Guild Wars 2

Yeah… out of stealth for a few secs… then try using tab or mouse click to target before they re-invis (can be done if you are lucky or the thief is bad)

DreamOfACure.4382:

This is the suggestions forums, not the complaints forums.

Yes, I know, there is no “complaints forum”.

That’s the point.

The community’s discussed this to death already.

Thieves are not to blame, the culling is. And ArenaNet has already stated that they are working on the fixes. If you really can’t tolerate it, STOP PLAYING WvW!

They are not going to nerf Thieves.

I see you are happy about that tid bit and since the community doesnt seem to matter to anet maybe you are right but again when thats all said and done all thats left is the thieves then who wants to play at all?

If you really can’t tolerate it, STOP PLAYING WvW!

The fact that 90%(rough forum and my own in-game conversations base statistic) of non thieves complain about it means exactly that we Should not tolerate it. I play a Thief myself and admit stealth is a broken concept at the present.

Shrilly.7184:

I see you are happy about that tid bit and since the community doesnt seem to matter to anet maybe you are right but again when thats all said and done all thats left is the thieves then who wants to play at all?

I see you slandering ArenaNet when you can’t have what you want and using hyperbole to make it seem like you have a point when you don’t.

ArenaNet does care about their community, they’ve said what they have to say and those of us who understand game-design know they’re working on it.

If you can’t take comfort in that, you only have your subjective opinion to rely on.
And I speak from personal experience when I say that subjective opinion without professional experience only leads to paranoia and stupidity.

This thread is a product of ignorance and no longer worth my time.

I wash my hands of thee.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Shrilly.7184:

I see you are happy about that tid bit and since the community doesnt seem to matter to anet maybe you are right but again when thats all said and done all thats left is the thieves then who wants to play at all?

I see you slandering ArenaNet when you can’t have what you want and using hyperbole to make it seem like you have a point when you don’t.

ArenaNet does care about their community, they’ve said what they have to say and those of us who understand game-design know they’re working on it.

If you can’t take comfort in that, you only have your subjective opinion to rely on.
And I speak from personal experience when I say that subjective opinion without professional experience only leads to paranoia and stupidity.

This thread is a product of ignorance and no longer worth my time.

I wash my hands of thee.

i wonder how many times you said that speech to these types of threads since you apparently have plenty of time to visit them all. And I am pretty sure you have no idea what your talking about. and i didnt slander arena net you said that the community has called out to right this wrong and you said anet is trying…to do something? which it hasnt yet or in any patch nor have a read said information for which, if you have, please share with the rest of us. Oh and insults won’t get you far on threads thats just my professional experience

One of the aims of the game was to make every class feel unique, but also viable and fun to play in a variety of ways. What professions have been highlighted as a falling short of this target and what crazy ways have been tried internally to spice them up?

Colin: For me, every profession actually has a lot of different variety available to it. It’s just a matter of if you enjoy that playstyle or not. So I think people look at each profession and they’ll judge it based on “Do I enjoy playing the ways of this profession offers me to play?” And so just going around the table, everybody is playing a different main for the most part. There’s no thieves or warriors here but there’s plenty of them in game. So we know those are represented. We talked about that graph that’s up on the wall. We look at that every day based on what profession people creating and it’s almost always very close to being even across all professions. That’s a really good sign, that is very, very hard to do. In Guild Wars 1 it was not even relatively close to that. It’s a big difference between viability of playstyles versus, you know, not at all. I’m actually really impressed at how generally balanced the professions are. There are certain skills or abilities that all need to get better but across the professions it’s actually pretty decent. It’s just a matter of what playstyle are you interested in. The thing that we have to improve is look at weapons sets that aren’t interesting for that profession or don’t fit the playstyle that we’ve said that profession should have and bring those up to the point that are.

Boo hoo. Permastealth is a myth by exaggerating morons, Thieves are nowhere near the majority of players and Arenanet aren’t going to accommodate people that just want free kills. Arenanet haven’t even touched stealth after thread after thread after thread of asinine whining, and interview after interview, even when pressed about the status of Thieves, there is NO mention of these “permastealth” or “instagib” or “one-shot” fairy tales needing a “fix”. What does that tell you? That you’re wrong. You were always wrong. Suck it up or play a different game if you can’t handle it. They aren’t going to do anything about it, so get over it now before you start hitting things.

You know what REALLY grinds my gears, though?

Shrilly.7184:

Either have it like WoW’s stealth where there is 1 vanish and perma stealth or have it where you were going with it where they can only be in stealth for just seconds but having both is just rediculous

This. You are so horribly misinformed that it nearly makes me cry.

Take note of the sub-forum you’re in, please. This is a SUGGESTIONS forum. Unless you actually have an INFORMED, ACCURATE grasp on what Thieves can or can’t do and actually give a balanced SUGGESTION on how to solve some ACTUAL problem, this is nothing but a QQ thread. One of HUNDREDS of QQ threads that all dissolve in to the same pile of incomprehensible drivel.

Thats an issue with server reponse, not thieves (mesmers can stealth as well). People abuse what is availible as long as it is availible (common behavior of today’s generation of gamers) so you must learn to cope. There is work being done towards this and it will be fixed in due time. Just in the next 1000000000000 years maybe their generation wont be full of 12 yr olds trying to abuse bugs to gain an unfair unitentional advantage over the opponent and maybe then we will see a normal pvp match…

Auesis.7301:

One of the aims of the game was to make every class feel unique, but also viable and fun to play in a variety of ways. What professions have been highlighted as a falling short of this target and what crazy ways have been tried internally to spice them up?

