Guild Wars 2

Toxsa.2701:

TyPin.9860:

Toxsa.2701:

Hexalot.8194:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upgrading-world-vs-world-upgrades/

Due to granting the powerful Applied Fortitude and Applied Strength effects, the Defense Against Guards and Guard Killer lines needed to be extremely expensive, but that meant players often felt obligated to spend their first 230 points on these lines before they could begin branching out into other ability lines. Also, those two lines—along with the Siege Might, Siege Bunker, and Mercenary’s Bane lines that simply granted single percentage increases per ability rank—felt very weak. This drove our decision to shorten the Guard Killer and Defense Against Guards lines to five, removing Applied Strength and Applied Fortitude.

Enjoy it while it lasts folks…

Edit.. LOL, didn’t mean to post as a question. :-D

Bleh, another “noob-firendly” patch. All veterans should have grabbed everything useful already.. Losing that 100 power and 250 vit is going to hurt so much as a zerker class They really want those worthless newbies who almost never play wvw to be happy huh. They should be rank 500+ already at this point.

Exactly this kind of elitist entitlement approach is the thing that hurts WvW more than anything ANet can do.

After Account Bound Wxp, there’re really no more excuse for lack of rank points.
Seriously, the only possibility for lack of rank points is that you never play WvW at all…

Ever thought that with HoT maybe new players will join WvW? I agree for someone who regularly plays WvW, it would be easy to have already enough WvW ranks. However, this doesn’t change, that it is still a weird mechanic, that clearly puts the new player in an disadvantage. The WvW veteran has not only access to better stats, he draws also on more experience and possibly skill. I always was against those two bonuses anyway.

But that is not actually the point. The point is your attitude. You think, just because your way of playing leads to certain results, everyone else should be were you are or where you say they should be. Additionally your attitude towards “worthless newbies” is simply disgusting. You appear as a very entitled player, who believes his standards should be standards for all. This is what actually made me oppose you.

BlackBeard.2873:

Honestly, I think this is a good change, and I have both of these maxed out on my characters. While this did allow many people to min/max builds, it also was a mandatory WXP line, and you felt at a significant disadvantage until you get up to that rank 230, especially as a roamer (which means it takes WAY longer to get to that rank too). Also, in the mean-time you couldn’t enjoy any of the fun abilities b/c you were saving your WXP for that big payoff at the end.

Not only will this help with overall WvW balance (hopefully food gets balanced too), but it also makes the WXP system more fun, imo.

I think wvw abilities should give advantages in fights relative to siege and npcs, but not give PvP advantages. Good change, imo.

+1, I agree, and I have had both lines maxed for a long time. As much as I’m really, really going to miss those vitality stacks on my glass staff ele…things like guard stacks are a real barrier to entry to new WvW players. In PvE (with the exception of high level fractals) all you need to do is level a character to 80 and acquire relatively easy-to-obtain exotic gear to be ready to go. But in WvW there was this additional de-facto requirement that you needed to grind out a certain amount of WvW ability points to get guard stacks.

They could have lowered the number of points required for the guard stacks, but what’s the point? Any number of points required is still an extra step above and beyond that which is required in PvE. Now we can tell PvE players “hey guess what, you probably are going to have to buy some exotic PVT gear (which thankfully you might already have because of Tequatl), but other than that, you can step right into WvW and be on basically the same playing field as the rest of us”. That’s huge for recruiting new players. And WvW desperately needs new players.

the main reason for all these complaints isn’t the fact that the vet wvw players wanted to stay superior in comparisson to new wvw’ers. The complaint is that in order to have a good wvw build you need a decent effective healthpool that is higher then a basic spike of for example a ranger/thief. Characters with low base health need this vitality in order to meet this effective healthpool, simply because toughness is nowhere near the effectiveness of vitality in this combination.
Removing 250 vitality out of the game means offensive builds need to lose 250 offensive stats just to meet the decent effective healthpool again. This means that these professions will lose up to 10% dps compared to classes who accumulated the decent effective healthpool by their base HP and armor. (ele’s for example losing around 8% dps compared to the necro that way).

summarizing: this update gates out the possibility for some classes to go offensive, losing build variety that way. Game gets unbalanced because some classes have a natural decent effective healthpool and other classes don’t.

I agree that applied fortitude+strength was a bad idea, but you simply CANNOT add in applied fortitude+strength→ start balancing around the new stats→removing the applied fortitude+strength again.

….“The Applied Fortitude and Applied Strength effects have been removed.”….

