Guild Wars 2

Did someone make a conscious decision to not be level 80? No.
Did someone make a conscious decision to nerf their damage or survivability in order to buff their own drops? Yes.
Did that someone then make a conscious decision to join a group with their intentionally nerfed selves and get better drops than their group in return for them doing less? Also yes.

Mechanics that do little but encourage kitteny behavior shouldn’t be in the game.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Did someone make a conscious decision to not be level 80? No.
Did someone make a conscious decision to nerf their damage or survivability in order to buff their own drops? Yes.
Did that someone then make a conscious decision to join a group with their intentionally nerfed selves and get better drops than their group in return for them doing less? Also yes.

Mechanics that do little but encourage kitteny behavior shouldn’t be in the game.

Did someone make a conscious decision to not be level 80? No. Yes they did they could have waited till they were level 80, instead they did it at 35 to gain XP to level faster that only helps them. As we all know a 35 has lets traits and stats than a level 80. I am nto saying they need to make dungeons lv 80 only I don’t care if I have a 35 in a AC run. But essentially your saying that MF people are doing the same thing these level 35s are doing. Sure it isn’t about getting better loot by " hadicapping the party " it is about Gaining levels and “Handicapping the party”

They make a conscience decision to join a AC exp dungeon at a lower level knowing they don’t have a full 70 trait points the level 80 gear with better stats, for the personal gain of leveling faster. Which I am suspecting that a level 35 in AC exp is far worse than 48% decreaase in stats and effectiveness.

Just like a MF gear person takes a lesser stat knowing it holds no benifit to the group, for the personal gain to get drops and gold faster.

The scenarios are the same just different motivation, and yet your fine with a 35 joining an AC run but "Pitch forks and torches " raise’s when a MF person joins the group.

Did someone make a conscious decision to nerf their damage or survivability in order to buff their own drops? Yes.

Did someone make a conscious decision to enter a dungeon with Debilitated stats in order to buff their own Leveling process? Yes

Did that someone then make a conscious decision to join a group with their intentionally nerfed selves and get better drops than their group in return for them doing less? Also yes.

Did that someone make a consious decision to join a group with their intentionally nerfed self and not being 80 with only 15 trait points and get better XP to level faster in return for doing less? Also yes

Then by your standard this statement

Mechanics that do little but encourage kitteny behavior shouldn’t be in the game.

Also applies to allowing non 80’s in exploaratory dungeons applies.

Another point I forgot to add to that then: You can’t hide the fact that you’re not level 80. If a group accepts a sub-80 then they do so with full knowledge of the fact that they’re not going to be as powerful as an 80.
MF users aren’t detectable and those so inclined (such as you, as you admitted) can lie about it if the group actually wants to be informed about it.
Yes, this would be solved by a MF buff icon, but that unfortunately leads to an inspection feature, which though it would solve that problem opens up many more.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Another point I forgot to add to that then: You can’t hide the fact that you’re not level 80. If a group accepts a sub-80 then they do so with full knowledge of the fact that they’re not going to be as powerful as an 80.
MF users aren’t detectable and those so inclined (such as you, as you admitted) can lie about it if the group actually wants to be informed about it.
Yes, this would be solved by a MF buff icon, but that unfortunately leads to an inspection feature, which though it would solve that problem opens up many more.

I am a firm supporter of MF being removed, I have read all the post here and at this point Kaimick has a point

if you don’t want it join a guild that doesn’t use it
make a party of friends that don’t use it that is what I do.

his last comment just proved that people have no issue with a lower level but if it is MF now the world is comming apart. I don’t think that a Magic Find Buff will lead to inspect feature in the game, I think that is just an excuse not to support it and get the use of a MF buff that your not using. I do not support MF I hate it but I don’t support a group wide MF buff either. A group wide MF buff from one person just makes the non mf people leechers just like the MF people are now.

As stated before it is ok to leech off them but it is not ok for you to leech of you? It is ok to have a 35 leech in the party but not a MF leech? You want a party of non MF make one of people you know aren’t in MF. If your using the LFG site and complaining then your just be a QQ’er. If and when I use the LFG site I accept the fact that I may get a MF person in the group and as much as I hate it I deal with it. Cause when it really matters I make a group off my freinds list of people I knwo don’t use MF, or I go to my guild which doesn’t use MF gear.

Every single stat except MF benefits everyone in the group (barring condition duration or boon duration when someone doesn’t have a condition or boon). Whether it’s killing enemies faster (less time spent to accomplish it, less risk because enemy dies faster), not dying (more time doing something useful, less wasting other peoples’ time to rez you), or more directly with conditions or boon (or not, which then just makes them kill faster or die less).
The only equipment stat in the game that has no benefit whatsoever to anyone but the user is MF.
Sharing it in some way wouldn’t be leeching off of that person for the same reason that it’s not leeching with any other stat.

Also I don’t much want MF shared either, I want it gone from equipment, but sharing is better than the current state. A personal permanent MF buff such as one bought with skill points or something like that would be fine, as long as it’s not wasting stat points in the process (I don’t count utility infusions because the infusion stats are so utterly insignificant other than AR).

Ok I tried to read it but… spelling…
Watched your video, you started getting into the real issues of handicapping your par- wait a second… is this a video of you showing yourself exploiting a broken game mechanic… o.O

Player Character.9467:

Ok I tried to read it but… spelling…
Watched your video, you started getting into the real issues of handicapping your par- wait a second… is this a video of you showing yourself exploiting a broken game mechanic… o.O

Nah, Read the text window. It’s me being a self rightoues kitten and finishing the event so that the farmers could not exploit it anymore.

I’ll also throw a quick shout out to people not liking MF being a party wide buff.
If you don’t like the idea of the team “leeching” off your MF equipment you could just choose to not wear it. If it was dispalyed as a party wide buff it’s not like they’d know who is bringing the buff anyway.
I figured the idea of making MF a party wide buff was a much better solution to the problems created by the other soultions such as:
*Remvoing MF entireley.
*An inspect gear function
*A buff on characters showing how much MF they are running.

It was an attempt a some good middle ground that could benifit both sides of the argument.

Kaaboose.3897:

If you don’t like the idea of the team “leeching” off your MF equipment you could just choose to not wear it.

Or

• you could run with your guild that doesn’t run MF
• or make a party through your friends list that don’t use MF
• Or just not wear it at all… I mean do dungeons at all

That seems like a pretty good solution, has worked for me thus far and I have no issues with MF in my groups, so why is MF even an issue for you?

I propose something different entirely. Make magic find an extra addition/bonus – like an extra slot (like an infusion or something, which soulbinds that magic find to the item). You shouldn’t HAVE to choose either 1) less combat stats and less efficiency but a slightly better chance of loot or 2) greater combat stats but a horrible chance of better loot. Players should have the best of both worlds – both the combat stats AND magic find, not one or the other.

Put simply, players shouldn’t be punished or have to feel guilty in any way, shape or form, for wanting better loot whilst also keeping the combat stats they deserve. To me, it’s common sense, it’s something that needs to change, and right now we are being punished for wanting to keep our stats, but have magic find as well. I should not have to feel guilty at all. No one should.

Zaoda.1653:

I propose something different entirely. Make magic find an extra addition/bonus – like an extra slot (like an infusion or something, which soulbinds that magic find to the item). You shouldn’t HAVE to choose either 1) less combat stats and less efficiency but a slightly better chance of loot or 2) greater combat stats but a horrible chance of better loot. Players should have the best of both worlds – both the combat stats AND magic find, not one or the other.

Put simply, players shouldn’t be punished or have to feel guilty in any way, shape or form, for wanting better loot whilst also keeping the combat stats they deserve. To me, it’s common sense, it’s something that needs to change, and right now we are being punished for wanting to keep our stats, but have magic find as well. I should not have to feel guilty at all. No one should.

We’ve gone over this one a bit too in the proposed suggestions and while it would be a great solution to the problem it would be difficult and time consuming to impliment.
But hey if anet went for that solution I’d be just as happy as if the proposed solution was implimented.

Got a personal Message today from Shoebox.1026 that I think would have made more sense in the thread itself so here it is:

Shoebox.1026:

I noticed through your whole MF thread you never answer simple questions that would solve your issue with MF.

Again I hate MF if I had my way I would have the kitten thing removed from the game, but I am not the only one playing so.

But everytime My self and others have asked you

Why don’t you run with guilds that don’t use it or friends that don’t use it. You ignore the question, I don’t get it, I mean Arena Net makes these options for players just like you to have to never deal with certain things. Bad players, trolls, MF, ect. and yet you do not take advatage of it, instead in your videos you insult Anet for not thinking or somewhat daft to things that should have been thought over better. Yet here you are doing the saem thing you are boosting about Anet doing, your sitting on your soapbox complaining how this is wrong and it is wronging you and everyone else, and ignoring the fact that by forming groups out of guilds or friends list could ignore this entirly.

I don’t know man, if I were you I would take a step back and really look at your disposition.

