Guild Wars 2

A lot of people over the course of several months have been asking over and over – where is the reward for winning WvW?

The problem is they had no real suggestion that could be implemented that just didn’t favor the #1 seed in teir 1 or ‘stuck’ servers. Causing more people to transfer to that server – making the reward unfair.

But now we have the new ranking system and with that we have the possibility for the first time of a weekly reward.

But what should this reward be based off of? What is winning? To me Rating is winning. Once the rankings settle down I think the best thing to do is base it on your servers ability to increase its rating.
An increase in rating = a win for your server and everyone in your server is rewarded. A decrease in rating = a loss. This way the #1 server in the #1 tier isn’t held at a higher reward rate than any other server. If your server performs better than its rating indicates you get a reward, if it performs worse, you get nothing (or a consolation prize like +wxp). Over time you will get a reward for 50% of your matches, and even in matches where you are heavily outgunned you can still increase your servers rating for that reward – but you gotta play.
Anet can use a daily WvW achievements to track if you are eligible for the reward, If you manage to complete at least 1 WvW achievements in 3 out of the 7 days in the week then you get the gold level, silver for 2, and bronze for 1. If you do not participate in WvW you are not rewarded.

Rewards:
Gold level
2 Guild Commendation (if member of a guild with AoW V or better)
2 Rare or better
2 superior siege BP’s
50 silver
an account bound item that can be turned in for +5000 WXP
Silver Level
1 Guild Commendation (If member of a guild with AoW V or better)
1 Rare or better
1 Superior Siege BP
30 Silver
an account bound item that can be turned in for +2500 WXP
Bronze Level
1 Rare or better
1 Siege BP
15 Silver
an account bound item that can be turned in for +1000 WXP
Consolidation
Gold an account bound item that can be turned in for +5000 WXP
Silver an account bound item that can be turned in for +2500 WXP
Bronze an account bound item that can be turned in for +1000 WXP

Issues that need to be resolved before system is implemented:
Server rating and projected rating change need to be implemented in the WvW User Interface
Ratings need to stabilize under the new random matching system – will probably take 4 weeks of matchups to get close.
Transfers are an issue, so players should be ineligible for rewards from the current and next matchup much like wvw bonuses if they transfer servers.

One side effect is it might change peoples outlook on wvw, instead of just playing to ‘win’ the matchup servers will be trying to beat their rating, which is a much more competitive and achievable goal than trying to get the most points out of all 3 servers. That means servers that get matched up will be able to win rating, and due to participation requirements for the rewards should see them fight harder against overpopulated servers giving those servers more conflict. Once servers reach equilibrium they should win and lose rating roughly equally – meaning everyone from t1 to t8 (or t9) is going to over time get the same amount of rewards as long as they are actively participating in wvw. With this reward system your servers population isn’t the prime factor in determining if you will be getting the wvw reward or the consolidation prize.

TLDR
Your server gains rating, you WIN, and you get rewarded
Your server loses rating, you LOSE, and you get a consolation prize
over time servers will even out at a 50/50 win/loss rate, as your server rating increase it becomes more likely for your server to lose, and as you lose it becomes more likely you will win rating.

seems like a solid plan

One downside would be servers that attempt to manipulate it by throwing every other week. But the win/loss rate will even out in the long run anyway and I don’t think the reward is good enough to intentionally try to manipulate matches (besides trying harder to win). Added TLDR to op.

It’d be easy enough to just add a chest for winning. Something just like the chest for leveling. Problem solved.

Except read the issue about stacked servers.

It will just encourage people to transfer to stacked servers so they can keep winning.

So problem not solved. Try again. The easy solution isn’t always the best solution.

Going to give this one last shot now that anet has split the forums.

Give it a read and post your support or post what you feel is wrong with it.

There is already a reward system in place that gives every server buffs based on their score in WvW.

I don’t know if very many people even notice them anymore.

I think Anet hoped these buffs would bring the Pve players out for the benefit of the server but the JP is much more attractive in that regard.

I would not enjoy a feature such as this one if the rating became enough of a focus that there was no fun to be had. I see glimpses of this now when people start to chastise others for capping something too soon before the PPT is tallied.