Colin: For me, every profession actually has a lot of different variety available to it. It’s just a matter of if you enjoy that playstyle or not. So I think people look at each profession and they’ll judge it based on “Do I enjoy playing the ways of this profession offers me to play?” And so just going around the table, everybody is playing a different main for the most part. There’s no thieves or warriors here but there’s plenty of them in game. So we know those are represented. We talked about that graph that’s up on the wall. We look at that every day based on what profession people creating and it’s almost always very close to being even across all professions. That’s a really good sign, that is very, very hard to do. In Guild Wars 1 it was not even relatively close to that. It’s a big difference between viability of playstyles versus, you know, not at all. I’m actually really impressed at how generally balanced the professions are. There are certain skills or abilities that all need to get better but across the professions it’s actually pretty decent. It’s just a matter of what playstyle are you interested in. The thing that we have to improve is look at weapons sets that aren’t interesting for that profession or don’t fit the playstyle that we’ve said that profession should have and bring those up to the point that are.

Boo hoo. Permastealth is a myth by exaggerating morons, Thieves are nowhere near the majority of players and Arenanet aren’t going to accommodate people that just want free kills. Arenanet haven’t even touched stealth after thread after thread after thread of asinine whining, and interview after interview, even when pressed about the status of Thieves, there is NO mention of these “permastealth” or “instagib” or “one-shot” fairy tales needing a “fix”. What does that tell you? That you’re wrong. You were always wrong. Suck it up or play a different game if you can’t handle it. They aren’t going to do anything about it, so get over it now before you start hitting things.

You know what REALLY grinds my gears, though?

Shrilly.7184:

Either have it like WoW’s stealth where there is 1 vanish and perma stealth or have it where you were going with it where they can only be in stealth for just seconds but having both is just rediculous

This. You are so horribly misinformed that it nearly makes me cry.

Take note of the sub-forum you’re in, please. This is a SUGGESTIONS forum. Unless you actually have an INFORMED, ACCURATE grasp on what Thieves can or can’t do and actually give a balanced SUGGESTION on how to solve some ACTUAL problem, this is nothing but a QQ thread. One of HUNDREDS of QQ threads that all dissolve in to the same pile of incomprehensible drivel.

You sound like a baby and pointing at my posts and calling them wrong with no facts or details behinds it only concretes that fact. so i will post videos and damage calculators since the first one wasnt good eneough for you to add to the pile that thieves are a little op right now with current mechanics i suggest you get off the soap box and try offending someone else cause you wont do it here i posted this for anet answers which you cannot provide. And no bs from Colin won’t help the case why arent more people pointing out some opness on other classes? because even a blind man can see that thieves are a little screwy right now. again watch that video and tell me if any other class can do what that man did? if you cant name a class get off my thread please. OH BTW i read your file you have a thief so of course your going to defend your character i don’t need thief elitists to comment on this thread

NinjaEd.3946:

Thats an issue with server reponse, not thieves (mesmers can stealth as well). People abuse what is availible as long as it is availible (common behavior of today’s generation of gamers) so you must learn to cope. There is work being done towards this and it will be fixed in due time. Just in the next 1000000000000 years maybe their generation wont be full of 12 yr olds trying to abuse bugs to gain an unfair unitentional advantage over the opponent and maybe then we will see a normal pvp match…

I totally agree not pointing fingers i just want to see some action done

I didn’t read every comment but honestly this is L2P problem. Some guy posted a video up there of a thief messing with a zerg. But honestly…….. That zerg was full of people who have no idea what they are doing except following a mindless zerg.

Did they just assume that once the thief disappeared that he was magically unattackable and gone? Like what a joke.

I am biased, yes, because I play a thief. At times, I have slayed 5- man groups with ease. But I have also been bested 1v1 on many occasions.

The class is not OP, the people kittening are just complaining because they are bad at this game and Anet gave them a place to complain.

@Shrilly, hey there is already a thread dedicated to the discussion of thieves and their game play under the thief profession subforum. If you are having a problem playing against thieves in wvw i highly recommend you check out the thread.

Lets keep these forums clean!

Shrilly.7184:

You sound like a baby and pointing at my posts and calling them wrong with no facts or details behinds it only concretes that fact. so i will post videos and damage calculators since the first one wasnt good eneough for you to add to the pile that thieves are a little op right now with current mechanics i suggest you get off the soap box and try offending someone else cause you wont do it here i posted this for anet answers which you cannot provide. And no bs from Colin won’t help the case why arent more people pointing out some opness on other classes? because even a blind man can see that thieves are a little screwy right now. again watch that video and tell me if any other class can do what that man did? if you cant name a class get off my thread please. OH BTW i read your file you have a thief so of course your going to defend your character i don’t need thief elitists to comment on this thread

Hilarious. Just hilarious.

