, strictly offensively in certain situations, that multiple? utilities and a few high dmg attacks are better than an elite.
Go talk to any warrior.

You’re comparing to using a bunch of skills to just one plague, no kitten you grabbed skewed results. What are you doing after plague finishes, standing there and scratching your nuts?

What if my Necro has Well of Darkness, off-hand dagger AND plague? I’d have way higher uptime on blinds than you. When your 20s rotation is done, I’d still have most of my cool downs up while yours are all burned if I pop plague first in this vacuum time line you created.

You also can’t really put into numbers how valuable stability is. Yes you can’t cancel it to res/stomp people but having it on Plague which is a great defensive CD means you just in general a bigger annoyance that is harder to stop in team fights.

Plague also is a perma poison in that AoE for 20s, so not only are they greatly reduced in damage output when you act as divine wrath for the old testament, you’re also reducing their heals.

Lumines.3916:

You’re comparing to using a bunch of skills to just one plague, no kitten you grabbed skewed results. What are you doing after plague finishes, standing there and scratching your nuts?

What if my Necro has Well of Darkness, off-hand dagger AND plague? I’d have way higher uptime on blinds than you. When your 20s rotation is done, I’d still have most of my cool downs up while yours are all burned if I pop plague first in this vacuum time line you created.

You also can’t really put into numbers how valuable stability is. Yes you can’t cancel it to res/stomp people but having it on Plague which is a great defensive CD means you just in general a bigger annoyance that is harder to stop in team fights.

Plague also is a perma poison in that AoE for 20s, so not only are they greatly reduced in damage output when you act as divine wrath for the old testament, you’re also reducing their heals.

The poison dps is 231. Not being in plague form and using all of thise aiblities over a 10.75 second period deals roughly 3k-3.7k DPS. not sure where you are having an issue. stability + 231 DPS > 3.7k DPS in what world?

You rely on a 3 minute cooldown that will 88% of the time not be available. Where as I rely on a proper rotation, keeping enemies at bay is really easy when you keep crippling/chilling them. Your dagger off hand blindness easily comes back in 18 seconds, and you can get off a well of darkness 2 times before you beat someone in a fight, although most people don’t trait for condi removal so I have a real easy time destroying them with 15+ bleeds.

garethh.3518:

Jason Segel.2908:

Panther Chameleon.8465:

So, a 40k hp bonus while perma blinding and crippling a team is bad. Got it.

You can already perma chill and cripple with grasping hands, chill blains, and switching weapons. plague form = 20 pulses of blindness every 180 seconds.

deathly swarm + well of darkness = 25 pulses of blindness every 180 seconds.
having 40k hp doesnt matter because u cant heal while you are in it

hahahah…
You are portraying yourself as probably the worst person ever to look into balance.
If all you see are raw blinds/180s against target golems, oh and “gaining 15~k life but can’t click your heal skill” as a net loss…
Just stop before you people start yelling at you.

I’m not saying its a great skill, I honestly am not sure if it is a lil OP or UP… just your way of portraying numbers… is very… political, I’ll leave it at that.

Jason Segel.2908:

You are taking a huge 3 minute cooldown to deal 4700 damage and survive. i am dealing 37000+ damage and most of it is aoe direct damage + condi damage over a 20 second period. yes u only can get 6 pulses of blindness right away. but the whole point is to utilize the 6 pulses to deal all of your best moves while they are blinded. thus causing you to still be at full health while you already dealt them over 9k damage.

Why not both?
I’m not surprised, strictly offensively in certain situations, that multiple? utilities and a few high dmg attacks are better than an elite.
Go talk to any warrior.

You can use plague also. Personally I prefer to have golem because Lich is not viable for a max condi build because of my low power. So I won’t use plague because I can survive better and dealmore damage without it, at least the way my spec is, your spec might need it.

garethh.3518:

Jason Segel.2908:

use your other abilities which are actually better and deal 15 times as much damage.

Wow, that makes so much sense… until you remember about the whole CD deal, and how plague form gives you a bunch of life and you can move around while in it…

Panther Chameleon.8465:

So, a 40k hp bonus while perma blinding and crippling a team is bad. Got it.

yeeup, aoe moving pulsing blind…

You get life and go from being able to deal 3.7k ish damage when enemies have full conditions on them, to dealing 231 DPS. So while you are sitting there letting an enemy have his way with you(most enemy attacks are faster than one second so you are infact getting hit and guess what? you cant heal or remove conditions cuz ur in plague form) So enjoy taking more damage. Most people don’t stand in the plague blinds and simple far range you.