As soon as I read this I came right to the forums to ask “WTF is this S..T????” I’ll read the rest of this now but, wow I couldn’t believe they’d water down WvW like that.

While I agree with the fact that it sucks to have applied fortitude and vitality removed as they were very nice and attainable for anyone who really WvW’d this thread is just taking things way too far. Remember that this is just the first thing said about the WvW ability points and we can probably expect achievment changes and other changes to. Not to mention that it also looks like a possible mastery system will be added to add to the rest, which could add more. Maybe even some more trait lines.
The rest of the changes towards trait lines seem good…I do agree though that applied fortitude and vitality should stay, I don’t get why they don’t just make them cheaper though, as they talk about how they don’t want to make trait lines useless, that’s effectively what they do to that one.

As for the tower upgrades that’s getting hate here, come on, this solves SO many issues for people who dedicate their time to upgrading, not to mention it prevents trolls in a few ways, yes they can still drain keeps, but at least if they do it won’t stop upgrades now.

Overall this seems like a step in the right direction, let’s try and give them the benefit of the doubt, becuase no wonder they don’t want to interact with us… There’s tons of hate on this entire thread for every single decision they made! Some of them really aren’t that bad, and I don’t see how any of these changes are “for the PvE player”, although they do seem to give them too much love.

Good I won’t have to faff about getting guard stacks.

I will say though that I really hope they add some additional abilities to spend WvW rank points on. Most of the current ones are focused around siege, there are so many more interesting ideas for spending points that have been floating around for a while now that don’t involve stat increases.

Anybody plan on getting Guard Killer or Defense Against Guards now? I don’t really see the point in getting these now besides just having leftover points to burn.

Archon.6481:

the krytan assassin.9235:

so as ele i’m gonna lose 125 vit from trait loss, (running 4 in water atm) and losing 225 power. losing another 100 power from removal of applied strength and 250 vit from applied fortitude. gonna need to compensate the loss of vitality by adding extra vitality on my armor so gonna lose another 375 offensive stats, so in the end: -325 power-475 offensive stats.

Yes lets make evry1 hit like a wed noodle, WVW is way to hard!. luckily we don’t have to bother anymore with sieging up/supplies anymore either, it’s so hard to apply tactics in wvw you know!

It looks like Anet is trying evrything to get rid of gw2 and start playing black desert when they do the western release…..

Anet has already said that stat points lost from traits will be made up for increased base stats and increased stats on armor.

Sure, but right now you get 300 points in a targeted stat. So you can go full glass and still have (in the case on an ele) 300 more vitality. If they disperse those stats across the gear it will be 150 more major points and 75 for each of the minor. The distribution will totally change. (note: this is why people who crafted ascended armor are most upset about this change.)

Look at it this way. With HOT an ele will lose 550 vitality in WvW or over 5k hp!

I find the stack removal good. They’re pointless buffs anyway that only serve to give people unfair advantage. They’ve also been a source of pressure on players to not die and always chase down guards like rabid dogs instead of focusing on more important things.

Another thing is that the relatively small buff the stacks give is greatly applied when a whole map blob has them, while the losing side gets a perpetual penalty for getting wiped. Bags and bragging is enough reward, there’s no need to punish the losing side.

With them gone, no one is nerfed and no one has gained anything. If you feel that you’ve been nerfed into the ground for losing those 250 vitality and 100 offensive points, you have bigger issues with your playing ability that you should probably work on first. No one ‘needs’ stacks. Instead, be happy you no longer have to chase godkitten guards all over the place before fighting just to feel ‘optimal’.

Pretty much every wvw patch since the crit damage nerf has been about “Lets make it impossible for dudes to stand a chance in an outnumbered fight”. Crit damage, stab changes, and now this. To top it off they go ahead buff siege. Is this what anet wants wvw to be? A bunch of blobs running around and dudes sitting on siege all day? Is every anet dev a yak’s bend pug?

splatticus.1278:

I find the stack removal good. They’re pointless buffs anyway that only serve to give people unfair advantage. They’ve also been a source of pressure on players to not die and always chase down guards like rabid dogs instead of focusing on more important things.

Another thing is that the relatively small buff the stacks give is greatly applied when a whole map blob has them, while the losing side gets a perpetual penalty for getting wiped. Bags and bragging is enough reward, there’s no need to punish the losing side.

