Guild Wars 2

Its a stupid mechanic which should have no place in competive pvp modus. Remove it.

Especially finishers shouldnt work while in stealth.

Let’s say I accept your argument (though you forgot to tell us why it should be removed). Please suggest some new traits/skills that replace the current ones associated with the stealth mechanic.

How about better tactics and skills to detect players using stealth are near you.

Is anyone else getting tired of this “blame the victim” mob mentality that the people against stealth portray?

Get rid of stealth because I die to much from it. How about you just learn how to adapt…. Having to fight illusions is really annoying, getting portal bombed is really annoying, 15k crit warriors with 20k+ life is annoying, but we all just deal with it.

Stealth is OK atm. Though, I wish it would work more like it does in Tribes Ascend. WHen you’re in stealth, you’re completely invisible, as it is right now. BUT, when you attain some aoe dmg, the invisibility get blurred, making you slightly visible.

I’d also like to see longer stealth cooldowns before being able to use next stealth skill again.

Last one might be a bit of a overkill.

i don’t play a thief, although i do agree it needs tweaking , like making it like with rogues in World of Warcraft where they get to close they can be seen. if anything it would give ppl a chance which would be appreciated. with mesmers you just gotta be paying attention and watch .. its like that game with the 3 cups and the marble or whatever you put under it.

One word:

No.

Air.6452:

Is anyone else getting tired of this “blame the victim” mob mentality that the people against stealth portray?

Get rid of stealth because I die to much from it. How about you just learn how to adapt…. Having to fight illusions is really annoying, getting portal bombed is really annoying, 15k crit warriors with 20k+ life is annoying, but we all just deal with it.

Agreed.

I have no problem with fighting people in stealth. I kill thieves while they’re in stealth all the time because I’ve played enough pvp to be able to predict what they will try and hit them anyway.

How about no.

Just no.

I’m not even a thief, nope.

“Fix” maybe, but remove?

No.

Air.6452:

Is anyone else getting tired of this “blame the victim” mob mentality that the people against stealth portray?

So culling abusing thieves are victims now?
Nice bizarro world you got there.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Air.6452:

Is anyone else getting tired of this “blame the victim” mob mentality that the people against stealth portray?

So culling abusing thieves are victims now?
Nice bizarro world you got there.

I would say you living in a much more bizarro world.
Because this thread is not about fixing cullin or anything like that.
It about just removing stealth all together.
So that guys comment was towards that.

Plus not all theifs abuse it.

You guys do realise that most thieves most of the time are spending 1/4 second in stealth because they’re only activating it to use their ambush attacks right? Also if they are spending a lot of time in stealth to stall or w/e it really benefits you just as much because your cooldowns are ticking down while they aren’t attacking you.

The only reasonable nerf I could see being made to stealth is to make the ambushes break stealth regardless of whether they cause damage, since it’s pretty silly that you can blow a backstab on aegis and just have another go.

Oh look, another person saying “It’s not balanced, so remove it. PLEASE don’t attempt to fix/balance it.”

For the record, I don’t have a thief (unless a mule counts) and I haven’t found stealth to be so OP that it’s beyond balancing when playing in PvP.

Air.6452:

Is anyone else getting tired of this “blame the victim” mob mentality that the people against stealth portray?

Get rid of stealth because I die to much from it. How about you just learn how to adapt…. Having to fight illusions is really annoying, getting portal bombed is really annoying, 15k crit warriors with 20k+ life is annoying, but we all just deal with it.

Honestly you complain about a warrior ? immobilize,cripple cripple cripple kite kite…no matter how much dmg they deal,warriors are WAY easier to catch and to predict their movements then a thief will ever be.

Malediktus.9250:

Its a stupid mechanic which should have no place in competive pvp modus. Remove it.

Especially finishers shouldnt work while in stealth.

Your well constructed argument has made me a believer. I now agree that stealth should be removed for the vast and convincing arguments listed by you.

This isn’t PVP related. I say when you’re PvE, stealth should be transparent. You should be able to see others when you’re PvE. How am I supposed to report Bots when 100% of them use Stealth. I’m not fast enough to try and type their name down before they disappear. I’m more often than not busy fighting or something when they pop up at a node.

Stealth is just as much of a benefit to the person fighting as it is to the thieve. If a thieve is using it to get a quick advantage then he is not in it long. Most GC builds only use Stealth for a second or two anyhow. If in that 5 to 8 second window they can’t kill you then they run and have to wait for CD’s, which means you have time to heal and your CD’s are also recharging.

