Guild Wars 2

People of Deso no worries…..it is not great too see so many people resting and having a break during the 1ste week we made number 1 but i wanna see when everyone is back with a fresh breath and some good additude how we fight……we manage to come so far…..we might fall down a Tier(bad case scenario) but we will come bk…..yes we need to give some pugs better guidance but that would not be a problem when all are back…..dont let other servers put us down we worked hard to come this way and not only pvd style…..I am Felerina Dalure from FG and what i have seen this server can last for a long time…..just dont put your heads down becuz they said we fail this week…mabye we fail next week it is possible but we came from T4 to T1 we accomplished so much. Everyone take your rest its oke i understand BT wanna fight they reach T1 and they came aswel like Deso from far….so i hope they understand this situation…..i also understand VS and their focus on us we killed them last week with Arbor at the same time this is their chance to payback hahaha i would do the same. But nevertheless this is just the beginning BT and this will not end within a week T1 gonna be fun soon there is also the upcoming patch and we know Deso got alot of PVE’ers. Just enjoy your 1ste place cuz we surely did VS and Arbor was beaten down by us dont care the reasons (that they also had people taking a break) like BT will win this week….it is a fact. We all want epic fights and we will get it……..give it time people from all servers we will get them alot.
One thing for BT ……i like your style of play with switching and good turtle portals……same for VS they do this also alot……this is T1 and we all have the right and reputation to be in this Tier…….dont let this couple of weeks makes it any less then it is.
Be well everyone and Salute to all servers.

Edit: BT got 1 guild that need more focus then any other guild i saw in my life and that is RG but still my guild kitten you a few times with portalbombs hehe but kitten never had it tougher then against you guyz (i know your weakspot)hehe…..VS also good but i never had 1 guild that caught my eyes …..still gj so far all.

MagnusLL.8473:

And without morning Russians BT is no T1 material.

That’s not true, and I don’t know why people constantly try to belittle other servers just to prove their (wrong) points.

Blacktide was having a point lead almost the entire time. And I’m not talking just about this match, I’m talking about last match as well.

Really tired of all the comments: “we would beat you if you didnt have nightshift/ morningshift / afternoonshift / eveningshift”. It’s like people refuse to accept they are playing WvW and not sPvP tournament. Choosing when to fight and when not to, is a part of strategy, and servers better at strategy win. Vizunah understood that a long time ago which is why they formed a good night shift. RUIN understood that also.

Let me repeat one more time: with the way the current system is setup, final scoring is directly proportional to the number of man hours a server can put into the match.

No it’s not.

Servers at the top have better players on average. That’s because better players gravitate towards the competitive positions.

PS: Easy way to refute what you said is being online at server reset. All servers have maxed capacity in WvW (full maps). If your theory was true, every server would have the same amount of points every hour, for as long as all maps are full. This is never the case.

lepri.6504:

The server claims to have better skilled players is the one who need ego nerf. Good players are everywhere

No they’re not. Good players are in good guilds and/or in competitive environment.
Exceptions don’t refute that.

Ianervan.3415:

MagnusLL.8473:

And without morning Russians BT is no T1 material.

That’s not true, and I don’t know why people constantly try to belittle other servers just to prove their (wrong) points.

Blacktide was having a point lead almost the entire time. And I’m not talking just about this match, I’m talking about last match as well.

Really tired of all the comments: “we would beat you if you didnt have nightshift/ morningshift / afternoonshift / eveningshift”. It’s like people refuse to accept they are playing WvW and not sPvP tournament. Choosing when to fight and when not to, is a part of strategy, and servers better at strategy win. Vizunah understood that a long time ago which is why they formed a good night shift. RUIN understood that also.

Let me repeat one more time: with the way the current system is setup, final scoring is directly proportional to the number of man hours a server can put into the match.

No it’s not.

Servers at the top have better players on average. That’s because better players gravitate towards the competitive positions.

PS: Easy way to refute what you said is being online at server reset. All servers have maxed capacity in WvW (full maps). If your theory was true, every server would have the same amount of points every hour, for as long as all maps are full. This is never the case.

lepri.6504:

The server claims to have better skilled players is the one who need ego nerf. Good players are everywhere

No they’re not. Good players are in good guilds and/or in competitive environment.
Exceptions don’t refute that.

You can argue till infinit that you lead all day that becouse BT earli morning shift leaves all stuff what you guys own fully upgraded which require very big effort to capture and requires high amount of players unless is captured at an hour when the keep or tower is undermanned from there you get all day loong lead on points.

