Guild Wars 2

excellent change, need to improve WVW by totally removing mindless farming zergs.

Lady Po Wang Dabang.1394:

excellent change, need to improve WVW by totally removing mindless farming zergs.

Hmm, not sure how this hurts zergs lol. If anything it helps them.
It gives them 30 seconds before you even know they are attacking.

Commence crying now.

What I want to know is how this will affect a single thief coming up to the gates to contest it?

Kronyx.2570:

What I want to know is how this will affect a single thief coming up to the gates to contest it?

The NPC will yell “OP!” and his client will disconnect from the server.

Let’s just remove upgrades from the game, while we’re at it.

Ruprect.7260:

Lady Po Wang Dabang.1394:

excellent change, need to improve WVW by totally removing mindless farming zergs.

Hmm, not sure how this hurts zergs lol. If anything it helps them.
It gives them 30 seconds before you even know they are attacking.

Commence crying now.

Orange swords would still show up if more than 25 are involved.

Each BL and EB has an early warning system that lets you know that attacks are imminent….its called that camp or Sentry that seems to be off color.
Hmm think now would be the time to plant lookouts….

Nabrok.9023:

Ruprect.7260:

Lady Po Wang Dabang.1394:

excellent change, need to improve WVW by totally removing mindless farming zergs.

Hmm, not sure how this hurts zergs lol. If anything it helps them.
It gives them 30 seconds before you even know they are attacking.

Commence crying now.

Orange swords would still show up if more than 25 are involved.

If they’re idiots and attack instead of standing still and watching the rammers.

Nabrok.9023:

Ruprect.7260:

Lady Po Wang Dabang.1394:

excellent change, need to improve WVW by totally removing mindless farming zergs.

Hmm, not sure how this hurts zergs lol. If anything it helps them.
It gives them 30 seconds before you even know they are attacking.

Commence crying now.

Orange swords would still show up if more than 25 are involved.

Right. I guess it depends on how it works, the wording leaves much to the imagination. If you can no longer contest a WP then it benefits defenders and zergs. If it is just 30 seconds before swords and then the WP gets contested then it still would be better for zergs as they have 30 seconds to get there before it gets contested. Most zergs have a scout/sentry.

I can’t see a way this will hurt the zerg at all.

kerona.3465:

Nabrok.9023:

Ruprect.7260:

Lady Po Wang Dabang.1394:

excellent change, need to improve WVW by totally removing mindless farming zergs.

Hmm, not sure how this hurts zergs lol. If anything it helps them.
It gives them 30 seconds before you even know they are attacking.

Commence crying now.

Orange swords would still show up if more than 25 are involved.

If they’re idiots and attack instead of standing still and watching the rammers.

In my experience, there are a lot of idiots.

Nabrok.9023:

kerona.3465:

Nabrok.9023:

Ruprect.7260:

Lady Po Wang Dabang.1394:

excellent change, need to improve WVW by totally removing mindless farming zergs.

Hmm, not sure how this hurts zergs lol. If anything it helps them.
It gives them 30 seconds before you even know they are attacking.

Commence crying now.

Orange swords would still show up if more than 25 are involved.

If they’re idiots and attack instead of standing still and watching the rammers.

In my experience, there are a lot of idiots.

LOL, agreed

They need to couple this with Only Orange Swords can block a WP.

Daemonne.5018:

They need to couple this with Only Orange Swords can block a WP.

That is a truly terrible idea.

saiyr.3071:

Daemonne.5018:

They need to couple this with Only Orange Swords can block a WP.

That is a truly terrible idea.

Because one person door knocking should cause a WP blockage….. While I respect your opinion, no matter how ugly it seems expressed, I don’t agree with it.

Daemonne.5018:

saiyr.3071:

Daemonne.5018:

They need to couple this with Only Orange Swords can block a WP.

That is a truly terrible idea.

Because one person door knocking should cause a WP blockage….. While I respect your opinion, no matter how ugly it seems expressed, I don’t agree with it.

I never said that should be the case. What you are suggesting is that 24 people should never be able to take a keep.

saiyr.3071:

Daemonne.5018:

saiyr.3071:

Daemonne.5018:

They need to couple this with Only Orange Swords can block a WP.

That is a truly terrible idea.

