Guild Wars 2

I don’t need to watch a video in order to comment on this.

WoW is a great game, GW2 is a great game. GW2 should swallow their pride and listen to their fanbase on multiple issues.

This game is so casual friendly I’m surprised it’s not on XBOX or PS3.

Edit: Watched the entire video and I agree with every point. There’s a reason WoW is STILL to this day, a success. They have had endgame content since there was an endgame, and that was fairly early on. GW2 HAS no endgame “kitten kitten the path to 80 IS the endgame!!1!!” no it’s not, that’s just a part of the game.

I enjoy them both, but I’m a “100% complete” type of guy so I work to complete things, and with this many temporary things that are stuck in and removed from this game, I feel like a lost cause. I’ve already missed the Christmas one and a few others, because I was bummed about ANet going back on their word regarding account-wide dyes, so I quit for a bit.

I didn’t watch the video but did read your bullet points. I say instead of making GW2 more like WoW, how about making more like it’s predecessor GW. One of my favorite things about GW was that it wasn’t over when you hit level cap, hell most of the time you still had 75% of the story to go and then there was PvP with HoH, GvG, and Arenas.

Galphar.3901:

I didn’t watch the video but did read your bullet points. I say instead of making GW2 more like WoW, how about making more like it’s predecessor GW. One of my favorite things about GW was that it wasn’t over when you hit level cap, hell most of the time you still had 75% of the story to go and then there was PvP with HoH, GvG, and Arenas.

More permenet content.
It should go without saying that looking to anything that was successful in the past, be it WoW, GW1 or any other great game should be considered a good thing.
Both WoW and GW1 added plenty of strong permenent content over time, and was their focus over Temporary content.
GW2 should be doing the same.

Though guild wars does have little things hidden int he game that could lead to spoilers, such as this thing that was found and still can be found

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/dragonbash/The-Mysterious-Rock-Formation

I would like the point out the fact the author of the video basically says in the first minute. Either you hate how gw2 is or your a thoughtless fan boy.

Personally, I believe guild wars 2 has a lot of innovative original ideas that need far more polish. However, copying another game is not a way to be innovative. I believe the term “wow clone” comes in here. If everyone is copying wow, then you’ll never get ahead following the pack.

Well there’s nothing wrong with the current temporal content.. basically. There should be more permanent content as well though. We need both.

Same with fractals there is nothing wrong with them in my opinion.. basically. However the only difficulty change are higher chance for alternate ways and alternate bosses as well as enemies having more health and attack damage. That’s not the way to make something difficult. Anet should find an alternate to modifying health and damage to create a better scaling of difficulty that might actually be more interesting.

About the achievements.. I agree that the dragon bash achievements and a bunch of over achievements are… hmmmm… crap. They ask you to farm stuff. Let’s take a look at the south sun achievements. There were a few that could actually be called achievements. E.g. the goggles achievement as you have to figure out how to get it.
The PvP achievements may seem like farming achievements but they’re actually not (at least those considering the amount of rang points you collected) telling that you have achieved a certain amount/rank. Or winning a certain amount of tpvp games which really isn’t that easy.

Anet shouldn’t only take good things from WoW but I guess you took WoW as an example to show things. There are many games with good aspects but flaws as well. The only thing people have to do is combine good aspects of games. E.g. Cube World. Oh I’m so excited for it <3 infinite minecraft (MMO)RPG clone where you can modify your weapons all the way you want till a certain point.

zerorogue.9410:

I would like the point out the fact the author of the video basically says in the first minute. Either you hate how gw2 is or your a thoughtless fan boy.

Personally, I believe guild wars 2 has a lot of innovative original ideas that need far more polish. However, copying another game is not a way to be innovative. I believe the term “wow clone” comes in here. If everyone is copying wow, then you’ll never get ahead following the pack.

Actually, I say if you are happy with the current state of GW2 then you may as well stop watching because the video isn’t going to concern you. I then go on to say if there are things you don’t like about GW2 and you’d still rathe leave the usual “GW2 isn’t ment to be like WoW” THEN you are a thoughtless fanboy.
Taking the best parts of a game, putting your own spin on those ideas and then combining it with your games goals isn’t copying, It’s how the entire gaming industry works. That’s why genres exist in the first place.
GW2 has already “copyed” WoW by being an MMO if that’s your method of thinking.

Since a few weeks i’ve watched your video’s and i agree with u.
GW2 can do better. temp content is nice but since well the first beta’s i’ve been waiting for some new content. So far we got 1 extra map that only got better last month. I feel the last of perm content and the tengu race/ canthan influence i’m a big fan of both of these ;3

About fractals i found it fun to do, but it became a daily routine and it became less fun when i wanted to play another class i needed to redo all from lvl 1. Still with the fractal update i can join higher lvl but i do not get the same rewards, i run fractals for rings/backpieces which are a pain to get for all my toons

While I agree with most things you said, you mention that casuals are in it for the short term. That’s not necessarily true and the thing is that there are WAY more casual gamers than there are ‘hardcore’ ones. The money is there. Companies still need to earn money. Whether or not they should compromise their game in order to satisfy the casual gamers is a different discussion, but why should they do the same for the ‘hardcore’ gamers? It’s pretty obvious that their focus is on the casual gamer.

Kaaboose.3897:

Now I know there are those that hate videos/my voice so here’s what is covered in this video:

Going to watch later. Everyone deserves a second chance. I’m going to comment on these points right now.

• GW2 and WoW already share many similarities, both good and bad. Anet should be emulating the good things that don’t interfere with its goals while dropping the bad stuff.

