Guild Wars 2

so fort apsenwood keep in EB was permenantly contested for the entire day because 1 stealth build thief would simply stealth inside, hit the gate, restealth, teleport away, for the entire day. what is the point of a waypoint upgrade if all it takes is ONE thief to make it useless? why can you not make it that you need a certain amount of people to hit it before it becomes contested?

how about you kill him? Not that hard to do if you have an entire day to chase him around. Just grab some hard cc and hunt him down with 5 guys…

Killing him doesn’t really prevent it, he can probably run back before the 3 minutes is up if he is determined.

My view is that the gate should take at least 1% dmg , and be down to below 99% total before it becomes contested from people hitting it.

you think we havent tried? we got 30man zerg camping the gate, he still slips pass… he hits the gate and instantly restealth… you cant even see him, the npc guards dont even have time to react…

SpedalFlux.1520:

you think we havent tried? we got 30man zerg camping the gate, he still slips pass… he hits the gate and instantly restealth… you cant even see him, the npc guards dont even have time to react…

Another post reagarding OP class in WvW. I just talked about stealth is OP, and there you are a good example XD. 1 vs 30 and nothing can be done. :P

wow an entire day and here I thought I was good at contesting waypoints and kittenzle. This thief should be someone for all thieves to aspire to!

What does this has to with stealth? Any class can lick a door and suddenly the entire keep/castle is under attack.

Put trigger-able AoE everywhere :P Necromancers are able to lay down marks with their staff, & Rangers are able to lay down traps.

Can send a pet from 3k range to attack the gate!

NPCs have instant reaction time, they chase the thief as soon as he unstealths and unlike humans, they dont need to be able to see the model in order to target it. A thief now has to wait 3 seconds after coming out of stealth before he can restealth, which is plenty of time to get a reaction from NPCs. If you don’t see one, he’s probably hitting another gate and you need to get sentries at all of them.

It’s a valid tactic and about the most useful thing a thief can do in wvw.

its not just about stealth, its about the mechanic, 1 person doing 1 hit on the gate shouldn’t make it contested for freakin 10 minutes and then only to have them do it again and again

It wasn’t for the entire day tbh it was more like 3 to 5 hours at most its nothing compare to that Fa Thief which contest keeps every single day. I’m sure ppl from the match up in WvW notice who that thief is.

Same thief was also getting inside of SM and attacking people trebbing, with no walls knocked down, somehow. Granted it was very amusing because they did nothing at all, but still it shouldn’t have been happening to begin with.

I’ve personally never felt so satisfied killing a thief in a long long time. xD

They should really change how the contest system works, its only going to encourage more theives who can harass entire servers even if the player’s skill level is bad, then abuse stealth and hardly ever get caught. Its really easy to do nothing but run away, and even if they die they can get back by the time the timer is up.

How about this? Change wp to red color (like a warning) when npc is in combat and still allow people to use wp at the time. Then wp is changed to contested when npc is wiped at any time (note npc is respawned if the battle lasts long). If npc is respawned, wp is back in red and is accessable. So only make wp contested if npc is wiped.

You had the chance to wp when you could when it’s showing red. When npc is wiped and wp is contested for real, you are paying for your ignorance if you did not wp when you could.

So if you have a sizable zerg attacking a gate, npc is wiped pretty fast, which make the red wp window small (I think is reasonable). If it’s a small group attacking a gate and the battle takes long, some npc would respawn after their first wipe and wp goes to red again allowing defenders to wp at that small window before the respawned npc is wiped again. It makes sense tower/keep should be hard to cap, so allowing defenders more chance to wp is reasonable.

BBMouse.6510:

How about this? Change wp to red color (like a warning) when npc is in combat and still allow people to use wp at the time. Then wp is changed to contested when npc is wiped at any time (note npc is respawned if the battle lasts long). If npc is respawned, wp is back in red and is accessable. So only make wp contested if npc is wiped.

You had the chance to wp when you could when it’s showing red. When npc is wiped and wp is contested for real, you are paying for your ignorance if you did not wp when you could.

