Guild Wars 2

I cracked the coded message!!!

Gaile Gray.6029:

A *ME*ssa*G*e from the World vs World Te*A*m:

Before the holiday *SE*ason is fully upon us we wanted to give you all a sneak peek of some changes that are coming to WvW. Befo*R*e we jump into the changes, we just want to make it *VER*y *C*lear that the changes y*O*u’ll read about below are not a part of the big World vs World update that we’ve previously *M*ent*I*oned. This update is the first of what we hope are more regular updates to the existing core of World vs. World. We are looki*NG* forward to *S*haring the details *O*f the bigger W*O*rld vs World project with you in the future, but we’re *N*ot quite ready yet.

And now for that sneak peek:

• Objectives upgrades will no longer be automatic based on time. They will upgrade based on dolyaks that reach them. Smaller groups can now prevent an objective from upgrading by preventing dolyaks from reaching that objective.
• Supply cost for all catapults are being reduced by ten supply. The layout of the Desert Borderlands map has increased the number of catapults required to take some objectives. We agree with your feedback that also increasing the cost of catapults pushed the balance too far towards defense so we are tuning that more towards offense.
• Points per kill will be turned on and kept on. This is to more directly recognize the contribution that fighting other players adds to the success of the world.
• The number of players who can rally off a single kill has been reduced from five to one. Players will also no longer be able to revive defeated players while in combat. You still will be able to revive downed players while in combat. Both of these changes are designed to help fights resolve and to give smaller, more skilled groups a better chance against larger groups.

Please let us know what you think of these changes. We’re going to hold off on picking a release date until we have a chance to review your feedback, but we’d like to target early 2016. So please add your feedback about these proposals to this thread.

We also wanted to express our thanks to Reyana and the commanders she has been talking with in her World vs World Commander Interview series. Reyana is a dedicated member of the WvW community and a WvW streamer. She has brought together a diverse group of community leaders to constructively share different perspectives on how they play with their guilds, and our team has taken a lot of the commanders’ feedback to heart. Reyana has put a lot of effort into organizing these interviews and we want everyone to know that the efforts that she and the commanders made have been greatly appreciated.

Have a very Happy Holiday!

Tofu: I think PPK has the potential to balance PPT scores a bit, after all PPK has the greatest impact on server score when there are most players on and PPT is probably the opposite.

Swagger: Clever – hadn’t seen that! All the same, I hope your prophecy is untrue – megaserver to the darkside belongs.

Tofu.1978:

The only thing that scares me is PPK. Everyone seems to think that it will encourage fights but I worry that it discourages fights by making people less willing to engage with smaller numbers and give up points. If it does end up encouraging fights I’m all for it I just know way to many commanders who are unwilling to engage larger groups just based on giving the enemies bags and having to regather their group at spawn. If they also know they are going to lose net points I fear they will get even more cautious. I’m sure this isn’t an original thought but I didn’t see it in the 6 or so pages I read.

That’s why they need:
1 PPK for winning team
2 PPK for mid team
3 PPK for losing team
2 extra PPT when outnumbered

A losing server that is also outnumbered would at least be able to score good points off kills.

The only feedback I have is roll this out as soon as possible. This is seen as a great response by most of the WvW community and already we have had several guilds transfer back to Blackgate or reactivate from long hiatus’; simply based on this news. So don’t take too long to make the changes or that surge of momentum may peter out.

Noob.5908:

1.)Capping a camp Perspective… With auto upgrades chances are smaller that I will encounter and enemy while capping it because there isn’t much reason for them to be in their 1/3. Might be some escorting yaks but honestly very few people even do this. So the excitement the enemy will probably be inc soon has dwindled down to boring camp capping. The number of fun fights I’ve had fighting players trying to upgrade a supply camp has been very frequent. Nowadays there isn’t anyone even close by because they have no reason to be and nothing invested in the upgrade. If a player has put the effort to run out and start an upgrade at a camp they usually want to defend it. If I run to a camp and see no upgrades going I see a boring cap and move on, but if it’s been upgraded to say t1 then I know someone has been there and I will watch for them with excitement. Auto upgrades completely removes this entire dynamic and makes the game boring. So basically with the proposed changes its now all about yaks and players fighting each other over yaks, but seeing how that is incredibly boring and barely anyone ever wants to escorts yaks ANET feels they can turn what people don’t like doing into a fun. LOL this falls into the realm of stupidity. The focus should be on the camps not the yaks. Yes I’ve had some good fights over a yak but mostly because an enemy was running by and saw me killing the yak and engaged me. Maybe 1 out of 100 yaks I encounter a player actually escorting a yak. But hey ANET if you think you can turn yak escorting into something exciting and bring more people into WVW… go for it lol. /cry

And that still exists. Camps have always been a problem because they have always been absolutely trivial to take over. The game isn’t built around people camping objectives, and it never was, but for some reason they still refuse to allow camps to upgrades to harder defensive structures. With walls. That actually give people a chance to respond to a camp under attack. What you’re complaining about is a lack of free and easy intelligence to find fights. Fact of the matter is, people care about camps when they care about the objectives those camps feed. just because the camp does basic upgrades doesn’t mean the camps aren’t important to people. If I slot tactics in to a camp because I need that camp to upgrade a nearby tower, you can be sure I’m worried about defending that camp.

Camps have always been too easy to flip. That’s why there are never very good fights over camps. it has nothing to do with making someone click a button. Give a T2 camp an actual wall, which creates an inidcator that it’s under attack, and you fix this problem immediately.

Noob.5908:

2.) Upgrading a Camp Perspective… this entire dynamic has been removed from game along with the players that enjoyed trying to get a camp upgraded. Sure I can go stand around a camp in hopes an enemy will show up, but seeing how I have no time invested in the upgrade I don’t really care, I have been made as useless as kittens on a maggot. Besides if it gets capped I just recap it and move on who cares about defending camps its rather pointless 90% of the time. Before HoT upgrading a camp was an active player participation thingy now its not… enough said!

See point 1. Camps have always been too easy to flip. They are still too easy to flip. This has nothing to do with how the upgrades are acquired, and much more to do with the fact that the upgrades are worthless from a defensive perspective.