To me, it sounds like “GW2 is already a WoW clone, let’s make it identical”. Do not agree but that might be in the wording. Personally I’m happy that WoW and GW2 are vastly different bar for being MMOs (like coke and wodka both being drinks).

• I compare the first 10 months of WoW to the first 10 months of GW2 for thoese that break out the “You can’t compare the two because WoW is older” arguement
• Some things Anet could take from WoW are Clearer Patch Notes, Risk Vs. Reward, Content for long term players, Public Test Realms and More Permenent content.

Permanent content: yes, totally agree
Public test realms: didn’t work in WoW, ain’t gonna work in GW2 either. Not needed.
Patch notes: I didn’t care about WoW’s patch notes because it was all hardcore content, which I couldn’t play. GW2’s patch notes are good.
Risk/reward: absolutely, but only if cosmetics. Some should also be casual dosed, like an extremely difficult 5 minute jumping puzzle that can be farmed for extremely rare weapons (think BDS, frog staff …)
Long term content: yes, absolutely, but again, should be cosmetics.

• Some things GW2 should stop doing that Wow does is Enforcing a Grind/Timesink for challenging content and Dumbing down their game for the casual playerbase.

Casuals don’t necessarily want dumbed down content, but it should be bite sized. The Mad King’s tower is a perfect example, maybe with a hard mode that adds randomization to platform movement. Apart from that I agree.

One thing to note … grind and timesink don’t make for challenging content necessarily, neither does gear gating and forcing raids or trinity. That’s annoying content, and doing annoying stuff usually is hard. I wouldn’t call ironing shirts or cleaning my apartment hard, but it sure is an annoying time sink. That’s how I think about WoW’s raids too. Not a single one was actually hard mechanicswise.

As always guys I welcome feedback, Ideas and Critisism alike, Though I do ask you keep the rabid fanboism down if you can. If you want to defend the current state of GW2 as being okay I’m cool with that, but give us a bit more then “WoW sucks, GW2 is Great! You Suck!” comments please.

I hope this post qualifies. Let’s hope rabid anti-gw2 fanboys can keep their cool too.

Subfocus.4732:

This game is so casual friendly I’m surprised it’s not on XBOX or PS3.

Anything else you say is going to be ignored after this comment.
If you think consoles are exclusively for “Casual” gamers, you’ve not played enough console games.
From this generation alone, Demon’s and Dark Souls can hardly be regarded as “Casual”.

Street Fighter 4? Casual? If you think that, you’re probably terrible at it.

Getting every star and purple coin in Mario Galaxy? Yeah, not casual.

Then there’s the legendary difficulty of old console games like Battletoads.

Don’t pigeon-hole things. You only end up making yourself look stupid.

Also, in general, try to avoid using sloppy generalisations such as Casual or Core / Hardcore. They’re marketing terms that have been widely adopted by the more ignorant gamer and are too broad to actually be useful when measuring a player’s gaming habits.

zerorogue.9410:

I would like the point out the fact the author of the video basically says in the first minute. Either you hate how gw2 is or your a thoughtless fan boy.

Personally, I believe guild wars 2 has a lot of innovative original ideas that need far more polish. However, copying another game is not a way to be innovative. I believe the term “wow clone” comes in here. If everyone is copying wow, then you’ll never get ahead following the pack.

The term “wow clone” is really tossed around a lot these days and I don’t know if people really understand that if a game is an MMO its gonna have things that are like other MMOs. WoW defiantely wasn’t the first MMO ever to be created and it took some things from other games; but that’s how games expand and hit the next level of gaming by taking original ideas from other games, expanding them, and adding a totally new twist to them to keep them interesting. GW2 adding anything that WoW had or has wouldnt make it a “wow clone” in anyway but would help GW2 develop as a game and invite new players and old players to play.

And Kaaboose, thank you for posting this on these forums and the GW2guru forums. I have replied to both now and really understand your idea that ANet really needs to hear what the players have to say and work with the players to create new and fun content for the game we have come to love.

Watched the video:
1/ thanks for the apologies at the end. Hope you accept mine.
2/ you’re mostly right
3/ casuals are the vast majority, and most certainly play for years. With vast I literally mean 60% to 80%. Playing what is commonly considered hardcore is simply not possible for people with real life commitments. Most people are happy to get 1 or 2 hours a day. Some are even happy to have the 30 minutes it takes to complete a daily.
It’s easier to get years out of a game casually than hardcore. Not a single “I’m quitting thread” was made by casual people because they still play and still have a lot of goals to go for. With two hours a day tops, I can’t exhaust content nearly as fast as you do.
4/ ask many people why they kept playing GW1 for years, and that’s because it could be played casually and you could still achieve most things. It was the #1 redeeming quality over WoW.
4.1/ I actually quit WoW because after months of play, I still had nothing to show for. After a year I had 3/8 tier 1 and then expansion destroyed my character. Thanks Blizzard… vanilla was too hardcore, not made for humans.
5/ if you wanted a hardcore game, GW2 was not the right purchase and you knew that before launch.
6/ that said, casual does not equal to difficult. It equals to low time requirements. I want difficult content too, but not 3 hours content locked behind 40 fractal levels.
6.1/ I’m not going to complete the dragon bash achievements. They’re too boring, and I don’t buy RNG boxes.
6.2/ gathering some skills in GW1 could be very difficult, yet only took a few minutes if done right. That’s what I want first and foremost. Getting UAX was difficult but still bite sized.

