Guild Wars 2

I Agree with this but they need to award tickets to the winners or have something you can use to decrease the amount of tickets use for rentry because at this point, winning gems is stupid because it goes back to rebuying tickets. We can’t really even buy anything on the gem store because we need the gems for tickets. There is also nothing even for pvp in the gem store. This idea would mean the last 4 spots would have to spend less gems on buying tickets. But I agree with this idea. But we all know….this is anet and they dont care about pvp enuff it seems, even though they say they do.

Merial.1062:

This would be a great and very needed change imo. The idea of playing more games instead of waiting for 30mins to and hour before you even get to play again and to gain more experience as a team for newer players just makes it amazing.

yes got merilax aka back stab king to reply. now the devs have to reply

Sataarcoeny your ideas have always been great. This would draw me back to playing again. Also once they fix the meta and get more people playing again I WOULD come back. I love GW2 but I just cant justify playing it atm b/c well no one Q’s for Paids.

This is Iya/Athena btw.. Shout out to my boy Vain…. :P

I hope Anet starts listening soon. I check the forums but the lack of fixes to bugs and the TPvP being what it is taking forever is keeping me away. They did not deliver on what they said they wanted to do with SPvP… They should of waited till now and released it a few days b4 the new year. They woulda had more time to implement the things they wanted AND still launch in 2012.

Having said that we can’t change the past but IF Anet doesn’t do something soon to TPvP then they PVP will totally die out. I remember when there were so many people on it was crazy. Now when i logged on 2 weeks ago the server in the mists was DEAD! And this is Anvil…. I love the game and thank you Sataarcoeny for your ideas. I hope they listen to you.

+1 for the swiss round system

Le bump for le awesome idea lelelelelele

So I guess the idea here is to reward people regardless of how they perform.

I like that. It’s certainly more forgiving and inviting than the current setup.

Israel.7056:

So I guess the idea here is to reward people regardless of how they perform.

I like that. It’s certainly more forgiving and inviting than the current setup.

It isn’t about rewarding people so much as giving them a worthwhile experience for their tournament tickets. The rewards from paid tournaments aren’t very motivating for most people, most people are playing paids because they want to experience a higher level of competition than free tournaments but it is currently very discouraging for new teams when they face one of the top teams in their region in the first round after spending 30-45mins putting a group together and sitting in the queue. This system lets everyone get at minimum 2 matches from a paid tournament and gives middling teams a greater opportunity to face one another.

Israel.7056:

So I guess the idea here is to reward people regardless of how they perform.

I like that. It’s certainly more forgiving and inviting than the current setup.

the main idea behind this is to promote competitive game play and promote teams sticking together and getting better. using the old saying when u fall off the horse get right back on. sitting in the mist after u lose 500-8 gives u to much time to linger on it and its bad for a team. so get them right back in playing

Id play paids more if i could get a consistant team. Also. the cost to enter is high, especially given the learing curve.
ppl moving from free to paid are , from what i hear, likely to be farmed for quite a while.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

the main idea behind this is to promote competitive game play and promote teams sticking together and getting better. using the old saying when u fall off the horse get right back on. sitting in the mist after u lose 500-8 gives u to much time to linger on it and its bad for a team. so get them right back in playing

Don’t worry, knowing Anet by now they will probably follow this thought process :
1. Look at this thread and notice the amount of positive replies saying yes to your proposed change
2. Decide it is offensive to copy paste the idea in to the game and that they want to show how ORIGINAL they really are.
3. Make a COMPLETELY different useless and very weird change that breaks the system even further to which 80% of the few remaining tPVP players will go WTF?
4.????
5.Make a thread and give forum replies for the first 3 days after patch making shallow promises saying “we will closely follow this issue and do the required changes if necessary”. But we all know “closely” can mean anything from 6 months to 5 years
6. Disappear off the place of the planet until the 15th of next month when it’s time to follow the same pattern ( and introduce water combat changes)

The barrier to entry for new teams is awful, it takes alot of pratice to get good, and getting farmed its hard enough to get ppl to join, especially when they have to pay to get in.
So you have low success combined with high cost. Regretfully you wont have many new ppl joining till the barrier to entry is reduced. Make the ticket cost alot lower for paids.

Bump for nice idea.

also, another awesome solution would be to make the tournaments work with only 4 teams (queues 2x fast) so every team has to fight each other team.

Team A, B, C, D join.

1st round. A vs B, C vs D (nifhel)
2nd round. A vs C, B vs D (foefire)
3rd round. A vs D, B vs C (kyhlo)

-If there is a draw a 4rd round in a random map is played
- optional: to make it more exciting you can make a 4rd round featuring the 2 teams with the most points that will fight for the 1st place.
-An interface to see the points each team has after every match must be added.