Because one person door knocking should cause a WP blockage….. While I respect your opinion, no matter how ugly it seems expressed, I don’t agree with it.

I never said that should be the case. What you are suggesting is that 24 people should never be able to take a keep.

I’m actually of the mind that Orange swords should never have been increased to 25. 15 – 20 would have been fine.
1 person should not be able to block a waypoint by door knocking.
With the 30 second headstart before swords now (white and orange??) Golem Crews can be in and almost have the Lord down before we’re even notified.

I would like to see some sort of compromise on how long a WP stays active and how many it takes to deactivate it.

Pendragon.8735:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

It should be basic to have a scout at every structure.

If you are not placing a scout in your towers/keeps, you deserve to loose.

No it should not. What tier are you in? If not enough players are currently doing it right now on many servers that pretty much tells you they don’t enjoy it, why should players in a video game be forced to do something not fun and not enjoyable just because it will help them win? That is backwards logic, ‘we do it to win’.

What next, someone is going to come in and say their favorite part of the game is refereshing siege, no really, they prefer there is a time limit on siege so they can refresh it instead of it staying up like it would, and should, if it the game didn’t have to make compromises for server resources.

People refresh siege because it is necessary yes, same reason most act as sentries. But refreshing siege is necessary because server resources demanded that as a concession for the game to run better. While this is purely an arbitrary choice, that doesn’t have to exist, but does despite that it is looked at as a chore rather than enjoyable to most.

If you are not going to have a scout in a structure, you deserve to loose it.

Vash.9183:

Volkon, I’m thinking this update was more focused on the small teams. This way, they can have 30 more seconds before a zerg might notice what they’re doing…

Stop crying.

A small group taking 5 minutes to get a door down will have a 30 second head start.

A large group taking 2 minutes to get a door down will have a 30 second head start.

Who’s being helped here?

No one cares (at least in T1)….they just zerg ball around in circles….taking and leaving right after capture.

CorliCorso.6254:

Vash.9183:

Volkon, I’m thinking this update was more focused on the small teams. This way, they can have 30 more seconds before a zerg might notice what they’re doing…

Stop crying.

A small group taking 5 minutes to get a door down will have a 30 second head start.

A large group taking 2 minutes to get a door down will have a 30 second head start.

Who’s being helped here?

I do small group teams sometimes. No one pops one ram and starts ramming a gate. We always do quick supply runs and build 3-4 rams/catas, then start hitting it at the same time. Reinforce doors are pretty much 30% down in 30 seconds

Hoping for dev response because this is messed up.

I can confirm from testing ingame it works as follows:

Enemy hits gate…waypoint immediately becomes contested unusable.
30 seconds later, white swords appear on keep.

Lifewaster.5912:

I can confirm from testing ingame it works as follows:

Enemy hits gate…waypoint immediately becomes contested unusable.
30 seconds later, white swords appear on keep.

How does this even make sense lol. So you can just watch the WP to see if its contested and then respond.

Lifewaster.5912:

I can confirm from testing ingame it works as follows:

Enemy hits gate…waypoint immediately becomes contested unusable.
30 seconds later, white swords appear on keep.

Ruprect.7260:

Lifewaster.5912:

I can confirm from testing ingame it works as follows:

Enemy hits gate…waypoint immediately becomes contested unusable.
30 seconds later, white swords appear on keep.

How does this even make sense lol. So you can just watch the WP to see if its contested and then respond.

There’s a lot more on a map than waypointed keeps?

Build arrowcarts

Ruprect.7260:

Lifewaster.5912:

I can confirm from testing ingame it works as follows:

Enemy hits gate…waypoint immediately becomes contested unusable.
30 seconds later, white swords appear on keep.

How does this even make sense lol. So you can just watch the WP to see if its contested and then respond.

So building a waypoint shows conested 30 secs earlier? Makes no sense… like the op arrow carts…

Like the song says: smoke weed every day!

Just lost our fully upgraded Stonemist because the enemy team just melted our outer gate, and halfway our inner gate within 30 seconds. We could have easily stopped it. IF we didnt get notified by it by the moment they were at 10% left on the last gate. This idea was rather stupid and just makes it into “who builds the most and fastest siege” I understand this is a way to prevent some servers from getting from being annihilated to having a chance, but for actual balanced fights like my server is having, its hells. Towers and keep flipping left and right without anybody actually knowing.

