Guild Wars 2

selan.8354:

Johje Holan.4607:

selan.8354:

Chorazin.4107:

Nokaru.7831:

So should they allow consumables like Experimental Rifle to work in World vs. World now? (This item used to work in World vs. World by the way…) Or maybe they should allow Teleport to Friend and Revive Orbs to work in World vs. World too. Because after all, World vs. World was never supposed to be balanced!

There were some things like spike fruit(lulz) that were clearly broken and needed to be removed(despite the hilarity factor).

dont forget the peg leg disaster. o.0

with not being balanced i agree. so yeah a player that has played wvw for a long time should maybe have access to certain buffs. thats something a new player can look up to and achieve with the same amount of effort. abusing and exploit a certain pve item that offers little to no counter play can hardly be compared to applied fortitude ang stacks.

But simply saying that WvW is not supposed to be balanced doesn’t mean that it is good to introduce even more imbalance. Which is what the guard stacks do. And other things that Anet introduced after launch as well – BL buff and masteries in general and superior siege.

not that massive of an imbalance. if i gforget to eat food, then i see a big difference! and even if my guild gets wiped we have no stacks and manage to zerbust a full guardstacked zerg…. its really not suuuuch a big difference, but it did make players feel like they have worked for something. i remember when the ranks were brand new. and we all grinded our way up there.

Taken individually each additional buff may not be that big of an imbalance. But all together buffs can add up.

selan.8354:

not really. it was a goal to have it. i actually mastered my cata first and supply cap and siege mastery. and my guild ran without those 2 buffs for a very very long time even though others had it. stop making it look like that a guy with full stacks 1 shots u because u dont have full stacks! u got 1 shot because zerker!

I’m wondering if that zerker will need to think twice about their full zerk build though when Applied Fortitude isn’t available. Some posters seem to indicate that it gave them the cushion in defense that allowed them to go full on zerk. Plus they also had the Power and Condi buff from the Strength.

Dawdler.8521:

selan.8354:

i remember when the ranks were brand new. and we all grinded our way up there.

Hahaha that was hardly because it was “rewarding” to have it… Everyone and their grandma knew that the applied fortitude/strength was needed to compete in WvW due to the insanely high bonuses. That’s why people rushed it.

Those were the last things I got. You get things from the other masteries that you can’t get anywhere else. Skill means a lot more than having 100 more power or 2500 more health.

Everyone had them (except for the peasants*), now everyone doesn’t have them. Its not gonna make a big difference to wvw.

Turn your outrage to something more productive….. Like how much of a soul sucking experience it is to craft a stack of superior siege!!

• Shinji if you read this I mean you

Johje Holan.4607:

selan.8354:

Johje Holan.4607:

selan.8354:

Chorazin.4107:

Nokaru.7831:

So should they allow consumables like Experimental Rifle to work in World vs. World now? (This item used to work in World vs. World by the way…) Or maybe they should allow Teleport to Friend and Revive Orbs to work in World vs. World too. Because after all, World vs. World was never supposed to be balanced!

There were some things like spike fruit(lulz) that were clearly broken and needed to be removed(despite the hilarity factor).

dont forget the peg leg disaster. o.0

with not being balanced i agree. so yeah a player that has played wvw for a long time should maybe have access to certain buffs. thats something a new player can look up to and achieve with the same amount of effort. abusing and exploit a certain pve item that offers little to no counter play can hardly be compared to applied fortitude ang stacks.

But simply saying that WvW is not supposed to be balanced doesn’t mean that it is good to introduce even more imbalance. Which is what the guard stacks do. And other things that Anet introduced after launch as well – BL buff and masteries in general and superior siege.

not that massive of an imbalance. if i gforget to eat food, then i see a big difference! and even if my guild gets wiped we have no stacks and manage to zerbust a full guardstacked zerg…. its really not suuuuch a big difference, but it did make players feel like they have worked for something. i remember when the ranks were brand new. and we all grinded our way up there.