Noob.5908:

3.)Gawd forbid people defending have busy work, its way more exciting to stand around in a tower(brings tower humping to a whole new level). Hey if ANET implements a few more automatic type stuff we can all stand at the spawn and watch the game and see who wins. /cry

Literally all making people have to go click a button to do is creates more instances where you have to go visit objectives that are in not danger, on your back line, far away from enemy engagements. How does forcing people to run to a tower halfway across the map to click an upgrade button in stead of allowing that same player to remain on the front line, defending assets actively under attack, or attacking enemy assets create more exiting game play>

Noob.5908:

4.)Placement/Refreshing siege Perspective… Here on earth refreshing siege has become such a thrilling experience you have to stand inline to get the opportunity. Now lets be real, siege doesn’t get refreshed anymore and siege refresh timers is the ultimate in boring busy work. In my opinion siege timers should be increased to 3 hours before we lose more players that are tired of running around refreshing siege, they must of died from boredom because here on SBI most of the siege refreshers have vanished. Probably did what I did, they stopped doing it because they were the only one doing it and gave up. Siege timers was a good idea but 60 minute timers was a terrible implementation. Maybe defending stuff might become a national sport if there were actually some siege in the towers when you got there. Furthermore with enemies placing 3-4-5-6-7-10 rams at the gate and bringing down gates so fast who has time to build siege much-less defend.

I completely agree. Siege refreshing is the same pointless, boring, stupid busy work as manually clicking upgrade buttons. it forces people to break off of active play to go click arbitrary buttons. Manually upgrading things and refreshing siege are the exact same problem in that they make you go do pointless busywork just to keep or rank up stuff you’re already fighting to maintain by holding your front line and keeping the enemy away from those siege emplacements or objectives.

Noob.5908:

5.) Scouting Perspective… I use to enjoy doing this but running around refreshing siege burned me out and now that everything automatically upgrades there really isn’t much for me to do except escort yaks which 99% of players find incredibly boring. Oh wait ANET has some magical fix that is going to make yak escorting exciting, silly me! /cry

Escorting yaks that nobody is harassing is just as pointless as sitting in a tower nobody is attacking. What you should be doing is killing their yaks to prevent their upgrades and disrupt their operations if you’re scouting. This is simple logic. Disrupting yaks actively prevents upgrades. Especially now that the only way upgrades actually happen is when yaks get through.

Noob.5908:

6.)Night capping… Lets have automatic upgrades so everything is fully upgraded during off periods so we can discourage all this night capping. Gawd forbid people actually want to play WVW during off hours and if they do lets make it hard for them. Realm of the stupidity again!
During off time we need things to be easier or the few new players they do decide to come check out WVW will just see a map that’s a hassle. Well if the like staring at a gate for 10 minutes while someone runs a ram I guess ANET has hit the mark with auto upgrades. Fully fortified structures is not going to stop night capping on servers with the population but it will stop the low population servers from even trying. But hey who needs people in WVW during off peak times. /cry

No, upgraded structures because nobody was around to defend them consolidates fights during off peak hours. it incentivizes the defenders to bring more people and siege, and incentivizes the defenders to actually defend assets because they’re in less danger of losing another random objective while they defend the first. My favorite off peak experiences have been fighting over fully upgraded objectives when there are ~5 attackers and defenders simply because it consolidates fights to a single objective in stead of spreading out an already sparse population all over the map so they can easily pvdoor towers in a huge cowardly ring of not fighting each other.

Those upgrades weren’t automatic. They happenned because nobody bothered to cap a supply camp that was sending yaks to them, and nobody bothered to kill yaks. That’s a tactical failure. The automatic upgrade system was stupid because it made the upgrades inevitable. The yak-required system means that you can stop every upgrade by actually taking objectives in stead of repeatedly ganking the same guy over and over in a cycle that will never end

Noob.5908:

Conclusion

Auto upgrades is one of the things killing the game. All changes to WVW should be first and foremost to encourage more players in WVW not discourage them. Furthermore if a couple friends capping your stuff in the middle of the night needs to be discouraged then why not just close WVW except during prime-time and run off even more players. Your not going to stop the servers like SBI night-shift which has a decent night-shift thanks to a commander that spent months building it up (Djixie). This is about match balance not auto upgrades. Shallow thinking and seat of your pants, knee jerk implementations is not bringing players to WVW its running them off.

People should be capping stuff in the night. However, five people shouldn’t be capping half the map just because it’s easy to spam rams on a t1 gate. People want to have fights in WvW. Making it take actual effort to prevent upgrades and take objectives at all hours of the day creates fights. It does not discourage them. What it prevents is people running all over the map quickly PvDooring down more objectives than a small force should be able to just because there are less defenders.

Anet,

Now that you are looking into WvW improvements. Please bring back WvW passion. Bring back Relics!

RELIC BENEFITS:
-The Objective that the Relic is placed into, generates 2x it’s worth in PPT.
-For each Relic your server controls, you gain +50% XP/KAR/WvWXP/COIN/MAGIC FIND
-If your server controls all 3 relics. Your keeps/towers/camps are no longer “Flagged” when they are engaged. Other servers gain “sneak attack” against your objectives.

Each BL would have 1 Relic in the Earth Keep. When the keep lord dies, it would drop the relic. The Relic can either be kept in that keep, or picked up and manually escorted to any other objective(fire Keep. Wind Keep. Towers). Once in the other objective they bring the Relic to the Keep lord, and hand it to him.

OUTMANNED BUFF
Improve the outmanned buff to actually support the realm with the active buff.
- Keep walls/doors take 50% less damage.
-All Siege deals 50% more damage.

This allows the outmanned(or low population server) to actually defend their objectives longer.. atlas to hold out until more players show up to balance out the fight.

Well hope my interview pointed out what is wrong with WvW and where it needs to go

For the longest time, the wins and losses in WvW and PvP really didn’t matter. With the pvp tourney, you see people getting much more heated about bad decisions and careless mistakes that actually remove their earned progress.

If the major WvW overhaul makes hundreds of people actually care about winning and losing… anger, frustration, and resentment could run rampant especially if the win or loss could come down to how busy 1-2 people were in the off-hours. How much pressure would that put on the people running around popping upgrades? In the past, people were glad they did it. In the future, they might get angry when they don’t.

I don’t understand the argument about passive VS active upgrades.

The system does it for you automatically, fixed so that it now is based on incoming supply so it’s not deterministic and time-bound

vs

Some guy is standing in a tower queuing them when the supply is ready. He’s bored, but cares for the PPT.

