Guild Wars 2

Just a thought on the scouting. Maybe you could add mounted telescopes that would improve the ability to see from the towers/keeps/castles, either as an always on thing at certain points, or as something that could be built at any location(even outside the towers) like siege. Then interacting with and/or building the telescope could somehow be used as a way to determine credit/reward.

Please do NOT remove the white swords notification. This only benefits large servers that are able to place a scout in every camp/tower. Without the swords, NSP will have no chance at holding things, especially when facing high pop servers that can take large objectives in a matter of minutes. We don’t have the numbers to constantly keep eyes on things. High pop servers do NOT need another advantage over us!

REMOVE PvD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It sucks when your trying to defend, using siege disablers and Ac’s taking out rams but then they just melt the gate using player vs door! Even with the gate at full HP its not a problem for the zerg to just auto attack it down. A zerg should not be able to take a tower/keep/castle without even using siege Its frustrating and needs to be removed.

Nidome.1365:

I have a question – Why can’t Tower/Keep workers carry out repairs using the supply in store?

Because that would drain supplies as soon as someone tapped the gate (min 2 supplies). It work like this one EotM towers and it isn’t good.

So, I’m in a server, that’s T9. Yes, that’s right. We already have a problem that the people who actually like this part of the game and are good at it are changing to better servers. This is super frustrating. We normally do not have people for scouting. As some people here have suggested, it would be better if defending/scouting would have better rewards, it would make it so much more interesting. Now, you scout, get nothing except killed before your team mates arrive…

Removing white swords would be bad, and would make it impossible for some of us. I mean in the tournament we got wiped by a T6 server. So badly, that there was no point to play. You got killed just stepping out of your safe zone. This doesn’t really encourage anyone to play. And if this had happened to me when I started, I probably would’ve thought wvw is not for me. Well, many in my server do.

Just please, don’t make it even harder! I don’t want to change servers, but if this comes to pass, it’s pretty much either a change of server or quitting wvw for me. Because it doesn’t matter how good you are if there are 10 players to your 1 on the enemy server…

Perfect !

with 5 men we can reset a keep with no one inside !
We play like thief , stealh attack where no one think it s possible !

Our guild will still upgrading our tower and keep and eye on it . I hope other guild will do the same with their tower.

Olvendred.3027:

The Outnumbered buff only applies to population on that map. The other three maps might be fully queued, for all the game knows. Certainly, it says nothing about overall server WvW population at any point in time.

Correct, and I think irrelevant from a defending perspective, since you can’t see white swords from another map, either. Note that I doubt this will eliminate swords on waypoints, which is what you currently can see from other maps and there is no delay on them. I’ve notified the people on a map that a waypointed keep was under attack… from another map.

Olvendred.3027:

Also, if you tie any substantive benefits to the Outnumbered buff, it just encourages elitist guild groups trying to harass all other players off the map, so they can get the benefits for themselves.

I was thinking of this from a defender’s perspective where I think there would still be little net benefit to being deliberately outmanned, but a later reply giving a detailed scenario of how an attacker might abuse this makes me now believe that it would never be a good idea to remove swords entirely. I still don’t see much of a problem with removing the delay for white swords when the defender is Outmanned, though. There is already no delay on waypoint swords.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Seriously. As a defender, I don’t need a “stronger role”. The commanders already take me seriously. How about a few rewards for my role? Even I can only scout for so long before I want to go for a run too, but there is no one to take my place.

It cost me about 5 gold today to spend the day running dolyaks and upgrades and building siege (not counting the cost of the blueprints) instead of running with our offensive force capturing things.

Heibi.4251:

It would also allow superior forces to coordinate to have minimal forces go in and figure out the outnumber buff. Then, after making sure they keep outnumbered, knock down the walls, open all the gates or whatever, before calling in the horde to take everything quickly without swords popping until the very last second. Imagine 5 players using catas on 5 different targets. Right as they knock down the wall to inner bay, hills and 3 towers they call in the zerg. The zerg splits into 5 groups and they take all five targets within seconds. I can only imagine seeing 2 keeps and 3 towers all changing color simultaneously.

While in practice the Outnumbered buff seems to be fairly fluid as players enter and leave the game and I think it would be hard to predict it reliably, I think this is a perfectly legitimate criticism and I can imagine something like this happening (earlier today, we set up a many-trebuchet breach of a SMC and I called in an off-map guild group as the outer walls went down). So you are right. No swords is probably never a good idea, so I retract that part of my suggestion.

