Guild Wars 2

Thrashbarg.9820:

Sarsbear.3469:

Now the devs are putting in an open field objective, a place designed specifically for groups to fight other groups, and its going to kill the “scene.” As a small group roamer I say good riddance. All I ever cared about was good fights, but you guys spent the last year making sure points was all that mattered.

I don’t think anyone is arguing against the new map objective. The issue is the stat buff. Snowballing mechanics are bad. They were bad last year and they are bad again. It’s lazy design to go with a simple stat buff rather than creating a strategic reason to fight for these new points such as many which have been suggested in this and other threads.

“Getting rolled is getting rolled” you say, I say it’s not so black and white. Adding this buff just makes it that much harder to come back from behind.

In some matches my server starts every “morning” with basically no points and steadily comes back throughout the “day”. We mostly have a strong NA presence, but our opponents often do as well, so it’s not like we just trade off PvD with the other server’s oceanic/asian populations, we have to fight for every inch. In those fights they will all now have an extra stat bonus and more points from killing our frontliners who do the dirty work of retaking our lands every day.

I’m hoping the new points will add some interesting small/medium scale open area fights, it looks like they will. I stand by my opinion that the stat buff is crap design and and other number of incentives would do much better (faster upgrades, less costly repairs, increased defense from siege, swapping buffs with “outmanned”, etc.).

I would argue that your complaint isn’t the stat buff, it’s the mechanics that allow snowballing in the first place. You wake up with 0 points, why? Because another server outnumbered you enough to walk all over your towers. They got the buff because of that, so let’s solve that problem. I also like your incentives if they were for outmanned, but a stat buff for holding 3 of 5 open field objectives sounds very reasonable, considering I will spend most of my time preventing the other teams from doing so.

I miss 24 hour rotations.

Shemsu.8721:

Asquared.4091:

DrWhom.3105:

Shemsu.8721:

It wont, and shouldnt convince them. Personally I could care less either way about the stat points, though i love the stomp ppt part. However to argue against a WvW development for GvG (ie NOT WvW) reasons, is just not going to work, and it shouldnt. Thats like arguing against a sPvP change for PvE reasons. GvG is NOT WvW, it should not even be considered when making changes and developments regarding WvW. They can go stroke their kitten in the sanctum

Fine, don’t consider it. Plenty of non-GvG players have posted saying they oppose this, mechanics that favor the most populated server in a match are bad for obvious reasons that have been pointed out over and over. Straight stat buffs are also the least interesting means of giving a reward for holding these new points, and lead to confrontations that would have been even before feeling like they were unfair.

Yes uneven fights are part of WvW’s appeal and a big reason why many (including me) prefer it to sPvP, but that doesn’t mean Anet should make it mechanically impossible to have an even one. What I find amusing (in a depressing way) is that most of the people posting in support of Bloodlust seem to be doing so because they want GvG to fail/be ignored.

Exactly.

@Shemsu, every post of yours has just been anti-GvG. Consider that a big part of why GvG has evolved is exactly because of the way WvW is functioning. People don’t enjoy PvDoor, and ppt is based almost completely on coverage and numbers. Why would you enjoy taking an undefended keep? There is no sense of accomplishment. The enjoyment of WvW comes from clashing with other players, whether in open field or in a siege. The buff discourages clashing of players period.

Your post completely misses it. GvG didnt evolve because of the way wvw is functioning, it evolved because wvw is anonymous, and thats not good enough for some players to stroke their kitten too, they want everyone to know how leet they are so they can get off.

Not only that, I never once argued for the stat buff, I could care less, its 500 health, 50 toughness, thats 1/6th of an autoattack not gonna be a game changer. The ppt on stomps i think is an amazing mechanic that could change things up alot. Like i said before, if a FAIR and EVEN fight is what people really wanted, custom arenas exist, but they cant walk around with flashy legendaries stroking themselves for being so amazing at spamming a skill rotation

I guess I just don’t see it the way you do then. Maybe the guilds you interact with are different than the ones I see. The best WvW guild on my server is CNB, and they are not at all like that.

As for the buff, which after all was the whole point of this topic, I think my point still stands. All it accomplishes is further reinforcing the power of map coverage via WvW population.

Sarsbear.3469:

Thrashbarg.9820:

Sarsbear.3469:

Now the devs are putting in an open field objective, a place designed specifically for groups to fight other groups, and its going to kill the “scene.” As a small group roamer I say good riddance. All I ever cared about was good fights, but you guys spent the last year making sure points was all that mattered.

I don’t think anyone is arguing against the new map objective. The issue is the stat buff. Snowballing mechanics are bad. They were bad last year and they are bad again. It’s lazy design to go with a simple stat buff rather than creating a strategic reason to fight for these new points such as many which have been suggested in this and other threads.

“Getting rolled is getting rolled” you say, I say it’s not so black and white. Adding this buff just makes it that much harder to come back from behind.

