Guild Wars 2

CrusaderRabbit.7460:

Ansultares.1567:

CrusaderRabbit.7460:

Maybe a gauntlet style jump puzzle.

You could handle that any better than timed jump puzzles, Munson?

Yes I can. Because I can get lined up, I can get prepared for it. This jump puzzle is- load in later than others, have two seconds to get on and off first couple snowflakes, oh didn’t make it? wait a minute before you can start again. There is a major difference between gauntlet style jumping and timed jumping

Sounds like a PC issue. Every time I load in to the JP I have plenty of time to get ready before the first snowflake spawns.

After a half hour of not getting any further than the third snowflake it became abundantly clear that I was not having fun, so I stopped. I am gradually starting to enjoy jumping puzzles and my technique has improved no end in the past few months but I’m still not great at them and having a timed aspect pretty much puts them out of my reach. I’d like to add my voice to the suggestion of having varying difficulty paths (clearly labelled as such) for these seasonal puzzles, nice easy option for people like me with no time pressure at all, and then other levels getting progressively more challenging so I can push myself to improve gradually. Escalating difficulty might also allow a version that is truly hardcore for those who find the current ones too straightforward.

I’ve come to realize that I’m just not very good at these puzzles. If there is very little timing involved(ie: many of the JPs in the game world), I can persevere and make it through. Otherwise? I’m just wasting my time. It’s not the designer’s fault — I’m just a spaz when there is a timer. That sense of urgency makes me go faster than I should, and I make mistakes. Also, I don’t have the patience to sit through the waiting period before you can start again.

Personally, I like to take my time and figure out where to go(ie: an actual puzzle) vs. a linear race to the end — that is just my preference. Most of the hardcore jumpers probably wouldn’t be happy with that though, and there would be very little re-playability after figuring it out(or watching a guide) so I’m fine with them doing puzzles like this one or the MKCT…

But they aren’t for me.

I have no problem with the game having jumping puzzles and other content that only the most skilled can complete. All levels of players should have fun challanges in the game. I am ok with the fact that there will be many parts of the game that my skill level will never permit me to master or complete, and some rewards that others can display and I can only admire. Olympic medals (jumping) come to mind. Or Superbowl rings (sPvP.)

(Brief aside. My sister once found a Superbowl ring hidden in a band aid box while cleaning out a vacant house. But she is an admirably honest gal, and knew the ring’s rightful owner who had lost it, so I missed my one chance. Didn’t even let me try it on.)

But ALWAYS making these Killer puzzles part of SPECIAL EVENTS, that should be Community Inclusive is a really bad, Community DEVISIVE, idea.

If the simple truth of the flat declaration above is not immediately apparent to you as a player, and more importantly to the game designers and community management teams, then any amount of additional arguement or exposition is pointless.

To put it another way, I believe I am absolutly and unassailably right in that opinion on this one issue, and those who do not agree with me on this one particular issue have an unfortunate blind spot.

Jumping Puzzle and in the end is VISTAS… nyahahahah.

After having done it countless times now I’d like to say I found the clocktower easier after mastering it. Sure overall the wintersday one is easier, but it has many more possible screw up points.

Few points. The start of the puzzle has the wrong timing. A lot of times I simply couldn’t start due to the flake having already disintegrated. Other times I barely made the first jump. Only once did I load the puzzle before the flakes had spawned. So it is very unfriendly towards medium and lower end machines. Some of this though is server side as it almost only happens during primetime.

The waiting needs to be reduced. It’s nice and all to be able to say the jumpers while you are waiting, but it also means if someone makes it past the exploding presents you are in for the full wait most likely. Why not have the lower part already respawn and the next people try again after the presents have exploded. Instead of having them wait. People can’t abuse the puzzle due to the life degeneration so that’s not an issue. You’d basically have a constant flow of jumpers.

On the bug note: I’ve gotten invisible flakes from time to time, which makes finishing it quite hard. That coupled with the load problems I simply can not build a streak past 3 or 4. One or the other will simply kill me, without it being my fault.