We know that from far that BT is better organised than deso so there is no question there , i saw many post from BT players who posted about that we asked fro that BT to come up in T1 and BT players got dissapointed by us im sorry to hear that , but one thing is clear BT is better than any of Arborston and Vizuna Square , if we go down we go down that’s it , that’s how the game it works and that will not be the first time

I didn’t wanted to post but just could not hold my self , to many naming , flaming , shaming in this thread at the thread OP don’t know why did you even bother to create this thread to flame or ?

Ianervan.3415:

PS: Easy way to refute what you said is being online at server reset. All servers have maxed capacity in WvW (full maps). If your theory was true, every server would have the same amount of points every hour, for as long as all maps are full. This is never the case.

Uhmmm….

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/15

Essentially identical points until 5AM CET when people went to sleep.

From those graphs you can also easily check when servers are gaining most points on the others.

Simple truth of the matter is: playing better than the other servers with full maps will indeed give you a score advantage, but that advantage is insignificant compared to the advantage you get when you’re capping all 4 maps unopposed due to having higher numbers.

Would BT still be winning this matchup without unopposed capping? Probably yes (although it’s hard to tell due to the fact that BT comes into prime time with a previous advantage from the morning capping and the morale boost of the general situation), but it would be with a much smaller margin. On the other hand, if either VS or Desolation (or anyone else for that matter) had 666 players available during the 8-12AM period, they’d be crushing BT regardless of how well organized the server is.

This is not belittling anyone; I explicitly stated you know how to make very good use of your superior numbers. But denying them is ridiculous IMO. Apart from the obvious fact that the “new” BT is essentially three WvW servers rolled into one (“old” BT + GH + FSP), do you honestly believe any server can get to 450+ points/tick in a situation of equal numbers?

lepri.6504:

The server claims to have better skilled players is the one who need ego nerf. Good players are everywhere

No they’re not. Good players are in good guilds and/or in competitive environment.
Exceptions don’t refute that.
[/quote]

I agree to this. Even bad players can become good with the right guide and lessons.

I created this thread because some of us actually like to talk about the matchup, give a shoutout to people who give good fights, talk about funny situations and keep each other appraised of the score if they dont have access to the game or the matchup site from work, or wherever they are.

We know from experience that the morning Xaoc Swarm is not a “Win-All” tactic, we are here because our entire server compliments each other and works together.

Speaking of, score update, 15h15 CET.

Total Score:
Blacktide:158 241
Vizunah Square: 89 214
Desolation: 73 008

Points Per Tick:
Blacktide: 430
Vizunah Square: 145
Desolation: 110

Ianervan.3415:

Easy way to refute what you said is being online at server reset. All servers have maxed capacity in WvW (full maps). If your theory was true, every server would have the same amount of points every hour, for as long as all maps are full. This is never the case.

In a 1v1 match-up that would be a valid refutation of the theory, but in a 3 way fight it is quite a bit more complicated than that. It happens all the time that a single server could be fighting on two fronts, it is an expected part of a 3 way fight. Taking a single moment in time, even when all three servers are full, and trying to use it to prove a point is completely meaningless. If the maps were to remain full all the time and one server were to keep their lead constantly, then you could probably make that case, but you would need a much longer time period, without that you are simply jumping to conclusions.

Genev.2450:

I created this thread because some of us actually like to talk about the matchup, give a shoutout to people who give good fights, talk about funny situations and keep each other appraised of the score if they dont have access to the game or the matchup site from work, or wherever they are.

We know from experience that the morning Xaoc Swarm is not a “Win-All” tactic, we are here because our entire server compliments each other and works together.

Speaking of, score update, 15h15 CET.

Total Score:
Blacktide:158 241
Vizunah Square: 89 214
Desolation: 73 008

Points Per Tick:
Blacktide: 430
Vizunah Square: 145
Desolation: 110

Thx mate good to know the score while i am @ work
I see VS is getting a good gap between my Server…..and for you guyz it is a good lead hehe.

hi, just a little post of a french player of vs

i don’t know if we have lots canadians brazilian african swish belgium or uk player but many speak french and are coordinate in wvw (when gw2 start and always now) and it’s very good and i like this!

last weeks are more harder, firt with pa and likely hit other french players after with deso time challenge and now with BT’s player challenge.

finaly thanks to all and hope they have a lot of fun in wvw to.

we are still here and we don’t let you do anything you want ^^

http://hpics.li/fffa317
http://hpics.li/f6a4cb3

Ianervan.3415:

No it’s not.