My initial reaction to removing white swords was, WTH? Yet, I can see where they may want to do this to increase an objectives turnover rate in the upper tiers. We should ask ourselves, are keeps not flipping for days, sometimes not even once the entire week adding fun? Conversely, removing swords would thin out players by dramatically increasing the need for scouting. Though shouldn’t scouting be alleviated to the point of being removed? It has to be one of the worst parts of WvW game play now.

Maybe add EotM style Sentries as part of the upgrade to towers and keeps? This way you’d only need scouts until the objective is upgraded. Placing more importance on upgrading and upgrading quickly.

To all the people concerned about thining out their ressources when the white swords are removed and more scouting is necessary.
as long as scouting isn’t rewarded properly, only a handfull of hardcore defensive players will do it.
so this change will turn wvw even more into a permanent karma train.

John Corpening.9847:

Removing white swords from objectives to give defenders a stronger role in alerting their team as well as giving attackers more of a chance to get through having their siege disabled.

Now you guys are doing it again and poking in something that is already working. I like most of the changes mentioned, but sometimes you guys just overdoing it and we have to roll with it and live with the frustration for a few months until you realize this was really bad move.

The white crosses are not only there for attackers, when i join a border i open my map and run to the point were i see white crosses to defend it. If i can not see were it is contested there will be even harder for defenders to keep it. The crosses also tell defenders were the enemies are moving, so that we can gather and focus on that path to stop them.

Please don’t make changes that most of us players never asked for. WvW is already having so much issues right now, so don’t add more.

PPK is just going to encourage larger servers to run as one big group instead of having smaller groups run around and control more of the map. Full 100 man groups aren’t fun to play in or play against. A good part of WvWvW is trying to coordinate all of your groups together to take a heavily defended keep or tower. We might see servers win purely off kills and no objectives.

Although a much needed change PPK might need to be implemented a different way.

Maybe a guild buff that grants PPK while in proximity, that way when all servers have left is their garrison they have some way of getting points so they aren’t blown out with no hopes of coming back.

As for the white swords if you do remove them, allow scouts to sound an alarm or something of the sort to make the white swords appear (Would probably need to be an upgrade). Then scouts can be given a bigger reward towards the success of a defence of a keep or tower. Such as more experience, karma and gold (probably just more silver).

~Just my two cents

Oh please, this whole thing of devs going wvw was a big joke. Going only in blobby servers (no offense to anyone) just doesn’t show the real/whole status&problems of WvW.

And btw, what kind of joke feedback these devs had from? Lowering the n° of rally? Removing white swords? (well no surprise there, as anet totally incite to go mindless blobby style). Like seriousely, is that what you think WvW needs the most?

The name on building sites and the nerf on disablers are good things, but the question is: was it needed to send devs to understand such obv things? No. Just like acc spread tag and additional colors: it’s not that you did an awesome feature, its that you made a feature that was supposed to exist since way earlier.

Still no acc shared blueprints, you can’t kick people from your own golems, you need to stop and type /supplyinfo every dam time to check supplies, green keep WG is paper even at T3, and i don’t know how many silly things of WvW that needs fix/improvement i could still be able to type.

I don’t know where you sent those devs, but they surely learned like 0 of WvW real problems & co.

Being on a US T1 server, this is probably the worst idea ever…
Seeing what people are saying about EU, it’s apparently like lower tier NA, and I can see this completely screwing over every tier. Yes, it will give the losing servers opportunities to try to snipe objectives. But the servers that already steam roll in their match-ups will mostly likely be able to provide many more scouts than their opponents due to population imbalance… And for those same servers that steam roll their match-ups, they will also be able to just karma train any battlegrounds they go to without any opposition, save the few towers/keeps (most likely keeps) that ARE being sentried. Whoever thought about this obviously didn’t flesh out the idea enough because this will only continue to imbalance WvW and provide more incentive for people to continue stacking Stackgate or whatever servers on EU that are the equivalent.

After the Adopt-a-Dev BS I would like to see a list of how many admins went to which servers and what content they were looking to get more perspective on.

Also, Berk is making many great points in this thread that devs should REALLY be reading.

John Corpening.9847:

Hello!

