Guild Wars 2

No idea why they even thought this was a good idea. In what possible universe would it ever be a good idea?

I take no pride from abusing this stacking immobilize for underwater combat, but it is so kitten effective and easy… All because immobilize now stacks.

It’s just sad. Their whole CC system caters to the bad player. In games that handle CC well, CCs overwrite to prevent this kind of stupidity. You also have things like diminishing returns or SWTOR’s system where a person became invulnerable with a white bar over their head after a certain amount of CC.

You would feel really stupid if you dumped CC on someone in SWTOR with a white bar over their head (however, roots and stuns were handled differently). In this game, just have your AOE train drop all of their CC at the same time on the same people. No problem, you will likely be rewarded for doing that instead of being punished.

I noticed a trend with these developers…

No balance testing.

They will test in order to make sure it works but, they won’t spend 1 second of testing to find out if it makes sense. The last time I heard them say why they don’t test balancing changes was due to how much time it would take for the meta to adapt to their changes.

Try to wrap your head around that logic for a moment.

Any change they make will eventually force them to make more changes in the future due to how the meta adapted to the previous change. This is what I’d like to call the infinite waste of development time loop. Due to the way they make changes; they will be stuck making changes forever due to the structural imbalances of the previous change. Any problem they solve will create another problem.

Hahaha. More broken scenarios. You guys know they added this cause people complained that immobilized didn’t stack in PvE, do you?

I think it’s more fair to say that everything in the game is designed and attempted to be balanced based on small-scale fights… 5v5 max.

Anet did state they never had a wvw balancing team and do not intend to create one. Since sPvP has a dedicated team/subsection of the global balancing team the effect of patches to wvw is probably not tested at all due to very limited manpower and priority apart from “wvw patch events” every three to six months. The rest is PvE.

Diminishing returns and/or cc immunity were suggested by players in beta even, don`t expect any changes now.

Sad, but that`s how it is.

Zosk.5609:

I think it’s more fair to say that everything in the game is designed and attempted to be balanced based on small-scale fights… 5v5 max.

^ That’s really the heart of it.

But, this seems broken for small scale as well. That is three enemy players locking me down for over 20 seconds. This is one of those situations where I won’t complain about being a necro. Most other classes wouldn’t have made it through that with the hammer warrior pounded on them as well. Can’t dodge hammer stuns while rooted!

Who knows why they do half of what they do. They have no clue what they’re doing that’s obvious.

Zosk.5609:

I think it’s more fair to say that everything in the game is designed and attempted to be balanced based on small-scale fights… 5v5 max.

This. It has been claimed in the past that they do not care about balancing WvW at all (see the video that shall not be named, for example) and this shows that those claims are true.

It’s a 2v3 situation… How is this WvW specific?

sPvP players are opposed to this just as much.

Does condition removal suddenly not remove 20+ second stacks now or whats the point of this thread? A warrior can stack 20 seconds on his own before the patch by applying a new one right as the last one ends. This method would allow perma immobilize, but if they stack it all at once it just all disappears in one cleanse. If you get run over by a zerg you die in 3 seconds of immobilize, so what would be the point of the 15 seconds that gets removed the same way as a 3 second immobilize.

Thats nothing ^^ Zerg vs Zergs , I was the only one from us who got immo on me and the whole zerg kept moving.. so I died a pretty long death cos they needed forever to kill me.. but i just couldnt move.. nope i couldnt -.-
Its like they picked with 30-40 people 1 person out and immobilized him Xd, that thing needs a fix pretty fast

SLOTH.5231:

There should be cooldowns. If you are feared, immobilized, stunned, knock backed, float etc.. You should have some kind of immunity from it again for at least 5 seconds to prevent this.

I wouldn’t say immunity, but most MMO’s have diminishing returns on CC. Not this one.

I was going to post “Says the necro” but you don’t run dhuumfire at all. Good man.

Anet, fix this. It’s just completely clowny.

That really sucks, but at the same time I think there is a reason to clarify that it sucks because it was done by 3 people. If you had 20 people on top of you, I doubt you’d be greatly concerned by how long you had to stand there, but rather how hard they hit you before you die. Being able to stack 20+ seconds of immobilize with 3 people needs to be fixed, and it should’ve been caught by the Spvp guys, however I wouldn’t try to rush Anet into a diminishing returns on CC, cause if they put it in wrong it’ll make killing a decent escape artist a heck of a lot harder.

The longest immobilise I have been hit for was 13 seconds. Unfortunately I’m a Mesmer so I died as I struggled to remove the 4-5 covering conditions that were preventing me from removing the immobilise whilst it’s duration is being continually topped up.

