Guild Wars 2

Naw. Ground is green. Sky is blue. I’m a glutton for punishment, and so are you. =D

Fozzik.1742:

@ King Amadaeus –
Wow, you’re smart. I bet you’ve got that website bookmarked so you can learn all the high-tech science, and dazzle all the second graders you meet.

You must be correct. SF doesn’t have a population advantage. It’s all in my head. Each night, when I am fighting with 5 other people against multiple 10 to 30-man SF groups…it’s all just a trick of the light bouncing off of things. Thanks for clearing that up.

Dude, you are seeing one thing, and everyone else is seeing another. Here’s a link for you.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002520/

I truly hope that you get the help and medication you need.

I can see I riled you up….As I have said, numerous times….I played on ET, there is no great population difference on SF. I cannot (again, as I have said) really speak to FC with no prior knowledge. If you are fighting 30 people with your 5 I would say, revise your strategy my friend….

The point I was trying to make was that, when I was on ET we always whined and complained about the 40 man SF zergs…..Well looking back, the problem we had wasnt shear numbers, it was getting those people into WvW. They were there sometimes, just not that often, they were there at reset for sure…

Like I said, I cant speak to FC, haven’t been there. Maybe you are out-manned tremendously, legitimately. But my point was dont think just cause you login and play a certain time that we are 50 strong…because there’s times we cant muster 10 people in all of EB to defend an upgraded keep.

SniffyCube.6107:

Fozzik.1742:

@ King Amadaeus –
Wow, you’re smart. I bet you’ve got that website bookmarked so you can learn all the high-tech science, and dazzle all the second graders you meet.

You must be correct. SF doesn’t have a population advantage. It’s all in my head. Each night, when I am fighting with 5 other people against multiple 30-man SF zergs…it’s all just a trick of the light bouncing off of things. Thanks for clearing that up.

Dude, you are seeing one thing, and everyone else is seeing another. Here’s a link for you.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002520/

I truly hope that you get the help and medication you need.

I lol’d

Me too

King Amadaeus.8619:

I can see I riled you up….As I have said, numerous times….I played on ET, there is no great population difference on SF. I cannot (again, as I have said) really speak to FC with no prior knowledge. If you are fighting 30 people with your 5 I would say, revise your strategy my friend….

The point I was trying to make was that, when I was on ET we always whined and complained about the 40 man SF zergs…..Well looking back, the problem we had wasnt shear numbers, it was getting those people into WvW. They were there sometimes, just not that often, they were there at reset for sure…

Like I said, I cant speak to FC, haven’t been there. Maybe you are out-manned tremendously, legitimately. But my point was dont think just cause you login and play a certain time that we are 50 strong…because there’s times we cant muster 10 people in all of EB to defend an upgraded keep.

The great difference is that SF have more people than ET for more time than ET have more people than SF.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Fozzik.1742:

@ King Amadaeus –
Wow, you’re smart. I bet you’ve got that website bookmarked so you can learn all the high-tech science, and dazzle all the second graders you meet.

You must be correct. SF doesn’t have a population advantage. It’s all in my head. Each night, when I am fighting with 5 other people against multiple 10 to 30-man SF groups…it’s all just a trick of the light bouncing off of things. Thanks for clearing that up.

Dude, you are seeing one thing, and everyone else is seeing another. Here’s a link for you.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002520/

I truly hope that you get the help and medication you need.

I can see I riled you up….As I have said, numerous times….I played on ET, there is no great population difference on SF. I cannot (again, as I have said) really speak to FC with no prior knowledge. If you are fighting 30 people with your 5 I would say, revise your strategy my friend….

The point I was trying to make was that, when I was on ET we always whined and complained about the 40 man SF zergs…..Well looking back, the problem we had wasnt shear numbers, it was getting those people into WvW. They were there sometimes, just not that often, they were there at reset for sure…

Like I said, I cant speak to FC, haven’t been there. Maybe you are out-manned tremendously, legitimately. But my point was dont think just cause you login and play a certain time that we are 50 strong…because there’s times we cant muster 10 people in all of EB to defend an upgraded keep.

Yet there are also times when both servers are able to muster a full force at the same time and I’d wager high stakes that at that time, SF would have a much larger force.

Mainly it’s all about the available resources to be able to pull from. If all three servers put out a Call for Arms for a big event, mustering all available players with a notion for Wv3 PvP, SF would have it in numbers by a good margin.
Yes, not everybody is going to want to Wv3 all the time. There are many things to do in the game, but when the stakes are high and the call goes out, SF has the people to fill the need.

The rest of it is all about Time. When people are available or not. What perspective are you seeing? Your specific time frame of play? maybe SF doesn’t have the numbers shown when you are in the thick of it.

Bottom line is even though you can say to have seen 2 sides of this triumvirate (sp?) have you seen it from all aspects and angles?

Not aiming any ill towards you, just gauging the entirety of the picture you see.

