Guild Wars 2

In tier 4 maguuma has 7k more kills than the other servers and 7 thousand points aint making much of a difference in the score. might as well not even put this in the game if pvd and night capping is still what decides who wins which is a joke. 10 points per kill seems about right. 70k can actually make a difference.

ive already done the math, be sure to check the official post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-vs-World-Holiday-Sneak-Peek/page/11

This points per kill will be greatly abused by people with accounts/friends on opposing servers.

Be ready to find small groups farming PPK from naked characters in some obscure corner of the new BL maps.

RedBaron.6058:

This points per kill will be greatly abused by people with accounts/friends on opposing servers.

Be ready to find small groups farming PPK from naked characters in some obscure corner of the new BL maps.

here’s my advice, review the math “carefully” that ive included
if that doesn’t satisfy you cuz ur on T8 server then just hit the record button on the ones you suspect about abusing it and ill make a thread called “hall of shame” and you post that abusive pips vids on that thread, it takes lvl 60 on a free account to abuse on a WvW, how much time it takes for a free account to level it up from 1-60?

be sure to get the names btw, Block>get the name>unblock> whisper etc etc etc

Create dozens of free accounts, put them to macro respawn at hills or bay.
Bring your zerg and enjoy killing naked lootbags.

I would assume that there is a cooldown on the points you are worth (just like wxp gets reduced) in order to avoid kill abuse and encourage fighting against heavy odds. But then again, its WvW we’re talking about.

RedBaron.6058:

This points per kill will be greatly abused by people with accounts/friends on opposing servers.

Be ready to find small groups farming PPK from naked characters in some obscure corner of the new BL maps.

All of a sudden the rewards for winning the week are worth doing that? Doubt it lol.

It would be interesting to see the code around this. My guess is that it has or will have an IF wrapped around it that limits PPK to players worth actual WvW experience. I can see Out Numbered servers not adding to the PPK as well.

Dawdler.8521:

Create dozens of free accounts, put them to macro respawn at hills or bay.
Bring your zerg and enjoy killing naked lootbags.

I would assume that there is a cooldown on the points you are worth (just like wxp gets reduced) in order to avoid kill abuse and encourage fighting against heavy odds. But then again, its WvW we’re talking about.

no cooldown needed, just the “hall of shame thread”

on there we will see Players, Worlds/Servers or even Anet on which ones really killing WvW

Hint #1: PPT Hype Meta

try to differentiate the intentional feeding from an unintentional one,
this is feeding but an unintentional one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmNgz1uwnY8

this one i cant differentiate yet if its in the category of feeding or not or something else
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhbjG8lOKao
(i want that 30 sec blue buff too)

Why anybody would fight when PPK on if there is chance to lose? Some lamer rucksack guild come with their 30 revenants it’s better just flee before they have time to tag any of your players.

Straegen.2938:

It would be interesting to see the code around this. My guess is that it has or will have an IF wrapped around it that limits PPK to players worth actual WvW experience. I can see Out Numbered servers not adding to the PPK as well.

Which is like all of T6 and down. And even some hours on T2 and down… I mean all servers short of T1 have some moments when no one is tagged up and those that come to the BL or EBG won’t roam, instead they go do something else

If they made PPK only count if you’re out-numbered… That be great, or count more for when you’re out numbered, That be stellar!… But if you’re on the team that outnumbers the enemy, then your team at that time should either get 1 point per kill or no points per kill.

This way you give people incentive to play when they are outnumbered. Otherwise, people will just leave WvW when they are outnumbered and not even try to roam just like some do now, but I expect it to get worse when PPK is implemented if they don’t add that sort of incentive in.

Junkpile.7439:

Why anybody would fight when PPK on if there is chance to lose? Some lamer rucksack guild come with their 30 revenants it’s better just flee before they have time to tag any of your players.

Some commanders already do this in both WvW and EotM. Run with nothing but Herald Hammer #2 trains, and if not that, some commanders see a group of enemies and think they can take them, will try… The instance they see they can’t they leave the zerg and the zerg falls apart.

