Guild Wars 2

I find it incredibly depressing that there are people on this forum who are playing in WvW that can’t understand why others would want to turn this buff off.

Well I can’t see why anyone would be against it anyway. If a few people decide to turn off their buffs and fight other people fairly, how does that affect you? What gives you the right to say whether or not people can have a fair fight with eachother if they want to?

/signed
/signed
/signed

Please ANet, realize that a lot of players don’t like this kind of stat buff. At least make it optional.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

How would it lessen the value of the buff? At this point, it just sounds like you’re making excuses. If it was optional to turn off, everyone wins.

Personally, I think the new buff ruins the spirit of fair open field fights. I don’t really want the buff, and I don’t want my guild to have the buff. It’s not fun winning or losing a fight because of something that happened outside of that fight.

My guess is GW2 just doesn’t support the ability for players to remove buffs from themselves. They aren’t going to recode something just for a few WvW players.

Then could you atleast make it so that the buff will be inactive on certain parts of the map so we still have some area where we can actually have fair fights? Or how about some sort of area like that jumping puzzle where we could go in and fight eachother and the buff wouldn’t be there?

Nikkinella.8254:

Vena.8436:

Aneu.1748:

I cant even understand why you would still be defending this…

Its probably physically impossible to disable.

How many buffs in this game do you know of that you can disable? Commander icons are the only thing I can even remotely think of, and that has a whole (bad) system designed to support it because, without one, how the heck would you re-enable the buff?

I seriously doubt that. In EQ you could just click on a buff and remove it if you wanted to and you have any idea how old that game is? It can’t be hard to put something like that in. They just don’t want to. There’s no reason why they couldn’t put that in for the people who do want it.

If you haven’t noticed, there’s a lot of things you can do in older MMOs that you can’t do in GW2 for some reason. Why would this be the exception?

Hostile tones from both sides, kittens about to go down.

Good luck to non-oceanic servers having any chance now from these orb buffs. Defending against 60+ every morning is bad enough. Defending 60+ with orb buffs(rip non-oceanic/sea servers)

I always here devs preaching about large scale battles, well you ruin any open field large scale battles/gvg with these stat boosts. Wheres the equal footing, why give huge coverage servers anymore bonuses.

RIP organized guild battles (since calling it “gvg” just brings out all sorts of hostility) something a lot of guilds enjoy the most.
RIP roaming/fight clubs another thing that is beloved by many.

Obviously sitting on an AC is the most fun you can have in wvw.

I still think the orb buff is a bad idea in general. Outmanned should have the stat buff and the orb should be a useless MF buff. Switch them around.

Nikkinella.8254:

I still think the orb buff is a bad idea in general. Outmanned should have the stat buff and the orb should be a useless MF buff.

This.

I don’t see what would be so hard about being allowed to remove the buff from yourself, that being said if roamers want to win fair fights remove a few of your accessories or something, people doing GvG fights could do the same thing. Is this how it should be? Hell no but if Anet isn’t willing to do something find your own way around it

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

It makes me sad that a game with such an astoundingly good core design is being kitten ed away so hard.

Devon, youre supposed to make a comunity like you, not hate you

How would a small group of people taking the buff off of themselves affect the server anyway? We aren’t asking to be able to remove the buff from everyone in the server, just from ourselves. If I don’t want to walk around with the buff on, I should have the option to turn it off. Why is that so difficult for you people to understand? It’s not affecting you in any way at all. You wont even see us because we’ll be in some out of the way location AWAY from all the zerging.

ParaldaWind.4523:

No, I don’t want the buff when I go 25v60. Or, more specifically, I don’t want them to have the buff. Hell, I don’t want to have the buff when I go 25v25, or 25v15, or 25v30.

You’re entering an unfair fight, and complain about it being unfair-er (yes, I realize the grammatical faux pas but it was intentional)? Why aren’t you using your superior 25 organized guild mates to neutralize the buff? Is field play and management not something you guys like? Just want to collide X into Y? The buff is roughly 1% of an additional player (per opponent present) (if they hold all three borderland buffs). Would you immediately resign yourselves if you faced off in 25vs61?

