Guild Wars 2

Stormleaf.1769:

Zenguy.6421:

Stormleaf.1769:

Obviously it’s not ideal, but nothing is going to be. Peoples’ effort would be better spent on coming up with solutions and work-arounds on their own.

Solution: swap the Bloodlust and Outmanned buffs.
This will improve the balance between servers (and in doing so make WvW more interesting) as well as allow GvG to continue.

(I don’t know who first came up with this idea but it’s an excellent one, which is why it keeps getting raised. IIRC, the basic idea was around before ANet announced the Bloodlust buff and it keeps being repeated because it’s such a good idea. It’s possible Anet have missed this one, but I’d be surprised given how often it keeps appearing.)

This “solution” has been available for the past year. The developers clearly don’t want to do it. Again, find your own solutions, with the tools you currently have in the game, rather than calling for the developers to “fix” it for you.

We did that…this can’t be fixed by players

Jinks.2057:

Stormleaf.1769:

Zenguy.6421:

Stormleaf.1769:

Obviously it’s not ideal, but nothing is going to be. Peoples’ effort would be better spent on coming up with solutions and work-arounds on their own.

Solution: swap the Bloodlust and Outmanned buffs.
This will improve the balance between servers (and in doing so make WvW more interesting) as well as allow GvG to continue.

(I don’t know who first came up with this idea but it’s an excellent one, which is why it keeps getting raised. IIRC, the basic idea was around before ANet announced the Bloodlust buff and it keeps being repeated because it’s such a good idea. It’s possible Anet have missed this one, but I’d be surprised given how often it keeps appearing.)

This “solution” has been available for the past year. The developers clearly don’t want to do it. Again, find your own solutions, with the tools you currently have in the game, rather than calling for the developers to “fix” it for you.

We did that…this can’t be fixed by players

If you can’t figure out how to balance a scant 150 point stat disparity amongst yourselves, then you’re not thinking nearly hard enough.

The devs made a game, this game was called the siege game. But people quickly grew tired of it when all the tactics were discovered. Placing siege and counter siege was going on auto-pilot. People started to get burn-out. But a few clever people just said: “kitten this sieging, we do it our own way.”

They came out of the towers and started to do open field fights. These proofed to be very difficult and tons of coordination was involved. Every fight felt like a new challange. But the Devs didn’t like this. Nobody liked their game, but like they shall! So they started adding things in forcing people to play ‘their’ game.

But these players were inventive and found ways around these things. Everything that got implemented to promote siegewars was ignored and played around. People even started to set up a GvG ladder, completely ignoring siegewars. This disturbed the Devs, “Why don’t they like our game?”: they said.

But like they shall! Was repeated over and over again. So they analyzed GvG, what was important for us in those fights. And they found it, balance! “That is easy”: they said. “We just give them a buff, ruining their balance and a chance on a fair fight. This immediately solves the dueling issue and roaming issue aswel. Because they didn’t really played for points either.”

The Devs thought they had a genius plan and started coding and adding pretty things PvE players would like. They added in their solution to these filty guilds not playing for points. And carefully they watched with big hopes up. Would these guild finally start playing for points? But what is this? Where are all the players? Queus are gone, server load is low and nowhere you would see more than 3 players of the same guild running together.

Little did they know that regret comes after. They should have listened to their most loyal players. Now they are all gone, hooked to another game. They tried so hard to make people play their game as they wanted. Instead they should have fixed issues like the commander icon and matchmaking. And left it to the players to decide how they wanted to play the game.

~story of WvW

I’m beginning to wonder if part of Anet’s purpose in reintroducing the Bloodlust buff despite the very strong opposition against this, is the hope that it may divert the energy currently going into GvG back into more core WvW participation. If that’s that case, I can’t l see it working very well as it doesn’t address the reasons why GvG has split off in the first place.

Zenguy.6421:

Stormleaf.1769:

Obviously it’s not ideal, but nothing is going to be. Peoples’ effort would be better spent on coming up with solutions and work-arounds on their own.

Solution: swap the Bloodlust and Outmanned buffs.
This will improve the balance between servers (and in doing so make WvW more interesting) as well as allow GvG to continue.

