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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

- New amazing looking PvE map that relies on WvW mechanics
- West part of the map looks like a GvG map teaser
- Little area to show us that open world PvP is quite possible and easy (we could have optional duels, opens possibilities for battle arenas)
- Finally an amazing Living story glass/crystal area that would be a perfect ambience for a dungeon or PvP arena but instead is made to be played alone

Is this a teaser of things to come? Competitive players have been waiting for new content for a year…

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Posted by: Synosius.9876

Synosius.9876

Why dont our wvw traits work in silverwastes? Maybe pve’rs will join wvw/eotm so they can farm the new map harder or shed tears of frustration that we can do something better. Either way is good.

It would just be fun. Indigo needs mortar 5 cause they are placed badly and hit the over hang.

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Posted by: Fuzzion.2504

Fuzzion.2504

You mean teasing us since 2007 about WvWvW? 6 years is a long tease imo 0_o

Fuzzionx [SF]
Guest member of [LOVE]
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Posted by: Baldrick.8967

Baldrick.8967

- New amazing looking PvE map that relies on WvW mechanics
- West part of the map looks like a GvG map teaser
- Little area to show us that open world PvP is quite possible and easy (we could have optional duels, opens possibilities for battle arenas)
- Finally an amazing Living story glass/crystal area that would be a perfect ambience for a dungeon or PvP arena but instead is made to be played alone

Is this a teaser of things to come? Competitive players have been waiting for new content for a year…

Nope, you have it the wrong way around- it shows their complete lack of intention of doing anything at all to wvw.

WvW player. Doing another world completion for my next Legendary. Hater of mini-games.

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Posted by: Johje Holan.4607

Johje Holan.4607

What’re you all talking about?

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Posted by: Piteous.4165

Piteous.4165

The new pve map is like a kick in the teeth to wvw players. They have told us for over a year that it takes to long to make new maps, but they come out with a map, that with a little work, would be great for wvw.

Blackgate
Stay frosty! Keep it tight!

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Posted by: Styles.7469

Styles.7469

If use of siege is the idea behind saying, “Oh, PvE has WvW mechanics now.” then…uhhh….

=\

The use of siege in PvE isn’t as uncommon as people are making it out to believe. It happens throughout the personal story instances and is even a forced part on some of them (using a treb to destroy a ship in “Battle for Claw Island.”)

I don’t get to spike enemies, I’m not fighting other players, objectives being captured/defended have always been a part of the evolution of a players’ experience (Centaurs raiding and taking over Seraph holds), and you cannot effectively blob one objective to another without facing dire consequences that ultimately set back the entire schematic laid out for us. WvW mechanics? Not quite I’d say.

But…the idea behind the map is pretty interesting. I do like the motivation to travel afoot for a majority of the map (smart move with good reason), I do like that there’s a sense of urgency to complete and stay at an objective rather than just grind it out for a small bundle of disappointing rewards. Amongst many other things, this is a decently balanced map that DOES have potential for open world PvP, GvG area, new WvW maps, community development, and also a richness into the lore of parts Tyria have long since forgotten.

I have a low tolerance for stupidity.

(edited by Styles.7469)

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Posted by: GOSU.9574

GOSU.9574

They know WvW is stale and dead. They can only lure PvEers to WvW with promises of brief rewards like Hero skins. EotM thrives due to PvE content with an overly abundant WvW reward payout.

It would take to much energy for them to get off their collective backsides and infuse excitement and newness into WvW, they would have to create things, and with the terrible rewards WvW gives, no one would care to WvW just for new maps.

Hey dude you are walking into a wall.

smack..Wut?…smack…smack…

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

What’re you all talking about?

The new Silverwaste map and LS has stuff that could be used for PvP, open world PvP, dungeons, WvW and GvG yet it’s all at the service of the Living Story.

Either they are teasing us of things to come or as someone else mentioned, they are just adding to the insult of all these game mode not getting content.