For example, we don’t GvG because it removes the whole aspect of geographical play where chokes, high ground, etc. This update, on purely map design, is like a chorus. The fact that capturing the buff almost necessitates the former geographical awareness, while pending on testing, seems like a positive to me.

Even if i didnt GvG and was a pug zerger i wouldnt want the buff. GW2 is supposed to be a game of skill not stats. The wvw team really doesnt seem to listen and are as stubborn as kitten even when they are doing everything their wvw base doesnt want.

Vena.8436:

ParaldaWind.4523:

No, I don’t want the buff when I go 25v60. Or, more specifically, I don’t want them to have the buff. Hell, I don’t want to have the buff when I go 25v25, or 25v15, or 25v30.

You’re entering an unfair fight, and complain about it being unfair-er (yes, I realize the grammatical faux pas but it was intentional)? Why aren’t you using your superior 25 organized guild mates to neutralize the buff? Is field play and management not something you guys like? Just want to collide X into Y? The buff is roughly 1% of an additional player (if they hold all three borderland buffs). Would you immediately resign yourselves if you faced off in 25vs61?

For example, we don’t GvG because it removes the whole aspect of geographical play where chokes, high ground, etc. This update, on purely map design, is like a chorus. The fact that capturing the buff almost necessitates the former geographical awareness, while pending on testing, seems like a positive to me.

This discussion does not really relate to the topic being discussed, people are asking to be able to remove the buff on themselves. If the enemy holds a point sure you can go attempt to remove the buff from them if you want fair fights. If your server holds the buff and you want to GvG or roam on an even playing field I don’t think it is possible to sabotage the points and lose the buff.

well now i gess people can stop making threads about this and thank you for the answer …ohh how i miss the days when people enjoyed games simply for what they are

Explain to me how a stat buff on you as a person will give you a sense of accomplishment? Yay I just killed these players while I had 150 on all those nice stats!
Aww yeah I totally outskilled them

Now on the other side, you as a 25 man group are up against 50 players, withotu a buff its a challange but if they have a buff, gl bro, will definatly be easy.
And yes its most likely that someone will have a 150 buff due to the way the matchups work right now and how they will work (nr 1 against nr 9)

snowballing from this is going to be huge and the sense of accomplishment is gone, yes you can say that you kiled someone with a buff but thats not going to happe nas much as the other 2 given examples.

This all is orientated to casuals and made to push off any hardcore pvpers which the area should attract, as thesep layers want fair and good fights.

Devon really man, listen to your community for once.

Basket of Boxes.1976:

If your server holds the buff and you want to GvG or roam on an even playing field I don’t think it is possible to sabotage the points and lose the buff.

True, it isn’t. But stop saying “roam” as if anyone expects to “roam” on even playing fields, you cannot expect fairness in open field PvP because you cannot control what the other 79+ people on your or your opponents team will do. When my guild roams, we don’t roam expecting exactly 8-10 people to show up and fight us and it is almost never going to happen where we have a fair fight one way or the other.

The only place that even playing field comes into play is in organized combat where external factors are kept out, ie what everyone here is talking about but keeps trying to label as something that it isn’t (that is to say, trying to throw in the word roaming, when we are clearly discussing GvGs). In this case, you can sabotage yourself by having the opposing team disable your buff without you stopping them… of course the rest of your server may not like that.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

Devon, it’s become quite resoundingly clear that the WvW ANET team do NOT understand the jewel in their crown, that is WvW open combat. By hook or crook you guys actually made an amazing fast paced, free flowing combat system – that you ARENT even aware of.

Open field combat is frankly amazing (when your servers aren’t lacking like kitten). You do nothing but shun this type of gameplay, revolving every single aspect/update about siege wars. You are either blind to what you have or just plain ignorant, obsessed with your vision of the game, when in reality what you gave the players is far superior to what you intend do deliver. Yet you keep making mind boggling changes that hinder any sort of balance, making everything revolve around zerging and siege. Hell you call coverage SKILL << congratulations.

