Guild Wars 2

YAh, No.

I had a brutally fun fight with a ranger, and after I won he partied me (I thought it was removed, but he was still able to do it). He was harder to fight then almost every backstab thief I put the beatdown on.

Anyway, we chatted and I watched him destroy person after person solo and beat almost every 1vs2 he was in. It was a blast to watch.

It isn’t the class that is crappy, it is the builds people are using, and probably play style.
If you spec for blob fighting, then you will get buried 100% in a 1v1. How can you expect anything else?

Not sure if trolling or what…

mesmer, thief and engi are better roamers, guardian and warrior are better in zerging, ele/necro are better at support.

ranger excels in nothing

Yep you’re right, its the build and playstyle from some people giving the class a bad reputation, if well build and knowledge you can be a threat. Though it still remains the underdog class with some internal problems like pet AI and traits.

Rangers are strong when the size of the group they are with or fighting, is 3 or less. The more people that are added after that, the ranger should be replaced with another class that does what you want from the ranger, better.

Also, all good rangers could instantly tell you what build the person was running after a few seconds of fighting. Rangers only have 2 builds that work well and 30 points are always in the same trait line.

There is no speccing for blob as a ranger, that is the point.
That ranger has 1 or 2 good builds for spvp and roaming we already knew, you didn’t strike gold.
Too bad WvW is not about roaming.

Tricare.2946:

Rangers are strong when the size of the group they are with or fighting, is 3 or less. The more people that are added after that, the ranger should be replaced with another class that does what you want from the ranger, better.

Also, all good rangers could instantly tell you what build the person was running after a few seconds of fighting. Rangers only have 2 builds that work well and 30 points are always in the same trait line.

2 builds?
yes, that would be true, if it was still july 2013.

sminkiottone.6972:

Not sure if trolling or what…

mesmer, thief and engi are better roamers, guardian and warrior are better in zerging, ele/necro are better at support.

ranger excels in nothing

Not a troll. I have a guardian partner and we kill any 2/3 and most 4 man groups we come across. He is getting his ranger up to speed and I am looking forward to two man roaming with it because I know first hand how effective a proper ranger roaming build can be.

The ranger that partied with me stood roughly equal distance between the SW garrison gate and East Bay gate just waiting for 1v1 and 1v2 fights. I watched his health, I watched the condi’s and vulnerabilities on him, and I watched him dispatch every 1v1 and almost every 1v2.

So if this guy can do it, others can do it. Maybe part of the problem is ranger players have been brainwashed that their professions are so bad they will never win.

Prysin.8542:

2 builds?
yes, that would be true, if it was still july 2013.

Yeah, there are more than 2. However, they are just variations of builds, with the same base set up. There are no good power builds, you will die to all conditions.

Aioros.4862:

There is no speccing for blob as a ranger, that is the point.
That ranger has 1 or 2 good builds for spvp and roaming we already knew, you didn’t strike gold.
Too bad WvW is not about roaming.

Made me laugh.

You did read I play a thief right? How many builds do you think a thief has to choose from? A backstab thief plays the same build roaming/havoking/blobbing. A condition thief does the same.

The only difference I use if I am in a blob, is I will use caltrops and dagger storm for keep defense. You shadow refuge inside the keep. roll out the doors, drop caltrops on the rams or a group behind the rams (depending how they are attacking), then start to dagger storm so they do not realize their are caltrops are bleeding them. They stay in the circle trying to kill the solo thief, and their health levels plummet. Lots of fun to do right before your back up squad attacks.

Tricare.2946:

Prysin.8542:

2 builds?
yes, that would be true, if it was still july 2013.

Yeah, there are more than 2. However, they are just variations of builds, with the same base set up. There are no good power builds, you will die to all conditions.

Every class dies to conditions.

The Ranger class itself does have a few very strong builds (Spirit Rangers) and can require some finesse to play well.

Unfortunately the Ranger archetype has also established itself as the MMO profession that attracts the largest portion of slackers, afkers and poor players. They are generally drawn to this archetype because the pet combined with a ranged weapon makes it virtually impossible to fail.

It’s been the same in every MMO and GW2 is no exception.

Yes, Rangers could do with a rework, especially concerning passive play and pet AI. But it’s the Ranger player-base themselves that have earned it the terrible reputation it has.

Dee Jay.2460:

The Ranger class itself does have a few very strong builds (Spirit Rangers) and can require some finesse to play well.

Unfortunately the Ranger archetype has also established itself as the MMO profession that attracts the largest portion of slackers, afkers and poor players. They are generally drawn to this archetype because the pet combined with a ranged weapon makes it virtually impossible to fail.

It’s been the same in every MMO and GW2 is no exception.

Yes, Rangers could do with a rework, especially concerning passive play and pet AI. But it’s the Ranger player-base themselves that have earned it the terrible reputation it has.

100% agree. I saw a ranger afk the lions arch scarlet fight and not die.

Jitters.9401:

Tricare.2946:

Prysin.8542:

2 builds?
yes, that would be true, if it was still july 2013.

Yeah, there are more than 2. However, they are just variations of builds, with the same base set up. There are no good power builds, you will die to all conditions.

Every class dies to conditions.

You shouldn’t ignore my other post and just pick this one to respond to.

