Guild Wars 2

Since my previous post was apparently deleted by a moderator.

Give me a way to flag myself as not a PvP’er so I don’t get killed by other players over and over and over while trying to explore or do jump puzzles in WvWvW. I don’t care about the blueprints or the badges or about getting a legendary. If the only reward for finishing map exploration was a star next to my name, I’d be perfectly happy with that.

I spent the morning trying to finish the Eternal Borderlands jump puzzle only to have Jade Quarry players attack me repeatedly with no provocation on my part. I left myself unarmored and unarmed except for my medkit and flamethrower (for the unlit area). I even tried to wave or bow to let them know I’m not there to fight. Did that help. No, they just kept killing me everytime I went in. For me, this is just griefing. I’m not there to attack them, I wish they would respectfully do the same for me.

gbeermang.2895:

Did that help. No, they just kept killing me everytime I went in. For me, this is just griefing. I’m not there to attack them, I wish they would respectfully do the same for me.

I am sorry to say this but you are offering yourself as a sacrifice and free loot/badges of honor.
The flagging system will cause nothing but problems
1. Entire zergs can mask themselves as unflagged
2. Opponents with alts on their enemies servers will be able to spy in broad daylight without any fear of death

For the love of the Six, please do not bring up the topic of the PvE version of WvWvW maps.

I read your previous post; it was clearly explained why its an issue. Don’t keep making posts hoping to see an answer you like. Its exploitable on many angles; you are one player in a mass of hundreds. This shouldn’t be added to the game just because it would make it easier for you; it would ruin everyone elses’ WvWvW play.

Kodesh.2019:

For the love of the Six, please do not bring up the topic of the PvE version of WvWvW maps.

Err, why not? It’s a perfectly reasonable suggestion. PvE versions of the maps, with PvE content, and no PvP rewards (badges, blueprints) have at least three benefits:

• PvE completionists no longer use up a WvWvW slot;
• no essentially permanently inaccessible POIs;
• JP enthusiasts can enjoy themselves.

No Gift of Battle would be achievable; likewise there would also be no particular reason to award the Gift of Exploration since both are only used in the construction of a Legendary.

It would also not change any of the existing WvWvW mechanics and would not spoil the PvP game.

xCrusadentx.2784:

I read your previous post; it was clearly explained why its an issue. Don’t keep making posts hoping to see an answer you like. Its exploitable on many angles; you are one player in a mass of hundreds. This shouldn’t be added to the game just because it would make it easier for you; it would ruin everyone elses’ WvWvW play.

The only thing I asked for is to allow those of us who don’t like to PvP to finish our exploration or jump puzzles in peace. If I just walk past and don’t attack another player, I would hope they extend me that courtesy also by not attacking me. I just want to be left alone to finish those achievements. I don’t care about the blueprints or the badges. I just destroy those anyway since they take up inventory space. I also don’t like taking a spot for someone that wants to PvP but has to wait because I just want to finish what amount to PvE achievements.

Besides how am I ruining someone else’s WvWvW play. There are plenty of PvP players attacking each other. Can’t those of us who just like PvE be left alone in these zones?

gbeermang.2895:

xCrusadentx.2784:

I read your previous post; it was clearly explained why its an issue. Don’t keep making posts hoping to see an answer you like. Its exploitable on many angles; you are one player in a mass of hundreds. This shouldn’t be added to the game just because it would make it easier for you; it would ruin everyone elses’ WvWvW play.

The only thing I asked for is to allow those of us who don’t like to PvP to finish our exploration or jump puzzles in peace. If I just walk past and don’t attack another player, I would hope they extend me that courtesy also by not attacking me. I just want to be left alone to finish those achievements. I don’t care about the blueprints or the badges. I just destroy those anyway since they take up inventory space. I also don’t like taking a spot for someone that wants to PvP but has to wait because I just want to finish what amount to PvE achievements.

Besides how am I ruining someone else’s WvWvW play. There are plenty of PvP players attacking each other. Can’t those of us who just like PvE be left alone in these zones?

It doesn’t work like that though. WvWvW is a warzone, if you walk into it you are a target, and there is no way around it. You’re asking to allow players to disable PvP in a PvP map, which makes no sense. I’m sorry, but you’ll have to deal with it. Those maps are not meant for pure exploration and scenery, they’re a place for battle. You earn the right to explore the parts of the maps you need when you help to conquer those towers, keeps, etc. It causes issues for pure WvWvWers when a zerg turns on the flag, turns it off, and can storm a keep. Your flagging idea is broken, no other way around it. I’ve seen this suggestion before and others agree with me. You’ll have to put up with it. You’re better off arguing the case for a PvE instance.

