Guild Wars 2

Since Anet seems to think that Lower Rank servers were just unlucky with the point system before and we really just had the population hiding in the corner

grin

world population, and dedicated WvW population are 2 completely different things.

Crystal Desert (T4) is putting up a tough fight against Yak’s Bend (T3) and Kaineng (T3).

All scores are within 1500 points of each other. CD seems to be second during NA and second during Oceanic/SEA.

http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/map/731

this is the weekend fights, as it settles to the weekday, it will be very very different…

This new match up system is worse than the old one for lower tier servers. Doesn’t take a genius to predict that.

For example, Eradon terrace was ranked with HoD and Fc in the last match up. They got hammered hard especially in the last week or 2.

Now, Not only are they ranked with HoD again -which was the number 1 in that Tier by a big margin in the past 2 weeks or so- but they are also ranked with Sorrow’s furnace which is currently pulverizing HoD due to their zergy numbers. Its 8am now and I see a zerg of 25-30 running in EB.

Now ET just has zero chance of winning or enjoying a good match up.

Terrible system. The only way to fix the wvw imbalances is to low Tier servers or allow free transfers to low Tier servers – though I doubt that would help much-. Otherwise, the match ups will just be worse and very unenjoyable for the lower tier server Since WvW pve favors numbers over skill.

As a sorrow’s Furnace solo/duo roamer, I hate this matchup. Atleast with the other one I had a chance of being zerged as much as the other servers because it was semi balanced. While HoD does have some good players to fight, I pretty much haven’t seen much compared to T6 weekends. You can’t fix WvW by doing this. It will only bleed more people. Either go back to the old system or find a way to get more players on lower tiers. Free transfers are a good idea.

XII.9401:

Otherwise, the match ups will just be worse and very unenjoyable for the lower tier server Since WvW pve favors numbers over skill.

I disagree with that. WvW favor skilled players, with tactically sound commanders, in constant voice communication, over mindless zergs. The only time numbers has an overwhelming effect is when a combination of the for-mentioned factors are in play with the overwhelmingly larger numbers.

If you have a group of “free lance players”;aka pugs, that know how to do these basic things. Stack, quickly build, get supply when out, and push on commander’s pin. You will have the foundation to overcome a larger number. When this is combined with a large number on Team Speak following a tactically sound and experienced commander, you will over come a force twice your size in open field.

As a commander the size of my people is only a factor to me when I know that I can not rely on those people to follow my direction. When I am leading my guild Firebat or our ally Red Essence I don’t care what I am facing. We will overcome and wipe anybody on the field up to our size. If the enemy zerg we are facing is clearly disorganized we will wipe you outnumbered two and a half to one. Originzation > raw numbers.

6 of the 8 NA match ups aren’t very good. The two exceptions are T1 (which didn’t change) and T4 (which is the #8, #9 and #11 ranked servers).

The one up and one down system would have produced dramatically better results.

Peetee.9406:

The one up and one down system would have produced dramatically better results.

I can’t agree with you there. In a quick count, I saw 3 servers that moved more than one tier up or down. With 1U1D, you’d have servers in every tier (except 1 and 8 ) that were 2 tiers away from each other last week.

I’m not sure I’m a fan of the new system — I was worried about mismatches when they announced it — but some servers are doing better than expected. Look at the rating points Sea of Sorrows and Crystal Desert are gaining right now. No, SoS isn’t winning, but they’re fighting like wolverines in tier 2.

Clearly the glicko numbers weren’t predicting actual performance, as many of the lower-ranked servers are shown gaining points right now.

Maybe alternating weeks would work. After 2 or 3 straight weeks of these random-weighted matchups to allow the glicko to repair its numbers a bit, do one week of straight tiers followed by 1 week of random-weighted. Rinse, repeat. Guaranteed the most balanced matchups one week with a chance for some variety the next.

T7 EU ruins of surmia fighting in T5 and playing well!

Cradorell.3941:

T7 EU ruins of surmia fighting in T5 and playing well!

Well RoS got a decent influx of WvW guild some time ago (included RioT ) so was expected to climb the ladder, sooner or later.

This matchmaking has only speed up the process, so not really a surprise.

Cradorell.3941:

T7 EU ruins of surmia fighting in T5 and playing well!