I’m sorry, but I don’t understand the reasoning here. People were complaining about the cost of upgrades, so they made them automatic, but erroneously made time-based. People were complaining about supply trolling to prevent upgrades, so they removed the need for supply to be used as a resource. Now they make the upgrades supply-delivery-based again, AND this can’t be trolled with wasted siege, and people are all up in arms about not pressing the button.

If they made WvW actually competitive and the matchups good, there’s no reason to have some guy sit there and wait to queue and upgrade. There wouldn’t be nightcapping. Hell, these systems explicitly prevent nightcapping by making upgrades occur automatically such that one guy doesn’t ram down a t1 keep at four in the morning when nobody’s playing.

A structure won’t get upgraded without supply deliveries, or will be taken over again by another server if not enough get there fast enough. It’s still absolutely about the players, because players are denying those yaks.

Instead of a guy pressing a button to get an upgrade, a guy is going to be able to single-handedly hold back the upgrade from even occurring. That’s awesome. It promotes the use of havoc squads but also punishes servers that let opposing havoc run rampant. We’re back to where we were with this system in regards to player actions deciding what gets upgraded, except instead of someone camping a structure waiting for supplies to come to lose 10-15 silver and press a button, or a server’s negligence to care to do so because the ktrain is strong, it’s done regardless.

Players complained that defense was too difficult, ktraining structures was too common, and havoc/small group/solo player didn’t matter.

Now they’re listening to those complaints by making changes to fix them, and people are complaining again because of arbitration in the user experience. I’m rarely one to favor ANet’s decisions; to put it bluntly, I’m distrustful of them as a company and was extremely vocal about the HoT blunder, but come on folks, keep complaining for no reason and they’ll just stop bothering.

There just doesn’t seem to be an actual argument against this change that promotes healthy gameplay and a sustainable future for the format. This is objectively an improvement.

For the rally cap limit and OOC resurrecting, I’ve spoken my mind already; I think it’ll have the reverse affect they think it will for small groups. I hope they pay this heed, and I am absolutely concerned about it.

Phantom.8130:

Jana, a few posts back, you were asking how to go about handling manual upgrades, while making sure trolls couldn’t grief by ordering it at the worst possible times or by ordering the wrong upgrades on purpose. There’s a very very simple way to go about handling that.

Here’s how it works. You have three tiers.

Here’s what I loved in the past and what I kind of want back:
We’re holding paper SM, it’s about to be taken
“Someone drain supps!!”
– Ordering merchants and get 600 supply out –
That was always cool, no matter what objective but it has also been taken as a tool to troll and there’s no way to ensure it can’t be used to drag the “own server” down.
What you’re describing is still a dumbed down automated system with a manual click.

Phantom.8130:

Their job isn’t just doing the chores, their job is maintaining the territory. This includes upgrades and building siege, yes, but also controlling the camps, and scouting enemy movement.

Sometimes there’s not enough people to do all of this and the question is: Do automated upgrades harm or help them.

Phantom.8130:

However, since you can make more gold in 20 minutes of PvE than you can in a day of WvW, not even the farmers will come in there to karma train. They’ll just go to one of the PvE maps, leaving WvW empty.

To some people it might be that simple – I loved the community and working together. Yes for that automated stuff is bad.

Phantom.8130:

If you automate the defense, it stops becoming a strategic game of players versus players, and becomes a mechanical game of players versus the environment. PvE.

There’s not much strategy about upgrades, whether it’s automated or manual. I get your point, just that it doesn’t apply here. You can argue about sentries giving enemy locations away or too many NPC guards, but upgrades?

Phantom.8130:

Furthermore, if you’re on a server that doesn’t have 24/7 coverage, an off peak group can take an entire borderland without resistance, and with auto upgrades, there’s a good possibility that the entire thing could be fully upgraded by morning.

Since I’m on EU for now 1,5 years I am always on a server which has no coverage at certain times of the day, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t at least a few who try to get things back. As long as the opponent server doesn’t outnumber us 24/7 they won’t be able to hold the stuff for long. And yet again, do autoupgrades harm or help outnumbered servers? As effectively those outnumbered don’t have to have people sitting in camps and towers to click upgrades.

Phantom.8130:

That group only needs to go through once, and never needs to come back.

Yes, but it doesn’t take much longer to take a T3 objective that isn’t guarded.

I’m a platinum something solo roamer/scout who does this for now 2 years. I spent ~700 gold a month (Edit: it was around 70 to 100 – math and me) on upgrades, I have been a kitten good scout, I refreshed siege, I built siege, I destroyed enemy siege when everybody else just stood around – and I think the automated upgrades are better. I get your point and that to some people all of this was important – but I promise to never again spend a dime on any upgrade – if you really want it, then do it yourselves – that goes to every server I might be on in the future.

ETA: With one exception: Getting the supply out of something we’re about to lose – then you’ll get my gold. But anet, if you read this: You can make the costs for this as high as you like, trolls still would pay it.

I still say the rez changes need to be tested first, the other changes mentioned in this preview were/are in the game already and therefore anet has feedback and known issues regarding them. The rez changes are the only ones to never have been tested. I strongly recommend implementing it for a week or two as a testing period then monitoring feedback to see how a more permanent implementation can be accomplished.

Ralith Arkane.8371:

“The number of players who can rally off a single kill has been reduced from five to one. Players will also no longer be able to revive defeated players while in combat. You still will be able to revive downed players while in combat. Both of these changes are designed to help fights resolve and to give smaller, more skilled groups a better chance against larger groups.”

To me, this reads “everyone will run full Berserker builds and it will be a DPS race on every fight.” This sounds like it would discourage traditional roles and relegate everyone to the pirate ship meta without the frontline.

While I agree with the effect on build diversity and maintaining a two group composition, I think that this 1 rally per kill will actually cause both backline and front line to form into one omni blob without the need for tanks or back line damage.

Both melee and ranged will probably be relegated to using cele or other partial sustain builds in order to not make that many downs.

Sometimes what people want isn’t always beneficial to be goals behind this.

Awesome good news
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-vs-World-Holiday-Sneak-Peek/first

now anet why do you lie me up in my face all the time I play wvw ?

it says I get xp but I have HoT and even I have 31 characters at lvl 80 I don’t
get any xp in wvw.

And my food says I get 10% more xp, but in wvw it don’t make any sense ?!

and why do pve players cash in on all the hours wvw players play wvw ?

pve cash in daily 3 years in a row form http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_of_the_Mists
and what do wvw players get form pve players ?

