Guild Wars 2

Been gone for the past 7-8 months. Disappointed to come back and see this group stacking, boon stacking nonsense, and huge blobs blobbing around the map.

20v20, or similar, fights are incredible. But too few and far between when most groups I see are 75 players or more.

if only they can implement a debuff that make you take more damage if there are more than 5 people within your melee range……

You see this because the game mechanics reward larger numbers. If it didn’t, you wouldn’t. The rally mechanics alone give a large advantage to the side with greater numbers.

Rally sometimes works in the advantage of the non-blobbers actually. Blobbers run glass cannon more often than not, so it’s easy to take them down. So if you focus on a guy while you’re downed and your team helps, you can get up. That’s really important for small groups.

There is lag but sadly… the smaller groups are also affected with lag because of them

What about this: make blobbers lagg and small groups not. Problem solved. Lets start killing them

There’s really not much you can do.

The WvW maps in GW2 are so small, it takes less than 3 minutes to traverse them.

Putting 500 people in such a confined space will naturally lead them to congregate as there is typically only one place of conflict per map, and that point is usually reachable in less than 60 seconds.

You see normally the advantages of having 3-way WvW is that there’s an automatic balance mechanism. Holding lots of territory is more difficult as it gives you more points of contention and more points to attack. If you want to hold everything your resources will be spread thinly.

But this is not the case in GW2 because of how tiny the maps are. Holding your entire Borderlands isn’t more difficult than holding only the North half.

No. They did the opposite. Because of the achievements there are more and bigger zergs now so everyone can get the credit for captured towers, …

azizul.8469:

if only they can implement a debuff that make you take more damage if there are more than 5 people within your melee range……

Or you just siege them with the siege that have higher AoE cap of 50. But nobody is building siege in a zerg vs. zerg fight outside away from towers(at least not on my server).

Small debuff would not work if you were only few vs. big zerg – so you still would need a zerg to fight the other zerg.

Sirendor.1394:

Rally sometimes works in the advantage of the non-blobbers actually. Blobbers run glass cannon more often than not, so it’s easy to take them down. So if you focus on a guy while you’re downed and your team helps, you can get up. That’s really important for small groups.

That’s pretty rare. I mean it’s not just rally it’s also that the larger side has more people that can res… cleanse… heal… buff… cc… make it harder to get to that squishy backline etc. on top of the rallies. There are a lot of bad PvE achievement hunters with full zerk in WvW atm, but that won’t last.

The new map, with bloodlust was supposed to encourage people to play in smaller groups…and keep those points, but…

Large zergs are the way you win in wvw, and winning is what people want, not badges for kills in small groups.

Right now I believe the lag would be there if we are running a 70 man zerg or 20 5 man groups, the servers can’t keep up.

Aberrant.6749:

Sirendor.1394:

Rally sometimes works in the advantage of the non-blobbers actually. Blobbers run glass cannon more often than not, so it’s easy to take them down. So if you focus on a guy while you’re downed and your team helps, you can get up. That’s really important for small groups.

That’s pretty rare. I mean it’s not just rally it’s also that the larger side has more people that can res… cleanse… heal… buff… cc… make it harder to get to that squishy backline etc. on top of the rallies. There are a lot of bad PvE achievement hunters with full zerk in WvW atm, but that won’t last.

True, but without rally you would just die, and then the battle would be over within seconds instead of minutes, as it goes now most of the time. I can’t remember the countless times I threw myself at one of my mates cc’ing people who tried to stomp and reviving and tanking the same time. I always stomp most of the time when I get someone downed too, unless I killed everyone else already.

The 2 main reasons blobs happen in this game are these:

1. The game mechanics are the LEAST skillfull in any game ever made.
- AoE (wah wah wah about the server size and the world would end if they increased the cap) this cap is there PURELY to crutch the weak. If groups of 5-10 ran over clumped up groups of 30 those 30 would then uninstall after a week of the same thing and quit as customers to Anet. The cap allows 15 guys to hit all 5 in a 5man, and the 5man to hit 5 of the 15. THERE IS NO REASON that should EVER exist in a game. Blatant crutch for not as truthfully skilled players. And gw2 doesnt really take skill…its super smooth and very easy.
- The downed state (“but it helps small groups sometimes too”) we have played since launch….it doesnt help EVER more than it punishes. The downed state again is probably larger overall as a crutch than the aoe cap. This allows for people who have no idea how to player vs player combat to “have a chance” to rejoin the fight even though a coordinated team just smoked them. Find a coyote, find a mosquito…and youre right back in it baby! With no downed state, again, players quit because it presents MUCH more challenge per fight. We dont want that here, we want log in, have fun, everyones equal, kinda like chucky cheeses….ZERO comptition.