1) What “pile” is this? Yes, they are more powerful than they should be right now, because culling overpowers stealth in its current state but stealth itself is not the culprit of Thieves being more utilitarian than intended. Other than that, there is absolutely NOTHING that a Thief can bring to the table that is superior to other classes. NONE. They outperform because the engine accelerates the usefulness of their core mechanic. Don’t blame the Thief profession for that.
2) If you bring up the Steal burst, then I’m sorry to say that the feared burst is avoidable. Learn to play. I’m terribly sorry to be the one to tell you, but I do it all the time.
3) Simply HAVING a Thief makes you biased? Now I know that you’re trolling or ignorant beyond imagination, because that implies that you yourself would not have made or even played one out of some strange sense of “honor” or upholding a pride in an effort to remain “unbiased”? Am I correct? Anyone who even DARES to pick up a Thief to actually test them out for themselves has subsequently defected from the mighty Non-Thief Empire and must be eliminated! Believe it or not, people DO have more than one character. Madness, I know.

Any further ridiculous accusations you’d like to throw my way?

thiefs are broken. i can only see some1 who plays one a lot say otherwise. Like think of it for a second, ****load of damage and stealth spam which is almost as good as invulnerability… Currently playing Crysis 3 and guess what? The game is too easy, why? Cuz you one hit with bow and stealth 24/7.

oZii.2864:

You can’t teleport out of the shadow refuge before the field barrier disappears otherwise you get revealed just like any other thief same applies when your down.

This.

When I was new to the game I used to think Shadow Refuge was the most broken thing ever… Then I learned that they need to sit inside the conspicuous AoE for the full duration of they get revealed immediately. So if you see someone use it, go full ham with the AoE and it’s a guaranteed kill. Bonus points if you have an AoE knockback (like a mesmer). Knock them straight out of it.

Air.6452:

I didn’t read every comment but honestly this is L2P problem. Some guy posted a video up there of a thief messing with a zerg. But honestly…….. That zerg was full of people who have no idea what they are doing except following a mindless zerg.

Did they just assume that once the thief disappeared that he was magically unattackable and gone? Like what a joke.

I am biased, yes, because I play a thief. At times, I have slayed 5- man groups with ease. But I have also been bested 1v1 on many occasions.

The class is not OP, the people kittening are just complaining because they are bad at this game and Anet gave them a place to complain.

of course they had no idea what to do there was a thief they couldnt see 90% of the time going around killing everyone and believe me if i could submit this in private i would be happy because then i dont have to answer to people like you and you should have read every comment it might have hit you with some knowledge and i dont suck i am actually very good on my warrior…

pantsforbirds.9032:

@Shrilly, hey there is already a thread dedicated to the discussion of thieves and their game play under the thief profession subforum. If you are having a problem playing against thieves in wvw i highly recommend you check out the thread.

Lets keep these forums clean!

I am keeping the forums clean i kept seeing every thief and their grandma complain about these types of threads cluttering up their subforum so i posted it here i already gave my reasoning above.

Auesis.7301:

Shrilly.7184:

You sound like a baby and pointing at my posts and calling them wrong with no facts or details behinds it only concretes that fact. so i will post videos and damage calculators since the first one wasnt good eneough for you to add to the pile that thieves are a little op right now with current mechanics i suggest you get off the soap box and try offending someone else cause you wont do it here i posted this for anet answers which you cannot provide. And no bs from Colin won’t help the case why arent more people pointing out some opness on other classes? because even a blind man can see that thieves are a little screwy right now. again watch that video and tell me if any other class can do what that man did? if you cant name a class get off my thread please. OH BTW i read your file you have a thief so of course your going to defend your character i don’t need thief elitists to comment on this thread

Hilarious. Just hilarious.

1) What “pile” is this? Yes, they are more powerful than they should be right now, because culling overpowers stealth in its current state but stealth itself is not the culprit of Thieves being more utilitarian than intended. Other than that, there is absolutely NOTHING that a Thief can bring to the table that is superior to other classes. NONE. They outperform because the engine accelerates the usefulness of their core mechanic. Don’t blame the Thief profession for that.
2) If you bring up the Steal burst, then I’m sorry to say that the feared burst is avoidable. Learn to play. I’m terribly sorry to be the one to tell you, but I do it all the time.
3) Simply HAVING a Thief makes you biased? Now I know that you’re trolling or ignorant beyond imagination, because that implies that you yourself would not have made or even played one out of some strange sense of “honor” or upholding a pride in an effort to remain “unbiased”? Am I correct? Anyone who even DARES to pick up a Thief to actually test them out for themselves has subsequently defected from the mighty Non-Thief Empire and must be eliminated! Believe it or not, people DO have more than one character. Madness, I know.

Any further ridiculous accusations you’d like to throw my way?

ok i see you are trying to sound smart here but that first paragraph really blew it for you “they are more powerful because of culling in stealth not stealth itself” in the post you quoted, i said, they are OP because of their current mechanics no freaking crap i played WoW for years im fine with stealth letem have it but dont givem a stealth where they can kill go stealth finisher kill go stealth attack go stealth…you get it. AND you just said they are outperforming(OP) so why are you arguing with me? and i am not blaming the class??? read the posts before you post this we went over this. and steal burst? never had a problem with it sorry to take away from the insult im fine with it. and yes having a thief will make someone biased? Who wants a class of their nerfed even if it is op? “YES! we are getting nerfed today guys happy day!” . seriously i want to think of a good metaphor for this one but i think this one is self explanatory. and no you arent correct i played the thief and it wasn’t my thing no i didn’t have a hard time i just leveled it and stopped playing it. idk what honor i have to uphold to express my concerns? and i didnt accuse anyone of anything what are you talking about? and yeah if i had a thief a mesmer and a warrior and the thief was pretty op at the time i would use my thief more for WvW correct? So it would still benefit them if they had more than one character the thief doesnt get weaker if you level other characters madness i know…also yes it is a pile you called it so yourself even tho your so quick to slide it under the table…and again i didnt get a class that could pull off what that thief did in the video you failed the challenge now you must leave the thread so that anet can see it. that is the only reason i posted this if i wanted to start an argument i would have posted in thief subform with “the rest of the pile”

