Guild Wars 2

InfamousBrad.5879:

Is it, in fact, good game design to let guilds migrate down?

I actually like your suggestion of lateral. But transferring down offers 2 things. Hittng the low population en mass with like minded individuals, builds an overall bigger base of wvw centric players on the server. Not to say other people don’t join … even new players join. But it opens more ground to ‘help’ build a server based on a common interest. (Also why many of us get along well in game, regardless of guild).

EDIT: wow I missed the second thing. Small and very irrelevent, but it also adds some more mid tier competition. More middle ground when varying servers hand over a few guilds each. <— see somewhat irrelevant.

That being said, a question: if you transferred to a tier-15 server from a tier-4 server in hopes of building a WvW culture from the ground up? Why didn’t you, instead, transfer to a tier 1 or tier 2 server where such a culture already existed? What was the appeal of being a big fish in a small pond?

There is a common misconception other servers continually make. Big fish, small pond. Badge farming. And ego boost lololing. No. Not even close. Those are outcomes of the inevitable when frustrations are aired publicly for others disgust in what some players wanted to do. They assume the above ^^ but it’s not the case. Truth of the matter is to have more wvw players than less. Yoou cannot move to a t1-t4 server directly en mass. There are plenty of good guilds on declining servers who are looking for more competitive environment. Moving to a server aimed at that focus will provide just that, for them. We don’t want to be in this tier, play styles are far different. We’ve apologized week after week, after being trolled (due to frustrations being aired, and cause and effect).

Yes. Before you say the question, yes it has effects on other servers. Soemtimes negative, which in turn create animosity to us on forums here, and then people boasting about how great they are for some self justification. No idea why, nor do I care. People can do whatever they want. Personally speaking I want to play, and learn from an overall stronger community, which kaineng offers. That does not mean other servers do not have exceptional talented players, teams and guilds. But for some reason it gets construed as such. And in turn becomes some kitten match, I don’t get that, maybe because I’m not in college (sry kids) little older and work in a mature gaming environment.

But wow, I will say this … the road up to an appropriate tier, is painful and long. If there was a way the glicko system can be modified, I would hope it would be to move up multiple brackets taking into account actual wvw participation along side glicko rating.

DarkElvenChic.2618:

Hex, we’re on popcorn batch 30, that’s almost as many cups of coffee as I have on a good reset night! You want the yummy flavors or straight up, man?

White Cheddar please, haven’t had any of that stuff in a couple weeks.

StormWolf.7645:

saiyr.3071:

There are a lot of servers between T2 and T8. I don’t buy it.

And they(not WM…WM had it’s reasons to go to Kaineng, including a long history with us.) sent scouts to a NUMBER of different places. I don’t really care what you do/do not “buy”…There were Scouts for these Guilds on other Servers, but the final choice they made was Kaineng, because when they got here all they had was support. They chose Kaineng because it was the place they felt welcome and at home…What else matters?

So, first you say it’s because “there was no room” but now it’s because they felt all warm and fuzzy inside? Look, I really don’t care what their motivation is. Kaineng hasn’t faced Maguuma so I don’t really know how much it got bandwagoned. All I know is that this has happened before and it was spectacularly dramatic and any WvW centric guild that expected to pile onto a T8 server and not get QQ and QQ about the QQ has been living under a rock. And if they knew that and didn’t care, that’s fine by me, but they should admit to it. Everyone is playing this game to have fun and that’s all it is, only this time it’s at the expense of many other people.

Whatever the outcome of this matchup, know that at the very least, many of our Ehmry Bay people can beat War Machine players in 1v1, like so:
http://imgur.com/G4OEhSN

That guardian and I fought for like 10 minutes because he regenerated to full HP from about 10% remaining health about 5 times before I finally killed him. I also killed one un-guilded Kaineng fighter before him, and I fended off an under-leveled Kaineng fighter who came to assist him. I am a beast in the water. FEAR ME, FOR I AM THE LOCH NESS MONSTER!

But seriously, we win the fair fights. GJ though. You guys really know how to abuse the game mechanics. Then again, it’s the whole streetfighter “play to win” mentality. If it’s in the game, it’s not an exploit, right?

Right. GG. Go repair your armor. See you again soon!

saiyr.3071:

All I know is that this has happened before and it was spectacularly dramatic and any WvW centric guild that expected to pile onto a T8 server and not get QQ and QQ about the QQ has been living under a rock. And if they knew that and didn’t care, that’s fine by me, but they should admit to it.

Ya, just a long … long road. Like walking on hot pavement from the atlantic to the pacific

Interesting analogy, but sure I’m glad you’re comparing T1 to the w/best coast.

Vito Schwam.8791:

Whatever the outcome of this matchup, know that at the very least, many of our Ehmry Bay people can beat War Machine players in 1v1, like so:
http://imgur.com/G4OEhSN

That guardian and I fought for like 10 minutes because he regenerated to full HP from about 10% remaining health about 5 times before I finally killed him. I also killed one un-guilded Kaineng fighter before him, and I fended off an under-leveled Kaineng fighter who came to assist him. I am a beast in the water. FEAR ME, FOR I AM THE LOCH NESS MONSTER!

But seriously, we win the fair fights. GJ though. You guys really know how to abuse the game mechanics. Then again, it’s the whole streetfighter “play to win” mentality. If it’s in the game, it’s not an exploit, right?

Right. GG. Go repair your armor. See you again soon!

The mods have already warned the thread can we not use the “E” and “H” words anymore please?