Removing white swords from objectives to give defenders a stronger role in alerting their team as well as giving attackers more of a chance to get through having their siege disabled. We are also going to test out awarding points per kill. PPK was part of the scoring discussion and something we wanted to try. We will be looking for your feedback on that change after it goes live.

John

How about some feedback now, John?

I’m curious how much stronger of a role you need me to play as a defender/scout? Coming from a low population, bronze server, I’m curious which of the following roles aren’t broad enough:

Spending most of my gold buying, upgrading, and placing siege.

Spending the rest of my gold upgrading keeps and towers.

Spending a lot of my time building siege in those towers.

Spending the rest of my time running from keep to keep and tower to tower just so that I can refresh that siege and upgrade those structures.

Occasionally see some swords (that you’d apparently like to take away) that tell me what place I should look in on next, so that I can give the alarm moments too late for anyone to do anything.

Get a pittance of rewards versus someone who is k-training in a zerg somewhere. (This is my personal favorite. It’s actually made me rich. Selling off all those unnecessarily large inventory bags I’d crafted was a huge windfall. The quartermaster at every tower and keep will certainly appreciate it.)

As to PPK, I guess at some point I will be the scoring king, since it seems on the face of it that servers who bunker in their towers and keeps with siege-capped arrow carts and don’t ever come out to fight have been doing it right. If there’s one thing scouting on a small server has done for me, it’s shown me the value of huddling inside trying to kill a larger force with an arrow cart. Perhaps due to your changes, the rest of my server can join me for max score, yeah?

I’m Glad to hear that you feel the adopt a dev scheme has worked really well. As a guild we have enjoyed having the company of a Dev (or two) with us and simply playing along and living the guild life in wvw as we do. The experience was equally as positive for us.

I am though rather worried as to what some Devs may have brought back from their experiences. Removing white swords? Obviously this idea didn’t come out of thin air and there must have been some discussion concerning this. I would ask you once again to pull on the experiences that the Devs had (or are still having) in their wvw guilds. Ask these your devs to really ask what guild leaders and guilds think of this idea before implementing it.

You have created the ideal base now to have discussion, the devs have been accepted and are loved and respected in their guilds, trust them to bring you back the right info on game changes.

Yeah i’ll jump on the already populated enough train of thought with the white swords – Not a very good “balance” for less populated servers. Maybe find a happy medium and remove them from keeps only? Meaning that if you have a t3 wped keep you’d know when it’s contested regardless considering the wp so more initiative for upgrading those but i’d keep white swords on everything else.

What are you expecting guys, i’m quite sure that 80% of the Devs that was part of Adopt-a-Dev this is their first time playing WvW.
They just don’t have dedicated WvW team, if they do, they wont come up with this kind of ideas.
The truth is, WvW can’t be fix, not with this Devs and not the way they try to do it, piece by piece.
Every time they try to fix one thing, they break other two.Anet should hire 4 or 5 guys with PvP and Open world PvP experience because right now they don’t have even one.
They should get rid of PPT sistem completely and to think of something new, something that can keep the drama between the servers, no drama=people get bored /removing the Match-up forum was HUGE mistake/.
Fixing WvW takes full shut down, and start over with people who know what they are doing, but i dont think, this is going to happen, ever.

One more thing, Anet alway say how hard is to find a way to reward the people who are scouting towers and keeps, actually its very easy, put an option on the tower/keep Lord, you go to the Lord you talk with him and he gives you buff /like count down/ 2 people per tower, 4 people per keep thats the max number of people that can scout at the same time per object, but put an area around the object if they leave this area they lose the buff.Afer they are done scouting they go back to the Lord they talk with him again and lets say they have scout this object for 1 hour for this 1 hour they take X amount of experience, X amount of gold/silver, X amount of something else whatever you like to give em more.
I don’t know if someone else came up with this idea, but i think it’s easy and doable, i also love to see some comments from both players and Devs.

morrolan.9608:

John Corpening.9847:

Removing white swords from objectives to give defenders a stronger role in alerting their team as well as giving attackers more of a chance to get through having their siege disabled.

This would be a mistake.

Agreed.

Might have 70 people on the map, but only 5 of them care enough to scout and report to comm why there was swords in the first place and after lord rezzing was disabled it would be nice to hold onto what little defense we have left available: Siege disablers and white swords.

By taking away white swords, we would be left with siege disablers… How useful would siege disablers be if towers were being flipped before anyone had a chance to even scout it.