Wow nice findings, but you’r five months behind.

It’s hard to believe that you are pretentious enough to ask the ‘’bad necros’’ to lecture you when every true good necro found that months ago and we found it so obvious we never wanted to take the time to prove it with numbers.

Zzod.5791:

It is quite strong in holding a node neutral as as zerg chain of bunker characters stream back in as PZ likes to do, while they tirelessly research new exploits.

It can be yes. But why are just you holding the node? I play with a few good bunkers who usually only die when its a 4 on 1 or a really long 3 vs 1. So I am a little worried you don’t know what it’s like to have a good bunker on your team and you don’t have to worry about being the tank or holding the point.

Syeria.4812:

Jason Segel.2908:

Syeria.4812:

Jason Segel.2908:

Deathly Swarm and Well of Darkness blind better over a 180 second period than plague form does. I showed the math. I said over 180 seconds which is the cooldown on the plague form. in the 20 seconds u were wasting time in plague form dealing 231 DPS with poison = 4,620 total damage. you could have done 37,000 without using plague form.

its up to you. blow an elite cooldown and wait for ur 20 seconds of blindness to be reuseable every 180 seconds. or have well of darkness + deathly swarm blind for 25 seconds out of every 180 seconds while dealing 37,000 damage.

makes no sense.

I’m not a necro, but you keep comparing 20 seconds of plague form to 180 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm. What you should be comparing is 20 seconds of plague form + 160 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm to 180 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm (less any time using whichever elite you took in place of plague form).

Just because you took Plague doesn’t suddenly make those skills stop working when Plague’s on cooldown.

the whole point is that you can acheive the same outcome of surviving with blinds over a 180 second period(and not have to wait on a 3 minute cooldown next time u need blinds) and deal over 37,000 damage over a 20 second period. Compared to plague forms 20 seconds of blind and only dealing around 4,700 damage.

u shouldnt be fighting more than 1 or 2 people anyways and should be working as a team, thus u want the 37,000 damage output over> plague form 4700 damage over same time period.

u cant always use plague form, u can almost always use deathly swarm and well of darkness usually comes back a few times during a heated team battle(while also giving your team 3 seconds of protection each time u cast)

But you’re not making a reasonable comparison on what’s gained/lost by taking plague on your skillbar except for the 1135 damage you list from golem. Furthermore, looking at your table closer, it’s incredibly inaccurate because you ignore cooldowns, aftercast delay, and any possible moments where attacks are not being made. You’re not losing out on this 37k damage you claim because that would only be the case if you completely ignored cooldowns and the other things mentioned. Just envelope mathing your sheet and approximate cooldowns, you’re really looking at something around 25k damage over that 20 seconds of Plague form, which is only a difference of 20k damage (calculated pre-armor reduction for armor affected damage).

Actually isn’t that far off. I said double what my table said(as my table used only a 10.75 benchmark), that part was inaccurate. My table assumes only one of each ability was cast if you look closely, the benchmark is 10.75 seconds(time taken to cast each of the abilities listed one time).

You are right in saying the 37,000 damage won’t literally happen until about 12 to 13 seconds in because you need time to build up your bleeds. But this 25k-20k thing you said is completely off.

So I admit my number was off because you need to let the bleeds tick but at that 12 to 13 second, point the bleeds on them are steady and will deal 3700 ish DPS as long as you keep the bleeds and direct damage up + poison and golem hitting(assuming golem is still alive, if not easy 2000-2600 dps remains) Compared to 231 poison ticks from plague every second still = 231 DPS.

In the long run you are relying on a 3 minute cooldown. I don’t like doing that because you might need it sooner and you won’t have it. Thus why I use Well of Darkness(48 second cooldown) and Deathly Swarm(18second cooldown).

You are completely forgeting I will be giving myself protection, cripping them, chilling them, 2 fears, golem knockdown, and permanent 50% fumble(all non-critical hits are reduced by 50% damage) You can’t just use a simple I am in plague form and therefore it must be amazing comparison. You need to take into account all of the factors and you simply are not and refuse to. Make your own excel sheet and prove yourself wrong then and upload the picture

Jason Segel.2908:

Zzod.5791:

It is quite strong in holding a node neutral as as zerg chain of bunker characters stream back in as PZ likes to do, while they tirelessly research new exploits.