2. The second main reason blobs happen is because Anet wanted to capture the non-competitive “everyone is equal / never really played an mmo before” market, and succeeded. In ANY other open world pvp there has been 1000x more competition per team/ per server/ per realm / PER PLAYER. People fear dying and ridicule so much in this game that running in 40 pressing 3 keys a fight, (or clicking ), makes more sense than ever challenging your own ability with a couple friends because the 40 prevent you from really dying. That is unless you come across a 50-60 man, then you die and say, oh man, good fights! They had more!

I think having a speed debuff for large groups would work well. So if a group of players is greater than a threshold then they move at in combat speed. Their fighting strength of the zerg is not reduced but allows more time for smaller groups to out maneuver them, and capture several towers maybe keeps.

Debuff for larger groups doesnt make sense. Like Anet said, it’s wvw so it will never be balanced.

The thing that needs to be changed is the size of the maps. Ojectives, and especially in eb, are so close to eachother you can easily stack up a whole server and defend everything on your own side. You only have to split up once you get the whole map and have to defend 3 keeps.
Imo, you shouldn’t be able to defend a tier 2/3 tower if you have to run from a keep on the other side of the map to it. Now this would already split zergs into 2 halves and get more commanders do their job. Less lag, more fights and more fun.

The speed debuff would increase the size of the map for large zergs, but not small groups. Doing exactly what you are requesting without having to do major rework on the WvW map designs.

I have to say I agree with some of the points here, mainly the size of the maps. Waypoints are also a big issue because you can hold on to a keep forever with enough coordination. imo you should only have your spawn waypoint and if you died defending the keep well then, try harder not to die. Having the same map but basically stretching them so that there is a good distance between objectives is the best way to work this and I hope anet are thinking about that because it will also make field fights much more interesting.

rultax.2604:

The speed debuff would increase the size of the map for large zergs, but not small groups. Doing exactly what you are requesting without having to do major rework on the WvW map designs.

Not really. You debuff the enemy zerg not only out of combat but extremely in combat. You basicly say: hey, you’re a big zerg so we make you move really slow like you’re almost immobilized constantly.
That’s balancing the imbalance of what shoudn’t be balanced.

You can’t simpily make a system that says: ‘’when the player is out of combat and runs with xxx people in the radius of xxx yards he moves xx% slower’’ Because people can easily spread and run ’’individual’’ to the objective, gather there and still zerg with 100 guys. Making such system would probably require more time than expanding the wvw maps, because probably it’s not that hard for them to transform a huge lake into a massive ruins. So shouldn’t it be hard to expanding it either.

Npac.3476:

The 2 main reasons blobs happen in this game are these:

1. The game mechanics are the LEAST skillfull in any game ever made.
- AoE (wah wah wah about the server size and the world would end if they increased the cap) this cap is there PURELY to crutch the weak. If groups of 5-10 ran over clumped up groups of 30 those 30 would then uninstall after a week of the same thing and quit as customers to Anet. The cap allows 15 guys to hit all 5 in a 5man, and the 5man to hit 5 of the 15. THERE IS NO REASON that should EVER exist in a game. Blatant crutch for not as truthfully skilled players. And gw2 doesnt really take skill…its super smooth and very easy.
- The downed state (“but it helps small groups sometimes too”) we have played since launch….it doesnt help EVER more than it punishes. The downed state again is probably larger overall as a crutch than the aoe cap. This allows for people who have no idea how to player vs player combat to “have a chance” to rejoin the fight even though a coordinated team just smoked them. Find a coyote, find a mosquito…and youre right back in it baby! With no downed state, again, players quit because it presents MUCH more challenge per fight. We dont want that here, we want log in, have fun, everyones equal, kinda like chucky cheeses….ZERO comptition.