Servers at the top have better players on average. That’s because better players gravitate towards the competitive positions.

Couldn’t help a grin breaking across my face at that. Oh, people like you, with the delusion that because you’re on a higher ranked server you’re better players, are comical.

Attila the Hun.8569:

You can argue till infinit that you lead all day that becouse BT earli morning shift leaves all stuff what you guys own fully upgraded which require very big effort to capture and requires high amount of players unless is captured at an hour when the keep or tower is undermanned from there you get all day loong lead on points.

That does matter but if sides are equal. So if BT is stronger in the morning and equal in the evening, it will still lead in points, yes.

MagnusLL.8473:

Simple truth of the matter is: playing better than the other servers with full maps will indeed give you a score advantage, but that advantage is insignificant compared to the advantage you get when you’re capping all 4 maps unopposed due to having higher numbers.

It’s not insignificant, it’s just not as big as numbers. My reply wasn’t about numbers not being important, far from that.

We don’t need to compare BT to Deso or Vizu here. Let’s use an extreme example. Do you really think that 20 players from best Vabbi guild would beat 20 players from top BT/Deso guild? Or even if we looked at 50 avg playrs. I don’t think so. That is not to say all skill is at the top but there’s surely more of it, not just numbers.

WvW is a lot about numbers but ignoring skill is a bit unfair to those guilds and players who put a lot of thought into strategy and gameplay.

Twinklefairy.6739:

Couldn’t help a grin breaking across my face at that. Oh, people like you, with the delusion that because you’re on a higher ranked server you’re better players, are comical.

You know, just because to you everything seems the same, and “all people are created equal”, doesn’t mean others who notice the differences are delusional. Maybe they just have eyes. To the blind man, everything is black. Others, they see colors, and they’re not equally represented.

OReilly.9473:

hey Wothan,

yes, The unnamed is the same guild as in warhammer / rift / … etc
about Moonlapse no idea if they are currently playing GW2 or where they play.

Ha nice to see you’r guys again
Hope we can fight you soon.

Ianervan.3415:

Attila the Hun.8569:

You can argue till infinit that you lead all day that becouse BT earli morning shift leaves all stuff what you guys own fully upgraded which require very big effort to capture and requires high amount of players unless is captured at an hour when the keep or tower is undermanned from there you get all day loong lead on points.

That does matter but if sides are equal. So if BT is stronger in the morning and equal in the evening, it will still lead in points, yes.

MagnusLL.8473:

Simple truth of the matter is: playing better than the other servers with full maps will indeed give you a score advantage, but that advantage is insignificant compared to the advantage you get when you’re capping all 4 maps unopposed due to having higher numbers.

It’s not insignificant, it’s just not as big as numbers. My reply wasn’t about numbers not being important, far from that.

We don’t need to compare BT to Deso or Vizu here. Let’s use an extreme example. Do you really think that 20 players from best Vabbi guild would beat 20 players from top BT/Deso guild? Or even if we looked at 50 avg playrs. I don’t think so. That is not to say all skill is at the top but there’s surely more of it, not just numbers.

WvW is a lot about numbers but ignoring skill is a bit unfair to those guilds and players who put a lot of thought into strategy and gameplay.

Well if you don’t know the difference in capturing an empty upgraded keep or tower and a fully manned upgraded keep or tower then we don’t have common topic on what we discusing

Ianervan.3415:

We don’t need to compare BT to Deso or Vizu here. Let’s use an extreme example. Do you really think that 20 players from best Vabbi guild would beat 20 players from top BT/Deso guild? Or even if we looked at 50 avg playrs. I don’t think so. That is not to say all skill is at the top but there’s surely more of it, not just numbers.

It would depend on your selection criterion. If you picked the 20 best players from BT and the 20 best from Vabbi, then you would expect the BT players to be better because you would expect a larger server to have a larger number of outliers to choose from. (By the same reasoning you would expect BT (or Deso) to have more bad players than Vabbi, so a match-up of the 20 worst players should result in a Vabbi victory).

On the other hand if you were to pick 20 random players from BT and 20 random players from Vabbi, then you would expect Vabbi to win. If for no other reason than the chances of picking players that are used to playing together is much higher with Vabbi. As well as the fact that Vabbi’s play-style is probably particularly suited to small group tactics.

Slashpaf.9250:

Vizu wants Deso and his US mercenaries with too big mouthes to be kicked out of this Tier, and the more humiliated they are, the best we feel.