So if you have a sizable zerg attacking a gate, npc is wiped pretty fast, which make the red wp window small (I think is reasonable). If it’s a small group attacking a gate and the battle takes long, some npc would respawn after their first wipe and wp goes to red again allowing defenders to wp at that small window before the respawned npc is wiped again. It makes sense tower/keep should be hard to cap, so allowing defenders more chance to wp is reasonable.

YES! thats along the lines of what i had in mind, let the waypoint be contested only after the NPCs at one of the gates are completely wiped or make a special NPC that upon killed will contest the wp, this gives a precious minute or two for the players to react and go to the wp instead of being instantly locked out. and it will also prevent the wp being perma-contested by one annoying little thief

You know it takes a dedicated player to do that.

You can easily send someone to do that as well. It’s a tactic.

Invisibility causing problem for ya? Haha, same old.

Rule #1. Do not put invisibility in multiplayer games.

Contesting enemy property is a decent and valid tactic, use scouts to counter easily.

Svarty.8019:

Invisibility causing problem for ya? Haha, same old.

Rule #1. DO NOT PUT INVISIBILITY IN MULTIPLAYER GAMES.

The base problem here isn’t the stealth though. Pretty much any class can do what that thief did, albeit with a tad more effort. Sneezing at a gate shouldn’t contest a keep.

BBMouse.6510:

SpedalFlux.1520:

you think we havent tried? we got 30man zerg camping the gate, he still slips pass… he hits the gate and instantly restealth… you cant even see him, the npc guards dont even have time to react…

Another post reagarding OP class in WvW. I just talked about stealth is OP, and there you are a good example XD. 1 vs 30 and nothing can be done. :P

Those 30 players should be embarrassed.

Xirin.8593:

BBMouse.6510:

SpedalFlux.1520:

you think we havent tried? we got 30man zerg camping the gate, he still slips pass… he hits the gate and instantly restealth… you cant even see him, the npc guards dont even have time to react…

Another post reagarding OP class in WvW. I just talked about stealth is OP, and there you are a good example XD. 1 vs 30 and nothing can be done. :P

Those 30 players should be embarrassed.

i’m not sure. i think 30 is enough to say they were about average.

Were as i don’t think Thiefs in general are the problem (or are OP at all) i do think they need to change the one person can contest a waypoint issue.

Something like waypoints should only be contested when siege is hitting the keep.

neruson.4978:

It wasn’t for the entire day tbh it was more like 3 to 5 hours at most its nothing compare to that Fa Thief which contest keeps every single day. I’m sure ppl from the match up in WvW notice who that thief is.

Oh you mean yourself? No idea why you were in/how you got into SMC when the walls/gates weren’t down.

Leave it as is and just deal with it.

I wish I could hit a gate all day, but I’d get bored and wander off. More power to thief who can focus.

“Boards… don’t hit back.” Yeah, well, neither do gates, but their guards… meh.

Would be a great thing if there were such things as trapwires, traps, guardianwalls, entangles etc. But as there arent, you cannt do anything about one thief with your 30 ppl.

Oh, wait…

30 ppl cant kill a thief?
Necro can use marks, Ranger Traps and Engeneer Turrets.

There should be not Waypoints at all. Maps are small enough as it is.

/agree Zumy you just can’t do anything isn’t that sad!!!

From a thief that does this from time to time: Yes we know it’s annoying, we also know that we shouldn’t be able to to this, however it’s effective. And no, there is no way you can stop us. If you send 5 to 10 people to avoid us from contesting, that’s 5 to 10 people that are not fighting in the front lines, if you don’t, we keep contesting, so either way, we win.

Rejoice, I’m sure ANet will make keeps/castles harder to contest eventually.

SpedalFlux.1520:

you think we havent tried? we got 30man zerg camping the gate, he still slips pass… he hits the gate and instantly restealth… you cant even see him, the npc guards dont even have time to react…

Sounds like either Revealed isn’t working properly or you guys have really slow reaction times.

The mechanic is just broken. 1 person doing 1 hit should never make a waypoint unavailable for an entire server. I never understood why this is happening.

I almost want to laugh at this, because two weeks ago a thief from FA (can give you the name and account name via PM if you want it) did this to us endlessly. And sadly, chasing them through the ruins was more fun than anything else going on in EB so I did for about 3 hours….multiple days. Actually got her (well, female toon name anyway) down to about 15% health a few times with BiP and some other conditions, but the shortbow 5 up and down the walls in the ruins makes it near impossible to kill her.