If he is a stealth build then as someone else stated you have time to heal and recharge CD’s. 98% of Stealth builds are low to medium damage, they are meant to annoy and hold off points till others could get there. You can’t take big hits but you can avoid people and make capping a point near impossible.

Also I love how people come on and ask for nerfs and removals, all because of PvP. Then never once stop to think of how it would affect PvE. So many games have nerfed skills and abilities because of PvP with no regards to PvE, which in tales screws over PvE.

I do like the idea of a shimmer if caught in a AoE ( this coming from a person that plays a Stealth build Thieve), although my only addition to this would be even though they shimmer they are still not targatable . I could be fine with this, as it doesn’t cripple the thieve players but only gives us a lil more of a challenge.

Although I would love to see Arena Net fix this, not sure if it is like this in SPvP but in the Holiday PvP my friend in the same group as me was on the red team I blue, I hit stealth from the dps selection and I was a translucent white haze to him, for future Holiday events you should probably fix this Arena Net lol.

Kaimick.5109:

Stealth is just as much of a benefit to the person fighting as it is to the thieve. If a thieve is using it to get a quick advantage then he is not in it long. Most GC builds only use Stealth for a second or two anyhow. If in that 5 to 8 second window they can’t kill you then they run and have to wait for CD’s, which means you have time to heal and your CD’s are also recharging.

If he is a stealth build then as someone else stated you have time to heal and recharge CD’s. 98% of Stealth builds are low to medium damage, they are meant to annoy and hold off points till others could get there. You can’t take big hits but you can avoid people and make capping a point near impossible.

Also I love how people come on and ask for nerfs and removals, all because of PvP. Then never once stop to think of how it would affect PvE. So many games have nerfed skills and abilities because of PvP with no regards to PvE, which in tales screws over PvE.

I do like the idea of a shimmer if caught in a AoE ( this coming from a person that plays a Stealth build Thieve), although my only addition to this would be even though they shimmer they are still not targatable . I could be fine with this, as it doesn’t cripple the thieve players but only gives us a lil more of a challenge.

Although I would love to see Arena Net fix this, not sure if it is like this in SPvP but in the Holiday PvP my friend in the same group as me was on the red team I blue, I hit stealth from the dps selection and I was a translucent white haze to him, for future Holiday events you should probably fix this Arena Net lol.

You sir get a +1

Evogelion.3879:

This isn’t PVP related. I say when you’re PvE, stealth should be transparent. You should be able to see others when you’re PvE. How am I supposed to report Bots when 100% of them use Stealth. I’m not fast enough to try and type their name down before they disappear. I’m more often than not busy fighting or something when they pop up at a node.

You CAN see other players that are stealthed in PvE.
If you see someone suddenly disappear that means that they logged out or changed positions. If you suspect it’s a bot then it probably used a map hack to go somewhere else.

Soeki.9643:

Let’s say I accept your argument (though you forgot to tell us why it should be removed). Please suggest some new traits/skills that replace the current ones associated with the stealth mechanic.

Here you go, just port these over: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_assassin_skills

Take a look at what all your thief skills were before they were WoWified.

And you realize one of the profession QQ’ed about the most in GW1 was the assassins. Here is the thing no matter what is done someone will cry OP and then want a nerf.

Maybe that’s because burst and high mobility are among the most important things in a pvp setting, and both the thief and assassin got both of them.

Oh this brings me back to the days of early Dark souls. people crying for the fog ring to be removed. and let me tell you, Fog ring was OP. In a game like Guild wars 2, stealth is only a minor annoyance, it doesn’t completely negate a core game mechanic.

I have a thief, only lvl 9 so I have no idea how Traits really effect anything yet, but I do know that my only use for stealth is for ambush attacks, meaning as others have said. I would be in stealth for maybe a second just to get a backstab.

Kaimick.5109:

And you realize one of the profession QQ’ed about the most in GW1 was the assassins. Here is the thing no matter what is done someone will cry OP and then want a nerf.

This particular QQ is about stealth and the assassin didn’t have stealth. It also shows that the thief doesn’t need stealth to be effective (as the assassin was very effective), which is contrary to the people who will defend thieves to the death and say the class will be completely useless without stealth. The whole mentality that you need to have a stealth class in an RPG for it to be complete is stupid.

Kaimick.5109:

Also I love how people come on and ask for nerfs and removals, all because of PvP. Then never once stop to think of how it would affect PvE. So many games have nerfed skills and abilities because of PvP with no regards to PvE, which in tales screws over PvE.

+100 just go look at engineers pve right now, all updates have been nerfs all to balance pvp.

between nerfs for “balance” and bugs and poor downed state utility designs pve is broken entirely.