It can be yes. But why are just you holding the node? I play with a few good bunkers who usually only die when its a 4 on 1 or a really long 3 vs 1. So I am a little worried you don’t know what it’s like to have a good bunker on your team and you don’t have to worry about being the tank or holding the point.

Actually, I play bunker for my team, so I know what I am talking about. Are you really a little worried?

What do you even mean “just holding the node”? You make that sound as if its a failure when you are faced with a 2 on 1 situation? As opposed to what? Prolonging your team’s control of a node or maintaining a neutral are a success in itself.

Plague form, with its stability and ability to significantly inhibit close proximity damage, is VERY effective in buying time until teammates can arrive by delaying loss of a node or keeping it neutral. It is very strong at clocktower, waterfall, keep, etc. A necro has the unique ability on a team to have the emergency “bunker” relief via plague form that other damage classes simply do not have access to.

The bunkers you are referring to are an extinct race of bunkers who were able to withstand damage by using mace block bugs, exploiting svanir runes, and having maximized protection uptime. These are no longer a reality. So, let’s be realistic?

Zzod.5791:

Jason Segel.2908:

Zzod.5791:

It is quite strong in holding a node neutral as as zerg chain of bunker characters stream back in as PZ likes to do, while they tirelessly research new exploits.

It can be yes. But why are just you holding the node? I play with a few good bunkers who usually only die when its a 4 on 1 or a really long 3 vs 1. So I am a little worried you don’t know what it’s like to have a good bunker on your team and you don’t have to worry about being the tank or holding the point.

Actually, I play bunker for my team, so I know what I am talking about. Are you really a little worried?

What do you even mean “just holding the node”? You make that sound as if its a failure when you are faced with a 2 on 1 situation? As opposed to what? Prolonging your team’s control of a node or maintaining a neutral are a success in itself.

Plague form, with its stability and ability to significantly inhibit close proximity damage, is VERY effective in buying time until teammates can arrive by delaying loss of a node or keeping it neutral. It is very strong at clocktower, waterfall, keep, etc. A necro has the unique ability on a team to have the emergency “bunker” relief via plague form that other damage classes simply do not have access to.

The bunkers you are referring to are an extinct race of bunkers who were able to withstand damage by using mace block bugs, exploiting svanir runes, and having maximized protection uptime. These are no longer a reality. So, let’s be realistic?

I think he’s talking about spvp which has no standing in tpvp.

Jason Segel.2908:

Syeria.4812:

Jason Segel.2908:

Syeria.4812:

Jason Segel.2908:

Deathly Swarm and Well of Darkness blind better over a 180 second period than plague form does. I showed the math. I said over 180 seconds which is the cooldown on the plague form. in the 20 seconds u were wasting time in plague form dealing 231 DPS with poison = 4,620 total damage. you could have done 37,000 without using plague form.

its up to you. blow an elite cooldown and wait for ur 20 seconds of blindness to be reuseable every 180 seconds. or have well of darkness + deathly swarm blind for 25 seconds out of every 180 seconds while dealing 37,000 damage.

makes no sense.

I’m not a necro, but you keep comparing 20 seconds of plague form to 180 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm. What you should be comparing is 20 seconds of plague form + 160 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm to 180 seconds of well of darkness and deathly swarm (less any time using whichever elite you took in place of plague form).

Just because you took Plague doesn’t suddenly make those skills stop working when Plague’s on cooldown.

the whole point is that you can acheive the same outcome of surviving with blinds over a 180 second period(and not have to wait on a 3 minute cooldown next time u need blinds) and deal over 37,000 damage over a 20 second period. Compared to plague forms 20 seconds of blind and only dealing around 4,700 damage.

u shouldnt be fighting more than 1 or 2 people anyways and should be working as a team, thus u want the 37,000 damage output over> plague form 4700 damage over same time period.

u cant always use plague form, u can almost always use deathly swarm and well of darkness usually comes back a few times during a heated team battle(while also giving your team 3 seconds of protection each time u cast)

But you’re not making a reasonable comparison on what’s gained/lost by taking plague on your skillbar except for the 1135 damage you list from golem. Furthermore, looking at your table closer, it’s incredibly inaccurate because you ignore cooldowns, aftercast delay, and any possible moments where attacks are not being made. You’re not losing out on this 37k damage you claim because that would only be the case if you completely ignored cooldowns and the other things mentioned. Just envelope mathing your sheet and approximate cooldowns, you’re really looking at something around 25k damage over that 20 seconds of Plague form, which is only a difference of 20k damage (calculated pre-armor reduction for armor affected damage).