Tricare.2946:

Prysin.8542:

2 builds?
yes, that would be true, if it was still july 2013.

Yeah, there are more than 2. However, they are just variations of builds, with the same base set up. There are no good power builds, you will die to all conditions.

been rolling power for months. Many of my builds doesnt even use WS line. Yet, i do not have that many problems with conditions, nor survivability. Infact, i find it ridiculous that when i first do run a build that requires investment in the WS line, the class gets 3 times easier to play.

Jitters.9401:

YAh, No.

I had a brutally fun fight with a ranger, and after I won he partied me (I thought it was removed, but he was still able to do it). He was harder to fight then almost every backstab thief I put the beatdown on.

Anyway, we chatted and I watched him destroy person after person solo and beat almost every 1vs2 he was in. It was a blast to watch.

It isn’t the class that is crappy, it is the builds people are using, and probably play style.
If you spec for blob fighting, then you will get buried 100% in a 1v1. How can you expect anything else?

You know the saying?
A good Ranger would be an awesome anything else…

Yeah, some rangers are great, but put two mid-level players (skillwise) against each other in any settings, and rangers will lose to all…
Two high level players? Well, if the ranger’s foe knows a little bit about rangers (and mostly ranger’s pet), they’ll have no problem avoiding the pet and any arrows, if the rangers plays with bow…

Jocksy.3415:

Jitters.9401:

YAh, No.

I had a brutally fun fight with a ranger, and after I won he partied me (I thought it was removed, but he was still able to do it). He was harder to fight then almost every backstab thief I put the beatdown on.

Anyway, we chatted and I watched him destroy person after person solo and beat almost every 1vs2 he was in. It was a blast to watch.

It isn’t the class that is crappy, it is the builds people are using, and probably play style.
If you spec for blob fighting, then you will get buried 100% in a 1v1. How can you expect anything else?

You know the saying?
A good Ranger would be an awesome anything else…

Yeah, some rangers are great, but put two mid-level players (skillwise) against each other in any settings, and rangers will lose to all…
Two high level players? Well, if the ranger’s foe knows a little bit about rangers (and mostly ranger’s pet), they’ll have no problem avoiding the pet and any arrows, if the rangers plays with bow…

You should not be afraid of bow rangers (unless their full signet and glass, those builds hurts). The rangers you should be afraid of is the melee rangers.

Tricare.2946:

Rangers are strong when the size of the group they are with or fighting, is 3 or less. The more people that are added after that, the ranger should be replaced with another class that does what you want from the ranger, better.

Also, all good rangers could instantly tell you what build the person was running after a few seconds of fighting. Rangers only have 2 builds that work well and 30 points are always in the same trait line.

This post?

Your first part makes no sense. The ranger is equally as strong in every scenario. That will never change. Another perfect example is the backstab thief. They are always the same strength. The only issue is how they use that strength in zerg fighting.

You will see backstab thieves on the outskirts taking down squishies. Rangers can do their own version of that or just sit and tag as many enemies as possible for loot bags. Either way, their strength does not ever change. I’ve not seen any ranger doing anything but go straight for loot bag acquisition.

Prysin.8542:

Tricare.2946:

Prysin.8542:

2 builds?
yes, that would be true, if it was still july 2013.

Yeah, there are more than 2. However, they are just variations of builds, with the same base set up. There are no good power builds, you will die to all conditions.

been rolling power for months. Many of my builds doesnt even use WS line. Yet, i do not have that many problems with conditions, nor survivability. Infact, i find it ridiculous that when i first do run a build that requires investment in the WS line, the class gets 3 times easier to play.

The only way you are making power work is either:

1. You are facing unskilled players that don’t know what they are doing.
2. You are in a larger group where you don’t die. However, you could be replaced for another class that’s better suited for the job.
3. You’re some how way better than anyone in the game and can play a class with the worst possible build and still win.

The class gets 3x easier because you actually have condition removal then, that sorta works.

Jitters.9401:

Tricare.2946:

Rangers are strong when the size of the group they are with or fighting, is 3 or less. The more people that are added after that, the ranger should be replaced with another class that does what you want from the ranger, better.

Also, all good rangers could instantly tell you what build the person was running after a few seconds of fighting. Rangers only have 2 builds that work well and 30 points are always in the same trait line.

This post?

Your first part makes no sense. The ranger is equally as strong in every scenario. That will never change. Another perfect example is the backstab thief. They are always the same strength. The only issue is how they use that strength in zerg fighting.

You will see backstab thieves on the outskirts taking down squishies. Rangers can do their own version of that or just sit and tag as many enemies as possible for loot bags. Either way, their strength does not ever change. I’ve not seen any ranger doing anything but go straight for loot bag acquisition.

why would your average ranger do anything but lootbag acquisition?
Staff eles do it, however they can offer more then just heavy AOE DPS. Staff Guards does it, staff necros does it, grenade/FT engies does it.

Unlike the other professions, rangers can just equip longbow, piercing arrows, 2 stunbreakers, 1 invuln, trait for passive condi removal and an elite giving them half a minute of stability…. it is EZMODE, to roll a tagging build. total ezmode. zero effort maximum profit.