Please stop this peeing down wvw players bag !

it should also cost 12 gold per every 3 month to play wvw

if you did not pay your server status would go N/A and your slot would be open to others.

You had 3 month payment time = you could pay 4 gold once per month and keep your payment
3 month ahead all the time = you had 2 month and 30 days time to pay your wvw fee = 3 month
that is 1 gold per weerk.

if you did not pay and your server was full, and you was removed to N/A you just had to join another server !

Wanted to play wvw for free, EoTM would be there for you !!!

Rise gold form wvw bosses with 1% – 5% – 10% ! + 100% option to get a drop after 4 days play / 96 hours of wvw for one token per month
to pay your monthly wvw fee with

+ many just comes form daily and it would be nice if they don’t just fill up space !

( I see my guild, it is 90% pve players some pvp and few wvw players, it could maybe free up some space ! in my guild 300 don’t play wvw ohh wow – a little ? to see 300 players cash in on my wvw hours ?! )

so anet want exclude wvw players form pve, np lets exclude pve players form wvw !

fair shall be fair !

Also I cant see why why pve shall cash in on wvw players work form http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_of_the_Mists
wvw players don’t get nada form the pve players play

with a wvw free this would be more easy to lets wvw players cash in on there own work !
instead of having pve players benefit form wvw players work !

all pve players cash in on all the wvw work we wvw players do via http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_of_the_Mists
and they have now for 3 years -

this makes absolute no sense pve player shall cash in on wvw players play ?!!!

I am curious about the WvW rewards. I’m pretty sure that people have noticed that actually doing things in WvW only yields a reward in the big WvW tournament. I think that WvW players are getting short-changed for no reason. In PvE I played 1 meta event and made 20 gold. A bit of it was indeed RNG, but last night, 12/22/15, There were a lot of precursor drops in Dragonstand and Auric Basin. In PvP I can level my level 23 Revenant to 80 and get to play with everything to get practice while getting all of the armor and weapons I need and gold a plenty to buy runes and trinkets. In WvW, the best thing I’ve gotten in weeks was not from normal WvW gameplay, It was a guild mission. It is really sad when I put a ton of effort into WvW and my best rewards in WvW are the Resonating Sliver and Guild Commendations from guild missions. My question to the Devs is: Why are the rewards in WvW non-existent?

PopeUrban.2578:

I completely agree. Siege refreshing is the same pointless, boring, stupid busy work as manually clicking upgrade buttons. it forces people to break off of active play to go click arbitrary buttons. Manually upgrading things and refreshing siege are the exact same problem in that they make you go do pointless busywork just to keep or rank up stuff you’re already fighting to maintain by holding your front line and keeping the enemy away from those siege emplacements or objectives..

Siege refreshing is necessary. It is one of the only ways to curb siege trolls. If a siege troll fills a local limit or map limit with rams, the only way to let the map’s limits open up again is to let the siege decay. This way, the troll not only has to build the siege, but needs to refresh it as well.

Siege decay is needed as a map’s siege limit will be filled if too many rams are used throughout a map to take objectives.

Siege decay is needed in order to let the paper, crap siege go away in favor of superior siege.

Coming from a roaming/dueling guild, the permanent application of PPK and no in-combat ressing of defeated toons are very promising and seemingly positive changes to WvW small group/solo initiatives. With blobs as the reigning champions of PPT land, roamers, solo and group comps, to havoc guilds to fight guilds have been few and far between; however, the above offers some interesting incentives.

When solo roaming, many guildies and I would appreciate the added bonus of a PPK reward while we make our way around SMC, capping camp, sentry, rinse and repeat. Albeit, the reward reaches only as far as our pride for our server goes, which for some is nice I guess, however, I’ll keep my trap zipped about needing more self-centric reward in WvW until you unveil the master plan.

For a fight guild, these changes just sound terrific. Giving more tools to help out the coordinated, skilled and preemptive players to have at the blob meta just makes sense. I could also see these changes enticing a few roamers out of the snowballing dueling funk (since there really is no place for roamers in the current meta as it stands). However, especially for those who are skilled at 1vx combat or small scale GvG, this is assuming you continue to execute a multitude of positive changes that cater to these subgroups.

A place where the Blob, the fight guild, the havocs and the roamers all still have a place: The “sneak peek” changes are promising and I am actually intrigued to see what you have in store, Anet.

Watched the interviews from Reyana and they are amazing.

Favorite one was the interview with INS (hell, I am not from EU, but props to him ^^). He had a wide range of view and he covered many subjects such as roaming, havoc squad and the zergs perspective. (http://www.twitch.tv/reyana_atac/v/31478828).

There are 3 things Anet could do tommorow to make a huge recover from the bad situation WvW is currently in (at 15:44 in the highlights video).
-1 Bring back friday night reset
-2 Rewards on a daily basis for each objectives. Once you get your daily reward you get a chest with rewards in addition to the loots given by the NPC/players you’ve killed.
-3 Bring back Alpine Borderland. Alpine was loved (see the twitch chat hype when INS said the sacred comment ‘’Everyone would be running around, everyone would be fighting. Living the days! It’s like you know, you bring something back that people have been missing so much. You don’t realize how much you missed it until it’s gone. It’s gonna be massive!’’

Props to Reyana for taking the initiative and doing such a great job at it.
Thanks to all the commanders who participated in those interviews, many good points have been brought forwards.

But back to subject, those changes are great. I only have worries about commander sniping with the fact that hard rez would be impossible even for him. Maybe make it so squad members can hard rez their squad leader (him being the only exception). High risk since members might die and wont be able to be rezed, but a pug zerg without their commander is already as good as dead…

If there was any sort of punishment for siege trolling then it wouldn’t be an issue. Then, we wouldn’t have to deal with refreshing siege.

msalakka.4653:

The automatic upgrades are fantastic. Anytime my server faces other servers of lower ranking, we can just flip their border and leave it entirely and it’ll be T3 in no time. It’ll be funny watching the one or two scouts they have trying to keep camps flipped to prevent the auto-upgrades.

Another great thing is, we don’t really need scouts either. It takes those lower rank servers with their small groups so long to get through our T3 walls on their border that even if they make it to lord we can wp in anytime we want and snuff them out. Even if we die, just instantly respawn right next to lord, lol. It’s hilarious.