I ignored people bringing this up becuase it’s nothing short of a cop out to Anet and explaining it would border on going off topic but since you felt strongly enough to PM me about it here’s my reply:

EVERYTHING in gaming is better when played with friends and player communities. There’s reasons many game reviewers do not increase their overall score if the game is more fun with a friend.
Some do not because that’s not how everyone wants to play the game. Others do not because the game may feature an AI sidekick in place of the player who’s AI is so terrible it hinders enjoyment of the game. Lastly some do not because they feel playing with a friend could make ANYTHING more enjoyable, even the most terrible game, and therefore do not choose to factor it in to their final score in fear of making the games problems seem less problematic then they actually are.
I fall into the later category. In actual fact I DO run dungeons with guildees and friends and as such I have never had to personally deal with ANY of the problems that have come with the state of MF.
Yes, you read right. I dispise what I believe is a flaw in GW2 design even though I have personally never had any bad experiance with it. Why?
Well, just because I have not had any problems with it does not mean I am not sympathetic to the players that have.
Players should not be forced into a guild to be free of this menace. Players should be free to jump into a dungeon of strangers and not have to worry that someone in the group may have ulterior motives that do not benefit the group.
Such a situation is virtually impossible as there’s always players that get their jollies out of tormenting others.
However the current state of MF in groups actually encourages players to do this by offering the temptation of more personal wealth.
I find that falling back on the “You should run as a guild/with players you know and it’s not a problem” defence just highlights how many excuses people are running out of to defend this horrible system.
The proposed change is not going to make your MF gear worthless, it’s not going to be difficult and time consuming to impliment and it’s not going to make getting into a group without it any harder then it is now.
In conclusion if there are any more reasons you have to defend the current state of MF please post them here so we can discuss them, Don’t send me a PM.

GamerToukotsu.4219:

Drawing Guy.3701:

snip

Didn’t read all of it, but first paragraph and wanted to add the following to this post.

Whenever you are wearing Magic Find gear or Berserker gear WHEN you waste a party’s time you are more than likely not going to be invited back to the group.

If you have 3 fights in a dungeon that normally take 2 minutes to kill. Someone has performs badly due to gear and makes it a 4 minute fight, they have essentially wasted 10 minutes of time. Two extra minutes multiplied by five people is ten total minutes wasted because of someones performance in a dungeon.

Now for the real question:

How much is your time worth?

If this were a business, LOL. If I worked 10 more minutes at my job, the amount of money I would make, after taxes, could buy gems and be converted to gold and would exceed the gold producing rate of ANY activity in this game that I could do in 10 minutes. And I don’t make a huge wage. I’m playing a game, not working Wall Street.

Drawing Guy.3701:

… and even if it all is already easy, you’re taking the entire parties time by making the dungeon longer because you are lowering your DPS majorly (not arguing lowering your defense, since the argument of MF is ok because you’re skilled and you don’t need that defense, it should be turned into DPS).

Turned into DPS by which stat exactly? At level 80, it takes 21 points of precision to increase your crit chance by 1%. Crit damage? That’s based on crit chance, so better more precision first. So then Power? What if all my gear already has a power stat? Or were you thinking I was wasting one of my stats on that measly 3% MF in the combo? Hmm 3% times 6, 7, even 8 pieces would give me 24% MF. Not that useful, but that DOES make pretty crappy armor.

Little Secret: That’s not where the MF is in my gear. My DPS is JUST FINE. I think all the MF haters need to look at an effective player that runs MF and then see how you would suggest they alter their stats. And I don’t want to hear a word out of someone who hasn’t touched a crafting profession, cuz you don’t know how much you DON’T KNOW about stat combos. That’s practically a guarantee that your jewelry is crap, unless you’re all ascended out. And please don’t tell me you’re running with the runes that came with that dungeon armor. If you need a proper demonstration, I can hop on my mesmer and his phantasms will EAT YOU. Any damage I do is practically a bonus compared to them.

Oh yeah, and does everyone remember that trait lines give you stats? There’s 700 points of stats that won’t show up when you ask them to ping their armor. Did you want to audit that too? Why don’t you just put on a rubber glove and do a thorough exam and make sure everything’s in order.

By the time you analyze and approve your party’s armor, you could have already been halfway through that dungeon.

The only thing dramatically wrong about having full MF gear is that you’re weaker than a full berserk (I’m playing hybrid that means with full MF gear I actually hit more damage or at least more crit damage when with my few percent)

Plus MF gear has no defense or vitality. This means if you play on MF gear you have to be able to dodge and avoid most of the bosses attacks but you’re stronger than a hybrid.

I don’t understand why you people complain about full MF gear players being weak. They’re stronger than a hybrid version of them so be happy with that and expect them to be good players.

It’s like someone saying “I rather go on damage than agony resistance” and doing a fractal 20 run with 0 AR. He might be able to survive till jade maw by only dodging and avoiding. MF is no big difference hear.

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

The only thing dramatically wrong about having full MF gear is that you’re weaker than a full berserk (I’m playing hybrid that means with full MF gear I actually hit more damage or at least more crit damage when with my few percent)

Plus MF gear has no defense or vitality. This means if you play on MF gear you have to be able to dodge and avoid most of the bosses attacks but you’re stronger than a hybrid.

I don’t understand why you people complain about full MF gear players being weak. They’re stronger than a hybrid version of them so be happy with that and expect them to be good players.

It’s like someone saying “I rather go on damage than agony resistance” and doing a fractal 20 run with 0 AR. He might be able to survive till jade maw by only dodging and avoiding. MF is no big difference hear.

You have no Major stats with MF gear. A substantial drop in stats reguardless of how you look at. As I’ve said before players thinking it doesn’t make a differnce just highlights the need to have it shared so that it’s not a useless stat to the rest of the party.
The only players NOT wanting this changed are the ones that will lose the ability to leach off other players.

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

The only thing dramatically wrong about having full MF gear is that you’re weaker than a full berserk (I’m playing hybrid that means with full MF gear I actually hit more damage or at least more crit damage when with my few percent)

Plus MF gear has no defense or vitality. This means if you play on MF gear you have to be able to dodge and avoid most of the bosses attacks but you’re stronger than a hybrid.

I don’t understand why you people complain about full MF gear players being weak. They’re stronger than a hybrid version of them so be happy with that and expect them to be good players.

It’s like someone saying “I rather go on damage than agony resistance” and doing a fractal 20 run with 0 AR. He might be able to survive till jade maw by only dodging and avoiding. MF is no big difference hear.

You have no Major stats with MF gear. A substantial drop in stats reguardless of how you look at. As I’ve said before players thinking it doesn’t make a differnce just highlights the need to have it shared so that it’s not a useless stat to the rest of the party.
The only players NOT wanting this changed are the ones that will lose the ability to leach off other players.

Yes it’s major stat is MF still it gives you power and precision. As a hybrid user half my gear is based on power and precision the rest is based on power defense. My precision is suffering from this thus my total end damage is lower without MF but I stand longer and survive longer. MF gear decreases my damage by about ~300 and my health and defense by ~400 and increases my precision by at least +40%.

If I crit more often I don’t need as much damage anymore as almost every attack hits heavily. Plus I stack might for 30% chance on critical hit thus magic find gear gives me an extra might boost.

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

The only thing dramatically wrong about having full MF gear is that you’re weaker than a full berserk (I’m playing hybrid that means with full MF gear I actually hit more damage or at least more crit damage when with my few percent)

Plus MF gear has no defense or vitality. This means if you play on MF gear you have to be able to dodge and avoid most of the bosses attacks but you’re stronger than a hybrid.

I don’t understand why you people complain about full MF gear players being weak. They’re stronger than a hybrid version of them so be happy with that and expect them to be good players.

It’s like someone saying “I rather go on damage than agony resistance” and doing a fractal 20 run with 0 AR. He might be able to survive till jade maw by only dodging and avoiding. MF is no big difference hear.

You have no Major stats with MF gear. A substantial drop in stats reguardless of how you look at. As I’ve said before players thinking it doesn’t make a differnce just highlights the need to have it shared so that it’s not a useless stat to the rest of the party.
The only players NOT wanting this changed are the ones that will lose the ability to leach off other players.

Yes it’s major stat is MF still it gives you power and precision. As a hybrid user half my gear is based on power and precision the rest is based on power defense. My precision is suffering from this thus my total end damage is lower without MF but I stand longer and survive longer. MF gear decreases my damage by about ~300 and my health and defense by ~400 and increases my precision by at least +40%.

If I crit more often I don’t need as much damage anymore as almost every attack hits heavily. Plus I stack might for 30% chance on critical hit thus magic find gear gives me an extra might boost.

Then just use rampagers and be even MORE effective.

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

The only thing dramatically wrong about having full MF gear is that you’re weaker than a full berserk (I’m playing hybrid that means with full MF gear I actually hit more damage or at least more crit damage when with my few percent)

Plus MF gear has no defense or vitality. This means if you play on MF gear you have to be able to dodge and avoid most of the bosses attacks but you’re stronger than a hybrid.

I don’t understand why you people complain about full MF gear players being weak. They’re stronger than a hybrid version of them so be happy with that and expect them to be good players.

It’s like someone saying “I rather go on damage than agony resistance” and doing a fractal 20 run with 0 AR. He might be able to survive till jade maw by only dodging and avoiding. MF is no big difference hear.

You have no Major stats with MF gear. A substantial drop in stats reguardless of how you look at. As I’ve said before players thinking it doesn’t make a differnce just highlights the need to have it shared so that it’s not a useless stat to the rest of the party.
The only players NOT wanting this changed are the ones that will lose the ability to leach off other players.

Yes it’s major stat is MF still it gives you power and precision. As a hybrid user half my gear is based on power and precision the rest is based on power defense. My precision is suffering from this thus my total end damage is lower without MF but I stand longer and survive longer. MF gear decreases my damage by about ~300 and my health and defense by ~400 and increases my precision by at least +40%.

If I crit more often I don’t need as much damage anymore as almost every attack hits heavily. Plus I stack might for 30% chance on critical hit thus magic find gear gives me an extra might boost.

Then just use rampagers and be even MORE effective.

Or Berserker’s.