If you watched WM’s posted vids and actually paid any attention to their tactics you would understand why they generally don’t 1v1, or in some cases can’t do it at all. I don’t mean culling…I mean watch the vids from the WM members and you’d get it.

This isn’t meant as a flame, I just don’t understand why people don’t see it.

saiyr.3071:

Interesting analogy, but sure I’m glad you’re comparing T1 to the w/best coast.

I should have added, while having townsfolks sling mud and flaming bags while passing by

Littlefeather.8623:

I truly am sorry for the WvW state of both of your servers

No need to be sorry, the WvW state of Ehmry Bay is just fine for the people who are on it. Those who didn’t like it left to seek whatever it is they are looking for elsewhere.

This is very much a case of the problem being you. You as in your server, guilds transferring to a rising server because they want to “win”.

Someone else asked in here why people who want to play in T1 would leave a T1 server to join a T8 one. I don’t remember the answer, but no matter what it was, the truth is that people who join a “momentum server” do it because they want easy wins. It doesn’t matter how you turn and twist your rationale to say something to the contrary.

If you’d want top tier gameplay you’d join a top tier server, or don’t leave it in the first place.

Creating a server like Kaineng has become disrupts the normal gameplay of thousands of players as it moves through the tiers for no good reason at all. So while it’s not your personal fault that ArenaNet has created a game mechanic so inflexible that servers who suddenly rise are not appropriately matched but have to become the wrecking ball of normal servers for weeks, you also have to understand why people give you grief over it.

I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but if I didn’t like the gameplay on Ehmry Bay I’d go somewhere else. I don’t need to be pitied for not being on a top tier server because I made the choice to not be on one.

Humpink.2306:

I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but if I didn’t like the gameplay on Ehmry Bay I’d go somewhere else.

Funny you should mention this…it’s the reason those Guilds left their Servers, but because THEY did it…and not you…they’re bad people. You people all make me laugh. Judgemental hypocrisy is at it’s finest on an MMO where everyone got where they are by people transferring, only to result in those same people complaining when others move up via transfers. Name a Server that hasn’t gotten Transfers, just try.

Humpink.2306:

I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but if I didn’t like the gameplay on Ehmry Bay I’d go somewhere else. I don’t need to be pitied for not being on a top tier server because I made the choice to not be on one.

People have there own choice. Your saying everyone on kaineng is here because we all made the same choice is wrong. People have clarified, those who spoke anyhow, on their personal choice. Along with some of the guild decisions made. I really don’t see how you say you have the ability to make your own choice, but we do not? We provide direct answers. Sure I bet there are ‘some’ who fall into your category. But saying everyone on kaineng is = 1 answer, is flawed in your own logic.

I agree to some of what you said, but again… maybe you should just take answer a, being answer a. Not anything else. And sometimes an apology is just an apology to cover en mass, the frusrations expressed from your server and mates who have strong feelings against this type of thing. It’s not pity, little is genuine and communicating as such to those who expressed grief over the issue. Leave it at that.

We all make our own decisions, sometimes by guild, sometimes by person. I hardly believe that we all have the same idea. I moved here for a completely different reason than my guild. But support my guild. Now I support the server. I care less about winning or score. I really could care less about armor repairs and badges (already have a couple gifts, and gear). I care about other things in wvw that matter to me, and how I want to play. The next kaineng player or transfer will also have his/her own opinion, perspective and reasoning. Not the same. Make sense? By your logic, you should be able to understand that.

An assumption is an assumption, which is perfectly fine, just call it what it is.

StormWolf.7645:

Humpink.2306:

I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but if I didn’t like the gameplay on Ehmry Bay I’d go somewhere else.

Funny you should mention this…it’s the reason those Guilds left their Servers, but because THEY did it…and not you…they’re bad people. You people all make me laugh. Judgemental hypocrisy is at it’s finest on an MMO where everyone got where they are by people transferring, only to result in those same people complaining when others move up via transfers. Name a Server that hasn’t gotten Transfers, just try.

There is no hypocrisy. His point isn’t that all people who transfer are evil, he is just upset about more than minor tier imbalance. If you seriously can’t understand why people might be unhappy with that, then I guess there’s nothing left to discuss.

Humpink.2306:

… Someone else asked in here why people who want to play in T1 would leave a T1 server to join a T8 one. I don’t remember the answer, but no matter what it was, the truth is that people who join a “momentum server” do it because they want easy wins. It doesn’t matter how you turn and twist your rationale to say something to the contrary. …

I don’t think so. I asked specifically because, while that feels like the obvious answer (especially when you’re on a 4-person PUG that can’t attack a single dolyak anywhere in a 4 square mile area without instantly being over-run by a bored 30-man swarm), part of me figured that can’t possibly be the answer.

Farther up the thread, you can see why that can’t be the answer: someone from Kaineng admitting that, once we casuals rolled over and mostly stopped even showing up, they (mostly) stopped even getting any decent practice time in. If it takes them four or six weeks of stomping cripples to get back up into tier 3 or 4 (say), what’s going to happen when they get matched up against two servers that have been fighting tier 2-4 opponents the whole last three months? And they have to know that. So I figured that there had to be some explanation; I just couldn’t guess what it was.

That the top-tier servers they wanted to compete with/against were too full for guilds their size, and the need to find a server so small that they could set the culture on it by instantly becoming the majority, those are plausible explanations, it seems to me.

I do remain convinced that it may not have been good for the game for it to have let them, though. Paid server transfers for WvW will be a good thing, if they put a stop to this. Because even if their intent wasn’t to grief every opponent they had to step on to get back into the top tiers (and I accept their word that it wasn’t), I have to say that as a casual player who’s been the recipient of that, it sure felt like it on our end. But, you know, hey. Next week is another week, and presumably we can go back to fighting against fellow casual and RP servers.