(I don’t know who first came up with this idea but it’s an excellent one, which is why it keeps getting raised. IIRC, the basic idea was around before ANet announced the Bloodlust buff and it keeps being repeated because it’s such a good idea. It’s possible Anet have missed this one, but I’d be surprised given how often it keeps appearing.)

I actually first posted the idea of swapping outmanned with the original orb buff back on gw2guru.com a long time ago.. Someone did bring it over here and the idea was acknowledged by devs at the time (and brushed off).

Moderator.9532:

As a reminder to everyone, please remain civil and contribute to a constructive discussion of the topic.

That hammer swings both ways. It would be nice to read something constructive from Devon that doesnt ignore everything that has been said on this topic.

Malediktus.9250:

MartyPartys.9187:

Malediktus.9250:

No, please dont. GvG is ruining WvW.

This is not about GvG only, it’s for everyone that prefers fair combat, think of all the solo roamers.

/signed and +1

Roamers benefit from the buff, fair fights are not intended in WvW.

The whole point in being a roamer is the desire to strive to improve oneself beyond the skill capabilities of the average puggle standing next to you. The desire to help one’s team scrape points, even when you stand absolutley alone. The thrill in running headlong into a 1v? and not expecting survive, but having reason to celebrate when you are the one left standing. If I come out on top it’s because my skill was superior, my build was superior, my gear was superior, (etc) to that of my opponent. This completely defeats all of that. It’s an external buff.

In short. No thank you, coach. I don’t want your “performance enhancers”…

I fully endorse the OP. I should be fully capable of disabling the buff upon my person. +1

Edit: After watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8ciFk-dvUOI I do like the new area however. More land to use to tactile advantage is cool by me.

people who dont want “fair fights” are the people who consistently lose in 1v1 situations or small groups. Hence they want their crutches to use and rely on, like ascended gear or buffs.

I used to 1v1 all the time but i stopped since all the balance changes were just screwing with everything and now ascended crap

Stormleaf.1769:

Jinks.2057:

Stormleaf.1769:

Zenguy.6421:

Stormleaf.1769:

Obviously it’s not ideal, but nothing is going to be. Peoples’ effort would be better spent on coming up with solutions and work-arounds on their own.

Solution: swap the Bloodlust and Outmanned buffs.
This will improve the balance between servers (and in doing so make WvW more interesting) as well as allow GvG to continue.

(I don’t know who first came up with this idea but it’s an excellent one, which is why it keeps getting raised. IIRC, the basic idea was around before ANet announced the Bloodlust buff and it keeps being repeated because it’s such a good idea. It’s possible Anet have missed this one, but I’d be surprised given how often it keeps appearing.)

This “solution” has been available for the past year. The developers clearly don’t want to do it. Again, find your own solutions, with the tools you currently have in the game, rather than calling for the developers to “fix” it for you.

We did that…this can’t be fixed by players

If you can’t figure out how to balance a scant 150 point stat disparity amongst yourselves, then you’re not thinking nearly hard enough.

How bout you step up to the plate and lay down the wisdom

CrassBippy.4619:

people who dont want “fair fights” are the people who consistently lose in 1v1 situations or small groups. Hence they want their crutches to use and rely on, like ascended gear or buffs.

I used to 1v1 all the time but i stopped since all the balance changes were just screwing with everything and now ascended crap

After doing the math and investigative work, I’ve discovered the Ascended weapons overall are only adding about a 15% damage bonus over your standard Exotic weaponry. Which isn’t all that bad. It simply means I’ll have to be just that much better on my own. For me it’s just one more hurdle to overcome.

I don’t have an issue with gear. It’s this concept of an external source buff that irks me. If my gear is superior to that of my opponent it’s because I worked for it to be so. So it’s in no way unfair that I can defeat an opponent without Asended gear, because I put forth the time and effort for what I have and they did not.

rfdarko.4639:

It would “completely invalidate the whole point”… Can I ask (in a non sarcastic way, I know the tone is a little heated in here) what that point is? What is the point, that necessitates a manditory buff. Why does the buff become worthless If there was the option to temporarily disable it? Surely the point is simply to give an advantage to your server, but if I wouldn’t begrudge someone if they wanted to disable the buff for a quick duel. I fail to see how that would “completely invalidate” the purpose of the buff. Maybe I’m missing something.