Either the stacking needs to be removed or immobilise needs to be cleared by stun breakers just like Fear is, to prevent the ridiculous situation shown in the video above.

longest ive had on me was 32 seconds long, was 3 or 4 people applying it =/

oh my…

Oozo.7856:

I guess it was too easy fighting 5v15 before. Now you will have to do it while be rooted for 20+ seconds.

This is the big thing here

You used to be able to blow up queued size armies with a good guild group

Now immobilize stacking is completely out of control and makes it impossible to fight anything that’s larger than you.

If you want to discourage zerging then holy crap give some diminishing returns or stop forcing us to all roll a warrior

This is pretty messed up. Conditions in general are out of control right now. They need to give us condition immunity after being hit with CC. With all the changes they’ve made recently, it seems to be Anet’s intention to force people to run in giant blobs. Small groups and solo roamers are being screwed over more and more with each patch.

this game needs DR so bad….

I think one of its main problems is that it seems to be bugged in the way that iterate seems to disable all skills; that’s supposed to be stun :P

Regardless the amount of duration combined with the RNG of condi removal means that you are disabled for the duration of the fight, can cleanse that 2 stacks of Vuln and that 1 bleed, which is entirely helpful.

This group was obviously specced for long immobilization so looks like it works as intended. This condition should have been working like this since the beginning like cripple and chill does. They also sacrificed a lot of damage for immobilize if those 3 couldn’t down a rooted necro for 21 seconds. They also suck because you turned around and wiped them pretty easily. At least 1 was up leveled

This immobilize change has changed almost nothing in large group fights and in small it only effects venom share thieves sharing Devourer venom which would still be enough to kill most normal enemies before the patch anyways. Tell me which you would prefer a thief with 100% condition duration and all venom traits using sneak attack to give you 12 second immobilize in a group fight or a thief waiting 3.5 seconds before auto attacking you for the same 12 seconds. The first scenario you remove it all with a condition cleanse. The second scenario has existed since launch and barely anyone has complained about immobilize even though the second method is still possible and 3x more deadly.

Hey anet if you take the time to read this.

If you get immob’d while falling slightly, running along a steep enough slant or happen to have jumped as immob is being placed on you, you get stuck in a kind of fall animation. All your skills become useless, sometime stunbreakers too, but I have never died from any fall dmg related to this.

Something is screwy.

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

SLOTH.5231:

There should be cooldowns. If you are feared, immobilized, stunned, knock backed, float etc.. You should have some kind of immunity from it again for at least 5 seconds to prevent this.

I wouldn’t say immunity, but most MMO’s have diminishing returns on CC. Not this one.

Yep, even LOTRO PvMP has CC diminishing returns. And LOTRO is the definition of a PvE game where the devs flat out tell you PvP is something extra they do in their spare time.

glaphen.5230:

This immobilize change has changed almost nothing in large group fights and in small it only effects venom share thieves sharing Devourer venom which would still be enough to kill most normal enemies before the patch anyways. Tell me which you would prefer a thief with 100% condition duration and all venom traits using sneak attack to give you 12 second immobilize in a group fight or a thief waiting 3.5 seconds before auto attacking you for the same 12 seconds. The first scenario you remove it all with a condition cleanse. The second scenario has existed since launch and barely anyone has complained about immobilize even though the second method is still possible and 3x more deadly.

The second method has an opportunity cost: does the thief attack for more damage or time his attacks to maximize immobilization duration? In the first scenario the thief spams everything for maximum damage and immobilization duration. Also, unless this has been changed recently, immobilized is always the last condition to be removed in a condition stack, regardless of the timing of the application.

Which is why I said in a group fight in the first scenario its still easy to remove all duration in one condition removal skill letting you ignore almost all of the duration. The second scenario the thief can pretty much remove you from the fight while you take condition damage from his bleeds or you waste condition removal on a tiny immobilize to get immobilized some more. Plus this example is just thief venom, engineers and warriors can do the same thing but attack the entire time.

Heta.8629:

This group was obviously specced for long immobilization so looks like it works as intended. This condition should have been working like this since the beginning like cripple and chill does. They also sacrificed a lot of damage for immobilize if those 3 couldn’t down a rooted necro for 21 seconds. They also suck because you turned around and wiped them pretty easily. At least 1 was up leveled

By ‘specced’ you mean the thief had devourer venom and venom share.