Jeknar.6184:

Fozzik.1742:

People keep talking about the sky being blue. I just don’t see it. I’ve looked and I’ve been outside where the sky is… doesn’t look blue to me.

I think the sky is green… Just like ET BL…

thanks for the update. i havn’t been able to play in a couple days… in between selling my home so being in a mad rush to pack everything, and my ISP going screwy 2 nights ago… BLARGH.

People on FC don’t go to WvW because they gave up around the mid-Kaineng era, came back during the first 2 weeks of SF, and left once we realized it was the same thing all over again. The reason FC seems dead right now is because people are waiting on the server matchup to change.

also I’m coming back home soon, I hate t5

Darek.1836:

People on FC don’t go to WvW because they gave up around the mid-Kaineng era, came back during the first 2 weeks of SF, and left once we realized it was the same thing all over again. The reason FC seems dead right now is because people are waiting on the server matchup to change.

also I’m coming back home soon, I hate t5

That is really something I was trying in a round-about way to address….This was happening on ET too, but it was getting translated (in map chat, and on forums) as though SF had this massive population advantage…When in reality it was a lack of participation on our (ET at the time)end. Many are fed up with the matchup, on all sides…The number dwindling issue will only get worse, SF has superior numbers at times because we are winning and people are finding reasons to go into WvW (farming, dailys, etc).

I guess what I am trying to say (poorly no doubt judging by the heat I have generated), is that when you’re winning you got tons of people most the time, when you’re losing you are “outmanned” most of the time.

IF we ever get out of T8, I bet the first reset night ET & maybe even FC will have queues, then depending on how that night goes: so will go your population in WvW. Likewise with SF, first night in T7, we prob wont even be able to get into EB, but if we get rolled that night, then I would venture to guess we would be thinking we were severely outmanned as well.

I guess the reason the outmanned thing is such a subject for me, is that here lately one of the topics in map chat in WvW has been our lack of people at key moments…So when you spend a considerable amount of time rallying folks up for a defense, etc…It seems hard to believe that you can outnumber an enemy to the extent that is perpetuated on the forums.

Darek.1836:

People on FC don’t go to WvW because they gave up around the mid-Kaineng era, came back during the first 2 weeks of SF, and left once we realized it was the same thing all over again. The reason FC seems dead right now is because people are waiting on the server matchup to change.

also I’m coming back home soon, I hate t5

early:
wb missed you xoxoxo

is all tta coming with ?

Daemonne.5018:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Fozzik.1742:

@ King Amadaeus –
Wow, you’re smart. I bet you’ve got that website bookmarked so you can learn all the high-tech science, and dazzle all the second graders you meet.

You must be correct. SF doesn’t have a population advantage. It’s all in my head. Each night, when I am fighting with 5 other people against multiple 10 to 30-man SF groups…it’s all just a trick of the light bouncing off of things. Thanks for clearing that up.

Dude, you are seeing one thing, and everyone else is seeing another. Here’s a link for you.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002520/

I truly hope that you get the help and medication you need.

I can see I riled you up….As I have said, numerous times….I played on ET, there is no great population difference on SF. I cannot (again, as I have said) really speak to FC with no prior knowledge. If you are fighting 30 people with your 5 I would say, revise your strategy my friend….

The point I was trying to make was that, when I was on ET we always whined and complained about the 40 man SF zergs…..Well looking back, the problem we had wasnt shear numbers, it was getting those people into WvW. They were there sometimes, just not that often, they were there at reset for sure…

Like I said, I cant speak to FC, haven’t been there. Maybe you are out-manned tremendously, legitimately. But my point was dont think just cause you login and play a certain time that we are 50 strong…because there’s times we cant muster 10 people in all of EB to defend an upgraded keep.

Yet there are also times when both servers are able to muster a full force at the same time and I’d wager high stakes that at that time, SF would have a much larger force.

Mainly it’s all about the available resources to be able to pull from. If all three servers put out a Call for Arms for a big event, mustering all available players with a notion for Wv3 PvP, SF would have it in numbers by a good margin.
Yes, not everybody is going to want to Wv3 all the time. There are many things to do in the game, but when the stakes are high and the call goes out, SF has the people to fill the need.

The rest of it is all about Time. When people are available or not. What perspective are you seeing? Your specific time frame of play? maybe SF doesn’t have the numbers shown when you are in the thick of it.

Bottom line is even though you can say to have seen 2 sides of this triumvirate (sp?) have you seen it from all aspects and angles?

Not aiming any ill towards you, just gauging the entirety of the picture you see.

All valid and reasonable points…My time of play is every evening 6-9p EST, and usually during the day and nights of weekends. I fully understand we likely have a larger server, its just that I do not think our opponents understand just how few we truly have online most of the time. Instead there seems to be this perception that we continuously have 100+ players on call and at the ready 24hrs a day, and that’s just not even remotely accurate.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Reading through this and a few other threads one thing I have noticed the ET and FC people saying is: SF is persistent. That is the largest difference I noticed. I cannot speak for FC, but on ET just have many of you have attested to in this thread, one defeat or route and ET abandons ship…that is one of the things that made me sour on the server to begin with….With SF, they just get mad and keep pushing…I have said many times since coming here that SF runs on negative reinforcement. If everything we are trying doesnt work they dont go run a dungeon; they figure out how to get it done even if that means PVDOOR or rushing a sieged area over and over until we cap it.