Actually isn’t that far off. I said double what my table said(as my table used only a 10.75 benchmark), that part was inaccurate. My table assumes only one of each ability was cast if you look closely, the benchmark is 10.75 seconds(time taken to cast each of the abilities listed one time).

You are right in saying the 37,000 damage won’t literally happen until about 12 to 13 seconds in because you need time to build up your bleeds. But this 25k-20k thing you said is completely off.

So I admit my number was off because you need to let the bleeds tick but at that 12 to 13 second, point the bleeds on them are steady and will deal 3700 ish DPS as long as you keep the bleeds and direct damage up + poison and golem hitting(assuming golem is still alive, if not easy 2000-2600 dps remains) Compared to 231 poison ticks from plague every second still = 231 DPS.

You still misunderstand. You’ve calculated the total damage dealt in 10.75 seconds, divided by 10.75 to calculate DPS, then multiplied that by your total time to calculate total damage. The issue is you can’t use those skills that quickly because of cooldowns. If you go through that entire rotation (and we’re ignoring human reaction times and aftercast delay for the moment) you’ll have done 15k damage in 10.75 seconds, but every skill will be on cooldown except mark of blood, grasping dead, and feast of corruption. Still ignoring all the real world factors that would reduce efficiency, your maximum possible rotation would be to cast Mark of Blood 3 times, Grasping Dead twice, Feast of Corruption twice, and every other skill once. That’s only approximately 25k damage, not the 37k you claim. Furthermore, every single skill will be on cooldown when you finish, so there’s an efficiency loss there as a player exiting Plague would (all things being equal) have every skill ready for use.

As I said before, I don’t play necro in sPvP. Maybe Plague is inefficient and a poor choice. I don’t know, my necro has never entered the mists. But the numbers you’re trying to use to prove that aren’t accurate and aren’t very meaningful for any purpose.

Have to have plague for res and stomps. Only reason why Necros ever have elites is for clutch moments.

My ele will cheerfully take plague form, thanks. You can have my tornado.

Good thing people don’t move or remove conditions in PvP

Panther Chameleon.8465:

So, a 40k hp bonus while perma blinding and crippling a team is bad. Got it.

My elite skill gives me might and fury for 30 seconds.

Yeah, it is that awesome!!!!!

Would I trade it for 20 seconds of tanking with blind and cripple spam?

Hell yes.

Well, lets compare what you are going to do with that Elite spot that Plague Form frees up. In Spvp its only class skills so that leaves Flesh Golem and Lich Form. Both of which only really excell in a 1v1 or 2v1 environment.

So now you have to ask yourself… Am I a Duelist or a Team Player?

The Team obviously benefits from all the surrounding targets being crippled and blinded. Evenmore so when your plague form drops AND you bust down a well. Even more blinds. Especially if you trait for Blind adding Chill than yeah, why not Plague?

Being a solo Necro benefit more from the golem’s knockdown ability and additional dmg or the Lich Form’s skill set and HP than plague form.

So… like all skills in game… its situational. BTW you forgot the Golem’s knockdown on your little excel speadsheet there. It’s a huge ability that should’nt be forgotten.

im probably a bed necro but here goes,

plagueform in its current state is prob one of the strongest bunker elite there is. i mean double the hp increased toughness and vit pretty sure it gives near immunity to crits… or maybe people crit and the toughness boost is so high you wont even notice anymore or maybe its just the blindness spam that makes you mis s anything directed at the green mist.. and a game often exceeds the 5 min mark making it probably be usuable more then once.. more often the case twice and in rare cases 3 times..

i dont know or you ever fought the green cloud yourself but i’ve played necros a lot(1000+ games) and i played against necros a lot and the green cloud.. is pretty much gg for the comming 20 seconds even with 4 people beating on it.. who cares about the dps plague form is often picked by condition mancers. in a game that is still all about bunkering. you think the other 2 elites are better nobody is stopping you to not pick one of those.

i can tell you one thing tho going lich makes you an instant target because of the growth you experience and stability sometimes dont function at all in this form so you get tossed around like a ragdoll even in form and its dps aint that hot.. unless you go full berserker or stack blood is power and multiple mights..

and flesh golem can die in aoe in mere seconds and after it uses its charge its gone for 5 sec from the fight.. and its ai is close to that of a muppet so half the time it doesnt attack anything or it attacks the completely wrong target making is near useless in critical moments.

so none of the other 2 elites does half the job plagueform does as tanking is concerned, and the only game mode we have is conquest wich is all about tanking theres a good reason necros are put on nodes.. and the moment you see one on a node you just know 99% sure the necro has plagueform.

you cant be near invulnerable and be able to do super dps as any class that will seriously break balance wich is already near the point of broken anyways but thats another story all together.

