Guild Wars 2

So, I have 3900 armor, I have sacrificed a lot of damage to get this, but what the hell is the point, I was under the illusion that armor meant mitigation of damage?! like hell it is, it makes little to no difference; you are still hit for 7k+ conditions still kitten you no matter how many times you remove them since they can be put on faster than can be removed, then you have the confusion spamming kitten that will outright kill you almost instantly if you miss the fact that it was stacked to 16+ in 1 second.

Why bother with Armor/toughness, it seems the only viable defence is stealth, immune utilities and high damage.

stop focusing on the condition statement, what is kitten ing me off is the 7k crits when near 4000 armor, it shouldn’t happen.

If you give up all attack for defence, defence is what you should get.

GW2 = zerker or nothing.

Toughness, healing are by and large worthless stats.

Vitality useful upto a point.

Have you ever seen the devs play GW2? They die once every 2-3 mins, that’s how your mean’t to play apparently, death doesn’t matter, therefore defense doesn’t matter.

Hidden thief QQ?

Well Anet does not want tanks in the game. That’s the shortest answer I guess.

Get the leech gear off and maybe you will kill some people

OMG, I am crying right now ;.-D

I ran 3000 armor and 2k toughness 30k hp as a warrior and do 6k hammerstun critical learn to kitten dodge never ever die:)

Sounds to me you need Melandru runes and Pots of Lemongrass poultry soup…

I use lemongrass, melandru, zerker stance and cleansing ire, it helps but its no counter

Umm its the same concept as if you stacked all kinds of crazy Power and no Precision…Or all kinds of Precision and no Crit Dmg….

Meaning, that you need to find a balance between armor and vitality.

Armor is protection against burst, vitality will help you survive conditions.

No counter to what?
If you die in any 1v1 encounter on your warrior without the ability to get away this is already dismantled as a serious l2p issue.

Seriously, we are talking about warrior. You dont just play warrior and die. That is not how warriors work these days.

Ah, before I forget: l2p.

did I even say anything about dying, this whole topic is directed at the worthlessness of armor

Conditions are only way how to defeat super tanky guardians and warriors now.Every naab plays now super deffensive builds in wvw and every naab plays warrior and guardian now.Im playing necro 10+ months ,im running lot of gears and builds and my all power builds are 100% useless against these deffensive guardians and warriors,they are almost immortal if you have power build against them.But,when i have condition damage gear/build,its not hard defeat them,only best players can stand against it,naabs are going down fast.So,i think yes,conditions are very strong,maybe too much strong but if conditions will be nerfed,these tanky warriors and guardians must be nerfed too,or they will be almost immortal.

Direwind.8409:

did I even say anything about dying, this whole topic is directed at the worthlessness of armor

There becomes a point with any trait, that you start to get some type of diminishing returns. Maybe not actually, but I mean to say: is it worth having 3900 armor vs having 3000 armor?

Probably not, which would free up some potential for you to stack something else a bit.

2750 armour provides 33.33% direct damage mitigation, a lot of people consider it a waste taking toughness higher than that.

But protection buff does that too reduces damage by 33.33%, my ele uses 2 armour of earths (1 utility, 1 traited) instead of bothering with toughness. Rarely dies and once went straight through a 100 strong zerg (on her own) and survived.

Meglobob.8620:

2750 armour provides 33.33% direct damage mitigation, a lot of people consider it a waste taking toughness higher than that.

But protection buff does that too reduces damage by 33.33%, my ele uses 2 armour of earths (1 utility, 1 traited) instead of bothering with toughness. Rarely dies and once went straight through a 100 strong zerg (on her own) and survived.

Agreed I have re-tooled most of my toons to hover around 2800, like you said the difference is really negligible over that.

Armor doesn’t help at all against conditions and that is how it should be. Logically if you bleed or are poisoned the armor won’t help with that. But even if you have 3900, a full glass thief, fully traited, optimal damage runes, bloodlust stack and everything can crit hit you 13k+ with one backstab. Warrior’s killshot and eviscerate can also hit as hard. I have said this many times: this game has too much burst damage. And unfortunately Arenanet plans to add even more offensive stat in the form of BL bloodlust (and later with ascended armor).