ESO is going to have Open World PvP soon with a bounty system, I don’t understand why Anet can’t find the courage to do it first.

(edited by Xillllix.3485)

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Posted by: SpellOfIniquity.1780

SpellOfIniquity.1780

Guild Wars 2 has, without a doubt, the nicest MMO community. I believe a part of the reason behind that is because a) there is no holy trinity. People can’t beat you up for being a bad healer, tank or DPS. There are of course disputes about how to use your profession properly but I think the direct insults and general unpleasantness that comes with the holy trinity is a lot less prevalent thanks to GW2’s design. And b) because there is no option to duel people in the open world. Although yes, GW2 has PvP options, they are in separate instances. This keeps arguments and competitive people confined to those areas to have their verbal and in-game battles while keeping other areas of the game free from hatefulness.

Let me be clear that I am fully aware of the axxholery that occurs during open world champ farms, dungeons and general trolling. But if you’ve ever played a game such as for example, DC Universe Online, where there is open world PvP, it’s like always being in a Heart Of The Mists map. There are always people yelling at and insulting each other and it’s a very unpleasant environment. I enjoy PvP from time to time but I also enjoy that when I go some place like Lion’s Arch or Divinity’s Reach I won’t see or have to deal with people trying to show me their kitten, bragging about how tough they are and how bad I am, or how bad someone else is.

tldr; I don’t want to live in HOTM. Open world PvP would turn open world in to HOTM and we’d see nothing but people flaunting their fantasized superiority and putting other’s down to indulge their over-inflated egos. If you want open world PvP, solo roam in WvW.

Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

Next

I think you’ve said a lot, SpellOfIniquity, and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

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Posted by: BirdSong.2541

BirdSong.2541

I think you’ve said a lot, SpellOfIniquity, and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

One persons thoughts out of 10 unfortunately.
Those are not good odds.
Still <3 you though Gaile

Attachments:

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(edited by BirdSong.2541)

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

I think you’ve said a lot, SpellOfIniquity, and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

TY Gaile but you are replying to someone who was largely off topic. The purpose of this thread isn’t to sell people the idea that open world PvP would be fun (we know this already, as long as it is properly incorporated into the game, ex: arena system in a city, specific overflows, etc).
The purpose of this thread is to highlight the strange feeling that the new PvE content could serve existing game modes but doesn’t. There is a huge quality difference between the graphic and gameplay details of the latest Living Story release and old WvW maps which haven’t been updated since the lake was removed form the borderlands. When we see so much energy go toward the creating of a living story episode that most people will only play once and farm for a month we end up wondering why isn’t the same amount of energy spent on making new WvW and PvP maps that will be played for years.

Then the issue of a GvG mode we’ve been asking for since the release of GW2, where a simple cut and paste (with some modifications) of a region of the new PvE content would certainly work for a GvG battleground with 2 keeps.

However you must know this since you designed them. Therefore we can only wonder why isn’t new WvW content released along the Living Story releases?

As for Open World PvP, it is good or bad only depending on the method by which it is implemented. It’s obvious that a simple large scale PvP system wouldn’t be fun for everyone. However a simple dueling option outside of cities, or an arena, a bounty system, are all things that would work without wrecking the fragile heart of people that just want to get their dailies done.

(edited by Xillllix.3485)

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Posted by: SpellOfIniquity.1780

SpellOfIniquity.1780

I think you’ve said a lot, SpellOfIniquity, and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Thank you for (I assume) sharing my opinion ^^.

I understand people’s desire to have open world PvP but I’ve done a lot of PvP in various different games, I’m a competitive person… And I can tell you first hand that PvP can bring out the worst in people. I’d hate to see that kind of behavior anywhere in Tyria.

Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

I think you’ve said a lot, SpellOfIniquity, and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Thank you for (I assume) sharing my opinion ^^.

I understand people’s desire to have open world PvP but I’ve done a lot of PvP in various different games, I’m a competitive person… And I can tell you first hand that PvP can bring out the worst in people. I’d hate to see that kind of behavior anywhere in Tyria.