I don’t have any issue with people leaving a server to try and find better gameplay for themselves elsewhere, in fact I encourage it because it’s better to leave than make everyone else miserable.

What I question is the expressed motivation to transfer. Someone in here said that “we are on Kaineng because we want to be top tier and we want large scale fights”. That makes zero sense.

EDIT: I get that a T1 server may be full, but there’s T2, T3, T4, no need to go to a T8 if you want to be in T1-3.

I certainly resent a T1 guild, who wants T1 fights yet joins a T8 server to then kitten up the gameplay of dozens of servers and thousands of players for weeks to come.

DarkElvenChic.2618:

Vito Schwam.8791:

Whatever the outcome of this matchup, know that at the very least, many of our Ehmry Bay people can beat War Machine players in 1v1, like so:
http://imgur.com/G4OEhSN

That guardian and I fought for like 10 minutes because he regenerated to full HP from about 10% remaining health about 5 times before I finally killed him. I also killed one un-guilded Kaineng fighter before him, and I fended off an under-leveled Kaineng fighter who came to assist him. I am a beast in the water. FEAR ME, FOR I AM THE LOCH NESS MONSTER!

But seriously, we win the fair fights. GJ though. You guys really know how to abuse the game mechanics. Then again, it’s the whole streetfighter “play to win” mentality. If it’s in the game, it’s not an exploit, right?

Right. GG. Go repair your armor. See you again soon!

The mods have already warned the thread can we not use the “E” and “H” words anymore please?

If you watched WM’s posted vids and actually paid any attention to their tactics you would understand why they generally don’t 1v1, or in some cases can’t do it at all. I don’t mean culling…I mean watch the vids from the WM members and you’d get it.

This isn’t meant as a flame, I just don’t understand why people don’t see it.

Generally, it’s a bad idea to draw assumptions off of a few fights. Every guild is going to have it’s star players. Every guild is going to have their good moments and their bad moments. RE surely has some good players in it as does WM.

The problem is that when you have guilds that large you are bound to have some people who aren’t as experienced in PvP that might not do that well.

I’m just posting movies of what happened. We (when I was present) have beaten WM in our relatively even numbered fights. I’m not going to take that and say that WM sucks or something stupid like that.

With that said, we do have a natural bias against people who we feel succeed due to mainly having numbers.

You guys are going to get this thread locked. Please keep the discussion limited to the current match up and try to be friendly. If you want to accuse people of “bandwagoning” and “Ruining WvW” make a separate thread and get your infactions there instead.

saiyr.3071:

Favorite parts of the video:
- “WAR MACHIIIIIINE”

This made me lol

Now I see why a bunch of DR came out of nowhere and ran me over at the windmill. Guess they saw the RE tag and assumed I was involved. Thing is I literally did not see them until they were right on me. I assume that culling was involved there. I found all this interesting considering I was “visiting” (emotes) a DR asura ranger at the time this was going on. I guess I was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

It’s almost time for the big FC! Getcha battle paint on and skimpy skirts for the cheer-leading spectators (esp Norn males).

You forgot the #1 rule there. Anyhooo, see you in a few…

Been a fun week, Us purgies have been having a blast running around out there. When your side doesn’t take anything you can just run around and harrass folks all day, been a nice change from our normal defense stuff. Almost feels dirty to say it.. but i see what Magumamemumama sees in this roaming thing.

Plutonium.1308:

Been a fun week, Us purgies have been having a blast running around out there. When your side doesn’t take anything you can just run around and harrass folks all day, been a nice change from our normal defense stuff. Almost feels dirty to say it.. but i see what Magumamemumama sees in this roaming thing.

I feel obligated to interject and say we are not this person’s “mama”.

Littlefeather.8623:

! Fight Club !

Time: 4PM PST, tomorrow (Thursday)
Location: Kaineng BL, south supply camp

This is where we can show our skill, but at the same time relieve some stress. With the score being what it is now, we can still have some fun. This is what Fight Club is all about. If you’re friendly, want to get to know people or guilds from other servers, and can wait in line, then your invited

We can party up to chat it up or you can even vent up with us to help keep your side coordinated throughout the event

Rules:

1. Opponents must be identified, usually by entering the ring or going up to one another. Usually form line ups single file no budging.
2. Both opponents must do a /bow before the fight starts
3. Once a player is down the fight stops and both /bow and exit the ring

You can stay on your servers side of the area if your shy lol ;p, or mingle and costume brawl while your waiting as well

1v1
2v2
3v3
4v4
5v5
Golem v Golem
etc.

Bring your own beer and enjoy and have fun, hope to see every one there

Just going to re-iterate the above … and also ask if there are any DR or Ebay guys who may want to do a golem vs golem? Or maybe more would love to do a 3 way golem brawl 2v2v2? … Being on kaineng borderlands, can make them ahead of time from the camps directly outside your spawn exit (SE, SW)

Instead of bowing we can just /sleep and wake? Just tossing it out there for the fraps guys … I think it would be a neat thing to capture and share in a video with some cheese music, or to have on hand for personal guild videos. The ‘we like to have fun too side of things’.

Sadly at work till 5pm pst, and won’t be able to get there till about 6-6:30ish.

JudgeD.5673:

Now I see why a bunch of DR came out of nowhere and ran me over at the windmill. Guess they saw the RE tag and assumed I was involved. Thing is I literally did not see them until they were right on me. I assume that culling was involved there. I found all this interesting considering I was “visiting” (emotes) a DR asura ranger at the time this was going on. I guess I was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

No culling involved, it’s called Veil. Very useful.