I have 6x 80 chars. And i agree with OP. I love thief, and don’t want it destroyed or nerfed. But 300 health per second while cloacked, together with shadow refuge is op.

And ’it’s easy to pull thief out’, don’t let me laugh. Last week i tried this TONS of times on my mesmer, both GS 5 and focus 4. Guess what most of the time the thief still got free. If you dodge inside your shadow refuge, you avoid all this kind of stuff. It’s a peace of cake.

If 3 thiefs run with the ‘heal when cloacked’ trait, it’s kinda op. You cannot kill those thiefs. They just outheal/outcloack you at the same time. Even when you down one of them. Even superior aoe they can heal right tru it, with the passive cloack heal + downed ress.

And culling of course. I’m pressing T (if i tagged thief with control + T), or closest enemie buttons non stop, and trust me, when a thief uses a skill that cloacks him 4 secs (like the heal, traited 1s stealth), they are not selected/visible until at least 5 secs. And let’s be honest. If they don’t improve servers (wich they won’t, without monthly fees to pay for it), then culling will always be in wvw. And because of that thief should be balanced.

Some servers like to abuse a technique (one thief goes all out, maybe dies – most of time escape though), one he dies, out of nowhere two thiefs come, one puts a SR, they all heal because of the passive, the downed thief gets up in no time (even with heavy aoe/control abilities), the other one puts SR, they happely flee. And they do this again in 1 minute (really not long imo in wvw).

I love thief, and part of me want it to stay as it is. But other part of me knows the truth, that they are (albeit slighty, on a thin and fragile line), overpowered. I could lie about it, and keep enjoying their OP’ness. But that’s not the kind of morale I have

PS this only counts for wvw. If any update may come, do so only for wvw. Leave thief as it is in pve.

As a thief, i cant just pop SR whenever or wherever i need to. Theres things that need to be put into consideration. Such as, how many enemies around me, what classes are they, distance to neareat enemy. I have to make sure no one can mess around with my “little house” while im inside.

I died many times because i pop SR like a noob

Shrilly.7184:

It is getting to the point where I don’t even want to WvW anymore yeah i used to have the skill to kill anyone I was faced with. But now thieves are getting skills that pretty much perma stealths them? no matter how many times i knock them down or keep them on the ground they will just get back up and be in stealth for 10 sec+. This is not how the class is supposed to be played like this I cant even hit them? Yak’s Bend is FULL of them no one is using anything but thieves anymore in WvW on that side. Either have it like WoW’s stealth where there is 1 vanish and perma stealth or have it where you were going with it where they can only be in stealth for just seconds but having both is just rediculous its gettign to the point we need whole groups to take out 1 thief but they end up vanishing and running away not to be seen anyway so please do something about this or you won’t find me in WvW anymore and since PvE isnt established right may full on quit.

If it makes you feel better thieves are useless out of wvw as a class and the only thing worse than the class are the majority of players that play it.

99% of thieves are worthless in a dungeon because they bring the same glass cannon 222222 build and gear into a dungeon and spend most of it downed or dead waiting on a rez.

They aren’t op at all wvw is broken and the class exploits culling.

The best way to get revenge is to not run dungeons with them unless they actually bring some support. Out of all the dungeons I’ve run there have been maybe 3 decent thieves.

Actually, in certain situations, I drop shadow refuges AWAY from me just to draw enemy fire.

I cloak with C&D, drop the SR into empty zone, run away & extend my stealth with HiS, and if able, teleport away with Shadow Step… When I look back, I see Mesmers, Warriors, Eles and Guardians literally blowing all their skills on the fake refuge… My only thought is: ‘Thanks God I’m not there’.

Kyrion.2749:

Actually, in certain situations, I drop shadow refuges AWAY from me just to draw enemy fire.

I cloak with C&D, drop the SR into empty zone, run away & extend my stealth with HiS, and if able, teleport away with Shadow Step… When I look back, I see Mesmers, Warriors, Eles and Guardians literally blowing all their skills on the fake refuge… My only thought is: ‘Thanks God I’m not there’.

Pretty clever, im gonna try that. Thanks

The time to nerf thieves is NOW.

Arenanet have known the issues for a very long time, hence the ancient and eternally bumped “The thief and it’s playstyle” thread in the Thief forum.

I am looking forward with optimism to the 26th.

Shrilly.7184:

Air.6452:

I didn’t read every comment but honestly this is L2P problem. Some guy posted a video up there of a thief messing with a zerg. But honestly…….. That zerg was full of people who have no idea what they are doing except following a mindless zerg.

Did they just assume that once the thief disappeared that he was magically unattackable and gone? Like what a joke.