Then I agree with you – no Gift of Exploration should be rewarded.
The reason for this is that Badges can be attained by luck and jumping puzzles alone. As stated in another topic I am in tier 1 apparenly so is gbeermang.2895, as he is complaining about JQ, and I can assure you I have done the JP numerous times without any enemy contact.
Which means if the Gift of Exploration can be earned without doing WvW then you can eliminate all PvP requirements with luck of getting into the JPs at the right times.. (speaking of luck -Mystic forge – precursor drops – T6 mat farming)
Removing PvP requirements from attaining a Legendary would be a huge mistake for Arenanet. Acquiring a Legendary is already 95-99% PvE grinding; getting 500 Badges of honor is a joke compared to t6 mat farming. Removing the need to get the WvW POIs and Vista’s is a spit in the face to the PvP’ers.

Kodesh.2019:

The reason for this is that Badges can be attained by luck and jumping puzzles alone.

If this is the case then I have made an honest mistake, for which I unreservedly apologize! I didn’t realize that one could get badges outside of WvWvW. I believed that they were unique to killing players and doing the JPs inside WvWvW.

For the separate PvE versions, the proposal is that no badges and no blueprints would be awarded for anything (JPs or mobs — and you can’t kill fellow players at all, as normal for PvE). Indeed, no PvP rewards of any kind would be dropped, specifically to avoid ruining PvP play. (Witness e.g. the Golem in a Box and other PvE consumables debacles — hopefully Anet learned their lesson there.)

If you don’t want to PvP, then don’t PvP.

No one is pointing a gun to your head.

OP- what server are you on SoR or SoS?

DryHumour.1307:

Kodesh.2019:

The reason for this is that Badges can be attained by luck and jumping puzzles alone.

If this is the case then I have made an honest mistake, for which I unreservedly apologize! I didn’t realize that one could get badges outside of WvWvW. I believed that they were unique to killing players and doing the JPs inside WvWvW.

For the separate PvE versions, the proposal is that no badges and no blueprints would be awarded for anything (JPs or mobs — and you can’t kill fellow players at all, as normal for PvE). Indeed, no PvP rewards of any kind would be dropped, specifically to avoid ruining PvP play. (Witness e.g. the Golem in a Box and other PvE consumables debacles — hopefully Anet learned their lesson there.)

No, I was saying by luck a player could do jumping puzzles in WvW without any enemy contact.

Why cant people stick to one topic about wvw -_-
I think id prefer pve version maps of wvw as an alternative option to finish world completion.(for pve only minded,altoholics,..)
However if combat mode stays unabled till you go out wvw you couldnt just turn it on;you’d have to re enter wvw to enable combat mode.
BUt that would be weird somehow yes,running in enemy camps like “just saying hi and checking how you are doing”
It is weird too that they force pve players in wvw for world completion.
They should make wvw more inviting and not force players in.
I do think they should link wvw and pve more closely together but at the same time keep both optional.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Link-PvE-and-WvW-more-closely-together/first#post1301658

Kodesh.2019:

OP- what server are you on SoR or SoS?

SoR

Tipsy.5802:

Why cant people stick to one topic about wvw -_-
I think id prefer pve version maps of wvw as an alternative option to finish world completion.(for pve only minded,altoholics,..)
However if combat mode stays unabled till you go out wvw you couldnt just turn it on;you’d have to re enter wvw to enable combat mode.
BUt that would be weird somehow yes,running in enemy camps like “just saying hi and checking how you are doing”
It is weird too that they force pve players in wvw for world completion.
They should make wvw more inviting and not force players in.
I do think they should link wvw and pve more closely together but at the same time keep both optional.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Link-PvE-and-WvW-more-closely-together/first#post1301658

Sorry, Tipsy. Should have checked to see if there were other topics like mine. I was just frustrated by a wasted morning of getting ganked while trying to go about my own business.

Still I won’t return to the game until some sort of change is implemented for players like myself.

Xfer to a lower pop server and you wont have as many problems. From your response you are on SoR. 2nd rank server as of the 15th Feb Cough up the 500gems and xfer to Tier7/8. Pretty sure you can get everything you need on one of those 6 servers.

Tipsy.5802:

It is weird too that they force pve players in wvw for world completion.

It’s weird that they force PvP players out of the mists for world completion.