2. The second main reason blobs happen is because Anet wanted to capture the non-competitive “everyone is equal / never really played an mmo before” market, and succeeded. In ANY other open world pvp there has been 1000x more competition per team/ per server/ per realm / PER PLAYER. People fear dying and ridicule so much in this game that running in 40 pressing 3 keys a fight, (or clicking ), makes more sense than ever challenging your own ability with a couple friends because the 40 prevent you from really dying. That is unless you come across a 50-60 man, then you die and say, oh man, good fights! They had more!

What you first bring up is true to a point, AoE cap does cripple the small groups, but the reason its capped is because of the amount of skill lag that was caused before the cap was implemented. Once they rework skills as they say they are, then maybe they will look into removing the aoe cap. Also, even without the cap there its not going to happen often that a 5-10 man group wipes a 30 man, simply because of the numbers advantage, and not only in bodies, but in composition, with a 30 man you can have a balance of good damage, good heals, good cc, good condi removal, all that. With a 10 man your options are much more limited.

As long as you have big massive buildings with doors and walls plus lots of Arrow Carts, treb’s, cata’s, and ballista’s that need to be taken, you will have huge blobs.

BlackAngel.1349:

I have to say I agree with some of the points here, mainly the size of the maps. Waypoints are also a big issue because you can hold on to a keep forever with enough coordination. imo you should only have your spawn waypoint and if you died defending the keep well then, try harder not to die. Having the same map but basically stretching them so that there is a good distance between objectives is the best way to work this and I hope anet are thinking about that because it will also make field fights much more interesting.

Agreed, WP’s detract from the gameplay a ton. It sucks when you kill someone and then they respawn 20 feet away from you. >.< Even the ability to revive allies from full death should be removed, imo. My guild group has often killed 10 people only to see them quickly revived by a couple of pugs while we attempt to fight the remaining 30. Thanks to WP’s and reviving (from full-death) it’s often IMPOSSIBLE to win an outnumbered fight in a keep, even against players with far less coordination. Death is not remotely punishing in this game, especially if you just part of a blob that will instantly revive you from death.

Well, besides the small group issues with a full AoE, see Bright Wizards in Warhammer, could you imagine a blob of nothing but AoE’rs with uncapped AoE? Wholesale instant death!

We would all be screaming for the nerfing. AoE, or PBAoE’s uncapped have been the downfall of many an MMO.

I have had fun participating in blob v blob fights. It is interesting listening to the good commanders shout out orders during the fights… " AoE’s here… pull back.. hold… push push push all the way through, turn around deal with the back row… work the tail…" It has its moments for sure, particularly when you’re victorious.

BlackDevil.9268:

Not really. You debuff the enemy zerg not only out of combat but extremely in combat. You basicly say: hey, you’re a big zerg so we make you move really slow like you’re almost immobilized constantly.
That’s balancing the imbalance of what shoudn’t be balanced.

You can’t simpily make a system that says: ‘’when the player is out of combat and runs with xxx people in the radius of xxx yards he moves xx% slower’’ Because people can easily spread and run ’’individual’’ to the objective, gather there and still zerg with 100 guys. Making such system would probably require more time than expanding the wvw maps, because probably it’s not that hard for them to transform a huge lake into a massive ruins. So shouldn’t it be hard to expanding it either.

The debuff wouldn’t make the zerg move slower than in combat speed. So no disadvantage while in combat. And no need to calculate for each individual. You divide the map into a grid of overlapping squares and if the number of players on the same team in a square exceeds a certain amount all players on that team in the square are put ‘in combat’ for a period of time.

You could then adjust the size of the squares, the amount of overlap and threshold of players to balance the debuff.

azizul.8469:

if only they can implement a debuff that make you take more damage if there are more than 5 people within your melee range……

Yes, I bet you’d like it if I brought my zerg to your 5-man to grief you and make you take more damage

alanis.6094:

Been gone for the past 7-8 months. Disappointed to come back and see this group stacking, boon stacking nonsense, and huge blobs blobbing around the map.