I imagine when PPK happens, they’ll not focus on the stragglers fearing the hidden beast of a blob that will come from around the corner.

KayCee.4653:

Straegen.2938:

It would be interesting to see the code around this. My guess is that it has or will have an IF wrapped around it that limits PPK to players worth actual WvW experience. I can see Out Numbered servers not adding to the PPK as well.

Which is like all of T6 and down. And even some hours on T2 and down… I mean all servers short of T1 have some moments when no one is tagged up and those that come to the BL or EBG won’t roam, instead they go do something else

If they made PPK only count if you’re out-numbered… That be great, or count more for when you’re out numbered, That be stellar!… But if you’re on the team that outnumbers the enemy, then your team at that time should either get 1 point per kill or no points per kill.

This way you give people incentive to play when they are outnumbered. Otherwise, people will just leave WvW when they are outnumbered and not even try to roam just like some do now, but I expect it to get worse when PPK is implemented if they don’t add that sort of incentive in.

Junkpile.7439:

Why anybody would fight when PPK on if there is chance to lose? Some lamer rucksack guild come with their 30 revenants it’s better just flee before they have time to tag any of your players.

Some commanders already do this in both WvW and EotM. Run with nothing but Herald Hammer #2 trains, and if not that, some commanders see a group of enemies and think they can take them, will try… The instance they see they can’t they leave the zerg and the zerg falls apart.

I imagine when PPK happens, they’ll not focus on the stragglers fearing the hidden beast of a blob that will come from around the corner.

That they needed to do was scale PPT so that it impact score for the server that is losing, to give it a chance to catch up and keep the fight close between the 3 servers until the end of the week.
It’s a pretty simple mathematical calculation, if done properly, with a dynamic reward system from both a gold point of view and cosmetic (related to rank), the WvW experience would be engaging. Even the WvW population might resolve itself with more people attracted to WvW because it’s not just a meaningless experience anymore.

Getting 10x the points would be fine by me, but I don’t see it changing anything. Ten of those points gets you just as much nothing as one point does.

good to see people are learning fast, and makes contribution/suggestions to server balancing

so u think u can just show up 1 hr a day to do some zerging and expect to win the matchup? whats next? 1000 pts per kill? 10k pts per kill?

The reason u are getting extra 7k kill is b/c ppl dont care about dying, once pts system is in ppl will just stay inside their towers and lose no pts to U lol. Now u got no one to kill and no pt to earn.

The ideal is to make death some what painful to not simply zomby into a fight and simply burn out but at the same time not make it so painful that no one wants to die at all. 1 point is not enofe to swing a week but it dose add some meaning to getting kills and dieing.

The last time PPK was in place it was working great. No one abused it by having tons of naked toons or anything like that, and the points were enough to sway the outcome of close matches.

Personally I would love to have a “local” outmanned buff, which would trigger inside an event, for example an objective defense or a yak escort, and that buff give 1 extra point per kill while its active.

Taxidriver.2043:

so u think u can just show up 1 hr a day to do some zerging and expect to win the matchup? whats next? 1000 pts per kill? 10k pts per kill?

The reason u are getting extra 7k kill is b/c ppl dont care about dying, once pts system is in ppl will just stay inside their towers and lose no pts to U lol. Now u got no one to kill and no pt to earn.

So you honestly think everyone is gonna hide in their keeps? Like they don’t do that already? they’ll have to ppt some way.

Wow I can’t believe the amount of stupidity and doom-saying BS in this thread.

It looks like 90% of people in this thread are not even aware that we already had PPK system in the end of 2014. It worked great. The PPK points summed up to be about 45-55% of the total server score at the end of the week. So imo, perfectly fair, or it should actually be even more. I’d rather reward killing players over karma rotation of paper towers and keeps.

Back then no one abused anything. If anyone will waste time trying to abuse that, lol, glhf making a difference to a score that basically means nothing at all.

You people really should relax a bit.