It is just poor design by the developers. Having jumping puzzles on a map masquerading as “PvP” just does not make sense. Move them somewhere else.

gbeermang.2895:

Since my previous post was apparently deleted by a moderator.

Give me a way to flag myself as not a PvP’er so I don’t get killed by other players over and over and over while trying to explore or do jump puzzles in WvWvW. I don’t care about the blueprints or the badges or about getting a legendary. If the only reward for finishing map exploration was a star next to my name, I’d be perfectly happy with that.

I spent the morning trying to finish the Eternal Borderlands jump puzzle only to have Jade Quarry players attack me repeatedly with no provocation on my part. I left myself unarmored and unarmed except for my medkit and flamethrower (for the unlit area). I even tried to wave or bow to let them know I’m not there to fight. Did that help. No, they just kept killing me everytime I went in. For me, this is just griefing. I’m not there to attack them, I wish they would respectfully do the same for me.

If you’re not looking to PvP why are you in the BE JP anyway?

"Oh no I got attacked by other players in a PvP area!"

Join the fight with your world-mates to secure the territory, giving your server time to complete the map(s) and jumping puzzles! I’m certainly not very good at PvP, but I sure like that I am encouraged to do it, just as the PvP folks are encouraged to try out PvE content.

Kodesh.2019:

Tipsy.5802:

It is weird too that they force pve players in wvw for world completion.

It’s weird that they force PvP players out of the mists for world completion.

which then would bring us back to separate/different rewards for completing wvw and pve.(ones usable within the area you finish)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/1-Gift-of-Exploration-for-PvE-1-for-WvW

hmm but not 2 gifts of exploration perhaps for wvw gift of the conquer or something and different icon next to your name (like star for pve,and world icon for wvw)
Though they should bring pve and wvw closer together so people are more eager to try out both.Perhaps the bonus wvw gives to pve is not enough to make wvw attractive to pve players.And pve should have influence on wvw,with for example reinforcements based on how well players in pve perform for that server

Kodesh.2019:

Tipsy.5802:

It is weird too that they force pve players in wvw for world completion.

It’s weird that they force PvP players out of the mists for world completion.

The vast majority of the content of the game is PvE. The PvP stuff is miniscule by comparison. Can’t imagine why they would require you to do PvE related activities in a PvE-centric game.

As for the OP, the PvPers are unfortunately correct in that flagging for WvW doesn’t work. The point of those zones is open PvP and allowing you to pick and choose when you want to engage in it defeats the entire purpose of the game model.

But you can always just squat on a WvW slot and wait for locations to be opened up before you go to them. Let your “team” open the way to your objectives. It’s a bit of a waste of time, but any time spent in the Mists is a waste of time, if you’re just there for map unlocks. This way, you aren’t constantly paying for repairs and waypoint revives, and you’re also not providing free entertainment for anyone on the opposing servers. Might also be worth doing it on a low level alt. Haven’t tried it myself, but I’d assume that even if you got tagged, the costs would be negligible.

The flagging system won’t work. Spies would be all over the place without the option tokill them! Same problem with zergs and striketeams.

Just remove WvW from the map exploration title!

Except exploration and puzzles are NOT PvE exlusive by design. Want it? Do it like it’s designed to (since it is working as intended). You don’t HAVE to have 100% map.

Quite frankly it will not happen.

Not going to happen. If you put yourself in a PvP area, you’re fair game.

It’d be too easy to exploit. Whole army flagged as PvE walks up to enemy held post completely unmolested. They suddenly reflag for PvP and attack.

Don’t know how to solve it, but I am at the end of map completion (96%) and really don’t care for WvW. But am running around trying to get all Poi and Vistas.So I will just jump into a WvW map, look for uncontested or unowned poi that I don’t have, grab them and leave. I may even join a fight for an area that I need. Forcing some players to play in a way they don’t want to or like is just poor design, ditto for the storyline that has to be completed as a group after being allowed and able to solo for every other aspect of the storyline. Many have complianed and made suggestions, but obviously Anet isn’t going to change it.

This one seems to be going about as well as the last one, so I’ll add my piece the same as I did before.

I don’t like PvP. I avoid WvW. I still accomplished my World Completion with minimal effort and have completed the JPs a couple times. It’s simply a matter of being careful and paying attention. Don’t walk into an area assuming the the enemy will just let you through, that’s rediculously ignorant. If you see red names and you don’t want to PvP you need to leave and come back another time.