In some matches my server starts every “morning” with basically no points and steadily comes back throughout the “day”. We mostly have a strong NA presence, but our opponents often do as well, so it’s not like we just trade off PvD with the other server’s oceanic/asian populations, we have to fight for every inch. In those fights they will all now have an extra stat bonus and more points from killing our frontliners who do the dirty work of retaking our lands every day.

I’m hoping the new points will add some interesting small/medium scale open area fights, it looks like they will. I stand by my opinion that the stat buff is crap design and and other number of incentives would do much better (faster upgrades, less costly repairs, increased defense from siege, swapping buffs with “outmanned”, etc.).

I would argue that your complaint isn’t the stat buff, it’s the mechanics that allow snowballing in the first place. You wake up with 0 points, why? Because another server outnumbered you enough to walk all over your towers. They got the buff because of that, so let’s solve that problem. I also like your incentives if they were for outmanned, but a stat buff for holding 3 of 5 open field objectives sounds very reasonable, considering I will spend most of my time preventing the other teams from doing so.

I miss 24 hour rotations.

I agree with your assessment of my complaint. However, I think it would be much simpler to avoid adding more power to dominant servers than to fix the massive discrepancies in coverage without alienating oceanic/asian players.

I hope we’ll get lots of good small scale fights out of this, but I can already think of ways zergs can effectively hold these points and most/all structural objectives as well. Not going to elaborate, since I’m hoping for a few weeks at least before the meta totally shifts back to map-blobs.

Skyllar.3562:

Streps.9784:

we already get buffs from wvw have none of u noticed the longer wvw goes on the larger your hp pool gets not to mention a few other buffs and if your in first place u have more hp then the people in last place?

well but the loosing server gets it too, and the difference isnt that big, usually like 2% Hp. do you really want to compare 2% more hp (400ish at 20k hp) and heal to a 150 allstat buff? (which is 1,5k HP, more crit, more basedmg, more condidmg, more heal, more armor, did i miss something?)

to be all out right honest couldn’t give a crap im a oceanic player on a low tier server with low oceanic player base and i just look at this as a challenge to over come something fresh in wvw that in the end will make me a better player in fact the only thing i dislike about all the new stuff is ascended weps because i have to go pve and craft stuff and that’s crap for someone who only wvw but that’s a totally diff topic anyways the new orb buffs in the end a skilled player will still beat a unskilled player who has orb buffs and it will just make the looser with orb buffs look and feel more stupid wvw is about taking towers and making points not dueling and and GvG everyone complains about it but that is the truth that’s what it was made for that’s what it will always be you can cry and complain all you like but it will not take away what wvw is you don’t want to fight with the new orb mech then don’t but i sure as hell know a lot of people on my server looking forward to it because it will take away alot of the Bez built players and we will see allot of new bunker builds that have no place in wvw atm and personally i will miss all the bez guys because they die so easy when there in a zerg if you want balanced pvp that’s spvp no one in wvw is balanced because of all the diff stats we can use and bonuses we get u dont go into wvw looking for a fair fight because thats not what wvw is about its about 1 server trying to beat 2 others in points anyway they can. and points are not won by GvG and Dueling

Luiz Swordbreaker.6547:

Topic says it all. Would it be possible to disable the buff on myself? Either
1) Have it so you can right click to remove.
2) Have some sort of item sold by the BL vendors that overwrites the orb buff.
3) Have an item that adds -50 stats to myself.

It would really be much appreciated.

No thank you,
Maybe after my ranger can toggle her pet we can talk about the orb.

GvG obsess people are neglecting the simple fact that they are the chicken, the Orb is the egg it came first. What do I mean?

Orbs were in since the game’s Beta and were only removed for exploiting reasons around Nov 1st because of the excessive exploiting (that was griefing massive amounts of players due to the score imbalance because of it).

From the very time that Orbs were removed, Arena Net has stated time and time again that they’d return into the game in some form or another -just not the Orb form it originally was-. Well, that’s what these Lake Ruin CP’s are: a non-exploitable form of the Orb mechanic returned to the game as it originally was designed to be in.

Your so loved GvG was nothing more than an unintended byproduct of the time off from the Orb while it was “in the shop, getting repaired”.

As many have pointed out, sPvP now has Custom Arenas that allow players to set up their own scheduled even-team matches. There may no be 15/20 man, but there are 10-man teams, which is still a fairly good sized fight.

P.S. Just to point out, the ‘game mode’ is called “WORLD vs WORLD vs WORLD”, not “Guild vs Guild by the windmill”. World = server.

This thread is now cancerous

Siphaed.9235:

Orbs were in since the game’s Beta and were only removed for exploiting reasons around Nov 1st because of the excessive exploiting (that was griefing massive amounts of players due to the score imbalance because of it).

Actually, this is wrong:

Habib Loew.6239:

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back. In addition, the current implementation seems to be irresistible to hackers/cheaters and will require significant modification to prevent cheaters from having an unfortunately large impact on the state of any given WvW game. Under the circumstances we believe that removing orbs completely is a better choice than attempting an in-place redesign/re-implementation as it will immediately put a stop to all orb hacking. It is likely that orbs, or some orb-like mechanic, will return at some point in the future, but only after we are confident that they will not exhibit the sorts of issues that we see with orbs today.

