Guild Wars 2

Atherakhia.4086:

I could be wrong. 99% of the WvW community isn’t though. Rangers are easily the most ineffective class in WvW.

You are feeding a Ranger troll. Despite what almost every other player sees and experiences in WvW, a handful of forum Ranger warriors keep plugging the class. Even the poll on which class ANet should revamp next was overwhelmingly Ranger… by a mile.

Prysin.8542:

may i suggest you for once may be wrong? Or maybe your infinite wisdom can finally shed light on something my ranger cannot provide that is not positive.

The post that preceded the Ranger CDI, where people voted Ranger as the worst class in this game, by a large margin, kind of indicates you are the wrong one.

sminkiottone.6972:

Not sure if trolling or what…

mesmer, thief and engi are better roamers, guardian and warrior are better in zerging, ele/necro are better at support.

ranger excels in nothing

Rangers excel at hurting you from a distance, applying conditions and healing via regeneration. I run a mostly apothecary build for my ranger and i can outlast most opponents in 1 v 1. With sigil of energy, and being properly traited, you can keep almost protection and regen. That being said, i hardly ever play my ranger in wvw because I hate roaming and prefer to bring so much more to the table with my unkillable, chain-stunning, fear/stomping you off a cliff, shout healer warrior.

Do people ever get tired of making the same topics over and over again?

Quick summary

- Rangers can excel at roaming and some do, step 1 is to not be a bearbow (coming from a former legendary bearbow, aka Kudzu and Dreamer).
- Rangers can be decent in small group play
- Rangers mostly suck at zerg play

Rangers have pretty much been really good at 1v1’s for a very long time

See my Youtube videos for examples of me just crushing people.

But anything past 1v1 and the ranger becomes rather mediocre in comparison to other classes.

Zerging it is honestly the worst class, I have far more success and fun zerging on for example my Thief, which countless people think suck at zerging (I disagree)

Anyway, Rangers good 1v1 class, not great at anything else.

Jitters.9401:

What I find Super Super Super funny is that after I started this post about a Ranger who was beating person after person 1v1 and winning almost ever 1v2 he was in, people still write their posts like it is an impossibility.

This is how it works.
I spent over an hour watching this lady or fellow WIN against my server and the other enemy server. I know some of the people he beat and they are highly considered good wvw’ers.

So if I have to examine what I witnessed against known good wvw’ers and what an unknown writes on a forum. I think I will go with what I have seen as true.

And that is…… the ranger class can be built to dominate fights.

Man, I personally won a lot of fights 1vsX with my ranger, my best fight was 1vs3 and still won stomping them all.

The thing most people here are tring to say is that he probably beat unskilled people and he was a good ranger, a bunker regen ranger in melee ( lost of evades, leaps, crazy regen, good damage with condis )will probably destroy most people 1vsX while roaming just because most people are noobs/with zerg builds.

Try it out in OS against thiefs/condi burst necros/ PU mesmers /hambow warriors and you will see that you need twice as much skill to beat them.

I think Rangers excel at shooting people from a long distance. Longbow Rangers are great for shooting cowards that try to run away! Hahahaha!

Rangers are good 1vs1. They don’t zerg well. Pets suck in zergs and Rangers are balanced for pets.

I have some of the same issues with my Mesmer and phantasms. At least stealth works against a whole zerg.

I’m yet to meet those good for 1v1 rangers. 17 months into this game and I’ve been beaten by one ranger, once. every other class in this game does 1v1 better than a ranger.

sure, there’s rangers who do well with their class, but they’d surely do better with something else.

Atherakhia.4086:

I could be wrong. 99% of the WvW community isn’t though. Rangers are easily the most ineffective class in WvW.

Ok, let us get something straight here; the WvW community on these forums and the GvG community ingame are the primary “haters” when it comes to rangers. I will not dispute that. Your average pug is then influenced by these people because these people are generally the same people who is part of large guilds. Guilds have presence and influence no matter where they are and whether or not they like something does “infect” other peoples opinion.

The GvG community dislikes rangers, not directly because they offer “nothing” but because everyone dislikes rangers at this point, and everyone focuses rangers first. Therefore the ranger will probably die in an organized GvG before it even can deliver. If people hated warriors as much as rangers and focused warriors first, then they would be the “most useless class” because they wouldnt be able to “do their thing”.
I understand why the guilds does this, i target other rangers myself because i know how easy it is to beat most builds.

However this together with the fact that it has become a habit to mock rangers, regardless of their position in guilds or their achievements has lead to were we are today. Nobody want to deal with the profession, and when people do, everyone else just demand things the profession simply are not designed to provide and use that as an excuse to call them useless.

I can do that too with rangers… I demand that your necromancer apply AOE immob. “say what? necros cannot apply AOE immob? They’re worthless then”
I demand that your ele get 3.5k armor, 20k HP, 3k damage, 45% crit chance, 70%+ crit damage, AOE immob and 40 seconds of stability… “What? you say ele cannot get those stats in one build? Disgusting, they are absolutely useless then”
I demand that your warrior gives us waterfields, fire fields, poison fields, ice fields, etheral fields. Oh and i want group protection too.
“warriors does not have access to those? Rubbish, worthless, warriors got no group support then”

That is how the community has been acting towards rangers. They look at 2-3 aspects of the profession, disregard everything else and decides that since they cannot apply stability, aegis, portals, veils, boon strip or 10k meteorshowers they must have nothing else going for them at all. Impossible.
Especially since they cannot do all these things at the same time while having a 4k damage, 50% crit chance, 4k armor, 30k HP, 100% crit damage 30/30/30/30/30 build like your average warrior does.
It is the community that stubbornly refuses to look at other solutions then what they got. They do not care what others can do if they cannot do everything the current meta professions can do, with one build.