20v20, or similar, fights are incredible. But too few and far between when most groups I see are 75 players or more.

There was a feature called bloodlust that made you (at least on BLs) split up because there was just so much to be done on the map that commanders had to make strategic choices when playing the map.
Unfortunately, they nerfed this feature to 1 stomp = 1 point no matter how many orbs you have. Consequently, as long as you have 1 and dont plan on denying it to a specific server, no real incentive for capping them.

ANET thinks players do it for the stats which have also been nerfed to 30 – 50 – 60.
And this was about all they did to “break up the zerg”

LostBalloon.6423:

alanis.6094:

Been gone for the past 7-8 months. Disappointed to come back and see this group stacking, boon stacking nonsense, and huge blobs blobbing around the map.

20v20, or similar, fights are incredible. But too few and far between when most groups I see are 75 players or more.

There was a feature called bloodlust that made you (at least on BLs) split up because there was just so much to be done on the map that commanders had to make strategic choices when playing the map.
Unfortunately, they nerfed this feature to 1 stomp = 1 point no matter how many orbs you have. Consequently, as long as you have 1 and dont plan on denying it to a specific server, no real incentive for capping them.

ANET thinks players do it for the stats which have also been nerfed to 30 – 50 – 60.
And this was about all they did to “break up the zerg”

Then what really happened is one person would go to cap and 20 enemies would show up and stomp them.

We all know the problem. There aren’t enough players to go around, so you have a few servers with massive blobs of enemies. They get to destroy smaller servers because it’s fun for them. Anet pleases the bigger groups who in turn spend more money.

Sigh. Another post about this. Zergs are not created by ANET. No one forces people to zerg. So, do people zerg? The answer is because they choose to do so.

From a roamer’s standpoint, I like having a huge zerg on the map. It means I that I run into fewer 10 or 20 man groups.

At the end of the day though, people can play how they want. I don’t know which server everyone here is on, but on TC we have plenty of roamers, zerg lovers, and tagless guild runs. It’s a good mix.

What makes AOE skills extremely useless is that there’s no icd on retal dmg. Cast a MS on a zerg and watch your health drops from 20k to 0 in 2secs

rultax.2604:

BlackDevil.9268:

Not really. You debuff the enemy zerg not only out of combat but extremely in combat. You basicly say: hey, you’re a big zerg so we make you move really slow like you’re almost immobilized constantly.
That’s balancing the imbalance of what shoudn’t be balanced.

You can’t simpily make a system that says: ‘’when the player is out of combat and runs with xxx people in the radius of xxx yards he moves xx% slower’’ Because people can easily spread and run ’’individual’’ to the objective, gather there and still zerg with 100 guys. Making such system would probably require more time than expanding the wvw maps, because probably it’s not that hard for them to transform a huge lake into a massive ruins. So shouldn’t it be hard to expanding it either.

The debuff wouldn’t make the zerg move slower than in combat speed. So no disadvantage while in combat. And no need to calculate for each individual. You divide the map into a grid of overlapping squares and if the number of players on the same team in a square exceeds a certain amount all players on that team in the square are put ‘in combat’ for a period of time.

You could then adjust the size of the squares, the amount of overlap and threshold of players to balance the debuff.

Yes exactly, so you gotta make a system that only triggers when the enemy is out of combat. Sounds bit difficult imo.
Also you would need to discuss how big those squares should be. Like I said before, if you make them too small people can easily spread and run individual to the object to gather there, but if you make them too big it can affect roamers and I know how annoying it already is to get annoyed by zergs with skill lag and such.

Also you would need to discuss at how many people it would trigger. Guilds will probably get annoying pretty fast by this since some guilds can work really effective with 60 and others with 20.

Imo it just seems to manipulate this system a bit too easy

style.6173:

Sigh. Another post about this. Zergs are not created by ANET. No one forces people to zerg. So, do people zerg? The answer is because they choose to do so.

From a roamer’s standpoint, I like having a huge zerg on the map. It means I that I run into fewer 10 or 20 man groups.

At the end of the day though, people can play how they want. I don’t know which server everyone here is on, but on TC we have plenty of roamers, zerg lovers, and tagless guild runs. It’s a good mix.