With them gone, no one is nerfed and no one has gained anything. If you feel that you’ve been nerfed into the ground for losing those 250 vitality and 100 offensive points, you have bigger issues with your playing ability that you should probably work on first. No one ‘needs’ stacks. Instead, be happy you no longer have to chase godkitten guards all over the place before fighting just to feel ‘optimal’.

The thing is that we actually DO give valid arguments why removing the buffs does not mean that evry1 gets the same…. like already pointed out in earlier posts this will decrease the ele dps compared to the necro dps by around 8-10% which is actually a very big difference, so i see enough reasons to riot actually.

the krytan assassin.9235:

The thing is that we actually DO give valid arguments why removing the buffs does not mean that evry1 gets the same…. like already pointed out in earlier posts this will decrease the ele dps compared to the necro dps by around 8-10% which is actually a very big difference, so i see enough reasons to riot actually.

Well, necromancers lose 250 vit too, leaving them with 18-19k hp if going full glass. Elementalists aren’t exactly in a bad spot balance-wise, so saying that stacks were mandatory for them makes no sense. Eles rely on active defense, necros on passive; they should not have similar hp pools.

splatticus.1278:

the krytan assassin.9235:

The thing is that we actually DO give valid arguments why removing the buffs does not mean that evry1 gets the same…. like already pointed out in earlier posts this will decrease the ele dps compared to the necro dps by around 8-10% which is actually a very big difference, so i see enough reasons to riot actually.

Well, necromancers lose 250 vit too, leaving them with 18-19k hp if going full glass. Elementalists aren’t exactly in a bad spot balance-wise, so saying that stacks were mandatory for them makes no sense. Eles rely on active defense, necros on passive; they should not have similar hp pools.

yes, 18-19k, add DS to it and you’re on 33k. The 2.5k hp isn’t gonna make a difference between getting the required HP to survive or not for the necro and normally not needed at all for a necro to survive. This means it’s almost a pure 8-10% dmge loss of ele compared to necro, without the necro losing anything of their surviveability. Also you’re making the statement that ele relies on active defense, i wonder how you want to pop those skills if you’re getting 1 shotted by thiefs without the extra vitality though….

This is excellent news! Really looking forward to this.

the krytan assassin.9235:

splatticus.1278:

the krytan assassin.9235:

The thing is that we actually DO give valid arguments why removing the buffs does not mean that evry1 gets the same…. like already pointed out in earlier posts this will decrease the ele dps compared to the necro dps by around 8-10% which is actually a very big difference, so i see enough reasons to riot actually.

Well, necromancers lose 250 vit too, leaving them with 18-19k hp if going full glass. Elementalists aren’t exactly in a bad spot balance-wise, so saying that stacks were mandatory for them makes no sense. Eles rely on active defense, necros on passive; they should not have similar hp pools.

yes, 18-19k, add DS to it and you’re on 33k. The 2.5k hp isn’t gonna make a difference between getting the required HP to survive or not for the necro and normally not needed at all for a necro to survive. This means it’s almost a pure 8-10% dmge loss of ele compared to necro, without the necro losing anything of their surviveability. Also you’re making the statement that ele relies on active defense, i wonder how you want to pop those skills if you’re getting 1 shotted by thiefs without the extra vitality though….

My thief can already 1-shot (well it’s a full combo but still happens fast) zerk ele’s even when they have full stacks on my thief. With the loss of stacks, I don’t think protection would even save them, which this and other changes concerns me for my ele in wvw too, and already wasn’t full glass but that health loss will hurt badly. I’d rather bloodlust not give any stat bonuses and nerf the amount of vit a bit if they wanted to change this, but eliminating entirely… Idk, everything about these changes seems to encourage ktraining >.<

edit: Really though I’m mixed on their removal. It’s the other changes I can’t agree with.

the krytan assassin.9235:

yes, 18-19k, add DS to it and you’re on 33k. The 2.5k hp isn’t gonna make a difference between getting the required HP to survive or not for the necro and normally not needed at all for a necro to survive. This means it’s almost a pure 8-10% dmge loss of ele compared to necro, without the necro losing anything of their surviveability. Also you’re making the statement that ele relies on active defense, i wonder how you want to pop those skills if you’re getting 1 shotted by thiefs without the extra vitality though….

All this is telling me that stacks are fundamentally flawed by design since attributes have different meaning for different classes. No one should have to – nor be able to – make a build require guard stacks. Which again is a good point to removing them and letting everyone readjust around this, instead of having an obviously broken system in place.