You guys were at the north side of the windmill and didn’t even look down the hill and see us streaming up around the east side and around the back. If you’d had scouts posted, or more situational awareness/paranoia, or if the guys we’d just wiped had the courtesy to warn you we were going back to the south you all could have teleported out way ahead of us.

It’s not safe out there; nor is it for the timid.

Attic.1562:

JudgeD.5673:

Now I see why a bunch of DR came out of nowhere and ran me over at the windmill. Guess they saw the RE tag and assumed I was involved. Thing is I literally did not see them until they were right on me. I assume that culling was involved there. I found all this interesting considering I was “visiting” (emotes) a DR asura ranger at the time this was going on. I guess I was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

No culling involved, it’s called Veil. Very useful.

You guys were at the north side of the windmill and didn’t even look down the hill and see us streaming up around the east side and around the back. If you’d had scouts posted, or more situational awareness/paranoia, or if the guys we’d just wiped had the courtesy to warn you we were going back to the south you all could have teleported out way ahead of us.

It’s not safe out there; nor is it for the timid.

Eh, they probably did warn us…but then, when afk warnings don’t help. Nbd, WP, pay cheap repair bill, go back afk. Problem solved! ^.^

I’m breaking the rule b/c…hehehehe it’s FC NIGHT!

I was just there to be a nib due to the presence of WM actually. Had no idea what was going on down the hill.
To the GH ele at Titan: congrats, you got me good. I assumed you were running away and stopped to /bow, but you were just healing (I didn’t chase you either cause I assumed you had speed buff). No idea what your build is, but I’m assuming 30 earth cause I could not put a dent in you. I’m bad at 1v1 anyway, but you are def. better than me.

Attic.1562:

No culling involved, it’s called Veil. Very useful.

Veil is a stealth ability – all stealth abilities involve culling to some degree, especially if you’re talking about a large group of players. It’s the majority of the reason for the myriad of “I hate thieves” posts.

I actually think his post was in respect to the fact he went to visit a comrade or friend from DR. Or there was some arrange meeting place for them (whether duel or dance or anything doesn’t matter- almost sounds like friend to friend personal opinion of course). Why would an individual ever want to scout for this attic (would be beyond me)? I think none of the below is even relevant.

Attic.1562:

JudgeD.5673:

Now I see why a bunch of DR came out of nowhere and ran me over at the windmill. Guess they saw the RE tag and assumed I was involved. Thing is I literally did not see them until they were right on me. I assume that culling was involved there. I found all this interesting considering I was “visiting” (emotes) a DR asura ranger at the time this was going on. I guess I was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

If you’d had scouts posted, or more situational awareness/paranoia, or if the guys we’d just wiped had the courtesy to warn you we were going back to the south you all could have teleported out way ahead of us.

It’s not safe out there; nor is it for the timid.

Just my take though. Seems like he says it plain and simple. Wrong place, wrong time. I read it as random coincidence, and completely unrelated to any of the events. I think that’s what he is saying

Not, anything related to your answer. More like an ‘ah, that’s what happened there moment, haha – in light fashion’ But glad you felt like tossin the wvw book at him on protocol of how he should approach the scary land that is Borderlands. <bop you on head silly>

Oozo.7856:

DarkElvenChic.2618:

Vito Schwam.8791:

-snip-

-snip-

Generally, it’s a bad idea to draw assumptions off of a few fights. Every guild is going to have it’s star players. Every guild is going to have their good moments and their bad moments. RE surely has some good players in it as does WM.

The problem is that when you have guilds that large you are bound to have some people who aren’t as experienced in PvP that might not do that well.

I’m just posting movies of what happened. We (when I was present) have beaten WM in our relatively even numbered fights. I’m not going to take that and say that WM sucks or something stupid like that.

With that said, we do have a natural bias against people who we feel succeed due to mainly having numbers.

Of course one fight isn’t representative of an entire guild, and I absolutely agree. I suppose the main reason I wanted to post this was because of how the fight progressed.

I suppose the point I was trying to illustrate was what you stated, that being the “natural bias against people who we feel succeed due to ______” when the blank is something that’s not really an even playing field. In the broader perspective of this week’s match, it’s the bandwagon transfers and ridiculous imbalance of player numbers on the field. In terms of this specific battle, it’s the imbalance of how this Guardian set their traits vs. the limitations of my Mesmer, but the difference being that in this particular case, my skill was greater than their manipulation of the game mechanics.

I know Guardians are supposed to heal and be very tough to kill. I get that. But no class was meant to out-heal anyone 5 freaking times from 10% to 100% before they finally died, while doing the same amount of damage as their opponent. At least not to my knowledge. Please correct me if I’m wrong…

Ultimately though, the point of my post was to illustrate that even with the odds against us, Ehmry Bay and its fighters (of which I am only a mediocre representative) are not something with which to be trifled. Maybe that point got lost in my using the “E” and “H” words (which one’s the “H” word?).

I will admit I haven’t watched [WM] videos. I’m going to venture a guess and say the reason they don’t 1v1 is generally because they would lose? I mean, you can slice it any way you want, but ultimately you’re saying the same thing, “we can’t win a fair fight, so somehow we have to tip the scales”. This is what I’ve observed on part of [WM] in this match, and given that observation, I’m not sure I want to watch their videos.