The snowball effect is actually mentioned first, and the hacking is an additional reason. Presumably with the move from something that could be placed in a t3 keep, to five points in the middle of the BL, this issue is considered solved. I’m not convinced it is, considering the wide differences in population between servers. Not to mention you need to take the buff for yourself, rather than just neutralizing it for your enemy.

The orb used to reset all the time. It’s not like you had to assault a keep to take it. You just weren’t going to keep it against a bigger server, so what Habib said about making the rich get richer still stands. Besides, the hacking excuse seemed more like a way to save face while removing something integral to their design that the player base hated.

I’m not sure people are really remembering how many anti-orb threads there were. It was fun to fight over things. It was not fun to fight buffed groups. So the pickle is trying to give people who no longer give a kitten about PPT, because when most people realized that PPT is merely a measurement of population they decided to not care about it over quitting the game, something important enough to actually fight over while not having it be something that exacerbates the coverage problem. I’m not sure what that thing could be, but this isn’t it.

The funny part that you cannot remove the buff by neutralizing the cap points. This sounds like a hard work to make buff more unbearable.

Orb buff makes absolutely no sense. None.

ANet’s stance to continuously ignore the WvW community and its feedback is simply ridiculous. It’s as if they’re trying to ruin it on purpose, which is baffling given the potential the game mode has.

Whilst the new buff mechanic will hamper the GvG scene, it will also impact every WvW player regardless of how you choose to play it. Solo-roamer? 5-man sniper team? Small guild group? You will all be impacted by this, so stop targeting those who want answers about GvG because you’re focusing on the wrong people.

The new layout of the borderland map will not split up the huge zergs that train around the map. The proximity of the capture points for the buff will only favour the server with the largest zerg and in-turn simply make them ‘stronger’. The buff will also not make WvW more competitive, it will make the servers already at the top of tier 1 even ‘stronger’.

Introducing some type of buff is a nice idea, but to make the buff have a direct impact on the game is insane. The buff should reward players, i.e. boosts to magic find, gold or karma retrieved, world xp gained and so on. It should not be a server wide buff that increases the attributes of the players and giving them a distinct advantage.

Devon’s response earlier in the thread quite frankly demonstrates the fact that ANet do not care about the WvW community and its feedback. It also shows their complete lack of connection and understanding with us (the WvW community) because who on earth would have suggested this idea? They have clearly not consulted anyone who actually plays WvW on a regular basis and are again not listening to the feedback. This is what we (the WvW community) should be annoyed about, not people wanting answers about GvG.

scanz.4536:

ANet’s stance to continuously ignore the WvW community and its feedback is simply ridiculous. It’s as if they’re trying to ruin it on purpose, which is baffling given the potential the game mode has.

Whilst the new buff mechanic will hamper the GvG scene, it will also impact every WvW player regardless of how you choose to play it. Solo-roamer? 5-man sniper team? Small guild group? You will all be impacted by this, so stop targeting those who want answers about GvG because you’re focusing on the wrong people.

The new layout of the borderland map will not split up the huge zergs that train around the map. The proximity of the capture points for the buff will only favour the server with the largest zerg and in-turn simply make them ‘stronger’. The buff will also not make WvW more competitive, it will make the servers already at the top of tier 1 even ‘stronger’.

Introducing some type of buff is a nice idea, but to make the buff have a direct impact on the game is insane. The buff should reward players, i.e. boosts to magic find, gold or karma retrieved, world xp gained and so on. It should not be a server wide buff that increases the attributes of the players and giving them a distinct advantage.

Devon’s response earlier in the thread quite frankly demonstrates the fact that ANet do not care about the WvW community and its feedback. It also shows their complete lack of connection and understanding with us (the WvW community) because who on earth would have suggested this idea? They have clearly not consulted anyone who actually plays WvW on a regular basis and are again not listening to the feedback. This is what we (the WvW community) should be annoyed about, not people wanting answers about GvG.

+1

Skyllar.3562:

Shemsu.8721:

Asquared.4091:

DrWhom.3105:

Shemsu.8721:

It wont, and shouldnt convince them. Personally I could care less either way about the stat points, though i love the stomp ppt part. However to argue against a WvW development for GvG (ie NOT WvW) reasons, is just not going to work, and it shouldnt. Thats like arguing against a sPvP change for PvE reasons. GvG is NOT WvW, it should not even be considered when making changes and developments regarding WvW. They can go stroke their kitten in the sanctum

Fine, don’t consider it. Plenty of non-GvG players have posted saying they oppose this, mechanics that favor the most populated server in a match are bad for obvious reasons that have been pointed out over and over. Straight stat buffs are also the least interesting means of giving a reward for holding these new points, and lead to confrontations that would have been even before feeling like they were unfair.