Oh great, someone finally got their head out of the gutters and realize Rangers are a decent skirmish class.

Too bad that doesn’t redeem the fact that we lack group utility, viable power options, and have the most handicapped profession mechanic in large encounters.

Maskaganda.2043:

sure, there’s rangers who do well with their class, but they’d surely do better with something else.

There is no guarantee for that.
Using myself as an example; I can play ranger fairly ok. I am not godlike in duels or zergs or anything, but i can play it well enough to stay alive and provide whatever my build is designed to provide.
I also got an ele, which i find easy to play, mostly because i am used to being a squishy ranger that gets focused first. Ele is ezmode for me, but not fun at all. Sure the meteorshowers and occasionally kicking some warriors rear end with the conjured hammer is amusing, but it is not fun. Therefore i do not play it as much as many may claim i should.
I got a engi, i cannot play it at all, i struggle with PvE and i cannot even wrap my head around the WvW play of that prof. I simply cannot play it, because the way i like to play (light footed evasive melee with ranged option) is not really an integral part of engi play. The closest i got to such build was a wrench+rifle combo. And it worked untill i hit level 25.
I got a guardian, which is so mindless that i lost all motivation to play it beyond level 35.
I got a mesmer, and the only thing i manage to do with it is spam portals and veils. When i try to use it for anything else, be it PvP, WvW or PvE, i cannot do it. I die, i fail.

The profession you succeed with largely depend on your way of playing. Your individual and personal playstyle. That playstyle is a combination of mentality, reaction time, personal preferences and personal taste. You cannot acquire a playstyle from merely looking at a video. You can learn to mimic the way someone moves or their skill rotations, but you cannot learn their mindset, copy their reaction time, their brains ability to process large chunks of information or their ability to interpret a situation. Without the ability to copy all of these things perfectly, you cannot blatantly say “you will perform better with another profession”. You will not. You will perform for sure, but whether or not you will be better depends on you. Unless the profession is so insanely OP that nothing can counter it.

DiamondMeteor.8345:

Oh great, someone finally got their head out of the gutters and realize Rangers are a decent skirmish class.

Too bad that doesn’t redeem the fact that we lack group utility, viable power options, and have the most handicapped profession mechanic in large encounters.

IMO
Ranger is a great skirmisher/bunker in pvp, but thats it, in WvW in the open field there are better/easier classes for roaming, like thief/mesmer/engi.

In big fights ranger provide nothing more than other classes can do better:

Might : Guardian and Ele (ranger is good only with non zerg weapons)
Swiftness : Guardian and Ele
Stability : Guardian and Ele
Retaliation : Guardian and Mesmer
Water fields : Ele (ranger has a good water field but its on a 30 sec cooldown)
Portals : Mesmer
CC : Warrior and Guardian
AoE : Necro and Ele (ranger has only barrage on 24s if traited)

the only good thing ranger has is the immobilize.

Then there’s the ability to deal damage and stay alive, ranger deals very low damage compared to warrior/guardian/necro, it’s way squishier than warrior/guardian/necro.

Almost forgot, ranger can be used as stomping/ressing machine

sminkiottone.6972:

DiamondMeteor.8345:

Oh great, someone finally got their head out of the gutters and realize Rangers are a decent skirmish class.

Too bad that doesn’t redeem the fact that we lack group utility, viable power options, and have the most handicapped profession mechanic in large encounters.

IMO
Ranger is a great skirmisher/bunker in pvp, but thats it, in WvW in the open field there are better/easier classes for roaming, like thief/mesmer/engi.

In big fights ranger provide nothing more than other classes can do better:

Might : Guardian and Ele (ranger is good only with non zerg weapons)
Swiftness : Guardian and Ele
Stability : Guardian and Ele
Retaliation : Guardian and Mesmer
Water fields : Ele (ranger has a good water field but its on a 30 sec cooldown)
CC : Warrior and Guardian
AoE : Necro and Ele

the only good thing ranger has is the immobilize.

Then there’s the ability to deal damage and stay alive, ranger deals very low damage compared to warrior/guardian/necro, it’s way squishier than warrior/guardian/necro.

Almost forgot, ranger can be used as stomping/ressing machine

You just proved what i wrote a few posts above; single out a few things, focus on those, then disregard the rest;
Fact from a ele player – unless you run Aquamancer’s Alacrity, which most eles doesnt since Cleansing wave is like a million times better, then eles is in no better spot then rangers on waterfield.
Geyser is nice, but if your zerg has even the slightest of tail, or the group isnt tight enough, you wont get a chance to fire off a second blast on it due to lack of duration. The direct heal is also worse then that of healing spring. Healing showers (?), the Water Staff 5, is on a 45 sec CD, 36.5 if traited. The size and duration is good, but regeneration, even in full clerics, is not even 1/3rd of that of healing spring with the same build (both ele and ranger can run clerics in zerg and perform really well).
A fact people forget about ele is that unless you STAY in water attunement 24/7, which is horrible in terms of group support, you can add another 9-13 seconds duration to those skill CD’s due to attunement swap CD.
Healing spring is 30 seconds no matter what.
They are both great, and while healing spring calls for more up-front playing on the rangers side, the ele’s ability to gt the staff skills allows it to stay on the backline. However the ranger IS infact better equipped to handle the frontlines due to higher armor and HP stats by default.
Ele does have some other amazing utilities on the staff, but so does ranger if you bother to look into it.

CC is a special one;
Tactical CC – GT AOE, ranger is far superior with hard CC on muddy terrain, entangle, pets, traps and soft CC from barrage, pets, traps and spirits.
For highest uptime during battle – warrior and guard is better.
It comes down to whether you prefer to stop and “contain” the enemy frontline for a head on assault, or if you want to deal with them as you go. Both does have it’s uses, warrior and guard does require more players to perform same amount of AOE CC effect (fact).