Taken individually each additional buff may not be that big of an imbalance. But all together buffs can add up.

selan.8354:

not really. it was a goal to have it. i actually mastered my cata first and supply cap and siege mastery. and my guild ran without those 2 buffs for a very very long time even though others had it. stop making it look like that a guy with full stacks 1 shots u because u dont have full stacks! u got 1 shot because zerker!

I’m wondering if that zerker will need to think twice about their full zerk build though when Applied Fortitude isn’t available. Some posters seem to indicate that it gave them the cushion in defense that allowed them to go full on zerk. Plus they also had the Power and Condi buff from the Strength.

my guild gets wiped right in fron of the keep. we respawn and demolish the fully stacked zerg with no problem. a little buff from a guardstack is not going to make a difference. very often i have no stacks and still win 1v1s vs stacked players. e new player will lose and die a lot in his first few weeks in wvw anyways. guards stacks are not the ones to blame there.

personal i don’t feel Applied Fortitude and Strength or bloodlust buff have any meaning to exist in wvw . they all give stat bonus with zero effort from players and are tools for server score manipulation .

not need at all to have them in wvw

selan.8354:

my guild gets wiped right in fron of the keep. we respawn and demolish the fully stacked zerg with no problem. a little buff from a guardstack is not going to make a difference. very often i have no stacks and still win 1v1s vs stacked players. e new player will lose and die a lot in his first few weeks in wvw anyways. guards stacks are not the ones to blame there.

If you win 1v1 vs a stacked player when you have no stacks and no food… then either you brought the perfect counter build by sheer luck or you where the better player (or he was upscaled). That’s not the situation that fortitude/strength is unfair in.

Imagine if YOU had the stacks in all those 1v1 wins and they do not. Like beating on a baby. You clearly didnt need them if you still win fights. But if someone offered the stacks for free and it would have made an easy prey even easier… you would have taken the stacks, right? If you say yes, then that’s exactly why the stacks shouldnt be in the game. If you say no, that’s exactly why the stacks are pointless and not needed. Take your pick.

Stacks are needed period for roaming… It makes 2v1 much smoother unless you going against a 2ppl with massive Condi’s or something. If they have the stacks whatever its fair but either way 2500hp makes a huge difference when your server is dead half the time and your left trying to solo or just running havc groups. Thanks anet for making gvg’s a pain with the new stability change….then this hurts smaller groups trying to do anything in wvw. I posted my other reasons on page 6 but this is ridiculous…why fix something that isint broken.

This update once again hurts zerker builds….while AGAIN along with all the condi changes making condi classes even more OP…. I mean did you even even look at the PVP Leaderboards? Hmmmm I wonder why condi classes are all in top tier ….Anet solution- let’s keep nerfing power builds yaaaaaaaay.

To anyone who doesint agree just look up the stats and the leaderboards…I’m just giving facts here.

DevJD.5483:

Thanks anet for making gvg’s a pain with the new stability change….then this hurts smaller groups trying to do anything in wvw. I posted my other reasons on page 6 but this is ridiculous…why fix something that isint broken.

We asked ourselves the same question when the buffs was introduced, sigh…

Also, their removal is a major boost to quick GvG scrims on normal borders. In 20vs20 and one side wipe in round 1, the buffs are making it effectivly ~24vs20 in round 2 (fortitude+strength+bloodlust). Ie its kicking the player that’s already down.

Well, assuming that’s what GvG people want. Maybe they dont.

Reborn.2934:

personal i don’t feel Applied Fortitude and Strength or bloodlust buff have any meaning to exist in wvw . they all give stat bonus with zero effort from players and are tools for server score manipulation .

not need at all to have them in wvw

wonder if they are going to make those buffs to be aquired on BL upgrades, SM etc, like boost when aquire important place.

Good change. Applied Fortitude providing an equal amount of HP to professions with low HP and high HP was definetly unbalanced, clearly benefiting low HP classes way more.
Those low HP class players are the ones that are going to trash talk this post.

It also benefited older players over new ones, as well as creating the illusion of choice with WvW traits as they were effectively mandatory.

It also favoured the bigger groups, as these effects are obviously exponetially stronger the bigger the zerg is.