What I find Super Super Super funny is that after I started this post about a Ranger who was beating person after person 1v1 and winning almost ever 1v2 he was in, people still write their posts like it is an impossibility.

This is how it works.
I spent over an hour watching this lady or fellow WIN against my server and the other enemy server. I know some of the people he beat and they are highly considered good wvw’ers.

So if I have to examine what I witnessed against known good wvw’ers and what an unknown writes on a forum. I think I will go with what I have seen as true.

And that is…… the ranger class can be built to dominate fights.

It’s always good to see Rangers being successful at something but they have to realize, touting about winning in a 1v2, 2v3 or 2v4 situation against a group that probably isn’t spec’d for small group play is not impressive.

We have to face facts, there are roamers in WvW but they are few and far between compared to the zergers. In zerg play, your generally going to have a different build than roaming. A roamer attacking a zerger or a zerger on the way to the group isn’t entirely skillful because you should be winning 100% of the time hands down. That is unless you come across a warrior lol.

Opportunist yes, but skillful.. no. I believe it was already well known that Rangers are good in 1v1 and 1v2 or anything less than a group of 3 if spec’d right. Then again, so is every other class. In zerg play, other classes just plain excel past Rangers.

My main was a Ranger, played them since the beginning and had over 35K kills on WvW with them while barely dying (in full glass). Now I use an Ele because they are just plain better for that type of play.

Prysin.8542:

Jitters.9401:

Tricare.2946:

Rangers are strong when the size of the group they are with or fighting, is 3 or less. The more people that are added after that, the ranger should be replaced with another class that does what you want from the ranger, better.

Also, all good rangers could instantly tell you what build the person was running after a few seconds of fighting. Rangers only have 2 builds that work well and 30 points are always in the same trait line.

This post?

Your first part makes no sense. The ranger is equally as strong in every scenario. That will never change. Another perfect example is the backstab thief. They are always the same strength. The only issue is how they use that strength in zerg fighting.

You will see backstab thieves on the outskirts taking down squishies. Rangers can do their own version of that or just sit and tag as many enemies as possible for loot bags. Either way, their strength does not ever change. I’ve not seen any ranger doing anything but go straight for loot bag acquisition.

why would your average ranger do anything but lootbag acquisition?
Staff eles do it, however they can offer more then just heavy AOE DPS. Staff Guards does it, staff necros does it, grenade/FT engies does it.

Unlike the other professions, rangers can just equip longbow, piercing arrows, 2 stunbreakers, 1 invuln, trait for passive condi removal and an elite giving them half a minute of stability…. it is EZMODE, to roll a tagging build. total ezmode. zero effort maximum profit.

Heyyy thank you thank you. You just defended my post and the post of the fellow who said the ranger class attracts the lazier people in all mmo’s

Why would they? Exactly. They don’t and because they don’t they have no right to say anything negative about the ranger when it comes to WvW. They lost all that right the moment they decided to as little as possible for maximum gain.

Tricare.2946:

Prysin.8542:

Tricare.2946:

Prysin.8542:

2 builds?
yes, that would be true, if it was still july 2013.

Yeah, there are more than 2. However, they are just variations of builds, with the same base set up. There are no good power builds, you will die to all conditions.

been rolling power for months. Many of my builds doesnt even use WS line. Yet, i do not have that many problems with conditions, nor survivability. Infact, i find it ridiculous that when i first do run a build that requires investment in the WS line, the class gets 3 times easier to play.

The only way you are making power work is either:

1. You are facing unskilled players that don’t know what they are doing.
2. You are in a larger group where you don’t die. However, you could be replaced for another class that’s better suited for the job.
3. You’re some how way better than anyone in the game and can play a class with the worst possible build and still win.

The class gets 3x easier because you actually have condition removal then, that sorta works.

A; im in T1 NA. Used to play T3/T4 EU for almost a year.
B; when i played in EU, people knew how to counter rangers. What skills to use, what not to use. They knew how to play against bunker rangers, they knew that “olol (insert a META profession with any build here) will totally wreck that ranger” were not going to happen. Then i move to T1 NA. People i meet, got NO clue how to counter a ranger that uses anything but bows. I see people flee when they cannot down me within 10 seconds. It is pitiful to watch them. When they fail to kill me 1v1, they call in a havoc squad. If i somehow manage to evade/run away from the 1v10 gank, they just take note of my guildtag, and next time i roll out solo i get zergs sent after me. That is how sad T1 NA is.

I see warriors, thieves, medi guards (albeit they are more nasty then the rest), PU mesmers, terror necros and whatnot run around without a clue. You talk about “knowing about pets” well, so far, NA players, be it in EotM, EBG, BGBL or JQBL, i find hardly anyone who knows that when the pet is hitting like your average zerker player, you should kill the pet first. Yet they don’t. They chase me, the player, who runs a full evasion + condition build.

Truth be told, people do not know what a “ranger” is because they believe a ranger = zerker with bow. Anything outside that stereotype freaks people out.

Now, i do not believe myself to be godlike in terms of skill. I die quite a bit, maybe more then your average thief or mesmer, but then again i do not have a quirky mechanic to carry me, instead i have to fight a quirky mechanic to perform.

