Guild Wars 2

I will probably get some flack for this, but just want to see if others are taking a similar approach while roaming in WvW. I have been roaming in WvW with my power necromancer for a while now and am perfectly aware that it is not the most effective roamer, but it is certainly fun and I think over time I have gotten somewhat better at playing the class/build.

Now while roaming in WvW, I have found myself coming up against two broad categories of opponents. Opponents who are fun to fight and those who use extremely broken mechanics to great effect. There are several builds that exist that, IMO, are just not fun to fight. A condition/invisible mesmer with endless dodge roll clones is not fun to fight. A perma-evade or perma-stealth thief is not fun to fight. Most builds that use perplexity runes are not fun to fight.

That is not to say that I think that they are “op”, but as the opponent, there is little enjoyment in fighting certain builds. I have fought them and sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. Regardless of the outcome, the fight wasnt fun. Recently, when I have come up against one of these builds when roaming, I will just alt-F4. I dont care if they get a bag or if I have to run back from spawn.

As much as we can say “WvW isnt balanced”, which is true, some fights are not fun and I refuse to fight them. If anyone else feels the same, I urge you to just alt-F4 when you come up against these builds. Maybe over time when people who play these builds see that they cannot find fights, they will play a build/class that allows for a good back and forth without resetting the fight whenever they get close to losing.

Not fighting them and alt-f4ing are different things. I would rather take them in a long chase to waste their time than just alt-f4.

As a power necro, there is little/no disengage so that is less of an option. I try to alt-f4 as soon as I see that it is an unfun build in order to drive the point home that I am not ragequitting, just refusing to fight

Sepreh.5924:

As a power necro, there is little/no disengage so that is less of an option. I try to alt-f4 as soon as I see that it is an unfun build in order to drive the point home that I am not ragequitting, just refusing to fight

As necro is my main and only thing I ever play, I feel your pain. I honestly do. Some of the fights are so far gone to the land of ridiculousness that I rather crochet and play on pinterest all night instead of bother to find good fights.

The idea behind doing as you do is understandable, but I prefer to make them chase too. Yes, our mobility utterly lacks in every aspect. But some how, I’ve learned to dip out of things rather fast with a few tricks. If I’m good at anything, it’s escaping.

I always alt-f4 when i die unfairly. If i lose to someone who all they do is slap conditions on you and watch you die as they spam fear, ill alt-f4 or sometimes even stunlock wars but only well geared ones pose a problem.

Basically if your build isn’t yours i don’t see you fit for stomping me because its not you who won the fight. It’s whoever made that build for you. But if it’s not the main meta and you’re using a build that requires skill and actually beat me then sure go ahead and stomp w/e.

If I’m outnumbered, i alt-f4. Usually try to before to many people get to hit me so less people get credit where it isn’t earned.

Alt-F4 does nothing. I still get your bag and wxp. In fact, if you alt-F4, you are giving your opponent something better than killing you… they made you quit. They still got everything they would have if you had died (your loot) but now you also have to either stay offline or reconnect, and possibly re-que. That’s way better than a straight up kill. I love it when people [Alt-F4] against me.

Senjun.8149:

Basically if your build isn’t yours i don’t see you fit for stomping me because its not you who won the fight. It’s whoever made that build for you.

Sorry to tell you, but there’s not really any original builds left. Some people fine tune their builds based on personal preference, but the main elements of each build are still there.

“Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination.” -Jim Jarmusch

“Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren’t very new after all.” -Abraham Lincoln

“Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal.” -T.S. Eliot

Are there builds out there that are possibly too powerful? Yes.

Are there builds that YOUR build won’t be able to counter? Yes.

Are there enemies that are running builds that YOU will counter? Yes.

Are you going to learn anything about the fight if you Alt-F4 from it? No.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Alt-F4 does nothing. I still get your bag and wxp. In fact, if you alt-F4, you are giving your opponent something better than killing you… they made you quit. They still got everything they would have if you had died (your loot) but now you also have to either stay offline or reconnect, and possibly re-que. That’s way better than a straight up kill. I love it when people [Alt-F4] against me.

There’s a difference between alt-F4 when you are about to be stomped and alt-F4 at almost full health when you run into a build that is not fun to fight. Again, it’s not rage quitting because of a loss. When I stick around, I’d say vs broken builds I’m about a 60-40 loss-win ratio. It is more so not giving someone the satisfaction of fighting someone else with an unfun build.