I’m not going to debate the PTR further. It didn’t work in WoW, that’s my experience with it. People used it to raid Ironforge, which crashed the PTR, while hardcore raids secretly gathered exploits to get world first kills. In the end, all content was spoiled before it even released. I like surprise content and hotfixes more, personally. It’s a choice.

Stating you won’t buy gems anymore at the end is cheap. It doesn’t change your argument for the better, it actually undermines it by being childish and spoiled. I’d not have included that, your video would have been that bit better without. But ignoring that, I agree to some things, and don’t with others.

Casual regards

M

Or in other words …

casuals are the core public for GW2, while hardcores are not.

And to triple post

The inherent problem with vloggers like you and dontain, is that most people who vlog put a lot of time into it. As such, they’re most likely to fall in the hardcore camp and make their opinions very vocal at the same time. That’s fine to a degree, but it is also a very selective bias.

I’d like to make a series of commenting videos on how the casual segment perceives Guild Wars but frankly … I don’t have the time to produce those. I’ve got some notes and scripts written on toilet paper though :p My free time goes entirely into GW2, which is about 2 hours a day. I can’t squeeze in videos too.

@OP

You completly ignored the bussiness model of GW2 (B2P) and WoW (P2P)
by saying GW2 need more HC players… ehm NO
GW2 needs causual players because its B2P
WoW needs HC players because its P2P

Making GW2 more HC will discourage new potential causual players from buying the game

marnick.4305:

4/ ask many people why they kept playing GW1 for years, and that’s because it could be played casually and you could still achieve most things. It was the #1 redeeming quality over WoW.

I disagree with almost all you said, but I’m not going to bother pointing out why you’re wrong.

I’d just like to say this: I played GW1 for 6 years. I played as a casual the first couple of year, but the last few of them, I played as what you could have called ‘hardcore’ (mainly DoASC wise). What kept me playing GW1? The permanent, ‘hard’, fun, rewarding content. I put ‘hard’ between quotes, because to us, it wasn’t really hard at all, but to most players of the game, it was.

Guess what kept almost everyone in the SC community play? The permanent, hard, fun, rewarding content. Guess which community stayed alive the longest in GW1? The SC community. The PvP had long before that died and only a few of the original ones still played. The SC community stayed very strong until the end of 2011, beginning 2012, at which point, most of the high-end pro’s quit. The reason PvE stayed alive was because there actually was a competitive PvE scene in the form of records.

The people that kept playing GW1 the longest and the most were NOT the casuals. It were the hardcore PvE’ers and some of the hardcore PvP’ers.

Bright.9160:

I’d just like to say this: I played GW1 for 6 years. I played as a casual the first couple of year, but the last few of them, I played as what you could have called ‘hardcore’ (mainly DoASC wise). What kept me playing GW1? The permanent, ‘hard’, fun, rewarding content. I put ‘hard’ between quotes, because to us, it wasn’t really hard at all, but to most players of the game, it was.

Hard content, not hardcore. Hardcore means 3+ hours required time investments, which almost didn’t exist in GW1.

Guess what kept almost everyone in the SC community play? The permanent, hard, fun, rewarding content. Guess which community stayed alive the longest in GW1? The SC community. The PvP had long before that died and only a few of the original ones still played. The SC community stayed very strong until the end of 2011, beginning 2012, at which point, most of the high-end pro’s quit. The reason PvE stayed alive was because there actually was a competitive PvE scene in the form of records.

And yet, speedclears became so fast that most could be done in under an hour, which becomes a casual time investment yet extremely hard. That’s what I call perfect content.
If those speedclears would have taken several hours instead of 30 minutes (conset time), they’d have died out very soon. They thrived because casual yet smart players could partake in them.

As such, your entire post I agree with because it’s a case in point.

The people that kept playing GW1 the longest and the most were NOT the casuals. It were the hardcore PvE’ers and some of the hardcore PvP’ers.

I did speedclears too, I loved them because they were hard without being annoyingly long. Casual time investment with hard gameplay. That’s what I want from my games.

If you disagree with any of my points, feel free to explain, because I don’t see opinions, only facts. Facts can’t be argued about. Be clear that with “hardcore” I mean long time investments. I’m for hard content and against hardcore content.

marnick.4305:

Be clear that with “hardcore” I mean long time investments. I’m for hard content and against hardcore content.

In this case, I think you’re arguing with Kaboose on the wrong points.

I think when Kaboose talks about hardcore content, he means challenging, rewarding content that might be too hard for some of the casuals, but is meant for the ‘hardcore’ community. I don’t want 3h+ instances either, the fact that Fractals 48 usually takes 1h-1h20 is already painful enough. I just want challenging content for the more dedicated players that is rewarding at the same time and isn’t purely RNG based.

DoA did it best, because it had a guaranteed moneyflow. You always knew exactly how much money you would make (approximately), because there weren’t many skins there that were worth money. You could pick up q9 golds and sell them on guru for like 10-15k/ea, and you had the occasional q8 max blue inscribable drop, but that was about it for extra cash you could make.

UW, FoW, Urgoz and Deep were riskier in terms of rewards, but also did it really well. You always had the end chest, which was a guaranteed few shards/ecto’s and ruby/onyx/whatever else you got, and then some golds, with the occasional really expensive drop. The thing UW and FoW did so great over DoA was the fact that trash mobs were worth killing (yeah, I know, what a shock), because they could drop the items you were there for in the first place: ecto’s and shards (same for Deep and Urgoz, but Jade/Amber became so worthless in the end, skipclears became the norm). Admittedly, this system wasn’t implemented until later in the game, but at least the areas were there.