Then again if they did manage to flip it and somehow upgrade it to T3, it takes our zerg less than 6 minutes from outer gate to ring up (I’ve timed it), whereas their small groups grow white beards by the time they see a glimpse of the lord room. So no big.

Please don’t change a thing; we don’t want to have to leave people behind from our karmatrain to actually scout, siege, and guard those keeps. This is working as intended.

Think i need a new sarcasm meter, my previous one broke reading this, 1+ for you Gutter Rat!

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Objectives upgrades will no longer be automatic based on time. They will upgrade based on dolyaks that reach them. Smaller groups can now prevent an objective from upgrading by preventing dolyaks from reaching that objective.

Will there be rewards added back into WvW for groups who spend their time escorting dolyaks? (If I remember correctly the general rewards for escorting a dolyak were removed.)

Otherwise I see little issue with this change.

• Supply cost for all catapults are being reduced by ten supply. The layout of the Desert Borderlands map has increased the number of catapults required to take some objectives. We agree with your feedback that also increasing the cost of catapults pushed the balance too far towards defense so we are tuning that more towards offense.

That seems fine for now.

• Points per kill will be turned on and kept on. This is to more directly recognize the contribution that fighting other players adds to the success of the world.

Finally.

• The number of players who can rally off a single kill has been reduced from five to one. Players will also no longer be able to revive defeated players while in combat. You still will be able to revive downed players while in combat. Both of these changes are designed to help fights resolve and to give smaller, more skilled groups a better chance against larger groups.

While I like the idea I also hate it.

Pro’s:
-Players will have to watch how they play more now then before.
-It will even fights between large and smaller forces.* (Unknown if this will make a huge difference in large vs small forces since it would depend on PUG vs Guild groups in the 1st place.)

Con’s:
-Promotes ranged play as opposed to melee players.
-Promotes avoiding fights due to map travel times in the new borderlands if you die
-Promotes use of siege more then use of skills as a player (kill the enemy quicker to win)
-Promotes staying inside of a tower/keep as opposed to pushing out and fighting attackers
- Promotes going 1 of 2 builds: Zerker for DPS to kill, or Bunker to survive

Zachary Stiers.1879:

Some clarification on a bit of confusion I saw:

• When a dolyak reaches its destination it contributes to the upgrades of both the objective it is reaching and the camp it started at.

So a dolyak reaching an objective will upgrade the camp as well as a tower/keep. I actually disapprove of this. As camps are very easily flipped by enemies, and it is a drain to set a player or two at each camp to have a camp upgrade.

• Rally order is closest-first. Combined with the rally limit of one this means that only the nearest downed player will rally off an enemy death.

No. This is horrible.

Rallying I’m not a fan of being lowered to 1 player in the 1st place. I am even more-so annoyed with it being to rally the “nearest” player to the one who dies.
A trolling player would be able to do damage from range, then run up and troll the melee group by taking away any chance for them to rally by being closest. That’s just horrid.

I see a possibility of “trolls” to abuse this system. (Likely-hood unknown.)

In addition the rally shouldn’t be changed due to range at all. What if the ranged classes are doing damage and do kill a player, while at the same time a thief snuck around to kill your back-line? The back-line would never get the rallies, due to those in front line who either play badly all together, or those who get snipped in the front line getting the rally due to being “closer” and having hit the player.

The range changing who gets the rally is horrible and will deter people from fighting in choke points, and promote ranged classes who are not able to always withstand the brute force of front line to run in if they happen to get lower HP. (Thus killing back-liners who do such)

• Resurrecting the dead cannot be started in combat, but entering combat while already resurrecting someone will not force you to stop.

That is fine, however you need to fix the bugs where players get stuck in combat while not in actual combat or having anything aggro’d on them.

Bullet points 1-3 are fine. Bullet point 4 isn’t. I prefer no changes to rallies. Just my 2 copper. :p

I can’t say much about the catapults as I prefer to do the killing so others can take care of those details.

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Points per kill will be turned on and kept on. This is to more directly recognize the contribution that fighting other players adds to the success of the world.

Gaile Gray.6029:

• The number of players who can rally off a single kill has been reduced from five to one. Players will also no longer be able to revive defeated players while in combat. You still will be able to revive downed players while in combat. Both of these changes are designed to help fights resolve and to give smaller, more skilled groups a better chance against larger groups.

First thought: happy dances No more zombie blobs! Though, pin-sniping will still be an issue… I’m indifferent towards the 1-to-1 rally, our dead normally are left dead until we actually have breathing room to revive them (after the fight) else they are to run back. Given that we normally run 10-20 man including a few pugs/militia with/without communication.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Please let us know what you think of these changes. We’re going to hold off on picking a release date until we have a chance to review your feedback, but we’d like to target early 2016. So please add your feedback about these proposals to this thread.

Is there a more definitive time? Most guildies are on vacation, especially our leader. First raid is Jan 2nd for us. Thank you for updating us, I’ve already notified some people for discussion.

The only things I’m still immediately concerned about are:
- Numerous tight spaces on the new borderlands maps that are high-traffic, making it difficult to maneuver out of large amounts of damage in the first place.
- Certain builds in particular (especially for the battleship meta) added onto the previous point are also difficulties we face and make it extremely difficult to engage.
- PvE mobs and events on WvW map; though the laser might help, based on my own experiences it seems to help the larger group that is dominating the map instead. Trees get in the way of sight and hitting PvE mobs while travelling does get aggravating.
- It is wrong for us to know whom exactly was interviewed, though I’m concerned of the sample and sample size of the commanders interviewed. I have heard of Reyana (assuming they are of Blackgate) even though I’m primarily T2; so knowing her by good reputation means something already (a good thing). My issue is that if the sample are primarily T1 commanders, it still might cater towards larger scale fights (25 minimum) if we don’t know all the details. I have also heard that a TC commander whom has relatively recently looked into GvGs have been interviewed.
- Over time due to the changes, I’ve become… paranoid in a way, are those the only things possibly being changed and are there other things that have already been decided to be changed?

Still, once again… Thank you for shining some light. Leaks of the “WvW Tourney” already sent a panick and sense of defeat in those I enjoy fight with/against.

All good changes, especially the rally one.
But I feel like the boarderlands still take too long to progress across, which is a shame due to their beauty and design.
Also, please fix the glitchy looking walls that show up as both upgraded and un-upgraded every time you move near them.