Tongku.5326:

The last time PPK was in place it was working great. No one abused it by having tons of naked toons or anything like that, and the points were enough to sway the outcome of close matches.

Free accounts didnt exist then.

Dawdler.8521:

Tongku.5326:

The last time PPK was in place it was working great. No one abused it by having tons of naked toons or anything like that, and the points were enough to sway the outcome of close matches.

Free accounts didnt exist then.

Exactly…people always forget about free accounts…

samo.1054:

Wow I can’t believe the amount of stupidity and doom-saying BS in this thread.

It looks like 90% of people in this thread are not even aware that we already had PPK system in the end of 2014. It worked great. The PPK points summed up to be about 45-55% of the total server score at the end of the week. So imo, perfectly fair, or it should actually be even more. I’d rather reward killing players over karma rotation of paper towers and keeps.

Back then no one abused anything. If anyone will waste time trying to abuse that, lol, glhf making a difference to a score that basically means nothing at all.

You people really should relax a bit.

Free accounts did not exist by then…

Norbe.7630:

Dawdler.8521:

Create dozens of free accounts, put them to macro respawn at hills or bay.
Bring your zerg and enjoy killing naked lootbags.

I would assume that there is a cooldown on the points you are worth (just like wxp gets reduced) in order to avoid kill abuse and encourage fighting against heavy odds. But then again, its WvW we’re talking about.

no cooldown needed, just the “hall of shame thread”

on there we will see Players, Worlds/Servers or even Anet on which ones really killing WvW

Hint #1: PPT Hype Meta

try to differentiate the intentional feeding from an unintentional one,
this is feeding but an unintentional one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmNgz1uwnY8

this one i cant differentiate yet if its in the category of feeding or not or something else
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhbjG8lOKao
(i want that 30 sec blue buff too)

I have to question whether or not you realize just how shameless most Borderlands are. Anet won’t be policing anything. It will be 1 point per kill. Threads shaming other players would either be removed, considered a joke, become like medals for abusers, or never even found by the community at large regardless of where on the internet they are posted. I’m assuming you weren’t really serious about such an idea in the first place.

Cerby.1069:

insert text here

then may i assume you have a better idea?
please share it…
if not, can i have a question too…. you on a pro PPT server or anti PPT one? or your personal choice?
since you want a direct to the point answer ill be direct to you, that hall of shame thread is a Plan C for me, if all hope is lost reviving this WvW then ill shall make sure the abusers go down with it.
done my part… hope you can be direct to mine

“A man always has two reasons for doing anything: a good reason and the real reason.”

-J. P. Morgan

edit: im on a Plan A phase atm

RedBaron.6058:

samo.1054:

Wow I can’t believe the amount of stupidity and doom-saying BS in this thread.

It looks like 90% of people in this thread are not even aware that we already had PPK system in the end of 2014. It worked great. The PPK points summed up to be about 45-55% of the total server score at the end of the week. So imo, perfectly fair, or it should actually be even more. I’d rather reward killing players over karma rotation of paper towers and keeps.

Back then no one abused anything. If anyone will waste time trying to abuse that, lol, glhf making a difference to a score that basically means nothing at all.

You people really should relax a bit.

Free accounts did not exist by then…

And you still think that people will actually be loging free accounts to hide themselves somewhere where they can chainkill one of their characters and that they will actually make a significant impact on the overall score? lol.

That’s just… wow… nevermind.

The dreaded f2p accs ^^ You can’t enter WvW with one until your first char reaches 60, you cant change servers with a f2p acc, you cant even enter LA befor level 30 or your racial town befor 10. That said, you need at least 2 f2ps, one to kill, one that rezzes, or you must walk after each kill to that super hidden secret lair of f2pabuse. And that on several servers, because as stated, you can’t change worlds. In the time you do all that, you can produce way more points by just doing normal WvW stuff. That said, one point per kill still is enough.

Slaugh.7839:

That said, you need at least 2 f2ps, one to kill, one that rezzes, or you must walk after each kill to that super hidden secret lair of f2pabuse

No you dont, already said how to do it with Anets new and improved waypoints.