But I also agree with the [Buka] guy. Warrior is currently very powerful in every aspect of the game. Warrior was always good in pve and melee train zergs, but now it is also good in spvp and as a solo roamer and small scale in WvWvW. There are several viable warrior builds for WvWvW and you can find or ask them in the warrior subforum. You can be pretty tanky and still have good damage, hard control and very high mobility. Warrior has access to many of the best condition mitigation and removal tools of the game. I would even argue that condition necromancer’s worst nightmare is such warrior (signet of stamina, cleansing ire, traited warhorn, dogged march and so on). You also have so high health pool that rarely ever get bursted down immediately without given chance to react or flee. It is a learn to play issue. After all the recent buffs to warrior, you should rarely ever lose 1 vs 1 now.

Learn2read perhaps? Toughness and Armour do NOTHING to conditions. Its only been a year boyo, congrats for knowing the game…. lul

A thief dealing 7k damage to you with 3900 armor should probably die if you look at him funny.

I think this is a get good issue, to put it bluntly.

Actually that is not true Writetyper. You can deal >10k while having 16k hp (17k at end of the week) and 2850 armor. Keytrait is “hidden killer”.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAoYlUmiO3eS+E/5Ey2jdqCJKuHJlT1UdFwKA-j0xA4/ASUApCApvioxWcLiGr2GTFTEVLFQELjA-w

A more offensive one that does not need hidden killer but deals insane backstabs below 50% would be with assassin gear and Executioner, getting 20% more damage. 20k Backstabs possible and way more. Here you sure are a true glascannon, but you hit like the biggest truck on earth:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAoYlUmiO3eS+E/5Ey2jdqCJKuHJlT1UdFwKA-j0xA4/ASUApCApvioxWcLiGr2GTFTEVLFQELjA-w

60% more to your backstabs if target under 50%, you are over 90%, you have over 6 initiative and hit from behind.

These two builds are one trick ponies, but they do their job. They oneshot people.

Zumy.6318:

Actually that is not true Writetyper. You can double that damage while having 16k hp (17k at end of the week) and 2850 armor. Keytrait is “hidden killer”.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAoYlUmiO3eS+E/5Ey2jdqCJKuHJlT1UdFwKA-j0xA4/ASUApCApvioxWcLiGr2GTFTEVLFQELjA-w

So it’s a gimmick thief build that relies on food and imba WvW stats to do kitten all damage except when backstabbing? Like literally the only damage it’s doing is backstab and kitten y non-crit autos? Why not: avoid getting backstabbed, kill him when he comes in for a backstab, have aegis/blocks up, or just kittening kill him with conditions. Or, abuse food buffs yourself.

Whatevery you say mate, whatever you say. I guess the 3900 armor were in tPvP without any food.
Abuse food, hilarius.

Blix.8021:

Show us on the doll where the mean thief touched you.

Too funny…but don’t get me started on the near perm invis, one hit one kill back stabbing thieves…I hates them.

As others have pointed out, toughness has zip to do with conditions. As for the “big hits”… caution math ahead:

((Weapon strength * Skill coefficient * Power) * (Multipliers)) / Armor

((806 * 2.4 * 3000) * 3.50) / 3900 = 5208

In this case we are going with 100% on crit damage plus the base 150% and another 100% from the weapon sigil, traits, etc. Stacked on a character with 3000 power and hitting from behind. Basically a REALLY glassy thief with a perfect hit.

To get to 7k the thief would need to have near 4k power (wow), you were debuf’d when it happened or it was a warrior with a perfect Kill Shot.

Yea right. I have 3500 armor on my warrior in sPvP with healing signet, adrenal health, and banner regen. And it’s pretty much impossible to die vs power builds 1v1. Dagger thief does a neglible amount of damage that I don’t even notice.

I love d/d/ thieves, especially ones that run no condi dmg, they are free kills 90% of the time.

Most of the kills I get while on my thief are with S/D, very underrated set imo.

Armor is useful to a point but it suffers as all stats do by soft-capping. When budgetting stats all stats have to have their worth compared to one another. When you load up too heavily on one you find your other stats lacking for the minimal gains you have gotten by loading up one stat. For example; a thief who goes full glass can hit harder than a truck but many attacking classes can sweep away 60-70% of their hp very quickly. A mix of defensive traits and gearing while maintaining predetermined offensive thresholds is key. In general i think of how much damage i need to do for my role, how that translates into abilities, utilities, traits, and stats, and then everything i can spare goes to defense.