Eh? Surmia is not fighting T5 servers, you’re just all in T5 due to the random matchup. Currently you’re fighting the two weakest servers from last weeks tier 6 and you’re 3rd, which as server who finished 1st in tier 7 last week is to be expected..

no need to bite my head off!

The system does allow for a faster escalation or lowering of rating to place a server in it’s proper rating. I don’t know how it is on other servers but DB was climbing extremely fast and dominating tier 2 until a few weeks ago. What changed? FA and TC decided to ignore each others maps and push only DB. They keep their own border lands and constantly push DB’s border land and pushing DB on EB. While aiding each other in capturing major objectives. Such as FA hits a keep TC stands guard against reinforcements at the gate. Or they push together against the keep then once inner is broken the other goes and guards the entry points. So freaking tired of that crap. The old system allowed servers to make an informal agreement to hold down another server, and ignore each other.

The new system makes it a bit harder because of the lack of history between the servers. It also allows lower tier servers to gain points quicker by facing higher tier servers and preforming against them. But also punishes higher tier servers when they are placed against servers that have no business fighting against.

LunarFault.6780:

The system does allow for a faster escalation or lowering of rating to place a server in it’s proper rating. I don’t know how it is on other servers but DB was climbing extremely fast and dominating tier 2 until a few weeks ago. What changed?

Don’t worry bro DB is doing just fine.

Calsifer.6079:

Crystal Desert (T4) is putting up a tough fight against Yak’s Bend (T3) and Kaineng (T3).

All scores are within 1500 points of each other. CD seems to be second during NA and second during Oceanic/SEA.

http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/map/731

CD is already losing by 4k and the weekend isn’t even over..

Its bloody obvious CD is going to lose that matchup

LunarFault.6780:

What changed? FA and TC decided to ignore each others maps and push only DB. They keep their own border lands and constantly push DB’s border land and pushing DB on EB. While aiding each other in capturing major objectives. Such as FA hits a keep TC stands guard against reinforcements at the gate. Or they push together against the keep then once inner is broken the other goes and guards the entry points.

‘What changed’ at least for me was seeing fewer and fewer DB in the times they would previously swarm and overrun us (Oceania/SEA prime). It became easier to hold them off with the stuff the NA shift had capped and upgraded, and (maybe because it wasn’t futile any longer) we seemed to have more people appear at those times to do it.

Also, while it’s sometimes just logical to attack the greater threat to you, I can’t say I personally saw that level of co-operation. It sounds to me more like ‘oh hey they’ve broken in, let’s go look… nope, too many in there, we’ll camp stragglers at the gates’. I might occasionally not attack one or two players (if they look like they’re duelling for instance, or doing some environmental thing) but you can’t trust large groups. Even if a majority agreed not to attack you for some reason, they can’t actually stop the rest from doing it.

Xsorus.2507:

Calsifer.6079:

Crystal Desert (T4) is putting up a tough fight against Yak’s Bend (T3) and Kaineng (T3).

All scores are within 1500 points of each other. CD seems to be second during NA and second during Oceanic/SEA.

http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/map/731

CD is already losing by 4k and the weekend isn’t even over..

Its bloody obvious CD is going to lose that matchup

The most annoying thing about all of this is, with the old system, SoS would have fought CD and Ehmry Bay this week (probably still a mismatch, but nothing like what is going to happen this week) and SBI would have moved down to fight Borlis Pass and Anvil Rock. That would have been a far superior match to what SBI got with the new system (SBI is actually gaining rating right now despite being one if not two tiers above where they should be). Servers like SBI (who were about to drop a tier) shouldn’t be going up a tier with this new system, and servers like SoS (who should have gone up a tier) shouldn’t be skipping a tier altogether. I don’t know how they let this happen but it’s a bad result and the score board right now makes that very clear.

Yeah, if the match keeps looking as lopsided as it currently does, expect servers to start packing it in because they’ve been mismatched for the week. How accurate will the rating be then? I don’t see why SoS has to be mismatched for a week to move to the tier they should have gone to (tier three, even people not on SoS can tell that’s where SoS should be this week). Why do we need some complicated formula which isn’t moving servers to the tiers they obviously belong in, or only does so after weeks of mismatches? You could manually do a better job than the ratings currently are doing.