(edit)- Did the Devs join WvW focused guilds and the WvW communities or did they join PvE/PvX guilds for adopt-a-dev?

John Corpening.9847:

Removing white swords from objectives to give defenders a stronger role in alerting their team as well as giving attackers more of a chance to get through having their siege disabled.

Facepalm!

Some low population server can only rally 5-8 people on non-primtime hours. Our keeps will get stolen so easily now. There’s no need to upgrade anything anymore.

Curse Drew.8679:

Some low population server can only rally 5-8 people on non-primtime hours. Our keeps will get stolen so easily now. There’s no need to upgrade anything anymore.

Correct and I think that’s what they want. The more I think about it, the only conclusion I can come up with is they want greater turnover. Greater turnover is economically more rewarding. Maybe they are hoping WvW would attract a wider player base is stuff flip’s more like EotM does? Maybe they have a new reward system they are keeping quiet to surprise us with? I don’t know, I’m just trying to make sense of it.

DeWolfe.2174:

Curse Drew.8679:

Some low population server can only rally 5-8 people on non-primtime hours. Our keeps will get stolen so easily now. There’s no need to upgrade anything anymore.

Correct and I think that’s what they want. The more I think about it, the only conclusion I can come up with is they want greater turnover. Greater turnover is economically more rewarding. Maybe they are hoping WvW would attract a wider player base is stuff flip’s more like EotM does? Maybe they have a new reward system they are keeping quiet to surprise us with? I don’t know, I’m just trying to make sense of it.

Flipping objectives may provide more champ bags, but it’s also more boring.

I constantly look for swords because defending gives our group an advantage in a fight. If our group catches the enemy group off gaurd on the rams, we can usually always wipe them, even when they have more players. If we are really outnumbered then we go inside tower/keep to seige up, use disabler, and try to scare them off.

With 5-8 people we don’t have eyes everywhere. Defending is a matter of stategy, and in my opinion defending is more exciting then flipping boring towers over and over.
WvW is about the fights, if players want champ bags they can go to PvE.

Lauree Akhtar.3205:

Hey guys!

I wasn’t able to make an introduction post due to not having a proper shiny account, but I’d like to thank Hordes of Denravi of HoD for the great time I’ve had! I hadn’t played WvW prior to this and it was a super cool experience to run with the guild, learn the ropes, and get their amazing feedback on the game! It’s been a grand time and I look forward to my continued WvW playing.

Waitwut, a producer that hasnt played its own game for like 2 years?? Proves you guys have no clue what you going to do when removing swords.

Im a cook for 12+ years now and it would be very very silly if people asked me what ingredients i use and i shrug “Hm dunno, never cared to look it up”.

One other purpose that white swords can serve is a probe or a a distraction. A single player can knock on a door to create white swords to (A) see what the defender response is and (B) to draw defender attention to an objective to draw them away from the real objective. There is a psychological game that can be played with the things that can be seen on the map — white swords, dolyaks, sentry flags, and so on.

Further, white swords also reward disciplined groups that can take out guards, build a bunch of siege weapons, and scrape siege without tagging the gate or walls to draw the swords until the are ready to use catapults or rams en masse to quickly take the walls or gate down once the attack starts. Pick up groups rarely pull this off (someone won’t understand not to hit the gate or will do so by mistake) but disciplined groups with good communication can and do pull this off.

Berk.8561:

One other purpose that white swords can serve is a probe or a a distraction. A single player can knock on a door to create white swords to (A) see what the defender response is and (B) to draw defender attention to an objective to draw them away from the real objective. There is a psychological game that can be played with the things that can be seen on the map — white swords, dolyaks, sentry flags, and so on.

Further, white swords also reward disciplined groups that can take out guards, build a bunch of siege weapons, and scrape siege without tagging the gate or walls to draw the swords until the are ready to use catapults or rams en masse to quickly take the walls or gate down once the attack starts. Pick up groups rarely pull this off (someone won’t understand not to hit the gate or will do so by mistake) but disciplined groups with good communication can and do pull this off.

We should adopt a dev to run with us roamers/defenders since they have zero understanding how their own game works. I have quoted a producers reply in this topic saying he/she hasnt played this game mode before the adopt a dev. Says pretty much they dont know about WvW.

Just popping on to say I support PPK and can’t wait!

By the way, here is an actual example of an uplevel getting map chat abuse in WvW. I expect PPK to make this worse.

