Guild Wars 2

Could it be that the balance of this game just isn’t that good ?

Or is it something else.

LionZero.3479:

Could it be that the balance of this game just isn’t that good ?

Or is it something else.

9/10 of that 3/4 is probably Warrior, so everything is right in the world.

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

LionZero.3479:

Could it be that the balance of this game just isn’t that good ?

Or is it something else.

9/10 of that 3/4 is probably Warrior, so everything is right in the world.

In WvW? For me I definitely see more guardians than warriors.

And to be more fair, I’d say about 70 – 80% in WvW are either guardian or warrior.

A big reason for this is survivability. It’s an important thing to have in wvw. And still laugh when wvw people say warriors r op. Use to be they were the second worse class in most people’s minds

Oh heavens. I don’t doubt that heavies are popular, but making up ratios isn’t useful. You could focus on builds/playstyles that make them popular, though.

With other people also seeming to see a high percentage on war/gaurd in wvwvw, is this something that is concering or is it something that’s acceptable.

Also is this high ratio because there is lack of counterplay and options? or perhaps because war/gaurd performs the best in a big fights where serverlagg is not uncommon either.

He’s right actually maybe even being alittle nice with that 3/4 estimate its prob 4/5

Healing signet and control is the main reason people are running wars, they are heavy duty tank and damage deals with insane mobility, great control and very good condi immunity uptime who don’t even have to worry about hitting the heal button because its always ticking insanely high.

so yeah I’d expect to see alot of them

Senjun.8149:

He’s right actually maybe even being alittle nice with that 3/4 estimate its prob 4/5

Healing signet and control is the main reason people are running wars, they are heavy duty tank and damage deals with insane mobility, great control and very good condi immunity uptime who don’t even have to worry about hitting the heal button because its always ticking insanely high.

so yeah I’d expect to see alot of them

At least until one or more of those aspects are nerfed to the ground by Anet…which it’ll probably be the healing.

Warrior is just too forgiving to play. You can play like idiot in www and still stay alive. Warrior is like old fotm ele, but do more damage, have more armor and hp and doesn’t care kitten about cc and conditions.

Depends I guess. Warriors and Guardians are very good in large scale fights, but on the duelling side it’s dominated by thieves and mesmers. Does that mean the game is broken?

Mizu.9387:

Depends I guess. Warriors and Guardians are very good in large scale fights, but on the duelling side it’s dominated by thieves and mesmers. Does that mean the game is broken?

Yeah I’ve yet to lose to a warrior or guard in a duel, but duels don’t flip towers. That’s when I break out my ninja catas

Mizu.9387:

Depends I guess. Warriors and Guardians are very good in large scale fights, but on the duelling side it’s dominated by thieves and mesmers. Does that mean the game is broken?

you must be out of touch, warrior is very good for dueling.

When they run away, yes

Seeing as how the game has been out for so long and it doesn’t take THAT long to level to 80, people got the memo that you don’t need that much skill to not die being a Warrior/Guard.

They are the best classes for zerg fights. Other classes just don’t have the same capabilities in a zerg fight. Other classes may have something to offer but they are probably better suited to small group fights over a full zerg fight.

I really don’t like it when you people complain about this kind of stuff. The only way to get a full representation in a zerg is to make everyone the same. I don’t care for that.

Evilzara.6378:

Seeing as how the game has been out for so long and it doesn’t take THAT long to level to 80, people got the memo that you don’t need that much skill to not die being a Warrior/Guard.

Are you saying you need “skill” to survive a zerg fight? As any class?
Seriously?

Hey, our keep lord is dead and the enemy is about to cap it! What do we do?! Banner Res!

Hey, even though we outnumber the enemy group 3-1 they’ve downed more than half of us in one push; what do we do?! Banner Res!
Oh no, they downed half of again in the second push, what now?! Another Banner Res!

Yeah, just count the banners and there’s your answer.