Yes uneven fights are part of WvW’s appeal and a big reason why many (including me) prefer it to sPvP, but that doesn’t mean Anet should make it mechanically impossible to have an even one. What I find amusing (in a depressing way) is that most of the people posting in support of Bloodlust seem to be doing so because they want GvG to fail/be ignored.

Exactly.

@Shemsu, every post of yours has just been anti-GvG. Consider that a big part of why GvG has evolved is exactly because of the way WvW is functioning. People don’t enjoy PvDoor, and ppt is based almost completely on coverage and numbers. Why would you enjoy taking an undefended keep? There is no sense of accomplishment. The enjoyment of WvW comes from clashing with other players, whether in open field or in a siege. The buff discourages clashing of players period.

Your post completely misses it. GvG didnt evolve because of the way wvw is functioning, it evolved because wvw is anonymous, and thats not good enough for some players to stroke their kitten too, they want everyone to know how leet they are so they can get off.

Not only that, I never once argued for the stat buff, I could care less, its 500 health, 50 toughness, thats 1/6th of an autoattack not gonna be a game changer. The ppt on stomps i think is an amazing mechanic that could change things up alot. Like i said before, if a FAIR and EVEN fight is what people really wanted, custom arenas exist, but they cant walk around with flashy legendaries stroking themselves for being so amazing at spamming a skill rotation

as already stated like a gazillion times: CUSTOM ARENAS ARE NOT AN OPTION
WHY?
Because of a max of 10v10 and a screwed statsystem which allows no diversity and forces you into ~1 metabuild per class (BORING, im heavily into build-theorycrafting for my gvgsquad, spvp would take that away completly, and there are many ppl just like me out there…).

also, spvp stats arent meant for fights of this scale.

The thing is, sPvP is supposed to be the balanced game type right? So if your GvG is to really sort the men from the boys and see who is best should not this be done in a balanced setting where it comes down to player skill. Now what you should do rather than complaining that WvW does not cater to your GvG is trying to get Anet to make you a nice new shiny sPvP map with no objectives and a bigger team size.

sPvP is the answer.

A question.. In a GvG do you now un-equip your legendaries beacause they give a stat advantage now. If the answer is no y’all need to kitten.

kingcragus.6810:

The thing is, sPvP is supposed to be the balanced game type right? So if your GvG is to really sort the men from the boys and see who is best should not this be done in a balanced setting where it comes down to player skill. Now what you should do rather than complaining that WvW does not cater to your GvG is trying to get Anet to make you a nice new shiny sPvP map with no objectives and a bigger team size.

sPvP is the answer.

A question.. In a GvG do you now un-equip your legendaries beacause they give a stat advantage now. If the answer is no y’all need to kitten.

This is been asked multiple times – but Anet already said it won’t happen anytime soon (GvG format, AKA larger group fights in a separate environment) – hence the ppl complaining about changes that will ruin the place where they can do it currently.

Current format of sPvP doesn’t work – due to numbers and limitations of builds – you can’t take your team setup strait into sPvP – even a 5 man team will look different in its build setup in sPvP.

As for legendaries, haven’t heard anything since ascended patch which brought the stat increase – but I expect it will asked to switch, same way as weapon stacks are asked to drop.

kingcragus.6810:

Skyllar.3562:

Shemsu.8721:

Asquared.4091:

DrWhom.3105:

Shemsu.8721:

It wont, and shouldnt convince them. Personally I could care less either way about the stat points, though i love the stomp ppt part. However to argue against a WvW development for GvG (ie NOT WvW) reasons, is just not going to work, and it shouldnt. Thats like arguing against a sPvP change for PvE reasons. GvG is NOT WvW, it should not even be considered when making changes and developments regarding WvW. They can go stroke their kitten in the sanctum

Fine, don’t consider it. Plenty of non-GvG players have posted saying they oppose this, mechanics that favor the most populated server in a match are bad for obvious reasons that have been pointed out over and over. Straight stat buffs are also the least interesting means of giving a reward for holding these new points, and lead to confrontations that would have been even before feeling like they were unfair.

Yes uneven fights are part of WvW’s appeal and a big reason why many (including me) prefer it to sPvP, but that doesn’t mean Anet should make it mechanically impossible to have an even one. What I find amusing (in a depressing way) is that most of the people posting in support of Bloodlust seem to be doing so because they want GvG to fail/be ignored.

Exactly.

@Shemsu, every post of yours has just been anti-GvG. Consider that a big part of why GvG has evolved is exactly because of the way WvW is functioning. People don’t enjoy PvDoor, and ppt is based almost completely on coverage and numbers. Why would you enjoy taking an undefended keep? There is no sense of accomplishment. The enjoyment of WvW comes from clashing with other players, whether in open field or in a siege. The buff discourages clashing of players period.

Your post completely misses it. GvG didnt evolve because of the way wvw is functioning, it evolved because wvw is anonymous, and thats not good enough for some players to stroke their kitten too, they want everyone to know how leet they are so they can get off.