If your goal is wxp and a bag great for you but I get more pleasure from actually having a good back and forth fight which I cannot get from certain builds so I would rather just take the time to quit and come back

As a condition mesmer with endless dodge roll clones, I thank you for the free bag.

Perplexity engineers, perma-stealth thieves, and condition shatterer mesmers. I usually run. Now as a thief, I can run, but engineers and thieves are great chasers, so if you meet a decent one in each category, you’re probably screwed if you want to run. If you fight, you might learn something. (ie not to solo roam on a necro, lol).

I can’t believe this thread. You only like to play if you win which seems rather childish. Eventually you just won’t log back in if you find it so easy to quit.

Why roam if you can’t handle a loss? Join a small group at least and then you can hopefully coordinate to beat those cheese builds.

OP TLDR? People who don’t take the time to learn to counter builds or know the limitations of their own build will just Alt-F4 like a poor-sport. Then they come here and post about it like we’re supposed to care.

I mistook this thread for somewhere that people might look for information to help them. I apologize, I didn’t realize it was purely for whining about things people don’t understand, or are unwilling to learn about.

Tachii.3506:

Perplexity engineers, perma-stealth thieves, and condition shatterer mesmers. I usually run. Now as a thief, I can run, but engineers and thieves are great chasers, so if you meet a decent one in each category, you’re probably screwed if you want to run. If you fight, you might learn something. (ie not to solo roam on a necro, lol).

Perplexity got nerfed, it’s pretty darn well balanced now. Perma stealth thieves don’t really do anything, if you want to counter them, running glass isn’t the way to do it. Condi shatter mesmers are easy, dodge the shatters, kill clones from ranged when you can’t see the mesmer, and cleansing (of course). As a thief you have the easiest time of any class to escape. With a little deception, you can even escape a zerg that runs you over. (stealth and run the direction people don’t expect you to run. Stealthing and then running in a straight line until you’re revealed is about the dumbest thing you can do)

Sepreh.5924:

It is unbelievable how people attempt to defend blatantly broken builds/runes/mechanics etc

Check this out, it’s like I already responded to your post, in the PAST! Milky the time traveler!

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Are there builds out there that are possibly too powerful? Yes.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Sepreh.5924:

It is unbelievable how people attempt to defend blatantly broken builds/runes/mechanics etc

Check this out, it’s like I already responded to your post, in the PAST! Milky the time traveler!

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Are there builds out there that are possibly too powerful? Yes.

Again, missing the point. Broken doesn’t necessarily mean too powerful. It means something that isn’t working right. Mechanics that make the enjoyment factor of a fight one sided are broken.

It has nothing to do with being over powered or losing. I am going to make up a class. It’s called blob. Blob had one trait. When you hit blob, there is a 50% chance for him to lose all hp and 50% chance for you to lose all hp. You have an even shot to win or lose but it’s just not fun.

That is an extreme, but in the same way, something being broken does not mean it is an “I win” build. It means playing against it is not fun

Furiousbeard.7602:

I can’t believe this thread. You only like to play if you win which seems rather childish. Eventually you just won’t log back in if you find it so easy to quit.

Why roam if you can’t handle a loss? Join a small group at least and then you can hopefully coordinate to beat those cheese builds.

This. A million times, this. If you’re going to pvp, whether it’s wvw, spvp, Counter-Strike, Call of Duty, or Mario Kart, you HAVE to embrace the idea that you’re going to lose. There are ALWAYS opponents, builds, and situations that will put you on your back, and you ought to be very grateful for them because those are the circumstances that provide you the opportunity to improve.

Pro tip: This concept applies quite well to athletics, jobs, and romantic relationships – along with many other real-life circumstances. If you’re never playing over your head to some extent, you’re going to be bored (and ultimately have a less fulfilling life).

You guys complaining about XYZ might want to read this.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

This doesn’t mean that I don’t agree that some things are in need of tweaking, but alt+f4-ing is not the answer.

If you only want to fight 1v1 Vs. people of specific specs there is the OS.

Again, you are missing the point. Fighting up levels is not fun. Are they op? Nope, just the opposite but that makes the fight unfun. Playing vs certain builds is the same way.