If RUIN has shown us the minimum respect we (the only T1 serv since the beginning) deserved, maybe we would have considered this match differently. But this is not the case, so you’ll learn to be less arrogant next time you’ll fight with the bests.

I can understand the frustration but not everbody is badmouthing you in Desolation, actually IRON have a strict “no badmouthing to anybody” policy, so no need to have prejudices about the whole server and of course humiliation is a bit strong word for a game mate, everybody have their good days and bad days. Blacktide is winning fair and square and Vizunah is putting up a pretty tough fight too so you deserve to be in T1 in my opinion. There is no need to hate an entire server or make this a matter of life and death

Genev.2450:

It might be a numbers game, but without skill and cooperation between those numbers, its not going to work out.

I agree on the cooperation bit, and probably good coordination too. But skill? It really depends what you consider skill honestly.
WvWvW at the moment is about culling/turtling and being smart with tactics on how/when to attack/defend something.
Probably the only times people use different skill is before going in to use a stealth barrier and pre-buffing to charge in and spam those AoEs very hard.

You can probably see there is literally no target calling or target selection since groups just mark their “leader” just to know where to bring the AoE spam on top of him and follow him around lol.

MagnusLL.8473:

Ianervan.3415:

PS: Easy way to refute what you said is being online at server reset. All servers have maxed capacity in WvW (full maps). If your theory was true, every server would have the same amount of points every hour, for as long as all maps are full. This is never the case.

Uhmmm….

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/15

Essentially identical points until 5AM CET when people went to sleep.

From those graphs you can also easily check when servers are gaining most points on the others.

Simple truth of the matter is: playing better than the other servers with full maps will indeed give you a score advantage, but that advantage is insignificant compared to the advantage you get when you’re capping all 4 maps unopposed due to having higher numbers.

Would BT still be winning this matchup without unopposed capping? Probably yes (although it’s hard to tell due to the fact that BT comes into prime time with a previous advantage from the morning capping and the morale boost of the general situation), but it would be with a much smaller margin. On the other hand, if either VS or Desolation (or anyone else for that matter) had 666 players available during the 8-12AM period, they’d be crushing BT regardless of how well organized the server is.

This is not belittling anyone; I explicitly stated you know how to make very good use of your superior numbers. But denying them is ridiculous IMO. Apart from the obvious fact that the “new” BT is essentially three WvW servers rolled into one (“old” BT + GH + FSP), do you honestly believe any server can get to 450+ points/tick in a situation of equal numbers?

And this sums up WvWvW to you. And it is also the reason why a lot of people have turned it down to it, since its basically about numbers and time coverage.

Todza.9856:

Slashpaf.9250:

Vizu wants Deso and his US mercenaries with too big mouthes to be kicked out of this Tier, and the more humiliated they are, the best we feel.

If RUIN has shown us the minimum respect we (the only T1 serv since the beginning) deserved, maybe we would have considered this match differently. But this is not the case, so you’ll learn to be less arrogant next time you’ll fight with the bests.

I can understand the frustration but not everbody is badmouthing you in Desolation, actually IRON have a strict “no badmouthing to anybody” policy, so no need to have prejudices about the whole server and of course humiliation is a bit strong word for a game mate, everybody have their good days and bad days. Blacktide is winning fair and square and Vizunah is putting up a pretty tough fight too so you deserve to be in T1 in my opinion. There is no need to hate an entire server or make this a matter of life and death

I know, we have a lot of respect for IRON and all the pugs of Desolation (and of all servs btw). The whole thing is about RUIN, you know, so don’t worry, there’s no hate, just forum war. And yes, beating RUIN into the ground is a matter of honor on Vizu, so sorry for you if you’re getting hit during the fight, we have nothing against you

Considering the debate “number VS skill VS time coverage” :

- skill can beat number (individual and collective skill) : just look at what RG can do, or any optimized group keeping a position. Of course you can’t win 1 vs 10, but you can limit the losses by playing smarter (guerilla style)
- time coverage > * . BUT, it’s not only a matter of recruiting guilds from another time zone, it’s also a matter of dedication, and motivation. I.e., RUIN gave us the best motivation ever to stay awake at night.

saVdoom.2067:

You can probably see there is literally no target calling or target selection since groups just mark their “leader” just to know where to bring the AoE spam on top of him and follow him around lol.