Not only that, I never once argued for the stat buff, I could care less, its 500 health, 50 toughness, thats 1/6th of an autoattack not gonna be a game changer. The ppt on stomps i think is an amazing mechanic that could change things up alot. Like i said before, if a FAIR and EVEN fight is what people really wanted, custom arenas exist, but they cant walk around with flashy legendaries stroking themselves for being so amazing at spamming a skill rotation

as already stated like a gazillion times: CUSTOM ARENAS ARE NOT AN OPTION
WHY?
Because of a max of 10v10 and a screwed statsystem which allows no diversity and forces you into ~1 metabuild per class (BORING, im heavily into build-theorycrafting for my gvgsquad, spvp would take that away completly, and there are many ppl just like me out there…).

also, spvp stats arent meant for fights of this scale.

The thing is, sPvP is supposed to be the balanced game type right? So if your GvG is to really sort the men from the boys and see who is best should not this be done in a balanced setting where it comes down to player skill. Now what you should do rather than complaining that WvW does not cater to your GvG is trying to get Anet to make you a nice new shiny sPvP map with no objectives and a bigger team size.

sPvP is the answer.

A question.. In a GvG do you now un-equip your legendaries beacause they give a stat advantage now. If the answer is no y’all need to kitten.

we do till ppl had enough time to get ascended weapons, yes.

And well, yes, spvp is balanced, but for 5v5 fights, and its even lacking there.
You mentioned it yourself, it is SUPPOSED to be a balanced gamemode, but 1 viable build per class tells a different story to me.

and still, spvp stat system is way to limited.

Please, stop bringing up sPvP if you have no idea what you’re talking about.
It’s FAR from balanced, and in it’s current state individual player skill barely matters.
Also, as said above:
- Maps are too small even for 8v8.
- Map layout doesn’t allow for proper large-scale fights (the only exception being Foefire mid)
- Build crafting possibilities are pathetic due to all stats being in one amulet.

Hello,

First of all, thank you for your feedback, we really appreciate it. Nevertheless, while we can fully understand that you may dislike some directions World versus World is heading to, please try to stay constructive and polite towards each other’s and our staff members.

This forum is intended for both side to share ideas and opinions about it.

Therefore, we kindly ask you to be more polite and respectful in this thread, so we can have a friendly place to share our thoughts about it, and that our staff members can have a clear overview of your concerns.
Please also keep in mind that all of your feedback is carefully read, and addressed.

Thank you for your contributions!

Can’t the side with the buff just take off a few accessories to even out the stat disparity, for GvG? i dont recall who said it first but this right here is the best solution Anet is not going to do anything for your unintended game play mode and if they do you best believe it wont be in wvw. so please stop posting in the wvw forums about GvG i am more then certain they gave you a place to talk about it try using it. who knows maybe the reason your not getting cooperation from Anet is because you wont even use the area they set aside for you to speak in.

I believe it would take a high number of man hours to program a way to turn this ability on and off. Its a great idea, but may not be in the budget or timeline for Anet.

Moderator.6837:

Hello,

First of all, thank you for your feedback, we really appreciate it. Nevertheless, while we can fully understand that you may dislike some directions World versus World is heading to, please try to stay constructive and polite towards each other’s and our staff members.

This forum is intended for both side to share ideas and opinions about it.

Therefore, we kindly ask you to be more polite and respectful in this thread, so we can have a friendly place to share our thoughts about it, and that our staff members can have a clear overview of your concerns.
Please also keep in mind that all of your feedback is carefully read, and addressed.

Thank you for your contributions!

I can say that much of our feedback gets completely ignored. You keep adding things we don’t ask for yet do nothing about what we do ask for. Most of the time we don’t get an explanation of why it isn’t done either. We as a community have ask for some things for almost a year now to no avail. When is the commander system gonna get a makeover? Or the party system? Both seem like fairly simple things to me but I don’t hear much about it. I Surw if I thought about it I could cone with many more examples of thing that we as a community have asked for in overwhelming high numbers to no avail.

Dear, ArenaNet,

Please add a GvG arena, separate the two game modes from one another (GvG and WvWvW), and be done with it. Win-win for everyone.

Thank you.

Adding a GvG arena would not be a win-win. It would still leave a godawful stat buff in WvW. Please get rid of the stat buff.

I actually want to win a fight because my skills and not because a silly buff,
phuk my, right?
And i’m not talking about GVG, just to be clear.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Dear, ArenaNet,

Please add a GvG arena, separate the two game modes from one another (GvG and WvWvW), and be done with it. Win-win for everyone.

Thank you.

What the other guy said. It’s not only GvGers who don’t want the buff. It’s the general WvW population as well.

Furiousbeard.7602:

I believe it would take a high number of man hours to program the ability to turn this ability on and off. Its a great idea, but may not be in the budget or timeline for Anet.

I hope that was a troll post.

Istaf.1953:

Furiousbeard.7602:

I believe it would take a high number of man hours to program the ability to turn this ability on and off. Its a great idea, but may not be in the budget or timeline for Anet.

I hope that was a troll post.