AoE;
Zerg long range – Necro and ele is far far better then rangers here. Even grenade engineer is better due to the spammability of grenades, although retal hurts.
Zerg Dynamic short range – I recently discovered that especially fire and poison trap is incredibly strong in zergs, however the lack of range (600) makes them hard to use. With a Dire or Carrion+Rabid setup you can generally apply 900+ hp/s burn and poison damage. At the same time, you will do incredibly high damage from barrage since the traps is in skirmishing line (Prec + crit damage). Spike trap applies immob when traited in addition to cripple. Giving you some hard CC too.
Roaming – AoE matters little in roaming, and the dynamic play of traps (does not require long channeling time or long cooldowns like necro and ele suffer from) make them far superior in this situation.

Might;
Ranger can join this section with two roles;
Fire field applier
or
Fire Field Blaster (applies +1 stack from WH in addition to the blast)

Ranger performs just slightly better then warrior here as it can do both, although i would argue that would hurt your performance even if you just swap in torch/WH for a quick field drop/blast.

Now, we can add another “bracket” which is “Protection”. In which rangers are just below Guards and necros (spectral wall is great for protection spread as it is a unlimited line). Eles lose out due to uptime on their group. Ele can aquire 6 seconds prot every 9 seconds, however that requires the ele to put fire/water/air on cooldown every 9-13 seconds to get a 6 second buff for the party. With a staff build, this would reduce the eles general performance quite a bit as earth offer little in a zerg setting that fire/water/air doesn’t do way better.

Rangers in a zerg is basically useless, that is not even debatable, its a pure cold hard fact

Frontline ranger? lol guard/warrior is 10x better
AOE? lol necro/ele is 10x better

Zerging is pretty mindless and boring anyways, I prefer to stay away from it….

Rangers however are perfectly fine in a roaming group. they are built for roaming imo…

Why on earth would a ranger join a zerg, I just dont get it… ya you can apply muddy terrain/AOE cripple? whoppity do, that crap is cleansed in a zerg in a matter of milliseconds….entangle.?? are you serious? in a zerg? those roots are destroyed in milliseconds lol you aren’t binding/ccing anyone

Rangers can do some what decent damage in a zerg if you go yolo glass cannon with peircing shot and lineup everything properly… you can pump out some numbers there hitting everything in a line but thats about it….

If i want to zerg in WvW, the last class I would play is ranger…. they provide very little support and literally every other class is better support wise.

Roaming, they are fine IMO, that’s also purely on the individual skill level

Prysin.8542:

Rangers attract people for the wrong reasons. These people then again play the profession in the wrong way because the profession is incorrectly represented as a pureblood ranged profession. Yet GW2 is heavily favoring melee over ranged, so ranged builds, across the board, performs poorly.

I don’t think the desire to play a ranged profession (or, more specifically, an archer) is the wrong reason to want to play a class.

I think the main problem is that (as you point out) GW2 so heavily favors melee over ranged that there is really no good option for a player who wants to play a ranged character. The second problem is that while steady sustained damage (apparently ANet’s vision for the Ranger) is quite viable in PvE fights (including solo-capping camps in WvW), it’s not viable against other players who don’t dutifully let you keep them at range and have movement skills that make it trivially easy for them to immediately be in close range. It’s not that bad being a Ranger in PvE because the targets are predictable and not too smart. All of that goes out the window in WvW.

Are melee Rangers viable? Absolutely. Do I want to play a melee Ranger? No, and that’s the problem I have with this whole dismissal.

The reason why many players may be running around with longbows in WvW is because they want to play ranged fighters and would rather take a hit to their effectiveness than create a melee ranger build. I went through this in the Ranger CDI thread, where the suggestion was essentially to create a trap Ranger that also happens to use a longbow as one of their weapons as a sub-optimal choice.

Years ago, a friend of mine said that he hated when his family got together on the weekend to eat at IHOP (International House of Pancakes). Another friend asked him why, and he said that everything there tasted like pancakes to him. The friend then asked what was wrong with that. His answer? “I don’t like pancakes!”

Now, you can argue that GW2 is like IHOP, but instead of everything tasting like pancakes, everything tastes like melee and if you don’t like melee, you are playing the wrong game. Is that really the message that ANet is trying to send? I’m starting to think so, which is part why I’m seriously considering buying ESO after spending last weekend playing the beta to learn how to like it.

So you observed an exceptional case and took it as the norm to reflect on the current condition of the class???

L2ScientificTheory

Rangers, unless actively trying, have very little in the way of anti-burst. Thieves stealth, Eles mist form and armour of earth, Necroes death shroud, Mesmers stealth, clones up to a point, distortion, etc. Guardians just negate a helluva lot of damage so that they can handle the low health pool, shelter, renewed focus. Engis turn tiny a lot.

Rangers get a 6 second invuln on a 64 sec cd IF they give up 30 trait points and go for reduced cd on signets.

I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure that could use some changing. I don’t understand why everyone’s complaining that Ranger as a class doesn’t need buffs, take the buffs where you can get them, and don’t say ’it’s those bad playars ova ther, dey give us an bad name’.

Ofcourse Rangers are more of a roamer/dueling class but they have a certain viability in WvW. Including longbow builds. However like the above stated. There is not much anti burst for rangers. So if you are going to play a DPS Longbow build you probably will have to take sword/x for the dodges and mobility. Rangers don’t have any real PANIC button. So your survivability relays totally on your positioning and dodging. Does this make ranger kitten? No, It’s just very hard to play.

I dont know to much about roaming. But in bigger groups rangers are meh…

Rangers are a lot of fun in EoTM, as are other ranged classses, as there is a lot more opportunity to use terrain to your advantage than in an open field zerg train infested wvw map. And with so many running melee builds, you can clock up the kills without getting hit at all.