- Primary is the ele to the right!
- Hold on i can’t see kitten with all this AOE.
- Just fire on the group to the right.
- Firing!
- No no no thats the middle, I said to the right!
- But I shot to the right, there’s nothing more to the right!
- Sure there is, look, invader ele is next to invader um…
- Is he next to a guardian? I think it’s a guardian, it’s one of those kitten rat people wielding something that looks like a toothpick as usual…
- No I think that’s a bow.
- A bow? It looked more like a staff to me
- Shoot the kitten ele! Godd.. PORTAL PORTAL PORTAL
- Oh kitten now I can’t see anything at all. Where are you?
- Lol. Just AOE.

Spiders Spiders Spiders.8043:

- Primary is the ele to the right!
- Hold on i can’t see kitten with all this AOE.
- Just fire on the group to the right.
- Firing!
- No no no thats the middle, I said to the right!
- But I shot to the right, there’s nothing more to the right!
- Sure there is, look, invader ele is next to invader um…
- Is he next to a guardian? I think it’s a guardian, it’s one of those kitten rat people wielding something that looks like a toothpick as usual…
- No I think that’s a bow.
- A bow? It looked more like a staff to me
- Shoot the kitten ele! Godd.. PORTAL PORTAL PORTAL
- Oh kitten now I can’t see anything at all. Where are you?
- Lol. Just AOE.

A simple and funny story of turtle fights

Teenage Mutant GW2 Turtles!!!

Thank you for your sociability.
Our topic is very hot and it complies with incandescence combat
/translated automatically

Ianervan.3415:

Let me repeat one more time: with the way the current system is setup, final scoring is directly proportional to the number of man hours a server can put into the match.

No it’s not.

Servers at the top have better players on average. That’s because better players gravitate towards the competitive positions.

PS: Easy way to refute what you said is being online at server reset. All servers have maxed capacity in WvW (full maps). If your theory was true, every server would have the same amount of points every hour, for as long as all maps are full. This is never the case.

lepri.6504:

The server claims to have better skilled players is the one who need ego nerf. Good players are everywhere

No they’re not. Good players are in good guilds and/or in competitive environment.
Exceptions don’t refute that.

Lol ok hang on a minute. What is your definition of Good players? Because i’m pretty aware of the tPvP community at the moment (TD, PTC, Onib, Ninja Chiftans) and so on, and none of those guilds are in crowded server. Both in US/EU. So you might have to start wonder what a good player mean to you.. you might be thinking a “decent dedicated player” or so?

Because i do know back in warhammer i’d even take some people from said “pro warbands” in here to groups and small scale fights and they couldn’t do anything nor perform well without being told what to do and where to go, and in small scale 6v6 fights there would be other people that would perform much better then those who play in large scale fights. Not saying that a good player doesn’t do both, but it usually a group of 5-6 out of the 20-30 that runs with the same guild tag.

Ianervan.3415:

Twinklefairy.6739:

Couldn’t help a grin breaking across my face at that. Oh, people like you, with the delusion that because you’re on a higher ranked server you’re better players, are comical.

You know, just because to you everything seems the same, and “all people are created equal”, doesn’t mean others who notice the differences are delusional. Maybe they just have eyes. To the blind man, everything is black. Others, they see colors, and they’re not equally represented.

LOL. Seems you’re the one that’s blind here my friend if you consider T1 to be the most competitive, and therefore where the majority of good players are.
As you seem to base your assumption of competitiveness on ranking, and thereby points, then t1 is in fact one of the least competitive matchups as Blacktide are steamrolling their opposition compared to others that have a far closer scoreline and thereby a much more competitive matchup. T8 is far more competitive than T1 as those servers have far closer scores, any of them could win without anything too outlandish happening, whereas Blacktide have almost guaranteed the win unless they all quit.

Know why your servers are T1? Coverage, nothing more, yes you may have a fair amount of good players/guilds amongst the masses but to assume being in the higher tiers means you have a higher average skill level is indeed delusional.

I feel sorry for the moderators that are deleting worthless posts in Desolation vs Vizunah Sqaure vs Blacktide threads. No wondering they’re just closing them.

PvE, WvW and SPvP are completely different playstyles, people who are good in 1 aspect might suck horribly at another.

I’m good at PvE and the SPvP i did, i seemed half-decent at, though that was early game and i’m sure that if i tried again now i’d get my kitten handed over to me.
I’m a good/useful member of a WvW group, but i couldn’t lead my way out of a paper bag.

You get the idea.

When we talk about player skill and whos got it its important to remember what we mean with playerskill. If we talk about twitch skill, and eye to handreaction coupled with fast reactiontimes to unpredictable scenarios you dont neccessary find them in guilds that dominate www. Its far more likey youd find those people in smalltightknit guilds that do tournement pvp or roll in ganksquads ( much like the 8v8 in daoc. When it comes to guilds that have a huge impact on wvw, communicating skills, social skills, and a willing to listen to order is the foremost important skills the members should have mastered.