I play a thief pve, trust me we need more stealth not less, and it needs fixing in pve.

you should be happy that stealth is limited in this game…

they could have made it like rift, wow and many other MMOs where you can stealth for as long as you want…

then again the thief in this game needs longer stealth to match the type of character it is…there should be a trait to extend duration.

Being able to finish from stealth needs to be removed from the game- it would be funny then to watch downed players kill thiefs who try to finish them with their glass cannon ’i’m so leet 1 second your downed build go QQ more’ builds and might encourage them to try something that needs a bit more skill- like pistols, had a great battle against one yesterday and although I lost (skritt came along and attacked me…) it felt like a real battle not a ‘instastab’.

Caedmon.6798:

Air.6452:

Is anyone else getting tired of this “blame the victim” mob mentality that the people against stealth portray?

Get rid of stealth because I die to much from it. How about you just learn how to adapt…. Having to fight illusions is really annoying, getting portal bombed is really annoying, 15k crit warriors with 20k+ life is annoying, but we all just deal with it.

Honestly you complain about a warrior ? immobilize,cripple cripple cripple kite kite…no matter how much dmg they deal,warriors are WAY easier to catch and to predict their movements then a thief will ever be.

You are missing the point, my point was that there are lots of aspects that are annoying, but there is no point in complaining about them. They are in place to offer advantages in different situations.

Stealth is a thief’s advantage.

Waffler.1257:

Kaimick.5109:

And you realize one of the profession QQ’ed about the most in GW1 was the assassins. Here is the thing no matter what is done someone will cry OP and then want a nerf.

This particular QQ is about stealth and the assassin didn’t have stealth. It also shows that the thief doesn’t need stealth to be effective (as the assassin was very effective), which is contrary to the people who will defend thieves to the death and say the class will be completely useless without stealth. The whole mentality that you need to have a stealth class in an RPG for it to be complete is stupid.

Waffer your not getting the point are you. OK we remove stealth from the game and essentially make them just like Sin’s form GW. Now you and all your friends are going to be making threads sayign NERF the THIEVE he does to much damage and he is OP. Cause that is all we heard in GW about the Sin’s.

And yes you remove stealth from the thieve as it stands now they are useless, if you remove stealth and increase their damage they are not but the QQing continues. Trust me, you obviously never played against a sin in GW, the thieve is way more balanced than the Sin’s ever were.

The whole mentality that you need to have a stealth class in an RPG for it to be complete is stupid.

This is your opinion not everyone’s and obviously form the retort your getting on this thread alone the majority do not have a problem with the mechanic. Let me give you an example of how these threads usually start
Playing in Spvp:
Caped a point: thieve comes rolls my face and leaves never saw him coming
rage for a bit continue playing
after a few more deaths the same thieve rolls me again
rage more and complain that the only reason why the thieve is rolling you is stealth
New game
Get rolled by a thieve
rage and start saying he is garbage cause he has to use stealth
Get rolled again cause now you offended the thieve player
Rage harder
Match ends leave game and exit to desktop
Open Chrome type in GW2 forum website
Create a new thread NERF STEALTH IT IS BROKEN or REMOVE STEALTH IT IS BROKEN.
QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ

What a good player does:
starts match gets rolled
WTF just happen that is BS rage a lil
Happens 3 more time
OK KITTEN THIS
Whisper player
Dude what spec are you using you are rocking me and I am not going to lie i am getting frustrated as hell?
Whisper responds get spec
Log out make a thieve take him into pvp
Spec and learn build
Play the build for a few hours get it down
delete character go back to previous character
Runs into thieve, doesn’t get rolled and survives, but dies every so often now
Thieve player whispers you
What did you do you got a lot better in a few hours great job.
Your response
Just figured out how to work around thieves and how they worked is all, nice fights though man

You notice the difference there, the good players are learning the classes and finding out how they work, the bad players are just being lazy and asking for a nerf
good day sir

You ran right into the reason WHY the rogue class is a terrible idea, Kaimick.
They’re perpetually on a knife’s edge between worthless and OP because their class defining capabilities are high burst and low survivability.
Either they burst well, kill their target, and their low survivability doesn’t matter, or their burst fails and they get ground into dust because of no survivability.
Changing their capabilities even slightly is capable of throwing them from one end of the spectrum to the other.
And yet every developer tries to put one in a game, for some reason, despite no one ever succeeding in finding a middle ground for the class.

Well as you put it they are worthless so why cry about them?

They aren’t OP as so many people never have issues with them due to the fact they know how the profession works.