Push! Push in now! Keep pushing!! Run back from WP and push more! (I say this stuff a lot when I am dead)

I think this is a big part of it. If you are someone that runs around with me in WvW you will learn I just don’t care if I die. I will do everything I can to punish/destroy what my objective is, over and over and over and over if needed, until I achieve it. Or until something that has more strategic/point value is announced over chat.

Take the ET keep in EB last night. Most (all but 2 or 3) of my fellow SF servermates would not run into the inner keep because there were ballista and ac setup all over (our fault, we trebbed both sides open but nobody would listen to chat about which side to go to to push into so we gave them time to setup siege). I pushed in and attacked siege over and over (lost count after my fifth death and continued running from SM) until the siege was gone (Shout out to Katiebrie and the others who were doing the same). At that time the SF zerg decided they could rush in without dying and we capped it.

Persistence will almost always win out, no matter the odds (though odds make it easier to win out, of course). Yes, i pay a crap ton in repair bills but selling the stuff from all the loot bags I get covers it, no problem.

Now, if I can remain persistent in getting more people to push at the right time…

Well, with what we end up taking over at times, I know that not to be true. But once we obtain it, it doesn’t seem to take too long (at certain times) to see a Huge Pain Train roll up on us once we’ve started to settle. As if someone Map Shouted in PVE territory “ET has Landed and taken our Reeses’ Pieces, time to send him home” and BAM here comes the horde.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

Take the ET keep in EB last night. Most (all but 2 or 3) of my fellow SF servermates would not run into the inner keep because there were ballista and ac setup all over (our fault, we trebbed both sides open but nobody would listen to chat about which side to go to to push into so we gave them time to setup siege). I pushed in and attacked siege over and over (lost count after my fifth death and continued running from SM) until the siege was gone (Shout out to Katiebrie and the others who were doing the same). At that time the SF zerg decided they could rush in without dying and we capped it.

Oh, thank GAWD there are others on our server who kamakaze siege! Oftentimes, it feels like I’m the only one going on those kamakaze runs. :-/ When I see siege that’s preventing our people from getting in, it becomes my purpose in life to take said siege out. Had I been there for that fight, I would have been side-by-side with you and Katie.

Manoa.5897:

Oh, thank GAWD there are others on our server who kamakaze siege! Oftentimes, it feels like I’m the only one going on those kamakaze runs. :-/ When I see siege that’s preventing our people from getting in, it becomes my purpose in life to take said siege out. Had I been there for that fight, I would have been side-by-side with you and Katie.

LOL, it does feel quite lonely when you are dead in the middle of all those red tags and you look back and NOBODY followed your path of destruction. I leave people in the downed state all the time as I rush towards the siege. If a couple people followed me they could at least take those downed players out!

I hear you on that, kamikaze runs are so fun, for me at least! Hopefully we see each other around the maps more!

insanemaniac.2456:

early:
wb missed you xoxoxo

is all tta coming with ?

Unfortunately TTA has semed to have died
Lukian plays no longer and there’s only a handful of people left in the guild. Hopefuly me and a couple of others can manage to come back (20g per transfer is really hard to do)

Darek.1836:

Unfortunately TTA has semed to have died
Lukian plays no longer and there’s only a handful of people left in the guild. Hopefuly me and a couple of others can manage to come back (20g per transfer is really hard to do)

20g is easy pie if you take a day off to do some dungeons… Of course, you’ll always be broke if you just sit on WvW all day…

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

Manoa.5897:

Oh, thank GAWD there are others on our server who kamakaze siege! Oftentimes, it feels like I’m the only one going on those kamakaze runs. :-/ When I see siege that’s preventing our people from getting in, it becomes my purpose in life to take said siege out. Had I been there for that fight, I would have been side-by-side with you and Katie.

LOL, it does feel quite lonely when you are dead in the middle of all those red tags and you look back and NOBODY followed your path of destruction. I leave people in the downed state all the time as I rush towards the siege. If a couple people followed me they could at least take those downed players out!

I hear you on that, kamikaze runs are so fun, for me at least! Hopefully we see each other around the maps more!

I <3 those kamikaze runs! I think suicide runs to take out siege is by far my most favorite part of WvW.

(Also, spelling fail in my earlier post. Bad Manoa. :p Need moar coffee!)

Darek.1836:

People on FC don’t go to WvW because they gave up around the mid-Kaineng era, came back during the first 2 weeks of SF, and left once we realized it was the same thing all over again. The reason FC seems dead right now is because people are waiting on the server matchup to change.

also I’m coming back home soon, I hate t5

Good, now convince the old ENVY crew to come with. It’d be a hella fun thing to
witness. As for TTA, you still have some of your crew on FC. Maybe the lot of you
can re-birth it?