I would also have concerns about the potential exploitation of spies and multiple account users finding ways to push down the servers that already struggle to be competitive.

When rewards are at stake, players will move to a winning server, or move to another game if the system can be manipulated.

I am not trying to dismiss any ideas here, just some food for thought and potential problems to be solved before any such system can be introduced.

The winning based on rating instead of overall server score attempts to get around stacked servers from abusing the reward system. The more stacked a server the higher the rating of that server will climb making it harder if not impossible to keep a positive rating flow.

Also I think improving ones server rating is a much more achievable goal especially when matchups are uneven like SoS having to go against TC. And it will be fair for servers like vabbi that are on the absolute bottom.

@chefdiablo Im pretty sure that the buffs you get are near identical whether you finish first or last in the end, as long as the scores are reasonably close and your not pulling 695PPT all week long.

I totally agree, there is not enough incentive to win. I also believe that you should be required to contribute to WvW in order to receive any form of buff and/or reward. Also, I believe there should be a small reward for server that win in a given week, whilst the larger reward should be given by your ranking rather than whether you win or lose the week.

Sounds good, but the ratings definitely need to stabilize first.

I would also like to see some kind of leaderboard for your server after each match up finishes, that could contain for example;

• Most active player
• Most active commander
• Most siege blueprints used
• Most repairs done
• Most kills
• Most objectives captured
• Most kills by guild
• Most objectives captured by guild
• Most Dolyaks killed

Draygo.9473:

Except read the issue about stacked servers.

It will just encourage people to transfer to stacked servers so they can keep winning.

So problem not solved. Try again. The easy solution isn’t always the best solution.

Well then. I’d say congrats to arena net on money made if anyone transfers servers for a single chest once a week that is more than likely going to drop a crap green and only reward 5 badges and a possible piece of siege. Considering that someone that WvWs consistently is getting at least 2 of these chests a day, 4 if they have a back log, I don’t see the issue with one more per week for winning.

I’d be fine with the reward being as insignificant as 100 wxp and a free piece of siege. The item chance can be removed from the victory chest. I’d just like to see some level of reward even if it has to be a crap reward to prevent server stacking..

yep, sounds like a nice idea, if the ratings stabilizes…

Personally I think there should be a 1st and 2nd prize, but no third. Just simply if you come in 1st with the most points everyone who logged at least 4 hours of WvW that week gets some of that reward. 1st prize would be better then 2nd of course. And maybe there’s some extra goodies for the whole server (or a buff), but I think the main prize should only be rewarded to those who actually played WvW. The whole point should be to encourage playing in WvW. I would also like a gold or silver statue that appears in Lions arch when you get first place or second. The 2nd place prize would solve the problem of the red and blue servers not competing once the green server pulled ahead.

Draygo.9473:

A

TLDR
Your server gains rating, you WIN, and you get rewarded
Your server loses rating, you LOSE, and you get a consolation prize
over time servers will even out at a 50/50 win/loss rate, as your server rating increase it becomes more likely for your server to lose, and as you lose it becomes more likely you will win rating.

That would be a brilliant move by Anet. What an excellent idea.

@entropy The OP addressed why that was a bad idea and I’m inclined to agree. Rewards based soley on placing first and to some degree second, only promotes server stacking, unless the rewards completely suck in which case what’s the point?

@OP Nice idea, once the ratings stabilize I would love to see something like this.

I think this is a fairly decent solution tbh.

Personally I don’t care if there are rewards or not but this looks like a decent way of bringing them in for those who really want them

We need more to make the competing better…rewards more of an after thought I don’t care to be given something for every little thing we do…aka no consolidation prizes…also these rewards should only be given if played a certain amount of hours in WvW that week

It can’t be based on hours, or else people will sit in citadel doing nothing(sad but true). Has to be based on accomplishments. You get the reward if your server rating increases and you have done the minimum of …

Killed 10 yaks
Captured 5 camps
Captured 1 tower

I like this.