Player Character.9467:

Heta.8629:

This group was obviously specced for long immobilization so looks like it works as intended. This condition should have been working like this since the beginning like cripple and chill does. They also sacrificed a lot of damage for immobilize if those 3 couldn’t down a rooted necro for 21 seconds. They also suck because you turned around and wiped them pretty easily. At least 1 was up leveled

By ‘specced’ you mean the thief had devourer venom and venom share.

The warriors most likely had sword/ longbow and throw bolas. Just devourer venom isn’t enough for immobilization that long

This actually happened to me while I was swimming in water at ruins. Only they knocked me to the surface of the water first (removing my skill bar completely) and immobilized me there. It was one of those situations where I just let go of my keyboard, sat back and watched myself die, completely powerless.

That too, was but a group of 3 or 4.

glaphen.5230:

Which is why I said in a group fight in the first scenario its still easy to remove all duration in one condition removal skill letting you ignore almost all of the duration. The second scenario the thief can pretty much remove you from the fight while you take condition damage from his bleeds or you waste condition removal on a tiny immobilize to get immobilized some more. Plus this example is just thief venom, engineers and warriors can do the same thing but attack the entire time.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2pvptv/c/3138606

In a group fight you’re going to be stacked with conditions from passive effects. Immobilize is always the last condition to be removed from the stack, which means you’ll have to burn through every condition removal you have to get rid of it.

With the old mechanic, for venomshare to maximize immobilize duration they have to stop attacking. No attack = less pressure. With the current mechanic, to maximize immobilize duration they can merely spam every single skill.

Heta.8629:

This group was obviously specced for long immobilization so looks like it works as intended. This condition should have been working like this since the beginning like cripple and chill does. They also sacrificed a lot of damage for immobilize if those 3 couldn’t down a rooted necro for 21 seconds. They also suck because you turned around and wiped them pretty easily. At least 1 was up leveled

Are you saying that low skill players on upleveled characters using bad builds should be capable of 20+ sec lockdowns? I don’t really think that’s a good argument. Especially since there is nothing preventing speccing for both long immobilize and enough damage to kill.

I’ve been seeing this tactic a lot recently, and it’s got me running on my thief more (withdraw and roll for initiative are good counters to this cheese). Too bad most classes lack a way to easily deal with immobilize specifically. I’d suggest buying Melandru runes and lemongrass soup ingredients as an investment, this tactic becoming “meta” will eventually require full -cond duration builds for anyone wanting to survive.

The change should either be reverted in PvP/WvW or stunbreakers and stability should be made to function on immobilize.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Heta.8629:

This group was obviously specced for long immobilization so looks like it works as intended. This condition should have been working like this since the beginning like cripple and chill does. They also sacrificed a lot of damage for immobilize if those 3 couldn’t down a rooted necro for 21 seconds. They also suck because you turned around and wiped them pretty easily. At least 1 was up leveled

Are you saying that low skill players on upleveled characters using bad builds should be capable of 20+ sec lockdowns? I don’t really think that’s a good argument. Especially since there is nothing preventing speccing for both long immobilize and enough damage to kill.

I’ve been seeing this tactic a lot recently, and it’s got me running on my thief more (withdraw and roll for initiative are good counters to this cheese). Too bad most classes lack a way to easily deal with immobilize specifically. I’d suggest buying Melandru runes and lemongrass soup ingredients as an investment, this tactic becoming “meta” will eventually require full -cond duration builds for anyone wanting to survive.

The change should either be reverted in PvP/WvW or stunbreakers and stability should be made to function on immobilize.

Since most if not all imob skills are single target and most are 2-3 seconds it cannot be stacked easily by one person or on a group. Only in these multi v 1 scenarios is this a problem and only by people who really spec to imob. I think the highest from one person is 9 seconds from a warrior with 2 weapons a trait and a utility skill and one good condition removal can take all that away instantly.

Immobilize should not last this long. Ridiculous, obnoxious, ludicrous. Fix it please.

Again like I’ve been saying the immobilize stacking hasn’t changed anything except for thief venom’s as you’re video points out again. If they want to revert it for wvw/spvp it wont change all these people complaining about dying in their tank builds because someone immobilized them for 2 seconds nor will it stop immobilize builds that can perma immobilize and has been unchanged since launch. Its the same thing with all these hammer warrior nerf cries, slowest joke weapon since launch is suddenly getting destroyed to appease bads who cant dodge Earthshaker.

CC is a major PROBLEM in this game in PVE, why on earth would they complain about it stacking when half the mobs in the current living world can immobilise you for 10 seconds upward in their hordes and have more ready incase you get rid of the current one.

It was two 80 thieves and one upscale warrior, for the record. But that is kind of irrelevant.

Sure, you could get long duration roots before BUT it required some timing and skill not just spamming all of your roots since the duration STACKS.