Darek.1836:

insanemaniac.2456:

early:
wb missed you xoxoxo

is all tta coming with ?

Unfortunately TTA has semed to have died
Lukian plays no longer and there’s only a handful of people left in the guild. Hopefuly me and a couple of others can manage to come back (20g per transfer is really hard to do)

Would be nice seeing you back on FC territory Moobs. Maybe then when I ask someone nicely to take a crew and recap something while I am working on another area I can get that help unlike (a commander I will not mention who decided to follow me around and we lost camps in the process). I am sure anyone on Fergs knows the individual in question.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Culling is god-awful lately, ever since they issued that last “fix” it has gotten much worse…with that said I always add 5-10 people over what I see. So if you say not more than 35 I surely will take your word…Once I physically see more than 25 tags I assume at least 30-35 people are there.

The point being is that 25-30 people on one map (for the lowest 3 servers) is a fairly substantial number of participants.

if you see an ET zerg, and you count 20 people… culling is probably not lying to you. most of the time we don’t pop orange swords on the map, which means we absolutely positively cannot have more than 25 people in that fight.

just sayin’

Score updates! Now with 300% more bored levitating Fergers.

King Amadaeus.8619:

I played on ET, there is no great population difference on SF. I cannot (again, as I have said) really speak to FC with no prior knowledge.

Well. You have not been paying attention then. Maybe it was due to the fact that Orange Swords came up anytime, or what have you, that gave the illusion of having forces.

But, SF vastly outnumbers ET and FC. but maybe, the issue was, that did not mean they always won.

I ate a zerg ball to the face when I took this Screen Shot, as you can see, I was not alone in being stomped.

But even tho, ET was vastly out numbered, that did not mean we lost. Perhaps it is those moments as you reflect back that have distorted what you think you saw, with what was really there.

The top one was after we started to fight back, the bottom one was when they first hit. Reverse order, because something got messed up when I tried to upload them.

Nearly double the combined score?

We keep this up, Ferg and ET might get to fight someone they have a shot at stomping.

katz.8376:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Culling is god-awful lately, ever since they issued that last “fix” it has gotten much worse…with that said I always add 5-10 people over what I see. So if you say not more than 35 I surely will take your word…Once I physically see more than 25 tags I assume at least 30-35 people are there.

The point being is that 25-30 people on one map (for the lowest 3 servers) is a fairly substantial number of participants.

if you see an ET zerg, and you count 20 people… culling is probably not lying to you. most of the time we don’t pop orange swords on the map, which means we absolutely positively cannot have more than 25 people in that fight.

just sayin’

I gotta say, the change to the Orange Swords have totally opened my eyes as to the real deal of our forces, and it’s now a joke to me to hear some making a claim about a 25+ man ET Zerg.

Scumbag Mawile.6384:

Nearly double the combined score?

We keep this up, Ferg and ET might get to fight someone they have a shot at stomping.

We don’t really want to stomp anyone, ideally a close split like tier 6 saw in the past weeks would be the achieved result, even better if there were frequent shifts in what server is green team, red team, blue team with victories and losses based more on weekly strategies, competent commanding and micro management rather than just issues with numbers.

Such a thing may be impossible to achieve though. But we can only hope.

But then again, where did “hope” get us when we hoped ArenaNet would at least see that there is a real problem with the math in tier 8 when they’re statement of “It will fix itself in a few weeks” fell apart like a soggy cookie.

This waiting game we’ve all been playing is getting old, whether your Sorrow’s Furnace, Eredon Terrace, or Ferguson’s Crossing. Equally Kaineng and Devona’s Rest know what its felt like, and it only gets worse every time it happens.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

I entirely understand your sentiment though, especially when it’s been as consistent as it has for several weeks; trust me when I say you’re not the only ones who get the most out of WvW you can by negating the less lucrative/risk investment areas. And maybe I would get bored of it, I just know I had much more fun in WvW when we were losing, than lately when we have been winning.

I don’t mind fighting to the last against hopeless odds IF it has a point to it, my death count can attest to that. I’ll give you an example, when we took the SF BL Keep, we had a good force (a full 5 people) stay behind to hold the keep as long as we could, so that everyone that was there could suffer though that jump puzzle of a vista point (It was rather funny watching it rain Norn and Charr)

But in that case, yah, I fought to my last, and a few times over to keep SF out for our fellow server and guild mates to get their needed Poi’s and stuff. But, that was because I had a reason.

The truth is, the outcome of every week is.. SF wins. So, lets be real here, there is zero point in fighting you guys unless it’s going to be either a fun fight or a worthwhile one.

But to stand around waiting at a keep for SF to finally overrun us when we could be doing something fun or worthwhile? Why that is as lame as camping the jumping puzzle. Pass on that.