Is anyone else getting this? I know the flakes are supposed to disappear, but I jump with a fully solid flake in front of me and simply pass right through it. Am I lagging that badly? I never had this problem with the Mad King’s tower (though I failed miserably on that one because I’m just bad at JPs).

Thanks for all the views!

I’ve never fallen through a snowflake before after probably a couple hundred runs of the JP.

But I’m very fast, so it never even gets close to the time when the flakes are going to melt on me. Maybe the hitbox for the flakes disappears before the actual model does (so the model disappears before you visually see the flake melt). I’m pretty sure I have jumped through a present or two that hadn’t visually exploded but might have been about to explode.

Yep it’s too easy…

I bought the game after Halloween so I didn’t get to try that one but after hearing how difficult it was by so many people, I was expecting a challenge.

It wasn’t.

Maybe I’m just good at jumping or whatever but I failed it four times when I was learning it and now I don’t fail at all. I don’t expect anything harder anytime in the future because it would probably upset a lot of players but I just wanted to let my opinion be known.

Thanks for reading.

well i probably suck at jp’s as i only made it to the snowball once in 300 tries :P

its quite annoying when there’s only 3 people in the instance they all are thrown on the same path, with my little asura and a huge charr blocking my sight it gets even more frustrating then it already is(for my part)

but overall nicely done, looks great.

i almost get the hang of holding the right mouse button :P

I think you should add more parts to the jumping puzzle after some days, so maybe when the event ends we have 3 parts.

Wojo.7906:

Things stopping me are near 90 degree turns (yes using right mouse button to turn)….

What is your camera rotation speed set at? Perhaps you need to go into your options and increase your camera rotation so it’s more responsive (I have mine set to 50% and have no issues with the puzzle).

Manoa.5897:

Wojo.7906:

Things stopping me are near 90 degree turns (yes using right mouse button to turn)….

What is your camera rotation speed set at? Perhaps you need to go into your options and increase your camera rotation so it’s more responsive (I have mine set to 50% and have no issues with the puzzle).

Actual;ly on jumps like that I just turn like 45 degrees then adjust in midair. Keeps me in front so those dang Ckitten’t block me

drclawizdead.8214:

Manoa.5897:

Wojo.7906:

Things stopping me are near 90 degree turns (yes using right mouse button to turn)….

What is your camera rotation speed set at? Perhaps you need to go into your options and increase your camera rotation so it’s more responsive (I have mine set to 50% and have no issues with the puzzle).

Actual;ly on jumps like that I just turn like 45 degrees then adjust in midair. Keeps me in front so those dang Ckitten’t block me

That may work for someone who is an advanced jumper and/or someone with fast twitch reflexes (I adjust mid-air to correct jumps as needed myself), but this could be a bit tricky for someone struggling with the puzzle. A higher camera rotation setting could help those folks so that their camera is always facing forward and they can line their jumps up more easily. The less keystrokes to juggle, the better for those who struggling.

Silver.9578:

The problem with “it should all be for everyone” is that it makes it all BORING. I don’t want to go through these events like a zombie crossing off “things to do” from a list. If that’s what it’s all about than maybe these seasonal events are not for me.

Yeah these events are totally things to cross off a list.
In Guild Wars One it was a lot faster and wasted less time, and you could count on having a reward at the end… Not 150 cogs short to make a mini…. wheee.

I’m starting to think i’m just gonna ignore the event until it comes to hat waiting time.

I personally found the JP slightly difficult due to the position of the platforms and the ‘timer’ on you, but I started to get the hang of it as it continued. You also learn to start setting things up for you in advance, such as holding down A or D to start turning in midair as you land on a platform for some of those spiral jumps. With enough practice, it’ll become second nature for you.

I know several players who it took 30 minutes to get past the snowflakes. After they did though, they started passing through the snowflakes without problems, and started having problems at the other parts. But so you know, if you get past the snowflakes, it’s all downhill from there (because there’s less jumps).