Points are king in normal WvW. Duels and GvG may be fun, but the main focus is the scoreboard over the course of the week. The buff gives a decent chunk of bonus stats, and extra points to your server when you stomp people. You take it off, you’re presumably killing less people (from the decreased stats), stomping less people, and getting your server less points.

tl;dr: If you were to manually strip the buff off of yourself you’d essentially be hurting your server’s chances of winning the match.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

Points are king in normal WvW. Duels and GvG may be fun, but the main focus is the scoreboard over the course of the week. The buff gives a decent chunk of bonus stats, and extra points to your server when you stomp people. You take it off, you’re presumably killing less people (from the decreased stats), stomping less people, and getting your server less points.

tl;dr: If you were to manually strip the buff off of yourself you’d essentially be hurting your server’s chances of winning the match.

So? By this logic everyone must be constantly doing whatever will help their world gain PPT as fast as possible otherwise they are hurting their server’s chances of winning the match.

If I don’t attack a solo uplevel because it’s pointless I am hurting my server, he could be carrying supply that will turn a siege. If I decide I’d rather play a new build/class than the one I have 100s of hours on, I’m hurting my server because I may lose fights I would have otherwise won. If I go into a queued map without full ascended/exotic gear I’m hurting my server because some guy with better stuff could have taken the spot.

Everyone “hurts” their server constantly while playing the game normally and saying something is wrong because it doesn’t improve your chances of winning the match is crazy.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

rfdarko.4639:

It would “completely invalidate the whole point”… Can I ask (in a non sarcastic way, I know the tone is a little heated in here) what that point is? What is the point, that necessitates a manditory buff. Why does the buff become worthless If there was the option to temporarily disable it? Surely the point is simply to give an advantage to your server, but if I wouldn’t begrudge someone if they wanted to disable the buff for a quick duel. I fail to see how that would “completely invalidate” the purpose of the buff. Maybe I’m missing something.

Points are king in normal WvW. Duels and GvG may be fun, but the main focus is the scoreboard over the course of the week. The buff gives a decent chunk of bonus stats, and extra points to your server when you stomp people. You take it off, you’re presumably killing less people (from the decreased stats), stomping less people, and getting your server less points.

tl;dr: If you were to manually strip the buff off of yourself you’d essentially be hurting your server’s chances of winning the match.

I had not touched on that issue myself. Personally I think we should be getting a small amount of points for spiking our opponents by default even without the buff. That’s something that should have been implemented ages ago. In my opinion this would be a huge advantage for both zergs and small man groups, but would REALLY make skilled roamers shine. Folks who are out there everyday picking off zerg tails and other small man units that zergs generally do not usually see or ever really have time to deviate from their objective courses to deal with. Folks who generally go out and kill more than they are being killed essentially.

RvLeshrac.2673:

It implies that you’re in WvWvW for a reason not intended by the designers AND of no assistance to your world. Try PvP.

Uhh … yeah. That’s kind of the point. ANet has so screwed up their original concept for WvW (at least as was described by their early press releases and per the PPT system they installed to determine winners) that huge portions of the WvW community have taken it upon themselves to create peripheral modes of play as replacements. We would have fewer duels and less GvG if attacking/defending towers and keeps actually depended on strategic play and team work instead of the mess it has become. ANet dropped the ball big time and you can’t blame players for coming up with more interesting things to do on the maps.

Zepher.7803:

just MOVE your Gvg to the JP and problem solved what is so difficult with that?

The buff is realm-wide. JP would have the buff. PvE gets the buff. Etc.

Just reduce the new “orb” buff to giving points on stomps only. This will satisfy those playing for points and won’t affect fair dueling/GvG in the least.

And to those saying GvG is just a “few” players: On most servers, those doing GvG are also your most dedicated WvW players. You know, those who play day and night to gain your precious points.

gonna have to put in my vote here. take away the stat buff, keep the world point buff. pretty simple. people will still fight over the points.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

But the server population imbalances when it comes to the league isn’t considered to affect the WvW game mode as a whole? With all due respect Devon, you’re very inconsistent. You’ve said yourself that wvw is not supposed to be fair and that there will be server discrepancies. You’ve also said in another thread that throwing ones skill in it against another is fun. I’ve taken them out of their context yes, but if wvw is unfair and supposed to be based on skill, then having a few people turn off the buff for an hour or two while testing their skill against each other wouldn’t be such a bad thing happen to wvw, would it?