There’s nothing saying that eles will be underpowered after this, they might aswell simply have been slightly too powerful as it is now. Going full berseker while getting a large percentage hp increase from stacks isnt even remotely balanced, to be honest. Should necro be getting an equal relative percentage increase to damage through applied strength? No, stacks going away will be better in the long run.

MaximillianVonSchatten.6278:

Also, I’m so happy I spent all that coin on boosters and spent hours and hours to get my rank up!

So is Anet. Now that they have milked you (us) for several thousand ranks, they can change things around and start getting some money from people who aren’t willing to grind as long.

Have they even announced any new wvw specialties to spend our wvw rank points on? Why not create an applied fortitude/vitality line separate from the guard stuff?

splatticus.1278:

the krytan assassin.9235:

yes, 18-19k, add DS to it and you’re on 33k. The 2.5k hp isn’t gonna make a difference between getting the required HP to survive or not for the necro and normally not needed at all for a necro to survive. This means it’s almost a pure 8-10% dmge loss of ele compared to necro, without the necro losing anything of their surviveability. Also you’re making the statement that ele relies on active defense, i wonder how you want to pop those skills if you’re getting 1 shotted by thiefs without the extra vitality though….

All this is telling me that stacks are fundamentally flawed by design since attributes have different meaning for different classes. No one should have to – nor be able to – make a build require guard stacks. Which again is a good point to removing them and letting everyone readjust around this, instead of having an obviously broken system in place.

There’s nothing saying that eles will be underpowered after this, they might aswell simply have been slightly too powerful as it is now. Going full berseker while getting a large percentage hp increase from stacks isnt even remotely balanced, to be honest. Should necro be getting an equal relative percentage increase to damage through applied strength? No, stacks going away will be better in the long run.

i’m NOT saying that removing the guard stacks is a bad idea, i’m saying that anet has balanced WvW around having stacks. If you suddenly remove the guard stacks effecting some classes more then others, you’re creating a disbalance which should be compensated in some way.

splatticus.1278:

the krytan assassin.9235:

yes, 18-19k, add DS to it and you’re on 33k. The 2.5k hp isn’t gonna make a difference between getting the required HP to survive or not for the necro and normally not needed at all for a necro to survive. This means it’s almost a pure 8-10% dmge loss of ele compared to necro, without the necro losing anything of their surviveability. Also you’re making the statement that ele relies on active defense, i wonder how you want to pop those skills if you’re getting 1 shotted by thiefs without the extra vitality though….

All this is telling me that stacks are fundamentally flawed by design since attributes have different meaning for different classes. No one should have to – nor be able to – make a build require guard stacks. Which again is a good point to removing them and letting everyone readjust around this, instead of having an obviously broken system in place.

There’s nothing saying that eles will be underpowered after this, they might aswell simply have been slightly too powerful as it is now. Going full berseker while getting a large percentage hp increase from stacks isnt even remotely balanced, to be honest. Should necro be getting an equal relative percentage increase to damage through applied strength? No, stacks going away will be better in the long run.

We’ll see how it plays out after the change goes live. The benefit to stacks is that it reduces the impact in the HP disparity.

Without stacks a high HP class has 18,472 hp base and a low hp class has 10,905 hp base. That’s a 51.5% difference.

With stacks the high HP class has 20972 and the low hp class has 13045 which is a 44% difference.

So, if you think the disparity between the HP of different classes is too big (which I do) then you should be in favor of any generally applicable buff that reduces the impact of that disparity.

the krytan assassin.9235:

i’m NOT saying that removing the guard stacks is a bad idea, i’m saying that anet has balanced WvW around having stacks. If you suddenly remove the guard stacks effecting some classes more then others, you’re creating a disbalance which should be compensated in some way.

Yes, well. This is just like certain forms of CC were previously balanced around Stability being a duration-only buff, and are now ridiculously unbalanced due to their lack of a target/hit cap since Stability has been changed to a stacking buff.

Anet: When changes absolutely, positively have to be half-finished over night.

They never should have been in there in the first place. I’m ok with them removing them. I didn’t really pay attention to it anyway. But being a map hopper, it did irk me when I’d lose the stacks when I changed maps.

Now they just need to get rid of the Bloodlust buffs.

Everyone seems to be missing the really bad part of the changes though – the increase of siege damage from 5% to 10%. Yay lets make siege even stronger!

Lol, the ability to read must have become really hard these days….

The effects of the WvW buffs for kills won’t get removed.
They will just get baselined into the Rank System as automatic effects that you unlock for your characters once you reach WvW Rank 100 and Rank 200.