I think this jumping puzzle is a failed design. Here is why:

People who are good at jumping puzzles find it too easy. People who are not so good find it impossible, due to the disappearing platforms. The crumbling flakes and exploding presents mean absolutely nothing to those who are really good, because they are well past them before they disappear, but the mechanic makes the puzzle near impossible for those who need split second pauses between jumps to reorient.

End result, no one is happy.

In the future, please, offer different difficulty levels with scaling rewards and make the lowest difficulty level something that people, with patience, but lacking in lightning fast reflexes and a surgeon’s dexterity can accomplish, ok? Very frustrating for an event that is supposed to be “fun”.

Fiontar.4695:

Very frustrating for an event that is supposed to be “fun”.

Yeah my sentiments exactly.

Maybe we can just go sledding or some other distraction where you don’t get rewarded at all, but is actually legit fun…. and actually has something to do with the holiday in question.

(An exotic that comes from the mkct? Really?! That’s a bit ridiculous.) Instead of/or in addition to charging money for the seasonal town clothes, why not make them the reward for all these hoops you have to jump through? …and then you get the hat that you normally get when it comes time.

Also (I know it’s off topic at this point)… but where’s the nog?! I guess liquor doesn’t drop during the holidays anymore either.

well after 300+ tries i finally managed it, when i got used to holding the right mouse button and camera speed to close to half. so overall, bit frustrating and rewards not so good imo but hey, another achievement in the pocket :P

happy holidays to all

Congratulations che!

This puzzle is badly designed
(No, this is not another “couldn’t do it” complaint. This is a genuine design evaluation.)

The problem is the reward/effort curve is broken for 50% of the people who attempt the puzzle.

The two experiences:
Players who are above average at timed jumping puzzles (the upper 50%)
These players regularly break clear of the starting pack (repeated early encouragement), get further each round (shorter waiting times and more time spent practising the puzzle) and require fewer attempts to complete the puzzle.
Result: completed quickly, satisfied.
Common feedback: “Too easy.” “It was over too quickly.”

Players who are below average at timed jumping puzzles (the lower 50%)
These players fail early and often (repeated early discourager), spend most of their time waiting (a lot more than the ‘above-average’ player), and require many more attempts to complete the puzzle.
Result = take a long time to complete the puzzle, many don’t complete, frustration.
Common feedback = “Hate it.” “Frustrating.” “Took far too long.”

For players below the skill threshold for these puzzles the reward/effort curve (as currently designed) turns negative very fast.
That in itself might not be an issue if it weren’t for these compounding problems:
1) People won’t know if they are below that threshold until they attempt the puzzle.
2) People that are below the skill threshold experience repeated early failure and long wait times, and require a lot of retries before they experience (progress) success in their attempts.

Solution: Tweak the design so that below average players are 1) not so harshly punished at the start, 2) get to experience some success early in the puzzle, and 3) get a better practice to wait ratio.

To be honest its been sugested plenty of times and i honestly dont understand why Anet doesnt just do it from now on.

Difficulty levels.

This latest Jumping Puzzle has 3 starting positions joining up about 3/4 the way thru. Why not use that time spent designing said 3 starting points and instead make 3 different jumping puzzle entierly (Easy, Standard, hard). Have the NPC ask what difficulty level do u want ..and presto problem sorted.

Add achievmennts for each difficulty but have it so any of them count towards to final overall achiemvent. Have the rewards ‘almost’ identical so that those on easy dont feel they are loosing out agianst those on hard ..but not the same so that those on hard feel like its a waste of time becouse those on easy are getting the same rewards.

If you do that then ANYONE bit*hing about difficulty above ‘easy’ is obviosly just doing so to be a whiney PITA.

Leablo.2651:

People saying they cannot load in before the snowflakes disappear. Does your system meet the requirements? Because that should really not be happening at all.

Strangely enough, I can play fine on high graphics, but when it comes to load screens my computer can get crappy

I don’t understand how people are whining about this jumping puzzle, too. This one is about a dozen times easier than the clock tower by far. It took me about 2 or 3 hours to finish the clock tower, but this one I beat in probably 4 runs.

The jumps are easy and obvious, and the timing is very forgiving. I don’t even ever see any snowflakes disappearing because they stay up so long.