Having root work this way makes it FAR too easy which is why I suppose some people support it. They enjoy things that are easy and are repulsed by anything that looks like it might be challenging.

glaphen.5230:

Again like I’ve been saying the immobilize stacking hasn’t changed anything except for thief venom’s as you’re video points out again. If they want to revert it for wvw/spvp it wont change all these people complaining about dying in their tank builds because someone immobilized them for 2 seconds nor will it stop immobilize builds that can perma immobilize and has been unchanged since launch. Its the same thing with all these hammer warrior nerf cries, slowest joke weapon since launch is suddenly getting destroyed to appease bads who cant dodge Earthshaker.

Are you really that thick? Tell me how you consistently dodge earthshakers coming from a group that has 4+ warriors using it?

Heta.8629:

Thrashbarg.9820:

Heta.8629:

This group was obviously specced for long immobilization so looks like it works as intended. This condition should have been working like this since the beginning like cripple and chill does. They also sacrificed a lot of damage for immobilize if those 3 couldn’t down a rooted necro for 21 seconds. They also suck because you turned around and wiped them pretty easily. At least 1 was up leveled

Are you saying that low skill players on upleveled characters using bad builds should be capable of 20+ sec lockdowns? I don’t really think that’s a good argument. Especially since there is nothing preventing speccing for both long immobilize and enough damage to kill.

I’ve been seeing this tactic a lot recently, and it’s got me running on my thief more (withdraw and roll for initiative are good counters to this cheese). Too bad most classes lack a way to easily deal with immobilize specifically. I’d suggest buying Melandru runes and lemongrass soup ingredients as an investment, this tactic becoming “meta” will eventually require full -cond duration builds for anyone wanting to survive.

The change should either be reverted in PvP/WvW or stunbreakers and stability should be made to function on immobilize.

Since most if not all imob skills are single target and most are 2-3 seconds it cannot be stacked easily by one person or on a group. Only in these multi v 1 scenarios is this a problem and only by people who really spec to imob. I think the highest from one person is 9 seconds from a warrior with 2 weapons a trait and a utility skill and one good condition removal can take all that away instantly.

Woah, a warrior has to use 2 whole weapons and a trait and a utility to lock someone for 9 sec?

I guess it’s a good thing they get 2 weapons on swap by default and 3 utility slots to use and 70 trait points to spend. It’s also probably good that they can apply cover conditions easily, preventing most condition removals from even removing the immobilize. (I run a soldier’s rune shout guardian with PoV and this has happened to me, any skill that isn’t a full condi-wipe or immunity, hello again warriors=bestateverythingcrap, probably won’t even touch the immob if your opponents have half a brain between them).

Also, in any semi-organized, large scale fight, people call targets. Pretty advanced concept, yeah, but it happens, there’s even a function in the game for it.

Since you dodged my original question, I’ll ask it again:

Are you saying that low skill players on upleveled characters using bad builds should be capable of 20+ sec lockdowns?

Because that’s what I read in the post I originally quoted, and that’s some broken jive for any PvP game.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Heta.8629:

Thrashbarg.9820:

Heta.8629:

This group was obviously specced for long immobilization so looks like it works as intended. This condition should have been working like this since the beginning like cripple and chill does. They also sacrificed a lot of damage for immobilize if those 3 couldn’t down a rooted necro for 21 seconds. They also suck because you turned around and wiped them pretty easily. At least 1 was up leveled

Are you saying that low skill players on upleveled characters using bad builds should be capable of 20+ sec lockdowns? I don’t really think that’s a good argument. Especially since there is nothing preventing speccing for both long immobilize and enough damage to kill.

I’ve been seeing this tactic a lot recently, and it’s got me running on my thief more (withdraw and roll for initiative are good counters to this cheese). Too bad most classes lack a way to easily deal with immobilize specifically. I’d suggest buying Melandru runes and lemongrass soup ingredients as an investment, this tactic becoming “meta” will eventually require full -cond duration builds for anyone wanting to survive.

The change should either be reverted in PvP/WvW or stunbreakers and stability should be made to function on immobilize.

Since most if not all imob skills are single target and most are 2-3 seconds it cannot be stacked easily by one person or on a group. Only in these multi v 1 scenarios is this a problem and only by people who really spec to imob. I think the highest from one person is 9 seconds from a warrior with 2 weapons a trait and a utility skill and one good condition removal can take all that away instantly.

Woah, a warrior has to use 2 whole weapons and a trait and a utility to lock someone for 9 sec?