Actually I think the guy might be right, the whole system as in boons, conditions and buffs were never intended to be able to be disabled by the user so the developers havent taken this into account while building it. Now I dont know how deep this goes into the code, but something that sounds that easy could easily take up a day, or maybe a week dependend on how deep it is.

Besides that it is something that another team has built ( if not outsourced ) and also has to change it. Then again, it would change all buffs and then they would have to make exceptions etc etc.

Long story short, its probably more work than creating an empty map without the buff.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

The point is to keep GvG alive. If the new orb system kills GvG (and it might) WvW as a whole will begin to slowly crumble.

Sevir.8975:

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

The point is to keep GvG alive. If the new orb system kills GvG (and it might) WvW as a whole will begin to slowly crumble.

I think that it will obviously affect GvG, but I’m just as concerned about the “big picture” in WvW. While EP does GvG, we spend dozens of hours every week doing standard WvW and using it as a platform for fights and getting better as a guild.

If we wipe a group with even numbers and we have +150 to all stat points, we didn’t really prove too much. We just got an unfair boost because our server has more population than whoever we were facing. Snowballing, as they say.

I think the nature of the buff in general will do harm to WvW as a whole. GvG is just a piece of that.

I genuinely LOVE the mechanic of capture points, and I think that will do wonders for breaking up the blobbing mechanic. Unfortunately the buff is unfair. :-/

scanz.4536:

Devon’s response earlier in the thread quite frankly demonstrates the fact that ANet do not care about the WvW community and its feedback. It also shows their complete lack of connection and understanding with us (the WvW community) because who on earth would have suggested this idea? They have clearly not consulted anyone who actually plays WvW on a regular basis and are again not listening to the feedback. .

It’s strange to me that the sPvP team listens quite intently to what the “top” PvP players have to say, yet the WvW team does exactly the opposite. There are official PvP tournaments with high ranked teams picked for their skill level equality, and in WvW we get “leagues” where every match is practically guaranteed to be a blowout before it even starts.

I don’t know why game companies have this ostrich style approach to the fact that many players want a large scale, siege simulation combat mode which is balanced and competitive.

In the last game I played, my “guild” was invited to participate in an international PvP tournament with pretty nice prizes. We had trouble finding enough people even interested to fill the 6 person team. The weekly siege warfare game was 80v80 and we usually had about 20-30 or more people above the limit on standby hoping to get a spot. There would be hundreds of people standing at the entrance NPCs for the weekly wars. The area where most people did open world, small scale PvP most of the rest of the wekk usually had the same 10ish people hanging around (half stealthed waiting to gank someone).The population of these games interested in large scale battle (in my experience) far exceeds the population interested in small team PvP, but tends to be largely ignored by the developers.

If they had a panel of the top WvW guilds (not top tier servers specifically, just leaders from dedicated WvW guilds) advising changes similar to what they have with sPvP, things would be much better.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

I must say, of all the things Devon has posted, this is the most kitten of them all.

We can choose to play a naked level two, running around as rally bait, but if someone turns off a buff you are lessening the value for your entire server and invalidating the whole point? WTF are you talking about.

I did a little thinking on it.

What if the +stat buff only applied while defending objectives.

The +points on stomp applies everywhere but the +stat buff is only a defensive bonus.

Any thoughts?

Thrashbarg.9820:

It’s strange to me that the sPvP team listens quite intently to what the “top” PvP players have to say, yet the WvW team does exactly the opposite. There are official PvP tournaments with high ranked teams picked for their skill level equality, and in WvW we get “leagues” where every match is practically guaranteed to be a blowout before it even starts.

It is my view that ANET views WvW as a place for the casual, non-competitive players to play and as such the entire system is catered to them. They want the more competitive people to play sPvP and as such work against them being in WvW.

Niim.9260:

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

I must say, of all the things Devon has posted, this is the most kitten of them all.

We can choose to play a naked level two, running around as rally bait, but if someone turns off a buff you are lessening the value for your entire server and invalidating the whole point? WTF are you talking about.

QFT

I’d really like to see his reply to this.

Few things i have trouble with.

Bonuses
150 all stats at max? Have you not learned from orbs? Reason people hated the orbs wasn´t because of how easy they were to exploit, it was because of ridiculous power increase they gave. It´s still going to be the same reason why people will dislike the bloodlust.
When you go against zone blob buffed to the max, you won´t feel happy. But the thing is, if you go against enem while fully buffed yourself, you aren´t going to be any happier when you know you´ve had such a big advantage against them, one you couldn´t do anything about either.

How you keep the bonuses,
even if you lose the capture points. This makes it far too easy for any one person to prevent the buff from being captured, especialy with the speed those things uncap. Server doesn´t need to keep those points under control, nope, it´s enough that there´s one bunker running between them providing enough time for the blob to come and secure the whole thing.
Yes, this won´t discourage blobbing, throwing your full server through the middle will be the fastest way of getting the buff, and then it´s easy to stall it from being transferred to other server long enough for another pass for blob.
Basicly whoever holds the middle first (read, server with most coverage) will have ridiculous advantage when it comes to holding the buff.

where the points are located
Seems nice enough that they are in an easily reachable area, right in the middle. Unfortunantely, they are indeed close for everyone. including blobs. Most big forces will regularly pass through the middle even now when there´s nothing there, when there´s a big juicy buff on the plate the place will be flushed with swarm of people pretty much every other minute, keeping the buff well and secured to the biggest blob out there.
Captured everyhting already? Well go and sit on the middle, keeping the buff well secured and be really close to everything should anything be attacked.