Yes you are true about that, zergs aren’t created by anet. It’s the players balling up to 80+ man blobs.

But why? Because Arenanet encourages these blobs.
Well, what do most people want to do in the game? Right, that what get’s encouraged.

Running in smaller groups is for most people not fun because it’s too hard or/and it gets discouraged by those who run in bigger groups.

While it should be the opposite: Big groups should be discouraged, while smaller groups shouldn’t be encouraged nor discouraged.

the only way to reduce zergs without punishing people is to lower the map cap and make more maps or overflows. and even then people will herd together because it’s in our nature to.

I wonder if anet might work in some counter play tactics to “stack and pack” which Is the basic tactic used by zergs.

AoE is no counter if it is limited to 5 players. Necromancer’s spectral wall, or Mesmers Focus 4 at least sorta hamper movement, but these skills are limited, especially if stability is a stacked buff.

There is literally no reward or game mechanism incentive to roam as a small group and every incentive to run as big of a blob as possible:

1) AoE cap on only 5 targets, which was extended even FURTHER now that blocked and missed attacks count toward that 5 target max;

2) The massive increase in karma/money/XP rewards for PvD activities. Killing people gives almost no reward compared to beating on a door and sitting in a circle. The maximum reward/minute is achieved when the least amount of competition is around;

3) Downed state mechanics and power-rezzing/hard rezzing always gives advantage to the side with greater numbers who can afford to commit people in the fight to rez downed players. Also forces small man groups to sacrifice utilities/health just to finish off a player before he is rezzed, and sometimes even that is impossible to do.

The only reason why you should roam is if you actually enjoy utilizing your player skill to try and come out on top of incredible odds against your favor.

Boy would this game be so much more fun if the average group size was between 5-10 rather than 60+.

What are your guys feelings on removing caps of stun, fear, knockback, etc abilities rather than all aoe? While I think removing all aoe caps would be best, this might be a nice middle ground depending on the strain this puts on the server.

So basically leave the cap on damage spells and remove damage and player cap from all Crowd Control abilities.

I still think they should switch the effects of the ruins/outnumbered buffs. I felt this way back when there were orbs. It’s the stronger teams that will have the people to spare to take the ruins, all this will result in is the bigger zergs getting even tougher to kill.

Oh, stability should negate immobilize. Being less CC’d would help the smaller group more than the bigger group because it’s usually the smaller numbers being more smart with their abilities, anyway.

~ Kovu

I came up with an exponential function that would even the odds, but there isn’t any answer for such a large man zerg. If they are all grouped up like that, go steal their territories. When they only capture a tower while you snag two camps, two towers and a keep, well, I guess they’ll have to learn.

You guys realize the reason 99.9% of the players in this game blob is because they lack any past pvp experience and are afraid to die without the help of the blob….

Yea yea yea rewards this and that, that has some merit here, but the MAJORITY of the blobbers do it because its, easy, mindless, and compensates for ALL and ANY lack of actual player vs player talent.

The guys who run around and make videos/win fights that are EXTRAORDINARILY oddly favored against are players that have taken the time to A. develop a build with synergy for the scenario, B. learned how to kite/ not key turn/ macro keys/ NOT CLICK, and C. have most likely pvped on their comps in other mmos….

Anet captured the “I’m new to gaming and I want easy over anything else” market….that is fact here….

azizul.8469:

if only they can implement a debuff that make you take more damage if there are more than 5 people within your melee range……

well we already have that. it is called major skill lag which doesn’t allow you to heal or attack.

Like all Anet pvp the maps are too small.

People even zerg in spvp (8v8 and 10v10) because it is most profitable. Compare the conquest mode of the spvp and then go play LOL (dominion). Its the same thing, but because of the spread of the map and number of people on it, it is difficult to zerg. And 100x more fun.

In Daoc roaming teams were legendary. The maps were very large and unless you were taking a fort zerging was very difficult.

They could limit the number of people on the map. Open more maps.

Or they could redesign the maps so they are bigger. Push all the major objectives to the corners. Remove waypoint building in side keeps.

Another idea would be to force teams to hold 2 points simultaneously… Say I wanted to take a major keep like Hills. My team might need to hold 2 other towers at the same time or the gates wouldn’t weaken. Defensive players may need to hold a tower or they can not get inside.