Being really set off of WvW recently.

But was that stonemist with wp? Then you should have noticed the contested waypoint thingy.

The fact that they keep adding things that making sentrying towers and keeps so important yet they have ZERO REWARD is beyond me. Sure they can sit around building things to get wxp, but the act of sentrying is boring and gives no reward. A step the WRONG direction anet.

So apparently “megazergs” can be at your inner/already taken the tower in under 30 seconds. If they have that many people, what are the chances of being able to actually get enough people INTO the keep/tower to fight them off, in less than 30 seconds anyway? Sounds like if they are that strong, they are going to take it down regardless.

If the other server has such a massive zerg running around, why wouldn’t you have people scouting it. Not sitting in towers, but tailing the zerg as it runs around/ watching the map for where it hit last, and sending scouts to towers which are likely to be next?

Not saying the update is awesome or anything, but just something to think about.

Maybe if they made it so that if you had under 5 or 10 people attacking, It would take 30 seconds, but more than that would act as it does now. Would give smaller teams an advantage that larger teams don’t have.

But then zergs could do what they have always done and just have a few people take out the guards and set up 5 rams/golems while the zerg waits.

Or maybe it would encourage servers to break up their members into teams and have them spread across the map in teams of 5 or 10 (depending on the number if they implemented) which is what it seems like people want. But then there would be screaming about how the other server is taking every single last camp/tower in 1 go. And it would be even harder to defend.

So really this update I suppose was pointless, and any variation is bad too. Because whatever you do that can advantage a smaller group attacking a keep or tower a zerg can take advantage of too just by having people sit back and watch a bunch of golems or rams go at the door.

It seems like all they were trying to change though was the door tagging that occurs. Although I don’t see what the big issue is with door tagging. If you can get a bunch of people to run around, tagging keeps and towers and camps, just to mess with the other server, making them spread out to scout out the white swords, I really don’t see the issue. Sure it can be annoying, but it sounds to me like it should be a legit tactic.

But yeah, nothing constructive really in this post. Just a wall of text with a few things to think about.

kerona.3465:

By the time you way point in after seeing swords, they’re already on the inner. Outers are always forfeit now.

This literally just happened to me before patch. I tagged South Gate WK. 30 Seconds later swords went up. 15 seconds later, their scout came to find me. I waved at him, and tagged the gate again. I laughed in map chat. IN THE TIME IT TOOK for this poor guy to run to south gate from north, our commander sup rammed down the north gate and went through to inner. By the time I tagged the gate the second time, they were in the lords room.

Whoever made this change clearly does not play the game.

This post makes no sense. You could already do this exact thing before the update. Have someone attack south gate while the commander sits around the corner hiding. The scout finds you at the south gate tagging the door, while he is distracted by you, the commander moves in and takes down the north gate. The 30 second timer for this has literally nothing to do with what you just described. Unless I completely missed something, in which case, PLEASE point it out.

Jake.1842:

So apparently “megazergs” can be at your inner/already taken the tower in under 30 seconds. If they have that many people, what are the chances of being able to actually get enough people INTO the keep/tower to fight them off, in less than 30 seconds anyway? Sounds like if they are that strong, they are going to take it down regardless.

This tells me you’ve never played in Tier 1

Jake.1842:

If the other server has such a massive zerg running around, why wouldn’t you have people scouting it. Not sitting in towers, but tailing the zerg as it runs around/ watching the map for where it hit last, and sending scouts to towers which are likely to be next?

This tells me you’ve never trailed an enemy zerg (who have constant swiftness uptime btw) and had them WP away to an unknown location (maybe even on another BL) where you can’t follow.

I am an avid scout for my server I constantly check keeps/towers/camps and I think this new 30 second thing is completely stupid. Even having a scout in every keep and tower won’t stop a highly organized group with 6 golems and timewarps/portals. You would have to be extremely close by to even stand a chance. For example tonight my group was on an enemy border, I checked all the maps as I usually do to see if waypoints are contested on our keeps nothing contested, check again 5 minutes later none contested, as I go to come off my map our home garrison waypoint becomes contested. I immediately port and run to garrison, around 15 seconds after porting I was in the lord room, Watergate and inner gate are down plus they’re capping so to sum it up 45 seconds and they are capping our garrison due to this timer (my server has very low night coverage). still think the timer is a good idea? wait till your garrison/hills/bay is gone before you can even get to it then come back and say its ‘a good change’…….