Why? Dueling on top of mount maelstrom would be epic. Being afraid people will argue isn’t a good argument against open world PvP. And this isn’t other games, it’s GW2, it can be done differently.

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

Previous

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

I think you’ve said a lot, SpellOfIniquity, and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

One persons thoughts out of 10 unfortunately.
Those are not good odds.
Still <3 you though Gaile

<3 you too, BirdSong. I read the whole thread, but there were words in Spell’s comments that reverberated with me. I can’t pull every post and comment, but sometimes, it’s nice to give a thumbs up to…. Oh you know what I mean, eh?

Xillllix — understood. Thanks for the summing up, I think you did it fairly (and that’s not always easy when someone feels strongly about a subject) and well.

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

Xillllix — understood. Thanks for the summing up, I think you did it fairly (and that’s not always easy when someone feels strongly about a subject) and well.

Thanks to you as well!

I enjoy everything you guys do and play all of it, but I prefer competitive content and hardcore PvE (Fractals, dungeons and SAB).

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Posted by: Falx.8427

Falx.8427

Yeah, let’s all agree with 1 out of thousands of players, what a wonderful idea. We’re not giving WvW player’s a lot of attention, but when we do, we agree with the one player who’s against (most likely) 90 % of the rest.

Amplified Wrath [AmP]
Badmash [bM]
Furious Cookies [FURY]

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Posted by: Reverence.6915

Reverence.6915

I enjoyed Silverwastes immensely and wondered why the yak/supply mechanic there wasn’t used for WvW in the first place. Supply camps are a nice idea and all, but it just doesn’t work well when it takes only 1 person a couple minutes at most to take it. Much better to just have constant supply yaks running out of spawn towards objectives you own at a decent run speed. The spawning enemies on the yaks path also will make yak walking much more interesting than the occasional centaur or krait.

Expac sucks for WvW players. Asura master race
Beastgate | Faerie Law
Currently residing on SBI

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Posted by: Zaxares.5419

Zaxares.5419

It DOES puzzle me that WvW players with points in various siege masteries can’t take advantage of those in PvE though. (We already saw this back during the Marionette battle. Players with Ballista/AC mastery didn’t have access to their superior abilities even while using the siege machines.) It would be very nice for players who’ve spent time in WvW to have their experience acknowledge and rewarded.

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Posted by: Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Guild Wars 2 has, without a doubt, the nicest MMO community. I believe a part of the reason behind that is because a) there is no holy trinity. People can’t beat you up for being a bad healer, tank or DPS. There are of course disputes about how to use your profession properly but I think the direct insults and general unpleasantness that comes with the holy trinity is a lot less prevalent thanks to GW2’s design. And b) because there is no option to duel people in the open world. Although yes, GW2 has PvP options, they are in separate instances. This keeps arguments and competitive people confined to those areas to have their verbal and in-game battles while keeping other areas of the game free from hatefulness.

Let me be clear that I am fully aware of the axxholery that occurs during open world champ farms, dungeons and general trolling. But if you’ve ever played a game such as for example, DC Universe Online, where there is open world PvP, it’s like always being in a Heart Of The Mists map. There are always people yelling at and insulting each other and it’s a very unpleasant environment. I enjoy PvP from time to time but I also enjoy that when I go some place like Lion’s Arch or Divinity’s Reach I won’t see or have to deal with people trying to show me their kitten, bragging about how tough they are and how bad I am, or how bad someone else is.

tldr; I don’t want to live in HOTM. Open world PvP would turn open world in to HOTM and we’d see nothing but people flaunting their fantasized superiority and putting other’s down to indulge their over-inflated egos. If you want open world PvP, solo roam in WvW.

That is a bit harsh towards PvP players to be honest ^^, yet it’s true.
A person who is insulting finds himself alone talking to empty space very quickly.
The ignore button isn’t hard to find.