Twinklefairy.6739:

LOL. Seems you’re the one that’s blind here my friend if you consider T1 to be the most competitive, and therefore where the majority of good players are.
As you seem to base your assumption of competitiveness on ranking, and thereby points, then t1 is in fact one of the least competitive matchups as Blacktide are steamrolling their opposition compared to others that have a far closer scoreline and thereby a much more competitive matchup. T8 is far more competitive than T1 as those servers have far closer scores, any of them could win without anything too outlandish happening, whereas Blacktide have almost guaranteed the win unless they all quit.

Know why your servers are T1? Coverage, nothing more, yes you may have a fair amount of good players/guilds amongst the masses but to assume being in the higher tiers means you have a higher average skill level is indeed delusional.

As everyone know matches are won during offpeak hours. Thus, rank has little to do with skill. However, the amount of organised guilds/groups during EU primetime has been alot greater from T2 and up. My gaming experience has been alot better in T2 and T1 than in any of the lower tiers due to a higher “low” standard.

I am playing on Vs from start, so I saw almost every T1 match-ups, and I can tell you the server that won, was always the one with the higher presence through the week. It was often us to begin with. Recently lot of servers manage to pull higher presence.

Little to do with individual skills really.

Though it is a common thing spread through humanity it seems : the feeling of “I am so good, they are noobs”.

Like in league of legend , in normal games, lot of pro trash talkers, when you point they have a random elo, they always go ‘blablabla I am unlucky with my mates all the time, only get noob team’.

The “best players” are on competitive environments made me smile.

LOL sup with Vizuna at EB? its primetime, i doubt they dont have queues….

Joriel.1530:

LOL sup with Vizuna at EB? its primetime, i doubt they dont have queues….

Welcome to our world. World of BlackTide!

Thanks all of the guilds from Deso and VS for giving us very, very entertaining battles, especially on BT borderland. It’s unstopable fun, I really don’t care about the score, REALLY, as far as fights are so nice.
I’m also sure that Deso and VS will have a better vision of what Blacktide can bring to the battle and won’t… I don’t know… underestimate us? Of course there is also a thing about our hunger of victories which is still insatiable
Anyway guys thanks for effort of every single player. Still, I know that you can make this match even more epic in next days/rotation, because we’re doing what we can)
See you on the battlefield.

Joriel.1530:

LOL sup with Vizuna at EB? its primetime, i doubt they dont have queues….

EB is only PUGs on Vizunah, sometime it’s enough, sometime not.

Slashpaf.9250:

Joriel.1530:

LOL sup with Vizuna at EB? its primetime, i doubt they dont have queues….

EB is only PUGs on Vizunah, sometime it’s enough, sometime not.

Those War Legend puggies, at least their side admits it as well.

Thanx a lot for the fights on BT bl, especially [RG], [CIR], [ThUn] main ennemies that I met since thursday night. Thanx for the awesome fights and for the brainstorming resulting.
Tonight, I got a lot of fun trying to /sign some BT at the ben of a road

Have a good night, see you tomorrow on battlefields !

Empyre.2531:

Slashpaf.9250:

Joriel.1530:

LOL sup with Vizuna at EB? its primetime, i doubt they dont have queues….

EB is only PUGs on Vizunah, sometime it’s enough, sometime not.

Those War Legend puggies, at least their side admits it as well.

:D
I didn’t even know WL was on EB these days. They usually go on borderlands.

again as most nights. thank you Viz for the great fights in bt bl.

p.s hihi [WL].

<3 [rg]

MagnusLL.8473:

Hey Magnus, another thing came to my mind. Do you know why exactly are numbers so important and defining in WvW?

Because hardly any group uses tactics.

So it all ends down to zerg clashes where you have some skilled people on one side, some skilled on another, some low lvls on one side, some low lvls on another, all with mixed random professions. But there is no group organization. What is considered tactic is attacking tower A instead of tower B, but let’s call that strategy; I meant combat tactic.

Even when you have commanders, their group (zerg if you wish) organization only consists of “we’re going there” and “build ram/catapult”. Nothing else, nothing related to actual combat.

Look at Red Guard on Blacktide. They’re one of those rare groups that actually use group organization/tactics. And because of that, they can defeat much bigger groups. Same thing with others who try to do portal bombing or balls/blobs and stuff like that. Cheesy or not, it’s still some kind of tactic, some kind of organization.