I guess it’s a good thing they get 2 weapons on swap by default and 3 utility slots to use and 70 trait points to spend. It’s also probably good that they can apply cover conditions easily, preventing most condition removals from even removing the immobilize. (I run a soldier’s rune shout guardian with PoV and this has happened to me, any skill that isn’t a full condi-wipe or immunity, hello again warriors=bestateverythingcrap, probably won’t even touch the immob if your opponents have half a brain between them).

Also, in any semi-organized, large scale fight, people call targets. Pretty advanced concept, yeah, but it happens, there’s even a function in the game for it.

Since you dodged my original question, I’ll ask it again:

Are you saying that low skill players on upleveled characters using bad builds should be capable of 20+ sec lockdowns?

Because that’s what I read in the post I originally quoted, and that’s some broken jive for any PvP game.

If there are enough low levels who have enough imob skills then yes they should be able to stack imob up to 5 times in duration. Conditions are stacking in duration as intended

It’s really amazing that anyone would defend this. But, then again, people defend perplexity and non-targetable AoE attacks that do CC and huge damage at the same time on a very short cooldown so I shouldn’t be surprised.

The main difference between immobilize and the other conditions is that you can’t dodge while immobilized. This, along with the fact that you can’t turn (this is the only game I’ve played that won’t allow you to turn while rooted) makes it almost as effective as a stun in many situations.

And, like many things in this game, the change favors the side that has more numbers. Having it stack by duration is a huge CC force multiplier. The last thing this game needs is to make the fights even harder for the side with fewer numbers.

I have a good bit of patience, but my patience starts wearing thin when I spend entire nights fighting 20+ with less than 10 and this change makes that even harder to pull off. If I didn’t know better (cough) I’d say they are trying to force people to run with zerg blobs.

Perhaps they should be informed that a lot of people would rather quit the game than demean themselves by resorting to that playstyle. That is what will end up killing this game in the long run.

It would be funny to see two zergs using immobilize against each other,all immobilized standing in a field staring each other.

Mostly Warriors would defend this seeing as they either have -98% immobilize duration (and get phat stacks of regeneration) or they have Mobile Strikes-trait which turns their “mobility skills” into an immobilize breaker.

For the record, there are 7 such abilities and most warriors have 5 of them available in his build. Mobility skills include something like Savage Leap on sword, which has just an 8second cooldown.
And thats ofcourse completely ignoring all their condition removal or flat out immunity to conditions on command.

Needles to say, Warriors dont give a single kitten about being immobilized. And they are the only profession that is in this advantageous position to shake off immobilize like its nothing at all.
So ofcourse they love immobilize stacking. It doesnt negatively affect them, but it makes landing those 100b insta-gibs or CC-hammer-trains all that much easier.

glaphen.5230:

Again like I’ve been saying the immobilize stacking hasn’t changed anything except for thief venom’s as you’re video points out again. If they want to revert it for wvw/spvp it wont change all these people complaining about dying in their tank builds because someone immobilized them for 2 seconds nor will it stop immobilize builds that can perma immobilize and has been unchanged since launch. Its the same thing with all these hammer warrior nerf cries, slowest joke weapon since launch is suddenly getting destroyed to appease bads who cant dodge Earthshaker.

I quess oeggs is just another baddie then.

Not going to defend it, but the solution is real easy and not something that even require balancing changes. Anet could simply make cleansing prioritize immobilize/chill/cripple.

The problem is the fact that people abuse stacking conditions (necros in particular are nasty at this, oh the irony). Stack 6+ different conditions on someone and its impossible to get that immobilize off. Even if you cleanse 4 of them, they are reapplied in seconds. Its not only immobilize, posion is another thing that can be applied for 40+ seconds with no way to cleanse it until the next cooldown (which can be 20s+ away).

When you combine it all its… not good. You got 20s immobilize, 40s posion, 2s chill and 3 bleed stacks. Cleansing double whammo! You got 19s immobilize and 39s poison o__o

Yes, my condition warrior runs dogged march, melandru, and lemongrass while at the same time being able to chain pin down and flurry for roots. So, this change is AWESOME for my condition warrior. That still won’t stop me from calling it out for being extremely bad for the game from both a balance and mechanics standpoint.

Oozo.7856:

Yes, my condition warrior runs dogged march, melandru, and lemongrass while at the same time being able to chain pin down and flurry for roots. So, this change is AWESOME for my condition warrior. That still won’t stop me from calling it out for being extremely bad for the game from both a balance and mechanics standpoint.

Probably the difference between how immobilize affects your warrior and your necromancer is what gets me. A long immobilize kills some people while it gives regen to others. What sort of balance is this?