Just cause a player has the knowledge of how the profession works doesn’t make them worthless. Just because a player knows how the class works doesn’t mean they will never ever get killed by that profession.

really people..? stop crying over it i agree with one post people got to know there class and work it well yeah i get killed to just like the rest of us If some get easy raged over stuff in pvping then pvping poly not for u then

greeter.8267:

really people..? stop crying over it i agree with one post people got to know there class and work it well yeah i get killed to just like the rest of us If some get easy raged over stuff in pvping then pvping poly not for u then

+1 +1 +1 +1 see someone actually gets it

Kaimick.5109:

Waffler.1257:

Kaimick.5109:

And you realize one of the profession QQ’ed about the most in GW1 was the assassins. Here is the thing no matter what is done someone will cry OP and then want a nerf.

This particular QQ is about stealth and the assassin didn’t have stealth. It also shows that the thief doesn’t need stealth to be effective (as the assassin was very effective), which is contrary to the people who will defend thieves to the death and say the class will be completely useless without stealth. The whole mentality that you need to have a stealth class in an RPG for it to be complete is stupid.

Waffer your not getting the point are you. OK we remove stealth from the game and essentially make them just like Sin’s form GW. Now you and all your friends are going to be making threads sayign NERF the THIEVE he does to much damage and he is OP. Cause that is all we heard in GW about the Sin’s.

And yes you remove stealth from the thieve as it stands now they are useless, if you remove stealth and increase their damage they are not but the QQing continues. Trust me, you obviously never played against a sin in GW, the thieve is way more balanced than the Sin’s ever were.

The whole mentality that you need to have a stealth class in an RPG for it to be complete is stupid.

This is your opinion not everyone’s and obviously form the retort your getting on this thread alone the majority do not have a problem with the mechanic. Let me give you an example of how these threads usually start
Playing in Spvp:
Caped a point: thieve comes rolls my face and leaves never saw him coming
rage for a bit continue playing
after a few more deaths the same thieve rolls me again
rage more and complain that the only reason why the thieve is rolling you is stealth
New game
Get rolled by a thieve
rage and start saying he is garbage cause he has to use stealth
Get rolled again cause now you offended the thieve player
Rage harder
Match ends leave game and exit to desktop
Open Chrome type in GW2 forum website
Create a new thread NERF STEALTH IT IS BROKEN or REMOVE STEALTH IT IS BROKEN.
QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ

What a good player does:
starts match gets rolled
WTF just happen that is BS rage a lil
Happens 3 more time
OK KITTEN THIS
Whisper player
Dude what spec are you using you are rocking me and I am not going to lie i am getting frustrated as hell?
Whisper responds get spec
Log out make a thieve take him into pvp
Spec and learn build
Play the build for a few hours get it down
delete character go back to previous character
Runs into thieve, doesn’t get rolled and survives, but dies every so often now
Thieve player whispers you
What did you do you got a lot better in a few hours great job.
Your response
Just figured out how to work around thieves and how they worked is all, nice fights though man

You notice the difference there, the good players are learning the classes and finding out how they work, the bad players are just being lazy and asking for a nerf
good day sir

Well you certainly sound like a sad little kitten, I didn’t even bother to finish reading the rest of your post as it looked like a dog vomited on my screen. You seem to be under the impression that I made this thread, if you are then scroll to the top and try reading the name of the poster. I have never made a thread asking for thieves to be nerfed and I don’t get owned by thieves in PvP. I do think the stealth mechanic is stupid because it introduces a LOT of guessing into the game when it comes to fighting thieves, and a game based on guessing and getting lucky is not competitive. I’ll leave it at that since it sounds like you are one of the many thief fanatics who can’t be reasoned with.

Soeki.9643:

Let’s say I accept your argument (though you forgot to tell us why it should be removed). Please suggest some new traits/skills that replace the current ones associated with the stealth mechanic.

thieves in AION can stealth and are quick killers without havin to pop stealth every 4 sec… so it can be done properly

Waffler.1257:

Kaimick.5109:

Waffler.1257:

Kaimick.5109:

And you realize one of the profession QQ’ed about the most in GW1 was the assassins. Here is the thing no matter what is done someone will cry OP and then want a nerf.

This particular QQ is about stealth and the assassin didn’t have stealth. It also shows that the thief doesn’t need stealth to be effective (as the assassin was very effective), which is contrary to the people who will defend thieves to the death and say the class will be completely useless without stealth. The whole mentality that you need to have a stealth class in an RPG for it to be complete is stupid.