But this is very rare. Most of the battles are one zerg rushing into another, and then each man for himself tries to do what is possible but without group synergy.

Because of this, numbers in WvW mean much more than you’d expect. There are many guilds who consider themselves organized but what is meant by this is “people follow the commander left and right and yell if enemy is coming”. The actual group tactic and organization itself is not really present. I know some won’t like me saying this, but compared to some other games I played, GW2 WvW gameplay is actually very low skilled (on a group level). If a good guild/clan from World of Tanks or some other game came to GW2, you know how organization would look like? “Hello, we need 5 Guardians, 5 Mesmers, 8 Elementalists, 1 warrior, 1 necro…” and then applying all the tactics with balling, blasting, portalling and what not. There would be none of “just bring any class” in a guild with limited manpower.

Empyre.2531:

Slashpaf.9250:

Joriel.1530:

LOL sup with Vizuna at EB? its primetime, i doubt they dont have queues….

EB is only PUGs on Vizunah, sometime it’s enough, sometime not.

Those War Legend puggies, at least their side admits it as well.

Hey mate,

Alright you might be one of the finnest guild out there, but still no need to free taunt. It was the first time we ran into you, so we will try to work on something to be able to counter your optimized Lawn mower tactic!
Looking forward to meet you again IG!

cheers

Wookie Team Echo… really deso ??

Heya,

@Vizunah, you have been in Tier 1 for a long time now and are clinging on like grim death. My respect, especially since you, as a National server, seem to lack the night shift

@Desolation, I understand you have some internal issues so perhaps this week didnt see you at your best, I can imagine that your rapid rise to T1 has left many people a bit burned out. Good luck.

@Blacktide. There was some misunderstanding in our thread about one of our guilds moving away and some Blacktide core WvW guilds felt disrespected.

No disrespect was intended fellows. Gunnars does not want to belittle CiR or Unnamed, we are sorry you feel our fighters are not up to your standards but we parted ways quite some time ago so it shouldnt matter that much that perhaps some people on Gunnars do not give you the respect you feel you deserve.

Please understand that when some us say you werent core GH guilds that stems from the fact that you didnt stick around that long once weekly transfers got in. This thread and your results in battle have shown you to be core guilds on Blacktide and none on Gunnars Hold will dispute your role on Blacktide.

CiR and Unnamed have succesfully held the Blacktide Borderlands and should be rightly proud of that. The defenses used in defending cliff(unless that was dawn, I keep mixing em up) and the garrison were inspired. Good use of portals.

Many of us in Gunnars, me included, watch your progress through the ranks with interest. I had expected a bit more of an even score in Tier 1 but the fight now mostly seems to be for 2nd place as catching up with Blacktide seems unlikely for the other two servers. Considering both Desolations and Vizunah’s reputation, Blacktides score is impressive.

Gunnars will just do what Gunnars will do, our playstyles vary from Blacktide and I understand its difficult for the #1 server to respect those in lower tiers.

I hope this post will smooth some ruffled feathers, I do apologise if I have misrepresented/typed anything here but Im very tired, just wanted to make this post now in hopes that tommorow we will see less Blacktide arguing with Gunnars in the Gunnars thread.

Carry on the fight lads! place 1 seems set, 2nd place is still up for debate, and next week a rematch now that you have gotten the chance to test each others mettle. I do hope for a more closely tied score then.

naestho.4376:

Empyre.2531:

Slashpaf.9250:

Joriel.1530:

LOL sup with Vizuna at EB? its primetime, i doubt they dont have queues….

EB is only PUGs on Vizunah, sometime it’s enough, sometime not.

Those War Legend puggies, at least their side admits it as well.

Hey mate,

Alright you might be one of the finnest guild out there, but still no need to free taunt. It was the first time we ran into you, so we will try to work on something to be able to counter your optimized Lawn mower tactic!
Looking forward to meet you again IG!

cheers

to understand the funny and light hearted side to emps comment, its probably worth mentioning to you that he is german.

now re-read.

hahaha. yeah. now you get it! those germans…..so funny.. haha.

love u q1 4 eva!

Sup Genev, hows tricks?

Some nice small fights with blacktide most of the day!

hopefully more to come

Alright, think i might be getting sick though, yet another thing to make me grumpy and have me play less /sigh :p
Also, i still think you killed me earlier, should really check your stream some time if i remember correctly what you look like, i must admit last time i looked i was more focused on the environment than you…. Will have to take revenge some time! (You know, other than by utterly crushing your server and grinding your bones into dust )

@Nidhogg:
“You” as in the GH collective, not you as a person. There are more people than you posting from your server and i would imagine it should be obvious at this point that we only come in when attacked and that people wish the old server the best.