C; Just because you cannot roll a power build without failing, does not mean others cannot succeed. Your own performance=/=general performance. Players need to learn that. Players also need to learn that when you roll a class, they should always expect ranged damage to be lower, less efficient and more dangerous then melee. Because that is how this game works, for all classes.

Jitters.9401:

Prysin.8542:

Jitters.9401:

Tricare.2946:

Rangers are strong when the size of the group they are with or fighting, is 3 or less. The more people that are added after that, the ranger should be replaced with another class that does what you want from the ranger, better.

Also, all good rangers could instantly tell you what build the person was running after a few seconds of fighting. Rangers only have 2 builds that work well and 30 points are always in the same trait line.

This post?

Your first part makes no sense. The ranger is equally as strong in every scenario. That will never change. Another perfect example is the backstab thief. They are always the same strength. The only issue is how they use that strength in zerg fighting.

You will see backstab thieves on the outskirts taking down squishies. Rangers can do their own version of that or just sit and tag as many enemies as possible for loot bags. Either way, their strength does not ever change. I’ve not seen any ranger doing anything but go straight for loot bag acquisition.

why would your average ranger do anything but lootbag acquisition?
Staff eles do it, however they can offer more then just heavy AOE DPS. Staff Guards does it, staff necros does it, grenade/FT engies does it.

Unlike the other professions, rangers can just equip longbow, piercing arrows, 2 stunbreakers, 1 invuln, trait for passive condi removal and an elite giving them half a minute of stability…. it is EZMODE, to roll a tagging build. total ezmode. zero effort maximum profit.

Heyyy thank you thank you. You just defended my post and the post of the fellow who said the ranger class attracts the lazier people in all mmo’s

Why would they? Exactly. They don’t and because they don’t they have no right to say anything negative about the ranger when it comes to WvW. They lost all that right the moment they decided to as little as possible for maximum gain.

Rangers attract people for the wrong reasons. These people then again play the profession in the wrong way because the profession is incorrectly represented as a pureblood ranged profession. Yet GW2 is heavily favoring melee over ranged, so ranged builds, across the board, performs poorly. Yet the ranger is able to do the highest sustained ranged damage, therefore looking at the numbers produced by a LB power build, you get the feeling you perform pretty good, even though you are actually doing quite bad compared to what you could have been doing.

Prysin.8542:

A; im in T1 NA. Used to play T3/T4 EU for almost a year.
B; when i played in EU, people knew how to counter rangers. What skills to use, what not to use. They knew how to play against bunker rangers, they knew that “olol (insert a META profession with any build here) will totally wreck that ranger” were not going to happen. Then i move to T1 NA. People i meet, got NO clue how to counter a ranger that uses anything but bows. I see people flee when they cannot down me within 10 seconds. It is pitiful to watch them. When they fail to kill me 1v1, they call in a havoc squad. If i somehow manage to evade/run away from the 1v10 gank, they just take note of my guildtag, and next time i roll out solo i get zergs sent after me. That is how sad T1 NA is.

I see warriors, thieves, medi guards (albeit they are more nasty then the rest), PU mesmers, terror necros and whatnot run around without a clue. You talk about “knowing about pets” well, so far, NA players, be it in EotM, EBG, BGBL or JQBL, i find hardly anyone who knows that when the pet is hitting like your average zerker player, you should kill the pet first. Yet they don’t. They chase me, the player, who runs a full evasion + condition build.

Truth be told, people do not know what a “ranger” is because they believe a ranger = zerker with bow. Anything outside that stereotype freaks people out.

Now, i do not believe myself to be godlike in terms of skill. I die quite a bit, maybe more then your average thief or mesmer, but then again i do not have a quirky mechanic to carry me, instead i have to fight a quirky mechanic to perform.

C; Just because you cannot roll a power build without failing, does not mean others cannot succeed. Your own performance=/=general performance. Players need to learn that. Players also need to learn that when you roll a class, they should always expect ranged damage to be lower, less efficient and more dangerous then melee. Because that is how this game works, for all classes.

What tier you play on doesn’t really matter. IMO T1 servers have horrible small scale skills. I’m on Maguuma, back in gold league I laughed at the roam… no, people running to their zergs. They were easy to kill.

Also, you proved my point by saying they call a havoc squad to come kill you. You’re making a horrible build work because you are facing horrible players.

I never said if I can’t do it, no one can. I also never said I couldn’t make it work. It’s just not viable. If you’re going to play power, pick a different class, almost any of them can do it better than ranger.

People cry that ranger is weak just like people cry that thieves are OP. A lot of those people just don’t understand the mechanics and haven’t looked around at different builds. Now the point that a lot of the above posts are going for is that yes, rangers a solid in small group settings. I run the same melee build on my ranger as a lot of other roamers do, no dispute there. However, when it comes to larger groups or zerg fighting, if you hope to contribute any to your team on top of tagging enemies, every other class can do things better. Need a water field? Ele’s produce 10x better fields and more frequently than healing spring. And all that stability you were talking about? It only works on yourself, and if you think you’re gonna run through and tank the damage that the stability is used for, you’re in for a surprise when you down halfway through. And don’t even get me started on pets in group fights, drop a meteor shower on it’s head and it’s game over. The way rangers are currently designed, they are built selfishly and for small groups. Do I agree with that decision? No, but rather than stick with ranger as my main and cry all the time, I rolled other classes for group fights.