I don’t think Guardians are overpowered…and imagine what the game would be like without support Guardians. It’s already bad enough that they are the pretty much the only class capable of putting out solid support/heals in large-scale combat….

Warrior CC is overpowered probably, but again…where are we without it?

Lack of a triad has just led to ‘everybody is DPS’…. the few Elementalists and Guardians trying to run support and the CC Warriors are possibly the only thing keeping WvW combat from becoming a DPS-button-mash-off.

Zosk.5609:

I don’t think Guardians are overpowered…and imagine what the game would be like without support Guardians. It’s already bad enough that they are the pretty much the only class capable of putting out solid support/heals in large-scale combat….

Warrior CC is overpowered probably, but again…where are we without it?

Lack of a triad has just led to ‘everybody is DPS’…. the few Elementalists and Guardians trying to run support and the CC Warriors are possibly the only thing keeping WvW combat from becoming a DPS-button-mash-off.

Why is so much of the utility given to these 2 classes when so many others bring next to nothing of value to a group? Why would you give a class so much CC while at the same time giving them so many way to be immune to it? It’s like ANet went into this game thinking they’d have half as many classes and a month before launch just threw a couple extras out there for shiggles.

look at pve, look at pvp
they keep making changes and adding content that pretty much forces you to play one, otherwise you are up to really fustrating gameplay

i honestly wish, wars and guards would be disabled for a week… so devs suddenly realize how kittened their game is now

Atherakhia.4086:

Warrior, Guardian, Necro, or bust is the name of the game.

Yet Ppl complain about how useless, weak, lacking necromancers are in every part of the game.

Everyone complains is the name of the game.

Valheru Baal.9456:

Atherakhia.4086:

Warrior, Guardian, Necro, or bust is the name of the game.

Yet Ppl complain about how useless, weak, lacking necromancers are in every part of the game.

Everyone complains is the name of the game.

This is true. Personally I feel Warriors and Guardians are very strong in every mode of the game, while Necromancers excel in PvP and WvW due to the condition metas in those modes. I’d prefer if every class could work out as well in all modes like Guardians and Warriors can.

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Hey, our keep lord is dead and the enemy is about to cap it! What do we do?! Banner Res!

Hey, even though we outnumber the enemy group 3-1 they’ve downed more than half of us in one push; what do we do?! Banner Res!
Oh no, they downed half of again in the second push, what now?! Another Banner Res!

Yeah, just count the banners and there’s your answer.

There are other skills from other classes that revive falled allies or NPC’s (keep lord). Necromancer has Signet of Undeath. Elementalist has Glyph of Renewal, Engineer has Toss Elixir R, Ranger has Nature’s Renewal via Spirit of Nature, ect. The Warrior Battle Standard however, is the most obvious and easily recognizable skill of these, specially in a big zerg fight. Now the Battle Standard is on average used more than the others, but its not the only revive skill out there used.

Fallout.1798:

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Hey, our keep lord is dead and the enemy is about to cap it! What do we do?! Banner Res!

Hey, even though we outnumber the enemy group 3-1 they’ve downed more than half of us in one push; what do we do?! Banner Res!
Oh no, they downed half of again in the second push, what now?! Another Banner Res!

Yeah, just count the banners and there’s your answer.

There are other skills from other classes that revive falled allies or NPC’s (keep lord). Necromancer has Signet of Undeath. Elementalist has Glyph of Renewal, Engineer has Toss Elixir R, Ranger has Nature’s Renewal via Spirit of Nature, ect. The Warrior Battle Standard however, is the most obvious and easily recognizable skill of these, specially in a big zerg fight. Now the Battle Standard is on average used more than the others, but its not the only revive skill out there used.

Except those skills are only for downed, not dead, party members/keep lords.

Perhaps the solution is making that banner work only on downed, like other class skills?