Doesnt matter to me if we’re T1 or T200 lol… we just like the fighting.

I always like fighting JUG in small scale, happy to see you still enjoying yourself.

Am i seeing things or many ruin have jump ship to bt.
lol i knew that would happen anyway,so no surprise there tbh.

Hey Ruin`s,
please update your HP —> http://www.ruinnation.com/

Great fights tonight against [RG] and [CIR]. Keep it up !

Snort.3698:

Wothan.4673:

@Snort, The UnNamed guild was the same guild that in War Karak Norn ?
If yes, you know if Moonlapse guild play on BT/GW2 also ?

Need to fight all this old name again

Hey mate , yes it is us the same guild. We played on Norn/Hirn.

I havent seen any Moonlapse that I am aware off.

There are quite a few of us old Moonlapse faces playing at Piken Square in VII and HoB.

Has RUIN actually come to BT? I really hope not, you guys were quick to say gf etc when you beat us last time, we win this time and you give up?

Fun fights in BT BL all week, usually login to VS starting their afternoon push so always fun to try and get a defense setup whilst trying to hold off Desos daily treb push hehe.

Ianervan.3415:

Hey Magnus, another thing came to my mind. Do you know why exactly are numbers so important and defining in WvW?

Because hardly any group uses tactics.

So it all ends down to zerg clashes where you have some skilled people on one side, some skilled on another, some low lvls on one side, some low lvls on another, all with mixed random professions. But there is no group organization. What is considered tactic is attacking tower A instead of tower B, but let’s call that strategy; I meant combat tactic.

While this is generally true, the main reason numbers are so important is because several game design decisions are absurdly zerg-friendly, so it’s no surprise that almost everything devolves into zerg vs zerg.

The most obvious example is the rez mechanic which makes it impossible for a smaller group to fight a bigger one through a war of attrition. Either you manage to kill all the enemies in one go or you lose.

Another problem is that maps are small and travel is fast, so you can afford to have your main force on a map deployed in 1-2 zergs and you will still have plenty of time to respond to any threat which might materialize on any part of the map.

Or the way a bigger zerg can carry more supplies and thus build more siege wherever they go. Or the inefficiency of siege weapons against big zergs unless you build dozens of them, and how fragile and easily destroyed by AoE they are. Or the fact that the bigger your empire is, the easier it becomes to manage its logistic and keep everything supplied instead of the other way around.
Far, far too many zerg-friendly systems in the game right now for it to be anything else than a numbers’ game, unfortunately.

Also, let’s be honest here: the main “tactic” I see used (and this includes us btw, at least the groups formed by our best WvW guilds) is the turtle ball, which isn’t really a tactic but rather an exploit of absurd weaknesses of the game engine. I understand why everyone uses it since it’s too powerful to pass up but it’s pretty lame to fight mostly static fights against invisible enemies.

Anyway: yes, a smaller group using good tactics can win an engagement against a larger group if the numeric difference isn’t too big. However, in terms of map positions, this seldom changes anything. You can buy yourself a few minutes until the enemy reorganizes, but after they respawn and move back to you, you’re back to square one.
You need manpower to attack and defend and if you don’t have it, yeah you might be able to win a few engagements, or even many of them, but you won’t be able to hold control points. At a bare minimum you need scouts + constant defense of supply lines + manned siege weapons just to hold “your” tower for any period of time on a borderland map where you are outnumbered and start with nothing, and the enemy can simply bring its bigger main zerg on your tower/supply camp whenever he feels like it. Good luck expanding in such a situation.

(This is another example of absurd design btw: it’s impossible to strategically flank an enemy. You have to always attack from the same direction because there’s only one spawn point. Sure you can try to flip a tower/keep other than those closer to your spawn by surprise, but it will be impossible holding it for any decent amount of time anyway. So if you want to expand, the direction of expansion is fixed, which means the enemy outnumbering you knows all too well on which points he has to prioritize defense. And which tactic is ever going to help you if you are 20 vs 40 and all their 40 are on top of your first tower, fully upgraded to T3, filled with supply and a dozen assorted siege weapons?).

Let’s be honest here, we’re playing an alpha version, not even a beta. Hopefully they can fix some of this stuff but I doubt it’s going to be quick.