LameFox.6349:

‘What changed’ at least for me was seeing fewer and fewer DB in the times they would previously swarm and overrun us (Oceania/SEA prime). It became easier to hold them off with the stuff the NA shift had capped and upgraded, and (maybe because it wasn’t futile any longer) we seemed to have more people appear at those times to do it.

Also, while it’s sometimes just logical to attack the greater threat to you, I can’t say I personally saw that level of co-operation. It sounds to me more like ‘oh hey they’ve broken in, let’s go look… nope, too many in there, we’ll camp stragglers at the gates’. I might occasionally not attack one or two players (if they look like they’re duelling for instance, or doing some environmental thing) but you can’t trust large groups. Even if a majority agreed not to attack you for some reason, they can’t actually stop the rest from doing it.

You are right about the SEA coverage. WvW is about coverage and DB does have holes it needs to patch. We depend on our SEA coverage because our morning EST and EU, is not so high, and NA is respectable but needs some reinforcement. The people you have been seeing during SEA, are mostly EST people. I play during SEA time and most people so far seems to be on the east coast. NNK and TFV have been out and you do see them. But it is a pale shadow of the numbers they were fielding prior to the recent transfers.

As for the double teaming I have witnessed this for the past few weeks. I did not transfer to DB until two weeks ago, but from talking to DB natives it was not like that, till the recent transfers. While nobody will admit it is a purposeful 2v1 the maps don’t lie. TC doesn’t hardly mess with FA. FA doesn’t hardly mess with TC. FA and TC constantly push DB.

TC or FA members have stated in previous threads, on this subject, that they got annoyed at DB, and they were just fighting each other before kinda ignoring us. Stating that is the reason why DB dominated Tier 2, until the last 2 weeks. I can not comment on this because I was not here during that time. I can only state my own observations of what is going on all 4 maps.

It probably is a mixture of all the things stated. Our Taiwanese guilds taking a recess to probably see what the new transfers do. The fact FA and TC will push DBBL and DB on EB before they hit each other on the DB or EB map. I do not see really much other than supply camps being taken on FA or TCBL by the other respective servers.

I just wish the Taiwanese guilds understood that the transfers are mostly reinforcing NA prime time. We need them to cover SEA because it is a server effort, NA can’t carry 24/7.

As it stands now we have very good match ups during NA time and dwindle away during SEA, PST, and EU. This is even during a blatant 2v1 all week. DB has done quite well under this situation. The previous time spent in tier 2, paints a different story on what this server is capable of, compared to the crap trolls are talking about DB’s performance the past 3 weeks.

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/history/35

As you can see we did quite well the first 2 weeks we entered Tier 2. After that our SEA coverage went away.

Lol DB’s SEA does NOT shirk a fight.

DB regularly ticked 400+ during SEA against TC and FA throughout the course of that matchup.

On the other hand NA just disappeared apart from AGG in the last 2 weeks of the matchup.

Rawr.5930:

Lol DB’s SEA does NOT shirk a fight.

DB regularly ticked 400+ during SEA against TC and FA throughout the course of that matchup.

On the other hand NA just disappeared apart from AGG in the last 2 weeks of the matchup.

Really? My memory of db sea was avoid fights till everyone goes to sleep then golem rush every map. They are going to get flogged so bad when they fight another server that actually has a sea presence.

Xsorus.2507:

Calsifer.6079:

Crystal Desert (T4) is putting up a tough fight against Yak’s Bend (T3) and Kaineng (T3).

All scores are within 1500 points of each other. CD seems to be second during NA and second during Oceanic/SEA.

http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/map/731

CD is already losing by 4k and the weekend isn’t even over..

Its bloody obvious CD is going to lose that matchup

We may not win, but we are definitely not backing down. Our SEA/Oceanic are holding their own, I think our EU contingent is actually giving us a tick lead and we seem to be competing pretty well with YB’s NA crew. I wouldn’t be surprised is we sneak up on YB’s point lead over the next couple days.

Some quite long answers on here. From what I’m reading here, the short answer to the original question is “No”.

To quote Iago from Aladdin, “I think I’m going to have a heart attack and die of not surprise.”

Has the answer been yes for any of the last couple of weeks? The results have become boringly predictable (which is why Anet has made this change).

