Guild Wars 2

Since WvW has become defensive after this patch it has become extremely boring. The Arrow Cart meta that has instantly formed over this new patch has pretty much ruined open field fighting and makes it nearly impossible to take keeps. You may say “adapt and figure it out” but the only way to take keeps now is by using trebs. Rams are useless because of the AC buff. Catas too.

All that needs to be done is either limit the AC fire to only work if the AC itself has clear Line of Sight , or make ACs do no damage to siege. They are arrows anyway and shouldn’t be doing heaps of damage that they are doing right now to siege equipment such as rams.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

… They are arrows anyway and shouldn’t be doing heaps of damage that they are doing right now to siege equipment such as rams.

By that logic then Rangers, Thieves, and Warriors should not be able to harm Rams when pew pewing them with their ranged weapons.

NoxInfernus.2361:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

… They are arrows anyway and shouldn’t be doing heaps of damage that they are doing right now to siege equipment such as rams.

By that logic then Rangers, Thieves, and Warriors should not be able to harm Rams when pew pewing them with their ranged weapons.

yay logic . thanks man

I think they have to change the way ACs work. Obstacles should stop arrows. It is ridiculous that you can place ACs directly in front of a wall target the wall and hit targets behind the wall. ACs should work like other siege weapons launching projectiles: obstacles stop the projectiles.

Belenwyn.8674:

I think they have to change the way ACs work. Obstacles should stop arrows. It is ridiculous that you can place ACs directly in front of a wall target the wall and hit targets behind the wall. ACs should work like other siege weapons launching projectiles: obstacles stop the projectiles.

It’s called a trajectory.

It all depends on what trajectories anet allows. If you point an arrow straight up, then it will come straight back down.
So it is possible to hit something behind a wall even if the cart is on the other side. Just like a treb can be fired OVER a wall, so can arrows. Why people think a wall should block an projectile is beyond me.

See pic

Orochimaru.4730:

Belenwyn.8674:

I think they have to change the way ACs work. Obstacles should stop arrows. It is ridiculous that you can place ACs directly in front of a wall target the wall and hit targets behind the wall. ACs should work like other siege weapons launching projectiles: obstacles stop the projectiles.

It’s called a trajectory.

Nice explanation, Oro.
Gravity and physics. Math works!

Orochimaru.4730:

Belenwyn.8674:

I think they have to change the way ACs work. Obstacles should stop arrows. It is ridiculous that you can place ACs directly in front of a wall target the wall and hit targets behind the wall. ACs should work like other siege weapons launching projectiles: obstacles stop the projectiles.

It’s called a trajectory.

It all depends on what trajectories anet allows. If you point an arrow straight up, then it will come straight back down.
So it is possible to hit something behind a wall even if the cart is on the other side. Just like a treb can be fired OVER a wall, so can arrows. Why people think a wall should block an projectile is beyond me.

See pic

I know. But if you place the AC directly in front of the wall and aim to the wall. many trajectories should be blocked – especially targets far behind the wall should be unreachable.

Pic for those who can’t imagine the wall
(Paint FTW!)

Ofc you can shoot farther behind the wall if you have more power, but then you have to change the power and the trajectory, which is not in game yet. As mortar/cata/treb, you can only change the power (which will change the trajectory).

Bubi.5237:

Pic for those who can’t imagine the wall
(Paint FTW!)

Thanks Bubi. I wanted to post a similar picture.

As you can see the wall blocks all trajectories below 85°. Therefore only target on the wall or very close behind the wall are attackable. All targets far behind the wall are safe.

Is your monolith wall to scale? I can stand on one side of a wall and throw a ball over it to the other side.
However – you issue of an AC being set directly against the wall and targeting anything other than directly behind/on top of the wall is valid – it’s the ‘zoom hack’ that has still not been addressed.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

Is your monolith wall to scale? I can stand on one side of a wall and throw a ball over it to the other side.
However – you issue of an AC being set directly against the wall and targeting anything other than directly behind/on top of the wall is valid – it’s the ‘zoom hack’ that has still not been addressed.

It is not a zoom hack but more like a “wall hack” regarding the AC. You could place a catapult or a treb on the same place. In this case the wall would block many trajectories.

Yaks Bend players are extremely overjoyed with the changes and direction of WvW now.

I will continue to roam solo ignoring any and all changes Anet decides to implement…..this is my game kittenes

T raw.4658:

Yaks Bend players are extremely overjoyed with the changes and direction of WvW now.

They are the only server that uses siege, right? Because you should never use what the game gives you. Better stop using the food and utility buff…

Orochimaru.4730:

Belenwyn.8674:

I think they have to change the way ACs work. Obstacles should stop arrows. It is ridiculous that you can place ACs directly in front of a wall target the wall and hit targets behind the wall. ACs should work like other siege weapons launching projectiles: obstacles stop the projectiles.