Stop using this misguided logic. Being beaten is not the same thing as not being fun. I have lost many fights that were fun fights. Just like most, I can appreciate losing and learning from it. I have even more recently been recording and reviewing fights, wins and losses, to see what I have done right and wrong and learn from it.

Again, people are selectively reading this then arguing a different point. It is easy to say “this person thinks this build is not fun because he lost” rather than say "maybe there is something inherently wrong about this build that makes it less fun for those fighting against it.

Again, OP and being unfun to fight against are two different things.

It is of course your personal decision to alt F4, whenever you feel a fight is not fun, I do not see it as a cowardly action as this is only a game, I simply see it as something I would not personally do or suggest.

My gut feeling is that you will achieve an increase in “broken builds” once people read that using them leads to alt F4 and forum posts promising to alt F4 when facing those builds.

elkirin.8534:

It is of course your personal decision to alt F4, whenever you feel a fight is not fun, I do not see it as a cowardly action as this is only a game, I simply see it as something I would not personally do or suggest.

My gut feeling is that you will achieve an increase in “broken builds” once people read that using them leads to alt F4 and forum posts promising to alt F4 when facing those builds.

Haha, I think you are right about that last point. It just speaks to the fact that people hide behind the veil of the internet and become crap crappers (only pseudo-profanity allowed on these forums) when they do not need to be held accountable for what they do.

Again, the point is that the obstacles and opponents you face in pvp and in life do not exist solely for your entertainment. The ENTIRE point of competition is that the opponent is engaging you on THEIR terms, not yours. Satisfaction is to be found in self-mastery in such a way as to allow mastery of the circumstances.

If the thing you want to do in wvw is solo roaming, and the thing you wish to destroy the most in solo roaming is cheese builds, then go solo roaming with a class and build to hunt and destroy cheese. Be the bane of all perplexity engineers and condi/stealth mesmers you come up against, and revel in the knowledge that you’re smashing the thing that bugs you the most.

I don’t see anybody in this thread giving negative feedback about seeking out fights you want, it’s the fact that you’re taking other stuff so personally that you’re going to altF4 over running into a build you think is lame.

I do not think that the obstacles / opponents in PvP settings (or life) exist solely for my entertainment. I do, however, think that there are certain builds that exist that many players do not find it fun to fight. The fact that these builds continue to exist is beyond me.

I am not alt-f4 ing out of anger. I am not alt-f4 ing because I take it personally. I am alt-f4 ing to avoid giving someone playing a troll build the satisfaction of a fight.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Alt-F4 does nothing. I still get your bag and wxp. In fact, if you alt-F4, you are giving your opponent something better than killing you… they made you quit. They still got everything they would have if you had died (your loot) but now you also have to either stay offline or reconnect, and possibly re-que. That’s way better than a straight up kill. I love it when people [Alt-F4] against me.

Senjun.8149:

Basically if your build isn’t yours i don’t see you fit for stomping me because its not you who won the fight. It’s whoever made that build for you.

Sorry to tell you, but there’s not really any original builds left. Some people fine tune their builds based on personal preference, but the main elements of each build are still there.

“Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination.” -Jim Jarmusch

“Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren’t very new after all.” -Abraham Lincoln

“Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal.” -T.S. Eliot

Are there builds out there that are possibly too powerful? Yes.

Are there builds that YOUR build won’t be able to counter? Yes.

Are there enemies that are running builds that YOU will counter? Yes.

Are you going to learn anything about the fight if you Alt-F4 from it? No.

Nobody uses what I’m using lol and i seem to manage just fine in even most 2v1 situations.

People who just hop on google and go “best X pvp build” and copy it trait for trait, sigil for sigil, armor for armor, and rune for rune gain no respect.

As a side note, at least this thread is fostering lively discussion

So if those builds didn’t exist, would you still alt-f4 out if someone was beating you?

I hope you continue to run into builds and players you can’t beat. Your donations of bags will be welcomed by all.

Too bad you can’t alt-f4 when competition in real life is too difficult

Furiousbeard.7602:

So if those builds didn’t exist, would you still alt-f4 out if someone was beating you?

I hope you continue to run into builds and players you can’t beat. Your donations of bags will be welcomed by all.

Too bad you can’t alt-f4 when competition in real life is too difficult

Ahhhh please read before posting. It had nothing to do with winning or losing. There are times I am smiling as I am getting stomped because I see the kind of skill and timing I was schooled with and learn from it.