To contrast this, [WM] was an amazing guild in Guild Wars 1, one with whom I had the honor and the pleasure to skirmish with once, who absolutely just blew my guild and I out of the water with not even an ounce of proximity on our part. I’m not saying they’re not skilled. What I am saying is that they should be above the crap I’ve been seeing lately. I’m saying, they’re better than that.

Well, Hexin, you have it mostly right. The asura though was some random dude from DR. I don’t know him personally. I guess the whole thing is what happens when you don’t have situational awareness.

Vito Schwam.8791:

Oozo.7856:

DarkElvenChic.2618:

Vito Schwam.8791:

-snip-

-snip-

Generally, it’s a bad idea to draw assumptions off of a few fights. Every guild is going to have it’s star players. Every guild is going to have their good moments and their bad moments. RE surely has some good players in it as does WM.

The problem is that when you have guilds that large you are bound to have some people who aren’t as experienced in PvP that might not do that well.

I’m just posting movies of what happened. We (when I was present) have beaten WM in our relatively even numbered fights. I’m not going to take that and say that WM sucks or something stupid like that.

With that said, we do have a natural bias against people who we feel succeed due to mainly having numbers.

Of course one fight isn’t representative of an entire guild, and I absolutely agree. I suppose the main reason I wanted to post this was because of how the fight progressed.

I suppose the point I was trying to illustrate was what you stated, that being the “natural bias against people who we feel succeed due to ______” when the blank is something that’s not really an even playing field. In the broader perspective of this week’s match, it’s the bandwagon transfers and ridiculous imbalance of player numbers on the field. In terms of this specific battle, it’s the imbalance of how this Guardian set their traits vs. the limitations of my Mesmer, but the difference being that in this particular case, my skill was greater than their manipulation of the game mechanics.

I know Guardians are supposed to heal and be very tough to kill. I get that. But no class was meant to out-heal anyone 5 freaking times from 10% to 100% before they finally died, while doing the same amount of damage as their opponent. At least not to my knowledge. Please correct me if I’m wrong…

Ultimately though, the point of my post was to illustrate that even with the odds against us, Ehmry Bay and its fighters (of which I am only a mediocre representative) are not something with which to be trifled. Maybe that point got lost in my using the “E” and “H” words (which one’s the “H” word?).

I will admit I haven’t watched [WM] videos. I’m going to venture a guess and say the reason they don’t 1v1 is generally because they would lose? I mean, you can slice it any way you want, but ultimately you’re saying the same thing, “we can’t win a fair fight, so somehow we have to tip the scales”. This is what I’ve observed on part of [WM] in this match, and given that observation, I’m not sure I want to watch their videos.

To contrast this, [WM] was an amazing guild in Guild Wars 1, one with whom I had the honor and the pleasure to skirmish with once, who absolutely just blew my guild and I out of the water with not even an ounce of proximity on our part. I’m not saying they’re not skilled. What I am saying is that they should be above the crap I’ve been seeing lately. I’m saying, they’re better than that.

I dont think its really fair to say no one in that guild would win in a 1v1. Its a pretty big guild. Dont generalize it like that. Sure they probably have a few baddies. Show me a guild that doesnt? When you have personally 1v1ed everyone (underleveleds not included) and wiped the floor with all of them then I would say its fair to knock them for being bad individually.

Personally I havent seen a whole lot of them this match save for reset night. We were working side by side with them on EB. They were a brutally efficient zerg.

Vito Schwam.8791:

I will admit I haven’t watched [WM] videos. I’m going to venture a guess and say the reason they don’t 1v1 is generally because they would lose? I mean, you can slice it any way you want, but ultimately you’re saying the same thing, “we can’t win a fair fight, so somehow we have to tip the scales”. This is what I’ve observed on part of [WM] in this match, and given that observation, I’m not sure I want to watch their videos.

If all things were equal WM would lose the 1 on 1 because they have to deal with an oceanic ping.

Really a US player vs a Korean player isnt a fair match from the start, they have to play better than you to win because they cant reflex certain things. If you want to experience this transfer to a Euro server for a bit, though US→Euro isnt as bad as Oceanic→US.

Well, I see this thread has kind of degraded into (mostly) anger towards Kaineng so I’ll try to be brief.

I wish EB and Dev nothing but luck and good times in their future matches. I realize it may have been frustrating to fight against a server with such a sudden influx of WvW guilds but at least it’s almost done now.

I pretty much only did the JPs this week because PvD is not my cup of tea. Hopefully next week will be more even for all of us :-)

As for all those insulting us for switching servers, hate all you like. I know why I switched and all your accusations really make no difference to me. I will say that I didn’t join just to harvest badges from lower tier servers and, in fact, I’ve gotten less badges in the two weeks that I’ve been on Kaineng fighting doors that I would usually get in a single week of T1 WvW. I – and I could probably say ‘we’ for the most part – didn’t come here just to feel powerful. I’d go into more detail as to why I came here but I have a feeling I’d just get flamed for doing so.

Instead I’ll just give best wishes and kindest regards to both your servers and a big thank you to Kaineng for welcoming so many of us with open arms. You guys asked for WvW guilds and kept a fantastic attitude towards WvW even when you were dead last. It will be a pleasure playing with you and look forward to meeting more of you in both battlegrounds and PvE Tyria :-)

Vito Schwam.8791:

Oozo.7856:

DarkElvenChic.2618:

Vito Schwam.8791:

-snip-

-snip-

snip

Of course one fight isn’t representative of an entire guild, and I absolutely agree. I suppose the main reason I wanted to post this was because of how the fight progressed.