Linkisdead.9647:

I really hope SF moves out of this tier because I can’t stand Ungood crying everyday about being “vastly outnumbered”

You have lower numbers than SF, this is a fact, there’s no need to go overboard and claim the numbers are vastly in our favor. We’ve lost numbers as well with people transferring out of the tier or staying out of wvw due to boredom.

Honestly I think at this point its mostly morale. For the last two weeks outside of an instance or two, ET and FC gave up pretty quick. SF gets moved out of a keep or gets wiped, we keep throwing people at the gates until you break.

Lately it seems like we halt your zerg and they disappear from the map. I think this has a lot to do with our past as newer WvWers on our side assume we are going to get it back so they don’t mind running back after a death. I think on your side players are used to getting thrashed so they don’t even try again.

I think the numbers discussion should no longer be about how many we have active in wvw, but the crazy low amount of players you have.

In EB even when commanders aren’t on we still have a small group of 5 or so taking towers. It’s downright silly to cry about us having vast numbers when we only have 5 or 10 on the map. Is it out fault we had a few guys on being productive, or is it yours for having no group effort?

ET and FC gave up pretty quick? Don’t flatter yourselves on Sorrow’s Furnace too much.

We didn’t give up against two weeks of Sorrow’s Furnace, at least we of FC didn’t. Our numbers and coverage in week 3 and 4 were barely different from weeks 1 and 2, your server on the other hand increased its WvWvW showing massively, and we realized immediately we couldn’t match it equally no matter what.

But alas, I don’t despise Sorrow’s Furnace at all at this point, but you misunderstand. We didn’t give up to two weeks of Sorrow’s Furnace. We gave up after MONTHS of the Glicko 2 hell hole.

We of FC fought against Devona’s Rest and Kaineng who both had tier 5 numbers and in the NA prime time even dwarfed your server. We fought against them FOR MONTHS, with everything we had. We did not give up easy, we gave up hard. We fought harder than you can imagine, for longer than you can imagine against much worse things than SF has ever had to face for more than a single week. Tier 7-6 saw Devona’s Rest and Kaineng for a week each only, despite the fact that we have even less numbers than these servers in tier 7 according to most and saw them for months rather than the one week they did, and also had HIGHER SCORES against them than tier 7 did, and fought against them with everything we had for months, we fought them despite being so outclassed (Even more so than we are by SF) they couldn’t get scores like your server does against us up until the last 3 weeks with Kaineng, we had our borderland on almost a 24/7 lockdown defense with daily EB strikes and almost never lost our borderland outside Kaineng managing to night-cap it on very rare occasions. Think about the effort and coordination that took.

Us giving up, (which we haven’t really done, merely given up on trying to win.. we still show up in WvWvW and have fun here and there, surprisingly) was not against 2 weeks of Sorrows’ Furnace, it was giving up in the face of everything we’ve endured for the 3-4 months or so prior.

Lol, if we didn’t have people get bored two weeks ago we probably would have been out of the tier by now. We lost a tenth of a point last week and 50pts the weeks before, but we haven’t lost any points other than that since the first week we won.

We stand to gain 40pts so far in the MOS ranking, the only problem SF has had was to be matched up with two teams with low scores, so if anything we are the least at fault in this whole T8 ratings fiasco. I really believe now that it really wasn’t SF that received tons of transfers before the free ones ended but that the other servers actually lost people.

I’m hoping into wvw tonight, hoping to see everyone there. I’m certainly not bored! Just hope I can get imgur to work so I can post my screenshots. Oh and I’ll wear my glasses!

Kay.5416:

I’m hoping into wvw tonight, hoping to see everyone there. I’m certainly not bored! Just hope I can get imgur to work so I can post my screenshots. Oh and I’ll wear my glasses!

Oh nice…you are a player new to WvW. So glad you are having fun, get some good screenshots.

Detharos I’m not sure why you’re going on about Kain or other stuff from months ago as I clearly stated I was speaking of the last week. You can laugh all you want, but are you really going to tell me with a straight face that you’ve put up a real fight the last week?

Ungood everyone knows Glicko has a blind spot for tier 8. If you’re claiming its the right and correct system then you also have to think this is the correct match up, right?

I’ll go ahead and prepare for all the replies about you guys being amazingly skilled players who are only losing because we have a giant mindless zergball with no talent, direction, or organization to speak of.

Linkisdead.9647:

Ungood everyone knows Glicko has a blind spot for tier 8. If you’re claiming its the right and correct system then you also have to think this is the correct match up, right?

Are you really trying to entertain that the system used by pretty much every PvP game on the market (or they use a variant of the Glicko system) can’t tell that SF is supposed to out-man ET and FC?

Please, tell me another one.

The reason why Glicko is failing T8 is because of all that months old stuff that Detharos is going on about that you can’t figure out why.

Detharos I’m not sure why you’re going on about Kain or other stuff from months ago

So now you’re backing the system that we’re all complaining about in a thread like two up from this one?