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

The only thing dramatically wrong about having full MF gear is that you’re weaker than a full berserk (I’m playing hybrid that means with full MF gear I actually hit more damage or at least more crit damage when with my few percent)

Plus MF gear has no defense or vitality. This means if you play on MF gear you have to be able to dodge and avoid most of the bosses attacks but you’re stronger than a hybrid.

I don’t understand why you people complain about full MF gear players being weak. They’re stronger than a hybrid version of them so be happy with that and expect them to be good players.

It’s like someone saying “I rather go on damage than agony resistance” and doing a fractal 20 run with 0 AR. He might be able to survive till jade maw by only dodging and avoiding. MF is no big difference hear.

You have no Major stats with MF gear. A substantial drop in stats reguardless of how you look at. As I’ve said before players thinking it doesn’t make a differnce just highlights the need to have it shared so that it’s not a useless stat to the rest of the party.
The only players NOT wanting this changed are the ones that will lose the ability to leach off other players.

Yes it’s major stat is MF still it gives you power and precision. As a hybrid user half my gear is based on power and precision the rest is based on power defense. My precision is suffering from this thus my total end damage is lower without MF but I stand longer and survive longer. MF gear decreases my damage by about ~300 and my health and defense by ~400 and increases my precision by at least +40%.

If I crit more often I don’t need as much damage anymore as almost every attack hits heavily. Plus I stack might for 30% chance on critical hit thus magic find gear gives me an extra might boost.

Then just use rampagers and be even MORE effective.

Why should I go on rampage? I don’t want condition damage. I want damage, precision, defense, vitality and optionally crit or magic find.
Plus I’m not the person who leech other people. I just think that the idea of group based MF is just weird. Plus I too am one of the magic find people that are the last standing (at least if I only go on MF with gear else I’m pretty much on the ground almost all the time)

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

The only thing dramatically wrong about having full MF gear is that you’re weaker than a full berserk (I’m playing hybrid that means with full MF gear I actually hit more damage or at least more crit damage when with my few percent)

Plus MF gear has no defense or vitality. This means if you play on MF gear you have to be able to dodge and avoid most of the bosses attacks but you’re stronger than a hybrid.

I don’t understand why you people complain about full MF gear players being weak. They’re stronger than a hybrid version of them so be happy with that and expect them to be good players.

It’s like someone saying “I rather go on damage than agony resistance” and doing a fractal 20 run with 0 AR. He might be able to survive till jade maw by only dodging and avoiding. MF is no big difference hear.

You have no Major stats with MF gear. A substantial drop in stats reguardless of how you look at. As I’ve said before players thinking it doesn’t make a differnce just highlights the need to have it shared so that it’s not a useless stat to the rest of the party.
The only players NOT wanting this changed are the ones that will lose the ability to leach off other players.

Yes it’s major stat is MF still it gives you power and precision. As a hybrid user half my gear is based on power and precision the rest is based on power defense. My precision is suffering from this thus my total end damage is lower without MF but I stand longer and survive longer. MF gear decreases my damage by about ~300 and my health and defense by ~400 and increases my precision by at least +40%.

If I crit more often I don’t need as much damage anymore as almost every attack hits heavily. Plus I stack might for 30% chance on critical hit thus magic find gear gives me an extra might boost.

Then just use rampagers and be even MORE effective.

Why should I go on rampage? I don’t want condition damage. I want damage, precision, defense, vitality and optionally crit or magic find.
Plus I’m not the person who leech other people. I just think that the idea of group based MF is just weird. Plus I too am one of the magic find people that are the last standing (at least if I only go on MF with gear else I’m pretty much on the ground almost all the time)

If you don’t want condition damage then take Berserker’s. Not only does it replace MF with something useful (crit damage) it also bumps Power up to a major stat instead of MF, so you now have more Power too. So you will now always deal more damage, especially on crits.
And yeah, you kind of are leeching when you go MF. You’re passing on the burden of some of the damage you ought to be doing to other people, using up everyone’s time, in order to get more money for yourself only.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

The only thing dramatically wrong about having full MF gear is that you’re weaker than a full berserk (I’m playing hybrid that means with full MF gear I actually hit more damage or at least more crit damage when with my few percent)

Plus MF gear has no defense or vitality. This means if you play on MF gear you have to be able to dodge and avoid most of the bosses attacks but you’re stronger than a hybrid.

I don’t understand why you people complain about full MF gear players being weak. They’re stronger than a hybrid version of them so be happy with that and expect them to be good players.

It’s like someone saying “I rather go on damage than agony resistance” and doing a fractal 20 run with 0 AR. He might be able to survive till jade maw by only dodging and avoiding. MF is no big difference hear.

You have no Major stats with MF gear. A substantial drop in stats reguardless of how you look at. As I’ve said before players thinking it doesn’t make a differnce just highlights the need to have it shared so that it’s not a useless stat to the rest of the party.
The only players NOT wanting this changed are the ones that will lose the ability to leach off other players.

Yes it’s major stat is MF still it gives you power and precision. As a hybrid user half my gear is based on power and precision the rest is based on power defense. My precision is suffering from this thus my total end damage is lower without MF but I stand longer and survive longer. MF gear decreases my damage by about ~300 and my health and defense by ~400 and increases my precision by at least +40%.

If I crit more often I don’t need as much damage anymore as almost every attack hits heavily. Plus I stack might for 30% chance on critical hit thus magic find gear gives me an extra might boost.

Then just use rampagers and be even MORE effective.

Why should I go on rampage? I don’t want condition damage. I want damage, precision, defense, vitality and optionally crit or magic find.
Plus I’m not the person who leech other people. I just think that the idea of group based MF is just weird. Plus I too am one of the magic find people that are the last standing (at least if I only go on MF with gear else I’m pretty much on the ground almost all the time)

If you don’t want condition damage then take Berserker’s. Not only does it replace MF with something useful (crit damage) it also bumps Power up to a major stat instead of MF, so you now have more Power too. So you will now always deal more damage, especially on crits.
And yeah, you kind of are leeching when you go MF. You’re passing on the burden of some of the damage you ought to be doing to other people, using up everyone’s time, in order to get more money for yourself only.

For some reason I do use berserker. No seriously I already mentioned I use berserker-soldier-hybrid. But then my damage is – as I already said – not as high as the total I reach with MF, however with berseker-soldier-hybrid I am able to stay alive even longer and even take some hits from the enemies.

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

The only thing dramatically wrong about having full MF gear is that you’re weaker than a full berserk (I’m playing hybrid that means with full MF gear I actually hit more damage or at least more crit damage when with my few percent)

Plus MF gear has no defense or vitality. This means if you play on MF gear you have to be able to dodge and avoid most of the bosses attacks but you’re stronger than a hybrid.

I don’t understand why you people complain about full MF gear players being weak. They’re stronger than a hybrid version of them so be happy with that and expect them to be good players.

It’s like someone saying “I rather go on damage than agony resistance” and doing a fractal 20 run with 0 AR. He might be able to survive till jade maw by only dodging and avoiding. MF is no big difference hear.

You have no Major stats with MF gear. A substantial drop in stats reguardless of how you look at. As I’ve said before players thinking it doesn’t make a differnce just highlights the need to have it shared so that it’s not a useless stat to the rest of the party.
The only players NOT wanting this changed are the ones that will lose the ability to leach off other players.

Yes it’s major stat is MF still it gives you power and precision. As a hybrid user half my gear is based on power and precision the rest is based on power defense. My precision is suffering from this thus my total end damage is lower without MF but I stand longer and survive longer. MF gear decreases my damage by about ~300 and my health and defense by ~400 and increases my precision by at least +40%.

If I crit more often I don’t need as much damage anymore as almost every attack hits heavily. Plus I stack might for 30% chance on critical hit thus magic find gear gives me an extra might boost.

Then just use rampagers and be even MORE effective.

Why should I go on rampage? I don’t want condition damage. I want damage, precision, defense, vitality and optionally crit or magic find.
Plus I’m not the person who leech other people. I just think that the idea of group based MF is just weird. Plus I too am one of the magic find people that are the last standing (at least if I only go on MF with gear else I’m pretty much on the ground almost all the time)

If you don’t want condition damage then take Berserker’s. Not only does it replace MF with something useful (crit damage) it also bumps Power up to a major stat instead of MF, so you now have more Power too. So you will now always deal more damage, especially on crits.
And yeah, you kind of are leeching when you go MF. You’re passing on the burden of some of the damage you ought to be doing to other people, using up everyone’s time, in order to get more money for yourself only.

For some reason I do use berserker. No seriously I already mentioned I use berserker-soldier-hybrid. But then my damage is – as I already said – not as high as the total I reach with MF, however with berseker-soldier-hybrid I am able to stay alive even longer and even take some hits from the enemies.

Then you’re arguing that full Explorer’s has better damage but worse survivability than your hybrid setup. As in, a tradeoff. Tradeoffs aren’t directly comparable because sometimes they’ll be better, sometimes they’ll be worse. However, full Berserker’s will have even better damage than full Explorer’s will give in your example, because it doesn’t replace combat stats with non-combat stats. It will always perform the same (on defense) or better (on offense) than Explorer’s, never worse.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

The only thing dramatically wrong about having full MF gear is that you’re weaker than a full berserk (I’m playing hybrid that means with full MF gear I actually hit more damage or at least more crit damage when with my few percent)

Plus MF gear has no defense or vitality. This means if you play on MF gear you have to be able to dodge and avoid most of the bosses attacks but you’re stronger than a hybrid.

I don’t understand why you people complain about full MF gear players being weak. They’re stronger than a hybrid version of them so be happy with that and expect them to be good players.