\o/
But i still cant feel the reason to play on the new maps.
There should be a lot of rewarding pvp events. King of the hill, relic run, kill the priest, last man standing… Randomly, on every maps at the same time

McWolfy.5924:

\o/
But i still cant feel the reason to play on the new maps.
There should be a lot of rewarding pvp events. King of the hill, relic run, kill the priest, last man standing… Randomly, on every maps at the same time

This should be PvP gamemodes instead of the kitten we have until now…god I want GW1 PvP back

I think pin-sniping might become a legitimate strategy now.

Cecilia.5179:

I think pin-sniping might become a legitimate strategy now.

Cutting off the head of the “snake” has always been a strategy for all pvp games types. All though in most RvR games you did not have rally systems and not every one could rez ppl and even less could rez ppl in-combat so its realy not that big of a deal from rvr as an game type.

Tbh I don’t think that blobs will havily change their strategy. People won’t do anything different. You will have heavy meele pushes and strong range pressure.

The only thing that will change is that guild raids will have better chances because you can’t rally the entire enemy group with one killed player anymore.

misterdevious.6482:

Here’s a cute lil video of a scout that I thought of. This basically doesn’t exist in the current design. Escorting Yaks for linear upgrading paths wouldn’t bring joy to players like this. https://youtu.be/dlfUTwQ5sdg

WvW was not, is not, and shouldn’t be just about fighting. Worlds need a diversity of roles to make it inclusive and interesting.

I miss this form of a good WvWvW, but Arenanet destroys that. Pls Time-warp before HoT. Now its the Game so much Borring ,i swear… Pls WvWvW devs use your Brain, here are a lot contructive Post’s. Use them for a better Gameplay for all.

And i’m not for Pointkills.. Blobb Server’s will run on the Top… Not use full..
Dolly’s ok, pls no Auto-Upgrade!
And bring Back the old Maps (That’s the Home from all Players, you have put us in the desert, we hate them)

Thx for your Time. Merry Christmas.

manual upgrades need to be a thing.

if people don’t feel invested they play less.

added to this afking at an empty t3 tower while a friendly is opening it is absolutely terrible gameplay.

neither defenders or attackers care.

Norbe.7630:

sorry for the double post and this thread is tldr but anyway heres my suggestion
why not add the points per kill system like
a normal rank killed = 10point
bronze= 50 point
silver= 100 point
gold=300 point
platinum=500 point
mithril=1000 point
and last diamonds = 5000 points
that way, the defense and offense would be more tactical and the roamers would be more…..careful and skillful
what are ranks for isnt it
there is a saying that goes like this
with great power comes great responsibility
and also to prevent the camp spawning, have the team ability to bombard all enemies within 10000 radius from spawn at a 1 hour cooldown, only tanks survive the zerkz dead on the spot, of course this would trigger 1st within an x amount of players on spawn much like siegecrusher and siegerazer does

I think it would just make the alt-f4 routine more prevalent.

sorry for the double post and this thread is tldr but anyway heres my suggestion
why not add the points per kill system like
a normal rank killed = 10point
bronze= 50 point
silver= 100 point
gold=300 point
platinum=500 point
mithril=1000 point
and last diamonds = 5000 points
that way, the defense and offense would be more tactical and the roamers would be more…..careful and skillful
what are ranks for isnt it
there is a saying that goes like this
with great power comes great responsibility
and also to prevent the camp spawning, have the team ability to bombard all enemies within 10000 radius from spawn at a 1 hour cooldown, only tanks survive the zerkz dead on the spot, of course this would trigger 1st within an x amount of players on spawn much like siegecrusher and siegerazer does
imagine the scythe of grenth or balthazar’s breath killing an opposing team

Norbe.7630:

sorry for the double post and this thread is tldr but anyway heres my suggestion
why not add the points per kill system like
a normal rank killed = 10point
bronze= 50 point
silver= 100 point
gold=300 point
platinum=500 point
mithril=1000 point
and last diamonds = 5000 points

Are these points for the killing players’ rank or for the killed players’ rank?

Anyways it simply won’t work with brainless eotm farmers thinking they are super diamond pros.

msalakka.4653:

Norbe.7630:

sorry for the double post and this thread is tldr but anyway heres my suggestion
why not add the points per kill system like
a normal rank killed = 10point
bronze= 50 point
silver= 100 point
gold=300 point
platinum=500 point
mithril=1000 point
and last diamonds = 5000 points
that way, the defense and offense would be more tactical and the roamers would be more…..careful and skillful
what are ranks for isnt it
there is a saying that goes like this
with great power comes great responsibility
and also to prevent the camp spawning, have the team ability to bombard all enemies within 10000 radius from spawn at a 1 hour cooldown, only tanks survive the zerkz dead on the spot, of course this would trigger 1st within an x amount of players on spawn much like siegecrusher and siegerazer does

I think it would just make the alt-f4 routine more prevalent.

could you explain why?
cuz some people want in wvw is to kill others to PPT, just giving both parties a fair deal imho

Entenkommando.5208:

Norbe.7630:

sorry for the double post and this thread is tldr but anyway heres my suggestion
why not add the points per kill system like
a normal rank killed = 10point
bronze= 50 point
silver= 100 point
gold=300 point
platinum=500 point
mithril=1000 point
and last diamonds = 5000 points

Are these points for the killing players’ rank or for the killed players’ rank?

Anyways it simply won’t work with brainless eotm farmers thinking they are super diamond pros.

killed players rank
eg: badlands Silver general= 100 pts
og platinum assaulter= 500pts and so on
and might suggest this only applys on BL’s and EB since eotm is full of uplevels atm

Norbe.7630:

Entenkommando.5208:

Norbe.7630:

sorry for the double post and this thread is tldr but anyway heres my suggestion
why not add the points per kill system like
a normal rank killed = 10point
bronze= 50 point
silver= 100 point
gold=300 point
platinum=500 point
mithril=1000 point
and last diamonds = 5000 points

Are these points for the killing players’ rank or for the killed players’ rank?

Anyways it simply won’t work with brainless eotm farmers thinking they are super diamond pros.

killed players rank
eg: badlands Silver general= 100 pts
og platinum assaulter= 500pts and so on
and might suggest this only applys on BL’s and EB since eotm is full of uplevels atm

No offense, but its a silly idea. The point of WvW is that everyone is a soldier in a big war. Targetting specific players for points is stupid beyond belief.