Most people that would abuse this probably already have plenty of accounts on multiple servers.

About 760k points are generated per WvW match up. Generally in a moderately balanced match up you’re looking at each side getting 260-280k points. So 10% of that would be enough to swing it in your sides favour.

That’s 28k points or rather deaths to have a distinct effect on the outcome of who comes first’ second or third.

A large guild that could set up 100 unique free accounts on the opposite server (especially if you’re in a repetitive match up) with 25 per borderland/EB so as to not be too conspicuous with 1 death/point per minute would take shy of 5 hours to accomplish this. You would obviously need 4 people to kill all those but it’s hardly taxing, with each account dying 280 times.

With a 5 minute lock out it would take just over 23 hours to accomplish this or you could do it for 12 hours for a 14k point generation.

Personally I think anyone/guild that put this much effort into doing this (not the rough maths, rough maths is easy to do) is extremely sad and I pity them.

As for the topic, personally I’d like to see more PPK if you’re outnumbered to help offset you being at a disadvantage, something like 3 would be good. As for a lock out on kills, I think you should get a 1 minute lock out on your third death and if you die shortly after you get a 5 minute lock out, dying again almost immediately after puts you on a 10 minute lock out.

I do think while a 10 minute lock out would be high it means really bad or new players are not going to be farmed and discouraged from joining in the fights. It also greatly lowers the potential for abuse with abuse on the magnitude required for a distinct difference in points being very noticeable.

nc math, but how did you get the 760k again?
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revival
.
.
.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upcoming_changes_and_features
World vs. World
Auto-upgrading of objectives will be disabled. Instead objectives can only be upgraded by supplying them with dolyaks.
Killing an enemy player awards 1 point for your world.
Defeating an enemy player will only allow 1 player to rally off the kill, instead of 5.
Reviving defeated players while in combat will be disabled.

Hint: “while in combat”………..tweak

I went to mos.millenium.org and just added up the total points generated in 2 T1 match ups as we can assume all things will be capped promptly generating the max or close to max score. Given we don’t have PPK or per stomps atm due to no borderland bloodlust that won’t affect the figure.

here are the datas you need, redo ur math for me
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/How-Mist-War-score-is-calculated/first#post5850495
.
.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/19xanl/since_were_talking_about_wvw_dolyaks_and_sentries/

Dude, it’s rough maths, I am not going to go and calculate the absolute maximum score you can ever get from objectives held and every single event being done off cool down.

I needed a rough figure to see about what a significant score difference could be and to see how long it would take without a lock out to essentially game the system.

If you think I’m grossly wrong, please do calculate score and I will happily look at it and either agree or disagree on how easy it would be to game the system.

sorry bro, i was just testing you if you can do some math……
tell you the truth i can do it myself but nobody here will understand if i showed it, so im glad someone showed up and did it for me, even if its just an estimated one.

back to topic, WvW PPK dont need a Timed Lockout , its the PPT who needs to be improved/tweaked/changed

Norbe.7630:

sorry bro, i was just testing you if you can do some math……
tell you the truth i can do it myself but nobody here will understand if i showed it, so im glad someone showed up and did it for me, even if its just an estimated one.

back to topic, WvW PPK dont need a Timed Lockout , its the PPT who needs to be improved/tweaked/changed

I don’t agree, PPK without a lock out would be very very abusable. Farming 100 characters at 1 kill a minute gives you 6k score an hour. From your own link this is more than owning everything which is 2.5k an hour.

I also don’t think score from owning stuff needs buffing otherwise any server that is disproportionately dominant at any time of day (example: night capping) would completely run away with the score. It would additionally reinforce ninja capping, building a ton of siege and then way pointing as soon as you’re going to lose, avoiding fights wherever possible as it wastes time.