I reject all calls to strengthen AOE. If it was strengthened it would come down to 2 sides standing across from each other spamming AOE. At least the current meta requires the coordination of mele and ranged to run an effective hammer train.

Relentliss.2170:

Like all Anet pvp the maps are too small.

People even zerg in spvp (8v8 and 10v10) because it is most profitable. Compare the conquest mode of the spvp and then go play LOL (dominion). Its the same thing, but because of the spread of the map and number of people on it, it is difficult to zerg. And 100x more fun.

In Daoc roaming teams were legendary. The maps were very large and unless you were taking a fort zerging was very difficult.

They could limit the number of people on the map. Open more maps.

Or they could redesign the maps so they are bigger. Push all the major objectives to the corners. Remove waypoint building in side keeps.

Another idea would be to force teams to hold 2 points simultaneously… Say I wanted to take a major keep like Hills. My team might need to hold 2 other towers at the same time or the gates wouldn’t weaken. Defensive players may need to hold a tower or they can not get inside.

I reject all calls to strengthen AOE. If it was strengthened it would come down to 2 sides standing across from each other spamming AOE. At least the current meta requires the coordination of mele and ranged to run an effective hammer train.

Agreed dude. BRING US BACK TO SINGLE TARGET DPS!!!!!

Take 75% of the objectives off every map. Make this about pvp and have conquest involved with making objectives worth it for strategy….not just for wxp farming.

MAKE PLAYER KILLS THE MAIN WAY TO RANK UP.

I disagree with any suggestion that applys a debuff just because of X# of people occupy Y space.

Wvw is a lost cause as long as the downed state still exists and a blob can cover the same distance in the same time as a single player/small group. Top it off with the massive skill lag that forces players to reduce their brain usage to that of a single brain for the entire blob and you have a failing formula.

Just give me an open world map where I can fight people and I will be wasting one less queue slot.

Vol.5241:

azizul.8469:

if only they can implement a debuff that make you take more damage if there are more than 5 people within your melee range……

Yes, I bet you’d like it if I brought my zerg to your 5-man to grief you and make you take more damage

sure , bring it on . my 5 won’t be affected, your MORE than 5 will….. when i said “people” i was assuming everyone would imagine people from one’s side

Monoman.2068:

Wvw is a lost cause as long as the downed state still exists and a blob can cover the same distance in the same time as a single player/small group. Top it off with the massive skill lag that forces players to reduce their brain usage to that of a single brain for the entire blob and you have a failing formula.

Just give me an open world map where I can fight people and I will be wasting one less queue slot.

^
This and very much this.

Zylonite.5913:

azizul.8469:

if only they can implement a debuff that make you take more damage if there are more than 5 people within your melee range……

well we already have that. it is called major skill lag which doesn’t allow you to heal or attack.

it’s not enough.. we need more…

perhaps more lag will do. slideshow is better.

Monoman.2068:

Wvw is a lost cause as long as the downed state still exists and a blob can cover the same distance in the same time as a single player/small group. Top it off with the massive skill lag that forces players to reduce their brain usage to that of a single brain for the entire blob and you have a failing formula.

Just give me an open world map where I can fight people and I will be wasting one less queue slot.

agreed dude. Good to know there are still some people like our guild out there.

alanis.6094:

Been gone for the past 7-8 months. Disappointed to come back and see this group stacking, boon stacking nonsense, and huge blobs blobbing around the map.

Yes something was done (increasing AC power), but it had the opposite effect as could have been predicted.

LostBalloon.6423:

There was a feature called bloodlust that made you (at least on BLs) split up because there was just so much to be done on the map that commanders had to make strategic choices when playing the map.
Unfortunately, they nerfed this feature to 1 stomp = 1 point no matter how many orbs you have. Consequently, as long as you have 1 and dont plan on denying it to a specific server, no real incentive for capping them.

ANET thinks players do it for the stats which have also been nerfed to 30 – 50 – 60.
And this was about all they did to “break up the zerg”

In reality zergs never need to split because the roamers that already existed could handle the bloodlust buff easily.