LB and sword/horn is great fun, equip sw/horn when running around in case a roaming thief tries to jump you- it’s hilarious watching them become clueless when you roll around them whilst taking chunks off their hp bar:-)

Atherakhia.4086:

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

snip

I play what i want, i play how i want, i play when and where i want aaaaaaand, wait for it……….. you do the exact same thing.

As we both should. And I’m happy you actually enjoy it. But you’re still as ineffective as any other Ranger.

may i suggest you for once may be wrong? Or maybe your infinite wisdom can finally shed light on something my ranger cannot provide that is not positive.

I could be wrong. 99% of the WvW community isn’t though. Rangers are easily the most ineffective class in WvW.

I respond to this with a quote from Winston Churchil:

“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Adepted for GW2 I want to say, that the mayority of players may not be right about some issues. Also the players writing in the forum and making their opinion public represent not the mayority of players playing the game. Thus, you only know a fraction of WvWer’s opinions through the forum.

I remember back in the day, when every1 said how bad necromancers are and I was beating the hell out of my opponents even 1v3 with a condition build, that was on a pre doom fire patch, before every1 complained about the op-ness of necro conditions.

What I enjoy in this game is one thing:

I am not a really great player. My responses are often slow, my dodges often random or gutt feeling dodges than responsive and my awarness of the battle field is average. Still, by building special builds (I rarely run mainstream builds) I win most of my roaming engagements. This is the matter with my necromancer, with my mesmer and with my (power) ranger.

99% of the players, without wanting to insult anyone, are playing “effective” and the builds that have been “established”. I experiment most of the time, trying new builds and adapting them. If I start out with a maionstream build (with a profession I am unfamiliar with), I quickly adept it to my needs until the build fits my playstyle and not my playstyle fits the build. And I guess that is, what the ranger that was witnessed by the OP was doing. He exploits a niche, that most players are simply not aware of.

SkiTz.4590:

If i want to zerg in WvW, the last class I would play is ranger….

Good, because the negativity shown in your post is part of what causes the widespread hate.

TyPin.9860:

Atherakhia.4086:

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

snip

I play what i want, i play how i want, i play when and where i want aaaaaaand, wait for it……….. you do the exact same thing.

As we both should. And I’m happy you actually enjoy it. But you’re still as ineffective as any other Ranger.

may i suggest you for once may be wrong? Or maybe your infinite wisdom can finally shed light on something my ranger cannot provide that is not positive.

I could be wrong. 99% of the WvW community isn’t though. Rangers are easily the most ineffective class in WvW.

I respond to this with a quote from Winston Churchil:

“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Adepted for GW2 I want to say, that the mayority of players may not be right about some issues. Also the players writing in the forum and making their opinion public represent not the mayority of players playing the game. Thus, you only know a fraction of WvWer’s opinions through the forum.

I remember back in the day, when every1 said how bad necromancers are and I was beating the hell out of my opponents even 1v3 with a condition build, that was on a pre doom fire patch, before every1 complained about the op-ness of necro conditions.

What I enjoy in this game is one thing:

I am not a really great player. My responses are often slow, my dodges often random or gutt feeling dodges than responsive and my awarness of the battle field is average. Still, by building special builds (I rarely run mainstream builds) I win most of my roaming engagements. This is the matter with my necromancer, with my mesmer and with my (power) ranger.

99% of the players, without wanting to insult anyone, are playing “effective” and the builds that have been “established”. I experiment most of the time, trying new builds and adapting them. If I start out with a maionstream build (with a profession I am unfamiliar with), I quickly adept it to my needs until the build fits my playstyle and not my playstyle fits the build. And I guess that is, what the ranger that was witnessed by the OP was doing. He exploits a niche, that most players are simply not aware of.

Condi bunker melee ranger is a very well known build, I have no idea what rock you are living under.. And even still in this story about your necro, you mention 1v3. Please, for the final time, comprehend that people are saying that rangers are good in small group. We’re not all crying “don’t play ranger cause they suck”, we’re just saying that compared to other classes, they could use some things in their favor. And in regards to not having the majority of WvWer’s opinions, this was a poll under Balancing and thus you get sPvP and PvE player’s opinions as well and guess what, ranger was still voted as the class that needs the most love. I don’t understand your point in trying to start a discussion if you discount every valid point. It’s not player hate, it’s a combination of observation and experience. You have a lot of people in this discussion who play this fabled melee build that this player apparently discovered that not many people know (seriously though, this and bear-bow is the ranger meta) and they’re admitting that there is a lot of things that can stand to be improved with the class. Just let it go.

Jitters.9401:

YAh, No.

I had a brutally fun fight with a ranger, and after I won he partied me (I thought it was removed, but he was still able to do it). He was harder to fight then almost every backstab thief I put the beatdown on.

Anyway, we chatted and I watched him destroy person after person solo and beat almost every 1vs2 he was in. It was a blast to watch.

It isn’t the class that is crappy, it is the builds people are using, and probably play style.
If you spec for blob fighting, then you will get buried 100% in a 1v1. How can you expect anything else?

I have to say that it’s unusual for a Ranger to win.

Before you or anyone else jumps down my throat, let me tell you why and the reason can’t be argued…

Rangers, of all the classes – SEEMS kitten – but if people would literally teach others how to play properly – not cookie cutter but what works right now to kill 1v1 if NOTHING else – then we will see Rangers being happier about their state.

As it is, there are maybe two meta builds that “can” do what you are saying but not many of us can do what they are “yet” or ever, depending on our innate play style that has been our way, some of us, for decades. And let me stress again that no one is bothering to teach Rangers anything.

And as many others have noted, we were told that we could “play like we want to” and still do damage – at the very least to be able to win a simple 1v1 without doing a cookie cutter build or 1-2-3 directions like I and many others seem to need from the best Rangers.