It’s an awful system for us in tier 8…unless you can use it to prove how good you are. Right.

Linkisdead.9647:

So now you’re backing the system that we’re all complaining about in a thread like two up from this one?

It’s an awful system for us in tier 8…unless you can use it to prove how good you are. Right.

Allow me to Explain it to you, with a quote by me, from that thread.

Ungood.3054:

The first is that Transfers Artificially Altered the numbers.

This may have given a vastly low number to T8 specifically, because as a server that got an influx of people went to pull out, it would have had to start at where Glicko thought it was, and then pound till it pulled out, as Glicko corrected where it belonged. In this case, it’s first pull out is the hardest, and as such, T8 takes the largest hit.

Had they not had free transfers, the Glicko system would have been better, and the numbers may have been inherently closer or at least reflect where some tiers should be.

To give that real numbers: ET and FC are now rated at 600 point worlds. However, a good chunk of their damage was done by Kaineng puling out, hence why SF lost 150 points when they came here at first. Had Kaineng not received an influx of serious WvWvW players, then FC and ET would be hovering much higher and SF would not have taken the loss it took upon coming here.

So, the reality is, ET and FC might be closer to 800 even 900 point worlds, which would mean that SF is really a 1200 point world, but, because of the Transfers damage was done. Now many worlds might be also affected by this, but because they can move down and up, they can be rectified faster as they face different and new opponents, ET and FC can’t, because they can’t move about.

What this means is that, ET and FC lost many points over the time that Kain pulled out, points, that because we are T8 and thus can’t move around, we can’t gain back.

Now, we might have been able to get them back somewhat by facing solid opponents and thus earning ranks backs, but that got shot to death when SF got an influx of players at the start of week 3 which blasted our already artificially low scores even further down, thus creating the T8 sinkhole everyone is fussing about, but that does not change the fact that Glicko is accurate that SF is 300 points ahead of ET and FC.

I realize that I may have put up a large post, but I don’t have a TL;DR for you to read. You should go and read what others have said and inform yourself on the situation and maybe see what Glicko does and how it works.

Lol… not sure why you guys in ET stopped to fight the grub when you guys outnumbered us out here in EB. But you guys gave us enough time to put out calls for backup, nice job.

FilthyRat.4652:

Lol… not sure why you guys in ET stopped to fight the grub when you guys outnumbered us out here in EB. But you guys gave us enough time to put out calls for backup, nice job.

I spy at LEAST 25 ETers in that pic. :p

That was a very strange and bizarre fight. Pity I had to bow out mid-fight.

I just wish a lot of my fellow Fc comrades would learn to carry or resupply when they are out. There is nothing more disappointing then going to start a seige and see five plans laid down and only enough supply to build one. I was in a small group today trying to retake a tower two rams were laid down but only one was fully built. We eventually got the gate down but a second later Sf swarm down wiped us out. Now if we woulda had both Rams going we would’ve had more than enough time to cture the tower. That’s one thing I have noticed from Sf when they lay a seige I hardly ever see a blueprint not built completely. We on the other hand unfortunately do it all the time.

katz.8376:

and d’ya know how we took second place back? we took all your stuff.

i’ll admit. you guys did good friday/saturday. kudos.

but we still took it back. currently ET has better morning coverage than FC, just like SF has better afternoon/evening coverage than either of us.

Finaly, someone who knows the situation. this is true, if i had to break it down to 24 hour time each day manpower would be USA time:

-1:30-12:30 – SF 500 (que full ect), ET and FC (100-200)

-12:30-7:00 – SF 5-10, ET 5-10 FC 15-20 <— befor you say “WTF THIS ISANT TRUE” it is FC has the highest nite crew in T8

-7:30-10:00 – SF like 0-5, ET 30-40, FC 0-10.

-10:00-1:30 is fairly even. SF still highest but very even.

If i could give SF a little advice about how to gain that extra 50 rating you need to get T7 (not having a go at SF, just letting you know) organise a 30 man crew at 7:30 am US time and you will stop ET’s gain on you and raise your points gap/rating. Everyone on the forums assumes its ET’s nite crew thats helping them, well its not. simple fact is 7-7:30am ET 30+ man golem rushes there BL then FC BL then EB in that order.

I am nite crew and i see this at the end of my shift every day like clockwork 7-7:30 golems from ET’s 30+ men.

NOTE: I am an aussie so my US time conversion may be a little out.

Well, I had a great time tonight! I wore my new glasses as promised, though I was unable to verify if that made the SF crew take pity or not since everything else seemed to be twice as mad. cough Wolves, stalkers, high cliffs… I died from falling twice. You SFers better keep up here, now the whole landscape is apparently trying to gain its own points. Ow ow ow.

I wish we had had more commanders. I think Amzika was by her lonesome, so when she logged off just earlier afaik there was no other blue donut.