If you can’t do this jumping puzzle then just accept the fact that you aren’t very good at them and move on with life. There isn’t anything which says you’re required or entitled to complete every single thing in the game.

I personally really like the fact that the puzzle is timed. There are a lot of jumping puzzles already in the game where the challenge lays elsewhere.

Yes I hope that the upcoming puzzles (we always want more, don’t we?) are introduced with a different mechanic to make them challenging… not because I hate the timed thing, but because I want more variety.

And no I have not completed it yet after about 90 minutes trying (got close though!) And when I do, I want to be proud of it, I want it to be an “achievement”, something I am glad I kept trying… and maybe I will fail utterly and never succeed, that’s fine. That’s what I think a lot of games lack these days, a challenge (but a fair challenge of course!)

Thank you Arena Net.

The timed jumping puzzles have been my favorite part about the holiday events so far when you complete one the achievement you get feels like and achievement unlike most granted the mad king completion felt much more impressive cause it took longer to do but some of that might be attributed to the skills I gained thru completing the clock tower. Anyway great job anet not as challenging as the tower but having 3 starting path was enough to keep me from getting it right away

Here’s an idea they could’ve gone with: tie the timed nature of the puzzle to the gift we carry, and not to disappearing platforms and such.

For example, make it about delivering hot meals to orphans, have us start out with a steaming plate of delicious holiday dinner that needs to be delivered before it gets too cold. Have a doorman NPC at the end who welcomes people with hot meals into a final room where the achievement and access to a chest are granted, but who kicks slackers with cold plates to the curb admonishing them to be faster next time.

That way, far more people could enjoy the scenery and puzzle design, and explore the place at their own leisure, all the while training to improve their completion times. There would be no need for everyone to start at the same time, so there wouldn’t be annoying wait times between attempts or people complaining about huge charr and norn. Just have a kitchen crew give out hot plates to everyone showing up at the start.

Or any other scenario more appropriate to the holiday than what I managed to come up with, of course, but using similar rules.

Tried it now. I got MKCT before I got this.
Would’ve beaten it, but the DoT gets me every time as I’m going up the gifts.
Every.Damn.Time.

What I don’t understand is… the rewards from the end chest aren’t that great. It’s worth a meager amount of achievement points. There are a total of 16 holiday achievements, and you only need 12 for the title. There is no requirement to do it, so why complain about it? You get nothing for it that can’t be more easily obtained somewhere else during the event. That’s why I am not doing the PvP events – I am not good at PvP and there is enough other stuff to do for me to just ignore it.

What’s even more mind boggling, is that I’ve seen very little QQ about the PvP events. Why do people blow a gasket when it comes to a high skill cap jumping puzzle, but are willing to accept that they don’t have the skill for PvP Snowball Mayhem? Why are people not begging for personal buffs/handicaps based on cumulative skill level measured over multiple plays of Snowball Mayhem?

You know what, I changed my mind. I don’t want to ignore PvP. Since I suck at the PvP Snowball Mayhem, so I demand that in the future all holiday PvP events have an ELO system and each player is given a personal buff/handicap based on their ELO score because, at my current skill level playing against people with better skills than me is unfun.

I actually find this puzzle really hard. I’m nearing 10hrs (which is so sad, but I’m currently unemployed and stubborn) and I still haven’t gotten to the end. I know I’m not the only one because I’m always hanging around people who have been there just as long as I have and fail every single time also!

I wonder if the people who find this too easy are the only ones logging onto this forum to say something, because there sure are a lot of us to are having a really hard time.

Please don’t make them harder.

I hate the fact it’s timed in multiple ways – your health, the snow flakes and the presents.

I hate that you can’t play this solo, and you’re constantly trying to see yourself through other peoples avatars (I’m an asura, so I can never see where I am)

And I hate the damned candy canes, lol.

Ah well, c’est la vie. I’ll probably keep going for another 20hrs if I have to.