3900 armor is beyond excessive. Exam your rate of condition clearance, how much vitality you have, what your offensive capabilities, and beyond all of this what role your profession can fill and how to fill it. Taking a measured look at your play will enable you to craft a better build with fewer deficiencies. Remember though there is no omni-build. You will always be weak to something, and sometimes you will just die because of how you have built.

Armor is useful to a point but it suffers as all stats do by soft-capping. When budgetting stats all stats have to have their worth compared to one another. When you load up too heavily on one you find your other stats lacking for the minimal gains you have gotten by loading up one stat. For example; a thief who goes full glass can hit harder than a truck but many attacking classes can sweep away 60-70% of their hp very quickly. A mix of defensive traits and gearing while maintaining predetermined offensive thresholds is key. In general i think of how much damage i need to do for my role, how that translates into abilities, utilities, traits, and stats, and then everything i can spare goes to defense.

3900 armor is beyond excessive. Examine your rate of condition clearance, how much vitality you have, what your offensive capabilities, and beyond all of this what role your profession can fill and how to fill it. Taking a measured look at your play will enable you to craft a better build with fewer deficiencies. Remember though there is no omni-build. You will always be weak to something, and sometimes you will just die because of how you have built.

I… rofl’ed.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Meglobob.8620:

2750 armour provides 33.33% direct damage mitigation, a lot of people consider it a waste taking toughness higher than that.

But protection buff does that too reduces damage by 33.33%, my ele uses 2 armour of earths (1 utility, 1 traited) instead of bothering with toughness. Rarely dies and once went straight through a 100 strong zerg (on her own) and survived.

Agreed I have re-tooled most of my toons to hover around 2800, like you said the difference is really negligible over that.

Yes, but the point I think he’s trying to make is that Armor is a direct negation to power based on the forumula…. and what “we’re” finding is that it’s not the case.

The fact that a zerker thief/mesmer/ele/warrior can still basically kill you in 1-2 combo’s even w/ such high Armor.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

EDIT: To the OP – ARmor alone isn’t going to do it. the Damage aspect has too many multiples. You need to make sure your targets have Weakness and Chill and that you have Protection, in order to get on even playing grounds.

What you got to realise is in this game going purely tank, healer or DPS just does not work as effictive as balancing your stats. You got to have some condi cleanse, you need tobe able to dmg and crit well while still be able to take hits.

Sure theres builds for group play or dueling and they are very effictive at what they are built for but of course they’ll have their flaws. Dont expect to roll with a zerg build and be able to defeat a dueler in 1v1, in this case, a thief.

Point is in GW2 there is no holy trinity and I like this because it requires the player to be skillful and make them be creative with their build.

shhh, don’t tell him about melandru runes and lemongrass food. Or else we will have a 3.9k armor, condition immune monster running rampant in the wvw fields.

Amins.3710:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Meglobob.8620:

2750 armour provides 33.33% direct damage mitigation, a lot of people consider it a waste taking toughness higher than that.

But protection buff does that too reduces damage by 33.33%, my ele uses 2 armour of earths (1 utility, 1 traited) instead of bothering with toughness. Rarely dies and once went straight through a 100 strong zerg (on her own) and survived.

Agreed I have re-tooled most of my toons to hover around 2800, like you said the difference is really negligible over that.

Yes, but the point I think he’s trying to make is that Armor is a direct negation to power based on the forumula…. and what “we’re” finding is that it’s not the case.

The fact that a zerker thief/mesmer/ele/warrior can still basically kill you in 1-2 combo’s even w/ such high Armor.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

I understood exactly what he was saying, hence why I agreed with him…The point is that it really isn’t worth stacking 2-300 or more into a stat line that may only give you 8-9% more Damage Reduction.

The point I agreed with him on is that at a certain point the reduction is “splitting hairs”, and those stats could be of much better use in another stat-tree.

While you are able to get 4000 armor, it’s possible to stack might and sustain a short duration of 4500 attack. Someone with 2300 will get nailed for 12k or more damage, so you are still better off with more toughness.