You really should watch some videos of guilds in action, I am not even suggesting GvG videos (you can’t even bring yourself to say it) I’m talking guilds taking on the masses. Rewarding skill and teamwork taking on superior numbers. Now though, you want to give the servers with the most coverage 150 to each stat.

Please Devon Clarify what “vision” what “insight” there is to rewarding skill less easy moders stacking on the top servers, running in their giant blobs with even more stat bonuses?

Or in English, how about a statement on what is your vision of WvW. Please say sitting on an AC is still one of the most exciting things you’ve ever done, please.

Yours sincerely, one avid WvW open field combat loving Guild Leader.

Nightmare.8351:

Pretty much this. You’re all missing the point. WvW isn’t about ‘fair open field fights’. It isn’t about GvG. It’s not about individualism. It’s about the entire server cooperating to win against two other servers. If you get the option to take away that buff for the sole purpose of fair fights and small, even combat, then you aren’t helping your server. If that isn’t what you want, then go PvP.

Yes, I understand that PvP doesn’t allow the larger 15v15 or 20v20. Yes, I understand that it’s something that should at least be done. But it doesn’t belong in WvW, and band-aiding that onto WvW isn’t something that should happen.

The outstanding problem is that a significant amount of players have started playing WvW in their own way that’s a lot more fun than the way ANet wants it to be played. With every change they make that compromises the way these guild players play, resentment grows and the community fractures further. Something needs to be done, and the way Devon and the team are currently going about it is not the way to go.

It’s kinda sad how WvW development is being made. Back near launch with Habib, the updates didn’t come regularly, but we could kinda see that’s was due to low manpower. Even so they fixed what the community was asking the most, which was culling. Now the WvW dev team has doubled (according to ANet), and changes come out more often. And some of them are really good, (new map area, points for kills, etc).

But some ideas just don’t work, and I think it becomes pretty clear which ones, but it seems this is a plane on auto-pilot, once something is announced, there’s 0% chance that it will be changed due to community feedback. (Not to mention 50% of the posts that disagree with any of the updates get deleted or moved around)

The future of WvW could be really promising now that we can see there’s actually some development being done, if they could only take feedback. (An example of an outstanding type of developer would be Rocket, creator of Dayz, that is constantly listening to suggestions and making changes to his game, and they have a really small team, but you can see the effort they put into it)

But right now it’s just “this is MY game, you play how WE want” , there’s nothing wrong with focusing the path you’ve planned, but when there’s an option to follow that path and trying to listen to your entire player base with minor changes, and another path that completely destroys a community just because they can’t be bothered to add in some minor changes, it just feels like a train-wreck waiting to happen

Dranul.2094:

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

Devon, it’s become quite resoundingly clear that the WvW ANET team do NOT understand the jewel in their crown, that is WvW open combat. By hook or crook you guys actually made an amazing fast paced, free flowing combat system – that you ARENT even aware of.

Open field combat is frankly amazing (when your servers aren’t lacking like kitten). You do nothing but shun this type of gameplay, revolving every single aspect/update about siege wars. You are either blind to what you have or just plain ignorant, obsessed with your vision of the game, when in reality what you gave the players is far superior to what you intend do deliver. Yet you keep making mind boggling changes that hinder any sort of balance, making everything revolve around zerging and siege. Hell you call coverage SKILL << congratulations.

You really should watch some videos of guilds in action, I am not even suggesting GvG videos (you can’t even bring yourself to say it) I’m talking guilds taking on the masses. Rewarding skill and teamwork taking on superior numbers. Now though, you want to give the servers with the most coverage 150 to each stat.

Please Devon Clarify what “vision” what “insight” there is to rewarding skill less easy moders stacking on the top servers, running in their giant blobs with even more stat bonuses?