And then you had normal dungeons, in EotN, where trash mobs were not worth killing, and you only had the end chest with the chance of a really expensive drop. Which also worked really well.

What I just don’t get is that ArenaNet made a game, built around both casual players and hard core players in GW1, had an almost flawless system in terms of hard content, coupled with appropriate rewards, and when building GW2 decided to completely ignore EVERYTHING they ever did right, and go with everything they ever did wrong instead.

Bright.9160:

marnick.4305:

Be clear that with “hardcore” I mean long time investments. I’m for hard content and against hardcore content.

In this case, I think you’re arguing with Kaboose on the wrong points.

I think when Kaboose talks about hardcore content, he means challenging, rewarding content that might be too hard for some of the casuals, but is meant for the ‘hardcore’ community. I don’t want 3h+ instances either, the fact that Fractals 48 usually takes 1h-1h20 is already painful enough. I just want challenging content for the more dedicated players that is rewarding at the same time and isn’t purely RNG based.

Why would it be too hard for casuals but not for hardcore? Do casuals not possess the same intelligence as hardcore people?
I want dungeon master one day, which is a pretty hard/hardcore title to get. For that, I’ve been watching lupi videos during lunch break and read up on tactics. Sure I can’t play millions of hours, but I do prepare so I can make the most out of the time I have.

What I just don’t get is that ArenaNet made a game, built around both casual players and hard core players in GW1, had an almost flawless system in terms of hard content, coupled with appropriate rewards, and when building GW2 decided to completely ignore EVERYTHING they ever did right, and go with everything they ever did wrong instead.

They’ve done a lot wrong in GW1 too, and I’m happy some improvements were made. I sincerely hope they’ll focus on hard but casual content (let’s call it smart casual). I also hope they will not produce anymore hardcore content. The current guild missions are a step in that direction, especially with the 15 minutes hard cap.

marnick.4305:

Why would it be too hard for casuals but not for hardcore? Do casuals not possess the same intelligence as hardcore people?
I want dungeon master one day, which is a pretty hard/hardcore title to get. For that, I’ve been watching lupi videos during lunch break and read up on tactics. Sure I can’t play millions of hours, but I do prepare so I can make the most out of the time I have.

Because a lot of them don’t know how to play the game efficiently. I’m not saying all casuals are bad, but most of them are not what I’d call good either.

Not all content should be doable for all players. There were many players that had never completed UW or DoA in GW1, and it didn’t change their experience in the game one bit. Mainly because everything you got in UW and DoA was tradeable, so they could just get the money elsewhere, in a less challenging, and less rewarding area, and buy the gear they wanted that way. Smooth, perfect system.

I’m not saying the content should be undoable if you aren’t a perfectly geared and organized group of individuals, but unless you properly prepare for it, you should be in for a bumpy ride. Look at DoA. Hardcore (as in, the people that went out of their way to learn the area) SC players breezed through that area. PUGs had to take a while, and had to run a gimmicky teambuild, but they were still able to complete it, albeit it took a lot longer and gave worse rewards because they did it in NM. But that was because they didn’t bother to learn the area. The hardcores got rewarded for their efforts, as it should be.

And, not to sound like an elitist prick, but no, most casuals don’t posses the same knowledge (not necessarily intelligence) that the more dedicated players have. Which again, is only reasonable, but what I don’t get is that they get rewarded for it.

They’ve done a lot wrong in GW1 too, and I’m happy some improvements were made. I sincerely hope they’ll focus on hard but casual content (let’s call it smart casual). I also hope they will not produce anymore hardcore content. The current guild missions are a step in that direction, especially with the 15 minutes hard cap.

What was wrong with the hard content like DoA, UW, FoW, Deep, Urgoz and to some extent Sorrow’s Furnace? It was a challenge and rewarding, and players loved it, and kept doing it for those reasons.

If by hard but casual you mean: hard content that doesn’t take an eternity to complete, but does require some skill and preparation in order to get it done, than I wholeheartedly agree.

No I don’t want Raid this get amour or you cant do WvsWvsW there GW2 have done so right and blizzard so wrong, don’t get how anyone can play WOW after first update when what you spent 6month getting is worthless and you can with coin buy better.

Do raids in GW2 but they should not give better armour/weapon then you can get somewhere else.

marnick.4305:

Going to watch later. Everyone deserves a second chance. I’m going to comment on these points right now.

• GW2 and WoW already share many similarities, both good and bad. Anet should be emulating the good things that don’t interfere with its goals while dropping the bad stuff.

To me, it sounds like “GW2 is already a WoW clone, let’s make it identical”. Do not agree but that might be in the wording. Personally I’m happy that WoW and GW2 are vastly different bar for being MMOs (like coke and wodka both being drinks).

Why post BEFORE you watch the video? That isn’t what he’s saying at all.

marnick.4305:

hardcore content, which I couldn’t play.

ah so you’re one of these casual players

marnick.4305:

GW2’s patch notes are good.

no they are not

The temporary content issue can easily be resolved by making it replayable in the same way Guild Wars Beyond missions from Hearts of the North could be replayed from the Scrying pool in the Eye of the North.

Though the new Living Story step is heavily tied to the Dragon Bash holiday.. I’d imagine this living story step might have to be replayable only during Dragon Bash by visiting some sort of NPC or memorial that’ll allow you to replay this content? Maybe Anet could implement a refugee/consortium NPC in Southsun Cove that “retells the tale” of the events from “Last Stand at Southsun” for those living story missions. There’s plenty of creative ways ArenaNet could go about making temporary content replayable again by new players.