Pros:
- you wont be the unlucky team facing insert pro team in first round and losing 5 tickets. You will actually fight every team
- Queues twice faster
- Less frustation for losing, you will play all 3 games.
- Unlike in OP’s idea, even if you lose the 1st match the other ones do matter (you are still fighting for 2nd position).
- More tournaments (2x) going on. You are always facing different teams and not always losing to the same top team.
- All maps are equally important

Cons: ?

I can’t speak for other people, I can only speak for myself. I do not know why other people play paid tournaments. Perhaps they enjoy competition for competition’s sake. That’s nice I guess. I don’t really care about bragging rights or whatever. I want to win things I like if I win the game and I want to feel like I can win before I even try to play.

The main reason I find paid tournaments unattractive at present is because I know that I’m unlikely to win first place.

Being guaranteed a medal is a nice idea but what I really want to know (or feel) is that I have a chance of winning first everytime I queue.

This tournament structure SAtaar has proposed is certainly more appealing than the current setup but I think it would become even more appealing if I knew that teams like SAtarr’s wouldn’t even be in the same bracket as teams like mine.

Pvp doesnt work like that isreal. its based of skill. Only 1 team in 8 gets to be the winner. though placing 2nd or 3rd in paids is placing well.

Skill is relative. Skilled compared to whom?

I am better than some players and worse than others. If I only played people who were equal to or worse than me then I would appear to be relatively skilled.

If I were to only play people better than me I will appear relatively unskilled.

My skill is measured relative to my opponent.

But we’re not just talking about pvp or skill though we’re talking about the carrot. We’re talking about incentives.

You want people to play a game. You have to give them a reason to play. You have to find the carrot that more people will find attractive.

I want to know that I can be that one team in eight. I think other people do too. People need to know that they can win first.

At present I don’t think I can be and so it seems to me to be a huge waste of my time. I think this is exactly why so few people are queuing for paid tournaments. They don’t think their odds of success are very high.

So why waste their time?

Israel.7056:

I can’t speak for other people, I can only speak for myself. I do not know why other people play paid tournaments. Perhaps they enjoy competition for competition’s sake. That’s nice I guess. I don’t really care about bragging rights or whatever. I want to win things I like if I win the game and I want to feel like I can win before I even try to play.

The main reason I find paid tournaments unattractive at present is because I know that I’m unlikely to win first place.

Being guaranteed a medal is a nice idea but what I really want to know (or feel) is that I have a chance of winning first everytime I queue.

This tournament structure SAtaar has proposed is certainly more appealing than the current setup but I think it would become even more appealing if I knew that teams like SAtarr’s wouldn’t even be in the same bracket as teams like mine.

i play paid tournament s for the freaking thrill it gets my blood pumping. i fell like i did playing football my whole life. i play for ppl to know when i clucth moment is needed that they can count on me to clutch it. i play for the same reason i do everything in life (to be the best) and in paid its truly the only place i get this rush.

I dont need to know i can win first. I figure i have to pratice enough to get good enough to win. And this isnt rock papper scissors excatly. some teams will lsoe to nearly everybody others beat nearly everybody.
Skill isnt entirely relative. Its like sports. the best (highest rated) team is better than nearly all other teams. But might lose to a specific other good team consitantly cause of match up issues.

@sataarcoeny, YES this exactly.

but overall, its still the best team.

Israel.7056:

Skill is relative. Skilled compared to whom?

I am better than some players and worse than others. If I only played people who were equal to or worse than me then I would appear to be relatively skilled.

If I were to only play people better than me I will appear relatively unskilled.

My skill is measured relative to my opponent.

But we’re not just talking about pvp or skill though we’re talking about the carrot. We’re talking about incentives.

You want people to play a game. You have to give them a reason to play. You have to find the carrot that more people will find attractive.

I want to know that I can be that one team in eight. I think other people do too. People need to know that they can win first.

At present I don’t think I can be and so it seems to me to be a huge waste of my time. I think this is exactly why so few people are queuing for paid tournaments. They don’t think their odds of success are very high.

So why waste their time?

exactly man hoping to be that one team of 8 is hard but hoping to be that 1 or 2 team of 8 makes it all the more fun or hoping to be that 1,2,3,or 4 team of 8 now gives u a 50% chance of acchieving your goal.

what this change proposes is brodining ppl outlook of there own success and lesssining there outlook on failure. if we can do those 2 things this game will be taken to a whole new level.

Something easier to implement would be the 1v1 tourney mode once MMR comes out.

1. Wait for two teams with similar MMR to queue.
2. Queue only those two teams in one tournament.
3. First team to win two rounds wins the tournament.