Why is it that every time someone comes up with ideas that sounds really good for the game here on the forums then Anet will have to “discuss” it through, then one never hear about the idea again. But when game altering changes like what’s happening now, and in rapid succession, is never discussed WITH the playerbase but instead forced upon them.

I think you should take your changes back up for discussion, because its not really well thought through. And you should also really discuss where you want wvw to go and what you want wvw to be with regards to your players because I get the feeling that you are very unsure about that.

Iavra.8510:

Just reduce the new “orb” buff to giving points on stomps only. This will satisfy those playing for points and won’t affect fair dueling/GvG in the least.

And to those saying GvG is just a “few” players: On most servers, those doing GvG are also your most dedicated WvW players. You know, those who play day and night to gain your precious points.

Precisely. The whole point of GvG in WvW is to hone your large-scale combat skills. No different than Fight Clubs and Duels are to hone one’s individual skills. This isn’t anything new and they’re not going anywhere anytime soon. Directly because of this, the GvG/Dueling crowd is not only a significant portion of any given server’s WvW population, they’re usually amongst the most dedicated regular WvW participants within said servers. Thusly, doing anything that agitates and segregates that group from the remaining server community because they’re “not contributing” is a potentially costly mistake.

You know… People who think 150 extra attribute points are enough to eliminate skill as a factor, or even dilute it more than slightly, are completely blowing this out of proportion. It amounts to a 15% increase for a character that wears nothing, and far less for someone who’s actually equipped. It’s on the verge of completely negligible.

Seriously, if GvGers can’t figure out a way to adapt to something so miniscule on their own, then… well, I’ve severely overestimated them, to say the least.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

How about a WvW trap that strips the buff from anyone that triggers it, say for 30 minutes (preferably with more than a single trigger per trap, say 5 or 10, I have never used WvW traps so dunno how they actually work)-

Granted I can’t say I know much in terms of balance so this suggestion might create problems in other areas, however, I don’t see a problem in introducing a legit mechanic for the opposing side to combat the buff on a smaller scale (ie. rather than having to remove buff from all three maps by using the cap points allow neutralizing on case by case basis, for smaller group play, so to speak for a short time).

Stormleaf.1769:

You know… People who think 150 extra attribute points are enough to eliminate skill as a factor, or even dilute it more than slightly, are completely blowing this out of proportion. It amounts to a 15% increase for a character that wears nothing, and far less for someone who’s actually equipped. It’s on the verge of completely negligible.

Seriously, if GvGers can’t figure out a way to adapt to something so miniscule on their own, then… well, I’ve severely overestimated them, to say the least.

So still waiting on that solution you keep going on about…

Troop.1369:

I wish they won’t allow anyone to turn the buff on and off. This is World vs World. 1v1 is SPvP..

Yeah but sPVP is terrible, which is why it’s failed spectacularly.

Jinks.2057:

Stormleaf.1769:

You know… People who think 150 extra attribute points are enough to eliminate skill as a factor, or even dilute it more than slightly, are completely blowing this out of proportion. It amounts to a 15% increase for a character that wears nothing, and far less for someone who’s actually equipped. It’s on the verge of completely negligible.

Seriously, if GvGers can’t figure out a way to adapt to something so miniscule on their own, then… well, I’ve severely overestimated them, to say the least.

So still waiting on that solution you keep going on about…

Agreed. Calling the bluff. I think this person is simply trolling.

mjharrison.3209:

Troop.1369:

I wish they won’t allow anyone to turn the buff on and off. This is World vs World. 1v1 is SPvP..

Yeah but sPVP is terrible, which is why it’s failed spectacularly.

Also agreed. sPvP is “Country Club PvP” in comparison to WvW dueling. No holds barred, all stats and personal buffs in effect. If I go and shoot my mouth off to some hammer warrior with full Ascended trinkets, food and utility buffs, and a superior build, I fully expect to end up looking like something Gallagher would leave behind lol.

Jinks.2057:

Stormleaf.1769:

You know… People who think 150 extra attribute points are enough to eliminate skill as a factor, or even dilute it more than slightly, are completely blowing this out of proportion. It amounts to a 15% increase for a character that wears nothing, and far less for someone who’s actually equipped. It’s on the verge of completely negligible.