We see this post over and over so here’s the TL;DR:
Groups consisting of less than 3 players: ranger is more than capable
Helpful for larger group synergy: roll something else

DeadlySynz.3471:

It’s always good to see Rangers being successful at something but they have to realize, touting about winning in a 1v2, 2v3 or 2v4 situation against a group that probably isn’t spec’d for small group play is not impressive.

We have to face facts, there are roamers in WvW but they are few and far between compared to the zergers. In zerg play, your generally going to have a different build than roaming. A roamer attacking a zerger or a zerger on the way to the group isn’t entirely skillful because you should be winning 100% of the time hands down. That is unless you come across a warrior lol.

Opportunist yes, but skillful.. no. I believe it was already well known that Rangers are good in 1v1 and 1v2 or anything less than a group of 3 if spec’d right. Then again, so is every other class. In zerg play, other classes just plain excel past Rangers.

My main was a Ranger, played them since the beginning and had over 35K kills on WvW with them while barely dying (in full glass). Now I use an Ele because they are just plain better for that type of play.

Laughable and so very wrong.

A lot of the solo kills or double kills I have are because they came after me. Who in their right minds will go out of their way to attack a thief unless they expect to win? None unless they like to lose fights. These people do not just go away if I am not in WvW. They are also attacking people like the solo ranger I was talking about.

Couple other facts.

Almost every thief you see in wvw is in a roaming build.
You see a ton of D/D ele’s, even in zergs. They use roaming builds.
I’ve seen a good number of roaming engineers in highly effective roaming builds. My engi roaming build is just as awesome for zerg fighting. I’m actually going to log him in and play some WvW when I finish here.
A good number of necros these days are in roaming builds. I should know. I’m a thief and they go out of their way to attack me.
Any 2 man group with a thief or d/d ele you see running to a zerg has 1/2 half of their party in a roaming build guaranteed.

If you did not get my point, it is that there are a lot more people spec’d for roaming then you would like to admit.

Tricare.2946:

I never said if I can’t do it, no one can. I also never said I couldn’t make it work. It’s just not viable. If you’re going to play power, pick a different class, almost any of them can do it better than ranger.

That line shows how ignorant you seem to be of the ranger profession. However, i will give you a chance to explain what the others do better, in what way, and why power builds are “not viable”.

Because outside of stability sharing, aegis sharing, veil/portal spamming we can do everything the others can, and in many cases, even way way better.

The Ranger class must be played twice as skillfully to be half as effective. There are fantastic players making the Ranger seem tough in some rare fights. The problem is that it requires an exceptional player just to be considered “good” on one.

They suck at condi-removal leaving them in a tough spot in the current dueling and roaming fights. They have far less effective group support which makes them somewhat unwelcome in large scale fighting. In skirmish they need more support than they give. Not a Ranger player problem but a class design issue. There used to be a couple strong Ranger builds but those got nerfed hard.

DaMikenatr.7041:

People cry that ranger is weak just like people cry that thieves are OP. A lot of those people just don’t understand the mechanics and haven’t looked around at different builds. Now the point that a lot of the above posts are going for is that yes, rangers a solid in small group settings. I run the same melee build on my ranger as a lot of other roamers do, no dispute there. However, when it comes to larger groups or zerg fighting, if you hope to contribute any to your team on top of tagging enemies, every other class can do things better. Need a water field? Ele’s produce 10x better fields and more frequently than healing spring. And all that stability you were talking about? It only works on yourself, and if you think you’re gonna run through and tank the damage that the stability is used for, you’re in for a surprise when you down halfway through. And don’t even get me started on pets in group fights, drop a meteor shower on it’s head and it’s game over. The way rangers are currently designed, they are built selfishly and for small groups. Do I agree with that decision? No, but rather than stick with ranger as my main and cry all the time, I rolled other classes for group fights.

We see this post over and over so here’s the TL;DR:
Groups consisting of less than 3 players: ranger is more than capable
Helpful for larger group synergy: roll something else

The thief does the exact same thing solo or in a zerg.
The ranger does the exact same thing whether solo or in a zerg.
3 Differences Between us:

1. difference is perception. I no have perception that when fighting, that how I play my thief is of much less use in a zerg fight. We are still going to affect the same amount of people in the same way. That will not be changed.

1. Difference is because I accept how a thief plays, and the fact I chose it as a main, I will not complain about it’s singular play style and how every class is better in a zerg fight. So I kill one person… .That person is no longer supporting the enemy. I kill a second person, and that person is no longer supporting the enemy. That’s how a thief and and ranger should work.

1. I understand that a single kill or removal of a single person in an enemy zerg can work to dismantle the whole enemy zerg. That seemingly small victory is in fact a large part of the whole victory. Look at the big picture not just the small one in front of you at that second.

Prysin.8542:

Tricare.2946:

I never said if I can’t do it, no one can. I also never said I couldn’t make it work. It’s just not viable. If you’re going to play power, pick a different class, almost any of them can do it better than ranger.

That line shows how ignorant you seem to be of the ranger profession. However, i will give you a chance to explain what the others do better, in what way, and why power builds are “not viable”.