If you frequent wvw jps, you will find timed jp’s sense of urgency somewhat familiar

i’ve finished this one with my 2nd try.
at halloween, i’ve finished the obsession-helix after over 2 hours
nonstop trying for the first time – with a rush of adrenaline ^^
amazing location, nice idea and funny – but a lil bit to easy for me.
i love jp, more of them please :-)

I really enjoy this jump puzzle. I feel like the difficulty and timing is just right. When I get to the end of this jump puzzle I feel happy that I am able to finish it. I was not able to get to the very top of the MKCT and I felt a lot more frustration while doing it. Had I been able to get to the top I wouldn’t have really felt happy that I finished it. I would have been more relieved that I never have to do that again.

For the people complaining about not being able to see their character through the charrs and norns; I’ve found that waiting a second at the start so that I am a platform behind the large group of people helps give you an unobstructed view. There is plenty of time to get to the end and you don’t have to be the first person there.

The only problems I have with this jump puzzle is the long waiting time for the puzzle to start. I also dislike having to watch the cinematic every time I enter the winter wonderland zone. Although it is much better than having to watch the cinematic before the start of every round, like in MKCT, I’d prefer to have an option to skip it after watching it once.

Thanks for the wonderful event AN, I am really enjoying the whole wintersday festival. Please continue to make content that is completable by everyone, and not just the elitists.

This puzzle was not nearly as challenging as the clock tower, yet still difficult enough to be satisfying when completed.

Keep up the GREAT work and keep those TIMED puzzles coming. I am looking forward to them every holiday event!

Latorn.4209:

Because they’re amazing. This one isn’t anywhere near as time-sensitive as mad kings.

Boom. Great puzzle!
Great challenge!
LOVE timed puzzles – thank you for being different than every other holiday in other MMO’s. I love you are so far ahead of the curve in keeping them fun and challenging!

I think they did a very good job this time balancing the event so that it can be fun for everyone. The MKCT was a lot of fun for me and I would like to see more fast-paced puzzles, I can see why that would be difficult for a lot of people. It took me several hours to get it down, and then it was a blast to run afterwards. This one only took me several tries, but was still overall enjoyable. I didn’t even know that the snowflakes disappeared until I heard someone mention it.

Also, I’m sure it’s been mentioned before, but the area above the chest platform is a nice bonus view

Draeyon.4392:

Just thought we should start a feedback thread so we can tell ANet what we liked/didn’t like about the new jumping puzzle and suggestions for future jumping puzzles because I have seen multiple threads about this for very specific parts of them.

First off, I like the timed jumping puzzles.
It makes them more intense to get them right as fast as possible.
I also like constant freeze damage so you cant just take it nice and slow so you have to run it literally for your life.
I will say that it wasn’t as hard as the Mad King Clock Tower so ANet, MAKE THEM HARDER!!!!
Something I can complete in 5mins is not hard enough
Don’t listen to the people who say they are too hard. They are just not putting in the time or effort and solely want the rewards for it so they can get their weapon/armor skins.
For me, the challenge is a big part of the reward.

So in short from me, Harder Jumping Puzzle = Better Jumping Puzzle.

making something like a jumping puzzle timed doesn’t make it harder it just makes it require more luck.

No more karma jugs from jumping puzzle anymore? Didn’t get my fix today.

Not sure if it’s been mentioned (this thread is pretty long when I got to it), but this puzzle environment is sufficiently pretty & interestingingly layed out, that it would be nice to have an explorable instance that you could just run & jump around in without the health loss/timer/melting snowflake elements.

I came back…just to say…I’ve made it!!!!

Spent about 3hrs on the first day, 3 hrs the day before, and 1hr yesterday which finally, successfully jumped into the box!!!!

Such joy!!!!

By the way, it seems to me that the ‘difficulty’ may also be down to pc specification and lag.

- Some may feel that it melts fast because their pc have rendered slower
- On occasion, I have started jumping but I’ve seen some others still at the start point waiting, almost 3 flakes away before they start.
- Lag sometimes helps and sometimes is bad, it depends when it got connectivity.

I’m not good at JP, I did not complete MKCT. I run GW2 on a notebook, with notebook graphics. If you need any advise from the average joe, like me, just drop me a message.