It’s called a trajectory.

It all depends on what trajectories anet allows. If you point an arrow straight up, then it will come straight back down.
So it is possible to hit something behind a wall even if the cart is on the other side. Just like a treb can be fired OVER a wall, so can arrows. Why people think a wall should block an projectile is beyond me.

See pic

You seem to assume the ac is an arrowcart?

Its not.

Its a device that make AoE damage instantly happen at the target location by conjuring magical missiles from above with 100% accuracy all the time in 100% of the area. This is impossible with a trajectory, as that would be inherently inaccurate, especially just aiming “over there”.

So a wall can surely block it. With magic anything is possible. No need to show off fancypants physics here because the ac have none.

Problem:
New camera allows AC’s to shoot areas previously un-hittable. If you were on an AC and couldn’t hit zergs directly because you couldn’t see them (due to them being behind a wall or whatnot), well, you can now. Just change the vertical to max and…

Band-aid Fix:
1. AC, Treb, and Cata should lock in first person view.
2. ???
3. Fixed.

Real Fix:
1. Keep FOV slider.
2. Remove all other sliders… really do we need to slide horizontally. Or float 100m above our player. Do you expect players to play like that?
3. Done.

AC+new FOV making bad times in wvw. While the trajectory chart you made is all good, it doesn’t consider someone shouldn’t ever be able to see over said wall from the bottom of it.
AC’s need to be limited to LoS or made to Aim like projectile siege. One or the other Please ANET.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Since WvW has become defensive after this patch it has become extremely boring. The Arrow Cart meta that has instantly formed over this new patch has pretty much ruined open field fighting and makes it nearly impossible to take keeps. You may say “adapt and figure it out” but the only way to take keeps now is by using trebs. Rams are useless because of the AC buff. Catas too.

All that needs to be done is either limit the AC fire to only work if the AC itself has clear Line of Sight , or make ACs do no damage to siege. They are arrows anyway and shouldn’t be doing heaps of damage that they are doing right now to siege equipment such as rams.

How is the new camera “ruining open field fighting” ? Open field AC is working the same way as it did before FoV changes. The change is only affecting AC built in/near walls, because with the improved FoV you can target better. On open field you could target anything because there was no structure affecting the camera.

ACs are perfectly fine. What do you think an outnumbered server should use when defending a keep/tower against 3-4 times people than their own? Siege weapons are supposed to be used to one’s advantage and its not like there aren’t any counters. Eles’ AoEs can down an AC, a well placed ballista is a good counter, etc

NiloyBardhan.9170:

ACs are perfectly fine. What do you think an outnumbered server should use when defending a keep/tower against 3-4 times people than their own? Siege weapons are supposed to be used to one’s advantage and its not like there aren’t any counters. Eles’ AoEs can down an AC, a well placed ballista OS a good counter, etc

lol

NiloyBardhan.9170:

ACs are perfectly fine. What do you think an outnumbered server should use when defending a keep/tower against 3-4 times people than their own? Siege weapons are supposed to be used to one’s advantage and its not like there aren’t any counters. Eles’ AoEs can down an AC, a well placed ballista is a good counter, etc

lol

NiloyBardhan.9170:

ACs are perfectly fine. What do you think an outnumbered server should use when defending a keep/tower against 3-4 times people than their own? Siege weapons are supposed to be used to one’s advantage and its not like there aren’t any counters. Eles’ AoEs can down an AC, a well placed ballista is a good counter, etc

lol

As much as you guys want to lol, can you tell me a reliable method of how an outnumbered server can defend against a blob in uneven matchups without using siege? It might be OP, but in that case, the opponent also has few counters to it which they can take advantage of.

The bigger zerg has more supply, they can simply build AC to take out your AC/Treb/etc.. Before patch there were safe spots for your sieges, but now not even inner treb is safe, so…

They can’t balance the game based on outnumbered servers when it makes balance matchups terrible. ACs are cancer.

I was talking strictly in reference to OP stating "They are arrows anyway and shouldn’t be doing heaps of damage that they are doing right now to siege equipment such as rams. "

Their strength is just fine, but the problem here is the camera angle which I haven’t mentioned anything in regard to and I agree fully with the sentiment that current camera angles is kinda broken when you man AC.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

As much as you guys want to lol, can you tell me a reliable method of how an outnumbered server can defend against a blob in uneven matchups without using siege? It might be OP, but in that case, the opponent also has few counters to it which they can take advantage of.

Only if you can tell us a reliable method for how an outnumbered server can attack a defended keep in uneven matchups without using siege.

Argue about how arrowcarts can help outnumbered servers all you want, but the servers that are outnumbering them will always have many, many more. They are not static keep defenses like cannons, they can be built anywhere. Guess which server got tons of supplies to spend? Yeah. Its not the outnumbered one.