Ranger sucks in wvw zergs, get used to it!

The other side of the coin is… you can make yourself useful. No, not while the 30-30 hammerwarriorguardian are fighting. It’s not your game. If the Hammertrain gets you you are as good as dead (like every other profession…)

But rangers are good scouts, very good 1v1-ers and excellent roamers and tacklers (yeah, former EVE player here). If you want to farm lootbags this prof is not that efficient as – say – an ele. You can be very effective… just stay away from the zergs….

…I mean at least 900 range :P

(oh, and pet sucks, the traitlines are a mess blabla. I DO know the prof needs a rework but if somebody wants to enjoy it right now… there are ways to do it… just stay away from zergs again :P)

Love the class, despite its limitations, I could do without the pet though. The pet is usually more trouble than he is worth.

atheria.2837:

Jitters.9401:

YAh, No.

I had a brutally fun fight with a ranger, and after I won he partied me (I thought it was removed, but he was still able to do it). He was harder to fight then almost every backstab thief I put the beatdown on.

Anyway, we chatted and I watched him destroy person after person solo and beat almost every 1vs2 he was in. It was a blast to watch.

It isn’t the class that is crappy, it is the builds people are using, and probably play style.
If you spec for blob fighting, then you will get buried 100% in a 1v1. How can you expect anything else?

I have to say that it’s unusual for a Ranger to win.

Before you or anyone else jumps down my throat, let me tell you why and the reason can’t be argued…

Rangers, of all the classes – SEEMS kitten – but if people would literally teach others how to play properly – not cookie cutter but what works right now to kill 1v1 if NOTHING else – then we will see Rangers being happier about their state.

As it is, there are maybe two meta builds that “can” do what you are saying but not many of us can do what they are “yet” or ever, depending on our innate play style that has been our way, some of us, for decades. And let me stress again that no one is bothering to teach Rangers anything.

And as many others have noted, we were told that we could “play like we want to” and still do damage – at the very least to be able to win a simple 1v1 without doing a cookie cutter build or 1-2-3 directions like I and many others seem to need from the best Rangers.

there is three meta builds for PvP, four for WvW, One for dungeons, and Zerker or go home for standard PvE.

PvP has;
BM Condi Bunker
Spirit Ranger
Trap Ranger

WvW has;
Regen Roamer (Shout regen tank)
BM Bunker
Trap Ranger
Glass Cannon LB Sniper

Dungeon has;
Spotter + Frost spirit w/ Sword + Warhorn.

EDIT;
i am not sure what you mean by cookie cutter in this case. Like Hammer warrior or DD thief just going 111111111112221112222111222111222111 all the time?
Melee ranger is pretty easy too, you go 111111151111111151111115 and save 2,3,4 for evading incoming attacks (if sword dagger) or 1111411115211111411111 with SB, save 3 for evading incoming attacks.
GS is just 1111111111111111111111111111111 – enemy with low health, press 2. When you are low on health, press 3 till you are outside of enemy range, then press 4.

Ranger combat is -not- rocketscience. It is very mindless and easy. Learning when to dodge/evade and reading the opponent is what makes it hard, that and putting up with the pet.

I don’t think anyone will argue that Rangers are good at 1v1 due to their ability to have insane regeneration, but again, this topic is brought up under WvW.

WvW is not usually a 1v1 area, this is where groups get together and fight. They rely on one another to cover off on each others weakness to make a solid core group; this is where the Rangers lack.

No matter how you slice it when it comes to WvW play (unless your roaming), other classes will do it simply better. If your intention as a Ranger is to sit back and long range and AoE a zerg (like I did) an elementalist will do it better. Their AoE is far stronger, their #1 staff fire explodes hitting multiple targets. Chain lightning is stronger than axes #1. They can AoE heal from afar and also deliver far better CC as well. They are just plain better at that play.

If your intention is to melee and get in there and mix it up in the zerg, a warrior is better.

This is not to say that Rangers are not effective in zergs, they just aren’t nearly as effective as other classes.

DeadlySynz.3471:

I don’t think anyone will argue that Rangers are good at 1v1 due to their ability to have insane regeneration, but again, this topic is brought up under WvW.

WvW is not usually a 1v1 area, this is where groups get together and fight. They rely on one another to cover off on each others weakness to make a solid core group; this is where the Rangers lack.

No matter how you slice it when it comes to WvW play (unless your roaming), other classes will do it simply better. If your intention as a Ranger is to sit back and long range and AoE a zerg (like I did) an elementalist will do it better. Their AoE is far stronger, their #1 staff fire explodes hitting multiple targets. Chain lightning is stronger than axes #1. They can AoE heal from afar and also deliver far better CC as well. They are just plain better at that play.

If your intention is to melee and get in there and mix it up in the zerg, a warrior is better.

This is not to say that Rangers are not effective in zergs, they just aren’t nearly as effective as other classes.

I play mostly Ele and Ranger, so saying ele is better at CC is correct, yet not.
Ele is very good at stun/daze with static field from staff or conjured hammer. However the cooldown on this skill, and the fact that it is often used to speed up your zerg, leaving it on CD just before fights, is negative.
In ZvZ you want to stop the heavy frontline, so the enemy backline “lose their meatshield”. The hands down best condition for this is Immobilize, because it totally ignores stability. Stun is strong, however the high uptime of stability is more often then not, higher then the uptime of boon-stripping. Thus the enemy can, and has often just powered through my static fields. Some stragglers get caught, but it is not nearly as effective as widespread immob spam.
Also, people misjudge the USE of skills. You do not just mindlessly spam entangle in the middle of the AOE’s, you trigger it against the backline or flanks. Shaving down larger portions rather then trying to stop everyone at once (which is futile).