The most important one. This created stat over-bloat. Where some build options on some professions could deliberately forfeit defensive (or even offensive) stats in order to attain an unbalanced state of high defense and enormously high offense (or vice-versa). A situation which goes way beyond tweaking some numbers, as said buffs are applied to every single profession alike, regardless of build.

The supposed lack of ‘fear of death’ due to this change is not actually true. You will avoid death just as much as you do now, and just as much as you did before these buffs were even implemented some time ago.

The ‘dumbing down’ argument is and always will be a flawed one and holds little weight if at all. The ‘why’ is quite evident, it doesn’t really need to be specified.

All in all, again, good changes.

OK so I play WvW a lot, I have plenty of ranks and nothing to spend it on, now they plan on removing things to spend ranks on. For the people who love playing wvw this is a really bad thing. I have now been given even more to spend on nothing. I haven’t read up much on this topic but they shouldn’t be removing things, they should be adding more.

They may want to attract more people to wvw but this isn’t the way.

The new maps is a way, another way to get more people in would be not just adding one map, but adding 3 maps, desert map for red borderland, snow map for blue borderland, tropical map for green borderland. And a mixture of all 3 maps meeting at stone mist which could change depending on who owns it. This would make me so happy and would certainly Encourage me to play. People want new things to keep them interested or the wvw Veterans will get bored and leave, karma trains and zerg will be what will happen. Small scale groups on skilled fighters will leave because there’s nothing left to achieve. This will happen, guild wars 2 has the best pvp in almost any mmo and arenanet is leaving it alone. Why would anyone leave such a prized part of their game alone.

If you have read through and liked what I have written and have noticed anything you want expanding on, please contact me ingame. I’m on a majority of the time and mainly in wvw.

GACC.9371:

OK so I play WvW a lot, I have plenty of ranks and nothing to spend it on, now they plan on removing things to spend ranks on. For the people who love playing wvw this is a really bad thing. I have now been given even more to spend on nothing. I haven’t read up much on this topic but they shouldn’t be removing things, they should be adding more.

They may want to attract more people to wvw but this isn’t the way.

The new maps is a way, another way to get more people in would be not just adding one map, but adding 3 maps, desert map for red borderland, snow map for blue borderland, tropical map for green borderland. And a mixture of all 3 maps meeting at stone mist which could change depending on who owns it. This would make me so happy and would certainly Encourage me to play. People want new things to keep them interested or the wvw Veterans will get bored and leave, karma trains and zerg will be what will happen. Small scale groups on skilled fighters will leave because there’s nothing left to achieve. This will happen, guild wars 2 has the best pvp in almost any mmo and arenanet is leaving it alone. Why would anyone leave such a prized part of their game alone.

If you have read through and liked what I have written and have noticed anything you want expanding on, please contact me ingame. I’m on a majority of the time and mainly in wvw.

Gaara I’ve never seen you be so well spoken xD

Khenzy.9348:

Good change. Applied Fortitude providing an equal amount of HP to professions with low HP and high HP was definetly unbalanced, clearly benefiting low HP classes way more.
Those low HP class players are the ones that are going to trash talk this post.

It also benefited older players over new ones, as well as creating the illusion of choice with WvW traits as they were effectively mandatory.

seems like you’re an embittered warrior/necro demanding everyone else be given less for the same amount of effort.

and wow, an mmo that benefits players who have played it longer. completely unprecedented.

Xillllix.3485:

So:

Removed the Orb
Removed Buffs
Removed Quaggan event for stand in circle Ruin event
Nefed stand in circle Ruin buff
Removed Players Upgrades to keeps and camps

Seems we’re getting there, there is not much left going for this boring BL map.
You only need to remove the kitten map! …Oh wait, you are going to remove the map.

Victory at last! Map defeated.

I lol’d. Seems the only kind of WvW change ArenaNet knows is removal of things.

Sirendor.1394:

Xillllix.3485:

So:

Removed the Orb
Removed Buffs
Removed Quaggan event for stand in circle Ruin event
Nefed stand in circle Ruin buff
Removed Players Upgrades to keeps and camps

Seems we’re getting there, there is not much left going for this boring BL map.
You only need to remove the kitten map! …Oh wait, you are going to remove the map.