I suppose the point I was trying to illustrate was what you stated, that being the “natural bias against people who we feel succeed due to ______” when the blank is something that’s not really an even playing field. In the broader perspective of this week’s match, it’s the bandwagon transfers and ridiculous imbalance of player numbers on the field. In terms of this specific battle, it’s the imbalance of how this Guardian set their traits vs. the limitations of my Mesmer, but the difference being that in this particular case, my skill was greater than their manipulation of the game mechanics.

I know Guardians are supposed to heal and be very tough to kill. I get that. But no class was meant to out-heal anyone 5 freaking times from 10% to 100% before they finally died, while doing the same amount of damage as their opponent. At least not to my knowledge. Please correct me if I’m wrong…

Ultimately though, the point of my post was to illustrate that even with the odds against us, Ehmry Bay and its fighters (of which I am only a mediocre representative) are not something with which to be trifled. Maybe that point got lost in my using the “E” and “H” words (which one’s the “H” word?).

I will admit I haven’t watched [WM] videos. I’m going to venture a guess and say the reason they don’t 1v1 is generally because they would lose? I mean, you can slice it any way you want, but ultimately you’re saying the same thing, “we can’t win a fair fight, so somehow we have to tip the scales”. This is what I’ve observed on part of [WM] in this match, and given that observation, I’m not sure I want to watch their videos.

To contrast this, [WM] was an amazing guild in Guild Wars 1, one with whom I had the honor and the pleasure to skirmish with once, who absolutely just blew my guild and I out of the water with not even an ounce of proximity on our part. I’m not saying they’re not skilled. What I am saying is that they should be above the crap I’ve been seeing lately. I’m saying, they’re better than that.

You didn’t use the “H” word I was just expecting it any minute now in the thread somewhere and trying to remind ppl to avoid it.

[WM] is still [WM] from GW1 though naturally some ppl have come and gone. At least to my understanding. The difference being…they now generally run with 15-30 people rather than the meta GvG teams of GW1.

They focus on group benefit not player benefit. There I loosely interpreted the video for you. You can take from this what you will. Though they’re still worth watching, imo.

While you’re only seeing WM when outnumbered, I’ve watched with glee as they charged into the midst of 40-60 man “whole server zergs” with their 15 guildies and totally demolished them. It’s almost spellbinding to watch them move in near perfect concert given all the distractions, lag, culling, stealth, portal bombs and whatnot that are the WvW norm. It’s not the numbers that are so interesting it’s the coordination and sheer discipline they show.

So yeah, you’ll have forgive me if I happen to be of a different opinion than you. At same time I happily admit you’re entitled to yours!

Cheers and best of luck to everyone in the coming week and at fight club! Not sure how much I’ll be around till reset time.

Edit: By everyone I include our opponents, and hope you all show up to fight club for some much needed stress relief and good old fashioned fun. It’ll get you pumped for reset night! Best of luck in your next matchup.

DarkElvenChic.2618:

While you’re only seeing WM when outnumbered, I’ve watched with glee as they charged into the midst of 40-60 man “whole server zergs” with their 15 guildies and totally demolished them. It’s almost spellbinding to watch them move in near perfect concert given all the distractions, lag, culling, stealth, portal bombs and whatnot that are the WvW norm. It’s not the numbers that are so interesting it’s the coordination and sheer discipline they show.

So yeah, you’ll have forgive me if I happen to be of a different opinion than you. At same time I happily admit you’re entitled to yours!

Cheers and best of luck to everyone in the coming week and at fight club! Not sure how much I’ll be around till reset time.

Well said. It’s important to not that this is not and was never meant to be a 1v1 game. Beating someone in a 1v1 match is well and good but it’s not surprising that someone who flourishes amid combo fields and is built to fight groups of enemies would fall to someone built for a 1v1 fight.

[WM] is very strong and very skilled (I played with them on SBI a lot) so I would say watch their group tactics and judge from that. They work together, keep an eye on the members of their party, and use positioning plus combo fields to their advantage. As you said, I’ve watched a small group of them jump into the fray while hopelessly outnumbered and come out on top. I’ve also seen a party of 5 of them (and 5 of us) defend a tower from an entire swarm of enemy HoDs. The enemy inevitably broke in and my party took the stairs, figuring we would hold them there. They never got past the [WM] party at the gate in enough force to give us any trouble.

They may not all be good but some of them are amazingly good.

Dhampyr.2104:

Attic.1562:

No culling involved, it’s called Veil. Very useful.

Veil is a stealth ability – all stealth abilities involve culling to some degree, especially if you’re talking about a large group of players. It’s the majority of the reason for the myriad of “I hate thieves” posts.

True, but anyone who has issues rendering ~20 character models needs to stop playing on their Gameboy and upgrade their rig.

We all have those situational awareness moments. Ever have a laugh about something with a guild mate while in open field ;-) … you are not alone. In fact, sometime this week, I sat , afk’d right out front of a spawn, while pm’ing a guild member about something completely unrelated (where my brother was, so was looking through menu’s and such, with I’m chat open typing – no wasd able to function), got jumped started to lose health, and had a mad dash to close windows. Any else here have a wife/gf/kids/ happens to many people. Not every minute can we be 100% on our game in a dead week. Hell happens in busy weeks too. I guess i’m just trying to say, human nature … timing, coincidences always occur.

To the ebay folk, and DR folk who I’ve had some pleasure in battling and yes toying with each other a bit, hope all sides shared in some fun this week (even in your own ways). Also going to toss out a BIG THANK YOU … to the many who offered some good constructive discussions for everyone earlier on regarding the week, and those who helped seeing things from multiple sides before speaking, understnading all sides or trying to at least. They may have been far from many, but it’s appreciated and sheds light on events of the week, and adds a little to the community.