Edit: Let me play out a scenario for you. You play at NA night time with 30 others. The other servers have only 5 people on most of the time. You cap everything and have everyone cover exits out of spawn. You then all log into another free account, on that server, using a different computer and farm kills. Even assuming it takes a minute to get each kill with respawn and travel time you’re going to add 1.8k score per hour, that’s nearly as much as owning all but 1 map.

well said and well presented about the “will be” exploits……..
my next question, even me cant figure this out yet……
how can you balance the servers in ALL tiers?

Norbe.7630:

well said and well presented about the “will be” exploits……..
my next question, even me cant figure this out yet……
how can you balance the servers in ALL tiers?

1. 3 to 5 factions like Aika online
2. limit how many can join each faction by increase the cap slowly
3. when joining faction players or guild leaders must provide the time zone and # of the players going to join the faction. Server will decide the best available factions for the players to join.

The three factions idea can only work if WvW gets a lot more maps.

samo.1054:

Wow I can’t believe the amount of stupidity and doom-saying BS in this thread.

It looks like 90% of people in this thread are not even aware that we already had PPK system in the end of 2014. It worked great. The PPK points summed up to be about 45-55% of the total server score at the end of the week. So imo, perfectly fair, or it should actually be even more. I’d rather reward killing players over karma rotation of paper towers and keeps.

Back then no one abused anything. If anyone will waste time trying to abuse that, lol, glhf making a difference to a score that basically means nothing at all.

You people really should relax a bit.

It really depends what tier you are in.

I was there for the test and I was in bronze. It didn’t impact the scores what so ever as far as I could see down there. Servers with more numbers and coverage still one. 45%- 55% of score sounds a little high to me but I hate math so I’ll just take your word for it.

I’m all for it but really I don’t see it changing much at this point. I only see it making a difference on the tiers that are close in numbers and coverage and lets face it there are not many tiers that are close in numbers and coverage..

Taxidriver.2043:

1. 3 to 5 factions like Aika online
2. limit how many can join each faction by increase the cap slowly
3. when joining faction players or guild leaders must provide the time zone and # of the players going to join the faction. Server will decide the best available factions for the players to join.

for the factions, i think the WvW would be like EoTM on that, lots ok capping, flipping as well as uplevels….

and that would be the another breeding ground of PPK abusers as said by apharma….

only its from a PoV on a T1 server other servers maybe safe from those abusers.

so the PPT and PPK should be adjusted (and different) in every Tier, it should be flexible from the coverage to population, as of now its all the same for every tier, that is the solution i could think of atm

and as for PPK abuse, make “your team” visible on the whole map like on the picture below, and make their downed or died state appear also

believe me that map is 3x to 10x the size of the desert BL that Anet created

also they may put a kill log on chat log that says:
05:30 mickymouse.1234 was killed (an enemy killed him)
05:32 superman.2543 died (maybe fell from a cliff and died no enemy involved)
05:33 mickymouse.1234 was killed (an enemy killed him)
05:34 mickymouse.1234 was killed (an enemy killed him)

there you can track abusers

and my hope about the gliding in WvW can be fulfilled, imagine 5-10 people can actually ride an airship and glide your way through an enemy keep, of course there a cooldown
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aj3dtfC71U (stonemist air defense)

based on this
https://youtu.be/2X8oGy4G7tM?t=74

This isn’t difficult. Set a point amount per player and distribute points to those around during the kill. Those that tapped or did damage or support/heal/clear conditions within area.

Set a decay rate so if the same player is killed within a short period of time point value is reduced. Point decrease/decay increases to prevent the feeding of points or zergs killing people on lower populated servers.

If we say set 100 points for a player. A zerg of 10 kills him. Each would get 10 points. If a roamer / solo hit same player they would get max points, 100. If the same player gets killed by the solo/roamer or zerg he/she isn’t worth 100 points anymore, they are worth 50….if they are killed within say 5 or 10 minutes of last death.

This whole point system is failed due to wall clock coverage and tiers. Personally I’d throw it all out and put the focus on players and ranks. Build a portal, weekly stats across the servers and game, and let it sort itself out.