ANet nerfed absolutely nothign here at all!
They completely did the opposite >.> How people don’t grasp this on firts sight is absolutely not understanndable:

• They buffed all Effects by 100%, so instead of dealing laughable 5% more Damage tp NPCs and receiving laughable 5% lesser Damage from NPC’s, it will be now 10%

• They drastically reduced the required amounts of Ranks to max out the WvW Traits.
  So for example a person with like 1000 RP that just nearly maxed out everything will have definetely after the change now enough RP to max out everything, because you will have after the change like several hundreds of free RP to reallocate new into WVW traits, that weren’t maxed out yet.
  Alone the rudectuon from the Supply Trait from 300 Points to 145 points is huge, thats directly 155 more free RP to be spent into other Traits that you haven’t maxed before or for upcoming new WvW Traits like that one for that new Shield Generator Mastery that we will see with the new WvW Map….
  From the points that get freed up, everyone mostly will be able to instantly max out that new WvW Trait basically if you play WvW already long enough to have so much ranks.

However, the changes in general are very weak, its a nice Quality of Life Improvement for sure, but nothing more than that.
There are alot more required changes for WvW needed to improve it significantly so that this Game Mode will make fionally usage of all its potential that it has.

• Its about time, that Anet finally fixes all those ridiculous placeholder WvW Achievements
• Its about time, that Anet merges some of the WvW Traits together to create space for some new interestign and useful WvW Traits
• Its about time, that Anet expands the existing WvW Traits, because come on, we can get to freaking WvW Rank 10000!!! So there should be also content to fill those 10000 Ranks up with useful and appropiate WvW Character Progression and not only for roughly 10% of that…
• its about time that Anet adds class specific WvW Traits/Masteries, so that all classes in this Game will have options to improve their ROLES in and for WvW and to specialize into things, that do fit for WvW, like Thieves for example getting WvW related Infiltration, Sabotage and Espionage Traits for example to add to them more and better counterplay for example to Siege Weapons/Traps, like stealing or sabotaging an enemy’s Siege Weapons and using them against them, that when havign these traits it plays no role for your Thief anymore, who build the Siege Weapon, you can use it agaisnt your foes by either stealing it, or sabotaging it so that when the enemy tries to use the siege weapon, that it gets damaged with every usage so that it will get destroyed over time when it gets used, cause it got sabotaged, or that the enemy gets defeated, due to a deadly trap being attached to the siege weapon, which triggers if an enemy uses the siege weapon the next time

That would be the ultimate fun to see improvements, which would give classes in WvW ROLES

How much fun would it be to use stealth as a thief in wvw to sneak up to an enemy that uses a catapult agaisnt your walls, then sabotage the catapult in stealth, placing a time bomb at it, which triggers the next tiem the catapult gets uses and when it goes BOOM, deals significant damage to the catapult and downs all foes in a certain area around the catapult that got hit by the mighty sudden unsuspected explosion that came out of nothing.

DomAltares.8651:

the krytan assassin.9235:

i’m NOT saying that removing the guard stacks is a bad idea, i’m saying that anet has balanced WvW around having stacks. If you suddenly remove the guard stacks effecting some classes more then others, you’re creating a disbalance which should be compensated in some way.

Yes, well. This is just like certain forms of CC were previously balanced around Stability being a duration-only buff, and are now ridiculously unbalanced due to their lack of a target/hit cap since Stability has been changed to a stacking buff.

Anet: When changes absolutely, positively have to be half-finished over night.

If you think i think it’s balanced that i’m often with ~20 melee on my tag who are not able to do anything because the amount of CC is to big to push through, then you’re wrong. By making such update they nerfed the melee bigtime making them weaker+incredibely boring to play. Why would i remain silent when they’re trying to make another update that creates a bigger disbalance between the classes?

Goodbye 37k hp warrior build…..

the krytan assassin.9235:

i’m NOT saying that removing the guard stacks is a bad idea, i’m saying that anet has balanced WvW around having stacks. If you suddenly remove the guard stacks effecting some classes more then others, you’re creating a disbalance which should be compensated in some way.

Yes, it’ll create some chaos initially, but it’s a required step to getting closer to actual balance. Stacks are a huge pain in the kitten from a balance perspective since they don’t affect everyone the same, nor does everyone even have them to begin with.