Arrowcarts balance nothing. They didnt do it when Anet buffed their damage by 100%+ when the WvW community wanted maybe 20% and they arent doing it now either.

Dawdler.8521:

NiloyBardhan.9170:

As much as you guys want to lol, can you tell me a reliable method of how an outnumbered server can defend against a blob in uneven matchups without using siege? It might be OP, but in that case, the opponent also has few counters to it which they can take advantage of.

Only if you can tell us a reliable method for how an outnumbered server can attack a defended keep in uneven matchups without using siege.

Argue about how arrowcarts can help outnumbered servers all you want, but the servers that are outnumbering them will always have many, many more. They are not static keep defenses like cannons, they can be built anywhere. Guess which server got tons of supplies to spend? Yeah. Its not the outnumbered one.

Arrowcarts balance nothing. They didnt do it when Anet buffed their damage by 100%+ when the WvW community wanted maybe 20% and they arent doing it now either.

Wait a sec…outnumbered or not, how can you take a keep without using siege at all? By PvD? lol

As for your 2nd paragraph a keep can hold upto 1,700 supplies which can be used efficiently for a successful defense. It’s not always that the blob always has more supplies to their disposal at any given time.

Like I stated before, AC strength is fine IMO. Other people may have other opinions and we can always agree to disagree

There is not a huge reason to place defensive siege now unless it’s manned like it is on AM/DL/Elona. The zeg comes, places one ac and all your siege can be gone in a matter of a minute with this fov. It’s not a very good tested change imo.

Belenwyn.8674:

Bubi.5237:

Pic for those who can’t imagine the wall
(Paint FTW!)

Thanks Bubi. I wanted to post a similar picture.

As you can see the wall blocks all trajectories below 85°. Therefore only target on the wall or very close behind the wall are attackable. All targets far behind the wall are safe.

The thing is, I’m not sure if this is how it actually works in the game (you may have meant to say that, I wasn’t sure).

For instance, if you look at this video, you can see the animation of the arrows traveling right through the wall, so the wall at least doesn’t seem to be impeding the AC:

I think the best solution for this would be, in addition to showing the green circle of where the arrows would land, the game should also show a green arc showing the arrow path through the air. That path could then turn red if it runs into an obstacle on the way, such as a wall, and prevent the player from firing. That way at least the game is enforcing some realistic limits on AC projectile pathing, similar to how it enforces realistic projectile pathing for trebs and catas. It’s still possible that ACs could be placed in such a way that they would be difficult for eles to hit, but at least they couldn’t be placed right next to a wall and still used effectively.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

As much as you guys want to lol, can you tell me a reliable method of how an outnumbered server can defend against a blob in uneven matchups without using siege? It might be OP, but in that case, the opponent also has few counters to it which they can take advantage of.

Niloy, the issue is, the change helps attackers much more than defenders. Previously your few valiant defenders could build and use siege safely behind a wall. The attackers only had limited ability to hit what they couldn’t see.

Now, an attacker with an AC near a wall can see and hit everything on or behind the wall in a huge area. So outnumbered defenders struggle to even get near walls once an offensive AC is up, let alone build siege or fight back. It makes defending with lesser numbers much more difficult.

BrickFurious.7169:

Belenwyn.8674:

Bubi.5237:

Pic for those who can’t imagine the wall
(Paint FTW!)

Thanks Bubi. I wanted to post a similar picture.

As you can see the wall blocks all trajectories below 85°. Therefore only target on the wall or very close behind the wall are attackable. All targets far behind the wall are safe.

The thing is, I’m not sure if this is how it actually works in the game (you may have meant to say that, I wasn’t sure).

We were discussing a theory about the real world, where Arrows have trajectory, mostly reacting to this

Gravity and physics. Math works!

So yes, we wanna nerf ACs a bit, either having ~real trajectory or disabling the new changes while on siege.

Xernth.8561:

NiloyBardhan.9170:

As much as you guys want to lol, can you tell me a reliable method of how an outnumbered server can defend against a blob in uneven matchups without using siege? It might be OP, but in that case, the opponent also has few counters to it which they can take advantage of.

Niloy, the issue is, the change helps attackers much more than defenders. Previously your few valiant defenders could build and use siege safely behind a wall. The attackers only had limited ability to hit what they couldn’t see.

Now, an attacker with an AC near a wall can see and hit everything on or behind the wall in a huge area. So outnumbered defenders struggle to even get near walls once an offensive AC is up, let alone build siege or fight back. It makes defending with lesser numbers much more difficult.

I agree completely with that, but I did write earlier that I do NOT disagree with the camera angle in the OP. My post was completely directed towards the strength of AC arrows on siege stuffs like rams as mentioned in the OP.