Warriors have 2 good elite skills. Battle standard and signet of rage. Battle standard is the more group friendly skill. Signet is nice but it only helps the warrior using it and in group fights, you can typically get buffs that signet is a waste. The other elite skill rampage, sucks. The charr elite is not good either. Can’t speak for other racial skills. Either way, what do you really think you are going to see? We are going to get some use out of that elite skill.

Only difference about that aspect of our elite and other classes ability to raise is we left something behind, the others don’t, at least not anything that I’ve seen.

Yeah, those ratios are not horribly made up or anything -.- I will say, generally, there are alot of guards/warriors in WvW as far as zergs go. The main reason being the CC meta for running in large groups, and the fact that guardians counter it with group stability. Also factor in the guardians do have some of the best group friendly skill sets and of course they are going to be numerous in groups. The issue though, is that its pretty much all we are really good at, and all we are expected to bring.

As far as roaming goes, thieves/engineers/mesmers are pretty high on that food chain and much more numerous compared to roaming guards/wars. Overall though, it really comes down to group play vs solo play, and with the current meta being a CC/Anti CC battle the two groups that can do either very well are going to be more numerous.

Guardians provide support/space control/ stability, but aren’t really known for putting out damage. Warriors have lots of flat mitigation, cc, and damage.

Yes, both classes are versatile and you see a lot of them. However, the other classes all bring great things to the game and we see lots of them too. I think this is a case of forgetting the good and being more fond or remembering the bad. Kit engineers are great support/utility as well as lots of damage; trap rangers are amazing with controlling space; mesmers provide unmatched group mobility; thieves are great for picking off stragglers and scouting.

I really think it comes to the learning curve for characters and what they bring to the table that influences how we perceive their dominance; guardian and warriors being the lowest, whereas a ranger/engi/ele has a much higher learning curve so we don’t see as many perform as consistently well…. This doesn’t mean they aren’t just as OP if played correctly.

Jayne.9251:

Fallout.1798:

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Hey, our keep lord is dead and the enemy is about to cap it! What do we do?! Banner Res!

Hey, even though we outnumber the enemy group 3-1 they’ve downed more than half of us in one push; what do we do?! Banner Res!
Oh no, they downed half of again in the second push, what now?! Another Banner Res!

Yeah, just count the banners and there’s your answer.

There are other skills from other classes that revive falled allies or NPC’s (keep lord). Necromancer has Signet of Undeath. Elementalist has Glyph of Renewal, Engineer has Toss Elixir R, Ranger has Nature’s Renewal via Spirit of Nature, ect. The Warrior Battle Standard however, is the most obvious and easily recognizable skill of these, specially in a big zerg fight. Now the Battle Standard is on average used more than the others, but its not the only revive skill out there used.

Except those skills are only for downed, not dead, party members/keep lords.

Perhaps the solution is making that banner work only on downed, like other class skills?

Ummmm, Battle Standard works in reviving just like the others, only affects Downed players and dead NPCs. It can not affect dead players.

Fallout.1798:

Jayne.9251:

Fallout.1798:

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Hey, our keep lord is dead and the enemy is about to cap it! What do we do?! Banner Res!

Hey, even though we outnumber the enemy group 3-1 they’ve downed more than half of us in one push; what do we do?! Banner Res!
Oh no, they downed half of again in the second push, what now?! Another Banner Res!

Yeah, just count the banners and there’s your answer.

There are other skills from other classes that revive falled allies or NPC’s (keep lord). Necromancer has Signet of Undeath. Elementalist has Glyph of Renewal, Engineer has Toss Elixir R, Ranger has Nature’s Renewal via Spirit of Nature, ect. The Warrior Battle Standard however, is the most obvious and easily recognizable skill of these, specially in a big zerg fight. Now the Battle Standard is on average used more than the others, but its not the only revive skill out there used.

Except those skills are only for downed, not dead, party members/keep lords.

Perhaps the solution is making that banner work only on downed, like other class skills?

Ummmm, Battle Standard works in reviving just like the others, only affects Downed players and dead NPCs. It can not affect dead players.