Yeah its really just a bunker elite and boring as heck

/shrug.

…………………………………………………………………………………………………….. so much fail

20 seconds of almost guaranteed node control is bad.
Also ignoring the fact you use skills (heal/fear mark) pop plague, pop DS, fear, life transfer, drop marks.
It should really be at least a 30-40 second node control depending on skills of the player.

Lmfao.
This guy Segel is among the most kitten people I’ve ever seen post.
Please people, for your own good, disregard anything posted by him.
Actually, go ahead and use his data, but please don’t follow his conclusions.

Plague form is an “Oh crap I have 3+ people chasing me and my team disappeared” button in sPVP. Pretty funny actually watching them all beat on you mindlessly for 20sec while you run to find your team.
In tPVP I could give or take it over the Golem. He is just so handicapable it is depressing.

Zzod.5791:

Jason Segel.2908:

Zzod.5791:

It is quite strong in holding a node neutral as as zerg chain of bunker characters stream back in as PZ likes to do, while they tirelessly research new exploits.

It can be yes. But why are just you holding the node? I play with a few good bunkers who usually only die when its a 4 on 1 or a really long 3 vs 1. So I am a little worried you don’t know what it’s like to have a good bunker on your team and you don’t have to worry about being the tank or holding the point.

Actually, I play bunker for my team, so I know what I am talking about. Are you really a little worried?

What do you even mean “just holding the node”? You make that sound as if its a failure when you are faced with a 2 on 1 situation? As opposed to what? Prolonging your team’s control of a node or maintaining a neutral are a success in itself.

Plague form, with its stability and ability to significantly inhibit close proximity damage, is VERY effective in buying time until teammates can arrive by delaying loss of a node or keeping it neutral. It is very strong at clocktower, waterfall, keep, etc. A necro has the unique ability on a team to have the emergency “bunker” relief via plague form that other damage classes simply do not have access to.

The bunkers you are referring to are an extinct race of bunkers who were able to withstand damage by using mace block bugs, exploiting svanir runes, and having maximized protection uptime. These are no longer a reality. So, let’s be realistic?

???
Soldier runes, and the bunker guardian in my guild can actually live against my full condition necromancer build in a 1 vs 1 for about 5 minutes. I am as high condi damage and power as you can get. Dueled him last night. Not sure what you are talking about.

delirious.3482:

Plague form is an “Oh crap I have 3+ people chasing me and my team disappeared” button in sPVP. Pretty funny actually watching them all beat on you mindlessly for 20sec while you run to find your team.
In tPVP I could give or take it over the Golem. He is just so handicapable it is depressing.

Honestly if golem attacked like all other pets do it would be so much better. But golem does fight most of the time for me.

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

Lmfao.
This guy Segel is among the most kitten people I’ve ever seen post.
Please people, for your own good, disregard anything posted by him.
Actually, go ahead and use his data, but please don’t follow his conclusions.

The data only leads to one conclusion…. Make your own excel sheet and see for yourself.

Infectious.4836:

20 seconds of almost guaranteed node control is bad.
Also ignoring the fact you use skills (heal/fear mark) pop plague, pop DS, fear, life transfer, drop marks.
It should really be at least a 30-40 second node control depending on skills of the player.

??

You should never need to hold a node for 30-40 seconds if you are a necromancer, that isn’t our thing(even though you can be a bunker necro). That’s why bunker ele/engi/guardians are for because of the multiple knockbacks to kick people off the point. Necro has 2 fears of 1 second. 1 knockback that also knocks down is 4 seconds. See why you as a necro should not be holding a point?

xiv.7136:

Panther Chameleon.8465:

So, a 40k hp bonus while perma blinding and crippling a team is bad. Got it.

My elite skill gives me might and fury for 30 seconds.

Yeah, it is that awesome!!!!!

Would I trade it for 20 seconds of tanking with blind and cripple spam?

Hell yes.