Besides, all you have to do is find a diamond on the other server, pay him some gold and then have him ganked all day. And thats not even counting griefers. Hell I would personally rush and die for hours just to make a point of how kittening bad that system would be.

i see the point, its just an idea and its a flexible one you can lower or raise the points to PPK and PPT depending on the situation, to make wvw better
Hell i would personally not waste my time being gangked all day for a few gold which i could earn more on SW for the same amount of time.
what would a diamond rank player do with gold anyway, sell them for real money perhaps..? the thing is there is a report button on that one, and im sure anet can read the chat and trade logs for that diamond one or two or even three and so on

Norbe.7630:

and im sure anet can read the chat and trade logs for that diamond one or two or even three and so on

They can’t even track if people teleport across the map within 5 seconds…

The point is that WvW ranks are not WvW exclusive so eotm noobs that farmed their Platinum would just massively damage their server.

I think it’s make sense if PPK had a timer for individuals. It wouldn’t have to be a long one, but it would stop someone from intentionally or unintentionally giving away say 15 points within 10 minutes.

I don’t think Points per Kills (PpK) is a good idea, because it is favors the side with larger numbers (it is far easier to score kills if you outnumber the enemy group) and it would make solo roaming even more harsh experience for those who don’t rely on stealth and/or teleports for escapes. Ideally WvWvW should cater many different play styles from solo roaming to full zone blobs. The new Borderland was supposed to make zergs to split, but in reality I haven’t seen that happen. When there is a lot of players the lag is worse than ever because of the central oasis event. We used more split team tactics in the old Alpine border. Now there is so few players that with just 2-4 players on the entire map on our side, that split team isn’t that effective, unless you talk about capturing camps (soloing a fully upgraded camp is still fast and easy).

Making PPK score higher related to the rank is a much worse idea. We have had already had more than enough commander focus firing/moa enemy commander. Now this would turn the game mode even more into a troll fest.

Points per Stomp (PpS) is better than PpK, because it requires you to stomp to score a point instead of spamming your auto attack and poison fields etc. at the downed enemies.

Serious side note: Both PpK and PpS can be abused.

I vote strongly against PpK and mildly against PpS.

Well ppk is surely not a system against huge blobs, but imo this should be fixed by other things anyways.
But it does make sure that a match between equal servers relies on their skill and not only on caps.

I am 100% for it. I am on sfr (EU) and we had to fight Vizunah for almost 2 years straight. You won 99% of the fights unless they outnumbered you 2:1 or had 10ac behind them but because they pvd to hell at 5am you don’t have any chance to win the match by points.
When you wanted to take a camp they respawned for hours to contest the circle just to make sure you wouldn’t cap it. (We actually did this for 2-3 hours yes…) Now imagine ppk there.
The point is: when your enemies are only hiding in their keeps and you can only get them to fight you by attacking their structures this is where you can actually get points then.

And in a world where guilds could actually fight larger groups they could also have a very meaningful impact.

I’d say it’s a very useful system for the future. But it can hardly ruin WvW anymore right now so…yes please.

Two years ago; a year ago; even five months ago… PPK would have been something worthwhile to debate.

But now, what difference will PPK make to the state of the game — whether good or bad?

At this point, it’s like worrying about a pimple when your cancer has metastasized.

ok time to review some algebra on PPK,
Data:
(Points per rank killed)
normal=5
bronze=10
silver=20
gold=30
platinum=50
mithril=65
diamond=80

(PPT for 1 week)
{600points}*{4tickperhour}*{24hoursperday}*{7days}=403,200 total score of the PPTers who dont kill at all

on the image below is an approx 20,000 kills and the so called ratio(killdeathratio)
the red team total score is 176,688 with a ratio of 1.01
blue team score is 148,125 with a ratio of 1.24
and green team is 129,715 with a ratio of 0.66
lets introduce the redundant factor in this game, the ratio
176,688*1.01=178,kitten new score for red
148,125*1.24=183,675 new score for blue
129,715*0.66=85,612 new score for green
so even the score on PPT of red is higher than blue the blue wins due to its higher multiplier caused by KDR, that means that even when a server has a wider coverage on the map in any given time, any server has a chance to beat them on points due to KDR

now for the 20,000 kills lets say the average players are all silvers as an example
20,000kills*20silverpoints=400,000 point
remember the PPT earlier about 403,200, thats a full map PPT of the week with zero kills, and the 400,000 point just by killing and not PPTing

the servers on lowers tiers have less kills like 10k, 5k, 2k and so on
the system will calculate points every 15mins (point tick) on the score and kdr and update the score instantly

now you guys decide if it can be used as a chemotherapy for the game…

Norbe.7630:

on the image below is an approx 20,000 kills and the so called ratio(killdeathratio)
the red team total score is 176,688 with a ratio of 1.01
blue team score is 148,125 with a ratio of 1.24
and green team is 129,715 with a ratio of 0.66
lets introduce the redundant factor in this game, the ratio
176,688*1.01=178,kitten new score for red
148,125*1.24=183,675 new score for blue
129,715*0.66=85,612 new score for green
so even the score on PPT of red is higher than blue the blue wins due to its higher multiplier caused by KDR, that means that even when a server has a wider coverage on the map in any given time, any server has a chance to beat them on points due to KDR

Say what? PPK is not KDR. Involving KDR in a war is ridiculous and have never done any good for any game whatsoever.

With normal PPK your 3 servers in that pic would rank exactly the same. In fact it would be even worse, since #3 would be even further behind.

That said, it would be hilarious to exploit a KDR system – just dont play the game and automaticly win every matchup. Nightcap everything during the night, then during the day dont engage anything your zerg cant kill for certain. Always run a 50 man monoblob and only targets groups of less than 5 people, run away from the rest. It doesnt matter if you only kill 1000 people during the day, as long as no one of yours die. Even if the nightcap wasnt effective and you currently only have 200,000 vs 300,000/350,000, dont fret – your 20:1 KDR ensure victory regardless of them having a million PPT points.