Yes but the other spells you listed do not rez dead anything, just downed.

Jayne.9251:

Fallout.1798:

Jayne.9251:

Fallout.1798:

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Hey, our keep lord is dead and the enemy is about to cap it! What do we do?! Banner Res!

Hey, even though we outnumber the enemy group 3-1 they’ve downed more than half of us in one push; what do we do?! Banner Res!
Oh no, they downed half of again in the second push, what now?! Another Banner Res!

Yeah, just count the banners and there’s your answer.

There are other skills from other classes that revive falled allies or NPC’s (keep lord). Necromancer has Signet of Undeath. Elementalist has Glyph of Renewal, Engineer has Toss Elixir R, Ranger has Nature’s Renewal via Spirit of Nature, ect. The Warrior Battle Standard however, is the most obvious and easily recognizable skill of these, specially in a big zerg fight. Now the Battle Standard is on average used more than the others, but its not the only revive skill out there used.

Except those skills are only for downed, not dead, party members/keep lords.

Perhaps the solution is making that banner work only on downed, like other class skills?

Ummmm, Battle Standard works in reviving just like the others, only affects Downed players and dead NPCs. It can not affect dead players.

Really? I always thought it revived a dead lord, which is why I thought there was such a fuss over it. I stand corrected

says on wiki it can revive NPCs that’s defeated

Just play the class you want to play, and who you’re most skilled with, besides every class can be useful in some way, despite the how some classes are able to do stuff alot easier.
Stop worrying about the Meta which as true as it is, until they bring some real balance and diversity in mind for wvw, we’ve just got to play as they intend it to be.

As a Thief I don’t know what they have in mind aboutfor our class as they keep moving the goalposts (Mobility, Evasion, Stealth, Support), but I’ll keep playing my Thief as long as I find it a challenge and fun.

Lol you quoted my old post before I reread the other response.

Still, if they made the warrior rev the same as other class spells it would eliminate the fuss over it would it not?

Jayne.9251:

Lol you quoted my old post before I reread the other response.

Still, if they made the warrior rev the same as other class spells it would eliminate the fuss over it would it not?

Several can res the dead npc.

Npc has too stupid of AI though. If it was possible to control where the lord goes instead of it thinking that it can take on the entire enemy zerg, then I wouldn’t mind it not effecting the lord. However, it is stupid and will often go out of it’s room or totally ignore the rest of the zerg on it’s side and try to do it’s own thing so it is too easy for th enemy zerg to kill and camp.

Besides, these battles are fun and if you can’t take the keep, you are doing something wrong because it possible to win such a fight. Get better or die.

Which other ones can rez dead npcs? I have tried on my Mesmer and necro and it doesn’t work

If 4/5 are war/guard, why do I see so many wells?

Jayne.9251:

Which other ones can rez dead npcs? I have tried on my Mesmer and necro and it doesn’t work

Ranger’s Nature Spirit will, if it is within range. And the NPC has to be revive-able in the first place. The random guards like sentries and whatnot will not revive.

- Heavy armors are generally better designed
- Swords, Greatswords, Shields, Hammers… are generally better designed than magical weapons
- Greatswords look bad*ss and people like looking bad*ss
- People just like hitting things with swords
- People like being able to take hits

Silver.3284:

If 4/5 are war/guard, why do I see so many wells?

Because people here play WvW mostly on forum. All classes represented in WvW pretty good.

Rednik.3809:

Silver.3284:

If 4/5 are war/guard, why do I see so many wells?

Because people here play WvW mostly on forum. All classes represented in WvW pretty good.

not true. most of the zergs i come across run heavy armor classes and necros. there will be 1 mesmer for veil,tw and portal (and aside from that there really is nothing) and then 3-4 eles for waterfields/firefields and static. everything else is heavy and necro.

Damage? Check. Survival(both passive and active)? Check. CC? Check. Stability? Check. Mobility? Higher than the bandit class… Check!