Roo Stercogburn.9671:

Some quite long answers on here. From what I’m reading here, the short answer to the original question is “No”.

To quote Iago from Aladdin, “I think I’m going to have a heart attack and die of not surprise.”

Depends on what you define as winning. Having kitten loads of fun while gaining massive amounts of rating (three whole ranks so far)from your opponents as well as dominating during the servers prime time, to me that’s a win.

I think the problem is that the one server that was arguably strong enough to advance in rank got kicked back down. Ehmry Bay got shafted by the rng but hopefully they will get their shot next week.

Everyone of the lowest ranked servers in each of the current tiers is gaining points. They may not be winning the matchup, and in most cases are losing the matchup. But they are doing better than Glicko expected and thus are gaining points. Some by large margins.

FC here, and even though we are losing we currently have a 51 point gain in the ratings. The new matchups are doing what they were supposed to do.

Tobias Steele.2071:

Depends on what you define as winning. Having kitten loads of fun while gaining massive amounts of rating (three whole ranks so far)from your opponents as well as dominating during the servers prime time, to me that’s a win.

Only 150 glicko points behind FA to get that 4th rank at the moment. We can totally do this :p

Mad Rasputin.7809:

Everyone of the lowest ranked servers in each of the current tiers is gaining points. They may not be winning the matchup, and in most cases are losing the matchup. But they are doing better than Glicko expected and thus are gaining points. Some by large margins.

FC here, and even though we are losing we currently have a 51 point gain in the ratings. The new matchups are doing what they were supposed to do.

But that is not winning. Winning is very simple. Either you are ahead of the other servers or you are not.

Glicko is about measuring skill in a game and matchmaking. Increasing Glicko means you are more skilled than what was predicted, not that you are winning games.

Your post only shows Glicko perhas was not the best way to measure WvW.

The main problem on my server is getting people out, and saying “We are loosing badly but out Glicko is inceaseing!” will not do it.

Gaining rating <> winning.

Winning is controlling territory and winning fights.

Everything else is just meta or excusing losing.

Who cares if you win or lose? All these sticklers about winning confuse me. Out of three servers in every tier, only one can win. Out of 24 servers every given week, that means only 8 are winners. Typically with the way the tiers have been arranged, only very rarely would we see close enough matches for first and second place to swap and determine a new winner, and in almost all scenarios the third place team was consistent and had no chance to be a “winner” no matter the scenario, and was reduced to playing for second most of the time. For months it was just the same 6-8 “winners” winning over and over with typically favorable-overwhelming odds, I fail to see how that begs any particular merit.

So really, the majority of servers won’t get to experience week by week winning anyways, and who really cares that much about that? If the only boast to that primarily is coverage and numbers, then it really isn’t that big a deal. If you value the match-up you get by the impressive battles contained within rather than some overrated PvDoor determined scoring system and holding a fancy green keep week by week, than you will find enjoyment no matter who your opponent is. Furthermore there is always excitement and enjoyment to be found in meeting new acquaintances, friends, rivals, notable guilds and what not.

BlazeQ.1095:

world population, and dedicated WvW population are 2 completely different things.

^^ is spot on.

Ring of Fire, has one of the highest population in Europe, yet not many people seam to play WvW hence our low tier ranking. Now if only a dragon would appear in the WvW map we would own!!!!

Detharos.3157:

Who cares if you win or lose? All these sticklers about winning confuse me. Out of three servers in every tier, only one can win. Out of 24 servers every given week, that means only 8 are winners. Typically with the way the tiers have been arranged, only very rarely would we see close enough matches for first and second place to swap and determine a new winner, and in almost all scenarios the third place team was consistent and had no chance to be a “winner” no matter the scenario, and was reduced to playing for second most of the time. For months it was just the same 6-8 “winners” winning over and over with typically favorable-overwhelming odds, I fail to see how that begs any particular merit.

So really, the majority of servers won’t get to experience week by week winning anyways, and who really cares that much about that? If the only boast to that primarily is coverage and numbers, then it really isn’t that big a deal. If you value the match-up you get by the impressive battles contained within rather than some overrated PvDoor determined scoring system and holding a fancy green keep week by week, than you will find enjoyment no matter who your opponent is. Furthermore there is always excitement and enjoyment to be found in meeting new acquaintances, friends, rivals, notable guilds and what not.