Seriously, if GvGers can’t figure out a way to adapt to something so miniscule on their own, then… well, I’ve severely overestimated them, to say the least.

So still waiting on that solution you keep going on about…

I already posted a solution. The side with the buff unequipping a few accessories to balance the difference. You could also only let the weaker side use food, or add an extra player to their force if you think the stat disparity is that significant, or disallow traits that increase that attributes of nearby allies. Nothing is going to be perfect, but there are plenty of workable possibilities.

Heck, you could even just go ahead and fight regardless of the buff, accepting that when you lose, it most likely wasn’t because of a paltry few bonus attributes.

Crise.9401:

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

How about a WvW trap that strips the buff from anyone that triggers it, say for 30 minutes (preferably with more than a single trigger per trap, say 5 or 10, I have never used WvW traps so dunno how they actually work)-

Granted I can’t say I know much in terms of balance so this suggestion might create problems in other areas, however, I don’t see a problem in introducing a legit mechanic for the opposing side to combat the buff on a smaller scale (ie. rather than having to remove buff from all three maps by using the cap points allow neutralizing on case by case basis, for smaller group play, so to speak for a short time).

Thankfully the anti-stealth traps are used in moderation by most servers. So not game breaking by any means, as I too had originally feared. They actually if anything reigned in a lot of the “Zerker Thief” population and forced Thief players to evolve around complete reliance on stealth.

The supply traps on the other hand, are very useful as a meager anti-zerg measure. We’re getting off topic though…

MiLkZz.4789:

/signed

Again, I’ll give it 1 month. If nothing gets fixed, I will look for a new game. Well already looking actually.

We never asked for a buff, it is a stupid idea. This favours the server with the most players, because they can miss the most to hold the points. And you killed GvG in the process. Way to go to dissapoint your most hardcore (14hours+/day) players.

As I said before, Gw2 is a gem. But Anet just can’t identify it.

If you give it a month, Devon will point to the numbers and say that participation is fine and use it as an excuse to go even further with his bizarre vision for WvW. When the orbs go in, just stop playing. Vote with your feet and all that. It might also help for WvW players opposing GvGs to see how empty their game is without most of the hardcore WvW guilds.

If we want them to fix any of this, we’re going to have to immediately stop playing until they do. No exceptions.

Problem, in my opinion, is that only even remotely interesting PvP form in this game has been WvW and Anet doesn’t even handle it as PvP but PvE. WvW itself also focuses too much on massive combat to be fun.

In my opinion there should have been different forms of “WvW” from very beginning like for example:

GvG = organized group fights (15-30 ppl)
Alliance v Alliance = massive group fights, mostly for multiple guilds
WvW = casual solo/group fights, mostly for small separate groups in very open environment

I have no direct answer or suggestion how this should have been done but here’s some ideas what I’ve thought or gathered from others:

GvG = should be a lot like in GW1, with some changes of course.
Alliance vs Alliance = would be somewhat like current WvW but teams would be premade for single match with time limit = even numbers. Of course you could join this as long as you can make one full party. Party requests to join squad in queue etc.
WvW = you could make raiding party to go against other servers to cause havoc on some explorable maps. of course this would be somehow limited.

I really don’t see anything like this happen in near future though :P It’s really sad how there is no GUILD HALLS or GvG in GUILD WARS.

Merril.7620:

Guys,

The most important part of the buff is the points on staked player.
If you are in a Borderland you will be wanting these points for your team.

Don’t forget this, if you get the buff taken off you will not be supporting your server.

Seriously, when will people get it through their thick skulls people play PVP games for the PVP. something that takes skill and timing. Its why dueling in UO was so popular and gw1 lasted so long. Zerg v Zerg and PPT running requires no skill, is no fun and doesn’t do anything for the continued future of GW2. Even with adding new content to WvW weekly people will get tired of it and search for something new. Siege warfare is not the end game. Its quite frankly the most boring part of this game and the week when siege was bugged was the most fun anyone had since release.

Malachi.1836:

Merril.7620:

Guys,

The most important part of the buff is the points on staked player.
If you are in a Borderland you will be wanting these points for your team.

Don’t forget this, if you get the buff taken off you will not be supporting your server.