Because outside of stability sharing, aegis sharing, veil/portal spamming we can do everything the others can, and in many cases, even way way better.

Mesmer: can go full zerker without having to worry about much because they have skills that are useful. Blink, Decoy, Veil, Mass Invis.

Theif: Can go full zerker (do I have to say much more?) Shadow Refuge is a joke of a skill.

Warrior: Can go full zerker, has awesome stances to ignore damage and conditions while also having nice health regen. Banner res.. yay!

Necromancer: Has aoe dps that’s better than ranger, with more survivability. Also, they can go Lich Form for lulz.

The list goes on.

Rangers going power lose out on their condition removal. Go ahead and say they have their healing spring or the bear.. lol. Healing Spring requires you to stand in one spot…. have fun doing that when you have 2-3 poeple on you. The bear? Because, we all know pets work so well.

Small scale roaming is dominated by conditions. When I roam with a necromancer, we target rangers first if we can tell they are power, they are some of the best epidemic targets.

Jitters.9401:

The thief does the exact same thing solo or in a zerg.
The ranger does the exact same thing whether solo or in a zerg.
3 Differences Between us:

1. difference is perception. I no have perception that when fighting, that how I play my thief is of much less use in a zerg fight. We are still going to affect the same amount of people in the same way. That will not be changed.

1. Difference is because I accept how a thief plays, and the fact I chose it as a main, I will not complain about it’s singular play style and how every class is better in a zerg fight. So I kill one person… .That person is no longer supporting the enemy. I kill a second person, and that person is no longer supporting the enemy. That’s how a thief and and ranger should work.

1. I understand that a single kill or removal of a single person in an enemy zerg can work to dismantle the whole enemy zerg. That seemingly small victory is in fact a large part of the whole victory. Look at the big picture not just the small one in front of you at that second.

Lol you keep comparing Ranger to Thief. They are two completely different classes. Yes a thief is awesome at picking people off on the edge of zergs… they have stealth.

The build you are saying is so godlike couldn’t do that. It is a condition build that requires set-up and you have to hope that the zerg/group the person you are picking off doesn’t have condition removal. There are a lot more reason why rangers can pick people off the edge of a zerg.

Jitters.9401:

Aioros.4862:

There is no speccing for blob as a ranger, that is the point.
That ranger has 1 or 2 good builds for spvp and roaming we already knew, you didn’t strike gold.
Too bad WvW is not about roaming.

Made me laugh.

You did read I play a thief right? How many builds do you think a thief has to choose from? A backstab thief plays the same build roaming/havoking/blobbing. A condition thief does the same.

The only difference I use if I am in a blob, is I will use caltrops and dagger storm for keep defense. You shadow refuge inside the keep. roll out the doors, drop caltrops on the rams or a group behind the rams (depending how they are attacking), then start to dagger storm so they do not realize their are caltrops are bleeding them. They stay in the circle trying to kill the solo thief, and their health levels plummet. Lots of fun to do right before your back up squad attacks.

Laugh all you want. In all your ramble about how your class sucks in a blob too, you did nothing but agree with me. That doesn’t make ranger’s case any better and this thread was about rangers, was it not?

On another note, i have a question for people who still play ranger, do most ranger aoes still only hit 3 targets or has it been fixed?

Tricare.2946:

Prysin.8542:

Tricare.2946:

I never said if I can’t do it, no one can. I also never said I couldn’t make it work. It’s just not viable. If you’re going to play power, pick a different class, almost any of them can do it better than ranger.

That line shows how ignorant you seem to be of the ranger profession. However, i will give you a chance to explain what the others do better, in what way, and why power builds are “not viable”.

Because outside of stability sharing, aegis sharing, veil/portal spamming we can do everything the others can, and in many cases, even way way better.

Mesmer: can go full zerker without having to worry about much because they have skills that are useful. Blink, Decoy, Veil, Mass Invis.

Theif: Can go full zerker (do I have to say much more?) Shadow Refuge is a joke of a skill.

Warrior: Can go full zerker, has awesome stances to ignore damage and conditions while also having nice health regen. Banner res.. yay!

Necromancer: Has aoe dps that’s better than ranger, with more survivability. Also, they can go Lich Form for lulz.

The list goes on.

Rangers going power lose out on their condition removal. Go ahead and say they have their healing spring or the bear.. lol. Healing Spring requires you to stand in one spot…. have fun doing that when you have 2-3 poeple on you. The bear? Because, we all know pets work so well.

Small scale roaming is dominated by conditions. When I roam with a necromancer, we target rangers first if we can tell they are power, they are some of the best epidemic targets.

Shadow Refuge is just like healing spring. Just dump some AOE into it and the thief gotta run or die. That is how you counter “a joke of a skill”. The same way you counter healing spring. Who would have thought that?

What can power rangers offer?
Depends on the power build….