I had a great time playing with you SFers! There’s this one dude that is in guild DAD (couldn’t see what it stood for) that killed me once and then I got to kill him when they were sieging one of our thangs. So that was an amusing unexpected personal balance there.

Other than that my main quarrel is it’s hard to see what people look like. Also I had extreme lag at one point, couldn’t see anybody nor was anything playing other than the music. So my death there remains a mystery to me. :O

Screenshots!(Not sure how to make tiny little preview happen: they are pretty big) Underwater dead SF, we were going… somewhere? and ran into two or three of you guys, I think. Paused to admire his nice weapon. http://i.imgur.com/aV8iwVo.jpg

Meh. Imgur is refusing to work for me again. Oh well, hey! One screenshot! Maybe next post there’ll be two.

Kay.5416:

Screenshots!(Not sure how to make tiny little preview happen: they are pretty big) Underwater dead SF, we were going… somewhere? and ran into two or three of you guys, I think. Paused to admire his nice weapon. http://i.imgur.com/aV8iwVo.jpg

You can directly upload here via “More posting options” or something like that, then directly put on an attachment. For example:

Ooooh, really? Let’s try it. Here, screenshots of my death by and the subsequent death of DAD dude.

I totally <3 seeing new folks giving WvW a try and getting super excited about playing WvW. It’s such a breath of fresh air.

-.-

Reading this thread sometimes makes my head hurt. What’s with that?

Let’s get serious, and let’s get a couple things straight… Total server population =/= WvW participation. That said, SF (may have changed I dunno, haven’t looked into it) has a greater server population than FC and ET. How much of a difference? Don’t know, don’t care. SF has more participation than FC and ET, clearly. If every server coordinated a certain time, amassed every single soul on each server, and hit WvW, it’d be a kitten good and a close fight. It’d also be queued, forcing it to be so.

The participation in WvW of SF is CLEARLY, undeniably, inarguably, greater than ET and FC. SF WvW participants opt out of WvW out of boredom, a lack of engaging things to do, and generally just better ways to spend our time. Gearing out chars, leveling alts, all can take away from our time in WvW but in the grand scheme of things gains us a WvW advantage. ET and FC, understandly, opt out (IMHO) primarily through frustration. The very fact both servers experienced the WvW anomaly that is Kaineng is more than enough reason to justify being frustrated as kitten with WvW. After that exhilarating experience they got the joy of the end of free server transfers, which threw another unaccommodated for variable in the WvW pot.

Many on SF now feel obligated to show into WvW to keep our point balance high. Period. We all realize now that in order for us to move out of this tier it has to be unrealistically slanted in our favor for a number of resets. The thing is, due to the Glicko system, what we need to gain in order to advance, ET and FC will need to lose. As far as rating goes, this pushes them further, increasing the incline of the grind the next server that finds itself here needs to go through. There is no excuse or reason for the lack of floor in this tiered WvW system (again, IMHO).

This back and forth outmanned bullkitten is futile and tiring. This isn’t reflective of skill in any sense because every server is only showing in essence a shadow of what its capable of. We get the idea, but not the details.

Time differences happen. Its simply how it is. Each server has had times it’s strong (for instance tonight FC had a great showing when usually I don’t even notice them). Complaints of night capping and stuff… Alright I know it’s frustrating, but in an even match-up, it wouldn’t be such a significant factor. We can all agree, this is not an even match up.

Either we, SF, will have to truly call in the reserves and all of us out there running fractals and such will have to take some weeks away from that to simply stomp on people in WvW. Or, ET and FC will have to simply give WvW to us. Then we will move out in a timely fashion, short of that, we’ll be getting very familiar with each other for quite sometime.

This SIMPLY is just how it is. It should be painfully obvious to anyone in this tier. I don’t see why we need to echo and recycle this back and forth of bullkitten disrespectful arguments week after week. No point whatsoever. People need to realize that.

That said, had fun with omega golems tonight, many good fights.

Unrelated. @Kay, going to use this opportunity to respond to you from your own thread. My main is the ele. Between it and leveling alts I rarely play my thief. The ele is a small human female, dagger/dagger, in Seers looking gear, hairstyle w/ the ribbons. Usually riding the lightning into a middle of group and run combos till I’m either forced to escape or die. I have a very “in your face” style of play, if we face each other I’m sure you’ll notice me between that and the [Shin] tag.

Anyways, look forward to seeing you all out there and hopefully an end to this nonsense in our match up threads.

XxNuggetxX.7823:

Finaly, someone who knows the situation. this is true, if i had to break it down to 24 hour time each day manpower would be USA time:

-1:30-12:30 – SF 500 (que full ect), ET and FC (100-200)

-12:30-7:00 – SF 5-10, ET 5-10 FC 15-20 <— befor you say “WTF THIS ISANT TRUE” it is FC has the highest nite crew in T8

-7:30-10:00 – SF like 0-5, ET 30-40, FC 0-10.

-10:00-1:30 is fairly even. SF still highest but very even.