It’s like someone saying “I rather go on damage than agony resistance” and doing a fractal 20 run with 0 AR. He might be able to survive till jade maw by only dodging and avoiding. MF is no big difference hear.

You have no Major stats with MF gear. A substantial drop in stats reguardless of how you look at. As I’ve said before players thinking it doesn’t make a differnce just highlights the need to have it shared so that it’s not a useless stat to the rest of the party.
The only players NOT wanting this changed are the ones that will lose the ability to leach off other players.

Yes it’s major stat is MF still it gives you power and precision. As a hybrid user half my gear is based on power and precision the rest is based on power defense. My precision is suffering from this thus my total end damage is lower without MF but I stand longer and survive longer. MF gear decreases my damage by about ~300 and my health and defense by ~400 and increases my precision by at least +40%.

If I crit more often I don’t need as much damage anymore as almost every attack hits heavily. Plus I stack might for 30% chance on critical hit thus magic find gear gives me an extra might boost.

Then just use rampagers and be even MORE effective.

Why should I go on rampage? I don’t want condition damage. I want damage, precision, defense, vitality and optionally crit or magic find.
Plus I’m not the person who leech other people. I just think that the idea of group based MF is just weird. Plus I too am one of the magic find people that are the last standing (at least if I only go on MF with gear else I’m pretty much on the ground almost all the time)

If you don’t want condition damage then take Berserker’s. Not only does it replace MF with something useful (crit damage) it also bumps Power up to a major stat instead of MF, so you now have more Power too. So you will now always deal more damage, especially on crits.
And yeah, you kind of are leeching when you go MF. You’re passing on the burden of some of the damage you ought to be doing to other people, using up everyone’s time, in order to get more money for yourself only.

For some reason I do use berserker. No seriously I already mentioned I use berserker-soldier-hybrid. But then my damage is – as I already said – not as high as the total I reach with MF, however with berseker-soldier-hybrid I am able to stay alive even longer and even take some hits from the enemies.

Then you’re arguing that full Explorer’s has better damage but worse survivability than your hybrid setup. As in, a tradeoff. Tradeoffs aren’t directly comparable because sometimes they’ll be better, sometimes they’ll be worse. However, full Berserker’s will have even better damage than full Explorer’s will give in your example, because it doesn’t replace combat stats with non-combat stats. It will always perform the same (on defense) or better (on offense) than Explorer’s, never worse.

I run MF, but I agree that Explorer’s armor IS a bad stat tradeoff. 3% MF vs. ANYTHING is taking a hit with little reward. My MF comes from Runes, some accessory upgrades and celestial ascended items. Even then, the MF replaces some of my survivability when my survivability is not an issue. My alternate armor puts out the same damage, but less survivability. I don’t get MF from food because I always run with food that has constant regen.

Again, I’m all for MF, but Explorer’s IS bad. ANYTHING else is better:
128 Power – linear to direct damage
128 Precision – 6% increase in crit chance at level 80
128 Toughness – +128 to Armor. Armor is the divisor in direct damage mitigation.
128 Vitality – +1280 HP
128 Condition Damage = +32 Fire Damage per second or ~13 Damage per stack per second of bleeding.

OR

3% MF – Instead of an object having a 10% chance to drop, it has 10.3%

So, yeah, MF via Explorer armor is shooting yourself in the foot, but getting it other ways can still be effective.

Funny thing is, if people wanted to avoid the elitists, they could carry a 2nd set (make sure it looks like your gear your wearing) and ping that instead of their mf set. In the end, mf gear wouldn’t be touched. Am I suggesting an inspect option? NO!

But like someone above said, mf should be a social buff not a personal one. If a full mf geared player does a dungeon with no difficulties, thats no problem. If they run a full mf set and die a lot, thats a problem. If they run a full dps set and die a lot, thats a problem. See where this is going?

Dungeon mechanics arn’t directly linked with good gear, it just helps to have good gear. The only problem I have with mf is to get a good effect from it, one must go fully into mf. For some dungeons, thats a problem, because the loss of dps is quite significant which can hurt your party members.

I’m either/or really. I don’t like mf being a stat you have to equip, but I also don’t see it as selfish as it may seem. If it were a passive bonus based on achievment points or something you worked for like a mini repeatable quest to gain more, I’d be fine. Right now, I’d rather destroy a mob over and over than take even 1 minute longer for a “100%” better drop rate which really isn’t much if you look at how often things drop already. All I know is, mf shouldn’t be something that replaces normal gear stats. It isn’t selfish, but it is dumb imo.

Elusive.9481:

Drawing Guy.3701:

… and even if it all is already easy, you’re taking the entire parties time by making the dungeon longer because you are lowering your DPS majorly (not arguing lowering your defense, since the argument of MF is ok because you’re skilled and you don’t need that defense, it should be turned into DPS).

Turned into DPS by which stat exactly? At level 80, it takes 21 points of precision to increase your crit chance by 1%. Crit damage? That’s based on crit chance, so better more precision first. So then Power? What if all my gear already has a power stat? Or were you thinking I was wasting one of my stats on that measly 3% MF in the combo? Hmm 3% times 6, 7, even 8 pieces would give me 24% MF. Not that useful, but that DOES make pretty crappy armor.

Little Secret: That’s not where the MF is in my gear. My DPS is JUST FINE. I think all the MF haters need to look at an effective player that runs MF and then see how you would suggest they alter their stats. And I don’t want to hear a word out of someone who hasn’t touched a crafting profession, cuz you don’t know how much you DON’T KNOW about stat combos. That’s practically a guarantee that your jewelry is crap, unless you’re all ascended out. And please don’t tell me you’re running with the runes that came with that dungeon armor. If you need a proper demonstration, I can hop on my mesmer and his phantasms will EAT YOU. Any damage I do is practically a bonus compared to them.

Oh yeah, and does everyone remember that trait lines give you stats? There’s 700 points of stats that won’t show up when you ask them to ping their armor. Did you want to audit that too? Why don’t you just put on a rubber glove and do a thorough exam and make sure everything’s in order.

By the time you analyze and approve your party’s armor, you could have already been halfway through that dungeon.

Fascinating. Of course I poll people and spend hours verifying gear instead of just not bothering and doing the dungeon. I also assume people have their traits to zero, so don’t count those either. Having 12 crafting schools mastered (yes, that means I’ve done some twice as I’m an altaholic) though means nothing – you can max out crafting without ever buying all the recipes, and even then not all stat combinations are available in the crafting schools (though this update looks like it has added PVT). Don’t quite see how that then ties to ascended jewelry – anyone can hop to a Laurel vendor and see every ascended jewelry combination.

So you’re saying that your stats don’t suck as you’re not using MF armors. Cool, thanks for agreeing with us – less MF gear = better stats. MF accessories also come with a pretty big loss – the only exception being “all stat”. All Stat accessories come with a little bit of everything and actually come out ahead in raw stats, so they’re one of the few that I don’t consider a real compromise even if they’re not necessarily the most efficient. Runes by far have the best MF gain to stat/utility loss you can get with Food being the second. You still can’t argue against the fact that you are still making a compromise at the cost of the party. We can crunch numbers and make assumptions all day, but that doesn’t change the fact that every stat you lower to increase the self-serving Magic Find affects your effectiveness. There is no need for personal attacks or kittening that your mesmer can kick my kitten – even if you did win, that only proves you’re more skilled, not that Magic Find increased your ability to kill me because you know it doesn’t.

Drawing Guy.3701:

So you’re saying that your stats don’t suck as you’re not using MF armors. Cool, thanks for agreeing with us – less MF gear = better stats. MF accessories also come with a pretty big loss – the only exception being “all stat”. All Stat accessories come with a little bit of everything and actually come out ahead in raw stats, so they’re one of the few that I don’t consider a real compromise even if they’re not necessarily the most efficient. Runes by far have the best MF gain to stat/utility loss you can get with Food being the second. You still can’t argue against the fact that you are still making a compromise at the cost of the party. We can crunch numbers and make assumptions all day, but that doesn’t change the fact that every stat you lower to increase the self-serving Magic Find affects your effectiveness. There is no need for personal attacks or kittening that your mesmer can kick my kitten – even if you did win, that only proves you’re more skilled, not that Magic Find increased your ability to kill me because you know it doesn’t.

We keep coming back to this again and again. Maybe we need to aproach it from another angle to give the Pro-MFers something to think about.
Yes you can still do dungeons in MF because you’re skilled. That’s great! But if you were not getting the ‘benifit’ of increased loot for wearing the sub par MF gear would you still be wearing it?
Let’s say hypotheticly MF didn’t exist in the game. Would you come to dungeon in sub bar gear (Say blues) just to show off that you could do it?
Hypotheticly, Maybe you would! But say during that dungeon an upgrade for your blue gear dropped. Would you then equip that upgrade or would you continue playing in your blue gear to show off your skills?
You’d equip the upgrade of course because there is no benifit for either you or the party for you to continue using that sub par equipment.
However with MF existing in the game there IS now a reason for you to be equiping sub par gear: So you can increase your own personal wealth.
THIS is the problem we have with MF and while I’m sure many would just love to see the stat completley removed from the game (I’d be fine with that) it’s a bit unfair to the players that want it to exist.
So we’ve proposed some middle ground to keep both parties happy. The Anti-MFers get the benifit of the MF as well, which should make them more accepting of the stat in a party, and the Pro-MFers get to keep running their MF gear in dungeons.
Everybody wins.