Or in English, how about a statement on what is your vision of WvW. Please say sitting on an AC is still one of the most exciting things you’ve ever done, please.

Yours sincerely, one avid WvW open field combat loving Guild Leader.

I think this really succinctly sums up the feelings of a lot of the community. We’re so defensive because we feel like we’re losing the fun of open field combat for a system that is less so. We’re fighting back because we actually enjoy this game and don’t want to see it go down this path. I hope ANet realizes this before it’s too late.

Luiz Swordbreaker.6547:

What is this gear you’re running that gives you 15000 Power/Precision/Though/Healing/Vitality? I’d like to buy it please.

You’re right! My apologies, 5%~10% on the stats where a build is actually specialized.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

No. It is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to ruin peoples enjoyment of the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would mean that people might find ways to enjoy the game which would lessen the value of the buff and completely invalidate the whole point.

There fixed it for ya kitten bag.

Dr Acula.3496:

There fixed it for ya kitten bag.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Why-is-there-hostility-towards-GvG/first#post2796188

And here we start to see examples of it.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

Yes. Thats why we want it to get rid of it.

Also to say it is not a possibility is saying you’re unable to change a few lines of code.

As a reminder to everyone, please remain civil and contribute to a constructive discussion of the topic.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

Disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff? That is so laughable. The value retains its worth regardless anyone uses it or not. The value of someone’s experience can be tied to the presence of that buff and if the player makes a value judgement that they would enjoy playing without then they should the option.

The players use of a buff doesn’t effect the buff’s value to a server. For the same reason above.

The only way removing the buff by choice would invalidate the point is in that you want players to be knowingly at a loss fighting their buffed opponents and have to struggle to overcome it. This contrasts with the sense of honor some pvpers have and that you would force them to be unable to play as they want when it comes to something so SIMPLE as this is disgusting.

Get it together guys.

Guys, stop whining, i know i’m going to get rocks thrown at me, but i’m just trying to be honest.First of all, even though we’ve seen previews of the buff system, we have never tested it ourselves, dont kitten on something you have never had the occasion to try, i highly doubt that servers will go for the 3 buffs, or maybe just the first week, secondly, wvw was never about fair fights, what about the upleveled people ? What about people who can afford high cost/effective food ? What about level 300+ people with power/cond dmg/vitality buffs from Wxp ranks ? What about people that can afford ascended thingies and some peoples staying on a mix of rare/exos ? What about the gold cost on omega’s making it much easier to stack/do golem ops on server’s with some rich people in ? Seriously guys, if you want balance, go to sPvp, if you’re whining for the GvG, GvG is quite bad for the wvw community point wise, so it’s against WvW rules anyway, even though i enjoy it and many people do, if it’s for the GvG, wait for a GvG mode, we will eventually get it, the game is evolving at a fast pace, so yeah trust me, we’ll get it. Anyway, i hope i made my point, dont hate on me for just saying what is WvW, wvw is war, if you can get victory, you have to, by any means. Good luck and have fun everyone.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

Can we have some kind of answer as to why the game needs another snowball mechanic that favors the server with a population advantage?

Please just swap the Outmanned and Bloodlust buffs, something like:
Outmanned:
No armor damage, +150 to pow/pre/etc
Bloodlust:
+20% MF, +20% XP and +20% WXP (for each 3/5 held). Keep the stomps = points part.

Everyone wins.

DrWhom.3105:

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

Can we have some kind of answer as to why the game needs another snowball mechanic that favors the server with a population advantage?

Please just swap the Outmanned and Bloodlust buffs, something like:
Outmanned:
No armor damage, +150 to pow/pre/etc
Bloodlust:
+20% MF, +20% XP and +20% WXP (for each 3/5 held). Keep the stomps = points part.

Everyone wins.

^ much better idea.

While Devon’s answer is silly, How come GvG players don’t take into account the whole Healing/Health Bonus you get from having a greater amount of points then the other side?