Waffer your not getting the point are you. OK we remove stealth from the game and essentially make them just like Sin’s form GW. Now you and all your friends are going to be making threads sayign NERF the THIEVE he does to much damage and he is OP. Cause that is all we heard in GW about the Sin’s.

And yes you remove stealth from the thieve as it stands now they are useless, if you remove stealth and increase their damage they are not but the QQing continues. Trust me, you obviously never played against a sin in GW, the thieve is way more balanced than the Sin’s ever were.

The whole mentality that you need to have a stealth class in an RPG for it to be complete is stupid.

This is your opinion not everyone’s and obviously form the retort your getting on this thread alone the majority do not have a problem with the mechanic. Let me give you an example of how these threads usually start
Playing in Spvp:
Caped a point: thieve comes rolls my face and leaves never saw him coming
rage for a bit continue playing
after a few more deaths the same thieve rolls me again
rage more and complain that the only reason why the thieve is rolling you is stealth
New game
Get rolled by a thieve
rage and start saying he is garbage cause he has to use stealth
Get rolled again cause now you offended the thieve player
Rage harder
Match ends leave game and exit to desktop
Open Chrome type in GW2 forum website
Create a new thread NERF STEALTH IT IS BROKEN or REMOVE STEALTH IT IS BROKEN.
QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ

What a good player does:
starts match gets rolled
WTF just happen that is BS rage a lil
Happens 3 more time
OK KITTEN THIS
Whisper player
Dude what spec are you using you are rocking me and I am not going to lie i am getting frustrated as hell?
Whisper responds get spec
Log out make a thieve take him into pvp
Spec and learn build
Play the build for a few hours get it down
delete character go back to previous character
Runs into thieve, doesn’t get rolled and survives, but dies every so often now
Thieve player whispers you
What did you do you got a lot better in a few hours great job.
Your response
Just figured out how to work around thieves and how they worked is all, nice fights though man

You notice the difference there, the good players are learning the classes and finding out how they work, the bad players are just being lazy and asking for a nerf
good day sir

Well you certainly sound like a sad little kitten, I didn’t even bother to finish reading the rest of your post as it looked like a dog vomited on my screen. You seem to be under the impression that I made this thread, if you are then scroll to the top and try reading the name of the poster. I have never made a thread asking for thieves to be nerfed and I don’t get owned by thieves in PvP. I do think the stealth mechanic is stupid because it introduces a LOT of guessing into the game when it comes to fighting thieves, and a game based on guessing and getting lucky is not competitive. I’ll leave it at that since it sounds like you are one of the many thief fanatics who can’t be reasoned with.

No actually the thieve is one of the professions I hardly play on thanks for assuming though, can you put that is a form of a question next time.

I never said you did start the thread, can you please show me where I said you started this thread? I will be happy to go back and edit that post.

I am simply saying with stealth thieves are fine the way they are. my original comment to you was about Sin’s and how you thought that just bring back the Sin’s and Sin’s prove a thieve can be done with out stealth. I simply implied by your comment that you had obviously never played against Sin’s before if you think that Sin’s are more balanced than Thieves are.

Kaimick.5109:

Waffler.1257:

Kaimick.5109:

And you realize one of the profession QQ’ed about the most in GW1 was the assassins. Here is the thing no matter what is done someone will cry OP and then want a nerf.

This particular QQ is about stealth and the assassin didn’t have stealth. It also shows that the thief doesn’t need stealth to be effective (as the assassin was very effective), which is contrary to the people who will defend thieves to the death and say the class will be completely useless without stealth. The whole mentality that you need to have a stealth class in an RPG for it to be complete is stupid.

Waffer your not getting the point are you. OK we remove stealth from the game and essentially make them just like Sin’s form GW. Now you and all your friends are going to be making threads sayign NERF the THIEVE he does to much damage and he is OP. Cause that is all we heard in GW about the Sin’s.

And yes you remove stealth from the thieve as it stands now they are useless, if you remove stealth and increase their damage they are not but the QQing continues. Trust me, you obviously never played against a sin in GW, the thieve is way more balanced than the Sin’s ever were.

The whole mentality that you need to have a stealth class in an RPG for it to be complete is stupid.