Toughness does matter, but having all toughness and no HP is meaningless. All graphs for toughness-vitality min/max for highest effective HP is a ratio of it (and usually skewed well into favoring much more vit than toughenss), not just one or the other.

So you stacked armor to pointless levels and were countered anyway by conditions. GG.

Condition damage ignores armor but if you think armor is useless you’re bad. If you think armor is the only important defense stat, just as bad.

ryokoalways.3450:

Toughness does matter, but having all toughness and no HP is meaningless. All graphs for toughness-vitality min/max for highest effective HP is a ratio of it (and usually skewed well into favoring much more vit than toughenss), not just one or the other.

Heavy healing builds would mostly disagree. Toughness scales with healing vit doesn’t. While most bunkers do prefer both, plenty of healing builds can perform very well without a drop of extra vit.

Boon duration healing shout warrior FTW

Maybe there is no point to gimping your build by goin all in on one stat.

this can work on pve environment but i dont think it would work in pvp as most players are completely unpredictable and have diverse motives.

Meglobob.8620:

GW2 = zerker or nothing.

Toughness, healing are by and large worthless stats.

Vitality useful upto a point.

Have you ever seen the devs play GW2? They die once every 2-3 mins, that’s how your mean’t to play apparently, death doesn’t matter, therefore defense doesn’t matter.

Oo I love when I come across 1v1 a person in all zerkers gear..they melt like butter in a phoenix sun So yes, please, run zerker, free badges! The only except MAY be thiefs since they can escape.

The best bet is to balance both. Right now on my mesmer I run prec/tough/cond armor with sentinel accessories. This gives me ~21k health, but I still sit around ~30% crit chance, with decent toughness. If you stack all in one skill (ESPECIALLY toughness) that will happen. If you’re going to stack something to be “tanky”, stack vit. It’s much more helpful than toughness, especially since conditions seem to be the new meta.

If I meet an enemy, who takes not mut dmg, but doesn’t put me under any preasure, then I can hack away on that guy without a 2nd thought. Guess, who comes out ahead here… 3600 armor doesn’t help here buddy.

Full tank build doesn’t usually help much in wvw except for something like holding a point from capping

Vitality > Toughness, thats what most of every one is saying, and it is true. Condi spamm rules in GW2 atm, so this makes maximizing Armor nearly useless, this is why I do not play my Guardian anymore.

Toughness and armor needs to do a lot more against non condition attacks than it currently does. A heavy armor user with over 3k armor should NEVER get hit for 6k plus.

Light armor and street cloths should give 0% additional damage reduction.
Medium Armor %10
Heavy Armor %35

That is to start with additional changes to boost armor may be needed.

Any one with over 3.5k armor does not get hit for over 6k period.

It is condition spamz that armor has no affect on, low HP classes should be given the best conditon removals in the game, high HP classes should be given the lesser ones. Give guardians better condi removal, some that will not take up slots/traits for our build, as it is now, we can not keep up with the condi spamz and deal decent dmg, unlike necros.

Littlefeather.8623:

Any one with over 3.5k armor does not get hit for over 6k period.

It is condition spamz that armor has no affect on, low HP classes should be given the best conditon removals in the game, high HP classes should be given the lesser ones. Give guardians better condi removal, some that will not take up slots/traits for our build, as it is now, we can not keep up with the condi spamz and deal decent dmg, unlike necros.

I have over that and get hit for 7k quite a bit. I have 0 problems with condition, runes food and ability’s take care of that.

I have over that and get hit for 7k quite a bit. I have 0 problems with condition, runes food and ability’s take care of that.

I call BS, you must be a Necro…

I have 3.5k And thieves melt infront of my GS, so yea BS.

ANd to defend condi’s? yea you must be a necro…

Littlefeather.8623:

Any one with over 3.5k armor does not get hit for over 6k period.

It is condition spamz that armor has no affect on, low HP classes should be given the best conditon removals in the game, high HP classes should be given the lesser ones. Give guardians better condi removal, some that will not take up slots/traits for our build, as it is now, we can not keep up with the condi spamz and deal decent dmg, unlike necros.

Way wrong.. On my warrior with 3800 armor another warrior evisc me for 9k two different times, with no vuln on me.