Rangers are very good companions if you have a guard in party. A properly specced support ranger will compliment a guard’s healing, making sure that outside of stability, the guard can focus more on it’s own performance then being “forced” into full support.

The day rangers get group stability share (please let us trait so we can share stuff like RaO. We would be epic if we could), they will most likely slowly phase out guards in roaming groups due to much higher mobility and ease of movement. They are both excellent healers, and while guards are better at direct heals, ranger simply excel (beyond all other classes) at group wide passive heal (Water spirit + SoN + Regen shouts and a group can enjoy nearly 1200 hp/second healing, in addition to what they can produce themselves.

TyPin.9860:

Atherakhia.4086:

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

snip

I play what i want, i play how i want, i play when and where i want aaaaaaand, wait for it……….. you do the exact same thing.

As we both should. And I’m happy you actually enjoy it. But you’re still as ineffective as any other Ranger.

may i suggest you for once may be wrong? Or maybe your infinite wisdom can finally shed light on something my ranger cannot provide that is not positive.

I could be wrong. 99% of the WvW community isn’t though. Rangers are easily the most ineffective class in WvW.

I respond to this with a quote from Winston Churchil:

“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Adepted for GW2 I want to say, that the mayority of players may not be right about some issues. Also the players writing in the forum and making their opinion public represent not the mayority of players playing the game. Thus, you only know a fraction of WvWer’s opinions through the forum.

I remember back in the day, when every1 said how bad necromancers are and I was beating the hell out of my opponents even 1v3 with a condition build, that was on a pre doom fire patch, before every1 complained about the op-ness of necro conditions.

What I enjoy in this game is one thing:

I am not a really great player. My responses are often slow, my dodges often random or gutt feeling dodges than responsive and my awarness of the battle field is average. Still, by building special builds (I rarely run mainstream builds) I win most of my roaming engagements. This is the matter with my necromancer, with my mesmer and with my (power) ranger.

99% of the players, without wanting to insult anyone, are playing “effective” and the builds that have been “established”. I experiment most of the time, trying new builds and adapting them. If I start out with a maionstream build (with a profession I am unfamiliar with), I quickly adept it to my needs until the build fits my playstyle and not my playstyle fits the build. And I guess that is, what the ranger that was witnessed by the OP was doing. He exploits a niche, that most players are simply not aware of.

Regarding the first part of the post, I agree. It’s hazardous to balance games around the typical player and instead it’s ideal to balance games around the highest level of play otherwise the game will naturally become broken as skill level rises. All player anecdotes need to be taken with a pillar of salt, if not ignored entirely when they pass off stuff as the absolute truth. It’s especially hard, because it’s difficult to find an authority on wvw (hah!)that aren’t self-procaimed… high end gvgers maybe, though the verdict for rangers might be worse there.

On the other hand, it would be necessary to come up with rangers that are competitive in large scale environments and the evidence and argument for that still have to be conceived of before this class can gain credibility in this context.

Prysin.8542:

DeadlySynz.3471:

I don’t think anyone will argue that Rangers are good at 1v1 due to their ability to have insane regeneration, but again, this topic is brought up under WvW.

WvW is not usually a 1v1 area, this is where groups get together and fight. They rely on one another to cover off on each others weakness to make a solid core group; this is where the Rangers lack.

No matter how you slice it when it comes to WvW play (unless your roaming), other classes will do it simply better. If your intention as a Ranger is to sit back and long range and AoE a zerg (like I did) an elementalist will do it better. Their AoE is far stronger, their #1 staff fire explodes hitting multiple targets. Chain lightning is stronger than axes #1. They can AoE heal from afar and also deliver far better CC as well. They are just plain better at that play.

If your intention is to melee and get in there and mix it up in the zerg, a warrior is better.

This is not to say that Rangers are not effective in zergs, they just aren’t nearly as effective as other classes.

I play mostly Ele and Ranger, so saying ele is better at CC is correct, yet not.
Ele is very good at stun/daze with static field from staff or conjured hammer. However the cooldown on this skill, and the fact that it is often used to speed up your zerg, leaving it on CD just before fights, is negative.
In ZvZ you want to stop the heavy frontline, so the enemy backline “lose their meatshield”. The hands down best condition for this is Immobilize, because it totally ignores stability. Stun is strong, however the high uptime of stability is more often then not, higher then the uptime of boon-stripping. Thus the enemy can, and has often just powered through my static fields. Some stragglers get caught, but it is not nearly as effective as widespread immob spam.
Also, people misjudge the USE of skills. You do not just mindlessly spam entangle in the middle of the AOE’s, you trigger it against the backline or flanks. Shaving down larger portions rather then trying to stop everyone at once (which is futile).

Rangers are very good companions if you have a guard in party. A properly specced support ranger will compliment a guard’s healing, making sure that outside of stability, the guard can focus more on it’s own performance then being “forced” into full support.

The day rangers get group stability share (please let us trait so we can share stuff like RaO. We would be epic if we could), they will most likely slowly phase out guards in roaming groups due to much higher mobility and ease of movement. They are both excellent healers, and while guards are better at direct heals, ranger simply excel (beyond all other classes) at group wide passive heal (Water spirit + SoN + Regen shouts and a group can enjoy nearly 1200 hp/second healing, in addition to what they can produce themselves.

Now wouldn’t that be nice of RaO was passed on to others with the right traits.. something like that would be a game changing thing to make Rangers more desirable in groups. Sadly, I don’t think we’ll ever see that.

There is one thing I’ve always maintained the biggest mistake a zerg ever makes is to run through front line or meat shield in “attempt” to kill the back line. Biggest mistake ever. If I’m on the map and I recognize that is the tactic of the enemy zerg, I drop meteor shower behind my zerg. Enemy zerg runs through, nearly all of them end up either downed or dead. Point being, immobilize is not as effective as a direct damage spike. Immobilize is too easily cleansed, and popping entangle in a zerg will get the roots destroyed by incoming AoE (especially meteor shower).