Yet open world pvp doesn’t have to be ignored as an option if you look at the games that have it implemented.
Also introducing a competitive factor to maps like Drytop and Silverwastes could also thrive because of it, i enjoyed hunting down Asurans to capture their yellow parachute thingies. now imagine it in competitive form with 2 opposing teams each having to hunt down these Asurans and having the capability to fight the opposing team in a certain way. Lets say the fighting can be done trough entering a area of pvp in a small part of the competitive map where the event takes place.

Or as shown trough taking to a npc.

I wouldn’t separate pvp and pve simply because of the fear of silly people.
I see Xillllix beat me to it, should read whole thread before posting ^^

54 infractions and counting because a moderator doesn’t understand a joke when he/she sees it.
E.A.D.

(edited by Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046)

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Posted by: Zaklex.6308

Zaklex.6308

I think you’ve said a lot, SpellOfIniquity, and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Thank you for (I assume) sharing my opinion ^^.

I understand people’s desire to have open world PvP but I’ve done a lot of PvP in various different games, I’m a competitive person… And I can tell you first hand that PvP can bring out the worst in people. I’d hate to see that kind of behavior anywhere in Tyria.

Why? Dueling on top of mount maelstrom would be epic. Being afraid people will argue isn’t a good argument against open world PvP. And this isn’t other games, it’s GW2, it can be done differently.

Xillix, SpellofIniquity is not afraid of people arguing in OW PvP, he’s stating a fact, arguing will happen, it will splinter the community, it will destroy the game(those are my opinions, but there’s plenty of history and evidence to support it.

I know WvW needs work, but new maps are not going to fix the problems…fix all the other problems, and you shouldn’t need new maps to fight on, the map should not be the focus, the focus is supposed to be on server vs server vs server(but that is sort of not there right now).

P.S. – There’s more than one person working on WvWvW.

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

Xillix, SpellofIniquity is not afraid of people arguing in OW PvP, he’s stating a fact, arguing will happen, it will splinter the community, it will destroy the game(those are my opinions, but there’s plenty of history and evidence to support it.

Dueling didn’t destroy Diablo 3 it saved it. It’s going to save ESO as well with their bounty/prison system.

Saying that optional dueling between friends will “destroy” Guild Wars 2 is just too much. It will not change anything for people who do not want to see it as it can easily be deactivated outside of cities. They could even make PvP overflows or specific arenas. You will be able to keep farming nodes and doing map completion as you’ve always done, except now other people will also be having fun practicing their skills against one another.

Presuming the worse of people and stopping the development of something because of that isn’t how things should work, else you might as well go back to life in the dark ages.

(edited by Xillllix.3485)

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Posted by: GOSU.9574

GOSU.9574

Not all content is for all folks. I really do not like the jumpy, glitzy, hurly content, such as Dry Top. Thus, I do not spend time in Dry Top.

If we were to discuss a move in the direction of some maps being open world PvP, and you don’t like that, don’t go there. However why reinvent modes that already exist in the game and could use some sprucing up and changes, like WvW? Why bother with open world PvP? The mode is there, it is just stale and dead. Making an open world PvP map that never sees updates or changes will stale and die just the same.

However, that being said, it would be megaserver competition and not just your server or server vs server (unless they implemented team combat, but we have that in PvP).

Hey dude you are walking into a wall.

smack..Wut?…smack…smack…

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Posted by: pdavis.8031

pdavis.8031

- New amazing looking PvE map that relies on WvW mechanics
- West part of the map looks like a GvG map teaser
- Little area to show us that open world PvP is quite possible and easy (we could have optional duels, opens possibilities for battle arenas)
- Finally an amazing Living story glass/crystal area that would be a perfect ambience for a dungeon or PvP arena but instead is made to be played alone

Is this a teaser of things to come? Competitive players have been waiting for new content for a year…

I agree, there are some very cool things that can be done with this new map, and other areas introduced in the LS. However, I believe the area you are referring to about open world PvP, was actually a bug, and not intended as it has been fixed.