As a extremely active commander on JQ, I find it a bit funny this is coming from another JQ guy. We normally already have people watching towers/gate (water gate on jqbl for example) all the time already so im not sure what this will change except it will give us a chance to way point even after they set up siege.

if anything this is really going to make it harder to zerg places because of the response times due to the way points. Oh and I have spent countless times when i need to eat or take a break watching a area. I wouldn’t dare ask some one to do something I was not willing or able to do my self before. Stop crying about stuff you should already be doing in tier 1.

The WP auto contests when tagged but the white swords don’t trigger on the keep for 30seconds. I.e the Keep wp is useless once its tagged.

Nuked.2360:

The WP auto contests when tagged but the white swords don’t trigger on the keep for 30seconds. I.e the Keep wp is useless once its tagged.

so pretty much we will still have the same response times for keeps as normal due to way point. hmm yea still not worth crying over.

Vel.1653:

Nuked.2360:

The WP auto contests when tagged but the white swords don’t trigger on the keep for 30seconds. I.e the Keep wp is useless once its tagged.

so pretty much we will still have the same response times for keeps as normal due to way point. hmm yea still not worth crying over.

Yea it pretty much just makes scouting even more important you can’t just rely on them because 30seconds of anything with golems on it the gate is either almost down or down.

If Anet had actually cared to explain their reasoning behind alot of their very questionable decisions, most of us probably wouldn’t be here wondering about their intelligence level.

Nuked.2360:

The WP auto contests when tagged but the white swords don’t trigger on the keep for 30seconds. I.e the Keep wp is useless once its tagged.

I haven’t been in WvW yet, but my guildmates tell that this is not the case and that they can use the waypoint for those 30 seconds.

Meaning that every 3 minutes they get a free 30 seconds to port in.

yup this promotes zergs to be even more powerful as they were before. what is wrong with Anet. u nerfed 2 classes so they both are forced to use the very little builds that are left, te whole arrowcart thing is a disaster and now this?why dont u make a testserver to see if those changes are even worth it? how can u guys not see that wvw changes shouldt be equal to spvp changes?how is a 50 percent confusion nerf even justified?arent u aware that u are destroying a ton of builds and now the classes are even less balanced than before.

Jake.1842:

This post makes no sense. You could already do this exact thing before the update. Have someone attack south gate while the commander sits around the corner hiding. The scout finds you at the south gate tagging the door, while he is distracted by you, the commander moves in and takes down the north gate. The 30 second timer for this has literally nothing to do with what you just described. Unless I completely missed something, in which case, PLEASE point it out.

The 30 second timer has everything to do with what I described. 30 seconds + 15 seconds for him to respond to me tapping the south gate is a huge addition to the time margin. Before the patch, he could have made 2 laps around the keep in that same time, caught the real attack in action, and called for reinforcements. Your tier must have some truly terrible scouts if they don’t thoroughly and repeatedly check doors and cata spots, as you seem to be implying. The fact is that it takes less than a minute to melt a gate with several golems or superior rams. 45 seconds required to check ONLY the south gate of a keep up from 15 is ridiculous. This guy had no chance of catching the north gate if he responded to the south gate at all because of the flat increase in response time.

If you can’t understand this, I suggest you go and actually PLAY the game. This is just a keep I’m talking about. Towers and camps are insta flipped now. Camps, especially so, because even with a 5 man roaming group, the capture circle is halfway full before it even goes contested. People are losing fully upgraded crap left and right because there is not a scout at every gate. The increase in reporting time is critical and highly detrimental to defense of any sort. Basically all we can do is AC up inner keeps like hell and wait for ANet to fix this.

Hmm… Somehow, I feel it should be the other way round

When your gates get tagged, your Tower/Keep/Castle will show it being contested. But your waypoint will only get blocked after 30 seconds

Then again, what was the purpose of introducing this 30 seconds? Is it to help attackers or defenders?

Nabrok.9023:

Nuked.2360:

The WP auto contests when tagged but the white swords don’t trigger on the keep for 30seconds. I.e the Keep wp is useless once its tagged.