The alt-f4 isn’t about winning or losing. It’s about fighting builds that are not enjoyable to fight against

Speaking of reading, you never answered my question, but don’t worry, I already know the answer.

You have a strange way of telling everybody you’re a poor sport, while being condescending.

Your question was misguided. You asked if I would still alt-f4 out if someone was beating me, even if the unfun builds did not exist.

It has nothing to do with being beat or beating someone else. It has to do with leaving before giving someone running a broken build the satisfaction of fighting

Oyeah, I can get away fine, I’m just saying necros probably won’t.

why did u use “kittany decision”? the word “stupid” doesn’t get caught by the filter.

Your logic is messed up and eventually if you continue on that path you will see yourself alt+f4 more often and perceive more and more losses as unfun and cheese build. Certain builds beat certain builds get another set of armor and equip thats next time you encounter the same character change your skills dont be so 1 dimensional and ignorant. Or go zerg cause roaming isnt for you and roamers deff dont like players that sound like you

Senjun.8149:

I always alt-f4 when i die unfairly. If i lose to someone who all they do is slap conditions on you and watch you die as they spam fear, ill alt-f4 or sometimes even stunlock wars but only well geared ones pose a problem.

Basically if your build isn’t yours i don’t see you fit for stomping me because its not you who won the fight. It’s whoever made that build for you. But if it’s not the main meta and you’re using a build that requires skill and actually beat me then sure go ahead and stomp w/e.

If I’m outnumbered, i alt-f4. Usually try to before to many people get to hit me so less people get credit where it isn’t earned.

If you lose to a terror necro you ragequit LMAO You think it’s unfair that you got feared? What’s the difference between getting slammed with conditions and getting slammed with raw damage? You seriously quit any fight where odds aren’t in your favor? I hate to say it, but you are what’s wrong. Wow. Just wow…

A necro complaining about condition mesmers, seriously?! It is virtually impossible to beat a competent necro with a condition mesmer. The key word there is competent, though. So thank you for the bags I get when people like you Alt+F4, I guess.

Sepreh.5924:

Now while roaming in WvW, I have found myself coming up against two broad categories of opponents. Opponents who are fun to fight and those who use extremely broken mechanics to great effect.

Actualy you are right, I talk with a dev and he told me the world rotate around you. They considering that are only two types of players the one you can kill easy and the ones you cant> ergo brocken mecanics. In the future they will ignore everything else, like hundred of zergs, rest of clases and focus only on what ever you like or dont like. So here is your chance for the next patch, tell us everything else whats wrong for your zerker necro.

Jaxs.5830:

Not fighting them and alt-f4ing are different things. I would rather take them in a long chase to waste their time than just alt-f4.

I do this all the time against cheese-tacular builds on my warrior main. I especially do this against condition builds on classes than require them to be stationary / in a fixed area (i.e. well / mark necros, trap rangers, engineers after they drop their supply crate, etc). It just becomes so godkitten tedious to fight them. As OP mentioned when I win it’s not rewarding or fun, I’m just annoyed even while stomping them lol.

Edit: I meant to say I just have them chase me all over the map if they’re that blood thirsty and I don’t feel like fighting their annoying kitten build.

Aleph Naught.9034:

A necro complaining about condition mesmers, seriously?! It is virtually impossible to beat a competent necro with a condition mesmer. The key word there is competent, though. So thank you for the bags I get when people like you Alt+F4, I guess.

A power Necro mate – big difference between a power Necro and a condition Necro.

As someone who plays both heavily in WvW, Mesmer >>> Necro.

Well played Mesmers are untouchable.

I’ll never understand why people Alt-F4.

Same goes for running away from a 1v1 before we’ve even engaged each other.

You might win some, you might lose even more, but at least have the sack to have a crack at it – worst case you spend a silver in repairs and finish with a bruised ego.

When I face perma-stealth thieves/Any class with Perplexity runes/shatterer mesmers I just know they are bad players, and 99% of the times the fights are just awefull.

I may or may not win, it doesn’t matter, those player are just too bad to enjoy a fight with.

But I don’t alt-F4, I just try to kill them or troll them, and I never feel bad when I loose against a cheesy build

The only thing I find unfun is players that can’t lose a fight because when they start losing they will run so quickly you won’t be able to catch them.