AC’s were not a problem until the user could better manipulate the camera.
For years everyone has been complaining about the camera.
Fix it, Fix it…
… you broke it, you broke it.

This community complains way too much.

Hey! i know! Buy the xpac and all will be better! Right? Right…?

Joking aside, this FOV thing has flatly broken WvW for the reasons stated over and over in here. A large group can AC all of the defensive positions in a space and roll the other side even faster than before. Good job.

Think of all the money we now save from not having to fort our towers and keeps. We will all be rich.

yeah ACs need nerf but shadowstep and teleport spamming noobs are totally acceptable eh ?

How about changing the arrow cart targeting more akin to the other sieges and control where they aim with 4 skills that basically move the aoe targeting over the ground to thr location you want it to be shooting at? That way FoV doesn’t matter too much. Ofcourse you might lose track of the targeting circle I suppose. (Unless they make ita large bpillar or beacon of light)

(It would become impossible to shoot under anything however… hmmm idk)

Branden Gee.2150:

While there are certainly bugs with the new camera (It is in Beta after all).

You can find a living list here.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestion-player-camera-improvements/page/6#post4891382

What you are describing is not a bug with the camera.

Give it up ppl. A dev responded in a other thread (general discussion). I suggest all servers stop upgrading and take a break from wvw for a few weeks..

NiloyBardhan.9170:

As much as you guys want to lol, can you tell me a reliable method of how an outnumbered server can defend against a blob in uneven matchups without using siege? It might be OP, but in that case, the opponent also has few counters to it which they can take advantage of.

Your supposed to fight them in the open silly, It doesn’t matter if your only 3 and they’re 20. Open field fights are always the best right? Come down from the tower and fight so everyone can have a great time.

You can do this now….

Did you had Any thought when increasing the fov ? Did you test this in wvw ? Is this how it’s supposed to be now ? Its a kittening joke.

I GOT IT!!!!!! how about make AC’s only damage players? kinda like the catapult tweak they put in.

might be a good compromise that would be easy to implement, ‘cause I don’t want to see them go overboard on the “no line of sight” thing, especially with the new camera modes.

Caedmon.6798:

You can do this now….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMocOT_O6ig

Did you had Any thought when increasing the fov ? Did you test this in wvw ? Is this how it’s supposed to be now ? Its a kittening joke.

You cannot see the targeting – show me one from the AC where you can target previously unreachable places, please.

Caedmon.6798:

You can do this now….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMocOT_O6ig

Did you had Any thought when increasing the fov ? Did you test this in wvw ? Is this how it’s supposed to be now ? Its a kittening joke.

Not gonna lie, I laughed pretty hard. As if wall defending wasn’t enough of a hazard. WvWvW is so far from being relevant it’s comical now.

I have a idea. Let’s just take all seige out and focus on fighting like wvw should be.

Belenwyn.8674:

I think they have to change the way ACs work. Obstacles should stop arrows. It is ridiculous that you can place ACs directly in front of a wall target the wall and hit targets behind the wall. ACs should work like other siege weapons launching projectiles: obstacles stop the projectiles.

But they are magic arrows !

holy meep thats daft , the wall really needs to block Acs that are planted that close / collision detection for Ac arrows.

T raw.4658:

Yaks Bend players are extremely overjoyed with the changes and direction of WvW now.

I will continue to roam solo ignoring any and all changes Anet decides to implement…..this is my game kittenes

LOL, Thought the same thing. Have fought lots of servers, never seen one so bad about hiding behind ac and siege.

tym.3791:

T raw.4658:

Yaks Bend players are extremely overjoyed with the changes and direction of WvW now.

I will continue to roam solo ignoring any and all changes Anet decides to implement…..this is my game kittenes

LOL, Thought the same thing. Have fought lots of servers, never seen one so bad about hiding behind ac and siege.

I guess you’ve yet to face Tarnished Coast then. :o

Tiffany.8576:

tym.3791:

T raw.4658:

Yaks Bend players are extremely overjoyed with the changes and direction of WvW now.

I will continue to roam solo ignoring any and all changes Anet decides to implement…..this is my game kittenes

LOL, Thought the same thing. Have fought lots of servers, never seen one so bad about hiding behind ac and siege.

I guess you’ve yet to face Tarnished Coast then. :o

Or even better JQ not only do they hide behind it , they drag it into the field and make forests of it.

Middzz.1490:

Tiffany.8576:

tym.3791:

T raw.4658:

Yaks Bend players are extremely overjoyed with the changes and direction of WvW now.

I will continue to roam solo ignoring any and all changes Anet decides to implement…..this is my game kittenes

LOL, Thought the same thing. Have fought lots of servers, never seen one so bad about hiding behind ac and siege.

I guess you’ve yet to face Tarnished Coast then. :o

Or even better JQ not only do they hide behind it , they drag it into the field and make forests of it.

/snicker

:3