This is your opinion not everyone’s and obviously form the retort your getting on this thread alone the majority do not have a problem with the mechanic. Let me give you an example of how these threads usually start
Playing in Spvp:
Caped a point: thieve comes rolls my face and leaves never saw him coming
rage for a bit continue playing
after a few more deaths the same thieve rolls me again
rage more and complain that the only reason why the thieve is rolling you is stealth
New game
Get rolled by a thieve
rage and start saying he is garbage cause he has to use stealth
Get rolled again cause now you offended the thieve player
Rage harder
Match ends leave game and exit to desktop
Open Chrome type in GW2 forum website
Create a new thread NERF STEALTH IT IS BROKEN or REMOVE STEALTH IT IS BROKEN.
QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ

What a good player does:
starts match gets rolled
WTF just happen that is BS rage a lil
Happens 3 more time
OK KITTEN THIS
Whisper player
Dude what spec are you using you are rocking me and I am not going to lie i am getting frustrated as hell?
Whisper responds get spec
Log out make a thieve take him into pvp
Spec and learn build
Play the build for a few hours get it down
delete character go back to previous character
Runs into thieve, doesn’t get rolled and survives, but dies every so often now
Thieve player whispers you
What did you do you got a lot better in a few hours great job.
Your response
Just figured out how to work around thieves and how they worked is all, nice fights though man

You notice the difference there, the good players are learning the classes and finding out how they work, the bad players are just being lazy and asking for a nerf
good day sir

Wow! I’m surprised but it has happened. THIS GUY GETS IT! Others should be so lucky to learn from this example. Sadly only rage-posts are to follow, but at least a few understand how to play competitive s/tpvp or wvw properly. Job well done.

Thieves don’t need stealth. Honestly…take every stealth off your bar, ALL of them. Now go fight. I destroy people just as easily without stealth as with it. It truly and honestly is not needed. Even pve…it is not needed.

The GW1 assassin also proved they can balance things without stealth.

If stealth is so loved that people cannot concieve of a game without stealth, fine. You get hit in stealth and you become an outline/blur that is now targetable. Get rid of condition removal from stealth (the heal and the trait) to remove the griefer skills from the class. The thief should be wholly dependant upon others for their condition removal, all classes need a few crutches and this should be the thief’s lacking point, that once they get a bunch of condition stacks they have to kill the person and hope, or run.

I’m not even raging about it…as an engineer I find the flamethrower is perfectly suited to turning thieves into piles of charred flesh.

Air.6452:

Is anyone else getting tired of this “blame the victim” mob mentality that the people against stealth portray?

Get rid of stealth because I die to much from it. How about you just learn how to adapt…. Having to fight illusions is really annoying, getting portal bombed is really annoying, 15k crit warriors with 20k+ life is annoying, but we all just deal with it.

I love you and your logic. May it shine down upon those who feel the game should be tailored to them rather then the genre as a whole.

Runiir.6425:

Thieves don’t need stealth. Honestly…take every stealth off your bar, ALL of them. Now go fight. I destroy people just as easily without stealth as with it. It truly and honestly is not needed. Even pve…it is not needed.

The GW1 assassin also proved they can balance things without stealth.

If stealth is so loved that people cannot concieve of a game without stealth, fine. You get hit in stealth and you become an outline/blur that is now targetable. Get rid of condition removal from stealth (the heal and the trait) to remove the griefer skills from the class. The thief should be wholly dependant upon others for their condition removal, all classes need a few crutches and this should be the thief’s lacking point, that once they get a bunch of condition stacks they have to kill the person and hope, or run.

I’m not even raging about it…as an engineer I find the flamethrower is perfectly suited to turning thieves into piles of charred flesh.

So the thief loses stealth, condition removal, regen healing, and still has the lowest health pool? What’s with the want to nerf thieves to the point no one will play one?

The only thing I agree with in this whole post is….. Finishers shouldn’t be allowed in stealth….

urinfamousr.7631:

Soeki.9643:

Let’s say I accept your argument (though you forgot to tell us why it should be removed). Please suggest some new traits/skills that replace the current ones associated with the stealth mechanic.

thieves in AION can stealth and are quick killers without havin to pop stealth every 4 sec… so it can be done properly

Well I’m glad we’re playing AION and every thief plays their class with the same exact cookie cutter build…oh wait. Maybe use a successful MMO for a comparison, not one that crashed and burned within months of being introduced to the real MMO market.

Raine Akrune.8416:

Runiir.6425:

Thieves don’t need stealth. Honestly…take every stealth off your bar, ALL of them. Now go fight. I destroy people just as easily without stealth as with it. It truly and honestly is not needed. Even pve…it is not needed.

The GW1 assassin also proved they can balance things without stealth.

If stealth is so loved that people cannot concieve of a game without stealth, fine. You get hit in stealth and you become an outline/blur that is now targetable. Get rid of condition removal from stealth (the heal and the trait) to remove the griefer skills from the class. The thief should be wholly dependant upon others for their condition removal, all classes need a few crutches and this should be the thief’s lacking point, that once they get a bunch of condition stacks they have to kill the person and hope, or run.