Seriously, when will people get it through their thick skulls people play PVP games for the PVP. something that takes skill and timing. Its why dueling in UO was so popular and gw1 lasted so long. Zerg v Zerg and PPT running requires no skill, is no fun and doesn’t do anything for the continued future of GW2. Even with adding new content to WvW weekly people will get tired of it and search for something new. Siege warfare is not the end game. Its quite frankly the most boring part of this game and the week when siege was bugged was the most fun anyone had since release.

Plus oned my good sir.

ThaOwner.7560:

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

why do you want to kill GvG? honest question

Cause thats the most BS answer i’ve ever heard

why do you want to keep GvG in its current state of near-death? honest question
practically noone does GvG, the amount of GvG guilds is minimum compared to the amount of guilds created . its a tiny scene, and being a very vocal one is not changing that.

tbh I rather they remove GvG from WvW entirely, and come up later with a real GvG system possibly more related to sPvP than to WvW, where they actually put resources to make it work instead of force-pegging it where it doesnt belong

Benjamin.6235:

MiLkZz.4789:

/signed

Again, I’ll give it 1 month. If nothing gets fixed, I will look for a new game. Well already looking actually.

We never asked for a buff, it is a stupid idea. This favours the server with the most players, because they can miss the most to hold the points. And you killed GvG in the process. Way to go to dissapoint your most hardcore (14hours+/day) players.

As I said before, Gw2 is a gem. But Anet just can’t identify it.

If you give it a month, Devon will point to the numbers and say that participation is fine and use it as an excuse to go even further with his bizarre vision for WvW. When the orbs go in, just stop playing. Vote with your feet and all that. It might also help for WvW players opposing GvGs to see how empty their game is without most of the hardcore WvW guilds.

If we want them to fix any of this, we’re going to have to immediately stop playing until they do. No exceptions.

This. Organize a boycott of the game for one week. Let it be known to everyone why you’re doing this. If the GvG guilds really are important members of the PPT community (I don’t doubt it) then this should have an impact on the week’s matchups.

It’s only a week, so not too big a sacrifice for the point that you’re making.

People who are arguing for the changes need to realize that we want this option not because it harms GvG but its just a terrible change period. They should not have a straight stat boost; they want incentive to capture these points make direct wvw mechanics that work with these buffs.

1/2/3 Bloodlust Buffs – Upgrades go 10/20/30% faster in HOMEBL
1/2/3 Bloodlust Buffs – All Friendly Yaks carry 10%/20/30% more supply

These are just two quick ideas; they would not directly give a massive advantage to the blobs and also they would add a new layer of tactical innovation for the ppt players. A straight up stat boost is horrible ; same way wxp encouraged blobbing; same way tradeable siege made t1/t2 NA omegaddons. I like that the lake encourages people to split up more to get the buff than just blob on one dorito but a straight up stat increase is still lazy developing.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

Please Devon, explain to the community why snowball a team for achievement something is a good idea to a supposed “skill based game” and not “stats for win game” because i even don’t understand you ascended items yet and now this?

This game is become about stats stacking in any form to win (broken “stack on kill” sigils, pve farming for ascended weapons, now this orbs…)

I know if for “incentive players to do something” but, there is “ways” and ways to do it.

I love what the people who are against this resort too when they get their card pulled.

Toggle the buffs there is zero reason besides blind stubborness not to do this.

Or change the buff into something not stat based, like any brain-provided developer would do.

Outmanned: +50/100/150 to all stat depending on how large is disparity

Bloodlust: gain utility buffs depending on how many points you hold, magnitude of buffs (10/20/30%) depends on the points held on different BL’s.
In order:
1 point: +Exp
2 points: +karma
3 points: +Magic Find
4 points: +Gold Find
5 points: +WxP

Hold 1 point on all 3 BL’s → 30% more Exp.
Hold 3 points in one BL, 5 in another BL and 1 in the third BL → 30% Exp (3 times 1 point held), 20% karma, 20% MF (2 times held 3 points), 10% Gold Find, 10% Wxp.
Hold 5 points on all BL’s →30% Exp, Karma, MF, Gold Find, Wxp.

Plus the stomp points.

Bam, everybody is happy.

AndrewSX.3794:

Or change the buff into something not stat based, like any brain-provided developer would do.