As a fragile full glass staff Ele myself, there is nothing an enemy zerg can really do if they take a full brunt of meteor shower doing 6K-9K on their heads. Boon stripping won’t make a difference. The ranger won’t out-heal it in a spirit build. Their roots wont survive, nor will their healing spring keep people alive.

As I’ve maintained many times before; I’ve played my Ranger considerably more than my elementalist. 35K kills in WvW while rarely dying, I learned quite well what they are good at and what they aren’t good at. One thing I learned was in zerg play, they just aren’t as good as classes.

Jitters.9401:

Tricare.2946:

Rangers are strong when the size of the group they are with or fighting, is 3 or less. The more people that are added after that, the ranger should be replaced with another class that does what you want from the ranger, better.

Also, all good rangers could instantly tell you what build the person was running after a few seconds of fighting. Rangers only have 2 builds that work well and 30 points are always in the same trait line.

This post?

Your first part makes no sense. The ranger is equally as strong in every scenario. That will never change. Another perfect example is the backstab thief. They are always the same strength. The only issue is how they use that strength in zerg fighting.

You will see backstab thieves on the outskirts taking down squishies. Rangers can do their own version of that or just sit and tag as many enemies as possible for loot bags. Either way, their strength does not ever change. I’ve not seen any ranger doing anything but go straight for loot bag acquisition.

wrong a ranger does get weaker if there are more ppl around him, in a 3v3 the rangers pet suffers aoe from 3 persons and has a slight chance of survival so he does 100% dmg because pet is alive and does its part(a bit), in 5v5 to 10v10 the pet will die fast so the ranger does only his part so 70% dmg. Pet and Spirits die fast to any aoe so ranger is pointless in zergs or GvG. Although the ranger has no good way of removing conditions except by putting them on the pet which hurts their dps. Half of their utility´s are useless like shouts, some traps and lightning reflexes the other half is no good unless traited for. Ranged weapons do less damage then ranged weapons on most other classes, this profession is called the ranger so it should do more ranged dmg than a warrior. Most of the Traits are bad and tied to the pet, you can´t use half of the builds because you have to go 30 into ws and 30 into the traitline for the build with 10 left. No good source of stability for condi builds because only stability is on Rampage as One.

The Player the OP saw must be really skilled, because the facts are against the class being good

Rangers can be built to be excellent roamers, but overall , anything they do, some other class just does better.

Ranger = Expert mode.

Warrior = Easy Mode.

@ArchonWing.9480
I agree that rangers become less and less effective, the more players are involved. That is the same with Mesmer btw. However, Mesmers have unique utilities that can be vital to Zerg play, while Rangers lack such abilities. Stuff rangers can do in large scale fights can be done better by other professions imo. But the OP was talking about small scale fights, so that’s what I was refering to.

@DaMikenatr.7041
I am not sure how to respond, because it feels you are not really answering to my post. I am not dismissing the experience of players. I am just pointing out, that the opinion of the majority must not be the one closest to what is actually true. As a company, I would – if I was only caring about pleasing the most players – still listen to those, who represent the masses. If that would be a good/wise move is another question.

My point with my old necro build was not to compare it to rangers, but to underline the mistake that players make, when letting themselve being influenced by a biased mainstream idea.

P.S. I am not telling you, under which rock I live. It’s a nice rock and I want it all to myself. Find yourself an own rock, if you desire one…

From the blog related to the new feature pack coming on April 15th…

Ranger: Read the Wind (Marksman GM trait)
Ranger: Your arrows are swift and deadly, but in some scenarios they are not as fast as they need to be and your enemies can dodge them easily. With Marksmanship’s new Read the Wind, your longbow arrows will fire at twice their base velocity, allowing for supreme accuracy at long range.

This + Quickening Zephyr and rangers can once more kill thieves, necros, eles, mesmers and anything else with too low HP with “Gattling Gun Rapid Fire”…
#PowerLBroaming2014

Prysin.8542:

From the blog related to the new feature pack coming on April 15th…

Ranger: Read the Wind (Marksman GM trait)
Ranger: Your arrows are swift and deadly, but in some scenarios they are not as fast as they need to be and your enemies can dodge them easily. With Marksmanship’s new Read the Wind, your longbow arrows will fire at twice their base velocity, allowing for supreme accuracy at long range.

This + Quickening Zephyr and rangers can once more kill thieves, necros, eles, mesmers and anything else with too low HP with “Gattling Gun Rapid Fire”…
#PowerLBroaming2014

brings even more selfishness in ranger for WvW zerg, and I highly doubt anyone uses this for roaming lol.

theives, meh anything will kill them if they are on low health + you rarely see them in zergs lol. besides they have stealth if they get low on health
necros, yea they are never easy to kill with 2 life bars
eles/mesmers have plenty of reflects, but yeah, they will be easier to kill but eles just got a ton of healing

This trait change doesn’t change the fact rangers are pretty much worthless in a group setting for WvW. It only encourages selfish play by spending a lot of trait points into a faster pew pew.

Overall a meh change. have fun killing yourself with QZ + new trait + peircing arrow. Retailation/reflects are are gonna hurt lol

I’m sorry, but I also have an ele and a ranger.
I simply don’t user ranger at all in WvW. Ele is just so much more useful and versatile for a group and its not even debatable. They just got even better with their new 25% healing boost.

Rangers aren’t useful if you are trying to support a group lol.

Prysin.8542:

From the blog related to the new feature pack coming on April 15th…

Ranger: Read the Wind (Marksman GM trait)
Ranger: Your arrows are swift and deadly, but in some scenarios they are not as fast as they need to be and your enemies can dodge them easily. With Marksmanship’s new Read the Wind, your longbow arrows will fire at twice their base velocity, allowing for supreme accuracy at long range.