I’m not even raging about it…as an engineer I find the flamethrower is perfectly suited to turning thieves into piles of charred flesh.

So the thief loses stealth, condition removal, regen healing, and still has the lowest health pool? What’s with the want to nerf thieves to the point no one will play one?

People would still play them.
I would still play mine.

They are thieves, they should be totaly reliant on others for condition removal, there is no reasonf or them to be able to do it. They are thieves, stealing what they can. You NEED condition removal? Make a trait so you remove a single condition when you successfully steal from something then.

Go to GW1 and play assassins ometime…it’s a thief without stealth. You don’t need it to be successful, already in GW2 the thief class is fine without stealth (yes you can build to not have stealth).

Runiir.6425:

Raine Akrune.8416:

Runiir.6425:

Thieves don’t need stealth. Honestly…take every stealth off your bar, ALL of them. Now go fight. I destroy people just as easily without stealth as with it. It truly and honestly is not needed. Even pve…it is not needed.

The GW1 assassin also proved they can balance things without stealth.

If stealth is so loved that people cannot concieve of a game without stealth, fine. You get hit in stealth and you become an outline/blur that is now targetable. Get rid of condition removal from stealth (the heal and the trait) to remove the griefer skills from the class. The thief should be wholly dependant upon others for their condition removal, all classes need a few crutches and this should be the thief’s lacking point, that once they get a bunch of condition stacks they have to kill the person and hope, or run.

I’m not even raging about it…as an engineer I find the flamethrower is perfectly suited to turning thieves into piles of charred flesh.

So the thief loses stealth, condition removal, regen healing, and still has the lowest health pool? What’s with the want to nerf thieves to the point no one will play one?

People would still play them.
I would still play mine.

They are thieves, they should be totaly reliant on others for condition removal, there is no reasonf or them to be able to do it. They are thieves, stealing what they can. You NEED condition removal? Make a trait so you remove a single condition when you successfully steal from something then.

Go to GW1 and play assassins ometime…it’s a thief without stealth. You don’t need it to be successful, already in GW2 the thief class is fine without stealth (yes you can build to not have stealth).

I played GW1 and I have a Sin. I found the class to be over powered and boring since an Assassin should strike without warning. Instead I’m just running around in plain view. If you want to talk naming semantics then lets ask ANet to switch the names between the two games. My thief will be known as an assassin and the question of it’s ability to use stealth will be over.

My thief is not built for multiple stealths, I only have my main and SR as a group stealth. If you want to complain about a thief being able to move in and out of stealth then look at the extra options that allow it rather then the core mechanics the class is built on. Change trait abilities or weapon skills, not something that’s constant across our class like our main stealth.

Raine Akrune.8416:

Runiir.6425:

Raine Akrune.8416:

Runiir.6425:

Thieves don’t need stealth. Honestly…take every stealth off your bar, ALL of them. Now go fight. I destroy people just as easily without stealth as with it. It truly and honestly is not needed. Even pve…it is not needed.

The GW1 assassin also proved they can balance things without stealth.

If stealth is so loved that people cannot concieve of a game without stealth, fine. You get hit in stealth and you become an outline/blur that is now targetable. Get rid of condition removal from stealth (the heal and the trait) to remove the griefer skills from the class. The thief should be wholly dependant upon others for their condition removal, all classes need a few crutches and this should be the thief’s lacking point, that once they get a bunch of condition stacks they have to kill the person and hope, or run.

I’m not even raging about it…as an engineer I find the flamethrower is perfectly suited to turning thieves into piles of charred flesh.

So the thief loses stealth, condition removal, regen healing, and still has the lowest health pool? What’s with the want to nerf thieves to the point no one will play one?

People would still play them.
I would still play mine.

They are thieves, they should be totaly reliant on others for condition removal, there is no reasonf or them to be able to do it. They are thieves, stealing what they can. You NEED condition removal? Make a trait so you remove a single condition when you successfully steal from something then.

Go to GW1 and play assassins ometime…it’s a thief without stealth. You don’t need it to be successful, already in GW2 the thief class is fine without stealth (yes you can build to not have stealth).

I played GW1 and I have a Sin. I found the class to be over powered and boring since an Assassin should strike without warning. Instead I’m just running around in plain view. If you want to talk naming semantics then lets ask ANet to switch the names between the two games. My thief will be known as an assassin and the question of it’s ability to use stealth will be over.