Whats not to like about Warriors? Guardians are at least balanced in the sense that if they want to have high passive survival they need to give up some damage, warriors just have all that built right in.

I do not agree with 70-80% of wvw toons being war/guard though, thats ridiculous. In organized zergs I would say it is basically 25% Warrior, 25% guardian, 15% Necro, 35% other. When roaming I would say I see maybe 20% warriors, 15% thieves, 15% rangers, 15% mesmers, 35% others. This is of course my personal experience, and the best numbers my memory can provide.

Warriors are the most numerous because they are easy to learn, and are very powerful. Are they OP? Well, in my opinion, yes. I don’t have anything against the warrior class, but when any class has strengths in damage, survival, mobility, and anti CC’s/conditions, it is going to be OP. Most classes have to give up something to attain either high survival or high damage, I feel that for warriors this is not the case.

9/10 players are terrible at this game.

War/Guard are the easiest classes to play.

If good old bronze league EU the German servers especially Drakkar Lake have loads of Rangers they are everywhere!! It’s quite comical. I use to really struggle against rangers on my Engi but this has improved my play against them no end as I have now had loads of practice.
I mean at least 80% of the players I meat whilst roaming are Rangers.

i think not warr/guard/nec are strong. (btw you need eles and 1-2 mesmers) the others areweak in team play. especialy medium armors.

As individuals, they are not that strong- the problem comes when you pool them together and they share buffs, etc and then add in OP passive healing and cleansing and the problems start to become obvious.

Not quite sure how they can ‘balance’ this without making them weak in other areas of play.

Maybe give Engineers and Necros a new skill/well called ‘stops regen’ where for 3 seconds anyone crossing the warding line has their regen (passive and active, but not foods) stopped for 10 seconds. Obviously would need tweaking but would be a nice way to stop the current melee meta. Might be a bit OP, but if it was just made into a condition it would fall off so quickly as to be useless. Water fields and blasts would still function so healing would still be there for the skilled players.

They are easy classes to play and learn and are immediately effective. I think Guard is far more balanced though. Warriors dont ever have to give up anything like every other class.

I laugh when someone says they are not strong individually. Maybe guards are more balanced but warriors are totally out of control..
Strong roamers and silly in zerg battles.
And since meta is “bunker aoe brainless spam/CCs everywhere” will be worse day by day.
In a game like this one you can’t give OP tools as individual AND in large groups, there should be a trade off, overall if you consider that almost all these classes are bunkers.
Then you consider the bad combo design and you have the zerg issue bunker meta.

I don’t know, my thief makes guardians sad hitting them for 5-6k each backstab. Warriors are a bit of a trouble though I agree, too much mobility to catch up while cloaked but most of them are greedy and rather hit the air than running away from a recently-cloaked thief :P

Valik Shin.9027:

A big reason for this is survivability. It’s an important thing to have in wvw. And still laugh when wvw people say warriors r op. Use to be they were the second worse class in most people’s minds

Why do you laugh? It would be funny if nothing was changed about Warriors and peoples opinion went from “lol bad” to “omfg nerf”. That would be hilarious.

But Warriors have changed. Warriors have received significant buffs, several times.

Guardians were always popular because they are fantastic in WvW. CC, boons, hard to kill, and even damage. A guardian can do it all. There was a time when Guardians could block siege with their shields and reflects. Anyway, Guardian is a profession you can stack.

A mesmer or two is very good for a zerg, mandatory even. But you dont need more then a few. Most professions dont scale up very well the more you stack of them. Warriors and Guardians stack up best, and getting another guardian or warrior over more of another profession is almost always better.

And i agree with the idea that its a problem. There are more Warriors than Engineers and Mesmers combined.

Yeah, a lot of Warrs/Guards are running around, true. But I don’t care, I’m enlisted in another ranks, never gonna change for me

It’s really nice if you down 15 ppl with one ability, no War or Guard can do that