Dawdler.8521:

Norbe.7630:

on the image below is an approx 20,000 kills and the so called ratio(killdeathratio)
the red team total score is 176,688 with a ratio of 1.01
blue team score is 148,125 with a ratio of 1.24
and green team is 129,715 with a ratio of 0.66
lets introduce the redundant factor in this game, the ratio
176,688*1.01=178,kitten new score for red
148,125*1.24=183,675 new score for blue
129,715*0.66=85,612 new score for green
so even the score on PPT of red is higher than blue the blue wins due to its higher multiplier caused by KDR, that means that even when a server has a wider coverage on the map in any given time, any server has a chance to beat them on points due to KDR

Say what? PPK is not KDR. Involving KDR in a war is ridiculous and have never done any good for any game whatsoever.

With normal PPK your 3 servers in that pic would rank exactly the same. In fact it would be even worse, since #3 would be even further behind.

That said, it would be hilarious to exploit a KDR system – just dont play the game and automaticly win every matchup. Nightcap everything during the night, then during the day dont engage anything your zerg cant kill for certain. Always run a 50 man monoblob and only targets groups of less than 5 people, run away from the rest. It doesnt matter if you only kill 1000 people during the day, as long as no one of yours die. Even if the nightcap wasnt effective and you currently only have 200,000 vs 300,000/350,000, dont fret – your 20:1 KDR ensure victory regardless of them having a million PPT points.

i guess you got confused on algebra…
and i didnt say PPK is KDR i said we can introduce the “redundant factor” in the game
i can interpret KDR for you which is coined by Herbert Spencer, Survival of the Fittest, only the strong survives
“Involving KDR in a war is ridiculous”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

if that’s the strategy of your server then i have no right to question it, and again Survival of the fittest both physically and mentally to win a war

and the 20 kdr, is that from tier 8 server?
im sure you don’t want that 5 people killing your 50 man blob for a 10 kdr
Hint: (5 diamonds happily roaming/scouting for enemy zerg,while singing diamonds by rihanna on TS ,then luring them to their own zerg for an ambush)
cuz i dont want to show again some algebra if people doesn’t understand it at all

if you have anymore questions regarding the concept feel free to ask to make it better,

So far for a sneak peak i’m happy with the changes, i like 4 of 4 proposed changes especially on the rallies in WvW and rezzing. Giving smaller groups a chance to zerg bust is one of the first steps to reducing zerg sizes, because currently the most reliable way to win is just to have a bigger army then the other team.

Norbe.7630:

Dawdler.8521:

Norbe.7630:

on the image below is an approx 20,000 kills and the so called ratio(killdeathratio)
the red team total score is 176,688 with a ratio of 1.01
blue team score is 148,125 with a ratio of 1.24
and green team is 129,715 with a ratio of 0.66
lets introduce the redundant factor in this game, the ratio
176,688*1.01=178,kitten new score for red
148,125*1.24=183,675 new score for blue
129,715*0.66=85,612 new score for green
so even the score on PPT of red is higher than blue the blue wins due to its higher multiplier caused by KDR, that means that even when a server has a wider coverage on the map in any given time, any server has a chance to beat them on points due to KDR

Say what? PPK is not KDR. Involving KDR in a war is ridiculous and have never done any good for any game whatsoever.

With normal PPK your 3 servers in that pic would rank exactly the same. In fact it would be even worse, since #3 would be even further behind.

That said, it would be hilarious to exploit a KDR system – just dont play the game and automaticly win every matchup. Nightcap everything during the night, then during the day dont engage anything your zerg cant kill for certain. Always run a 50 man monoblob and only targets groups of less than 5 people, run away from the rest. It doesnt matter if you only kill 1000 people during the day, as long as no one of yours die. Even if the nightcap wasnt effective and you currently only have 200,000 vs 300,000/350,000, dont fret – your 20:1 KDR ensure victory regardless of them having a million PPT points.

i guess you got confused on algebra…
and i didnt say PPK is KDR i said we can introduce the “redundant factor” in the game
i can interpret KDR for you which is coined by Herbert Spencer, Survival of the Fittest, only the strong survives
“Involving KDR in a war is ridiculous”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

if that’s the strategy of your server then i have no right to question it, and again Survival of the fittest both physically and mentally to win a war

and the 20 kdr, is that from tier 8 server?
im sure you don’t want that 5 people killing your 50 man blob for a 10 kdr
Hint: (5 diamonds happily roaming/scouting for enemy zerg,while singing diamonds by rihanna on TS ,then luring them to their own zerg for an ambush)
cuz i dont want to show again some algebra if people doesn’t understand it at all

if you have anymore questions regarding the concept feel free to ask to make it better,

Oh I understand basic math alright, I just have no idea how you turn PPK into something you call the “redundant factor”, which you then show to be KDR multiplication.

If you want to get into the technical details on why any kind of multiplication with KDR sucks, then its the exact same reason runaway PPT scores for nightcapping sucks. What’s +1 for one server is -1 for another which exaggerate differences of points. So instead of servers going from 100,000/100,000 points to say 125,000/120,000 points (lets assume perfectly equal PPT and +1 points per kill) then your “redundant factor” score would be 156,250/80,000.

Now tell me how the hell 156K/80K is more fair than 125K/120K just because one side has 25% more deaths on a battlefield where asymmetric warfare and being outmanned is the norm rather than something strange?

ah, the KDR is the redundant factor which is practically like “nothing”, so we make good use to it by amplifying something with it to make it more useful, that case the points accumulated, now for every 15 mins is a tick right, read this carefully, the KDR in every 15 mins should multiply to the points on the PPT before it would be added to the scoreboard.
example,
red team with a 225 point tick and 1.23 kdr would add to the score an approx of 277
points on the score board and
blue team with a 400 point tick and 0.8 kdr would add 320 points on the score card
, KDR changes in every second if there are fights going right
that KDR calculation is for every 15 minutes please take note of this
while the PPK is totally something different, its like the IP, immediate points, and the kills per rank would make them even more exiting on the immediate points
while the KDR is like a twist on PPT, points per tick

on one hour there are four 15 min tick, so maybe ur 1st 15 min ur KRD is 1.25 then you got wiped on the 2nd 15 min ur KDR goes down to 0.60 then on the 3rd 15 min you got ur revenge by wiping them so your KDR got boosted to 1.5 and so on and so forth…

i hope you get the point cuz i typed so many “point” words lol

PPK won’t matter when you have megaserver tech filling up these maps with players…

It’s ok peeps, just breathe…

PPK wasn’t popular the one time I know it was used, made being a long player absolutely impossible.

PPK will kill WvW as much as taking our servers from us.