Victory at last! Map defeated.

I lol’d. Seems the only kind of WvW change ArenaNet knows is removal of things.

Ironic, considering fortitude and strength was added to WvW (without anyone ever requesting it).

Dawdler.8521:

Sirendor.1394:

Xillllix.3485:

So:

Removed the Orb
Removed Buffs
Removed Quaggan event for stand in circle Ruin event
Nefed stand in circle Ruin buff
Removed Players Upgrades to keeps and camps

Seems we’re getting there, there is not much left going for this boring BL map.
You only need to remove the kitten map! …Oh wait, you are going to remove the map.

Victory at last! Map defeated.

I lol’d. Seems the only kind of WvW change ArenaNet knows is removal of things.

Ironic, considering fortitude and strength was added to WvW (without anyone ever requesting it).

Ah Ah! But before anything can be removed there has to be something “added”. It’s just curious that we didn’t really see many additions, but a lot of things were removed (orbs, storm isle, now ruins, bloodlust, applied stacks…), while in most other games there’s continually expansion on existing content.

TyPin.9860:

@nightblood:
No, I don’t believe they will add additional stats to gear. The gear will simply become more powerful (the gear attributes get stronger). So a 00266 Zerker Ele (who actually become a ‘00666’ Zerker Ele) would have significantly less HP and Healing Power than she has now. Toughness would be a bit more even. But she would also have significantly more Power, Crit Chance and Crit Damage than now.

So why not give up some of the extra offensive stats gained for some defensive gear? There, “problem” (it wasn’t a problem to begin with, just a new meta) solved. No need to streamline all gear with more attributes.

The only obstacle I see is that ppl might have to reinvest in new gear. Hopefully ANet will offer something for WvW players in this regard, especially getting expensive runes out of your WvW gear would be appreciated by the community, I believe.

Dream on. the last thing they even consider is wvw, the chances of them making a major change like making it possible to remove runes from the 20+ armor sets I use for wvw when current builds become useless is precisely zero. OK, not all of them are wvw sets, but you get the point.

May as well wish for something to do with all those badges, or even funnier hope they fix the wvw achievements…

Will my heavily armored high HP warrior miss them? no.
Will my cloth wearing low HP classes miss them- yes.

Guess it will encourage more pew pew rangers and ranged necros, along with warriors ‘press 1’.

Removes a lot of build choices, when you’d hope they would want to expand build choice- but then the game is centred around some niche spvp ‘e-sport’ so I don’t hold out much hope.

Zetsumei.4975:

GACC.9371:

OK so I play WvW a lot, I have plenty of ranks and nothing to spend it on, now they plan on removing things to spend ranks on. For the people who love playing wvw this is a really bad thing. I have now been given even more to spend on nothing. I haven’t read up much on this topic but they shouldn’t be removing things, they should be adding more.

They may want to attract more people to wvw but this isn’t the way.

The new maps is a way, another way to get more people in would be not just adding one map, but adding 3 maps, desert map for red borderland, snow map for blue borderland, tropical map for green borderland. And a mixture of all 3 maps meeting at stone mist which could change depending on who owns it. This would make me so happy and would certainly Encourage me to play. People want new things to keep them interested or the wvw Veterans will get bored and leave, karma trains and zerg will be what will happen. Small scale groups on skilled fighters will leave because there’s nothing left to achieve. This will happen, guild wars 2 has the best pvp in almost any mmo and arenanet is leaving it alone. Why would anyone leave such a prized part of their game alone.

If you have read through and liked what I have written and have noticed anything you want expanding on, please contact me ingame. I’m on a majority of the time and mainly in wvw.

Gaara I’ve never seen you be so well spoken xD

Ok apparently I’ve got the wrong guy xD you have the same accountname as a friend

plz downlevel ascended weapon, ascended armor and legendary weapon. New players got no chance again vet players.

Taxidriver.2043:

plz downlevel ascended weapon, ascended armor and legendary weapon. New players got no chance again vet players.