Ok i posted new scenario for WvW in one New topic … after seen that i’ll play PvE….

Offair.2563:

Berk.8561:

One other purpose that white swords can serve is a probe or a a distraction. A single player can knock on a door to create white swords to (A) see what the defender response is and (B) to draw defender attention to an objective to draw them away from the real objective. There is a psychological game that can be played with the things that can be seen on the map — white swords, dolyaks, sentry flags, and so on.

Further, white swords also reward disciplined groups that can take out guards, build a bunch of siege weapons, and scrape siege without tagging the gate or walls to draw the swords until the are ready to use catapults or rams en masse to quickly take the walls or gate down once the attack starts. Pick up groups rarely pull this off (someone won’t understand not to hit the gate or will do so by mistake) but disciplined groups with good communication can and do pull this off.

We should adopt a dev to run with us roamers/defenders since they have zero understanding how their own game works. I have quoted a producers reply in this topic saying he/she hasnt played this game mode before the adopt a dev. Says pretty much they dont know about WvW.

This pretty much seems to be the case. Our server had a dev, and we got to talk with him on comms, and he seemed like a pretty nice guy and was interested in what was going on. Shame I only recall seeing him a couple of times during the first week of fall tourney, and then never again. No idea what became of him; we’re a low pop server and it might have been nice had he had the time to stick around and see what goes on when you’re mostly composed of small groups and roamers.

For the ppk: sometimes we fight in a full upgraded thing close to the spawn. I gain 200 kills but we must to retreat because the enemy just come and come and finaly they win. Now maybe they win but we will gain as much pont as the objective makes within hours because we killed hundreds.
Quality over quantity? Yes pls

I am 100% for PPK over PPT see previous suggestion:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Scoring-Discussion/page/7#post4487356

However, please be ware that PPK will only work if PPT is removed completely, otherwise your regular night capping server will PvD every map late at night until they have a considerable lead and avoid going out into open field and start hiding behind walls for rest of the week, not giving you the opportunity to take points off them through PPK only through their fully sieged structures, in which they will probably get more points from you than them, giving night capping servers an even bigger advantage.

It needs to be PPK ONLY, no PPT at all.

Removing the White Swords is a total Disaster even in the top Tiers. because removing white swords would remove almost any chance to save a Tower or keep, including your Garrison, unless you have scouts at every location. A typical map would require anywhere from 4 to 15 people to scout, and that doesn’t include camps.

its hard enough to get 4 people to scout, much less 15, and 15 people is a significant portion of manpower. In addition to no loot or reward while scouting. People want to Fight and they want to take objectives, not sit in a Tower scouting for long periods of time.

Even on the top tier servers, it will degenerate into karma trains, and the eventual end of WvW because why sit in a Tower for an hour when I get rewards for taking one?

The white swords serve multiple useful purposes. Everything from distractions to early warning to blocking a Waypoint. There is already a lot of scouting done in the game, please don’t make this worse.

This would also remove a lot of the tactics the players use to take objectives as now all you have to do is find where there is no scout, and you take a Waypointed keep. People won’t scout more because you remove the white swords, if anything they will scout less, because its freaking boring!

Twinny.9304:

I am 100% for PPK over PPT
It needs to be PPK ONLY, no PPT at all.

Thank god only very few have this mindset. WvW is about collective strategy, fights, assault and defense with siege and what not. If you play WvW purely for kills i suggest you PvP, GvG in OS and such. Or might as well just go play CoD4.

DomAltares.8651:

How about some feedback now, John?

I’m curious how much stronger of a role you need me to play as a defender/scout? Coming from a low population, bronze server, I’m curious which of the following roles aren’t broad enough:

Spending most of my gold buying, upgrading, and placing siege.

Spending the rest of my gold upgrading keeps and towers.

Spending a lot of my time building siege in those towers.

Spending the rest of my time running from keep to keep and tower to tower just so that I can refresh that siege and upgrade those structures.

Occasionally see some swords (that you’d apparently like to take away) that tell me what place I should look in on next, so that I can give the alarm moments too late for anyone to do anything.

This.

It’s already hard enough to get people to upgrade and siege things and with this update it will be even harder because us on the smaller servers will have no chance to defend our stuff.

I can see it being an interesting change on the big servers where you have alot of people on at all times but for everyone else this is a really bad idéa(Except for Vabbi, cause they’ll nightcap like never before ).