Outmanned: +50/100/150 to all stat depending on how large is disparity

Bloodlust: gain utility buffs depending on how many points you hold, magnitude of buffs (10/20/30%) depends on the points held on different BL’s.
In order:
1 point: +Exp
2 points: +karma
3 points: +Magic Find
4 points: +Gold Find
5 points: +WxP

Hold 1 point on all 3 BL’s -> 30% more Exp.
Hold 3 points in one BL, 5 in another BL and 1 in the third BL -> 30% Exp (3 times 1 point held), 20% karma, 20% MF (2 times held 3 points), 10% Gold Find, 10% Wxp.
Hold 5 points on all BL’s ->30% Exp, Karma, MF, Gold Find, Wxp.

Plus the stomp points.

Bam, everybody is happy.

This, please !

I’ve done some (smaller) GvG’s, and I know people enjoy it, but that’s not the point about any of this.

ArenaNet have made WvW and they made it around a certain design – taking objectives and fighting for score, the second part being the main aim. Other people found fun doing other things within that mode – good for them – but why would ArenaNet then go and change the mode to suit them? They are continuing to design around it’s original intention and that’s fine. It’s the purpose of the game mode whether it’s what others use it for or not, and that’s not going to change.

Yes, it would be good to have a disable option, but is it “required”, absolutely not.

Majority of developers make a game THEY want, and if other people like it then great. Profit is good but the game will be a lot better if the dev’s like what they are producing, hence why it’s how it is. WvW is what they wanted it to be. If there are a multitude of other games that give you what you want then why not play them instead of trying to change this one to become them?

Been saying it for years across many games but it’s usually players that ruin games, not developers. Even with the zerging argument, the game may incentivize zerging, but when I see complaints like “I don’t enjoy it, but I do it anyway because I have to!”, no, no one makes you do it, you just value reward more than enjoyment. Don’t enjoy it, then don’t do it.

tl:dr;
WvW is designed to be an open world PPT server war and that’s what the developers WANT it to be, if that’s not what you’re looking for then it’s the wrong mode for you.

I laughed at devons response. Telling you all no was priceless. Sometimes players/customers have to be told no. The customer isn’t always right and players are wrong a lot of the time. With that being said I’d support being allowed to turn the buff off though.

What i´d like to know is if this is
“No, it won´t be in because we´re working 25 hours a day with our horribly understaffed wvw team to even get this update live”
Or if it is.
“No, it won´t be in because it doesn´t fit the image we have about our game mode”

Which just shows how clueless they are when it comes to wvw and it´s potential.

I think some ppl is missing the point of this complain/request.

Bloodlust as it is, with the old orbs buff, is not bad for GvG, roaming or fair fights only.

It’s bad for WvW as whole.
We had already Orbs back 1 year ago so it isn’t even speculation, we experienced it already: it just increase the strenght of the already winning server, leads to snowballing, and increases the gap in blowouts due to sheer coverage.

That’s why it should be changed.
Before any Gvg/roaming/fair fights complain.

As far as “How to play WvW” is concerned:

While most sane people stopped caring about the score a year ago, some still cling to the notion that WvW is a competitive game type with PPT being the indicator of success or failure. You’ve seen them, the crazy people who want to hold a tower “for the tick,” as if matters. Those are the types who don’t like GvG.

This guys nailed it.

If WvW scoring/winning was an actual test of PvP tactical and fighting skill, then there wouldn’t be even GvG as whole.
But WvW, as designed by Anet, is a coverage siege and blobbing war, where pvp can be nearly completely avoided, pvp skill is irrilevant and tactic is dumbed down to “where i’ll take the zoneblob next”.
That is how WvW is designed? Fine, but it’s boring, siege and numbers are too much more important than pvp skill and as whole the mode is being ignored for too much time.

That’s why ppl started to do not care anymore of score, PPT, siege and objectives and focusing on fights, more balanced the better. That’s why GvG and roaming are so popular. That’s why having those getting gutted by Bloodlust is another blow to WvW – which as whole will suffer this newly introduced unbalance.

Strang.8170:

What i´d like to know is if this is
“No, it won´t be in because we´re working 25 hours a day with our horribly understaffed wvw team to even get this update live”
Or if it is.
“No, it won´t be in because it doesn´t fit the image we have about our game mode”

Which just shows how clueless they are when it comes to wvw and it´s potential.