I am biased, yes, because I play a thief. At times, I have slayed 5- man groups with ease. But I have also been bested 1v1 on many occasions.

The class is not OP, the people kittening are just complaining because they are bad at this game and Anet gave them a place to complain.

of course they had no idea what to do there was a thief they couldnt see 90% of the time going around killing everyone and believe me if i could submit this in private i would be happy because then i dont have to answer to people like you and you should have read every comment it might have hit you with some knowledge and i dont suck i am actually very good on my warrior…

But are you really?

If you are on this forum complaining that a class which has already received many nerfs needs more, then I can only assume that you are just offended that some players are just better than you.

There is no way that is thief is going invis for 10+ seconds every time they reappear, it is just not going to be the case, there are NO skills that would allow this. They can disappear for 3-4 second periods, and if you are acting like an idiot and not doing anything about it when they stealth, then yes, they are going to make a fool of you.

I have said this before in another forum: If you want to nerf a thief for being too stealthy, then nerf Mesmers flurry of blades making then invincible, and nerf warriors hundred blades because it does like 30k damage. kitten it, nerf swirling winds because it makes it take forever to destroy siege equipment. Nerf GW2 because apparently it’s too hard for some people.

Well , well the thief discussion is pushing forward , it’s been how long ? 8 months ? First it was heartseeker , then it was 100 stealth skills , bow damage , caltrops , culling bug ? now it’s CnD ? Or i may be forgetting some lawl.. so many .After so much time I would have thought people would have learn to use proper skills or got better to stop complaining about thief gameplay which received the most nerfs so far. When will this casual playerbase rest with the thief already ? It’s not even boring anymore it’s irritating when other classes as mesmer and ele run full boons allthe time and have the same mobility. Give it a rest or find a good tutorial on youtube to counter it. Class is where it should be it doesn’t need to be destroyed. eof

Trick shot is OP, seriously.

Don’t see how culling is the thief’s fault? There’s no perma stealth skill that a thief can use at all. And all I see in that video is a player who actually utilizes his evasive skills and knows when to back off instead of standing there and taking a beating. Admittedly he probably would have died a few times if not for culling, but I don’t really see how that’s a class issue so fix the CULLING issue? Why nerf a class over something that’s not even their fault?. Fought thieves in sPvP and I’ve never seen anything remotely close to a perma stealth, yeah they’re evasive and bounce around the place a lot but that’s about it. It’s hilarious that this class has already been nerfed plenty and people still cry about it because they can’t just mash buttons and insta win against something.

Slcrisis.6930:

Don’t see how culling is the thief’s fault? There’s no perma stealth skill that a thief can use at all. And all I see in that video is a player who actually utilizes his evasive skills and knows when to back off instead of standing there and taking a beating. Admittedly he probably would have died a few times if not for culling, but I don’t really see how that’s a class issue so fix the CULLING issue? Why nerf a class over something that’s not even their fault?. Fought thieves in sPvP and I’ve never seen anything remotely close to a perma stealth, yeah they’re evasive and bounce around the place a lot but that’s about it. It’s hilarious that this class has already been nerfed plenty and people still cry about it because they can’t just mash buttons and insta win against something.

i don’t think culling will be fixed anytime soon. until it is fixed (if ever) thieves should be changed.

the other problem is the huge dps. 6-7k by pressing 1 button is just ridiculous. mother classes can do that as well, but at least they don’t just vanish until they can do it again. they should smack the 66% dmg thieves have in spvp to wvwvw. it would be a start.

It amuses me to see thief nerf requests instead of people asking how to counter stealth to begin with.

1. No stealth is invulnerable, if they are actually gana spam stealth they are most likely dancing around you therefore you know to swing/aoe around your spot. simple cc and you can make a stealth spamming thief/mesmer cry.

2. No, there is no such thing as perma stealth. Even with 15 in shadow arts and every stealth utility/healing/weapon skill you won’t be in stealth forever, not to mention if they are just going stealth without attacking you, why worry about them? They physically cannot perma stealth, that is a rendering issue and not a broken class mechanic so stay tuned to the developers on fixes(they already said they are making progress towards this awhile back).

3. If a thief is 1 shotting you, they obviously are glass cannon and you are glass cannon as well. Advice? Don’t build glasss cannon against the best burst prof in the game. You will lose more than enough times and should learn that by now. Immobilize, launch, kb, kd, stun, ummm dodge?, fear, sink, float, daze. My ranger with sb can easily counter any thief, simply because I can instant daze their healing stealth skill, or use my 4 skill from warhorn and track them, or plant a trap down and track them when the trip it, or even muddy terrain that pathetic Hs spam and watch them leap in place.

Just to name a few…. seems like no one is open to ask for counters. Bunker ele and bunker mesmer atm are the only real op builds since nothing really can counter them aside from out numbering them. Try to 1v1 a good bunker ele, try to 3v1 a good bunker ele, doesnt work. I can counter thief on 3 different professions np, and I wouldn’t say I’m remotely skilled to be playing in the big leagues. Thieves are not broken, you should be asking for advice not to slap on more nerfs to the most nerfed prof since release

I ocassionally roll thief in WvW myself, using S/D & SB instead of the common used D/D combination. I gotta say, those using HS D/D aren’t worth the name “Thief”, because they ruin the entire profession’s name. I don’t use the stealth spam neither, so don’t say that EVERY thief is a kitten, although a lot of them are.