That’s fair everyone can get it with grinding out …. oh wait.

The question you all have to ask yourselves is do you want WvW to follow the same ruleset as PvP? Only certain stat selections, no food, no consumables, etc.

The new WvW advancement system is basically an anti-NPC and siege ability enhancer (note, siege could just work functionally with increased damage, AoE size, range, or abilities without any additional WvW ranks). In other words, if you are ANet, why would you stop at Strength/Fortitude stacks?

EDIT: Would be nice for the WvW designer (Tyler Bearce) to stop on by and give some thoughts on design choice by axing this without compensation elsewhere.

… “players at the top ranks have a large advantage due to having spent points in powerful ability lines. . Tyler said that the WvW team also felt as though many of the lines needed to be changed or removed to be more useful for WvW.” … implies that more WvW mastery ranks will be killed off.

GACC.9371:

OK so I play WvW a lot, I have plenty of ranks and nothing to spend it on, now they plan on removing things to spend ranks on. For the people who love playing wvw this is a really bad thing. I have now been given even more to spend on nothing. I haven’t read up much on this topic but they shouldn’t be removing things, they should be adding more.

They may want to attract more people to wvw but this isn’t the way.

The new maps is a way, another way to get more people in would be not just adding one map, but adding 3 maps, desert map for red borderland, snow map for blue borderland, tropical map for green borderland. .

Another way would be to actually look at the CDi they conducted and implement the suggestions from that. It beggars belief that 3 years after release this still remains the only mmo without larger scale raid type grouping just for example, or the simple task to make achievements more reasonable. And not make changes that no-one was calling for.

I find it ridiculous that even for the expansion they apparently haven’t been working on any of these ideas.

Artaz.3819:

Taxidriver.2043:

plz downlevel ascended weapon, ascended armor and legendary weapon. New players got no chance again vet players.

That’s fair everyone can get it with grinding out …. oh wait.

---

The question you all have to ask yourselves is do you want WvW to follow the same ruleset as PvP? Only certain stat selections, no food, no consumables, etc.

The new WvW advancement system is basically an anti-NPC and siege ability enhancer (note, siege could just work functionally with increased damage, AoE size, range, or abilities without any additional WvW ranks). In other words, if you are ANet, why would you stop at Strength/Fortitude stacks?

EDIT: Would be nice for the WvW designer (Tyler Bearce) to stop on by and give some thoughts on design choice by axing this without compensation elsewhere.

… “players at the top ranks have a large advantage due to having spent points in powerful ability lines. . Tyler said that the WvW team also felt as though many of the lines needed to be changed or removed to be more useful for WvW.” … implies that more WvW mastery ranks will be killed off.

Personally, I’d like WvW to be unfair and breakable. It’s one of the few havens for whacky, broken builds these days. However, I’d like everyone to have equal opportunities to break it and make their opponents cry.

What that means is that I don’t think that some of the unfair stuff should be locked behind WvW ranks. Let build skill and innovation be the driving factors behind success, not whether or not you have enough ranks.

sinject.4607:

Khenzy.9348:

Good change. Applied Fortitude providing an equal amount of HP to professions with low HP and high HP was definetly unbalanced, clearly benefiting low HP classes way more.
Those low HP class players are the ones that are going to trash talk this post.

It also benefited older players over new ones, as well as creating the illusion of choice with WvW traits as they were effectively mandatory.

seems like you’re an embittered warrior/necro demanding everyone else be given less for the same amount of effort.

and wow, an mmo that benefits players who have played it longer. completely unprecedented.

I tried to give well articulated and fair points as to why this is a good change in my opinion, but to no avail, it seems. Regardless of what profession I play, which is totally besides the point. Feel free to counter-argue with me, but make it so with valid points. If everyone loses the buffs, noone gains, period. The profession with lower HP pools are balaced becouse of their squishiness. These buffs provide a much, much higher HP to low HP professions in comparision to what their balance is intended for.