Npac.3476:

The 2 main reasons blobs happen in this game are these:

1. The game mechanics are the LEAST skillfull in any game ever made.
- AoE (wah wah wah about the server size and the world would end if they increased the cap) this cap is there PURELY to crutch the weak. If groups of 5-10 ran over clumped up groups of 30 those 30 would then uninstall after a week of the same thing and quit as customers to Anet. The cap allows 15 guys to hit all 5 in a 5man, and the 5man to hit 5 of the 15. THERE IS NO REASON that should EVER exist in a game. Blatant crutch for not as truthfully skilled players. And gw2 doesnt really take skill…its super smooth and very easy.
- The downed state (“but it helps small groups sometimes too”) we have played since launch….it doesnt help EVER more than it punishes. The downed state again is probably larger overall as a crutch than the aoe cap. This allows for people who have no idea how to player vs player combat to “have a chance” to rejoin the fight even though a coordinated team just smoked them. Find a coyote, find a mosquito…and youre right back in it baby! With no downed state, again, players quit because it presents MUCH more challenge per fight. We dont want that here, we want log in, have fun, everyones equal, kinda like chucky cheeses….ZERO comptition.

2. The second main reason blobs happen is because Anet wanted to capture the non-competitive “everyone is equal / never really played an mmo before” market, and succeeded. In ANY other open world pvp there has been 1000x more competition per team/ per server/ per realm / PER PLAYER. People fear dying and ridicule so much in this game that running in 40 pressing 3 keys a fight, (or clicking ), makes more sense than ever challenging your own ability with a couple friends because the 40 prevent you from really dying. That is unless you come across a 50-60 man, then you die and say, oh man, good fights! They had more!

Well said. The whole carebear everyone is equal crap is really annoying.

deathTouch.9706:

There is literally no reward or game mechanism incentive to roam as a small group and every incentive to run as big of a blob as possible:

1) AoE cap on only 5 targets, which was extended even FURTHER now that blocked and missed attacks count toward that 5 target max;

2) The massive increase in karma/money/XP rewards for PvD activities. Killing people gives almost no reward compared to beating on a door and sitting in a circle. The maximum reward/minute is achieved when the least amount of competition is around;

3) Downed state mechanics and power-rezzing/hard rezzing always gives advantage to the side with greater numbers who can afford to commit people in the fight to rez downed players. Also forces small man groups to sacrifice utilities/health just to finish off a player before he is rezzed, and sometimes even that is impossible to do.

The only reason why you should roam is if you actually enjoy utilizing your player skill to try and come out on top of incredible odds against your favor.

Boy would this game be so much more fun if the average group size was between 5-10 rather than 60+.

Agree with you 100%. The way the wvw in this game is now they might as well just have 2 classes. Melee and ranged because all you do is run with the zerg and spam 1 at various ranges. There is zero reason to play a specific class or roam because it offers less reward and more frustration because you will always inevitably meet the zerg and get rolled over. I dare say at this point even spvp is a more well rounded form of pvp than wvw and that’s saying something being how terrible spvp is in this game.

Npac.3476:

You guys realize the reason 99.9% of the players in this game blob is because they lack any past pvp experience and are afraid to die without the help of the blob….

Yea yea yea rewards this and that, that has some merit here, but the MAJORITY of the blobbers do it because its, easy, mindless, and compensates for ALL and ANY lack of actual player vs player talent.

The guys who run around and make videos/win fights that are EXTRAORDINARILY oddly favored against are players that have taken the time to A. develop a build with synergy for the scenario, B. learned how to kite/ not key turn/ macro keys/ NOT CLICK, and C. have most likely pvped on their comps in other mmos….

Anet captured the “I’m new to gaming and I want easy over anything else” market….that is fact here….

True, but arenanet has to accept that the backbone of WvW are the competitive guilds. They may blob all they like, coordinated WvW guilds (usually 5-20 people) will always have the tactical edge, though will be rewarded less for their efforts.
If those hardcore competitive players decide to drop away because WvW isn’t competitive… Anet has a problem. Blobbers barely have a clue what they’re doing.

Monoman.2068:

Just give me an open world map where I can fight people and I will be wasting one less queue slot.

I agree. Any open world PvP would be better than WvW.