I suggest they counter the HS spamming by higher cost of initiative and fix the culling.
I have trouble with those HS/BS thieves myself in WvW, unless you make them waste all their initiative then hunt them down while they are useless.
HS + stealth spam thieves are not the way thieves should ever work.

Sirendor.1394:

I ocassionally roll thief in WvW myself, using S/D & SB instead of the common used D/D combination. I gotta say, those using HS D/D aren’t worth the name “Thief”, because they ruin the entire profession’s name. I don’t use the stealth spam neither, so don’t say that EVERY thief is a kitten, although a lot of them are.

I suggest they counter the HS spamming by higher cost of initiative and fix the culling.
I have trouble with those HS/BS thieves myself in WvW, unless you make them waste all their initiative then hunt them down while they are useless.
HS + stealth spam thieves are not the way thieves should ever work.

Heartseeker Spam is one of the easiest things to avoid in PvP, I suggest you learn ways around it (there are several, I won’t bother explaining, because its all over the Thief Gameplay thread.)

Daecollo, did you ever read what everyone in this post said?! They countered your point with this: through the culling in zergs you CAN’T see the thief, even while his stealth is gone, so you can’t know where your enemy is and you get hit out of thin air.

Sirendor.1394:

Daecollo, did you ever read what everyone in this post said?! They countered your point with this: through the culling in zergs you CAN’T see the thief, even while his stealth is gone, so you can’t know where your enemy is and you get hit out of thin air.

and then i refer you to the 2. point in NinjaEd.3946 latest reply, which countered that complain very nicely

My problems with thieves are just two:
- Models are not preloaded when thieves lurk around, so they can deal several hits before they are actually visible. You should not be damaged by enemies you can’t see, unless they are cloaked, yet we have too many cases of invisible non-cloaked enemies hitting players that can’t see them. Fixing culling won’t fix that for thieves, as the game won’t load them until they are revealed.
- They can get away too easily from fights. Solo thieves tend to look for weak targets, and run away from fair fights. Even after the rebalance of level scaling that still works for them.
They have lower risk thanks to that, but the same rewards as the rest, meaning that the risk vs reward ratio of thieves is imbalanced compared with the rest of professions. Something must be done to compensate, like stealth lasting less while running away from enemies, or even stealth being removed altogether upon leaving combat (still being able to apply it again while out of combat, just removed when the arrows to change skills appear).
If you start a fight you should risk your own defeat, and they don’t. They just try for weak enemies and run away when they find someone they can’t defeat.

MithranArkanere.8957:

My problems with thieves are just two:
- Models are not preloaded when thieves lurk around, so they can deal several hits before they are actually visible. You should not be damaged by enemies you can’t see, unless they are cloaked, yet we have too many cases of invisible non-cloaked enemies hitting players that can’t see them. Fixing culling won’t fix that for thieves, as the game won’t load them until they are revealed.
- They can get away too easily from fights. Solo thieves tend to look for weak targets, and run away from fair fights. Even after the rebalance of level scaling that still works for them.
They have lower risk thanks to that, but the same rewards as the rest, meaning that the risk vs reward ratio of thieves is imbalanced compared with the rest of professions. Something must be done to compensate, like stealth lasting less while running away from enemies, or even stealth being removed altogether upon leaving combat (still being able to apply it again while out of combat, just removed when the arrows to change skills appear).
If you start a fight you should risk your own defeat, and they don’t. They just try for weak enemies and run away when they find someone they can’t defeat.

Mesmers can do the same ^^ and guardian or ele bunker can just live forever. I’d take fighting a coward who runs away vs the unkillable bunker ppl any day. Guard can sorta be killed, but bunker ele no no no no…

Fixing the rendering would solve many of these complaints, because in spvp I don’t really notice this. Its just in large scale fights ppl dont load to begin with, then add invisible people having to load and it just goes haywire.

Shrilly.7184:

Jrunyon.3012:

Wow, tons of misinformation here in this thread. All I saw in that video was a thief attacking people who weren’t even fighting back. Not really OP if you ask me. Also vespers, that’s not the was HS works at all.

Nerfing a class because of l2p issues is not the way to go and I’m glad Anet is taking their time to make sure they get it right.

Also, this post belongs in the thief subforum with the other 50 threads that consist of the same thing.

I love these L2P comments by thieves get a better argument btw this thrwead is in suggestions to anet i dont need your opinion just anets views thanks. and if you dont see some people fighting back and dieing in a whole group your blind sir. and no it doesnt belong in the thief sub forum because ppl will QQ “this is for thief help not blah blah” sorry im not doing that read other threads that consisted of such so please sir walk away. You know what not only that but think of it this way could any other class any other whatsoever get away with what that thief did in the video? no…. and on top of that what if all the players left and all that was left were the thieves that are like a cancer? wouldn’t be much fun then would it?

how about an L2P comment from a non thief player?

L2P

the majority of those zergs had the reaction speed of a dead goldfish; and half were just running away

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Shrilly.7184:

Jrunyon.3012:

Wow, tons of misinformation here in this thread. All I saw in that video was a thief attacking people who weren’t even fighting back. Not really OP if you ask me. Also vespers, that’s not the was HS works at all.