It’s one or the other, you can’t blind and cripple at the same time. The trait “when you blind targets you also chill them” does not work for some reason. And each cast takes a second in plague form, blindness lasts for 1 second. Sorry bro.

barti.7685:

im probably a bed necro but here goes,

plagueform in its current state is prob one of the strongest bunker elite there is. i mean double the hp increased toughness and vit pretty sure it gives near immunity to crits… or maybe people crit and the toughness boost is so high you wont even notice anymore or maybe its just the blindness spam that makes you mis s anything directed at the green mist.. and a game often exceeds the 5 min mark making it probably be usuable more then once.. more often the case twice and in rare cases 3 times..

i dont know or you ever fought the green cloud yourself but i’ve played necros a lot(1000+ games) and i played against necros a lot and the green cloud.. is pretty much gg for the comming 20 seconds even with 4 people beating on it.. who cares about the dps plague form is often picked by condition mancers. in a game that is still all about bunkering. you think the other 2 elites are better nobody is stopping you to not pick one of those.

i can tell you one thing tho going lich makes you an instant target because of the growth you experience and stability sometimes dont function at all in this form so you get tossed around like a ragdoll even in form and its dps aint that hot.. unless you go full berserker or stack blood is power and multiple mights..

and flesh golem can die in aoe in mere seconds and after it uses its charge its gone for 5 sec from the fight.. and its ai is close to that of a muppet so half the time it doesnt attack anything or it attacks the completely wrong target making is near useless in critical moments.

so none of the other 2 elites does half the job plagueform does as tanking is concerned, and the only game mode we have is conquest wich is all about tanking theres a good reason necros are put on nodes.. and the moment you see one on a node you just know 99% sure the necro has plagueform.

you cant be near invulnerable and be able to do super dps as any class that will seriously break balance wich is already near the point of broken anyways but thats another story all together.

I am not sure what confuses you. Plague form has an up time of 20 seconds every 180 seconds. Well of darkness + Deathly Swarm has an up time of 25 seconds every 180 seconds. You rely too much on a 3 minute cooldown with plague form and overall you get less blinding, whereas I rely on smaller cooldowns with overall more blinding, well of darkness also gives 3 seconds of protection, chills enemies, and randomly hits for 21 damage per pulse.

You need to factor in all of the other things you could be doing, you cannot just say 20 seconds of blindness is “tank”. You are not thinking of the whole picture, Necromancer has Enfeeble blood, thats THE MOST POWERFUL move if you want to tank(cant cast that while in plague form) coupled with protection and retaliation and you are blinding them? How is it better to only blind in plagueform, when you could blind, have retaliation, protection, healing, condi removal, deathshroud for absorbing hits, fears, regen etc…

When in plague form you cannot heal, cannot remove conditions, cannot deathshroud for retaliation and 50% damage reduction on all enemies AOE attack called Enfeeble Blood(you trait for this), cannot apply chill, the bleeds/poison you apply is weaker than all of the bleeds/poisons you could normally be casting, you cannot cast your 2 fears, cannot have your golem knockdown all enemies within a 1200 range with a radius of 400 in a straight line knockdown path etc…

Please think next time before you post.

I already admitted it would take about 13-14 seconds(not the 10.75 i originally put) worth of attacks to realize the full 3700DPS(because you need to have the average bleed stack of 10-12 before your dps gets that high. Golem DPS + average 10-12 stacks of bleed DPS + poison DPS + Direct damage from attacks + retaliation from using deathshroud reflects back(forgot to mention that) and throw in the random corrupt boon so they get burning applied as well sometimes.

Anyways my point still holds true, 20 seconds of plague form spamming blindness (default applies poison with any attack) = 20 * 231(poison DPS) = 4,620 damage you deal in 20 seconds, which is 231 dps obviously.

Here is what you don’t get.

I can do 6 seconds of blindness = enemies not hitting me.
2 seconds of fear = enemies not hitting me
once they are feared away far enough I cripple AND chill = them probably nothitting me with ana ttack that deals much damage for around 5-9 seconds while I kite them around.
Fear is 20 second cooldown, fear is back, 1 second fear again.

So now they are finally actually up in my face hitting me, problem is they are already at less than half health EASILY, while i still have my heal, plenty of deathshroud to use to absorb hits, so golem knockdown = 3-4 seconds of not being able to do anything(its aoe 400 radious over a linear line of 1500ish range)

So now they can actually legit fight me, but wait, I have permanent retaliation, I have 12 seconds of protection I throw up now, and they have permanent fumble on them(all non critical hits are reduced by 50% damage).