Clerics is certainly a power build, because it offers no condi damage. Clerics tank, with shouts and you can apply 330 HP/second + condition removal and swiftness to a 5 man group, on a 12 second timer. “zomg you noob, warrior healing signet heals for more”. yes, but you can apply your regen ONTOP of healing signet. Taking the “OP warrior” from OP to godmode. However if the ranger slots Signet of the Wild, it will get 330hp/s + 160hp/s bringing it in line/slightly higher then a warrior with equal clerics setup and healing power (check a build editor if you doubt me. The numbers dont lie aslong as both run the same healing power).
Weapons to use; Primary – Sword + warhorn or sword + axe, secondary – longbow or shortbow or greatsword

Celestial allows you to spec fully into DPS, yet with merely 20 points into wilderness survival to reduce offhand cooldowns, you can pretty much be as tanky as any condi-bunker. Weapons to use; Primary – Sword+Axe, secondary – longbow or greatsword

Full zerker can kite a necro to death, because the necro cannot get close or run away if you play the zerker properly. Marks/Wells are easy to dodge, their like a big red circle screaming “THERE IS PAIN TO GET INSIDE HERE”. All you do is stay away from them.
Weapons to use; Primary – Sword + axe or greatsword, secondary – longbow or shortbow

Cavaliers + Knights allow you to zergsurf without dieing, you got 40 or so seconds of stability at hand, AOE immob, AOE cripple, invulnerability, crit chance buff for party.
If you run lemongrass + melandru (like most people do in zergs) then conditions does not hurt much at all. If you run a bear in addition to this, conditions become a joke. If you decide to spec deep into WS to get (a really bad trait) empathic bond, then you can roll over any condi build you want, any problem you may get is soft CC slowing you down for a quick moment before you roll over your enemy (untill they patch the bugged EB trait).
Weapons to use; Primary – Greatsword, secondary – longbow or sword + warhorn or sword + axe or axe + warhorn.

Except the clerics tank, all of these builds can slot sigil of purity or generosity to further help remove or “return” conditions.

However the red line in all of these builds are that YOU SHOULD NOT RUN RANGED WEAPONS AS PRIMARY WEAPON. Ranged weapons are very good secondary options, but they should not be your main source of DPS, ever. However until people get that, until they learn that, power builds will in 99% of cases be “not viable”.

In small fights, the pet is a decent distraction if not much, it still does something. But you’re still at the mercy of the AI. Rangers actually have a number of decent single target damage skills and immobilizes to make them a threat. The ranger sword is one of the most balanced weapons around and to me is one of the ranger things that isn’t completely kitten. Well, shortbow and GS are alright too

However, once we have a few people or more…

-No good AOE options unless you consider that pitiful root on barrage to be something.
-Situational Stunbreaks
-Bad Stability Options
-Traits are scattered— There’s 3 traits for longbow to make it suck less; Signets 2-3
-The class being kitten is a result of an AI dependent mechanic. There’s also a host of survival options, including the only decent condition removal besides your friggin heal that is pet dependent.
-Garbage Condition Removal aside from HS.

You have a class that pretty much lacks everything that is required for large scale play to the point when it’s arguable that when the class was designed, that they didn’t test the ranger outside of a solo environment.

Outside of it though, pets cannot survive constant pressure, and thus a chunk of your damage and survival potential is immediately taken away. And thus the only way to acquire these things is to be carried by people that do have these things. If you’re able to go in with a sword and come out without reliable condition removal and dubious stability unless you go full out traiting signets and give little support then be my guest.

This doesn’t mean that you couldn’t overcome these problems by playing better. But I would definitely say this class design is fundamentally flawed and needs severe tweaks. If you make a class so heavily focused around a broken, AI dependent mechanic, how can you forsee anything besides failure? The fact that this class has actually seen nerfs to it, does not bode well at all.

Aioros.4862:

On another note, i have a question for people who still play ranger, do most ranger aoes still only hit 3 targets or has it been fixed?

Only Muddy Terrain and entangle was limited to 3 (some speculate traps too, but that was never confirmed to be limited to 3 since they are pulsing fields). These two utilities was bumped up to 5 many months ago.

Cleave attacks hits 3 targets, just like anyone else’s cleave attacks.

Bounce attacks hit 3 targets, just like anyone else’s bounce attacks

Piercing attacks hit everyone in a line (unconfirmed 5 targets max)

AOE hits 5 targets

Pulsing fields 5/pulse

Shouts/howls – 5

Spirit buffs – 5

Healing spring – 5/pulse

healing aura from elite spirit – unconfirmed, i have counted 7 in PvE during recent LS.

Prysin.8542:

That’s great and all but you give up so much damage for survivability while every other class can go pretty much full zerker and have just as much survivability.

Prysin.8542:

Aioros.4862:

On another note, i have a question for people who still play ranger, do most ranger aoes still only hit 3 targets or has it been fixed?

Only Muddy Terrain and entangle was limited to 3 (some speculate traps too, but that was never confirmed to be limited to 3 since they are pulsing fields). These two utilities was bumped up to 5 many months ago.

Cleave attacks hits 3 targets, just like anyone else’s cleave attacks.

Bounce attacks hit 3 targets, just like anyone else’s bounce attacks

Piercing attacks hit everyone in a line (unconfirmed 5 targets max)

AOE hits 5 targets

Pulsing fields 5/pulse

Shouts/howls – 5

Spirit buffs – 5

Healing spring – 5/pulse

healing aura from elite spirit – unconfirmed, i have counted 7 in PvE during recent LS.