I haven’t been in WvW yet, but my guildmates tell that this is not the case and that they can use the waypoint for those 30 seconds.

Meaning that every 3 minutes they get a free 30 seconds to port in.

I was dealing with it earlier today it contested the wp 30seconds before white swords showed up.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If you are not going to have a scout in a structure, you deserve to loose it.

That’s irrelevant to the discussion of if the alert system is bad design or not.

Oceangrave.9657:

Just lost our fully upgraded Stonemist because the enemy team just melted our outer gate, and halfway our inner gate within 30 seconds. We could have easily stopped it. IF we didnt get notified by it by the moment they were at 10% left on the last gate. This idea was rather stupid and just makes it into “who builds the most and fastest siege”.

And to build the fastest and most siege, you need the biggest zerg possible, to take advantage of as much damage as you can in that 30 second window. The quest for bigger and bigger zergballs and more farming WXP continues unabated.

There is also a flip side to this issue. Consider a long drawn out fight where people can respond and get to keep to defend. After 3min the garrison will uncontest for 30seconds leaving ample time for anyone to port out grab supply and port back. This just happened to us as we spent 3 hours trebbing to no avail at bay. So this is also a powerful defensive tool as long as you scout.

Look. 30 seconds + travel time from citadel to East Keep EXCEEDS the typical rush attack time. So even if you have a sentry, you can’t bring reinforcements in before the gate falls. Sentries are actually irrelevant. And even if the reinforcements come (promptly! which they won’t), they still have to get through the portal. If the enemy zerg is at the north gate, that’s a problem. As a focus ele, I can abuse swiftness and stoneskin to usually get inside if they aren’t on the stairs. Most classes can’t get in at all.

The only way to hold the outer keep is to already have siege built with AC specialists already on the gate(s). A lot of people are saying that yes, you should station people 24/7. I don’t know what it’s like in T1-2, but in T3 and below you may be facing an enemy that can’t field a zerg to all 4 zones, or even 1 zone. What actually happens is you sit in a keep/tower defending against an enemy who MIGHT. NOT. EVEN. BE. ON. THE. MAP. For hours at a time. Or, maybe they just pulled everybody from all 4 zones to make 40 man zerg to crush everything. Somebody above said the thought of imminent attack is exciting. It’s not exciting, in the tiers I play, because most of the time, THERES NO KITTEN PEOPLE ON THE MAP. Or maybe there’s a 40 man zerg coming your way.

This is really the last straw. I’m going to wait and see how this patch turns out, and until then, I’m playing Planetside 2. At least I can find a fight on demand, there.

Edit: add signature.

mmmm I"m actually ok with this one … Works both ways .. WAY (1) “Come on Guys , we have exactly 30 seconds to breach this perimeter before we are seen…Let’s move People….” Way (2) “ kitten are you kidding me .. How did we just lose that tower . just capped it 4 mins ago”. either way it sums up everyone one here .. I guess the real question is .. Are u dedicated enough to stand that post an sentry that tower while you army is pushing ahead or not?

Brow.9425:

What actually happens is you sit in a keep/tower defending against an enemy who MIGHT. NOT. EVEN. BE. ON. THE. MAP. For hours at a time.

Exactly. Many don’t seem to grasp the population disparity in tiers. This may work fine for reset time, 3-4 hours of primetime each night for a server, or all the time in T1 or T2, because there are multiple zergs on a map, and sentry duty is likely to payoff, you will see action eventually and help your team.

But lower down its just doing nothing. Outside of prime hours the majority of time in these tiers there is maybe at best one small team on the map from each server. But sometimes none. Maps can sit one same color, or even shared, for an hour or two with no major attacks, just single party’s hitting camps here and there, solo’ers, or maybe a small group getting Breakout started, then melting away. There is nothing to defend, you are not going to get 10-15 people out of your 25 on the whole map to just be sitting around doing nothing, and shouldn’t have to. Then 2 hours later an opponent ports on to the map with all their non-EB forces, maybe 30 people and they hit at a random location, and you are supposed to have had 15 people sitting for those 2 hours at every structure…. riiiight. It’s terrible design.

If the direction WvW is going continues, it won’t take but the next game out that has any more lively RvR mechanics to get people to bolt in droves from this zerg friendly, wxp train style of gameplay.