So in the end, regardless of me being off by 3 to 4 seconds to realize the full DPS potential, I am still quite correct. Thanks for noticing I was off by a few seconds.

Jason Segel.2908:

Zzod.5791:

Jason Segel.2908:

Zzod.5791:

It is quite strong in holding a node neutral as as zerg chain of bunker characters stream back in as PZ likes to do, while they tirelessly research new exploits.

It can be yes. But why are just you holding the node? I play with a few good bunkers who usually only die when its a 4 on 1 or a really long 3 vs 1. So I am a little worried you don’t know what it’s like to have a good bunker on your team and you don’t have to worry about being the tank or holding the point.

Actually, I play bunker for my team, so I know what I am talking about. Are you really a little worried?

What do you even mean “just holding the node”? You make that sound as if its a failure when you are faced with a 2 on 1 situation? As opposed to what? Prolonging your team’s control of a node or maintaining a neutral are a success in itself.

Plague form, with its stability and ability to significantly inhibit close proximity damage, is VERY effective in buying time until teammates can arrive by delaying loss of a node or keeping it neutral. It is very strong at clocktower, waterfall, keep, etc. A necro has the unique ability on a team to have the emergency “bunker” relief via plague form that other damage classes simply do not have access to.

The bunkers you are referring to are an extinct race of bunkers who were able to withstand damage by using mace block bugs, exploiting svanir runes, and having maximized protection uptime. These are no longer a reality. So, let’s be realistic?

???
Soldier runes, and the bunker guardian in my guild can actually live against my full condition necromancer build in a 1 vs 1 for about 5 minutes. I am as high condi damage and power as you can get. Dueled him last night. Not sure what you are talking about.

Not sure what I am talking about? Not sure you know who you are talking to. What team do you play for? I looked at the NA and Euro qualifier points list and your name is nowhere. So, your opinion on the “good bunkers” you play with and the other cool stuff you and your buddies are doing are worth dick to me.

You started this argument by talking about a bunker lasting in a 3 vs 1 and a 4 vs 1 and now its been downgraded to surviving against YOU in a 1 on 1 fight.

Can you stay on topic about plague form? Oh, you can’t. Because you then introduce soldier runes into this topic. Are soldier runes good? Yes. Do they work well with shout based builds? Yes. Do they have anything at all to do with your thread, which was about proving that plague form was weak? Eh..no.

I guarantee you the scenarious you are talking about are not occuring in the paid tournament scene. You are undervaluing maintaining node neutrality and capture. You are introducing side tangents into your argument, which aren’t relevant (comparing a necro bunkering temporarily via plague form vs an actual full-time defined bunker role in a guardian). And you aren’t good either because you can’t kill a guardian in 5 minutes as a condition necro. 8( Sorry bud.

Jason Segel.2908:

Infectious.4836:

20 seconds of almost guaranteed node control is bad.
Also ignoring the fact you use skills (heal/fear mark) pop plague, pop DS, fear, life transfer, drop marks.
It should really be at least a 30-40 second node control depending on skills of the player.

??

You should never need to hold a node for 30-40 seconds if you are a necromancer, that isn’t our thing(even though you can be a bunker necro). That’s why bunker ele/engi/guardians are for because of the multiple knockbacks to kick people off the point. Necro has 2 fears of 1 second. 1 knockback that also knocks down is 4 seconds. See why you as a necro should not be holding a point?

Just because he is in plague form using it for this purpose doesn’t mean he is a full time node holder. It is a secondary purpose he is fulfiling with the presence that plague form creates on a node. See why you are now all over the place with your argument?

you dont have to have plague form ready to use all yur elites. I roll around with my golem up and switch to plague form as soon as i need it. as soon as you switch to the plague the golem dies so you need good timing. In Tpvp i node hold but usually initiate with the golem out so them think im not a plague user.

Jason Segel.2908:

blahblahblah

So? Who cares if you think plague sucks? Should we all bust out our pitch forks and march over to Anet? There’s so much wrong with this game, and your crying about plauge form when you have the best pet in the game with perma cripple knock down never on cool down.

Zzod.5791:

Jason Segel.2908:

Zzod.5791:

Jason Segel.2908:

Zzod.5791:

It is quite strong in holding a node neutral as as zerg chain of bunker characters stream back in as PZ likes to do, while they tirelessly research new exploits.