I don’t generally fight anyone, because I suck at it. But someone wants to pick a fight with me, I try because I can always learn something. For example, I learned that I’m completely terrible as a guardian against a mesmer or an engineer.
But sometime I get attacked by a thief. The second he realizes I’m not dumb and he might lose the fight because I won’t let him backstab me and he gets hit multiple times, he runs away. 20 seconds, he’s back. Then gone. Then back. Then gone again…by the end, I’ve made it where I want to or he’s hanging around with NPCs.

But unlike mesmer and engineers, from which I can evade a fight, I don’t have any choice against a stealthy thief.

I solo roam quite a bit and never had the OPs problems to the point I have to ALt F4. Depending on what character I am running, and I have 9 level 80s to choose from, I win or I lose. If I lose against someone with a specific build I can usually counter that build with another toon but invariably I win more then I lose. To ALT F4 from a losing battle is just admitting that well, you suck!

Oh and I have put down many a good condition necro with my mesmer but then again, my mesmer is a power build, not a condition build.

This is the most mind-numbing yet infuriating post I have encountered on these forums to date.

How can you say, “F**k this, I’m not fighting -that-!” is not rage quitting? You’re showing people that you are at a disadvantage. You seem to be under the illusion that every player is at the same skill level or at a skill level below you and use these builds as a crutch to overcome your l337 superiority complex.

Try thinking on both sides for a moment. Maybe these other players are simply better than you are. Maybe these players enjoy the builds they have chosen to play just as you have chosen to roam on a necromancer, because it is -fun for you-.

If you do not think you are at a disadvantage and have nothing to learn from fighting classes which give you a difficult time, then just quit PvPing all together. You’re done. You mastered your craft of alt-f4ing to avoid stepping in a puddle. You got a little muck on your boot, and now you’re turning to go home instead of going ahead.

In the end, though, I give you a 3/10 for being an unintentional troll.

spiritus.7983:

Sepreh.5924:

Now while roaming in WvW, I have found myself coming up against two broad categories of opponents. Opponents who are fun to fight and those who use extremely broken mechanics to great effect.

Actualy you are right, I talk with a dev and he told me the world rotate around you. They considering that are only two types of players the one you can kill easy and the ones you cant> ergo brocken mecanics. In the future they will ignore everything else, like hundred of zergs, rest of clases and focus only on what ever you like or dont like. So here is your chance for the next patch, tell us everything else whats wrong for your zerker necro.

Great response man.

This has nothing to do with who I can and can’t beat easily. It has to do with builds that a majority of players do not have fun fighting against. There are certain builds where afterwards, regardless of outcome, you never think "that was a good fight ". There are certain builds where month after month we see forum posts complaining about the same thing. Guess why – a lot of people don’t have fun as the opponent vs them. Some are upset that they lost but the longer you play, the more you learn to counter those builds. But it has nothing to do with being able to counter them. It has nothing to do with winning or losing. It has all to do with not respecting the player who choses to ignore how broken a given mechanic is and for that reason, choosing not to fight them.

Shinoobi.1259:

This is the most mind-numbing yet infuriating post I have encountered on these forums to date.

How can you say, “F**k this, I’m not fighting -that-!” is not rage quitting? You’re showing people that you are at a disadvantage. You seem to be under the illusion that every player is at the same skill level or at a skill level below you and use these builds as a crutch to overcome your l337 superiority complex.

Try thinking on both sides for a moment. Maybe these other players are simply better than you are. Maybe these players enjoy the builds they have chosen to play just as you have chosen to roam on a necromancer, because it is -fun for you-.

If you do not think you are at a disadvantage and have nothing to learn from fighting classes which give you a difficult time, then just quit PvPing all together. You’re done. You mastered your craft of alt-f4ing to avoid stepping in a puddle. You got a little muck on your boot, and now you’re turning to go home instead of going ahead.

In the end, though, I give you a 3/10 for being an unintentional troll.

I do not think that I am an amazing player. I also appreciate that many players will beat me because of skill. I appreciate that skill and try to learn from it.

I lose a lot while roaming. I also win sometimes. But regardless of outcome, there are some builds that rely on mechanics that day in and day out, people complain about. What people playing these builds chose to ignore is that many other players do not have fun fighting them and they are making the game overall less enjoyable.