Hey, that is great for your, but if you slap a score on something some people will naturally want a high score. Not me, but some people, and those are the people my server needs to turn out to change or WvW situation, unfortunately.

Loyo.8526:

As a sorrow’s Furnace solo/duo roamer, I hate this matchup. Atleast with the other one I had a chance of being zerged as much as the other servers because it was semi balanced. While HoD does have some good players to fight, I pretty much haven’t seen much compared to T6 weekends. You can’t fix WvW by doing this. It will only bleed more people. Either go back to the old system or find a way to get more players on lower tiers. Free transfers are a good idea.

Is this a joke post? Seriously, any post that wants to initiate free transfers again is immediately written off.

Free transfers always screw things up. Every. Single. Time.

And as for bleeding more people, good. Fairweathers that are only wanting to play when a server is winning should be discentivized, coming from SF you should understand that, but apparently clarity isn’t a forte here for some people.

I’m new to SoS but the impression I get is that everyone was bored of the old match up. It wasn’t particularly exciting to dominate every week.

Of course I would love to win but I don’t really play for PPT or overall score. The fights are what make the game exciting. You get wiped, you wipe them, you build ACs for every open field battle (half kidding about the last one). I have had a lot of fun this week fighting TC & FA. I love the ferocity of SoS regardless of the score. There are frequent short queues for EB and SoS.

I was a long time resident of Eredon Terrace. My attitude toward PPT and overscore may be a bit different from people on servers that aren’t so used to losing. For me, it’s pretty kitten exciting to be fighting alongside so many people (with approximately equal numbers on both sides!)

It’s Tuesday and…

9 is beating 8 and 11. 11 is beating 8 by 4k, losing to 9 by under 6k.

Even tho SBI is getting destroyed, they are still GAINING 35+ Glicko.

Only 3 Green servers gaining Glicko (Borlis Pass is at +.5).

I think Mil has the new rankings wrong with ET being #23 with a lower rating than FC.

EDIT: kind of excited for Reset.. wanna see who we play next

Drek Thalon.5490:

LunarFault.6780:

The system does allow for a faster escalation or lowering of rating to place a server in it’s proper rating. I don’t know how it is on other servers but DB was climbing extremely fast and dominating tier 2 until a few weeks ago. What changed?

Don’t worry bro DB is doing just fine.

How could you enjoy that. You make a joke that Denys you the truth of the matter of the broken zeroing system giving no real regained players and skilled players any real chance to play you, because I bet your noob in pvp and are useless so like hiding behind mindless bashing zeros so you can call yourself pro in a bigg brackets needed owning leet server like dragon brand when I fact you’re not , your just average and you Zerg a lot. Btw I’m not what server you first would think I am. LOOL

As someone from CD I am proud of our performance so far this week. All old tier 4 server rating increases come from two factors 1. the servers in old t4 were a bit underrated (and receiving recent guild transfers) 2. we are sponging some glicko points from the higher rated servers in our matchup.

I think a lot of people are overreacting to the new system. Its like they forget thakittens offering us a chance for more varied matchups and that matchups only last a week.

kRAVen.4195:

As someone from CD I am proud of our performance so far this week. All old tier 4 server rating increases come from two factors 1. the servers in old t4 were a bit underrated (and receiving recent guild transfers) 2. we are sponging some glicko points from the higher rated servers in our matchup.

I think a lot of people are overreacting to the new system. Its like they forget thakittens offering us a chance for more varied matchups and that matchups only last a week. I going from winning or being competitive every week to being blown out would be a shock but that’s where you will fine the people/guilds with the grit to define your server.

I agree. SoS while still likely to come in last (unless FA phones it in the next couple days) are still doing far better than glicko expected because the old matchups were so stagnent. Movement up or down was all but impossible short of repeated blowout performances or months of constant but modest victories/losses. heck a few of the tiers had matchups where 1 server was stomping the other two for many weeks but still couldnt move up. While what happend in a few tiers was regrettable those results wont hit the same servers/tiers like that every week. I’d rather 1 or 2 weeks of a bad matchup due to RNG followed by some good matchups over months of a badmatchup under the old system(or a stagnent matchup)

and props to CD, you guys are effectively fighting a T3 match (even if its in the T4 slot due to RNG)and at the moment its still anybodys guess as to who’s going to win in the end (7k down from first place with 3 days to go is still within the realm of possibility)

Looks like CD is going to pull off the win this week. I hope all servers get to experience a matchup as close as ours has been.