They have to be vague and infrequent when they talk. People freak out when they talk and players can be some of the most nasty people. Players have also become quite adept at assuming, coming to conclusions, and making things up.

AndrewSX.3794:

Or change the buff into something not stat based, like any brain-provided developer would do.

Outmanned: +50/100/150 to all stat depending on how large is disparity

Bloodlust: gain utility buffs depending on how many points you hold, magnitude of buffs (10/20/30%) depends on the points held on different BL’s.
In order:
1 point: +Exp
2 points: +karma
3 points: +Magic Find
4 points: +Gold Find
5 points: +WxP

Hold 1 point on all 3 BL’s -> 30% more Exp.
Hold 3 points in one BL, 5 in another BL and 1 in the third BL -> 30% Exp (3 times 1 point held), 20% karma, 20% MF (2 times held 3 points), 10% Gold Find, 10% Wxp.
Hold 5 points on all BL’s ->30% Exp, Karma, MF, Gold Find, Wxp.

Plus the stomp points.

Bam, everybody is happy.

This is superior to what devs want to do atm..
And nobody is going to tell you “get out of the borderland ’cause we have +150 stats!” when the population is 1v10..

RvLeshrac.2673:

Dr Acula.3496:

Troop.1369:

I wish they won’t allow anyone to turn the buff on and off. This is World vs World. 1v1 is SPvP.

GvG is.. well… not an option supported by Arena.Net yet… maybe in another game you will find what you are looking for.

Im sorry man, but if I chose to disable my orb buff thats my choice and it doesnt effect you or WvW in the least. Therefore your argument has no merit and is best kept to yourself.

To be frank, it does. It implies that you’re in WvWvW for a reason not intended by the designers AND of no assistance to your world. Try PvP.

Maybe youre to busy dry humping some gates to realize this, but PvP happens in WvW… So ill stick with what I enjoy thanks. SPvP is watered down garbage with no diversity, ill pass.

its all or nothing… we all get the buff oir wee all dont get the buff.. but something in betweeen wouldnt be fair. so stop talking about disabling this buff instead try that tehy dont implement the buff with stats boost.. would be a reason for me to attemp and try to kill any gvg or duell attemps.. and im not the only one who thinks so

Zenguy.6421:

I’m beginning to wonder if part of Anet’s purpose in reintroducing the Bloodlust buff despite the very strong opposition against this, is the hope that it may divert the energy currently going into GvG back into more core WvW participation. If that’s that case, I can’t l see it working very well as it doesn’t address the reasons why GvG has split off in the first place.

But it isn’t. Agg and EP are most likely the best guilds in GvG atm. They both field 30+ in WvW all the time. It’s not like GvG guilds don’t also WvW. Hell, all GvG guilds are WvW guild that want to prove what they are capable of in the first place

It’s funny how mad people are about this…don’t like the buff? Think it’s unfair then go to sPvP where the game is apparently more balanced OR transfer to a server the will likely never have the buff.

I for one enjoy solo roaming and am constantly fighting 1v1 1v2 1v3 so I will take any advantage I can get.

Istaf.1953:

Zenguy.6421:

I’m beginning to wonder if part of Anet’s purpose in reintroducing the Bloodlust buff despite the very strong opposition against this, is the hope that it may divert the energy currently going into GvG back into more core WvW participation. If that’s that case, I can’t l see it working very well as it doesn’t address the reasons why GvG has split off in the first place.

But it isn’t. Agg and EP are most likely the best guilds in GvG atm. They both field 30+ in WvW all the time. It’s not like GvG guilds don’t also WvW. Hell, all GvG guilds are WvW guild that want to prove what they are capable of in the first place

On NA maybe. But yea, my guild does as many GvGs as possible and we have between 5-35 people in WvW at ALL TIMES. Day and night.

kingcragus.6810:

It’s funny how mad people are about this…don’t like the buff? Think it’s unfair then go to sPvP where the game is apparently more balanced OR transfer to a server the will likely never have the buff.

I for one enjoy solo roaming and am constantly fighting 1v1 1v2 1v3 so I will take any advantage I can get.

the problem starts when you dont have the buff and the enemy has whole week all 3 buffs.. solo roaming totaly kittened up

and i dont want to fight 1 vs 3 even when i have the buffs would be to unfair for the enemy