500? Heh. I’ve only ever had to queue twice on SF, one at a weekly reset, one at a monthly, and only ever for EB.

It’s 166 max in EB. During those times, there was only ever one smaller force (15-40) in one borderlands and no doubt another dozen or so screwing around in the others.

We never come close to 500 on at once. It takes time for maps to flip green; with 500, we’d be running five zergs per map. I seldom see more than one zerg on a BL, and if there are, it’s more like a smaller zerg divided (e.g. 15 and 15).

Come on, ET! You’re missing the Golem party!!

Aquilus.9423:

Come on, ET! You’re missing the Golem party!!

ET is too busy doing somenthing at FC BL… But we’ll keep throwing our 3-man army on your golems like we did on Bay, Garisson…

katz.8376:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Culling is god-awful lately, ever since they issued that last “fix” it has gotten much worse…with that said I always add 5-10 people over what I see. So if you say not more than 35 I surely will take your word…Once I physically see more than 25 tags I assume at least 30-35 people are there.

The point being is that 25-30 people on one map (for the lowest 3 servers) is a fairly substantial number of participants.

if you see an ET zerg, and you count 20 people… culling is probably not lying to you. most of the time we don’t pop orange swords on the map, which means we absolutely positively cannot have more than 25 people in that fight.

just sayin’

Not commenting on ET’s numbers issues anymore (abundance or lack thereof), just gonna enjoy the scoreboard and let people think what they want to think, and pick up my loot bags.

Ungood.3054:

King Amadaeus.8619:

I played on ET, there is no great population difference on SF. I cannot (again, as I have said) really speak to FC with no prior knowledge.

Well. You have not been paying attention then. Maybe it was due to the fact that Orange Swords came up anytime, or what have you, that gave the illusion of having forces.

But, SF vastly outnumbers ET and FC. but maybe, the issue was, that did not mean they always won.

I ate a zerg ball to the face when I took this Screen Shot, as you can see, I was not alone in being stomped.

But even tho, ET was vastly out numbered, that did not mean we lost. Perhaps it is those moments as you reflect back that have distorted what you think you saw, with what was really there.

The top one was after we started to fight back, the bottom one was when they first hit. Reverse order, because something got messed up when I tried to upload them.

1. I know and understand what you are saying but anybody can take a picture of a zerg, like the new guy to ET from Mend said its really about sustained population vs sample of time person X is playing etc. So by your logic if I shot a pic of an ET zerg (which you all claim dont exist) as you PVDOOR (which only SF does) would that be the reality?

2. My thoughts back to my time in ET weren’t/aren’t distorted in the least, what I am drawing on is the same level of frustration I feel lately in SF that I also felt in ET. Which is basically “where are all those people that are in LA”. I know we have the people on SF, just like I knew ET had plenty…Realistcally if you have 50 people per map, thats alot…And on every map thats what, 200 people total on a whole server? Even 30 per map on average would be nice, I am telling you sometimes we have 30 on one map, and 10 if were lucky in EB. Meaning those times where there’s 3 of you in a keep defending it from a 15-20 person group that is just DPSing the door down, while you call for help and realize no one is even on the map. Like I said the FIRST thing I noticed the moment I logged into SF on WvW was “where is all the people I thought they had”.

3. I made a liar out of myself, as I just said earlier I wouldn’t get into debates about this anymore because its obviously a touchy subject. I will say in closing that I find it funny that just challenging the notion that there are 22 comparably populated servers, and 2 others that are VASTLY underpopulated (again WvW wise), has caused people such outrage (Yes I know there was some supposed MASS exodus that only affected these two and none others). Even as I ADMIT that there are times when you guys just leave the map and we wouldn’t even have been able to defend SM at those times (without calling out in LA/Guild etc and hoping we got 20-30 more people) if you had continued your karma train. Even when I say “hey I was on ET, its not like you think it is over here with huge populations”, people basically say I am suffering from a mental condition, or that I was confused when I was on ET…My advice is that if it’s as miserable as it seems then click on that transfer button, and pick one of the other servers with the same population rating yet somehow magically aren’t in T8.

Rant over…See you on the Friday night reset.

XxNuggetxX.7823:

katz.8376:

and d’ya know how we took second place back? we took all your stuff.

i’ll admit. you guys did good friday/saturday. kudos.

but we still took it back. currently ET has better morning coverage than FC, just like SF has better afternoon/evening coverage than either of us.

Finaly, someone who knows the situation. this is true, if i had to break it down to 24 hour time each day manpower would be USA time:

-1:30-12:30 – SF 500 (que full ect), ET and FC (100-200)

For the record I have never had a queue on SF, and I play EB on reset night….I am sure there are queues, just never personally had one…but I used to get them on ET during reset night only and only on EB.

FilthyRat.4652:

Lol… not sure why you guys in ET stopped to fight the grub when you guys outnumbered us out here in EB. But you guys gave us enough time to put out calls for backup, nice job.

Careful bringing proof to a perfectly good debate….