My thief is not built for multiple stealths, I only have my main and SR as a group stealth. If you want to complain about a thief being able to move in and out of stealth then look at the extra options that allow it rather then the core mechanics the class is built on. Change trait abilities or weapon skills, not something that’s constant across our class like our main stealth.

Stealth is not the CORE mechanic of the thief.
Initiative and the ability to steal a skill from an enemy are the CORE of the class. Stealth is just a tak-on. It is easily removed or replaced without altering the core of the class.

Runiir.6425:

Raine Akrune.8416:

Runiir.6425:

Raine Akrune.8416:

Runiir.6425:

Thieves don’t need stealth. Honestly…take every stealth off your bar, ALL of them. Now go fight. I destroy people just as easily without stealth as with it. It truly and honestly is not needed. Even pve…it is not needed.

The GW1 assassin also proved they can balance things without stealth.

If stealth is so loved that people cannot concieve of a game without stealth, fine. You get hit in stealth and you become an outline/blur that is now targetable. Get rid of condition removal from stealth (the heal and the trait) to remove the griefer skills from the class. The thief should be wholly dependant upon others for their condition removal, all classes need a few crutches and this should be the thief’s lacking point, that once they get a bunch of condition stacks they have to kill the person and hope, or run.

I’m not even raging about it…as an engineer I find the flamethrower is perfectly suited to turning thieves into piles of charred flesh.

So the thief loses stealth, condition removal, regen healing, and still has the lowest health pool? What’s with the want to nerf thieves to the point no one will play one?

People would still play them.
I would still play mine.

They are thieves, they should be totaly reliant on others for condition removal, there is no reasonf or them to be able to do it. They are thieves, stealing what they can. You NEED condition removal? Make a trait so you remove a single condition when you successfully steal from something then.

Go to GW1 and play assassins ometime…it’s a thief without stealth. You don’t need it to be successful, already in GW2 the thief class is fine without stealth (yes you can build to not have stealth).

I played GW1 and I have a Sin. I found the class to be over powered and boring since an Assassin should strike without warning. Instead I’m just running around in plain view. If you want to talk naming semantics then lets ask ANet to switch the names between the two games. My thief will be known as an assassin and the question of it’s ability to use stealth will be over.

My thief is not built for multiple stealths, I only have my main and SR as a group stealth. If you want to complain about a thief being able to move in and out of stealth then look at the extra options that allow it rather then the core mechanics the class is built on. Change trait abilities or weapon skills, not something that’s constant across our class like our main stealth.

Stealth is not the CORE mechanic of the thief.
Initiative and the ability to steal a skill from an enemy are the CORE of the class. Stealth is just a tak-on. It is easily removed or replaced without altering the core of the class.

And I beg to differ…

Stealth is the core mechanic for thieves to move in and out of combat on THEIR terms. Before you come at me with dodging, evade skills, and using shadow step those only break combat for the moment. Stealth is the way to remove yourself from a situation you otherwise had no ability to.

The same way mesmers play mind games with their clones a core mechanic of the thief is the mind games we play by jumping around using our stealth and shadow step abilities. Stealth IS a core mechanic.

Make them visible when hit? Just for a milisecond.

Or make his footprints visible!

Or make them appear slightly while using skills/movement/or what else.

But after one of these modifications players will be unpleased, and everything will need a balance…

HELLO!!! It’s a thief = invisible??? Rogue = invisible. So if you want to remove that ability, we can go with that line of logic and just remove everyone’s abilities in pvp and then just go around hitting each other with nerf bats - oh wait, ANet already did that to us and see how that ended up...

I love how these posts pop up, and they offer no solution that seems at all worthwhile. “just remove it, because its kitten and I can’t get around it”. Ok? So mesmer’s should no longer have clones becuase I die to often trying to find out which is the real Slim shady. Engineer’s should no longer have turrets because they are damage I don’t get. Ranger’s and necromancers shouldn’t have any summons because it is also damage I don’t get. You’re ridiculous OP. I played against stealth builds in wvw, and pvp. It’s called dodge when you see your health start dropping mad, or use AoE skills ontop or in front of you when they use shadow Refuge. Not that hard, you just fail to try anything out after rage quitting because someone out smarted you.

Best advice is to roll a thief and learn how each and every of their stealth skills work. Then you will see the tricks to them and maybe stop hating on thieves soo much.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Maybe that’s because burst and high mobility are among the most important things in a pvp setting, and both the thief and assassin got both of them.

I’m not defending this thread, just wanted to point out in GW1 there were waaaayy more counters for assassins than GW2 thieves. Just sayin.