With all the changes HoT is bringing, it’s even harder to jump to conclusion about things. Anet knows much more about the future than we; this change might make a lot more sense given the information we don’t know yet. For all we know, all our current gear and builds could be rendered obsolete in wvw when the expansion hits. Good thing is neither we nor Anet have to worry about guard stacks when it does.

So everyone should chill the kitten out and see this as a necessary evil to a possibly greater future that would’ve been completely impossible as it is now.

Johje Holan.4607:

Everyone seems to be missing the really bad part of the changes though – the increase of siege damage from 5% to 10%. Yay lets make siege even stronger!

The change to siege damage is just objectively bad. There’s nothing to debate about. Someone on the balance team likes the idea of a small group of people holding off an army from within a towers walls. And they are going to keep pushing the meta until that happens.

Step 1: Make it so smaller groups have no chance against a larger force.
Step 2: Buff siege to make it so the smaller force can wipe the larger force from within a wall.
Step 3: Wonder why no one likes WvW anymore… er… I mean… profit!

TyPin.9860:

Toxsa.2701:

TyPin.9860:

Toxsa.2701:

Hexalot.8194:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upgrading-world-vs-world-upgrades/

Due to granting the powerful Applied Fortitude and Applied Strength effects, the Defense Against Guards and Guard Killer lines needed to be extremely expensive, but that meant players often felt obligated to spend their first 230 points on these lines before they could begin branching out into other ability lines. Also, those two lines—along with the Siege Might, Siege Bunker, and Mercenary’s Bane lines that simply granted single percentage increases per ability rank—felt very weak. This drove our decision to shorten the Guard Killer and Defense Against Guards lines to five, removing Applied Strength and Applied Fortitude.

Enjoy it while it lasts folks…

Edit.. LOL, didn’t mean to post as a question. :-D

Bleh, another “noob-firendly” patch. All veterans should have grabbed everything useful already.. Losing that 100 power and 250 vit is going to hurt so much as a zerker class They really want those worthless newbies who almost never play wvw to be happy huh. They should be rank 500+ already at this point.

Exactly this kind of elitist entitlement approach is the thing that hurts WvW more than anything ANet can do.

After Account Bound Wxp, there’re really no more excuse for lack of rank points.
Seriously, the only possibility for lack of rank points is that you never play WvW at all…

Ever thought that with HoT maybe new players will join WvW? I agree for someone who regularly plays WvW, it would be easy to have already enough WvW ranks. However, this doesn’t change, that it is still a weird mechanic, that clearly puts the new player in an disadvantage. The WvW veteran has not only access to better stats, he draws also on more experience and possibly skill. I always was against those two bonuses anyway.

But that is not actually the point. The point is your attitude. You think, just because your way of playing leads to certain results, everyone else should be were you are or where you say they should be. Additionally your attitude towards “worthless newbies” is simply disgusting. You appear as a very entitled player, who believes his standards should be standards for all. This is what actually made me oppose you.

Why should the game balance cater to newer players by penalizing the choices of veteran players. You can’t and should not be able to pick something up and instantly be on a level playing field with someone who is a veteran of that something.

People who farmed ranks in order to gain these buffs did so by giving up coin for boosters/time to farm them, why should they be penalized because someone thinks new players that will come with hot deserve to be on a level playing field. They really don’t, they will not have put in the time nor effort, nor have gained the sufficent experience to be on a level playing field, and limiting our stat choices is a silly way to try to cater to new players.

Orpheal:
Lol, the ability to read must have become really hard these days….

The effects of the WvW buffs for kills won’t get removed.
They will just get baselined into the Rank System as automatic effects that you unlock for your characters once you reach WvW Rank 100 and Rank 200.

you’ve been deceived by reading the german patch notes, the english version stated it will be completely removed and german version stated it will be available at r100 and r200. 2 hrs later Collin stated on reddit (because the wvw forum obviously doesn’t exist anymore for devs) that the german statement is false and the wvw buffs will be completely removed

TooBz.3065:

So, if you think the disparity between the HP of different classes is too big (which I do) then you should be in favor of any generally applicable buff that reduces the impact of that disparity.

Core balance is a whole nother beast, but I will say that balancing it through stacks would be an absolutely mind-boggling bad way to go about doing it. Hence why I think a removal of them will be a good thing in the long run for balance. They’re cancer, and they need to go.

splatticus.1278:

TooBz.3065:

So, if you think the disparity between the HP of different classes is too big (which I do) then you should be in favor of any generally applicable buff that reduces the impact of that disparity.