This way all the top tier teams keep fighting each other across all rounds and everyone else is happy.

Fantastic idea.

One of the biggest problems right now would be that you queue for over and hr, play for 10 mins, get knocked out and go back to the queue for over an hour…

That happens to 4/8 teams, 50% of the people trying to play.

Why? It’s an unnecessary punishment for half the playerbase.

Those 5 tickets you spent 4 hours grinding for are wasted in 10 minutes!

This idea would be really help to encourage more people into Paid Tournaments, and it should be a system that is exclusive to Paid Tournaments due to the ticketing system.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

i play for the same reason i do everything in life (to be the best) and in paid its truly the only place i get this rush.

Well that’s your motivation. That sort of motivation seems typical for elite players. They just seem to want to be better than everyone else because it makes them feel good.

I don’t necessarily care about being the best. I don’t think I’m ever going to be the best. I’m alright and that’s fine with me and for paid tournaments to be robustly successful there needs to be all levels of players playing, not just the elite.

I would be content to do decently well in a lower tier division, particularly if I still got in-game monies and other rewards just for playing but currently that sort of division doesn’t exist.

I’m not saying I don’t like your idea. I do like your idea. I just see it as one piece of the puzzle.

Rewards, rewards, rewards. Give people a reason to play, make them feel comfortable playing at whatever level they’re capable of playing at. Give them options. Give us spectator mode so we can watch the top tier games and learn. These are the things that I think will attract people to paid tournaments. I know they would personally attract me.

daydream.2938:

Skill isnt entirely relative. Its like sports. the best (highest rated) team is better than nearly all other teams.

They are only the best team relative to the other teams out there.

I would do more paids if people invited me over the random bads.

Yep, that about sums it up.

Narcarsis.5739:

I would do more paids if people invited me over the random bads.

Yep, that about sums it up.

dang i wish u were on when i was looking for ppl tonight.

The idea you have is in the right direction. I think it would help if we could guarantee teams all three matches for each paid tournament. Even if there weren’t any rewards it would help, though I feel there should be something to help give an incentive a broader player base play them.

Either way, something needs to be adjusted otherwise the bottom to mid-tier teams will continue to farm the more causal free tournaments for tickets.

To give perspective: I’m probably good enough to handle paid tournaments, but I don’t have more than one, possibly two nights I could dedicate to paid tournaments. Since at my level we’d lose on the first round often enough to drain our tickets. Your system or something similar to it would help players like me get into paid tournaments by helping with tickets, helping bolster the number of teams queuing.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

so all 8 teams play yes? then 4 are kicked out the game (stupid idea for a game were u have to wait for 1-3 hours to play paid) then 2 more kicked out then 1 winner?

so 2 teams get to practice all 3 maps against good teams great but stupid for the other 6 teams.

how about the 8 teams play 4 lose then the 4 winning teams go against eachother in 2 legacy maps. but lets have the 4 losers go against eachother in leagacy also.

then the 2 winning legacy teams play for 1st and second place in kylo like normal but have the 2 losing teams play in kylo for 3rd and 4th place.

then from the losing side the winners of legacy play for 5-6 place and the losers play eachother for 7-8th place in kylo.

lets record in stats what places ppl get from 1-8th place (most ppl will play just for bragging rights)

1st place = 120 gems
2nd place =100 gems
3rd place = 80gems
4th place = 70gems
5th place = 3 tickets 20 gems
6th place = 3 tickets
7th place = 2 tickets 10 gems
8th place = 2 tickets

I have no interest in Gems at all. I have interest in the following

- A actual ladder/ matchmaking that means something.

- Random starting map for each tourne

- Bug Fixes before attempted balance fixes

- Locking down your character at the roster sign up

- More types of play, anything other than 5v5 point domination.

- Fixing stealth rendering

But most of all the ladder, even if it’s unbalanced and a long way from fixed. As long as the players can have a working efficient ladder then people will compete over something as mind numbing as who can count the paint spots on the wall the fastest, so imagine guild wars 2.

That’s a good idea satarr, because right now 3rd and 4th place is the same reward, but it feels very random.
You don’t actually fight for 3rd or 4th, you just lose the 2nd map and randomly get assigned a place.

Also bringing up the practice for all the maps is a good point. The people that actually get to kyhlo, get to practice against a good team on that map, and get better.
But for the people that don’t win the 2nd map get no practice against good people for kyhlo and end up losing when they do get to it.

Asura race should be removed for tournament play, everyone should be a human/norn/sylvari, or whatever normal-sized race to balance out the visual effect advantage. You can do this in fractals/PvE(turning everyone into a char, or a ghost, or whatever) why can’t you do this for paids?