•Fixed an issue in which players who paid to safely enter a bandit camp in the Silverwastes were attackable by normal players.

However, it does show that the mechanics can be used for open world PvP (open world referring to arenas and special areas to do such things, as I feel a completely open world PvP would not be very popular in this game, and with the way co-operation is encouraged and needed in PvE, just wouldn’t fit very well IMO) and may be a foreshadowing of things to come.

“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

I will say that I like the new map, with its little bit of wvw-ishness. However, I hope they never implement open world pvp. I am with Spell in that regard.

In true GW tradition, let pvp remain in the Mists.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

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Posted by: Chris.3290

Chris.3290

The mechanics in the Silverwastes is fantastic and I love the update, but people here have a marvelous point in that it could be the groundwork for a truly perception-shattering change to PvP in GW2.

Players have been clamoring for a happy, more balanced medium in PvP. Most people call it GvG in a nod to the excellent format in the previous title; but a large number of players that I talk to would love to see an ArenaNet supported format for teams of 15-20.

I’ve been to meet and greet events and I know your folks are pestered about guild capes, halls, and GvG at every single one.
Look at how popular the Obsidian Sanctum has been with many players! You have PvE zones that are more interesting and beautiful; but do they bring back players every night (no fair counting world bosses!)

WvW players ARE the most difficult to please players in the game and “why bother” is probably a tempting option; but I don’t know a single WvW player who is not pumped by the idea of more guild-centric options in the game.

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Posted by: Jeknar.6184

Jeknar.6184

I don’t know a single WvW player who is not pumped by the idea of more guild-centric options in the game.

Pleased to meet you… As a member of a small guild, I’m not interested in guild centric mechanics as they are more likely to favor larger guilds over smaller ones (who already have a lot of issues with the upgrading process)

Kawagima / Kelvena Riverstream / Calamis Fatima / Hanna Flintlocke
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Posted by: McWolfy.5924

McWolfy.5924

The new pve map is like a kick in the teeth to wvw players. They have told us for over a year that it takes to long to make new maps, but they come out with a map, that with a little work, would be great for wvw.

True story bro

WSR→Piken→Deso→Piken→FSP→Deso
Just the WvW
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Posted by: Raap.9065

Raap.9065

Yes, it is quite unfortunate that ArenaNet can find the time for PvE maps, but is unwilling to even bother converting existing PvE maps into WvW maps, which has been requested just as much. Having a map rotation system that swaps out borderlands maps for different PvE maps with WvW objectives on them would do miracles for keeping WvW fresh.

Silverwastes, although fun PvE content, does feel like a slap in the face for WvW players (and also the fact the siege equipment doesn’t benefit from WvW rank abilities). Not to mention the loot inconsistency, as this thread here points out nicely: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Reward-imbalance-Silverwastes-vs-WvW/first#content

But here is to hoping they really are working on WvW content behind the scenes...

Swift Mending – Guardian
Thorny Scrub – Thief
Desolation

(edited by Raap.9065)

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Posted by: McWolfy.5924

McWolfy.5924

Btw a if they work on a dota mode i wont be angry (+wvw map ofc)

WSR→Piken→Deso→Piken→FSP→Deso
Just the WvW
R3200+

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Posted by: Jeknar.6184

Jeknar.6184

Btw a if they work on a dota mode i wont be angry (+wvw map ofc)

No plz…

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WvW Rank 3800 (Platinum Veteran) – PvP Rank 69 (Shark) – 25,9k Achievment Points
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Posted by: Reverence.6915

Reverence.6915

Btw a if they work on a dota mode i wont be angry (+wvw map ofc)

No plz…

yes pls…

Expac sucks for WvW players. Asura master race
Beastgate | Faerie Law
Currently residing on SBI

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Posted by: Chris.3290

Chris.3290

I don’t know a single WvW player who is not pumped by the idea of more guild-centric options in the game.