So those that are still trying, there’s hope.

Hongxing.9528:

I came back…just to say…I’ve made it!!!!

Spent about 3hrs on the first day, 3 hrs the day before, and 1hr yesterday which finally, successfully jumped into the box!!!!

Such joy!!!!

Understand the delight at completing it.

What about the 7 hours it took to get there? Were they ‘fun’? Can you honestly say you enjoyed them?

Hongxing.9528:

I came back…just to say…I’ve made it!!!!

Spent about 3hrs on the first day, 3 hrs the day before, and 1hr yesterday which finally, successfully jumped into the box!!!!

Such joy!!!!

Great job!! Really happy for you

I liked the haloween and wintersday jumping puzzle. I won’t mind if the next puzzle is harder but I won’t be upset if the difficulty stays same.

All the snow effects make the FPS too low, but other than that the puzzle is fine. Not even as close as good as clock tower was tho.

BluHaze.4629:

(…) There isn’t anything which says you’re required or entitled to complete every single thing in the game.

I would say that EVERYONE is entitled to complete a holiday event. It’s not supposed to be a challenge, it’s supposed to be something fun and easy, and it should take no more than 20 minutes AND you should be guaranteed some cheap holiday items, liquor, food, socks/sweaters/hats whatever, but NOT EXOTIC ARMOR as per the Clock Tower.

If Anet is making every holiday about jumping and dungeons, I’m gonna be pretty annoyed.

I enjoy the Wintersday JP greatly.

I loathe the “timed” nature of these jumping puzzles for two reasons.

1) There is an added sense of urgency which makes it a “sink or swim” event, rather than one which requires players to determine how to approach a given jump or part of the puzzle.

2) Players who fail early have a significantly longer wait due to the “group instance” design of the puzzle. That means that players who are not skilled at jumping puzzles (or just haven’t figured out a particular one) are punished more than those who get further and fail towards the end of the puzzle.

Overall I find the timed jumping puzzles incredibly frustrating, compared to the much more enjoyable “normal” JPs (such as Goemm’s Lab). I only push myself through them as I’m a completionist for Achievements. (Note: I completed the Mad King’s Clock Tower twice, but have yet to complete the Winter Wonderland)

LMAO at this thread – i see more complaints than suggestions.

firstly i just wanted to say MK JP took me 3 days to finally get – yes im not a expert skilled player living on GW2 5 hours a day! lol.

last night attempted the wintersday JP, (2nd day) got as far as the end prior to jumping on the pressies to get to the candy cane to drop down, but if it wasn’t for some fatty Charr in front of me i prob would of made it, i misjudge the pressie and fell and got stuck on the hill underneath lol.

I wouldn’t say its as hard as MK, but the timed theme is a good idea, means u need to move and move quick, not stand there and think about the jump for 2 mins, otherwise everyone would be sitting in that 1 tough spot seeing who will go first and everyone laughs at them! lol. How many vista’s we’ve seen this at like this, people just standing there?

Its a holiday JP and only lasts for a couple more weeks, so lets enjoy it.

I like the idea of 3 different paths for the starting area to midway – i would like to see maybe 5 or 6 paths of a starting area. cos 3 paths / 100 ppl still means 33 people in that starting area with snowflakes melting in about 15 seconds = alot of people having to restart it over and over due to others players in the way – yes u can’t help that, but not everyone has a super fast machine that can handle that kind of stuff and lowering the graphics for each JP is just annoying, i myself had to go from 3 screens to 1 in order to have a smooth run.

maybe with the 6 different starting paths could even have levels of difficulty eg: speak to 1 guy and he ports u to a “easy” path, other medium and another hard. making each path rewards suitable to difficulty to avoid farmers….. would have to be done very well to really avoid people saying 3 runs of this = better than 1 run of hard blah blah…

Overall very good design with great looks, camera angles could of been a little better since turning 1 way zoomed u in due to a object/building next to u but theres sometimes ways around this.

I can’t get past the 4th snowflake and I don’t really care about a reward. Let there be an un-timed mode for those of us who just want to complete the JP.

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