I also agree with your complaint about achievements, they’re too easy. Most GW1 titles were time-consuming though, but they were definitely hard to achieve. Living story achievements seem to come with “complete x amount of achievements for this shiny pair of gloves and back pieces” so I tend to look at them as “holiday quests/tasks for holiday items” and not as real achievements. I prefer this instead of pressing O to open up the gemstore, double clicking on a pair of free Devil Horns and getting them immediately before logging out bored. Wouldn’t hurt them to toughen up the difficulty of these achievements and/or spreading us out in the open world to complete them like the scavenger hunt for the Mad Memoires: Complete Edition from Halloween.

Bright.9160:

Because a lot of them don’t know how to play the game efficiently. I’m not saying all casuals are bad, but most of them are not what I’d call good either.

Let’s not put people into insulting boxes. Hardcore people on average aren’t known for their social skills either. Now that we’re even, let’s stop this kind of kitten throwing.

Not all content should be doable for all players. There were many players that had never completed UW or DoA in GW1, and it didn’t change their experience in the game one bit. Mainly because everything you got in UW and DoA was tradeable, so they could just get the money elsewhere, in a less challenging, and less rewarding area, and buy the gear they wanted that way. Smooth, perfect system.

I agree to a certain degree. As you might imagine, I didn’t complete UW nor DoA and it didn’t influence me much. I did play UW to a fair extent, didn’t play DoA at all. However such content already exists in GW2. Not everyone will complete tier 3 bounties or Guild puzzles, and only a minority will ever complete FotM48. I don’t care about either group. That said, the content should be approachable to a degree, which FotM10 and bounty tier 1 certainly are.

But that was because they didn’t bother to learn the area. The hardcores got rewarded for their efforts, as it should be.

It’s not that I didn’t bother to learn the area, it’s more that I simply didn’t have the time. Guild Wars 1 was an extremely large game, especially by the time HM DoA released. Getting 50/50 was a pretty daunting task but I managed. GWAMM was difficult too but I managed.
Learning a hard time sink AND getting my degree AND getting the kitten laude I wanted was impossible. I put a lot of effort into GW1, but there’s a limit. DoA HM was that limit. At that point, I had to choose, and I chose my future. I graduated with flying grades and got a nice job. I got the reward I wanted from not doing DoA HM. That’s my choice and I stand by it. In the end, I bought someone’s armbrace and got that tormented weapon too.

And, not to sound like an elitist prick, but no, most casuals don’t posses the same knowledge (not necessarily intelligence) that the more dedicated players have. Which again, is only reasonable, but what I don’t get is that they get rewarded for it.

Knowledge isn’t the right word. Experience is. Casuals indeed don’t have the same amount of experience through repetition. I want to be rewarding for beating the content, not necessarily for beating it 100 times. Once I can beat content, I could theoretically beat is ad nauseam, but I’d rather move on to the next piece of content. On the other hand, on a rainy weekend, I’d like to beat all hard dungeons in a binge session.

If by hard but casual you mean: hard content that doesn’t take an eternity to complete, but does require some skill and preparation in order to get it done, than I wholeheartedly agree.

Agree.

Mist Y.5214:

marnick.4305:

hardcore content, which I couldn’t play.

ah so you’re one of these casual players

And proud of it. I take it you’re one of the vocal minority?

marnick.4305:

Mist Y.5214:

marnick.4305:

hardcore content, which I couldn’t play.

ah so you’re one of these casual players

And proud of it. I take it you’re one of the vocal minority?

Not so vocal that I feel the need to comment on videos I haven’t watched…

marnick.4305:

I did speedclears too

marnick.4305:

I didn’t complete UW nor DoA

I think maybe you’re not talking about the SCs that were actually challenging? When I think of the SC community, the activities I associate with them are the kind that actually require players to work as a team. That was the kind of content I loved in GW1, and I believe that’s what Bright was referring to too. We don’t really have much of that at all in GW2, and what there is painfully dumbed down. If it’s possible to hop into a team and complete an area you’ve never done before with no communication other than the occasional “321 go”, that area is probably insufficiently challenging. Okay, so some areas like that are fine – otherwise how would we cater for people who can’t read or use voice chat? But when basically everything in the game is that way, hardcore players find ourselves just redoing the stuff that’s easy enough for casuals, and that’s seriously unfun. If A/D in SoOSC (with no penalty for dying, since the rest of the team could finish it for you) had been the pinnacle of challenging tasks in GW1, the game would have died so much faster.

marnick.4305:

Bright.9160:

Because a lot of them don’t know how to play the game efficiently. I’m not saying all casuals are bad, but most of them are not what I’d call good either.

Let’s not put people into insulting boxes. Hardcore people on average aren’t known for their social skills either. Now that we’re even, let’s stop this kind of kitten throwing.

I actually didn’t put anyone in insulting boxes, I just made a general assumption without insulting anyone straight up. I could have worded that a lot worse lol.

marnick.4305:

I agree to a certain degree. As you might imagine, I didn’t complete UW nor DoA and it didn’t influence me much. I did play UW to a fair extent, didn’t play DoA at all. However such content already exists in GW2. Not everyone will complete tier 3 bounties or Guild puzzles, and only a minority will ever complete FotM48. I don’t care about either group. That said, the content should be approachable to a degree, which FotM10 and bounty tier 1 certainly are.

Lol @ comparing t3 bounties or Guild puzzles with DoA. Seriously? They are nothing alike. They both require a little bit of coordination and knowledge of what you are doing, I’ll give you that. But in terms of challenge or reward they’re nothing alike. DoA required actually competent players to do it in HM, guild missions can be completed by a zerg of braindead terribads easily.