Why exactly should ANet change huge aspects of the game just because you’re doing something you don’t want to do? If you don’t want to do it, stop doing it. The excuse that you need to do it for X is not a legitimate argument, because you don’t NEED to do anything. You made a choice to commit, that commitment takes you to an area you don’t enjoy. Either suck it up and figure out how to get through it, or give up and go home.

Blude.6812:

Don’t know how to solve it, but I am at the end of map completion (96%) and really don’t care for WvW. But am running around trying to get all Poi and Vistas.So I will just jump into a WvW map, look for uncontested or unowned poi that I don’t have, grab them and leave. I may even join a fight for an area that I need. Forcing some players to play in a way they don’t want to or like is just poor design, ditto for the storyline that has to be completed as a group after being allowed and able to solo for every other aspect of the storyline. Many have complianed and made suggestions, but obviously Anet isn’t going to change it.

Actualy, it’s great design. Getting people out of their comfort zone and playing a way they’re not used to is a very good thing. It expands a persons horizons and may expose them to something that it turns out they do enjoy and just thought they didn’t.

If it turns out they still don’t like it, guess what, it’s over, they don’t have to go back, but having given it a try in the first place was still a good thing.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Blude.6812:

Don’t know how to solve it, but I am at the end of map completion (96%) and really don’t care for WvW. But am running around trying to get all Poi and Vistas.So I will just jump into a WvW map, look for uncontested or unowned poi that I don’t have, grab them and leave. I may even join a fight for an area that I need. Forcing some players to play in a way they don’t want to or like is just poor design, ditto for the storyline that has to be completed as a group after being allowed and able to solo for every other aspect of the storyline. Many have complianed and made suggestions, but obviously Anet isn’t going to change it.

Actualy, it’s great design. Getting people out of their comfort zone and playing a way they’re not used to is a very good thing. It expands a persons horizons and may expose them to something that it turns out they do enjoy and just thought they didn’t.

If it turns out they still don’t like it, guess what, it’s over, they don’t have to go back, but having given it a try in the first place was still a good thing.

Nice thoughts for a philosophy class. LOL. There are many things that exist in the world that I don’t have to try/experience to know that I wouldn’t like. Could start a list but it would likely offend someone and be banned.
Many have tried it and (like I have, though I accept the misguided design decision), and have concluded that they don’t like it. There is no reason to have the last story forced MP and they could have easily made 2 100% map completion awards, one for each.
And yes most if not all go back and deal with the frustration to get the award. It’ just time consuming but possible.
BTW, I have read posts from WvW players who would like it removed too. (taking a space, not helping, taking supplies and not contibuting, attacking Minotaurs). No negative effect off your preferred game style, but plenty of negatives for those that prefer PvE.

Anyway thanks for the thoughts. (and lack of understanding ;-) ).

Faux Play.6104:

It is just poor design by the developers. Having jumping puzzles on a map masquerading as “PvP” just does not make sense. Move them somewhere else.

People that think that a jumping puzzle with PLAYER ACTIVATED TRAPS BUILT INTO IT BY ANET was ever meant for anything but pvp make no sense. Anet designed it and created it and placed it so players could fight over it and in it.
There’s already 50+ PvE puzzles, if you can’t handle PvP them go do those.

I don’t care about jumping puzzles. Unless there is a guaranteed precursor the first time you do it, it is not worth fighting the awful camera mechanics to do them. I don’t like the fact the people who are not contributing constructively to their world’s efforts are taking up a slot in the queue just so they can do a jumping puzzle or grief people that are trying to do it.

Catisa.6507:

Faux Play.6104:

It is just poor design by the developers. Having jumping puzzles on a map masquerading as “PvP” just does not make sense. Move them somewhere else.

People that think that a jumping puzzle with PLAYER ACTIVATED TRAPS BUILT INTO IT BY ANET was ever meant for anything but pvp make no sense. Anet designed it and created it and placed it so players could fight over it and in it.
There’s already 50+ PvE puzzles, if you can’t handle PvP them go do those.

Sorry mate, but it’s perfectly doable to ninja through the map if you want to complete it. You don’t even have to enter all the keeps for poi (though vistas require some more). Yesterday my guild and me jumped into a map that the enemy had completely covered, we had no towers, keeps or anything. We just took some rams (6s each), skipped through half the map, took about 3-4 towers, 1 keep and lots of supply camps, we even ninja’d through the Godsword (northern zone).
Now in order to inform you: my guild isn’t a WvW guild and we were just 10 people and some 10 more people following us around.