I’m sorry, but we pvpers, as a community shouldn’t be advocating, supporting or encouraging the tournament system as it stands even with your proposed changes ( which are good changes, but in no way fix any of the games current issues).

Some simple stats to light the way. 2.4 million copies sold. 50% are PvE players. That leaves 1.2 mill players that PvP. Divided up over two regions, then split that by another 50% who don’t do sPvP but instead do WvW (most likely more actually, but these are rough numbers). That leaves us with what, 300k? Take into account 50% attrition and we are down to under 150k players.

This sum of players is divided up between hotjoin, free and now paid tournaments. This is ridiculous. We are a player base that as pvpers are spread into too many small pools of players. I am a free tournament player. I have no interest to play paids in their current state and neither should you.. With a matchmaking rating system, the que times will get worse, not better.. This will not bring enough players back in to make it work, not even remotely.

We need to put players back into the same pool. We need to get rid of the tournament system and specifically the separation between free and paid. If we had a MMR system, where top teams fought each other, why would we need 2 deferent tPvP systems anyway? It makes no sense. needing 40 players to start a 5v5 match is also madness. Tournaments should be monthly/yearly. Outside of that, get a 5v5 premade que and a solo/duo que in the game on random maps.

Anything other than this and the game"s sPvP scene slowly dies, all balance bullkittene aside.

Don’t believe me? Go into WvW. I tried it for the first time the other day. It was full, absolutely chockers. That’s where the pvp minded players are at the moment. We can bag it all we want, call it PvX etc but if people are playing it, it’s thriving. Like it or not, the crowd that tell me to suck it up and L2P are the crowd that are killing this game. Go to Lions Arch, PvE’ers love this game, we should have that same satisfaction.

My 2 cents. I enjoy the pvp, but I won’t wait an hour for a competitive game and neither will most people. As much as I dislike WoW, I’ll take insta arena pops over an hour wait to do a 5v5 any day. Thanks for reading.

Trigr.6481:

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

so all 8 teams play yes? then 4 are kicked out the game (stupid idea for a game were u have to wait for 1-3 hours to play paid) then 2 more kicked out then 1 winner?

so 2 teams get to practice all 3 maps against good teams great but stupid for the other 6 teams.

how about the 8 teams play 4 lose then the 4 winning teams go against eachother in 2 legacy maps. but lets have the 4 losers go against eachother in leagacy also.

then the 2 winning legacy teams play for 1st and second place in kylo like normal but have the 2 losing teams play in kylo for 3rd and 4th place.

then from the losing side the winners of legacy play for 5-6 place and the losers play eachother for 7-8th place in kylo.

lets record in stats what places ppl get from 1-8th place (most ppl will play just for bragging rights)

1st place = 120 gems
2nd place =100 gems
3rd place = 80gems
4th place = 70gems
5th place = 3 tickets 20 gems
6th place = 3 tickets
7th place = 2 tickets 10 gems
8th place = 2 tickets

I have no interest in Gems at all. I have interest in the following

- A actual ladder/ matchmaking that means something.

- Random starting map for each tourne

- Bug Fixes before attempted balance fixes

- Locking down your character at the roster sign up

- More types of play, anything other than 5v5 point domination.

- Fixing stealth rendering

But most of all the ladder, even if it’s unbalanced and a long way from fixed. As long as the players can have a working efficient ladder then people will compete over something as mind numbing as who can count the paint spots on the wall the fastest, so imagine guild wars 2.

im glad u are interested in a ladder now. but if the ladder came out tomorrow u would see me at top from the ground after i pushed u off.

edit: sorry was a little bipolar i just lost to cute. (thats never supposed to happen)

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

Trigr.6481:

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

so all 8 teams play yes? then 4 are kicked out the game (stupid idea for a game were u have to wait for 1-3 hours to play paid) then 2 more kicked out then 1 winner?

so 2 teams get to practice all 3 maps against good teams great but stupid for the other 6 teams.

how about the 8 teams play 4 lose then the 4 winning teams go against eachother in 2 legacy maps. but lets have the 4 losers go against eachother in leagacy also.

then the 2 winning legacy teams play for 1st and second place in kylo like normal but have the 2 losing teams play in kylo for 3rd and 4th place.

then from the losing side the winners of legacy play for 5-6 place and the losers play eachother for 7-8th place in kylo.

lets record in stats what places ppl get from 1-8th place (most ppl will play just for bragging rights)

1st place = 120 gems
2nd place =100 gems
3rd place = 80gems
4th place = 70gems
5th place = 3 tickets 20 gems
6th place = 3 tickets
7th place = 2 tickets 10 gems
8th place = 2 tickets

I have no interest in Gems at all. I have interest in the following

- A actual ladder/ matchmaking that means something.