Core balance is a whole nother beast, but I will say that balancing it through stacks would be an absolutely mind-boggling bad way to go about doing it. Hence why I think a removal of them will be a good thing in the long run for balance. They’re cancer, and they need to go.

Oh Absolutely, its a terrible way to do it! I don’t think they did it on purpose. I just think that their bad idea had some good side effects. TBH, I don’t expect them to properly balance WvW. I don’t think they even consider it.

the krytan assassin.9235:

Orpheal:
Lol, the ability to read must have become really hard these days….

The effects of the WvW buffs for kills won’t get removed.
They will just get baselined into the Rank System as automatic effects that you unlock for your characters once you reach WvW Rank 100 and Rank 200.

you’ve been deceived by reading the german patch notes, the english version stated it will be completely removed and german version stated it will be available at r100 and r200. 2 hrs later Collin stated on reddit (because the wvw forum obviously doesn’t exist anymore for devs) that the german statement is false and the wvw buffs will be completely removed

Yeah, saw this now too, as I saw people mentioned it, have read now both path notes and there is sadly really a different wording in both versions …
However, if the english version is correct, I juts hope only that ANet will remove then alos finally all buff items out of WvW that have nothing to search in it.

It ANet completely removes the WvW trait buffs, the Shrines and buff food will become alot more important, more important, than this stuff should ever be to be good for the game …

PS: goodbye to the ability to claim solo as Thief full build up camps!!
It was hard, but absolutely doable as a skilled thief with the little help of the WvW Trait buffs to kill all the NPCs quick enough to get a camp done, without those buffs, its nearly undoable to kill every quick enough ,before some stupid guarded dollies respawn or any killed npcs respawn, or some enemies show up before you are done >.<

Orpheal.8263:

Lol, the ability to read must have become really hard these days….

Here you go, buddy. I know reading is hard these days, so I’ll help you:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/36qzdj/upgrading_world_vs_world_upgrades/crgccbp

It certainly doesn’t help that he replies on reddit, instead of the official forums, so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

TooBz.3065:

splatticus.1278:

TooBz.3065:

So, if you think the disparity between the HP of different classes is too big (which I do) then you should be in favor of any generally applicable buff that reduces the impact of that disparity.

Core balance is a whole nother beast, but I will say that balancing it through stacks would be an absolutely mind-boggling bad way to go about doing it. Hence why I think a removal of them will be a good thing in the long run for balance. They’re cancer, and they need to go.

Oh Absolutely, its a terrible way to do it! I don’t think they did it on purpose. I just think that their bad idea had some good side effects. TBH, I don’t expect them to properly balance WvW. I don’t think they even consider it.

+1, it’s just that i’m worried that anet won’t be able to see the full consequenses of their updates <3 as they’ve disapointed me alot in the past xd

TooBz.3065:

Oh Absolutely, its a terrible way to do it! I don’t think they did it on purpose. I just think that their bad idea had some good side effects. TBH, I don’t expect them to properly balance WvW. I don’t think they even consider it.

Well, from the way i see it, anything they can do to ease balance in wvw will be good for the whole game.

As we all know, they balance things around pvp, but what stacks are currently doing is actually hindering balance even there. They may not ‘care’ about wvw balance, but they will at least never go so far as to make it completely broken; no class will ever become utterly op/up to the point of everyone else quitting. But as long as we have stacks, anything they do over in pvp for balance gets completely screwed up over in wvw because of it and they then have to consider that when balancing pvp. It just creates a big, unnecessary mess that doesn’t have to be.

Eles losing some damage from this because they now have to go a bit tankier is straight up an effect of that mess. Better change it now than creating an even bigger mess after HoT.

the krytan assassin.9235:

i’m saying that anet has balanced WvW around having stacks.

You think Anet balances for WvW?

Seems you just have the typical myopic view and can’t see the wood for the trees, you talk about balance and an 8-10% DPS loss on ele, when for most of the game you have had four classes vastly overrepresented in WvW (raids/zergs), and four very under-represented to the point one of them, engy has been pretty much unwanted for the entirety of the game, balance, LOL.

a lot of these changes seem to be great, and going in the right drection to make wvw more fun for all players, and not just the selct few. Working together is important and these help applies that notion further. Also new players getting into wvw will have a bit easier time getting into it while rewards the players they been in there a long time. This seems like a good step going foward and as we play it, I am sure tweaks will come.

:/ I was looking forward to that, it felt like having a worthwhile goal to work towards… So, I guess this a nerf to all classses with low base hp.