Best of luck in future battles ;-)

There is also a DR guy … I think it’s jamesigall.5938 – you sir, do a kind act for the server. I hope your folks there understand this. It’s good too see the battlelog and tale being told, in fact inspirational. I hope it brings DR players who can’t wait until Kain leaves, back to your side and more glorious tales can be told, whether in victory or defeat.

Oozo.7856:

saiyr.3071:

Dynnen.6405:

2) Most commanders demand revives even when stomped, which pulls players from the fight

Funny, on Maguuma my experience is quite the opposite…commanders on Mumble are yelling for people not to revive because it’s a waste of time. People do it anyway, of course…

Well, as we’ve mentioned more than once, Maguuma has the best rank and file (PUGs) that we’ve encountered so far. We will be pulling for Mag when you run into Kaineng.

I’m pretty sure that Mag will beat Kaineng in traditional open field fights. I’m not sure how Mag will do against the 40man mobile zergballs that abuse culling, the AoE cap code, and lag your client when they hit.

Do you realize that this lag you speak of affects everyone? Not just your people but also those in the zerg?

You say that like we do it on purpose when it’s actually a problem with the inefficient client we can do nothing about.

fellyn.5083:

Oozo.7856:

saiyr.3071:

Dynnen.6405:

2) Most commanders demand revives even when stomped, which pulls players from the fight

Funny, on Maguuma my experience is quite the opposite…commanders on Mumble are yelling for people not to revive because it’s a waste of time. People do it anyway, of course…

Well, as we’ve mentioned more than once, Maguuma has the best rank and file (PUGs) that we’ve encountered so far. We will be pulling for Mag when you run into Kaineng.

I’m pretty sure that Mag will beat Kaineng in traditional open field fights. I’m not sure how Mag will do against the 40man mobile zergballs that abuse culling, the AoE cap code, and lag your client when they hit.

Do you realize that this lag you speak of affects everyone? Not just your people but also those in the zerg?

You say that like we do it on purpose when it’s actually a problem with the inefficient client we can do nothing about.

I’ve fought in a lot of zergy situations before where utilities become unavailable due to lag. I know it’s not intentional. Typically this has only happened to me in huge 3way garrison or SM fights.

What is happening here is something I’ve never encountered before in open field fights. Normal zergs haven’t caused this type of UI freeze in the open field. It’s been the tightly packed zergballs that have caused it. I’m not sure why.

Again, I’m not accusing anyone of doing something intentionally but it is happening.

http://youtu.be/8VSrx8GWwbM

http://youtu.be/Rfe3k7Cnl80

will update more.

Enjoyable video’s , well done.
My only complaint … you are abusing the heck out of culling via stealth’s. Other than that, well done indeed.

Impressive aura sharing and blast finisher’s in general as well.

alexdawn.6387:

http://youtu.be/8VSrx8GWwbM

http://youtu.be/Rfe3k7Cnl80

will update more.

Nice coordination and maneuvering. I really dont know where the botting thing came from, but the culling spam/exploiting is just atrocious.

alexdawn.6387:

http://youtu.be/8VSrx8GWwbM

http://youtu.be/Rfe3k7Cnl80

will update more.

Very cool movies. GL resolving your issue with Anet.

Littlefeather.8623:

Jaytee.9513:

Littlefeather.8623:

I can assure you, that no one from Rethesis has transferred to exploit anything. Again, we chose to transfer to make a WvW focused server, from the bottom up. This requires night time presence as well as NA presence. This is a great combination right now for Kaineng, and at the right time.

If that is what you believe then i can’t gainsay you. I’m just saying what many others are feeling.. This is something you shouldn’t deny………..

Can you empathize with the facts that disruptive events like this destroys the enjoyment factor for the casual player?

Yes I agree, to every decision there is a cause and effect. But we did not come here for this sole intention, I am sorry with the state of WvW in this tier at this moment, I really do apologize, I know its crappy for DR and EB, no one negates that. But our intent was to create WvW focused server, which is now Kaineng. Again, I understand, the guild I am in has been there too, and it is very disheartening, so I do understand.

Apologizing does not rectify the situation when the majority of posts coming from your server seem to defend your actions at griefing the lower lvl tiers. To say that your leaders did not plan it out this way is like saying your guilds never did wvw before……. which we know is not true.

There is no doubt in my mind that griefing the lower tiers was intended to cause bandwagoning at the expense of alot of players enjoyment.

ANET is the ones who should be apologizing for allowing such actions to take place to begin with. Breaking the tier ranking system in my eyes is a severe exploit causing many people to leave out of frustration.

Judas.5432:

DarkElvenChic.2618:

While you’re only seeing WM when outnumbered, I’ve watched with glee as they charged into the midst of 40-60 man “whole server zergs” with their 15 guildies and totally demolished them. It’s almost spellbinding to watch them move in near perfect concert given all the distractions, lag, culling, stealth, portal bombs and whatnot that are the WvW norm. It’s not the numbers that are so interesting it’s the coordination and sheer discipline they show.

So yeah, you’ll have forgive me if I happen to be of a different opinion than you. At same time I happily admit you’re entitled to yours!

Cheers and best of luck to everyone in the coming week and at fight club! Not sure how much I’ll be around till reset time.

Well said. It’s important to not that this is not and was never meant to be a 1v1 game. Beating someone in a 1v1 match is well and good but it’s not surprising that someone who flourishes amid combo fields and is built to fight groups of enemies would fall to someone built for a 1v1 fight.