- Random starting map for each tourne

- Bug Fixes before attempted balance fixes

- Locking down your character at the roster sign up

- More types of play, anything other than 5v5 point domination.

- Fixing stealth rendering

But most of all the ladder, even if it’s unbalanced and a long way from fixed. As long as the players can have a working efficient ladder then people will compete over something as mind numbing as who can count the paint spots on the wall the fastest, so imagine guild wars 2.

im glad u are interested in a ladder now. but if the ladder came out tomorrow u would see me at top from the ground after i pushed u off.

edit: sorry was a little bipolar i just lost to cute. (thats never supposed to happen)

Interesting choice of words. Well I never said I wasn’t interested in ladder. And everyone loses, to think your going to win every game is a comical mindset at best. The team player base is very low at the moment.

We (me and my irl friends) started playing tPvP at the end of september (note that a lot of the good teams now started playing in the beta already, so they already had more experience and these good teams also play more than 4 hours a day). In paid, we haven’t even won once (except for my mate).
So we usually stick with free tournaments. Mostly we face about 1-2 pugs/semi-pugs. We have gotten quite good at it, and are now winning about 50% of the times. Every once in a while, me and my pvp buddies still play paid tourneys, but we simply don’t stand a chance, so we do it for the gear mostly.

The current system allows us to get better, but not even close to the level of these top notch teams.
What happens is this: the top notch community gets better and better, playing against each other, while teams like us (good amateurs :-)) rarely get the chance to face them, and when we do, we’re getting destroyed (I’m always happy if we get to 200 points). We don’t get the chance to study their tactics on the second and third map, so even if we would win the first round, we’d get destroyed in the second round.

So we need different things here: (and I know I am repeating it from other posts, just to say it is important to me and the whole community)
- Different map rotations (why always start with forest of Niflhel? Why isn’t Temple in it it yet?)
- Matchmaking (as was stated above, this would be a great improvement, especially for free tournaments)
- New types of game (I don’t see why a CTF mode would be hard to implement, the christmas PvP minigame was just that, just use the close caps on the current
symmetrical maps as a base and make people spawn close to it (cfr Quake maps, I’ve heard the developers were inspired by it), same goes for a team deathmatch)
- NEW MAPS!
- The stealth thing (super annoying)

A system to save builds on characters to switch between games would be very useful as well.

I must agree with the fact that making the losing teams play against eachother would be a great improvement as well (Making 3rd place an actual achievement).

As for the matchmaking, why not do it with a tier system. You give each player a specific amount of rank points. If they lose, they get less points, If they win, you get more points depending on the average rank of the team you’re playing against. Every time a player is queued for a game, the average rank decides which tier they are playing in and against. This way you get tier-1 tourneys for beginning players, tier-2 tourneys for better players, etc… Best not to make to many tiers (max 3-4) or otherwise the queues will take to long.

As for sPvP, please do something about it. Zerging is actually rewarded, which is a bad thing as people don’t learn tactics this way, leaving them with no true PvP experience whatsoever when they pug for a free tourney.

Ashumet.8674:

We (me and my irl friends) started playing tPvP at the end of september (note that a lot of the good teams now started playing in the beta already, so they already had more experience and these good teams also play more than 4 hours a day). In paid, we haven’t even won once (except for my mate).
So we usually stick with free tournaments. Mostly we face about 1-2 pugs/semi-pugs. We have gotten quite good at it, and are now winning about 50% of the times. Every once in a while, me and my pvp buddies still play paid tourneys, but we simply don’t stand a chance, so we do it for the gear mostly.

The current system allows us to get better, but not even close to the level of these top notch teams.
What happens is this: the top notch community gets better and better, playing against each other, while teams like us (good amateurs :-)) rarely get the chance to face them, and when we do, we’re getting destroyed (I’m always happy if we get to 200 points). We don’t get the chance to study their tactics on the second and third map, so even if we would win the first round, we’d get destroyed in the second round.

So we need different things here: (and I know I am repeating it from other posts, just to say it is important to me and the whole community)
- Different map rotations (why always start with forest of Niflhel? Why isn’t Temple in it it yet?)
- Matchmaking (as was stated above, this would be a great improvement, especially for free tournaments)
- New types of game (I don’t see why a CTF mode would be hard to implement, the christmas PvP minigame was just that, just use the close caps on the current
symmetrical maps as a base and make people spawn close to it (cfr Quake maps, I’ve heard the developers were inspired by it), same goes for a team deathmatch)
- NEW MAPS!
- The stealth thing (super annoying)

A system to save builds on characters to switch between games would be very useful as well.