I wouldn’t mind Fractals 48 if it wasn’t such a time sink that had trash rewards and where the reward you wanted the most is based around an incredibly flawed RNG system. But I’m crossing my fingers that they’ll overhaul Fractals and dungeon rewards when they launch their new reward system later this summer.

marnick.4305:

It’s not that I didn’t bother to learn the area, it’s more that I simply didn’t have the time. Guild Wars 1 was an extremely large game, especially by the time HM DoA released. Getting 50/50 was a pretty daunting task but I managed. GWAMM was difficult too but I managed.
Learning a hard time sink AND getting my degree AND getting the kitten laude I wanted was impossible. I put a lot of effort into GW1, but there’s a limit. DoA HM was that limit. At that point, I had to choose, and I chose my future. I graduated with flying grades and got a nice job. I got the reward I wanted from not doing DoA HM. That’s my choice and I stand by it. In the end, I bought someone’s armbrace and got that tormented weapon too.

Gratz on getting getting your degree with flying colors but like you said, that’s the tradeoff. Don’t have the time to do it? Don’t do it, but don’t whine about unfair rewards then. I’m not saying you are, but there were a lot of players who were complaining about high-level Fractals being way more rewarding than anything else in the game, which they thought was unfair. Consequently, Fractals got a pretty big loot nerf, and look what happened. Most of the high-lvl fractal players quit.

By the way, DoA wasn’t a big time sink, it was a talent sink really. I knew people that had never done DoA in their life being able to tank after less than a month and I knew people that were doing DoA for years and couldn’t tank if their life depended on it.

I guess this is going no where though, and let’s agree on the fact that Anet needs to introduce rewarding, hard, permanent content that isn’t a time sink like Fractals, where difficulty increase apparently = more time to complete because mobs just get more HP and one-shot you anyway.

Ten months into WoW all players had shelled out $200 to play the game and it was still a bug ridden mess by comparison to GW2. GW2 has far more content than WoW did at this point as well. Comparing content from release between the two is apples and oranges.

I do agree that more epic content needs to be put in but as someone mentioned earlier that is a lesson best learned from GW which always contained difficult content especially for casual players.

IMO value for dollar GW2 is owning WoW as it is today and certainly better than WoW 10 months after release. Can the game be better sure, but so far GW2 is the best game in this genre and still pretty early in its lifespan.

marnick.4305:

And proud of it. I take it you’re one of the vocal minority?

Just based on the contents of this thread I would rate you as a pretty hardcore player actually. You have an extensive knowledge of GW1 and 2, and you read up on strategies and tactics to make yourself a better player. And you post a lot on the forums.

In other words, you are like me. I also dont have a lot of time to play but I do all these things and still consider myself a casual player. The problem is that casual and hardcore, as definitions, are neither accurate nor objective enough. Discussion of them invariably devolves into arguing as people misunderstand each others definition of the words and get insulted by imaginary slights. (For example you took offense at Brights comments about casuals, because if they were directed at someone like you or me they would be a bit offensive. He wasn’t talking about casuals like us though, he was talking about another type of casual, one that likely wouldn’t know there was an official forum.)

We really need to come up with a better way of defining players.

To Kaaboose: If you like WOW so much, why play GW2? This game is a very different game from wow, and has the liberty to do whatever new things it needs to be original. Some people dont like wow, I actually despise it. My opinion of course.

Aden Celeste.3650:

To Kaaboose: If you like WOW so much, why play GW2? This game is a very different game from wow, and has the liberty to do whatever new things it needs to be original. Some people dont like wow, I actually despise it. My opinion of course.

I love how I can tell just from your comment that you didn’t watch the video.

Oh no kabooose GW2 is awesome … if it would be a little more challaging and more things to do.
The archieves are indeed no more then go 10 times to the toilet and flush it. something like that. No Quest go there and do something good to the world wich actually helps the world. or when you do nothing it get worse. Time for me to look up on those promise who Anet made before they release this. Anyone got the link?
Its a shame while it looks pretty good you can kill most dragons with not even moving around and just go autoattack and go afk, come back and you got the gold award. The awards are pretty useless and in the end not worth doing.
Maybe they should revamp the rewards. we dont want loads of blue’s and greens and rare’s we want skins, rare ones! who look mighty cool when you have the compete set.
You can do it like this… make it a kinda scavangerhunt. you need so much pieces of this to make an item out of it. and make the dragons a little harder. now its not even funny. Also the dungeons should be remade. Reason people complain about the warrior is to strong is they feel their class is useless. give the other classes use again.
Like in CC or whatever they can do best. adjust the boss to that. make it feel like a teamsport again. Make the story personal again. that will be the most difficult task you have to do.. but you made the promise of personaly story not me

Even you dont like to play as much anymore kaboose, hope to talk to you in the game.
Enjoyed your video’s like Always. your dear fanboy of gw2!

To ANet, if you look upon youtube you know people like kaboose and dontain put up this video’s to make the game beter. and they really want it to succeed. hopefully you pop in a few of their idea’s. Give us something really challanging wich will make us hate the dungeon but love you for making it.

A somewhat casual player!

In terms of how WoW would release some features, sure, GW2 should be more like WoW.
- When it comes to Game Design, no one should be saying that GW2 should clone WoW.

Adding more permanent content and doing what WoW did so that players would feel like they got their money’s worth of content (since it was subscription based) was crucial to its survival. Having enough content for players to do so they wouldn’t run out is another issue. It didn’t take long for the first “World Completion” people to have achieved that.