Drawing Guy.3701:

Fascinating. Of course I poll people and spend hours verifying gear instead of just not bothering and doing the dungeon. I also assume people have their traits to zero, so don’t count those either. Having 12 crafting schools mastered (yes, that means I’ve done some twice as I’m an altaholic) though means nothing – you can max out crafting without ever buying all the recipes, and even then not all stat combinations are available in the crafting schools (though this update looks like it has added PVT). Don’t quite see how that then ties to ascended jewelry – anyone can hop to a Laurel vendor and see every ascended jewelry combination.

So you’re saying that your stats don’t suck as you’re not using MF armors. Cool, thanks for agreeing with us – less MF gear = better stats. MF accessories also come with a pretty big loss – the only exception being “all stat”. All Stat accessories come with a little bit of everything and actually come out ahead in raw stats, so they’re one of the few that I don’t consider a real compromise even if they’re not necessarily the most efficient. Runes by far have the best MF gain to stat/utility loss you can get with Food being the second. You still can’t argue against the fact that you are still making a compromise at the cost of the party. We can crunch numbers and make assumptions all day, but that doesn’t change the fact that every stat you lower to increase the self-serving Magic Find affects your effectiveness. There is no need for personal attacks or kittening that your mesmer can kick my kitten – even if you did win, that only proves you’re more skilled, not that Magic Find increased your ability to kill me because you know it doesn’t.

Genuinely good response. I’m actually enjoying this discussion because I believe we are starting to understand each other a bit better. We actually do agree on several points. Let me point out those first to show our common ground:

It seems you’re defining “MF Armor” as armor that contains MF as one of its 3 basic stats. Excellent clarification, since that was not how I was defining “MF Armor”. I was using “MF Armor” to describe a set of armor pieces, runes, accessories, rings, upgrades, etc. that had MF as the ‘extra’ points in it as opposed to a second ‘Set’ by my definition. So, on my main, where I have two armor sets, it is really, ‘I have two sets of gear that both contain a large amount of power, precision, conditional damage, and a plentiful supply of toughness, healing, and vitality. They differ only in the remaining possible boosts: One has MF, one has additional survivability (toughness, vitality, healing power). I have dubbed them my ’MF set’ and my ‘Survivability set’. I clarify here because I agree with you:

1. The “MF Armor set” which is usually the ‘Explorer’ Armor is ALWAYS crap and a huge waste of stat potential, makes the character weaker regardless of player skill, and therefore will affect the party. AGREED. I made a large post about that in this forum in more detail. The stat loss of having MF there cannot be recouped by other means.

2. Though not explicit, I agree: Max out your crafting professions. You have done 12. Some may say that’s exccessive; I congratulate you. And, you are correct, even then, it makes some assumptions. You’ve implied heavily that you understand what is craftable and what is not. That’s exactly what I think a responsible player needs to know: The alternatives, the options, what they have at their disposal. —-- Opposed to someone who has a full set of a specific named armor or dungeon set (with default stats, skins are independent) and assumes they have good, exotic armor. They may have limited themselves to basically 3 stat boosts, have deficits everywhere else, and may have reached some diminishing returns in those stats. My other crafting profession push is that the jewelry and accessories you can craft are SO much superior to the vast majority of what you will pick up…. unless it is ascended. Ascended gear has better stats than you can craft.

3. If you are going to put some MF in your gear, do it with runes, infusions, food, and items with ‘bonus’ stats. Pirate runes are still wasting stat possibilities; they’re inexpensive for a reason.

I’m going to continue in a further post. This one may be getting a little long……

continued……

So, my points:

I run some gear with MF in runes when my survivability is not a issue – and by not an issue, I mean I stay up and can heal myself enough to do so without the aid of others. I’m not relying on others to make up for less hit points or toughness or healing. I put out the same damage OPPOSED to the normal gear I would be wearing that would give me more defensive stats.

I don’t run MF food because I don’t think it outweighs the benefits of running with regen food. Swapping those around and putting that amount of MF in my food will not allow me to put sufficient healing into my gear that would generate the same effect – by a long shot.

Now, about DPS (and the reference to my mesmer). My main is a ranger, and has been since launch. I say that because they have buffed pets recently, but the calculations I have been using were before this. As a ranger ( a non-trap ranger), a significant amount of my DPS comes from my pet. I point this out because the stats of my pet – and therefore its damage are INDEPENDENT of my own stats. They scale with my level, but not with my specific numbers. They ARE affected by my traits, and my signets. Why do I point this out? Because if I trait 10 points on my beastmastery line and select major trait #2, it didn’t give me +100 to power, precision, toughness, or vitality, but it gave +300 to ALL of my pet’s attributes if I have stayed up and kept my pet alive, not to mention the +250 to an attribute coming from my stacking sigils. I’m pulling more weight than you think I am. I don’t feel very selfish about the MF coming from my runes. Also, in my ranger playstyle, the most effective heal for myself is the ‘heal as one’ because of the amount, recharge, etc. It affects no other players. However, I can often be seen using my healing spring. It’s not for me — in fact, it puts me at a disadvantage. However, it greatly helps others in the group from its condition removal, regen, and water field combo. Other party members’ blast, leap, and whirl attacks benefit them greatly in the LONG time water field. I can do none of those finishers with the weapons I run with. If I didn’t care, I’d keep my basic heal on; it makes it a whole lot easier for me to stay alive. Is that selfish of me?

My mesmer: Similar scenario. I have a powerful phantasm build. They do most of the work, not to mention that my confusion lasts 53% longer. Phantasms DO base their power and precision off of my own stats, but not their toughness or vitality. They have retaliation, fury, and 70% more health. So, again, if my toughness and vitality are not an issue, is some MF selfish? Also, all of my phantasms generate AOE regen— but wait, why would I do that since my phantasms are almost ALWAYS too far from me to grant ME regen? Oh yes, it’s all the melee fighters in the group who are benefiting from the constant regen. Oh, and being a mesmer, I usually don’t benefit from my own portal to get others through a rough spot because I still had to get through of my own accord.

The point? Do I get labelled as ‘selfish’ by the witchhunt because I have some MF, and am CLEARLY a non-team player?

Elusive.9481:

continued……

So, my points:

I run some gear with MF in runes when my survivability is not a issue – and by not an issue, I mean I stay up and can heal myself enough to do so without the aid of others. I’m not relying on others to make up for less hit points or toughness or healing. I put out the same damage OPPOSED to the normal gear I would be wearing that would give me more defensive stats.

I don’t run MF food because I don’t think it outweighs the benefits of running with regen food. Swapping those around and putting that amount of MF in my food will not allow me to put sufficient healing into my gear that would generate the same effect – by a long shot.

Now, about DPS (and the reference to my mesmer). My main is a ranger, and has been since launch. I say that because they have buffed pets recently, but the calculations I have been using were before this. As a ranger ( a non-trap ranger), a significant amount of my DPS comes from my pet. I point this out because the stats of my pet – and therefore its damage are INDEPENDENT of my own stats. They scale with my level, but not with my specific numbers. They ARE affected by my traits, and my signets. Why do I point this out? Because if I trait 10 points on my beastmastery line and select major trait #2, it didn’t give me +100 to power, precision, toughness, or vitality, but it gave +300 to ALL of my pet’s attributes if I have stayed up and kept my pet alive, not to mention the +250 to an attribute coming from my stacking sigils. I’m pulling more weight than you think I am. I don’t feel very selfish about the MF coming from my runes. Also, in my ranger playstyle, the most effective heal for myself is the ‘heal as one’ because of the amount, recharge, etc. It affects no other players. However, I can often be seen using my healing spring. It’s not for me — in fact, it puts me at a disadvantage. However, it greatly helps others in the group from its condition removal, regen, and water field combo. Other party members’ blast, leap, and whirl attacks benefit them greatly in the LONG time water field. I can do none of those finishers with the weapons I run with. If I didn’t care, I’d keep my basic heal on; it makes it a whole lot easier for me to stay alive. Is that selfish of me?

My mesmer: Similar scenario. I have a powerful phantasm build. They do most of the work, not to mention that my confusion lasts 53% longer. Phantasms DO base their power and precision off of my own stats, but not their toughness or vitality. They have retaliation, fury, and 70% more health. So, again, if my toughness and vitality are not an issue, is some MF selfish? Also, all of my phantasms generate AOE regen— but wait, why would I do that since my phantasms are almost ALWAYS too far from me to grant ME regen? Oh yes, it’s all the melee fighters in the group who are benefiting from the constant regen. Oh, and being a mesmer, I usually don’t benefit from my own portal to get others through a rough spot because I still had to get through of my own accord.

The point? Do I get labelled as ‘selfish’ by the witchhunt because I have some MF, and am CLEARLY a non-team player?

I certinaly cannot argue that you are not taking your team into consideration and you are most defintly the “lesser of two evils” in this particular arguement.
You’re certinally showing more thought towards your fellow players then your average MF user and for that you do have my thanks and apreciation.
However you still must realise in both of these situations you are still handicapping both your survival and damage output (Although not as much as some builds.)
For both the ranger and the mesmer, yes your pets and clones are doing a lot of the work but you’re still contributuing on top of this. Also don’t forget that to have MF on gear you are giving up the Major stat increase, not the minor one. So it’s going to be a decent amount of potential lost reguardless of which combination is used.

Your post also highlights the fact that if you were not reciving a benefit from the MF stat you wouldn’t be handicapping yourself, even if you’ve done it in a very efficent way.

I’ll say it again in case it got lost in the negativity there but it’s great to see you are taking the parties needs into consideration while running MF and the way you have set up your gear would work PERFECTLY with the proposed solution with a MF cap in place. Many players running builds/gear hybrided like this would be much more effective then a single full MF user being carried along by four others.

Thanks again for the post, and I’m enjoying the discussion as well.