I must agree with the fact that making the losing teams play against eachother would be a great improvement as well (Making 3rd place an actual achievement).

As for the matchmaking, why not do it with a tier system. You give each player a specific amount of rank points. If they lose, they get less points, If they win, you get more points depending on the average rank of the team you’re playing against. Every time a player is queued for a game, the average rank decides which tier they are playing in and against. This way you get tier-1 tourneys for beginning players, tier-2 tourneys for better players, etc… Best not to make to many tiers (max 3-4) or otherwise the queues will take to long.

As for sPvP, please do something about it. Zerging is actually rewarded, which is a bad thing as people don’t learn tactics this way, leaving them with no true PvP experience whatsoever when they pug for a free tourney.

great reply man. a lot of thought in here. but yes ppl need more goals to achieve for other then just 1st otherwise u have 7 upset teams.

nothing would get me doin paids. they need to remove tournaments from regular play and leave them as a month end thing. make normal games 1 team vs 1 team with ladder

needing 40 people for standard daily play is just dumb

I think this would help our newly formed team very much. Frees are not much of a challenge unless we find a like-minded team queuing them b/c paids aren’t popping yet, but it is really frustrating to lose on map 1 due to bad luck on the bracket set up.

We would love to practice the second and third map against competitive pre-formed teams more often, and having a guaranteed 3 games for my 5 tickets would be great.

Knock all you want on paids, but I think they do effectively separate competitive pre-formed teams from total randoms without voice coms. I don’t think there is any total randoms or solo-queuers in paids. Frees would be nicer if they just gave everyone who played in the tourney a single tourney ticket – it would remove the impression of good teams “farming tickets” in frees (which at least to my team, seems really silly b/c we play frees only because its better than hotjoin in terms of a competitive game, not to farm tickets. You’re way better off PvE farming gold and trading gold for gems to buy tickets. Frees are a horribly inefficient way to farm tickets).

I think the loser’s bracket idea is worth supporting because it is feasible that this could be implemented easily with very little coding necessary on Anet’s part. There are other problems sure, but this is a simple change that I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who truly would not want this. So far the negative posts on this thread have all been saying “don’t do this because other things are more important” or “this wont fix pvp” but none of them say it will make it worse.

Please do this!

Kavia.8249:

I think this would help our newly formed team very much. Frees are not much of a challenge unless we find a like-minded team queuing them b/c paids aren’t popping yet, but it is really frustrating to lose on map 1 due to bad luck on the bracket set up.

We would love to practice the second and third map against competitive pre-formed teams more often, and having a guaranteed 3 games for my 5 tickets would be great.

Knock all you want on paids, but I think they do effectively separate competitive pre-formed teams from total randoms without voice coms. I don’t think there is any total randoms or solo-queuers in paids. Frees would be nicer if they just gave everyone who played in the tourney a single tourney ticket – it would remove the impression of good teams “farming tickets” in frees (which at least to my team, seems really silly b/c we play frees only because its better than hotjoin in terms of a competitive game, not to farm tickets. You’re way better off PvE farming gold and trading gold for gems to buy tickets. Frees are a horribly inefficient way to farm tickets).

I think the loser’s bracket idea is worth supporting because it is feasible that this could be implemented easily with very little coding necessary on Anet’s part. There are other problems sure, but this is a simple change that I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who truly would not want this. So far the negative posts on this thread have all been saying “don’t do this because other things are more important” or “this wont fix pvp” but none of them say it will make it worse.

Please do this!

why do you call it bad luck of bracket setup? even if they did seeding worst team plays best team, that’s how seeded tournaments work. It would be stupid to have equal rank teams playing each other in the opening rounds. Even when they add rankings it will be highest rank team (1) plays lowest ranked (8), 2v7, 3v6, 4v5. More of a reason why tournaments are a dumb idea.

so if they add rankings and seed tournaments like all tournaments are, if you are lowest ranked team queuing for paids you will face #1 team 1st round, every game. Enjoy!

Sprawl.3891:

why do you call it bad luck of bracket setup? even if they did seeding worst team plays best team, that’s how seeded tournaments work. It would be stupid to have equal rank teams playing each other in the opening rounds. Even when they add rankings it will be highest rank team (1) plays lowest ranked (8), 2v7, 3v6, 4v5. More of a reason why tournaments are a dumb idea.

so if they add rankings and seed tournaments like all tournaments are, if you are lowest ranked team queuing for paids you will face #1 team 1st round, every game. Enjoy!

I call it bad luck b/c who you meet in round 1 is essentially random at the moment, and whether you get to play 2-3 games vs. 1 for your 5 tickets is kinda luck of the draw even if you’re better than most teams in the tourney. I just really like the idea of getting a guaranteed 3 games for your “money”.