The easy response is “less enjoyable for you” or “maybe some people think you play an unfun build”. This isn’t necessarily the most accurate way to kitten but look through the forum history. How many times do you see a theead about how the guardian is grossly overpowered? Or the engineer? Now, look for posts complaining about the perma-stealth thief. Or perplexity runes…

Again, I think those complaints are only somewhat founded as I don’t think those builds are op but rather are not fun to play against because the counter is an unsatisfying mechanic, for example spamming aoe.

I see a lot of angry responses to this thread and my guess is that people playing those blatantly broken builds who have had WvW be their playground are upset that some people will refuse to engage on their terms moving forward. Several times in this thread , I have been insulted as a quitter, not only in wvw but potentially in life as well. I agree – choosing to alt-f4 is a slippery slope that I need to stay mindful of. Regardless, I will continue to quit at the beginning of an engagement with builds taking advantage of broken mechanics

I find it funny how as an engineer (the least played class) im taking advantage of game mechanics if I use a rune set which no doubt is strong but if left out I could get amazing defensive benefits (contemplating Lyssa for example). I never abused the perplexity runes so the nerf didn’t affect my gameplay. Yes the runes might make me kill baddies faster with an extra confusion proc but the simple fact is that good players will not get interrupted easily and better players will kill me.

Also if you find kiting, blinds, blocks and conditions gimmicky gameplay then I don’t know what to say thats what I need to do to win i can’t just spam my autoattack and stand in front of you. THis thread is the same as if I argued that necros are lame to fight against because a condi necro can just transfer all conditions with the press of 1 button or a power necro can just shroud and spam autoattack for hard damage while I keep switching between 3 kits and ground target nades. The classes are different and play different and it breaks monotony. I personally enjoy good hard duels despite the profession or build I’m fighting against.

I don’t think using perplexity runes makes a player worse and I don’t think they make me worse. I play pretty much exactly the same way in spvp with runes of the undead and my results are the same. Like I said I dont like fighting condi necros because i’m at an inherent disadvantage but I still try because well.. have to learn some tricks to fighting them and if i roam I fight what comes up against me. All in all I feel that people still complaining about perplexity have just not managed to play around it and still complain about them when there are clearly bigger balance issues. I also feel that many assume that engineers use perplexity because they got some confusion on them when in fact engineers have kit/weapon skills to apply it which is exactly the reason I don’t feel tied down to the perplexity runes and can swap runes at my liking.

Tuomas.6284:

I find it funny how as an engineer (the least played class) im taking advantage of game mechanics if I use a rune set which no doubt is strong but if left out I could get amazing defensive benefits (contemplating Lyssa for example). I never abused the perplexity runes so the nerf didn’t affect my gameplay. Yes the runes might make me kill baddies faster with an extra confusion proc but the simple fact is that good players will not get interrupted easily and better players will kill me.

Also if you find kiting, blinds, blocks and conditions gimmicky gameplay then I don’t know what to say thats what I need to do to win i can’t just spam my autoattack and stand in front of you. THis thread is the same as if I argued that necros are lame to fight against because a condi necro can just transfer all conditions with the press of 1 button or a power necro can just shroud and spam autoattack for hard damage while I keep switching between 3 kits and ground target nades. The classes are different and play different and it breaks monotony. I personally enjoy good hard duels despite the profession or build I’m fighting against.

I don’t think using perplexity runes makes a player worse and I don’t think they make me worse. I play pretty much exactly the same way in spvp with runes of the undead and my results are the same. Like I said I dont like fighting condi necros because i’m at an inherent disadvantage but I still try because well.. have to learn some tricks to fighting them and if i roam I fight what comes up against me. All in all I feel that people still complaining about perplexity have just not managed to play around it and still complain about them when there are clearly bigger balance issues. I also feel that many assume that engineers use perplexity because they got some confusion on them when in fact engineers have kit/weapon skills to apply it which is exactly the reason I don’t feel tied down to the perplexity runes and can swap runes at my liking.

I appreciate the feedback and apologize for the ambiguity in my statement regarding perplexity runes. When I mentioned them, I was talking about the pre-nerf version in combination with builds that were able to spam interrupts to stack ungodly amounts of it. There were counters (e.g. dont use skills until it runs out) but it was not fun to play against. I have not had enough fights vs the post-patch version to have an opinion about it.