Somone just pointed out to me the most amazing thing in reguards to discusion of MF in Guild Wars 2. It really does bring new light on the phrase “A Picture is worth 1,000 words!” A big thanks to Tony.6028 for taking the time to make this. Please have A look at THIS before making a post: https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/69590/Magic_Find_Flow_Chart.png

I just finished my MF gear, and I’m not exactly rich…

I’m willing to have it all become useless if that is the price for this bullkitten mechanic to go away. As long as it exists I will continue to use it but it doesn’t really contribute to the game in any way…

Who thought it was a good idea to make loot modifiers? Loot rates should be set and affected by nothing other than DR, and that is only if you can make a DR system that works, current one forces me to play like an imbecile if I don’t want to hit the DR in like 15 minutes.

I bet a stable loot rate would also make rates easier to balance.

Heh, I wasn’t expecting my response to the Top 10 video to be displayed so prominently in a youtube video…

I like the idea of a shared MF, especially since MF’s effects on drop rate are fairly abysmal anyways (the massive +200% MF at southsun proved that to me), so a group getting together to pump it up to a collective 1000% would actually start to make a noticeable difference to the drop rate of exotics. Of course, the implementation of bonus chests from world bosses have devalued rares and exotics, so the benefit of MF has gone down with it. I would expect the increased MF from sharing would ironically lower the value of MF further. And ultimately it wouldn’t change anything, it would just make zerging around cursed shore more efficient. The zerkers will still only want other zerkers. The slowdown wouldn’t be worth the increased rate of loot drops to them.

I am never without my MF gear for the most part, because party members aside (I tend to only do dungeons if guildmates feel like it) I am choosing between cheating MYSELF out of better rewards or better stats. Like Cristobal above me said, I don’t know who thought it was a good idea, but I will be using it as long as it exists.

Am I greedy? Well, when almost all my yet to be achievements require inordinate amounts of gold, greed is all pervasive, the veritable background hum in the game. If I am to make the most of my limited time, (which is usually limited to dailies because I need all the freaking laurels I can get to equip all of my characters) I need to feel like I am getting as much coin as I can out of the experience.

Considering there are at least a hundred viable combinations of 1 Major and 2 minor stats without MF (someone else can find the exact number), there are probably some excellent combinations that could replace MF without people’s investment into the gear feeling like a waste. The thing about claiming a game is about skill over stats is that the stats would actually have to be even. Removing MF would help make the game a matter of constructing a better build, and not just me choosing whether I perform suboptimally in combat or in profits.

The Talcmaster.7391:

Heh, I wasn’t expecting my response to the Top 10 video to be displayed so prominently in a youtube video…

I like the idea of a shared MF, especially since MF’s effects on drop rate are fairly abysmal anyways (the massive +200% MF at southsun proved that to me), so a group getting together to pump it up to a collective 1000% would actually start to make a noticeable difference to the drop rate of exotics. Of course, the implementation of bonus chests from world bosses have devalued rares and exotics, so the benefit of MF has gone down with it. I would expect the increased MF from sharing would ironically lower the value of MF further. And ultimately it wouldn’t change anything, it would just make zerging around cursed shore more efficient. The zerkers will still only want other zerkers. The slowdown wouldn’t be worth the increased rate of loot drops to them.

I am never without my MF gear for the most part, because party members aside (I tend to only do dungeons if guildmates feel like it) I am choosing between cheating MYSELF out of better rewards or better stats. Like Cristobal above me said, I don’t know who thought it was a good idea, but I will be using it as long as it exists.

Am I greedy? Well, when almost all my yet to be achievements require inordinate amounts of gold, greed is all pervasive, the veritable background hum in the game. If I am to make the most of my limited time, (which is usually limited to dailies because I need all the freaking laurels I can get to equip all of my characters) I need to feel like I am getting as much coin as I can out of the experience.

Considering there are at least a hundred viable combinations of 1 Major and 2 minor stats without MF (someone else can find the exact number), there are probably some excellent combinations that could replace MF without people’s investment into the gear feeling like a waste. The thing about claiming a game is about skill over stats is that the stats would actually have to be even. Removing MF would help make the game a matter of constructing a better build, and not just me choosing whether I perform suboptimally in combat or in profits.

kitten Talcmaster, I’m sorry I missed your post here for so long. One of the reasons i encourage feedback and comments is it helps think of new ideas, both for GW2 and for videos to make.

Since greed IS built into the very fabric of GW2 considering the cost of desrible items as you described just having MF in its current state is a bad idea in my books. And the value of stats having to be even is right on the money and is currently featuring largley in the Trinity Debate discussion.
Thanks again for the feedback and thoughts, especially considering the honesty of them. Let’s hop Anet managed to see what I missed.

First of all…
Same discussion
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Magic-Find-What-I-don-t-like/page/1

Second of all…
I do not use MF gear, never have.

Now..
Sharing a MF among the party is bad idea. I see the point you make when you say that other stats benefits the party even though they are not shared. But please realize that apart from MF the player also have other stats like power and vitality etc.

Lets compare the two closest gears. Zerker and explorer. For it to be easier I will use just stats from chest piece.

Zerker Power 101 Prec 72 Crit 5 MF 0
Explorer Power 72 Prec 72 Crit 0 MF 3

Now see that zerker is just x percent more effective in combat than explorer and yet you want the explorer to share 100% of his stat. If you want MF to be shared, and again that is terrible idea, than you would have to calculate the percentage of gear stats effectiveness of player A to player B and than add the percentage of MF to player without it. So, for example, of 100% of MF you would get 20%. The MF guy would have his 100% of course.

Also…
People are saying that FM guy gets better drops. That is incorrect statement. He just have better chance to get the same drops as you. All the players have the same loot tables. He doesn´t get better drops than you, he just gets them more often.

Also..
MF stats doesn´t benefit the party but it does benefit you. In fact, it benefits everyone. See the more drops he gets the cheaper the TP prices will be. The more rares he gets the more ectos he can salvage the cheaper the prices will be if he sells it. Be glad there are people with MF if you need ectos or anything for that matter. Without them and farmers the prices would be insane due to selfish nature of people to sell things as expensive as possible.

The last sentense makes me think. Have you OP or anyone arguing about MF leacher being selfish, sold something cheaper for actually small to no profit? Like some rare sword sold for 3 silver instead of 25 silver others are seling it for? If not, you are selfish and you want profit rather than helping others. Hypocrites. You argue that MF is selfish yet you are selfish in other areas which in your own mindset is OK. (Giving or selling to your frinds and guildies does not count)

Pointy.9308:

First of all…
Same discussion
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Magic-Find-What-I-don-t-like/page/1

Second of all…
I do not use MF gear, never have.

Now..
Sharing a MF among the party is bad idea. I see the point you make when you say that other stats benefits the party even though they are not shared. But please realize that apart from MF the player also have other stats like power and vitality etc.

Lets compare the two closest gears. Zerker and explorer. For it to be easier I will use just stats from chest piece.

Zerker Power 101 Prec 72 Crit 5 MF 0
Explorer Power 72 Prec 72 Crit 0 MF 3

Now see that zerker is just x percent more effective in combat than explorer and yet you want the explorer to share 100% of his stat. If you want MF to be shared, and again that is terrible idea, than you would have to calculate the percentage of gear stats effectiveness of player A to player B and than add the percentage of MF to player without it. So, for example, of 100% of MF you would get 20%. The MF guy would have his 100% of course.

Also…
People are saying that FM guy gets better drops. That is incorrect statement. He just have better chance to get the same drops as you. All the players have the same loot tables. He doesn´t get better drops than you, he just gets them more often.

Also..
MF stats doesn´t benefit the party but it does benefit you. In fact, it benefits everyone. See the more drops he gets the cheaper the TP prices will be. The more rares he gets the more ectos he can salvage the cheaper the prices will be if he sells it. Be glad there are people with MF if you need ectos or anything for that matter. Without them and farmers the prices would be insane due to selfish nature of people to sell things as expensive as possible.

The last sentense makes me think. Have you OP or anyone arguing about MF leacher being selfish, sold something cheaper for actually small to no profit? Like some rare sword sold for 3 silver instead of 25 silver others are seling it for? If not, you are selfish and you want profit rather than helping others. Hypocrites. You argue that MF is selfish yet you are selfish in other areas which in your own mindset is OK. (Giving or selling to your frinds and guildies does not count)

I’ve gone over all of these points already except for your final two. And seeing as that is just you trying to strawman this thread I’m just going to ignore it. :P

I’ve gone over all of these points already except for your final two. And seeing as that is just you trying to strawman this thread I’m just going to ignore it. :P

I had to google what “to strawman” means and after reading about it I have to say I didn´t do that. I certainly didn´t do it on purpose. It looks like you didn´t want to answer my question and decide to strawman me instead by saying I am strawmaning.

See I didn´t argue with you about MF, I actually said that I understand your point of view and that you are right to certain extent. I merely expressed that I do not like it to be shared among the party and than I pointed out that it actually benefits everyone in a long run. I just expressed my opinion.

Than I pointed out that you choose to be selfish in other areas where you think it is OK. You are selfish but that is OK, someone else is selfish so he is a kitten (I actually wrote “kitten”). And than you ignored me because you didn´t want to answer. My last question have nothing to do with MF and its sharing, it was a question to test your selfishness and hypocrisy and you proved me right by ignoring it.

Pointy.9308:

I’ve gone over all of these points already except for your final two. And seeing as that is just you trying to strawman this thread I’m just going to ignore it. :P

I had to google what “to strawman” means and after reading about it I have to say I didn´t do that. I certainly didn´t do it on purpose. It looks like you didn´t want to answer my question and decide to strawman me instead by saying I am strawmaning.