- I’d like for Living Story to go more with the Lost Shores kind of design. Some events that play out, it ends and things go back to normal for some time.
- Players should be populating the world and not just the zones in which the Living Story takes place with each new release. And the achievements are just another word for “Quests” because that is what they are. They are quests. Go kill x of this or do x of that.
- I’m amazed that people haven’t responded to this as much before.

Mungrul.9358:

Subfocus.4732:

This game is so casual friendly I’m surprised it’s not on XBOX or PS3.

Anything else you say is going to be ignored after this comment.
If you think consoles are exclusively for “Casual” gamers, you’ve not played enough console games.
From this generation alone, Demon’s and Dark Souls can hardly be regarded as “Casual”.

Street Fighter 4? Casual? If you think that, you’re probably terrible at it.

Getting every star and purple coin in Mario Galaxy? Yeah, not casual.

Then there’s the legendary difficulty of old console games like Battletoads.

Don’t pigeon-hole things. You only end up making yourself look stupid.

Also, in general, try to avoid using sloppy >generalizations< (fixed that for you) such as Casual or Core / Hardcore. They’re marketing terms that have been widely adopted by the more ignorant gamer and are too broad to actually be useful when measuring a player’s gaming habits.

I stand by my point, the only “hardcore” game is Super Mario 64 and Pokemon Snap. Also, I’m sorry you’re going to ignore me because of that, I was set on becoming your best friend.

Make GW 2 More Like World of Warcraft!

Rabble Rabble Rabble!!!

Nice to see so many posts, though less nice to see a lot are from the same users.
I’ll state it again in case it wasn’t clear enough in the video, and it really should have been:
GW2 should NOT be a WoW clone. However it could stand to emulate many aspects of WoW while still being GW2.
Marnic I keep seeing the word ‘hardcore’ pop up in your posts. I don’t recall using that word once in the video. Just because I want gameplay that requires more than cow clicking levels of difficulty I’m a hardcore player?
But Marnick, you are probably right. We proabably are a mintorty as anyone seeking any form of challenge in GW2 has probably moved on to other games as you implied. Those are potential customers Anet could be bringing to their game. Why forsake them when they can cater to both crowds?
Oh, and a big congratualtions to Aden Celeste.3650 for being the first fanboi who’s knee-jerk reaction to the threads title prevented him from reading the first line of the post.

whoaaa there WoW fan boy

if you like wow so much your free to go back there but some of us have absolutely no
no desire to play that game….btw i could argue that wow has taken alot of its ideas from the game runescape or perfect world or many of the much older rpg series out there

you dont seem to understand the idea of living story..ill explain it too you….its just like real life where if you miss the day/week where the event/party is happening well your kitten out of luck gess what…just like the living story…thats what makes it living

what do you call a series of things you do to achieve something…i call them tasks yes i preform a series of tasks to unlock an achievement. you stating you have achievement ocd basically tells me you do things you dont like all the time and sense you do them you then feel the need to whine about how there not like you think they should be….here is an idea..if you dont like them..dont do them..yes i know hard to believe you dont actually have to do things you dont like…

i didnt even bother to listen to over half of it because well your just rambling on about WoW and how you think its great but figured it point out some things that just made no sense at all

I’ll admit to enjoying PvP more in WoW (which isn’t even a part of the discussion), but I don’t remember getting any new content without buying an expansion…unless you count unlocking access to more raids as new content, which is still pretty slight and only relevant to a small percentage of the player base. Otherwise nothing was really added from one month to the next. Back then, I had no basis for comparison and since EQ also had a monthly fee, I took it for granted as par for the course.

With all the content GW2 has been adding for free every month or so, I feel even worse about giving Blizzard so much money for the mere privilege of playing a game I already bought (not to mention the time wasted on raiding). Yeah, a lot of the new content has been temporary but it’s the sort of thing many players were expecting when they heard about dynamic content. I think there’s a nice mix between one time, recurrent and static content to help the world feel more alive.

The permanent content is being sprinkled in here or there, and I’m starting to wonder if expansions will even be a part of their business model or if the cash shop alone will subsidize ongoing content updates.

I agree on clearer patch notes, though. Skill and trait descriptions also need to be more specific.

ok i will say this i have been known to stand in LA becuase there is nothing epic to do. i stand in LA and tell players i am a Vet player. Im a die hard fan boy from Gw1 im a commander for HoD. i will state these facts about the game

1. Why Fix content if they can release new one time content?
2. Why cater to the Casual and egnore Hard core dedicated gammers. by Egnoring Dedicated gammers you shut down Micro transactions. its a simple math, No new Challanging content = No hard coreplayers no hard core players= no Micro transactions. no Micro transactions= No game!
3. having a precurser you be come richer than most of the average players let me explane this one the most gold i have had was 200 gold. if you get dusk you instantly have 500 gold. what will you do with that gold?? some players will just stop playing as there is not really a goal now.
4. STOP THE CLASS NURFFS!!!!!!! this is most true with PvE
5. give us the UW as a End game Explorable ever changing world that is dedicated to hard core. and give us back Super adventure box. this will cater to both casual and hardcore
6. Make the Elder Dragons known cause nothing says im gonna kill your home and family more than Jor breaker making a visit to Holebreak or any other major city.
7. balance Risk=Reward

and yes Kaaboose i wached your video and who knows maybe Anet and NcSoft will listen to the players that play their games. and i agree with you. let players beta test new content. cause its basally free labor and you can always put a non dis closer agreement. so its a win win the content gets patched and everyone’s happy.