[WM] is very strong and very skilled (I played with them on SBI a lot) so I would say watch their group tactics and judge from that. They work together, keep an eye on the members of their party, and use positioning plus combo fields to their advantage. As you said, I’ve watched a small group of them jump into the fray while hopelessly outnumbered and come out on top. I’ve also seen a party of 5 of them (and 5 of us) defend a tower from an entire swarm of enemy HoDs. The enemy inevitably broke in and my party took the stairs, figuring we would hold them there. They never got past the [WM] party at the gate in enough force to give us any trouble.

They may not all be good but some of them are amazingly good.

Yeah, and this I’ll definitely acknowledge. Obviously, if you took the top 15 players in TOAD and put them against the top 15 players in War Machine, War Machine would be eating 15 sets of toad legs. I’m not stupid enough to deny that. At the same time, it is kind of frustrating to have lost to a game mechanic as opposed to losing to skill, like dying because of culling or because of an inherent imbalance in the game between two classes (not saying that there is or isn’t one in my case, but just generally speaking), which I guess was ultimately the reason for my post.

One thing I will say in your favor as a server, Kaineng has been one of the most civil and classy opponents I’ve ever faced on Ehmry Bay. I haven’t seen a discussion, personally, degenerate into outright flaming between either party, and that’s something for which I definitely need to commend you guys not only as individuals, but also as collective guilds and as a server. (However, do inform the impostor [TOAD] guild on your server that we are gunning for them. There can only be one [TOAD]!!!!!!)

Attic, it was that veil ability, cause my processor is only limited by the game engine. Beside, why would I be looking for trouble when I didn’t expect any? Jumping me and then saying it’s my fault for being there isn’t exactly fair you know. But then this is a Kaineng thread, and we all know what that means…

InfamousBrad.5879:

Having caught up on and reviewed the thread, there’s a purely theoretical question that won’t leave my mind:

Is it, in fact, good game design to let guilds migrate down? To transfer from high-ranking PvP servers to lower-ranking ones? Never mind that it’s probably impossible to stop if you allow server moves at all, how much of this week’s drama was created by this one design decision?

Having all these high-ranking guilds deliberately drop all the way down to the bottom of the WvW ratings and work their way up again feels, to me, like it griefed a whole lot of people. It guaranteed them a steady stream of opponents who could do nothing but feed them free XP and free loot bags, while costing those opponents more in armor repairs (on top of anything else) than they could possibly earn back. That seems, to my admittedly very limited perspective, to be the source of a lot of QQing: that a lot of us who aren’t on Kaineng feel like it was an abuse of the match-up system to expect us to fight these guys, like having a world heavyweight boxing contender show up at your local gym and go all-out on the local players because he needs some easy wins to boost his confidence or his career stats or something, like having an NFL team practice on a Pee Wee league team.

I’ve only barely thought about this enough to realize that it’s probably not stoppable. Even if you only allowed people in guilds on high-ranked servers to transfer laterally or up, they’d just quit the guild, then transfer, right? It’s not like you could tag every account with a lifetime WvW score, could you, and lock them from transferring to servers full of noobs? Right? I’m not being sarcastic here, I’m thinking out loud; this is the best I could come up with, and I feel like there are probably easily poked holes in the design.

That being said, a question: if you transferred to a tier-15 server from a tier-4 server in hopes of building a WvW culture from the ground up? Why didn’t you, instead, transfer to a tier 1 or tier 2 server where such a culture already existed? What was the appeal of being a big fish in a small pond?

That sir, would be a sellout, like every other guild who transferd there to login and win. We didnt want to go out like that, we want to earn it. It is different.

Had fun at fight club tonight but had to log early for work! Looks like majorfail tried to ruin everyone’s fun. Great job moving to another BL and getting everything set up again. Haters gonna hate, and crashers gonna crash I guess. Stay classy majornoob.

A good group is not made out of skilled players but players who work well together, covering each other’s weaknesses and enhancing friendly abilities. No matter what guild or server you’re in, this can be achieved through great communication.

StormWolf.7645:

For those claiming numbers =/= Win: Devona is currently in KBL with about twice the numbers(I believe more, I’m underexaggerating atm, seriously.) that we have. It’s seriously getting old having to be on for ridiculous hours to protect our stuff because there’s NO ONE on to defend against the DR horde.

For those who feel proud of themselves for their “Accomplishments” this night…You’re very sad people. You can be happy because you’re winning…but it’s nothing to brag about taking nearly undefended Towers. -.- It also isn’t “Skill”. Skill was earlier when they broke the outer and inner gates of Hills and got in…Yes we beat them with a meat-grinder, but it was skill and kitten good planning. What’s happening now is…depressing.

Finally got a look at their numbers. They officially have a MINIMUM of 15 times our number on. Sigh. I think I give up on WvW.

Just insert anytime you see DR with Kaineng now and I agree it is depressing

My only problem with kain has been how bad their playets are.

Having 20 WM chase you around for an hour because you destroyed one of their commanders just speaks poorly of that guild.

Specially when you separate and slaughter a few of em during said merry chase.

Either way g’luck and zerg on Kain

Jinks.2057:

My only problem with kain has been how bad their playets are.

Having 20 WM chase you around for an hour because you destroyed one of their commanders just speaks poorly of that guild.

Specially when you separate and slaughter a few of em during said merry chase.

Either way g’luck and zerg on Kain

You just spoke of only one guild as if it makes up for the entire server. I also might suggest toning the exaggeration down. You sound like you’ve been beaten down and want to get back at them here in the forums.