Rankings and seeding assume you had preliminary rounds to determine seed position. Since we don’t have that (yet), they should do a multilevel tournament. See: http://tinyurl.com/bb85vu3

Kavia.8249:

I think this would help our newly formed team very much. Frees are not much of a challenge unless we find a like-minded team queuing them b/c paids aren’t popping yet, but it is really frustrating to lose on map 1 due to bad luck on the bracket set up.

We would love to practice the second and third map against competitive pre-formed teams more often, and having a guaranteed 3 games for my 5 tickets would be great.

Knock all you want on paids, but I think they do effectively separate competitive pre-formed teams from total randoms without voice coms. I don’t think there is any total randoms or solo-queuers in paids. Frees would be nicer if they just gave everyone who played in the tourney a single tourney ticket – it would remove the impression of good teams “farming tickets” in frees (which at least to my team, seems really silly b/c we play frees only because its better than hotjoin in terms of a competitive game, not to farm tickets. You’re way better off PvE farming gold and trading gold for gems to buy tickets. Frees are a horribly inefficient way to farm tickets).

I think the loser’s bracket idea is worth supporting because it is feasible that this could be implemented easily with very little coding necessary on Anet’s part. There are other problems sure, but this is a simple change that I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who truly would not want this. So far the negative posts on this thread have all been saying “don’t do this because other things are more important” or “this wont fix pvp” but none of them say it will make it worse.

Please do this!

great reply bro

Sprawl.3891:

Kavia.8249:

I think this would help our newly formed team very much. Frees are not much of a challenge unless we find a like-minded team queuing them b/c paids aren’t popping yet, but it is really frustrating to lose on map 1 due to bad luck on the bracket set up.

We would love to practice the second and third map against competitive pre-formed teams more often, and having a guaranteed 3 games for my 5 tickets would be great.

Knock all you want on paids, but I think they do effectively separate competitive pre-formed teams from total randoms without voice coms. I don’t think there is any total randoms or solo-queuers in paids. Frees would be nicer if they just gave everyone who played in the tourney a single tourney ticket – it would remove the impression of good teams “farming tickets” in frees (which at least to my team, seems really silly b/c we play frees only because its better than hotjoin in terms of a competitive game, not to farm tickets. You’re way better off PvE farming gold and trading gold for gems to buy tickets. Frees are a horribly inefficient way to farm tickets).

I think the loser’s bracket idea is worth supporting because it is feasible that this could be implemented easily with very little coding necessary on Anet’s part. There are other problems sure, but this is a simple change that I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who truly would not want this. So far the negative posts on this thread have all been saying “don’t do this because other things are more important” or “this wont fix pvp” but none of them say it will make it worse.

Please do this!

why do you call it bad luck of bracket setup? even if they did seeding worst team plays best team, that’s how seeded tournaments work. It would be stupid to have equal rank teams playing each other in the opening rounds. Even when they add rankings it will be highest rank team (1) plays lowest ranked (8), 2v7, 3v6, 4v5. More of a reason why tournaments are a dumb idea.

so if they add rankings and seed tournaments like all tournaments are, if you are lowest ranked team queuing for paids you will face #1 team 1st round, every game. Enjoy!

You have a separate thread for this complaint, please don’t get us off topic

Kavia.8249:

Sprawl.3891:

why do you call it bad luck of bracket setup? even if they did seeding worst team plays best team, that’s how seeded tournaments work. It would be stupid to have equal rank teams playing each other in the opening rounds. Even when they add rankings it will be highest rank team (1) plays lowest ranked (8), 2v7, 3v6, 4v5. More of a reason why tournaments are a dumb idea.

so if they add rankings and seed tournaments like all tournaments are, if you are lowest ranked team queuing for paids you will face #1 team 1st round, every game. Enjoy!

I call it bad luck b/c who you meet in round 1 is essentially random at the moment, and whether you get to play 2-3 games vs. 1 for your 5 tickets is kinda luck of the draw even if you’re better than most teams in the tourney. I just really like the idea of getting a guaranteed 3 games for your “money”.