I’m actually surprised about the CD win… honestly thought they were going to lose based on their past performance…

I guess their early morning population is carrying the match for them.

Xsorus.2507:

I’m actually surprised about the CD win… honestly thought they were going to lose based on their past performance…

I guess their early morning population is carrying the match for them.

Odd that we are being carried by our early morning crew when just this evening during NA prime time we took over everything in Yaks borderland, and held SMC for almost the entire day. I would have sworn that it was our server working together so well that was causing us to win. But what do I know, I just happened to be a guy that was there to see it all. I’m sure your right about this.

winning = gaining rating
losing = losing rating.

A lot of lower rank servers are winning right now.

Except vabbi

Undean.9704:

Odd that we are being carried by our early morning crew when just this evening during NA prime time we took over everything in Yaks borderland, and held SMC for almost the entire day. I would have sworn that it was our server working together so well that was causing us to win. But what do I know, I just happened to be a guy that was there to see it all. I’m sure your right about this.

It’s our server working well. We lost 2 strong SEA wvw guilds to TC a few weeks back and I might say that our sea/Oceanic pop is lower than NA now. But we now have pretty even distribution to defend our holdings as long as the enemies outnumbers us not by too much. We prob got ahead with good defending and strike when opportunities presents itself. Later in the week, our slow climb from 3rd to 2rd probably caught the interest of the rest of the server and they came to help to push us to the first place.

Depends all what you consider winning.
I think the following lower servers are winning as they perform much better than expected:
Arborstone (25 vs 13 & 15): +69
Gunnars Hold (20 vs 8 & 10): +61
Abaddons (11 vs 9 & 7): +21
Drakkar (16 vs 12 & 14): +10
Sea of Sorrows (10 vs 4 & 6): +55
Stormbuff Isle (13 vs 5 & 7): +45
Northern Shiverpeaks (21 vs 16 & 19): +36
Fergusson Crossing (23 vs 18 & 20): +64
Eredon Terrace (24 vs 22 & 17): +24

Dayra.7405:

Depends all what you consider winning.
I think the following lower servers are winning as they perform much better than expected:
Arborstone (25 vs 13 & 15): +69
Gunnars Hold (20 vs 8 & 10): +61
Abaddons (11 vs 9 & 7): +21
Drakkar (16 vs 12 & 14): +10
Sea of Sorrows (10 vs 4 & 6): +55
Stormbuff Isle (13 vs 5 & 7): +45
Northern Shiverpeaks (21 vs 16 & 19): +36
Fergusson Crossing (23 vs 18 & 20): +64
Eredon Terrace (24 vs 22 & 17): +24

Maybe they perform better than expected but that doesnt really mean anything if they still lose. Losing is losing winning is winning. Right? not trying to troll here. But even if Im expected to lose I still lose but don’t lose as bad im still a loser? I’m not sure what the changes in the scoring is trying to achieve but it looks like the expected outcome is still the outcome weather or not its better or not better.

CD has never been a bad server. As long as I can remeber CD was a T3 server at one point CD was in T2.. Between T2 and T4 they havent changed much besides losing a guild here and gaining a guild there. Why it is that as of lately they did worst or better I dont know.

If you improve your rank in the ranking as the result of a match did you lost that match?

If you fail to keep your rank in the ranking as the result of a match did you won that match?

What is wining a match?

Some intermediate sum needed to compute your new ranking and that will never be looked on again? Or the permanent improvement or reduction of your position in the ranking?

I think the point is to try and match servers up better based on the ranking. We will have to see how that all works out. THis week is a wash though.

Warlord.9074:

I think the point is to try and match servers up better based on the ranking.

No that is not possible with any method. Which server you ever put together with FoW and Vabbi kills both of them.

The current method has one main goal: Your ranking should reflect your performance, ranking differences should indicate performance differences.

And to achieve that goal you have to prove the correctness of your rank in matches. You succeed to do so (a win in my view) or you fail to do so (a lose in my view).