I cant say i disagree, i love GW2 and what Anet did but… i enjoyed it more during the beta or just after release i mean an ettin meant business it used to be if you’re not careful you got slaughtered just in the open world not hard just.. if you wasn’t paying attention but now i can mindlessly slaughter whatever i come near but i can understand not having it intense everywhere in the world because that becomes a strain but still

I stopped playing for a good while due to the fact that it felt like after you got to a certain level of skill there wasn’t anywhere for you to go you only needed a certain point to complete all the explorables all that was left after that was.. well lets try and do it faster?
i came back to check out what changed and i’ve been enjoying seeing the dragonbash story and playing in the dragonball area but as far as PvE goes.. well i dont feel very inclined at all i think the explorables should have stayed as challenging as people felt they were at the start just to be rewarding for that amount of challenge (but anet ended up dumbing them down and making it more rewarding.. heh)

I agree there should be some harder content asin content that would end up getting announced for whoever killed the final boss first something really difficult to aim for, while also having all this other content (or the content involved before the really hard bosses) is something for the casuals to do but because of this lack of challenge i’ve ended up just being a casual player on GW2 going off and on.

in my opinion wow went downhill whit every expansion. I liked the original and first expansion the best. GW need to go its own but some ideas are universal and should be not trow away just because some one else has it to.

I think GW2 can take alot form alot of games not just WoW. I mean i love the combat and pvp/wvwvw in GW2 but hate the PVE. Games like Rift that have great open world pve not just dungeons/raids, if open world world pve was like Rift it would be 10x better imo.Example- world boss’s were random, zone wide events that scaled properly that had great loot(not just a daily chest)and the boss only spawned after you defeated the main assault(Simular to rifts).I also think think GW2 can take or go back to its old skill system from GW1. GW2’s skill system imo is very restrictive to the point its pretty boring.As for dungeons and raids im open to the the idea of content that requires more then 5 players to complete but the reward should be no better then anyother content other then maybe a few unique skins etc.As for temp content the really need to focus on their core game and andding things that will inporve the game in the long run not just 2 weeks of content at a time.All of this is just my opinion but i do agree with most of what the OP has said.

Ok marnick, i played today 30min. I want to do more on kitten holding down the autoattack and do the dishes while iam at it. If you think this is hard please stop playing games. If we the “hardcore” group who wants to do more than pressing 1 and standing still, you must out of your mind. We want to say harder content we have to move a little click on a skill who protects us have a little social teamwork going on. Doesnt mean hardcore must invest 100plus hours to learn that fight. But i guess you dont wanna know from another casual gamer. I dont buy rng stuff either. Bring in some harder content in with fights you gottha think a little. I can see the frustration with people when only dps isneeded. We need a little tactics. Living story should never be the main core of the game but something extra you can do.

World of Warcraft represents the classic MMO formula. I found this formula to be highly punitive towards it’s own customer base. Considering the vast amounts of people with the same snotty, impatient, and hostile attitude I sometime wonder how this genre still exists.

ANet took deliberate steps to remove as many of the elements of the classic formula that caused so much anger. If you want to use World of Warcraft as a reference for anything its what not to do.

Terrin.2685:

World of Warcraft represents the classic MMO formula. I found this formula to be highly punitive towards it’s own customer base. Considering the vast amounts of people with the same snotty, impatient, and hostile attitude I sometime wonder how this genre still exists.

ANet took deliberate steps to remove as many of the elements of the classic formula that caused so much anger. If you want to use World of Warcraft as a reference for anything its what not to do.

So we should make GW2 a single player game then right?

I was going to listen to the whole video, but when you basically said “either you agree with me or you have your head up Arenanet kitten ” I decided you were not worth my time.

I don’t really want more infractions, but go s Blizz d.

Wolfheart.1938:

I was going to listen to the whole video, but when you basically said "either you agree with me or you have your head up Arenanet kitten I decided you were not worth my time.

I don’t really want more infractions, but go s Blizz d.

No, I said if you agree with me and still type a genric “GW2 is not ment to be like WoW” comment then you have your head up Anet kitten . Maybe if you took your head out of there for a moment you’d hear that?

“Stop focusing on temporary content and put in some permanent stuff” I didn’t watch the whole video but this line is what’s hammering the nail in the coffin for me.

I’m a completionist when it comes to events, however since this is a game where players are meant to have fun, I like to take my pace with the game. The Living Story can make some players feel in a rush and if they don’t finish everything by end the of the event they will be left with a broken event line.

Living Stories to me are nothing but a mask to generate profit from this game. Create content just to remove it a few weeks later, leave players that didn’t play much with a broken quest line, introduce the event’s “special” RNG box, rinse and repeat.

I used to collect the minipets from these events but after this dragon bash mess and the moa money sink I stopped caring entirely about them and soon I’ll be leaving the game cause there’s nothing to do. I spend 80% of my time in LA chatting.

A few other things I’d like to point out is I’ve played GW1 for 7 years almost non stop and I’ve amassed 22.5k hours and almost finished my 3rd GWAMM. In GW2 I don’t even have half the excitement and willingness to play as I had for GW1. There were no RNG boxes, no temporary events except halloween, christmas etc.

I remember Sorrow’s Furnace was full with players for months and Domain of Anguish kept people coming for a long time too and then when the game was coming to an end there was Hearts of the North, War in Kryta and the Winds of Change that resembled living stories of GW2 except that in GW1 they’re STILL there.

To make it short, ANet needs to go a little back to their roots and what made them popular and successful in the first place. To my eyes GW2 has turned into a money cow and it is no better than one of those F2P Asian MMOS.