Thank you.

sword/torch axe/horn? cause that’s what I use to roam. unfortunately these days I need fat loot bags to make all the ascended so I spend more time tossing traps and barrage into the front end of zergs…which isn’t bad fun btw, if you put torment on axe and nullification on the bow you can help pull boons and keep the train tormented as it makes its passes.

Tricare.2946:

Prysin.8542:

That’s great and all but you give up so much damage for survivability while every other class can go pretty much full zerker and have just as much survivability.

may i ask you; Have you ever played a ranger, using anything BUT a bow?
Have you ever looked at the weapons rangers got?
Can you tell me what all my builds have in common?
This leads to my final question – Do you know how to capitalize on some of the most clunky mechanics rangers have?

These questions may seem irrelevant to you, but i can assure you, that behind them is the answer to survivability. However unless you know the profession pretty well, you will not know the result nor effect of these functions. Because it is not apparent when just looking at some build editor (and i have never seen anyone make a video recording of these functions either)

Prysin.8542:

Tricare.2946:

Prysin.8542:

That’s great and all but you give up so much damage for survivability while every other class can go pretty much full zerker and have just as much survivability.

may i ask you; Have you ever played a ranger, using anything BUT a bow?
Have you ever looked at the weapons rangers got?
Can you tell me what all my builds have in common?
This leads to my final question – Do you know how to capitalize on some of the most clunky mechanics rangers have?

These questions may seem irrelevant to you, but i can assure you, that behind them is the answer to survivability. However unless you know the profession pretty well, you will not know the result nor effect of these functions. Because it is not apparent when just looking at some build editor (and i have never seen anyone make a video recording of these functions either)

Just having a friendly discussion about a class. Not each others skills.

You can take a look at my youtube channel if you’d like, I used to post a few ranger videos. No bows in any of them.

Ranger does ok at 1v1 and pretty poorly at zerging. You dont see many roamers with rangers because it is so much easier as a mesmer/thief/warrior.

People like to take the easiest road. That is all.

The Ranger is easily the worst class in WvW by quite a considerable margin. It has a condi build and that’s about the end of its value to GW2. As the number of players goes up, the value of the class goes down at an exponential level until you’re about at the 5+ range where there isn’t a single thing the class provides that can’t be obtained elsewhere.

The idea that the Ranger some how soaked up all of the terrible players is asinine. Just like the idea that a class’ worth is measured by the simple fact that it’s the last man standing in a zerg even though it provided absolutely nothing other than a static water field, an AE immob that was removed instantly on a 2min cooldown, etc.

If your goal is to play the Ranger class with a bow, please look elsewhere. If you plan to play condi roaming, and you’re cool with being inferior to warriors, engis, and necros at the same game, go for it.

The ranger is an amazingly strong roaming class. Condis + a pet will do that. Please don’t try to oversell the class though. We have a 70 page CDI thread, which the class won by nearly 2:1 odds over Ele’s to point out what state the class is in.

Eh, I’ve fought against such rangers. It’s not that they’re easy to beat, it’s that they’re easy to pressure. Whilst my Scepter/Dagger ele can’t do much against these rangers, my Dagger/Dagger can burst them down pretty quickly so even with perma regen, they have to back away, which lets me heal up faster.

Good rangers exist, they’re just few and far inbetween, and they still are easy loot bags for good players on other roaming classes like engi, mesmer and thieves.

Atherakhia.4086:

I really dislike rangers in WvW and will continue to do so

I shortened your quote for you so it is easier for others to understand what you meant.

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

I really dislike rangers in WvW and will continue to do so

I shortened your quote for you so it is easier for others to understand what you meant.

Prysin, you’re so out of touch with reality it isn’t even funny anymore. You are here spouting how great your builds are when we all know full well all you do is outlive everyone because you spam greatsword with the melee train all while providing the group absolutely nothing but an ablative wound to soak AE so hopefully you’re stunned instead of some other class that can actually provide something meaningful to the group.

Like I’ve told you numerous times before… no one’s buying what you’re selling. You make the class sound like it’s a winning lottery ticket but everyone knows that’s not the case.

Atherakhia.4086:

snip

I play what i want, i play how i want, i play when and where i want aaaaaaand, wait for it……….. you do the exact same thing.

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

snip

I play what i want, i play how i want, i play when and where i want aaaaaaand, wait for it……….. you do the exact same thing.

As we both should. And I’m happy you actually enjoy it. But you’re still as ineffective as any other Ranger.

Atherakhia.4086:

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

snip

I play what i want, i play how i want, i play when and where i want aaaaaaand, wait for it……….. you do the exact same thing.

As we both should. And I’m happy you actually enjoy it. But you’re still as ineffective as any other Ranger.

may i suggest you for once may be wrong? Or maybe your infinite wisdom can finally shed light on something my ranger cannot provide that is not positive.

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

snip

I play what i want, i play how i want, i play when and where i want aaaaaaand, wait for it……….. you do the exact same thing.

As we both should. And I’m happy you actually enjoy it. But you’re still as ineffective as any other Ranger.

may i suggest you for once may be wrong? Or maybe your infinite wisdom can finally shed light on something my ranger cannot provide that is not positive.

I could be wrong. 99% of the WvW community isn’t though. Rangers are easily the most ineffective class in WvW.