Rankings and seeding assume you had preliminary rounds to determine seed position. Since we don’t have that (yet), they should do a multilevel tournament. See: http://tinyurl.com/bb85vu3

would be nice but theres no way we are getting anything new with tournaments before february ladder/pvp update

Sprawl.3891:

nothing would get me doin paids. they need to remove tournaments from regular play and leave them as a month end thing. make normal games 1 team vs 1 team with ladder

needing 40 people for standard daily play is just dumb

+1

I think OP idea is great, But still 1 match would be better atleast for casuals

2013 lets go guild wars time to hit eport

I really like this idea sataarcoeny This would help guilds like ENG a lot because right now, we just cant get in enough games vs people like you. So we can’t work on recovery strats. We either have a chance to win at the start if we win the initial fights, or we lose. We really want to improve but with the current state of things we run out of tickets before we can really hammer in lots of games to work out some kinks in our strategies. I feel that there are a lot of teams in the same spot we are in that frees are too easy but when we go into paids we will get destroyed by the very top teams.

tl dr: i don’t mind getting beaten by much better players, I just want a way to hammer my head into the wall enough times that I can break through it ,and start giving all of you guys really good games. Your idea would give me a way to do that

Right now the system protects the guilds at the top as it makes it difficult for new teams to pratice vs those already existing top teams.

Honestly if the barrier to entry came down (either more games per tourny) OR lessen the cost of tournies significantly would this change as things stand.

I think this is a great idea Sataar! It would bring more teams to paids for better rewards, and teams would be getting tons of practice instead of waiting in queue for the 1 cycle to finish. We need more than a few hours of paids a night and sometimes we dont even get that!

<3

Kontrol

Something I forgot to mention. I don’t know if this would hurt, (mainly because I can’t do Paids) or not but maybe allow paids to be pugged, but you still have to pay for them of course. This would help the paid tournament queues slightly but diminish the gear they give.

My question is what do some of the players that actually DO paids feel about a change like this?

P.S This would of course be on top of the change SAtaarcoeny made.

I think paids are going to stay the same or on a decline(they are better on EU in my opinion but transferring cross region servers is currently out of the question with the transfer bug). Basically once this game releases the ranked system paids can get better. Hopefully they are smart enough to have a team ranked Q and a ranked solo Q and somehow figure out how to normalize the solo Q so there is a balance of classes otherwise no one will ever Q solo… and then it’ll go back to how it is.

You have to keep it competitive for your good players that are casual, but don’t want to devote their life around a schedule of a team. You have to nurture the weak playerss that come into your game so they don’t quit. AND you have to please the veteran dedicated super good players last because they make up a very small sample of your player base. Also include spectator mode in matches if you’re serious about Esports.

Akumetsu.8591:

I really like this idea sataarcoeny This would help guilds like ENG a lot because right now, we just cant get in enough games vs people like you. So we can’t work on recovery strats. We either have a chance to win at the start if we win the initial fights, or we lose. We really want to improve but with the current state of things we run out of tickets before we can really hammer in lots of games to work out some kinks in our strategies. I feel that there are a lot of teams in the same spot we are in that frees are too easy but when we go into paids we will get destroyed by the very top teams.

tl dr: i don’t mind getting beaten by much better players, I just want a way to hammer my head into the wall enough times that I can break through it ,and start giving all of you guys really good games. Your idea would give me a way to do that

regrouping and after losing 2 points is just as important as being able to win the first fight. so yes more games would help your team get better at it i hope they implement this for that reason also. nice reply

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Something I forgot to mention. I don’t know if this would hurt, (mainly because I can’t do Paids) or not but maybe allow paids to be pugged, but you still have to pay for them of course. This would help the paid tournament queues slightly but diminish the gear they give.

My question is what do some of the players that actually DO paids feel about a change like this?

P.S This would of course be on top of the change SAtaarcoeny made.

i personally would never want paids to be pugged on the reg because we need that competition. there was one main team that liked beating new teams but would quit paid when the good teams got on. i dont fell that is acceptable for a competitive team.
if they let pugs in then the competitiveness would drop i think.

but great reply bro that is just my opinion.

This is a great idea overall. I would just add that this cannot be implemented for free tournaments until a deserter debuff is added. Solo queue players are already being asked to 4v5 every few matches—it would really sting to have to 4v5 three matches in a row (or worse, 4v5, then 2v5, then 1v5…or just wait it out in the spawnpoint).

It would also probably be good to wait until there are ranked single matches or a random vs random game mode.

I still support the idea, but it’s not something that we want to see tomorrow. After a couple much-needed changes pave the way, this will be a good change to the tourney system.

daydream.2938:

Right now the system protects the guilds at the top as it makes it difficult for new teams to pratice vs those already existing top teams.

Honestly if the barrier to entry came down (either more games per tourny) OR lessen the cost of tournies significantly would this change as things stand.

vain used to say it all the time in stream. "this game is so fast and for new ppl trying to catch up to us now is so hard, 2 weeks ago to now or 1 month ago to now the game has evolved so much and if your not making it evolve your in trouble.

so its more then just tickets holding new teams back its time in advanced games. 2-3 hours a night is not enough especially if u only get 30 min of that 3 hrs