She has been doing the exact same thing to LL keep all week when I see her on. And, at least Wed. night, had a player from KN standing about 50 feet from her doing the same thing. They both just hung out kind of taking turns.

Personally, some days it’s fun and others it’s annoying. Both the chasing and contesting. There is no reason it should be this way for the time and cost investment in getting a WP, but it is what it is. And, until A-net makes it so that the gate has to take like 5% damage to be contested, this is what we get.

The waypoint is a shortcut. Just hike it. It’s not like you really have farther to go than everyone else. Stop dying. Post guards, use scouts. Pay attention. It’s a convenience, not a right.

I think it’s time to pay attention to what should be a rule in multi player games:

1 player should never be able to cause trouble to 2 or more players. No matter what the situation. If 1 player is able to do that, something needs to be buffed/nerfed somewhere.

bhagwad.4281:

1 player should never be able to cause trouble to 2 or more players. No matter what the situation.

Yeah, Luke Skywalker, shot down.
Rocky, knocked out. That or busted for PEDs.
Frodo and Sam, stealth hax.
Rambo, ammo hax.
John McClaine, never contested Nakatomi Plaza.
Tim Tebow, well, uh… right o.

We all wanna be not a hero, but the hero.

Guys its so darn easy for to say it because it has not been done to you….. I am sure none of you guys know how unfair it is though it may be a tactic according to people (most especially the ones who do it….). And i have a suggestion. ONLY make the tower/keep/SMC contested if it has been hit by a ram/cata/treb/golem because a single person contesting it is just -_-.

bhagwad.4281:

I think it’s time to pay attention to what should be a rule in multi player games:

1 player should never be able to cause trouble to 2 or more players. No matter what the situation. If 1 player is able to do that, something needs to be buffed/nerfed somewhere.

Sometimes 1 player has more skill than 2 players combined.

I do agree that the mechanic needs to be changed. 1 player hitting a door a few times should not contest an expensive and time/resource consuming waypoint.

I’m really confused as to why this alleged 30 zerg couldn’t prevent one stealth thief from getting by. Necro Marks, Thief Traps, Ranger Traps, any of them around the gate would prevent the thief from melee-contesting it. If a thief has to ranged contest, that means she needs to be closer to the guards or to where this 30 man zerg is standing around (they should also be scattered around the gate). I’m going to assume there are a few exaggerations, and thus it makes it more difficult to take the issue seriously.

Thief stealth is far from OP, especially now that culling is gone and stealth revealed has increased. That is not the issue. The real issue is the contesting of the door mechanic and if something needs to be done about that.

Mattjavelin.5164:

ONLY make the tower/keep/SMC contested if it has been hit by a ram/cata/treb/golem because a single person contesting it is just -_-.

Some zergs are big enough to destroy a gate without any siege.

As for catching a thief, try to do it and it will at least give you an idea to how to catch one instead of gathering 30 players and not being able to catch one.

And traps and marks are something great.

But as unfair as that mechanic is, there are so few players who bother do it because it’s utterly unrewarding. It might help your server cap towers and camps but the lonely thief ? He gets absolutely nothing.
So because it’s not something that affects every server every day every hour, Anet will probably take their time to fix it.

Deviija.7869:

I’m really confused as to why this alleged 30 zerg couldn’t prevent one stealth thief from getting by. Necro Marks, Thief Traps, Ranger Traps, any of them around the gate would prevent the thief from melee-contesting it. If a thief has to ranged contest, that means she needs to be closer to the guards or to where this 30 man zerg is standing around (they should also be scattered around the gate). I’m going to assume there are a few exaggerations, and thus it makes it more difficult to take the issue seriously.