I know for sure that if this happens UW will be karma trained 24/7 and even more ppl will transfer away from us to bigger servers.

Devs, I hope you reconsider before it kills bronze league wvw.

Kungsmurfen.2861:

Devs, I hope you reconsider before it kills bronze league wvw.

Maybe we shouldn’t assume the goal isn’t to kill Bronze League?

Well even the T1 servers don’t always have the man power to put people in towers and scout them. We just don’t, most of the time those people are needed elsewhere to deal with the 60 vs 20’s that happen at some hours of the day. T1 is not as glorious as you might think, last night I had to lead a garrison defense with four people and we got steam rolled 50 v 4. The white swords at least notified us that someone was attacking garri and allowed us to try and do something about it.

John Corpening.9847:

Removing white swords from objectives to give defenders a stronger role in alerting their team as well as giving attackers more of a chance to get through having their siege disabled.

Uh huh. Giving defenders a stronger role in alerting their team. Makes zero sense. Have defenders somehow been crying that they have no opportunity to “alert their team” and I have not heard about it? Defending sucks. And now it will suck more because people will be forced to stay in keeps and towers for hours and hours doing… nothing. I will love to watch all those outmanned bl’s- you know the ones? Where the few people there struggle to keep up? But hey at least there are white swords, time enough to call another bl or EB to come help. But ya, no more. That would make too much sense. But it is a good way to lower the morale of the people who do try to defend border lands. I mean, even more than it already is.

Hey, at least the Halloween events will be starting so we can ignore WvW being handed over to the bigger servers. And then we can ignore it even more on Nov 4. WvW will become a terrible place to be with the proposed change in the white swords. The smaller servers might try to take advantage of it, but the larger severs WILL find/pay someone to stay in a tower or keep. Here comes the karma train Trick-or-Keep.

On the Ready UP last friday there was a part of video where devs where speaking about their expirience during this project etc etc

when/where can we see that full video? Really looking forward for it and i didn’t understood from the boys in video when it’s gonna happen.

Thanks in advarance

Heibi.4251:

Hey, at least the Halloween events will be starting so we can ignore WvW being handed over to the bigger servers. And then we can ignore it even more on Nov 4. WvW will become a terrible place to be with the proposed change in the white swords. The smaller servers might try to take advantage of it, but the larger severs WILL find/pay someone to stay in a tower or keep. Here comes the karma train Trick-or-Keep.

I’m Agree!
Two possible ways from here:
1. Force the players to defend (not enjoyble) Im forced to play not to choose how or where i want to play…(more ppl will leave WvW) is it so hard to make defending more rewarding and to leave the swords… Bronze league depends on them…
2. The train is about to leave the station….
Chu chu, ALL aboard next stop Borderlands, last stop Eternal Battlegrounds. Chu Chu…. (We don’t need another EotM)
One good thing:
Still have Events for Halloween and Christmas is coming….

Don’t Think removing White sword is good, change it so they only come if gate/wall is attacked is fine do.

Change so servers only get points when activity happens, defending building, capping building, kills and so on.

And bring back banner lord, that made fights a lot longer and harder for the attackers.

Aaaaand this is exactly why you should have sent more than 1 dev into the lower tiers.

If you make this change, My walking up to keeps and weakening the walls with an omega golem or catapult will become my walking up to keeps, breaking down both walls, and getting 1-2 other people to come take the keep with me.

If you plan on doing something like this you need to balance it with a hint from DAOC, Hourly guild influence buffs. Strengthen the guards, Double the guards. Guild call out from guards etc. This would give WvW guilds a reason to have influence beyond you know, +5. Make it expensive. Make a call out from the guards when attacked 500-1000 inf an hour. It would be totally worth it.

Screw swords, make guilds take the responsibility they should be taking in Guild Wars.

You want a WvW gold sink? There it is. Want a Gem sink for WvW? Guild Bugle, Detailed call outs on numbers, gate direction from guards for 4 hours. 400 gems. I promise that sells like hot cakes.

WvW gets 3rd place in this game because you haven’t figured out how to monetize it. Well there it is. I can pay gems/inf for scouting. Done.

What most guilds want is fights. Scouting is a key to fights. On low tier servers you cant even pay 1g an hour for good clean scouting reports. I know this because we tried. We have a TS whisper list for defensive call outs. We have a commander whisper list for driver to driver call outs. We have giant flares that we put up in the sky like the bat g-d kitten signal. In low tier servers call outs don’t happen because nobody wants to waste the time standing at something that might not even get attacked for 2-3 hours.