At no point did I say kiting, blinds, blocks and conditions were gimmicky. I am not sure where you got that from. (Edit: I might see where you got that from. When I said "How many times do you see a thread about how the guardian is grossly overpowered? Or the engineer? ", I was making the point that you do not see those threads in WvW forums because those classes do not have mechanics that are inherently not fun to play against)

I understand your point that people may say that my class/build is not fun to play against. I have been trying to avoid specifically talking about the class that I play on purpose – obviously I have a vested interested in my class and or build and do not want speaking about my particular build to color the discussion, although it probably subconsciously colors any discussion I have about this game. I would tend to agree that certain forms of condition necromancer with high toughness who can stack conditions then fear-lock may be one of those un-fun builds to play against. I would also argue that there is a reason that we do not see multiple 10+ page threads about necromancers who go into death shroud and spam life blast.

I also enjoy good, hard duels. It is refreshing and you learn something from them. The type of fights I am referring to are not good, hard duels. They are duels where a class uses an unfun mechanic and regardless if the result is a win or loss or regardless of how long the fight lasts, the fight was not enjoyable.

Alt-F4 as a protest wow. Personally I see it as completely counter-productive. Your opponent isn’t going to ponder the strength of their build and see you as a crusader of fair play but rather interpret you as a bad who rage quit. Some will be left felling happy that they pushed you over the edge and others sad that you robbed them of a fight but I very much doubt any will consider there build choice.

The enjoyment from roaming for me comes from the danger, I could get rolled by a superior player, smashed by a superior build or uneven matchup, I could turn a corner and get ganked by a zerg and all of these things will frustrate me but without the downs the ups wouldn’t be worth anything.

How is playing a sceptre/torch Mesmer with endless clones and lots of invisibility skills abusing broken mechanic? They are perfectly legitimate skills and actually takes a fair bit if skill to use the build.

You say one thing but your just a bad loser, I come up against many necromancers some more skilled than others and I don’t really find them fun to fight but I certainly won’t alt f4 or refuse to fight them.

Anet left us Mesmer’s with very little options when it came to condition based builds because of whiners like you who come and rage on the forums because they can’t dominate every class.

Colly.4073:

Anet left us Mesmer’s with very little options when it came to condition based builds because of whiners like you who come and rage on the forums because they can’t dominate every class.

I am not “raging” because I cannot dominate your build. I am saying that it is an example of a build that is not fun for the opponent to play against.

With regards to Anet leaving you few options, I agree that the heart of the problem is there. But in the meantime, you have to stop ignoring the fact that certain builds just arent fun to fight. Again, it is independent of the skill of the player. Over time, you can tell when someone plays one of those builds well and when someone plays one of those builds poorly. It doesnt have to do with the skill of the player. I am not saying that the player playing that build is “less skilled” or that the build is carrying the player. What I am saying is that those builds use mechanics that are inherently not fun to play against as the opponent.

Artorias.4760:

Alt-F4 as a protest wow. Personally I see it as completely counter-productive. Your opponent isn’t going to ponder the strength of their build and see you as a crusader of fair play but rather interpret you as a bad who rage quit. Some will be left felling happy that they pushed you over the edge and others sad that you robbed them of a fight but I very much doubt any will consider there build choice.

How they decide to interpret the fact that I quit before fighting them is up to them. If they decide “that player sucks and rage quit”, that is their prerogative. There is not a rage component – it is a decision made at the beginning of the fight as soon as the type of build becomes apparent. It more so has to do with refusing to continue to engage in fights with builds that use mechanics that are not fun to fight against. I will not engage with someone like that when, after fighting many in the past, I know that regardless of the outcome, the experience of the fight will not be enjoyable.

If I don’t enjoy fighting them, I just kitten with them and make it not fun to fight me.

Sepreh.5924:

Recently, when I have come up against one of these builds when roaming, I will just alt-F4. I dont care if they get a bag or if I have to run back from spawn.

^ Ridiculous.

If anyone else feels the same, I urge you to just alt-F4 when you come up against these builds.

^Even more ridiculous.

Let’s me put this in a way that i might not get an infraction. L2P!
Just because you get your feelings hurt against certain class builds, do that mean you should ALT+F4 the game? No and Never! Learning to win and Learning to loose are two sides of the same coin and quite needed in this kind of games. kitten happens. Deal with it…

PS: I don’t have any of those “OP class builds” you are referring.

Find a new game end of discussion