Nerfing a class because of l2p issues is not the way to go and I’m glad Anet is taking their time to make sure they get it right.

Also, this post belongs in the thief subforum with the other 50 threads that consist of the same thing.

I love these L2P comments by thieves get a better argument btw this thrwead is in suggestions to anet i dont need your opinion just anets views thanks. and if you dont see some people fighting back and dieing in a whole group your blind sir. and no it doesnt belong in the thief sub forum because ppl will QQ “this is for thief help not blah blah” sorry im not doing that read other threads that consisted of such so please sir walk away. You know what not only that but think of it this way could any other class any other whatsoever get away with what that thief did in the video? no…. and on top of that what if all the players left and all that was left were the thieves that are like a cancer? wouldn’t be much fun then would it?

how about an L2P comment from a non thief player?

L2P

the majority of those zergs had the reaction speed of a dead goldfish; and half were just running away

ya all those 100+ people must have all been terrible! man these people just can’t face facts where is the class that can do the same in that video? New Rule if you can’t name a class and the reasoning or video behind it that can do the same thing as that thief int he video your argument is useless and you need to go away the video is perfect example of why they need to be nerfed. short of swinging your weapon around like an idiot all they have to do is.. move away from you in another direction? not that hard when no1 can see you its pretty easy to get away and how is this L2P seriously so everyone on that video is L2P man all you 100 people suck you cant play. and of course they run away i do the same thing there is hardly anything you can do in that situation. You need a whole zerg to kill thives now and these are all types of people coming from all walks of life in this zerg and a lot are good yet have a problem with thieves. Grow up games change classes get nerfed its a part of the game if you cant handle THAT then leave the game now. Some point anet will have to understand its getting pretty ridiculousness.

NinjaEd.3946:

MithranArkanere.8957:

My problems with thieves are just two:
- Models are not preloaded when thieves lurk around, so they can deal several hits before they are actually visible. You should not be damaged by enemies you can’t see, unless they are cloaked, yet we have too many cases of invisible non-cloaked enemies hitting players that can’t see them. Fixing culling won’t fix that for thieves, as the game won’t load them until they are revealed.
- They can get away too easily from fights. Solo thieves tend to look for weak targets, and run away from fair fights. Even after the rebalance of level scaling that still works for them.
They have lower risk thanks to that, but the same rewards as the rest, meaning that the risk vs reward ratio of thieves is imbalanced compared with the rest of professions. Something must be done to compensate, like stealth lasting less while running away from enemies, or even stealth being removed altogether upon leaving combat (still being able to apply it again while out of combat, just removed when the arrows to change skills appear).
If you start a fight you should risk your own defeat, and they don’t. They just try for weak enemies and run away when they find someone they can’t defeat.

Mesmers can do the same ^^ and guardian or ele bunker can just live forever. I’d take fighting a coward who runs away vs the unkillable bunker ppl any day. Guard can sorta be killed, but bunker ele no no no no…

Fixing the rendering would solve many of these complaints, because in spvp I don’t really notice this. Its just in large scale fights ppl dont load to begin with, then add invisible people having to load and it just goes haywire.

the problem is you never see the cowrd run away he went invisible and ran away

1.Attack Rate vs High Damage – normally classes need high attack rate to compensate for the lack of damage that is not the case with the thiefs in this game and actually offers a huge advantage crit builds usually hit for 1.8-2.5k damage wich doesnt seem a big deal but now lets take thief’s attack speed to the formula 1.8×4=7200 damage per second or lets make it non crit 800×4=3200 damage per second as thiefs have an attack rate of 1/4

2.Initiative System- it is a bit gamebreaking having a class able to spam huge damage skills without a cooldown nor penalty.

3.the obvoius Stealth: it is a mechanic that has never worked on any other MMO before and in this game it is implemented in a much worse way.

4.the extras you mix with all these Shadowstep and teleportation assures thief kills as his target will never out run him even with swiftness and viceversa a skilled thief wont be caught because he ll simply stealth and/or teleport away from harm and reset the fight.

as for those who say thiefs can be countered yes some but why is it ok for a class to go full glass cannon and not be punished for mistakes also even if the defending player is a pure toughness healing build thiefs can apply conditions in a blink over and over thus rendering toughness useless for the player while dealing huge direct damage.

both Direct and Condition damage are superior than that of most classes.

Daecollo.9578:

Sirendor.1394:

I ocassionally roll thief in WvW myself, using S/D & SB instead of the common used D/D combination. I gotta say, those using HS D/D aren’t worth the name “Thief”, because they ruin the entire profession’s name. I don’t use the stealth spam neither, so don’t say that EVERY thief is a kitten, although a lot of them are.

I suggest they counter the HS spamming by higher cost of initiative and fix the culling.
I have trouble with those HS/BS thieves myself in WvW, unless you make them waste all their initiative then hunt them down while they are useless.
HS + stealth spam thieves are not the way thieves should ever work.

Heartseeker Spam is one of the easiest things to avoid in PvP, I suggest you learn ways around it (there are several, I won’t bother explaining, because its all over the Thief Gameplay thread.)

The closest i can get is dodge and a block from shield (which i do not use) and if i did all he would have to do is go stealth and get more initiative

Have u played a thief for more than 5 minutes?