Stomping
Who can stomp in combat? Well roamers for one, it does reward them, small groups, definately. Anyone fighting a big zerg? Not a kittening chance. When you´re wading through red tags, it´s near death sentence to stop. Where as the zerglings can quite comfortably just stop and stomp to their hearts content (if they have enough time from the accidental deeps they land on the downed player). But who would it penalize if all form of killing got the points? Well roamers get their points all the same, as do smaller groups. Zergs get the point just as they would with stomps, but anyone fighting those big blobs would allso rake in points, a lot of them.

not being able to disable the bonus
It´s just beyond ridiculous that you aren´t allowed to make a decision on this. There is absolutely no reason why people shouldn´t be able to disable this. Anyone who cares about point per tick will have it enabled, anyone who cares about the bonus stats will have it enabled, people who don´t want those things for a reason or another (and ther´s a lot of reasons why they wouldn´t want them) don´t, but you´re forcing them to do it. They would want to play a game they bought the way they feel is most rewarding, but you´re going to say, nope we´re going to make you play our way, no matter what. Are you afraid people won´t feel obligated to hold the buff? They will, most of them and thus will feel rewarded for capping it. But if you don´t allow people who don´t want the buff to disable it, i can guarantee there will be unsatisfied players who wanted a fair(er) fight. Disgruntled map chats will be had, leading to very confused and annoyed people, which really isn´t going to make them enjoy the game any more. If on the other hand those people could´ve disabled their buffs nothing would´ve happened.
Are you afraid most people wont´use the buff? Maybe you should think about the buff itself then. Is it a technical limitation? We can wait untill you can get around that, just be a tiniest bit more transparent and tell us. Do you not have enough time to tweak it? See earlier.
If the reason really is that it´s not part of your vision for wvw to be able to disabe the buff, well it might be time you start revising that vision.

All in all this whole thing feels like you´re making us play the game your way no matter what, you´re going to make us like siege wars, ppt, stomps and blobbing even if we don´t want it.

Why not more WXP or MF buff?
Why not GOLD FIND buff?
Why not some moar PVE buff?
Why not some upgrade tower/keep specific buff?
Why not NPC defense buff?
Why not bro, just why not?

How about this: You get extra 5 min buff on lords for each bloodlust that you have?

There are gazillion number of better implementation than the current one and only a few number of worse implementation than the current one.

On a side note: I really want to WvW to get better and trying to help for it.

rhodoc.2381:

Why not more WXP or MF buff?
Why not GOLD FIND buff?
Why not some moar PVE buff?
Why not some upgrade tower/keep specific buff?
Why not NPC defense buff?
Why not bro, just why not?

How about this: You get extra 5 min buff on lords for each bloodlust that you have?

There are gazillion number of better implementation than the current one and only a few number of worse implementation than the current one.

On a side note: I really want to WvW to get better and trying to help for it.

This.

Maybe Bloodlust refreshes your consumable times.
Maybe Bloodlust increases chances for ascended items/materials to drop.

Anything but making more WvW imbalances is going to make things worse.

Make each capture zone a Waypoint, then you’ll have people fighting over them all day.

Xavi.6591:

rhodoc.2381:

Why not more WXP or MF buff?
Why not GOLD FIND buff?
Why not some moar PVE buff?
Why not some upgrade tower/keep specific buff?
Why not NPC defense buff?
Why not bro, just why not?

How about this: You get extra 5 min buff on lords for each bloodlust that you have?

There are gazillion number of better implementation than the current one and only a few number of worse implementation than the current one.

On a side note: I really want to WvW to get better and trying to help for it.

This.

Maybe Bloodlust refreshes your consumable times.
Maybe Bloodlust increases chances for ascended items/materials to drop.

Anything but making more WvW imbalances is going to make things worse.

Asside from the Tower/Keep buff, no commander will care about those buff to warrant them fighting other commanders over it. The Tower/Keep buff could be argueably worse, allowing the strongest side to bunker down thier keeps to nigh untakeable.

the fact that so many people on this thread have stated that they agree with OP and that devon gives a flat out “No.” is actually sickening

Dual.8953:

Asside from the Tower/Keep buff, no commander will care about those buff to warrant them fighting other commanders over it. The Tower/Keep buff could be argueably worse, allowing the strongest side to bunker down thier keeps to nigh untakeable.

But wouldn’t that be a good thing seeing how the middle is suppose to be for smaller fights?