See I didn´t argue with you about MF, I actually said that I understand your point of view and that you are right to certain extent. I merely expressed that I do not like it to be shared among the party and than I pointed out that it actually benefits everyone in a long run. I just expressed my opinion.

Than I pointed out that you choose to be selfish in other areas where you think it is OK. You are selfish but that is OK, someone else is selfish so he is a kitten (I actually wrote “kitten”). And than you ignored me because you didn´t want to answer. My last question have nothing to do with MF and its sharing, it was a question to test your selfishness and hypocrisy and you proved me right by ignoring it.

If you actually did look up what strawman means then how can you, in all honesty, claim that you have not done just that with this arguement.
You are saying that MF is fine in groups becuase all players are selfish in some reguard. Do I really need to explain more on why this is no basis for an arguement?
And saying that a player getting more loot for himself benifits the group because that will make items more avalible on the trading post?
Try looking up supply and demand or inflation this time.

If you actually did look up what strawman means then how can you, in all honesty, claim that you have not done just that with this arguement.

I never claimed that my next argument would not be strawman. I said my previous wasn´t or at least wasn´t on purpose.

You are saying that MF is fine in groups becuase all players are selfish in some reguard. Do I really need to explain more on why this is no basis for an arguement?

I am prety sure I never said that. I said that you are hypocrite.

And saying that a player getting more loot for himself benifits the group because that will make items more avalible on the trading post?
Try looking up supply and demand or inflation this time.

I am prety sure I never said that either. I said in my first post here that MF and the drops a guy gets doesn`t benefit the group yet it benefits everyone. And I add “In long run” in my second post. And by everyone I mean those who buy on TP.

Why do you twist my words and keep insisting that I said something I didn´t?
And why are you still ignoring my question? Even though the answer is obeviously 0, right?

Pointy.9308:

If you actually did look up what strawman means then how can you, in all honesty, claim that you have not done just that with this arguement.

I never claimed that my next argument would not be strawman. I said my previous wasn´t or at least wasn´t on purpose.

I was also refering to your previous argument.

You are saying that MF is fine in groups becuase all players are selfish in some reguard. Do I really need to explain more on why this is no basis for an arguement?

I am prety sure I never said that. I said that you are hypocrite.

And saying that a player getting more loot for himself benifits the group because that will make items more avalible on the trading post?
Try looking up supply and demand or inflation this time.

I am prety sure I never said that either. I said in my first post here that MF and the drops a guy gets doesn`t benefit the group yet it benefits everyone. And I add “In long run” in my second post. And by everyone I mean those who buy on TP.

Why do you twist my words and keep insisting that I said something I didn´t?
And why are you still ignoring my question? Even though the answer is obeviously 0, right?[/quote]

I’m hardly twisting your words by any stretch.
I’ve gone over this in detail before but that’s burried away in posts so lets’s go over it all again.

The problem with MF is that is ONLY benifits the player running it. You can say how player skill is more important than gear, and I would certinly agree with you on this, but a skiled player running normal gear IS (statisiticly) going to benifit his team more then a skilled player in regular gear.
Comparing MF to non-zerker gear is not a good comaparison. A player running Apocracerys might be doing less dmg, but they’ll be offering more healing.
Same could be said for a player running soildeirs. Less dmg, but capable of taking more hits. (Which if he died, might be hits directed at you)
However a player running MF is offering nothing else to his group in place of the stats lost.
I stand my stance that players running MF are being selfish by putting their needs above the group.

People using MF to benifit themselves at their teams expense only highlights my problems with the way MF is atm. I don’t want MF removed, I just want the way it works in group play to altered so it’s fairer to the team. There have been some great ideas put foward on how to fix this.

Clarification: “I do not want to run with someone who will penalise himself, and therefore his group, just to increase his own gain.” Spin this arguement any way you want that point is not going to change.
I’m not asking players to get another set. I’m asking them to not run with me while using a MF set.
Players running MF in groups ARE being selfish. There’s no other way to spin it.
“I’m a great player so I can run in sub par MF gear that makes me less of an asset to the the team so I deserve better rewards.”
Or “I don’t know these people so it’s okay for me to limit my performance to benfit myself. What they don’t know won’t hurt them”
Real team spirit right there. I’m sure that’s exactly what anet had in mind when making MF gear.
Lastly, Check the Image link in the OP, it sums up where this conversation is going.

There was no need to write it again because I already said I agree with you that MF doesn´t benefit the party. It was in my first post. I disagreed with you in the part where you wanted to share it with the party. There is plenty of good solutions to this, my favorite being the one where MF is a buff you get from world completion. Your percentage of world completion = you MF buff. This would actually fit the terms explorer and traveler. The more you have explored the better chance you get to gain items. But than again MF should be something you trade it in for something else.

In here I only compared MF to zerker and not to other armor because these two share power and prec and both have no condition or other stat like rampager.

I wrote this in the other tread…
MF users are not inheritly selfish. Not all of em. They didn´t decide that they are going to leech of you. They decide that they are going to play as well as possible in gear they chosed to play with because the gear fits their sub-goals. (The main goal is to finish the dungeon)

What is your goal in dungeon? To finish it and get the chest reward, exp and tokens? Than MF user is not going against you, he is actually helping you to achieve this because it is his goal as well.

Or is your goal to finish the dungeon as fast as possible? If so than you should state it in LFG and at that moment if MF users joins your group and lies about his stats he is selfish. But not any sooner. And in this case a vit/tough guy is selfish as well even though he has the same amount of viable stats as you.

“I’m a great player so I can run in sub par MF gear that makes me less of an asset to the the team so I deserve better rewards.”

“I don’t know these people so it’s okay for me to limit my performance to benfit myself. What they don’t know won’t hurt them”

This is so wrong…you realy think that 100% of all MF users are like this? I would say that absolute minimum of them are. And yes these people are selfish but you can not judged all of them the same way. That is being biased.

You should see it from other points of view as well. A performance in dungeon can not be judged only by stats. Statisticaly yes, he is weaker yet he could be the best player you have ever seen. That of course doesn´t justify MF gear and I am not sayin it does. It is just that Performance=stats+skill where skill=stats or even skill>stats.

I saw the image while reading through the previous MF tread and you are right about it. But I didn´t want it to go there, I just wanted an answer to my question about you being selfish as well because, again, I actually agreed with you to some extent in your opinion.

So to sumarise my point of view.
MF is not a combat stat.
MF doesn´t help the party.
MF does help peolpe and not only the ones who wears it.
MF users are not inheritly selfish.
MF users can outperform those with more viable stats though statisticaly are weaker.
MF buff could be improved and/or changed.
MF doesn´t give you better drops, it just gives you chance to get them.
Everyone has his goals and MF helps to achieve these goals.
People claiming that MF users are selfish are hypocrites for they are selfish as well.
Same thing applies to those in PvP yeling at people for not going 1v1 yet they themselves goes 2 or more V 1 with no regrets.
Skill>stats
I do not mind people wearing MF stats as far as they are not burden to the party. And at that point it is not because of their stats.

I have yet to see your video for I did not have the time to watch it yesterday. I intend to do so this afternoon. Im getting new monitor this afternoon as well so it should be in bright colours. My old one is soon to get to the Silicon Heaven.

First up thanks for that pos pointy, I always enjoy a long well written post.

“MF does help peolpe and not only the ones who wears it.”
“People claiming that MF users are selfish are hypocrites for they are selfish as well.”

There is truth in all of your summary except this Pointy and since that’s the question you want answered I’ll get on with it.

Kaaboose.3897:

We keep coming back to this again and again. Maybe we need to aproach it from another angle to give the Pro-MFers something to think about.
Yes you can still do dungeons in MF because you’re skilled. That’s great! But if you were not getting the ‘benifit’ of increased loot for wearing the sub par MF gear would you still be wearing it?
Let’s say hypotheticly MF didn’t exist in the game. Would you come to dungeon in sub bar gear (Say blues) just to show off that you could do it?
Hypotheticly, Maybe you would! But say during that dungeon an upgrade for your blue gear dropped. Would you then equip that upgrade or would you continue playing in your blue gear to show off your skills?
You’d equip the upgrade of course because there is no benifit for either you or the party for you to continue using that sub par equipment.
However with MF existing in the game there IS now a reason for you to be equiping sub par gear: So you can increase your own personal wealth.
THIS is the problem we have with MF and while I’m sure many would just love to see the stat completley removed from the game (I’d be fine with that) it’s a bit unfair to the players that want it to exist.
So we’ve proposed some middle ground to keep both parties happy. The Anti-MFers get the benifit of the MF as well, which should make them more accepting of the stat in a party, and the Pro-MFers get to keep running their MF gear in dungeons.
Everybody wins.

That’s a post from eariler in this thread so don’t think I’m saying you’re Pro-MF, It’s just that is sums up my problems with MF quite well and why I belive it is a selfish stat.

I just don’t understand how you can believe players that don’t want to run with MF players are selfish.
What’s selfish about wanting an even playing field? Why are they selfish because they don’t want to run with players handicaping themselves so they can (theoretically) have better rewards?
I figured all this was common sense and didn’t need an explination which is why I made the strawman comment in the first place.

Thanks, I appreciate when someone appreciates me.

See, what I had on my mind was…a guy finds something and he decidess to sell it for 10G and another guy finds the same thing and decidess to sell it for 9G and so on. In the end from that 10G it drops down to 50 silver and sudenly it is afordable. And MF users helps with this alot. Without them and farmers the prices would be insane. That is what I mean by MF is helping others.