/15chars

I’m in full agreement that there needs to a more meaningful reward system on the server level. The buffs just aren’t prevalent enough for anyone to even notice.

I definitely like the idea that the win condition is based on Rating Gain/Loss as that definitely works better with the new matchup system & means even if a server gets crushed by coverage….err Score, they can still “win” the matchup if they reach a certain level of performance.

Aside from your chest rewards I’d like to suggest 2 more rewards that could be implemented.

1) Shorten WvW to 6 days, making Thursday an off day. On that day the WvW maps convert to PvE versions of themselves and each server gets access to their Borderland map. The winning server is also granted access to a PvE version of EB.

2) Instead of ramping up the buffs throughout the match they should be “awarded” for the next week. They should have predictable score thresholds to unlock (5% = 50k, 10 = 100k, etc..) and should be something people notice when they are present/lacking.

Forzani.2584:

It can’t be based on hours, or else people will sit in citadel doing nothing(sad but true). Has to be based on accomplishments. You get the reward if your server rating increases and you have done the minimum of …

Killed 10 yaks
Captured 5 camps
Captured 1 tower

I covered requirements in the OP. My idea is to base it off of completing at least one of the three wvw dailies at least 3 times during the matchup week. This allows anet to expand on current systems and as they add more wvw dailies allow people to participate in more ways. If you only complete 1 wvw daily on 1 day you get bronze, if you complete a wvw daily on 2 separate days you get silver, if you do more you get gold. If you did nothing you get nothing.

If your suggesting the system should be another layer of requirements instead of using existing requirements – what about servers that might not be able to capture a tower during the primetime of certain timezones? for example vabbi or during oceanic hours when your fighting dragonbrand.

The following wvw daily achievements can be completed even when your server is horribly outmanned
WvW Player kills (if your being spawn camped it isn’t terribly difficult to pull enemies in range of legendary guards – or catch people 1 on 1 away from your spawnpoint)
Dolyak kills
Sentry captures
Camp captures (if you know what your doing or slip by in parties of 2 or greater you may need 3 people for upgraded camps. )
Veteran kills

Campalishous.9076:

1) Shorten WvW to 6 days, making Thursday an off day. On that day the WvW maps convert to PvE versions of themselves and each server gets access to their Borderland map. The winning server is also granted access to a PvE version of EB.

Why on earth would you want to do that?! If I wanted a pve map… I’d go to all the other readily made ones out of wvw…

I actually REALLY like this proposal: you are playing against your rating. It is a completely different mindset to the outmanned server that has no chance of winning! In those situations, you really can be making a difference to your server by just flipping camps or yakslapping. Grade A+ suggestion.

I also think the reward doesn’t need to be all that awesome (those you listed are pretty good), its just nice to feel like you have a chance of winning even when getting dominated on the map!

Also, I would add a requirement for a certain amount of participation for your server (certain amount of WXP gain perhaps, to prevent logging in to heal yourself).

i also think that this game should have a personal ranking system like a symbol (maybe actual military ranks)after your name that represents your rank to give players more motive to pvp. since this game has no superior armor there needs to be other motives for players to pvp. I don’t know how many of you guys played a game like Shayia which had a rank system for the individual that would give extra states. also in shayia they had a bless system were when a faction was winning in pvp they would get something called bless that drastically increased everything for like 5 min that was really cool and motivating to pvp then .I am not asking for extra states but maybe like for max pvp rank 5% increase in gold or magic find something like that i think Aion has a system like that as well. i Also think the pvp armor obtained with the badges need extreme makeover the medium one is fine but the rest suck . i personally don’t really want this but i have a lot of friends that want a advantage over someone just because they put in more time i know this game is about skill but i feel like a little advantage might not hurt like maybe for max rank people they can buy gear with same states as exotics but have a place for runes and jewels or like 2 jewels ( they thinks you put in your accessory).