Istaf.1953:

Dual.8953:

Asside from the Tower/Keep buff, no commander will care about those buff to warrant them fighting other commanders over it. The Tower/Keep buff could be argueably worse, allowing the strongest side to bunker down thier keeps to nigh untakeable.

But wouldn’t that be a good thing seeing how the middle is suppose to be for smaller fights?

Not necissarily. If the buff is good enough it could mean the strongest server could capture keeps and towers, and lock them down so hard that none of the opposition would have a hope of retaking anything the server captures. This’d make the playing field pretty much static.
The buff would become a protective shield for their bases.

Dual.8953:

Istaf.1953:

Dual.8953:

Asside from the Tower/Keep buff, no commander will care about those buff to warrant them fighting other commanders over it. The Tower/Keep buff could be argueably worse, allowing the strongest side to bunker down thier keeps to nigh untakeable.

But wouldn’t that be a good thing seeing how the middle is suppose to be for smaller fights?

Not necissarily. If the buff is good enough it could mean the strongest server could capture keeps and towers, and lock them down so hard that none of the opposition would have a hope of retaking anything the server captures. This’d make the playing field pretty much static.
The buff would become a protective shield for their bases.

Was talking about the other buffs :P

Istaf.1953:

Dual.8953:

Istaf.1953:

Dual.8953:

Asside from the Tower/Keep buff, no commander will care about those buff to warrant them fighting other commanders over it. The Tower/Keep buff could be argueably worse, allowing the strongest side to bunker down thier keeps to nigh untakeable.

But wouldn’t that be a good thing seeing how the middle is suppose to be for smaller fights?

Not necissarily. If the buff is good enough it could mean the strongest server could capture keeps and towers, and lock them down so hard that none of the opposition would have a hope of retaking anything the server captures. This’d make the playing field pretty much static.
The buff would become a protective shield for their bases.

Was talking about the other buffs :P

With the others, I can’t see anyone caring who has a loot buff. Only the extremely petty would care that their enemy has increased loot drop. And if that’s the case these control points are an absolute failure. A cheap novelty for karma trainers.

Dual.8953:

With the others, I can’t see anyone caring who has a loot buff. Only the extremely petty would care that their enemy has increased loot drop. And if that’s the case these control points are an absolute failure. A cheap novelty for karma trainers.

Depends what you consider a failure then I guess. If it promotes the smaller group stuff without causing a snowball I would consider it to be a win.

Some interesting points of view. I support the right of players to either turn off the buff or move away from the wvwvw game. I would prefer the former.

I will still be playing regardless, if I do not like changes I choose to spend less in the shop, nothing more nothing less. Good luck all.

I can’t wait to see the outcome of these changes.

In a sick way I want the bloodlust buffs to be so successful it mimicks the failure of the orbs and servers completely steamroll the others into not playing.

But even then, I doubt it would change the mindset of the people responsible for the direction of WVW. Perhaps landslide victories and uneven battles is the goal, which I have to say, will totally turn off players.

On the flip side, if the buffs are a hassle for people to capture and maintain at the expense of defending things on their map like camps, towers and keeps, then the question I would have is, why would it even be implemented.

Thrashbarg.9820:

It’s strange to me that the sPvP team listens quite intently to what the “top” PvP players have to say, yet the WvW team does exactly the opposite. There are official PvP tournaments with high ranked teams picked for their skill level equality, and in WvW we get “leagues” where every match is practically guaranteed to be a blowout before it even starts.

Very good point, interesting that they realise that to some extent that have to accommodate the small scale PvP community but they completely disregard the hardcore WvW community.

morrolan.9608:

Very good point, interesting that they realise that to some extent that have to accommodate the small scale PvP community but they completely disregard the hardcore WvW community.

Because it easy to define the PvP community.

Who the hell is the “hardcore WvW community”? Is it the PPT guilds? Is it the roaming guilds? Is it the GvG guilds? Is it the guilds who do some of all?

This is mostly something I want to see for GvGs. GvG guilds still raid in WvW, and they use Applied Fortitude, weapon stacks, and Guard Leech to their advantage, but the beauty of those buffs is that there are simple ways to remove them (i.e. downed state) in order to make GvG fair. The simple ability to at least counter this buff by some means, like a consumable you can purchase with badges to cause -50 to those same 6 stats that stacks up to 3 times would save an entire community. Even if they had to take another month in order to implement such a thing, people would at least know to hope for that and hang on for that. And you’d have to earn badges in order to buy it? So you’d have to do actual WvW, which we already do. A lot.

(Jump puzzles aside…)

Vena.8436:

morrolan.9608:

Very good point, interesting that they realise that to some extent that have to accommodate the small scale PvP community but they completely disregard the hardcore WvW community.

Because it easy to define the PvP community.

Who the hell is the “hardcore WvW community”? Is it the PPT guilds? Is it the roaming guilds? Is it the GvG guilds? Is it the guilds who do some of all?

It was all of them until the randomized match ups. Now the PPT guilds are obsolete because theres no possible way for a server like CD to take on TC in regards to PPT. It’s not a skill gap, it’s a population gap and there’s nothing they could of done that week.