It can be yes. But why are just you holding the node? I play with a few good bunkers who usually only die when its a 4 on 1 or a really long 3 vs 1. So I am a little worried you don’t know what it’s like to have a good bunker on your team and you don’t have to worry about being the tank or holding the point.

Actually, I play bunker for my team, so I know what I am talking about. Are you really a little worried?

What do you even mean “just holding the node”? You make that sound as if its a failure when you are faced with a 2 on 1 situation? As opposed to what? Prolonging your team’s control of a node or maintaining a neutral are a success in itself.

Plague form, with its stability and ability to significantly inhibit close proximity damage, is VERY effective in buying time until teammates can arrive by delaying loss of a node or keeping it neutral. It is very strong at clocktower, waterfall, keep, etc. A necro has the unique ability on a team to have the emergency “bunker” relief via plague form that other damage classes simply do not have access to.

The bunkers you are referring to are an extinct race of bunkers who were able to withstand damage by using mace block bugs, exploiting svanir runes, and having maximized protection uptime. These are no longer a reality. So, let’s be realistic?

???
Soldier runes, and the bunker guardian in my guild can actually live against my full condition necromancer build in a 1 vs 1 for about 5 minutes. I am as high condi damage and power as you can get. Dueled him last night. Not sure what you are talking about.

Not sure what I am talking about? Not sure you know who you are talking to. What team do you play for? I looked at the NA and Euro qualifier points list and your name is nowhere. So, your opinion on the “good bunkers” you play with and the other cool stuff you and your buddies are doing are worth dick to me.

You started this argument by talking about a bunker lasting in a 3 vs 1 and a 4 vs 1 and now its been downgraded to surviving against YOU in a 1 on 1 fight.

Can you stay on topic about plague form? Oh, you can’t. Because you then introduce soldier runes into this topic. Are soldier runes good? Yes. Do they work well with shout based builds? Yes. Do they have anything at all to do with your thread, which was about proving that plague form was weak? Eh..no.

I guarantee you the scenarious you are talking about are not occuring in the paid tournament scene. You are undervaluing maintaining node neutrality and capture. You are introducing side tangents into your argument, which aren’t relevant (comparing a necro bunkering temporarily via plague form vs an actual full-time defined bunker role in a guardian). And you aren’t good either because you can’t kill a guardian in 5 minutes as a condition necro. 8( Sorry bud.

Good guardians can survive against anything for a long time. You aren’t a good guardian if you can’t.

I know my rotations, I don’t play paids yet did a ton of free with an average of 70% win ratio, got a bunch of tourney tickets in the bank. Like I said, soldier runes buddy, guardians use them + shouts = so much condi removal it takes forever to kill with a straight condi build.

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Jason Segel.2908:

blahblahblah

So? Who cares if you think plague sucks? Should we all bust out our pitch forks and march over to Anet? There’s so much wrong with this game, and your crying about plauge form when you have the best pet in the game with perma cripple knock down never on cool down.

40 second cooldown on the knockdown, it only perma cripples of the AI of it decides it wants to attack or stand around

Just because I analyzed data that makes me “crying”, When I go back to work on monday for my job as a “Planning/Data Analyst” I will let my co-workers know all we do is cry when we analyze…. Smacks of the head were heard around the world about how stupid you are….

Are you really surprised that you found a supposed “flaw” in a new video game? You don’t need to be a data sniffer to figure out that GW2 was released unfinished (specifically spvp)…. insert personal attack because I’m crying so hard…

Jason Segel.2908:

Good guardians can survive against anything for a long time. You aren’t a good guardian if you can’t.

Depends on what’s attacking them really – with the current well necro meta, guardians don’t last very long in 2v1’s without giving up neuts. All it really takes is some combination of wells, shatters, bomb/nade spam, and poison fields spammed on point.

If your guardian friends are surviving 3v1’s for “a very long time”, then the other guys are doing something laughably wrong or simply running builds not suitable for bunker busting.

Embershard.7294:

you dont have to have plague form ready to use all yur elites. I roll around with my golem up and switch to plague form as soon as i need it. as soon as you switch to the plague the golem dies so you need good timing. In Tpvp i node hold but usually initiate with the golem out so them think im not a plague user.

If plague/lich form is on cooldown you cannot switch your elites around. If golem is summoned and “charge” is not on cooldown you can switch your elite to lich or plague.