Yes you can still do dungeons in MF because you’re skilled. That’s great! But if you were not getting the ‘benifit’ of increased loot for wearing the sub par MF gear would you still be wearing it? Let’s say hypotheticly MF didn’t exist in the game. Would you come to dungeon in sub bar gear (Say blues) just to show off that you could do it?

Some would because they are show offs and therefore kittens and some would do it because it is challenging. But most of the people wouldn´t bring sub-par equipment because it is nonsense to limit yourself. Yet if you think about it, MF equipment isn´t sub-par. Combat wise yes but MF is a stat like power or vitality therefore it is more effective in a way other stats are not. And again, not for combat, I know that.

There is a lot of killing in this game but there is also drop and the posibility to sell and trade and MF helps with it so it is valid stat for the game or at least for this part of the game.

I just don’t understand how you can believe players that don’t want to run with MF players are selfish.

I didn´t say that they are selfish (Although there can be some discussion about this but lets not go there). I said that they are hypocrites because they are selfish in other aspect of the game but they do not think they are hence my question about selling a rare sword for 3 silver instead for 25 to help other people get what they want/need without you profiting on it. And there are other examples.

I watched your video yesterday evening. I didn´t have time and I was about to go for my daily dose of pool practice but I remembered I wanted to watch it so I did before I left. And there was something rather interesting in it. You say that you do not mind MF being in the game yet you do not want to run with its users in dungeon because they handicap themselves combat wise for profit and that they are working against the group, that everybody has to overcome the handicap. And you proceed to talk about some sugestions people have and so on. There you actually say that sharing MF would null the issues you have with MF. Which is interesting. You wouldn´t mind running a dungeon if MF was shared? Even though the person would be exactly the same? Stat and skill wise MF user is the same and he is still handicaping the party yet you would excuse this for the possible profit for you and the party. You do not mind the handicap as far as you profit on it?

We shouldn´t really get into this discussion about selfishness. this is suggestion forum and I should have posted some so I would like to expand the idea I read in the other MF tread.You would get MF as a buff and it would be the same percentage of you world completition which would fit explorer, traveler. Yet MF should be traded in for something. So you could actually buy it for gold straight from your hero panel. 1% of MF for 1s. So upto 100% for 1G. It would be buff for one hour. And you could actually choose the percentage the same way you select how many items you want to craft. So you could get 50% even when you have 95% of completion. I am not against changing MF, I just don´t like it to be shared and one of the reasons for it is that everybody should be responsible for their own MF. And boosters and food would work the same way as now ofcourse.

Pointy.9308:

SNIP too long!

I watched your video yesterday evening. I didn´t have time and I was about to go for my daily dose of pool practice but I remembered I wanted to watch it so I did before I left. And there was something rather interesting in it. You say that you do not mind MF being in the game yet you do not want to run with its users in dungeon because they handicap themselves combat wise for profit and that they are working against the group, that everybody has to overcome the handicap. And you proceed to talk about some sugestions people have and so on. There you actually say that sharing MF would null the issues you have with MF. Which is interesting. You wouldn´t mind running a dungeon if MF was shared? Even though the person would be exactly the same? Stat and skill wise MF user is the same and he is still handicaping the party yet you would excuse this for the possible profit for you and the party. You do not mind the handicap as far as you profit on it?

We shouldn´t really get into this discussion about selfishness. this is suggestion forum and I should have posted some so I would like to expand the idea I read in the other MF tread.You would get MF as a buff and it would be the same percentage of you world completition which would fit explorer, traveler. Yet MF should be traded in for something. So you could actually buy it for gold straight from your hero panel. 1% of MF for 1s. So upto 100% for 1G. It would be buff for one hour. And you could actually choose the percentage the same way you select how many items you want to craft. So you could get 50% even when you have 95% of completion. I am not against changing MF, I just don´t like it to be shared and one of the reasons for it is that everybody should be responsible for their own MF. And boosters and food would work the same way as now ofcourse.

Ah! I see! Okay I’ll state myself more clearly.
My orginal solution fir MF was to allow an inspect function. Now it was pointed out to me that this would be a bad idea as it would not spot at MF and people would be excluded for not bringing ‘meta’ gear such as zerkers, so I threw that idea out the window.
My other idea was to allow you MF to be displayed as a “buff” on your character so everyone could see it and ask for you not to use it if they wern’t okay with it which I liked but that might make MF gear useless in groups (which is fine by me) so I decided to go for the middle ground of sharing MF.
Personally I’d rather not run with any MF in a dungeon, But if the groups MF was shared and displayed as a group buff it removes the selfish aspect of MF stats and brings them more in line with the other stats. That is, they can and should, provide benifit to the group. The MF player gets to play with the gear they like (assuming the rest of the team is okay with it, and if they’re not they can ask whoever is running the MF to change) and instead of being despised by players they will be welcomed. It’s just my solution to making MF a socially acceptable stat over a ‘selfish’ one.’
If the player running MF gear was doing so with trinkets or duplicate Transmogrified armour the others would never even know who was running it when he changed gear, but I don’t think MFers would be considered selfish any more if their MF benifted everyone anyway so I doubt that will even become a scenario.

MF being bought as a Mod to armour or earned in other ways is something I like but it comes with a problem.
First (well not for ur world compeltion) it difficult and time consuming to impliment and second what happens to all thoese people that spent gold on MF sets?

And cheers for getting away from the ethics debate

I wrote couple of lines about how it could be done and than I had an idea to combine those ideas. MF gear would automaticaly change to knight armor becasue it shares power and prec as minors therefore there would be no change in damage whatsoever and the person would get free toughness as mayor. You would also get in your mail free MF booster and free black lion salvage kit. Those who uses MF equip only gets new set, free boost and free BLSK. Those who run other spec and MF equip would get this as well. They could sell it or use the BLSK to get ectos out of it. The first group would not mind because they get piece for piece. The progblem is the second group as they do not need another “regular” set and by selling it or salvaging it they would loose the free BLSK. Also this kit would have to be able to salvage ascended quipment, perhaps with a chance to get mist essence. Fractal capacitator is special case as it costs 2x 250 ectos to get it upgraded but than you do not need to get it upgraded with ectos to get the slot for MF find. So simple change to knight stats should be enough. Also, one BLSK should be enough as most people uses just one character with full MF. Number of MF boosters could vary. Perhaps there could be another bonus for those with two sets. And this would not get abused since the game has a way to recognise different equip. You scan a character see he has 1 set of zerker in inventory and 1 set of MF on him, or the other way around. Also stacking MF gear after announcment for free booster and BLSK would not be profitable since you do not need two sets for one character and the game/code would recognise it. So I think that there is only one problem – how to compensate those with two sets. Also if someone runs more than one character with MF he could get more BLSKs and boosters.
.
.
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I think that inspect feature could work when proper LFG system is introduced. In LFG people could state that they are looking for fast runs zerkers only. A guy joins their group, they check his armor he has currently equiped and then proceed to kick him or go to the dungeon with him. While in dungeon, if something feels odd they can inspect this guy while he is in combat because at this point he can´t change his equipment. Unless such a specific LFG is set up a guy can wear whatever gear he chooses to. And this would work even with the MF in current state. Just say you do not want MF in party and than in dungeon in combat check his gear again. Check it randomly throughout the dungeon. Did he switch his gear while fighting the last boss? Kick him and he will remember it. Inspect could be brought in with LFG system.

Ohh, and I forgot…MF runes and sigils could stay in the game.

The idea of removing magic find and compensating people is… not good. What if I own some magic find runes but my armour has proper stats? What if only half my gear is magic find? What about all the magic find food? And what if I already have a knight’s set AND a magic find set?
Magic find is here to stay – it just needs a fix. Making it a visible buff that affects your entire party is perfect.

If it was made so that each individual in the party got an mf bonus equal to the sum of all party members mf / number of party members then it would be a fair way to balance out a single person running mf gear (since their own mf% would decrease while their party members rose). This would avoid the obviously exploitable situation where everyone runs mf gear in an easy dungeon for 800% mf bonus or something equally ridiculous.

Mist Y.5214:

The idea of removing magic find and compensating people is… not good. What if I own some magic find runes but my armour has proper stats? What if only half my gear is magic find? What about all the magic find food? And what if I already have a knight’s set AND a magic find set?
Magic find is here to stay – it just needs a fix. Making it a visible buff that affects your entire party is perfect.

Well, I wrote that MF runes and sigils can stay in the game just the post before yours. Banners created by guilds, food and MF boosters can stay too. If just half of your gear is MF than half of your gera gets changed. I wrote the entire sets but I ment even single pieces. The MF booster and BLSK would be the compensation. And like I wrote the only problem about it would be the people that runs two sets, there would be some other compensation as well. MF stays yes but sharing it with your party is not a good fix.

I wrote most of it before you posted your questions.

Your magic find % appears as a buff, and provides it’s bonus to the entire party (divided by the number of players present).

I strongly support this.

Webba.3071:

If it was made so that each individual in the party got an mf bonus equal to the sum of all party members mf / number of party members then it would be a fair way to balance out a single person running mf gear (since their own mf% would decrease while their party members rose). This would avoid the obviously exploitable situation where everyone runs mf gear in an easy dungeon for 800% mf bonus or something equally ridiculous.

A cap on total MF in dungeons is all that’s needed to remedy that problem IMO. Pretty sure I went over that already but just in case here goes again.

The reason I’d go for a flat cap on MF in groups would be so groups had the option of taking one player fully decked out in MF gear or spreading the stat penalty across several characters. Assuming a group wants to run in MF in the first place that is.