Its good to know where they are going with WvW. Without good rewards for veteran players who put in the time whats the point. I thought the Applied Fortitude and Strength were too minor of a reward and now they are removing even those. Time to look for a new game for me and my guild.

TJgalon.5012:

…while rewards the players they been in there a long time.

LOL. Balance issues aside (because there are plenty in WvW,) exactly how does removing a benefit that I earned over time ‘reward’ me?

zinkz.7045:

the krytan assassin.9235:

i’m saying that anet has balanced WvW around having stacks.

You think Anet balances for WvW?

Seems you just have the typical myopic view and can’t see the wood for the trees, you talk about balance and an 8-10% DPS loss on ele, when for most of the game you have had four classes vastly overrepresented in WvW (raids/zergs), and four very under-represented to the point one of them, engy has been pretty much unwanted for the entirety of the game, balance, LOL.

true, the game isn’t balanced right now with engi+mesmers struggeling to fit into the zergs, which is mostly caused by the core mechanics of the class. These core mechanics can only be fixed by fundamental changes to the skills/new weapons. However it’s still no excuse to further decrease the balance between the professions :p

I felt the health bonus was a bit large and annoying to kill guards and I understand that the stat creep might have been a problem, but the complete removal seems excessive. And this really shouldn’t be a problem for many users that play wvw regularly enough.

In any case, this seems to be a pretty bizarre “improvement” all and all. If they really cared about balance, they would look into consumables.

the krytan assassin.9235:

DomAltares.8651:

the krytan assassin.9235:

i’m NOT saying that removing the guard stacks is a bad idea, i’m saying that anet has balanced WvW around having stacks. If you suddenly remove the guard stacks effecting some classes more then others, you’re creating a disbalance which should be compensated in some way.

Yes, well. This is just like certain forms of CC were previously balanced around Stability being a duration-only buff, and are now ridiculously unbalanced due to their lack of a target/hit cap since Stability has been changed to a stacking buff.

Anet: When changes absolutely, positively have to be half-finished over night.

If you think i think it’s balanced that i’m often with ~20 melee on my tag who are not able to do anything because the amount of CC is to big to push through, then you’re wrong. By making such update they nerfed the melee bigtime making them weaker+incredibely boring to play. Why would i remain silent when they’re trying to make another update that creates a bigger disbalance between the classes?

Oh, believe me, I hate it if I gave you the wrong impression. You and I are in the same boat. I mained front line Guardian my entire time in WvW up until the stab changes, and having to die in every random pug’s static field, line, or ring of warding that goes down has made me retire it for the time being. Anet has been steadily screwing the pooch these past months with half finished or unbalanced changes. I’m all for every profession being viable in WvW, but bringing the others into the fold should never have come at the total expense of the existing meta. The shift toward pirate ship pug blobs is just as bad for diversity of gameplay as the previous GWEN focus was. I don’t know what the end result of these changes is, but they feel half finished or entirely broken, and should never have been released as they are.

Anet balanced WvW for casual players. Ok, that’s fine. Letting them feel welcome is ok. But what about us veterans? We worked hard to max out our WvW traits. They should add new things for us to specialize in with our extra points. Something to say that “you played a long time, here’s something to make it worthwhile”.

I know it hard for me t see cons in this, mostly being the middle wvw player, or maybe less, seeing the amount of levels needed to earn any real benifits, but this still feels like a good step forward. I don’t know, I see pro then cons here, and who to say whatever will change later too. Sometimes I feel you just need to go with it, then against it, adapt a little and remember, anything you might lose is effected to every player too. So you lose a little vitality, so does the heavy armor classes out there, and any so on and so on.

“worked hard to earn our wvw traits”

lol, ktraining so hard

Blix.8021:

“worked hard to earn our wvw traits”

lol, ktraining so hard

Yet not everyone ktrains or wants to. Oh some do, others did it only to get ranks, but still leaves a lot that don’t like ktraining, and feel all these changes will only really benefit that.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Blix.8021:

“worked hard to earn our wvw traits”

lol, ktraining so hard

Yet not everyone ktrains or wants to. Oh some do, others did it only to get ranks, but still leaves a lot that don’t like ktraining, and feel all these changes will only really benefit that.

Actively playing your BL or EBG will get you enough WXP to get you over rank 1,000 by now. No Karma Training in EotM necessary.

Not exactly sure yet why this should be ‘improvement’, I feel it’s again catering the beginners and taking away sense of progress and achievement.