Sirendor.1394:

Yesterday my guild and me jumped into a map that the enemy had completely covered, we had no towers, keeps or anything………. we were just 10 people and some 10 more people following us around.

Not quite the solo PvE most are talking about.

Then join a guild. And to counter: “I don’t want to”…
If you don’t want to come into contact with other players, then don’t play an online game, but go play the common single player games and don’t start complaining on online game forums.

I just accept that I am not gonna do the map completion, I have zero interest in wvw/pvp stuff, and I can’t really see changing what players in wvw like.

Likewise, I cannot agree with the requests for open world pvp in the pve maps ( I have seen requests/demands for this). They are pve maps for a reason and it would turn off a huge number of players.

I’m more in support of removing the need to go into W3 for map completion. Really, all I manage to do when I attempt to complete the maps in question;

1) deny a spot for someone who actually wants to battle in wvwvw

2) provide amusement for the people who camp out at all the vista/poi’s on the map, one would assume purely to gank folks like myself who’d prefer to not be battling other humans, but still want map completion.

3) once in a great while, actually prove to be a boon instead of a burden to my world whilst in W3. (this is not common – generally i’m not even good wall fodder…)

There’s an easy way to ensure that players can’t abuse a hypothetical flagging option. You can only flag yourself as PvP/non-PvP while within your “safe-zone”, the area guarded by Legendary Defenders. While flagged as non-PvP, all of your weapon and utility skills are disabled. Furthermore, while flagged as non-PvP, you can only see other non-PvP flagged players. Other PvP players are completely invisible to you. Likewise, PvP players cannot even see (nor affect) non-PvP players.

actually, thats a great idea!

but i guess i would be unflagged most of the time… one of the things i love is to wander around doing nothing and then seeing a gigantic zerg of my team and join them

I think people just need to view the wvw JP’s as group events. I wouldn’t go in alone unless you are ok with being killed, yanked off platform (followed by “xx invader laughs”), or just trolled in general.
I swear the JP in wvw is psychology experiment funded by some university somewhere. I’ve grown to appreciate the weirdness that goes on in there. One group let me get the chest then threw me off the end platform to my death. It’s the only place in the game when you don’t know if an enemy is going to attack you. A mesmer with a portal can become a demigod. Tensions rise as thrown torches in the dark room keep setting a friendly invader on fire. Waves and bows sometimes expire when a 2v1 situation develops.

Just to clear few things:

There is no PvE completionist achievement
Been There Done That has nothing to do with “exploration”
Been There Done That is awarded for having 100% completion
Legendaries are skins only, you don’t need them for anything
If there is something wrong with how the title is awarded, it’s the fact that you don’t need to do sPvP or dungeons for it.

For every achievement, there is a requirement. If you do not like the requirement, don’t do the achievement. Making things easier just because someone doesn’t like part of the content is the wrong way to go.

An idea.
Instead of introducing something that we all agree could (and would) be abused, perhaps jumping puzzles should become a neutral zone. Being a PvE player myself and rather bad at jumping puzzles, I honestly don’t find it fair that enemy players can just camp there. Jumping puzzles should be about the platforming challenge, not if you can survive being jumped by random campers.
Yes, WvWvW is a war zone, but even wars have neutral areas where no one runs screaming and shooting at the enemy. To accomplish this, a kind of invulnerability boon could be instated on everyone in the main jumping puzzle area (just the idea that I thought of, could be something different, main thing is to keep us from killing each other) . Obviously A-net would have to ensure that it wouldn’t be abused so that players inside wouldn’t camp and kill those without it.
Personally, I don’t think that this would be that much of a problem to the PvP feel of the area. You still have to fight your way to the jumping puzzle and every war has some area that says “No fighting here!!!” . That being said, I do understand that not everyone will agree with me. If you do see a flaw in this, feel free to point it out, but please don’t go raging at it just because I’m suggesting a change.

Kodesh.2019:

Removing the need to get the WvW POIs and Vista’s is a spit in the face to the PvP’ers.

Insinuating that WvW playerse are PvPers is a spit in the face to the PvPers.
Don’t worry, I’m mostly joking. Many WvW players are pleasantly competent mechanically, or unpleasantly depending on if I’m trying to kill them.

On topic:
Making badges of honor a requirement for legendaries was an attempt at some cross pollination of pve into WvW, the latter of which requires enormous amounts of people to be functional in any way.
Is it crazy that Anet wants a player who has achieved the ultimate item-based goal of GW2 to have at least dabbled in all of the available content? Not really. I’m sorry that you hate WvW so much, but you should probably stop posting this thread.