Pleased to meet you… As a member of a small guild, I’m not interested in guild centric mechanics as they are more likely to favor larger guilds over smaller ones (who already have a lot of issues with the upgrading process)

Obviously there should be a balance and should not exclusively cater to guilds that accept anybody and everybody just for influence and numbers.

Much like the guild halls in Gw1 everything a large guild can get a small one should be able to add as well, though it would take more time.

There are a lot of ways they could implement this that could be fun and add a new dimension. Yet another opportunity they have left on the vine.

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Posted by: Otokomae.9356

Otokomae.9356

Btw a if they work on a dota mode i wont be angry (+wvw map ofc)

No plz…

yes pls…

Just replace the “Conquest Circles” in sPvP with the DotA 2 concepts of lanes and destroying structures, but keep GW2’s combat system. I mean, sPvP is already basically a MOBA, it’s just a bad one…

Bakuon/Bakuon Thief [MAS]/ ex-[ATac]

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Posted by: Reverence.6915

Reverence.6915

Btw a if they work on a dota mode i wont be angry (+wvw map ofc)

No plz…

yes pls…

Just replace the “Conquest Circles” in sPvP with the DotA 2 concepts of lanes and destroying structures, but keep GW2’s combat system. I mean, sPvP is already basically a MOBA, it’s just a bad one…

The concept isn’t new. Check out the game Smite. 3d 3rd person moba.

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Posted by: Otokomae.9356

Otokomae.9356

Btw a if they work on a dota mode i wont be angry (+wvw map ofc)

No plz…

yes pls…

Just replace the “Conquest Circles” in sPvP with the DotA 2 concepts of lanes and destroying structures, but keep GW2’s combat system. I mean, sPvP is already basically a MOBA, it’s just a bad one…

The concept isn’t new. Check out the game Smite. 3d 3rd person moba.

Yeah, but I’d want to keep GW2’s theorycrafting, rather than selecting from a list of playable characters like in Smite (or DotA, or LoL). Complex theorycrafting for individual characters is what’s really missing from those games, as any theorycrafting that happens in most MOBAs revolves simply around selecting together 5 compatible, pre-built characters.

WAY off-topic btw, sorry everyone. But yeah, if GW2 still has aspirations of making sPvP into an “esport”, emulating what works in some of the more popular MOBAs is a good start, but keeping what makes GW2 interesting is important as well, of course.

Bakuon/Bakuon Thief [MAS]/ ex-[ATac]

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Posted by: Nightshade.2570

Nightshade.2570

Actually, Implementing a system similar to WvW only helps WvWers. I don’t know how many posts I have read where WvWers have complained about PVEers in WvW. I personally dont agree I think PVEers are the new blood that keeps WvW different and interesting. However I can see both sides of the coin and have seen a group wipe to downs.

It is my theory that acclimating to this style of PVE version of WvW helps give a hint at the fun in WvW and some knowledge of basic systems and applications in WvW. It makes WvW more navigatible and less scary and unknown.

As a former PVE Carebear myself, I speak from experience when I say it is not easy to step into WvW especially if you do not have friend support and it takes a certain awakening and understanding of the game to move there if you don’t start out as some do, eating breathing and sleeping WvW/PvP.

So I can find no better spot to look for potential new WvWers then here in the new areas such as this.

Anet Teasing Us?

in WvW

Posted by: style.6173

style.6173

They know WvW is stale and dead. They can only lure PvEers to WvW with promises of brief rewards like Hero skins. EotM thrives due to PvE content with an overly abundant WvW reward payout.

It would take to much energy for them to get off their collective backsides and infuse excitement and newness into WvW, they would have to create things, and with the terrible rewards WvW gives, no one would care to WvW just for new maps.

I don’t think they actually believe that WvW is in trouble. There was an interview with the WvW lead over the summer and he said that player population numbers have remained stable. That means one of two things:

1. He lied. I doubt this since anyone with half a brain knows there are less people in WvW than a year ago
2. He is counting EotM into the total WvW number and doesn’t realize that people are in that map to karma train. If they rewards were nerfed, people would leave.