Slcrisis.6930:

Don’t see how culling is the thief’s fault? There’s no perma stealth skill that a thief can use at all. And all I see in that video is a player who actually utilizes his evasive skills and knows when to back off instead of standing there and taking a beating. Admittedly he probably would have died a few times if not for culling, but I don’t really see how that’s a class issue so fix the CULLING issue? Why nerf a class over something that’s not even their fault?. Fought thieves in sPvP and I’ve never seen anything remotely close to a perma stealth, yeah they’re evasive and bounce around the place a lot but that’s about it. It’s hilarious that this class has already been nerfed plenty and people still cry about it because they can’t just mash buttons and insta win against something.

I can 1v1 a thief where i can see them blink in and out of stealth the entire time nme never hitting them but maybe a few lucky shots and if it is “culling” then im asking to fix that but something does need to be done. SPvP is different idk why i dont have the problem with that there im still very good there and only die 1sa whole round but when you enter WvW they stealth everywhere you cant hit anything its insane its what that video shows. and that thief hardly ever backs off he just goes stealth moves to another player and keeps going.

Writetyper.1985:

I wonder why in other games like Dota the game is balanced around good players and everyone’s fine with this but here all the kittenty players are allowed to whine because they’re too autistic to press “dodge” when a thief tries to waste all their burst on them. I’m not even a thief. I’m a kittening warrior. What are you trying to achieve here? Make thieves 100% useless everywhere? Making excuses for rolling your face on the keyboard instead of using fingers and hands as control?

I am very good at combat but wouldnt you sayit would be easy to dodge roll twice (even tho you will be hit by the last h/s before they waste inertia) go into stealth get it all back and continue? not only that initiative (as seen in the vid) can be renewed very very fast (to me anyways)

Shizzlenit.7648:

Have u played a thief for more than 5 minutes?

yup got an asura and a sylvari

Air.6452:

Shrilly.7184:

Air.6452:

I didn’t read every comment but honestly this is L2P problem. Some guy posted a video up there of a thief messing with a zerg. But honestly…….. That zerg was full of people who have no idea what they are doing except following a mindless zerg.

Did they just assume that once the thief disappeared that he was magically unattackable and gone? Like what a joke.

I am biased, yes, because I play a thief. At times, I have slayed 5- man groups with ease. But I have also been bested 1v1 on many occasions.

The class is not OP, the people kittening are just complaining because they are bad at this game and Anet gave them a place to complain.

of course they had no idea what to do there was a thief they couldnt see 90% of the time going around killing everyone and believe me if i could submit this in private i would be happy because then i dont have to answer to people like you and you should have read every comment it might have hit you with some knowledge and i dont suck i am actually very good on my warrior…

But are you really?

If you are on this forum complaining that a class which has already received many nerfs needs more, then I can only assume that you are just offended that some players are just better than you.

There is no way that is thief is going invis for 10+ seconds every time they reappear, it is just not going to be the case, there are NO skills that would allow this. They can disappear for 3-4 second periods, and if you are acting like an idiot and not doing anything about it when they stealth, then yes, they are going to make a fool of you.

I have said this before in another forum: If you want to nerf a thief for being too stealthy, then nerf Mesmers flurry of blades making then invincible, and nerf warriors hundred blades because it does like 30k damage. kitten it, nerf swirling winds because it makes it take forever to destroy siege equipment. Nerf GW2 because apparently it’s too hard for some people.

they have a 10+ invis skill look it up…mesmers flurry i never had a problem with THAT you can just dodge out of and wait they are immobolized for the skill…if you cant beat that thats really difficulties on your part… 100 blades? your joking? the other immobilized skill that you can dodge out of instead of standing in it like an idiot? even if he roots you use that stability or one of 30+ condition removals i do it quite often never had a problem here either and if your a thief unroot yourself and disable shot that simple. and the siege is too hard for you to destroy? the wooden object…no comment

Shadow’s Refuge gives you 10s of invisibility, but like all invisibility skills, you’re immediately revealed if you attack. Also, it has a 60s cooldown (used to be 30s too). They can’t keep going invisible for 10+ seconds. Never ever going to happen, and if it happens, then maybe you’re getting a very bad case of culling, or it’s time to go talk to the eye doctors!

Anyways… there’s a thread dedicated to this in the thief forum. It’s been out for several months.

Just make it so that thief gets unveiled the moment he eats a physical attack.
No need for pagelong threads and month long suggestions.

That wouldn’t work because then a thief will probably have 0s of stealth time XD and won’t be able to hit off a backstab or other stealth abilities.

kenshinakh.3672:

Shadow’s Refuge gives you 10s of invisibility, but like all invisibility skills, you’re immediately revealed if you attack. Also, it has a 60s cooldown (used to be 30s too). They can’t keep going invisible for 10+ seconds. Never ever going to happen, and if it happens, then maybe you’re getting a very bad case of culling, or it’s time to go talk to the eye doctors!

Anyways… there’s a thread dedicated to this in the thief forum. It’s been out for several months.

Are you scared it won’t get real publicity and thieves won’t bash it all day? I get less arguments on here. Please explain how the thief in the video is able to keep stelthing not to mention caster can’t attack wildly when the go stealth so the squishues really melt like my mesmer

Arekai.5698:

Just make it so that thief gets unveiled the moment he eats a physical attack.
No need for pagelong threads and month long suggestions.

I agree that was my suggestion