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

Why on earth would you want to do that?! If I wanted a pve map… I’d go to all the other readily made ones out of wvw…

A multitude of reasons:

1) To give a hope of an option to people who won’t finish map completion otherwise
2) To allow for some community buildup of the next matchup (assuming the new system stays in place)
3) Because it is a very tangible reward & is similar in design to ones used in past games (WoW, DAoC, etc..)
4) Because it is an area ANet could make a real unique meta-event chain in using the WvW design/mechanics
5) And to add a little chill down period for WvW & its never ending warfare

Hell we are already doing it anyways when the match is no longer in question, this would just be formalizing it.

With that said, I’m also not opposed to just have a cloned PvE version open 1 day a week while the normal WvW zone continues on.

I made a system a while back that would provide incentive to win as well as incentive to even out wvw populations for servers but know one seemed to care one way or the other

Why not just RNG reward a server, because that is pretty much all the OP is suggesting. If you get a good roll on the RNG matchup system you gain points, if you do not, you lose points.

The issue overall is thakittens all about population and coverage and any reward system you use will eventually just be about rewarding coverage and population. Fix the underlying problem, then worry about rewards.

You need better wvw stats but also wvw needs to to changed so that player can play balanced games if they are outmanned so they can still use personal skill and, slash communities to achieve points and still have fun.

Niim.9260:

Why not just RNG reward a server, because that is pretty much all the OP is suggesting. If you get a good roll on the RNG matchup system you gain points, if you do not, you lose points.

The issue overall is thakittens all about population and coverage and any reward system you use will eventually just be about rewarding coverage and population. Fix the underlying problem, then worry about rewards.

It seems random now because the rating system hasn’t yet caught up with the freed up system. In short ratings are really inaccurate right now it should be more correct in the coming weeks.

Niim.9260:

Why not just RNG reward a server, because that is pretty much all the OP is suggesting. If you get a good roll on the RNG matchup system you gain points, if you do not, you lose points.

The issue overall is thakittens all about population and coverage and any reward system you use will eventually just be about rewarding coverage and population. Fix the underlying problem, then worry about rewards.

1. No, his suggestion isn’t all about rewarding coverage and population. You couldn’t be further from the truth.

2, Fix the underlying problem ? …..how would you suggest they fix it ?

Niim.9260:

Why not just RNG reward a server, because that is pretty much all the OP is suggesting. If you get a good roll on the RNG matchup system you gain points, if you do not, you lose points.

The issue overall is thakittens all about population and coverage and any reward system you use will eventually just be about rewarding coverage and population. Fix the underlying problem, then worry about rewards.

Did you even read the OP?

On Gunnars we got a bad roll. As a r20 server we’re now fghting r8 and r10 servers… yet from the OPs point of view we’re “winning” this matchup.

All this despite having far less numbers, and far worse coverage.

The overall idea is good, but why would I want to give pve players that doesnt give a single kitten about wvw a free reward chest for my work? They already got the unfair buffs.
There should something else in additions, lets say you get personal points for capturing objectives, like 3 points for keep, 2 for tower, 1 for camp, 1 for sentry etc. and when you reach 100 points you are able to collect a chest at the end of matchup.

adoslaw.7091:

The overall idea is good, but why would I want to give pve players that doesnt give a single kitten about wvw a free reward chest for my work? They already got the unfair buffs.
There should something else in additions, lets say you get personal points for capturing objectives, like 3 points for keep, 2 for tower, 1 for camp, 1 for sentry etc. and when you reach 100 points you are able to collect a chest at the end of matchup.

100 points seems a little steep for players that might play gw2 for only an hour or two a day. If you are up against a tough opponent or doing jobs like scouting you will probably not get 100 points under your system.

Do you think doing a WvW daily on 3 separate days for the gold level reward is too shallow a requirement?

Maybe mix it have it be say like getting all 3 WvW daily achievements at least 3-4 times during that match or 50 or so points however that would balance?

Then that could punish people who cant finish Repair X daily (your on a server that has no opposition in your timezone) and Capture tower daily in their timezone (for example you’re on vabbi).

By requiring just 1 it allows people who play the game casually to complete the requirement, participate in one major fight or go behind enemy lines and kill a few yaks or capture a few supply camps or whatever the daily options are.

The system needs to be fair for all servers, that’s includes servers in matchups where they are camped or camping for most of the day.