When I do it I range using pistols. So the best way to prevent me from hitting the gate is to form a sort of body wall right in front the gate to take the bullet instead of letting it hit the gate (when I’m tired even the guards can prevent me from getting the gate >.>)

If you seriously had 30 people standing in front of a gate, and couldn’t see or even get the thief, than that means several things could’ve been happening:
1) He was hitting another gate
2) There weren’t really 30 people…
3) People not paying attention
4) The thief was hacking (though not very likely)

Thieves are a lose-lose to fight in 1v1 most of the time, since they either kill you or run away. Once you get a thief running, they tend to not come back for a bit.. As for him hitting the gate constant, if he stealthed through you, then at some point he would have been visible for 3 seconds at least, and with the new patch, name plates for enemies are so stinkin obvious you can see them 1/2 a keep away! So, I’m guessing something is just a bit off here, since a 30 man zerg should easily be able to deter a thief, especially with marks and traps.

bhagwad.4281:

I think it’s time to pay attention to what should be a rule in multi player games:

1 player should never be able to cause trouble to 2 or more players. No matter what the situation. If 1 player is able to do that, something needs to be buffed/nerfed somewhere.

I disagree with this 100%. I very skilled player should be able to at least “cause trouble” to two other players. What you propose is a game where skill doesn’t matter, experience doesn’t matter, builds don’t matter, gear doesn’t matter, decision making doesn’t matter, and the only thing that does matter is having more people on your team.

What is being elaborated to here is pretty clear. The thief was hacking, plain and simple. Its not a balance discussion in any way.

nirvana.8245:

What is being elaborated to here is pretty clear. The thief was hacking, plain and simple. Its not a balance discussion in any way.

Haha, please, o wise one, enlighten us with your wisdom!

The thief part of this thread title is a distraction. You should probably change it to just “1 enemy permanently contesting WP” or something. Contestable waypoints can go either way and there’s a lot of ways to go about changing it, if it were to change.

neruson.4978:

It wasn’t for the entire day tbh it was more like 3 to 5 hours at most its nothing compare to that Fa Thief which contest keeps every single day. I’m sure ppl from the match up in WvW notice who that thief is.

Yeah, I gotta say getting inside SMC to hit that treb without any walls/gates being down was very impressive on your part. I have screenshots sent to ANet to make sure that it’s intended and not an exploit. glhf.

Edit: I had to be very fast to get that party invite sent to catch your name, you were speedy at rejecting it, too. You’re a very good thief and it was a lot of fun trying to catch you, but please stop getting into places you shouldn’t.

problem is having a few dedicated folks, and attacking blindly.

use rangers and lay down traps around the door, and behind door. Use mesmer with “into the void”, Use ele and cast aoe. Or spam auto skill 1 anywhere. Or any knock backs.

setup arrow cart, and keep auto “skill 2” all day. Throw in Leg Specialist for added bonus.
“https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Leg-Specialist-Arrow-Cart-Enemy-lockdown”

If ya known the theif’s routine, ya might actually plant a nice trap.

Qiko.2461:

problem is having a few dedicated folks, and attacking blindly.

use rangers and lay down traps around the door, and behind door. Use mesmer with “into the void”, Use ele and cast aoe. Or spam auto skill 1 anywhere. Or any knock backs.

setup arrow cart, and keep auto “skill 2” all day. Throw in Leg Specialist for added bonus.
“https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Leg-Specialist-Arrow-Cart-Enemy-lockdown”

If ya known the theif’s routine, ya might actually plant a nice trap.

And none of these things are particularly going to stop someone from reaching a static location and attacking it for a short while if they don’t mind dying. And all require far more player investment on the defensive side in order to MAYBE stop it from happening.

Is it still not common knowledge that players can just damage a wall and avoid all of the defense at a gate? It’s been in since release but they only “officially” documented it last patch for necros.

Another reason why this shouldn’t be about thieves, but just individual players’ abilities to contest an entire keep.

Ya know, one idjit can hold up an entire airline flight, too. Just saying. ^^

And that’s why I can totally see “I’m not in ur keep, killin ur waypoint”.

Why don’t you just have scouts positioned at the gate? I had 2 people on one wall shooting cannonballs at me for a couple hours and another scouting the Watergate.

The moral of the story is stop complaining, get better scouts or scouts in general!

Dahir.4158:

Why don’t you just have scouts positioned at the gate? I had 2 people on one wall shooting cannonballs at me for a couple hours and another scouting the Watergate.

The moral of the story is stop complaining, get better scouts or scouts in general!

Because scouts won’t stop someone determined to reach the gate and hit it? They may cause them to die but someone who’s taking the time to shut down a WP probably isn’t very concerned about that.