Xsorus.2507:

While Devon’s answer is silly, How come GvG players don’t take into account the whole Healing/Health Bonus you get from having a greater amount of points then the other side?

We do, and it is also undesirable, but it’s not quite game-breaking like bloodlust would be.

Xsorus.2507:

While Devon’s answer is silly, How come GvG players don’t take into account the whole Healing/Health Bonus you get from having a greater amount of points then the other side?

Shh. Don’t point out flaws!

Xsorus.2507:

While Devon’s answer is silly, How come GvG players don’t take into account the whole Healing/Health Bonus you get from having a greater amount of points then the other side?

Because that is a really tiny ammount, which we can disregard. +150 all stats is HUGE

Bloodlust + ascended? Would that be even worse?

so you GvG’rs still don’t want to fight in OS? who’s being counterproductive? move your GvG to the JP and quit all the yapping and be happy that you won’t be disturbing the normal WvW players either on the forums or in the game

seriously, you make a game within the game with adhoc rules and cry that you can’t play a made up game the way you want it. come on really?

just MOVE your Gvg to the JP and problem solved what is so difficult with that?

Move the queue out of EB please zepher, then players would gladly go there to get rid of that buff, if the buff is not there atleast

Does the buff not apply to Obsidian?

I have nothing against GvG, but it sickens me that you guys are trying to calibrate WvW around GvG instead of just continuing to ask for a GvG mode(Which will eventually happen ), i know you have been asking for this for months, but things are getting the good way, slowly, but they do, so expect GvG and stop trying to speak for all the WvW population :/
EDIT: @Vena.8436: It should’nt, normally, but queues on EB are always high so it is not a solution anyway, GvG’ers should just, like someone suggested earlier, move to the lowest tier servers, it is better for them and for those servers, in waiting for a GvG mode.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

We do not want the buff, putting it in the game is a terrible idea to begin with. The points on stomp are more the enough to make the new ruins valuable. What we are asking here is to give the player an option to lessen the bad impacts this design choice of yours.

Esuni.2498:

Move the queue out of EB please zepher, then players would gladly go there to get rid of that buff, if the buff is not there atleast

it is a separate map, have you been there lately?

Bleed.7052:

I have nothing against GvG, but it sickens me that you guys are trying to calibrate WvW around GvG instead of just continuing to ask for a GvG mode(Which will eventually happen ), i know you have been asking for this for months, but things are getting the good way, slowly, but they do, so expect GvG and stop trying to speak for all the WvW population :/
EDIT: @Vena.8436: It should’nt, normally, but queues on EB are always high so it is not a solution anyway, GvG’ers should just, like someone suggested earlier, move to the lowest tier servers, it is better for them and for those servers, in waiting for a GvG mode.

It’s not that we are calibrating WvW around anything it’s that anet are implementing these changes while not considering the impacts it could have on the GvG community (or they are and ignoring them) either way the obsidian sanctum will most likely be the only solution but it’s not a good one because of the queues and the terrain.

Also moving down to lower tiers is not a good option either because these guilds still run WvW every day and the lower tiers will be boring. It will take a lot of cooperation between guilds to move everyone down the ladder in order to have some even fights.

@Zepher.7803 It is, but you have to go though EB to get in :x

Zepher.7803:

Esuni.2498:

Move the queue out of EB please zepher, then players would gladly go there to get rid of that buff, if the buff is not there atleast

it is a separate map, have you been there lately?

You have to queue for EB to get in there, the question is have YOU been there lately?

Zepher.7803:

Esuni.2498:

Move the queue out of EB please zepher, then players would gladly go there to get rid of that buff, if the buff is not there atleast

it is a separate map, have you been there lately?

You have to go through EB to get to OS, OS is not a solution.

We need a cloned small map with no objectives and no WvW buff to serve as a training grounds. No wxp can be gained there and it has hotm style training areas at each spawn with an open field for fighting

If you cant make this happen, make GvG content! I dont even GvG but its really unfair for the group of players who enjoy it