So, Screw Swords. Make us pay for something else with a lot more data.

“5 people have attacked south bay gate scout”

“4 people have attacked SE wall archer”

“ram hitsgate ram hits gate ram hits gate ram hits gate”.

Oh wow 4 rams big fight lets go.

No white swords is a horrible idea. I don’t understand why you’d want to dumb down the game. It isn’t that hard to read the map today, and it works well.

style.6173:

No white swords is a horrible idea. I don’t understand why you’d want to dumb down the game.

Wait, wait. You call that “dumbing down the game”? Sorry but no, this will do exactly the opposite thing. However – I dare any dev to try scouting a tower for an extended period of time, then say “well it was cool, I had fun”. This is just not gameplay. And they want to force it to people if they want to be able to defend any structures. Genuises. Freaking genuises. Hey, let me go all sarcastic on them:

“We know scouting is a chore – annoying, boring, not fun and expensive and there are barely any people with their right mind that would scout. That is why, we will FORCE people to scout. If they don’t want to put that hard effort, which will make them wish they were doing homework or watching paint dry, well duuuuuh, their server better join the karma train. This is a real war, serious business, and in real wars you do sentry duties, which aren’t fun. kitten fun!”

Twinny.9304:

I am 100% for PPK over PPT see previous suggestion:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Scoring-Discussion/page/7#post4487356

However, please be ware that PPK will only work if PPT is removed completely, otherwise your regular night capping server will PvD every map late at night until they have a considerable lead and avoid going out into open field and start hiding behind walls for rest of the week, not giving you the opportunity to take points off them through PPK only through their fully sieged structures, in which they will probably get more points from you than them, giving night capping servers an even bigger advantage.

It needs to be PPK ONLY, no PPT at all.

Night Capping? Oh you mean when players from the other side of the world log on….at day time.

“Removing white swords from objectives”
I did some scouting for my server, “for the higher interest” and so and – well it isn’t only not rewarding, it simply isn’t fun – and I think most of us are here to have some (especially out of prime-time). If you remove it on lower-lev servers (or even not-gold-top-3 servers : night-shift), towers and even Garri’s can cap literally in seconds if faced to a blob and our main zerg not prevented. Remember the times we made last-second-saves… well THATS an amazing reward ! Nerf siege-disablers or even make ‘em disappear but please don’t touch to the swords.
PPK : great idea, wvw should be muuuuch more interesting based on fights instead of circle-capping-ppt’ing…

Nedus.6952:

Twinny.9304:

I am 100% for PPK over PPT
It needs to be PPK ONLY, no PPT at all.

Thank god only very few have this mindset. WvW is about collective strategy, fights, assault and defense with siege and what not. If you play WvW purely for kills i suggest you PvP, GvG in OS and such. Or might as well just go play CoD4.

Read my other post and you will see that there will still be collective strategy, fights and defence with siege and what not. And not purely for PvP, GvG kils in the OS. Capping/Defending and upgrading will play the major part in it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Scoring-Discussion/page/7#post4487356

Let this be another voice repeating: Removing the “white swords” warning mechanic would be yet another advantage — like nearly every other change that has come down the pipe — for worlds with higher populations than their opponents. Being on the upside of a population imbalance is already a tremendous boon; no further assistance is needed.

I could see the PPK proposal going either way, and ultimately discussion prior to testing (I guess it’s just straight to implementation here) would tend to boil down to the speculative, which may be the bread-and-butter of the forum poster, but is ultimately without substance.

Maybe rewarding kills would encourage more people to come out and fight, and this would likely enliven the competition. It grows awful quiet on the fields some nights in Silver.

On the other hand, as others have noted, the fear of defeat having a real cost might well impel players to hide indoors even more than they already do. Heck, people run from us in the open field as it is, absent any real scoring implications.

Such a change might furthermore obliterate those occasions of late-in-the-shift messing around, tussling with spawn-campers or popping white swords deep in the enemy BL just to see who’s on the map — silly engagements wherein everyone on both sides tends to recognize that this war we’re having is just a game. PPK seems great when you’re picturing 20-a-side skill engagements, but not so much when you just want to see if your new build can solo a camp before responders come for you.