Also, if you want to reward older players, you don’t do it by giving them an even higher stat advantage, but maybe… through item rewards that don’t provide an actual in-combat advantage? So, you know, the game can be more fun and competitive to the highest amount of players possible? You aren’t that close-minded, aren’t you?

As Steve Fowler would surmise, how do you drive player engagement without rewarding players who participate from top to bottom? Removing WvW rewards will drive the opposite of player engagement which means less $$$ for you all and a shrinking dedicated WvW player base.

This is a poor decision no matter how you want new players to be engaged. There are clearly just better alternatives to have new players enjoy WvW (hint, Applied Fortitude/Strength is not the driver behind new players not enjoying WvW).

Artaz.3819:

Taxidriver.2043:

plz downlevel ascended weapon, ascended armor and legendary weapon. New players got no chance again vet players.

That’s fair everyone can get it with grinding out …. oh wait.

---

The question you all have to ask yourselves is do you want WvW to follow the same ruleset as PvP? Only certain stat selections, no food, no consumables, etc.

The new WvW advancement system is basically an anti-NPC and siege ability enhancer (note, siege could just work functionally with increased damage, AoE size, range, or abilities without any additional WvW ranks). In other words, if you are ANet, why would you stop at Strength/Fortitude stacks?

EDIT: Would be nice for the WvW designer (Tyler Bearce) to stop on by and give some thoughts on design choice by axing this without compensation elsewhere.

… “players at the top ranks have a large advantage due to having spent points in powerful ability lines. . Tyler said that the WvW team also felt as though many of the lines needed to be changed or removed to be more useful for WvW.” … implies that more WvW mastery ranks will be killed off.

I think they should get rid of AC Mastery, Golem Mastery and the Supply Drain ones from Treb Mastery too.

Just because they remove certain masteries doesn’t mean it needs to follow the same ruleset as PvP.

This is actually a good thing IMO if and if you get some compensation from the spare points you now will have more than enough. Im at rank 1590 so I have about 200 spare points now. After this patch I will have plenty more. So its ok as long as they compesate something for ppl that have grinded high rank in some way or another.

Eotm made the wvw rank a joke anyway. With bd-boosters you could hoard ranks whilst leveling chars and karma training ridicilously fast anyway. I did that myself to max the traits to get all the masteries capped

Lots of the more skillfull wvw players that have mainly roamed havent had the possibilty to gain high rank

I see often the claim that the removal of those buffs also make builds not viable any more. Can someone link me a build, and explain me, why this one relies on guard stacks?

TyPin.9860:

I see often the claim that the removal of those buffs also make builds not viable any more. Can someone link me a build, and explain me, why this one relies on guard stacks?

Full zerk staff ele builds rely pretty heavily on guard stacks (the extra vitality is literally a 20% boost to my health pool). It’s the difference between a thief taking out half my health in a backstab (with stacks) vs. 2/3 of my health (without stacks). Combined with the removal of stats from traits, it’s pretty much going to make zerk staff ele backliner builds unviable, and possibly other zerk backliner builds (necros, rangers) as well.

That said, I’ve already said I support the removal of stacks, I think they were a bad thing to implement in the first place. But I’m definitely going to have to change my gear because of it, and possibly my trait setup too, which I and others aren’t thrilled about.

BrickFurious.7169:

TyPin.9860:

I see often the claim that the removal of those buffs also make builds not viable any more. Can someone link me a build, and explain me, why this one relies on guard stacks?

Full zerk staff ele builds rely pretty heavily on guard stacks (the extra vitality is literally a 20% boost to my health pool). It’s the difference between a thief taking out half my health in a backstab (with stacks) vs. 2/3 of my health (without stacks). Combined with the removal of stats from traits, it’s pretty much going to make zerk staff ele backliner builds unviable, and possibly other zerk backliner builds (necros, rangers) as well.

That said, I’ve already said I support the removal of stacks, I think they were a bad thing to implement in the first place. But I’m definitely going to have to change my gear because of it, and possibly my trait setup too, which I and others aren’t thrilled about.

To be fair, if you are full zerk, full stacks wouldn’t save you from some thief builds, or mes, or warrior, or… etc.