This + Quickening Zephyr and rangers can once more kill thieves, necros, eles, mesmers and anything else with too low HP with “Gattling Gun Rapid Fire”…
#PowerLBroaming2014

You’re reading too much into this. Rapid Fire’s DPS won’t be impacted at all by the trait. All it does is increase the projectile speed of the arrows themselves, not their rate of fire. Even if it did increase rate of fire, it still wouldn’t impact Rapid Fire as it’s just a static amount of damage over X seconds.

At best, it would change ROF for auto attack, but if it did that, Rapid Fire would have no use whatsoever becauseit’s already no real DPS gain at anything but min range.

All this new trait is, is more proof to add to the argument that ANet has no idea what they’re doing with the Ranger class.

Atherakhia.4086:

All this new trait is, is more proof to add to the argument that ANet has no idea what they’re doing with the Ranger class.

Way many people asked for faster arrows because players can just sidestep to avoid them… Not because it is not something you are looking forward to for your gameplay does not mean it’s a useless trait…
I’m more questioning making a gm trait out of something that just make LB arrows more likely to hit than the need of that feature…

Jocksy.3415:

Way many people asked for faster arrows because players can just sidestep to avoid them… Not because it is not something you are looking forward to for your gameplay does not mean it’s a useless trait…
I’m more questioning making a gm trait out of something that just make LB arrows more likely to hit than the need of that feature…

But on another trait? LB traits are already too many, why can’t they just simply increase the base speed?

Sarision.6347:

Jocksy.3415:

Way many people asked for faster arrows because players can just sidestep to avoid them… Not because it is not something you are looking forward to for your gameplay does not mean it’s a useless trait…
I’m more questioning making a gm trait out of something that just make LB arrows more likely to hit than the need of that feature…

But on another trait? LB traits are already too many, why can’t they just simply increase the base speed?

Here, I bolded something for you…
Though English is not my language, so maybe I didn’t say it properly?
I meant This is underpowered for a GM trait, and it is not something we should have to trait to get… arrows flying faster should be a base LB thing…

Jocksy.3415:

Atherakhia.4086:

All this new trait is, is more proof to add to the argument that ANet has no idea what they’re doing with the Ranger class.

Way many people asked for faster arrows because players can just sidestep to avoid them… Not because it is not something you are looking forward to for your gameplay does not mean it’s a useless trait…
I’m more questioning making a gm trait out of something that just make LB arrows more likely to hit than the need of that feature…

Your bolded part from the other post is exactly the point.

As it stands right now a Longbow Ranger will need to choose between Piercing Arrows, Eagle Eye, Spotter, and Signet of the Beastmaster. Is the trait anywhere close to any of these in power or worth? Hardly.

Another problem with the trait is it only has any impact on a single weapon, the longbow. Worse still, it really only helps one skill on that weapon. So a 30pt trait to affect a single skill on a single weapon? I’m not sure what’s worse.. this or remorseless.

This new trait has adept minor written all over it. And thus back to my original comment… every time ANet does something for the Ranger class it only reaffirms my suspicions that they don’t play it.

Atherakhia.4086:

Jocksy.3415:

Atherakhia.4086:

All this new trait is, is more proof to add to the argument that ANet has no idea what they’re doing with the Ranger class.

Way many people asked for faster arrows because players can just sidestep to avoid them… Not because it is not something you are looking forward to for your gameplay does not mean it’s a useless trait…
I’m more questioning making a gm trait out of something that just make LB arrows more likely to hit than the need of that feature…

Your bolded part from the other post is exactly the point.

As it stands right now a Longbow Ranger will need to choose between Piercing Arrows, Eagle Eye, Spotter, and Signet of the Beastmaster. Is the trait anywhere close to any of these in power or worth? Hardly.

Another problem with the trait is it only has any impact on a single weapon, the longbow. Worse still, it really only helps one skill on that weapon. So a 30pt trait to affect a single skill on a single weapon? I’m not sure what’s worse.. this or remorseless.

This new trait has adept minor written all over it. And thus back to my original comment… every time ANet does something for the Ranger class it only reaffirms my suspicions that they don’t play it.

Then again you can narrow it down;
Signet of the Beastmaster – only really viable with signet build, or else you will not get proper boost from the signets (which does add a LOT of DPS, especially SotW)
Spotter – wouldnt choose it over Eagle Eye unless i am specifically using a group/team build.
Piercing arrows or Eagle Eye – wouldn’t take any of these instead of Signet of the Beastmaster (trait to make signets work).

Unless they make signets work without trait, there is only one build i can see this work with, and that is my PvE build, Beast-Cannon. Simply because quickness will speed up animation frames and with projectile increase, the DPS should go up by a noticable margin.

Still, 4 more traits to be unveiled. The ones i am most curious about is the upcoming BM, Skirmisher and Nature Magic ones. WS, neither of the current GM ones are great, and unless they re-invent the wheel, there will be nothing in the GM tier worth taking for my builds.

The only time I really feel inferior with my Ranger is when I end up fighting a terrormancer, like I just see him and I know what’s coming (I got no stability so 2-3-4 fear GG) and I just go make coffee or something while he’s killing me. Other than that I haven’t felt like I don’t stand a chance against any of the other classes or specs. I mean people here raise valid points about zerg fights and what not but for the small scale WvW that I do exclusively, Ranger is exactly what I need to get the job done.

First OP, of course, triumph this beast of a Ranger, then he watch him win in every 1v1 and almost every 1v2. Okey, Rangers are strong in duels, I play one myself on occasion, but in what WvW universe is one able to do all these random 1v1 and 1v2? It’s all blob, blob, blob unless he was, probably, camping a few upleveled at a map completion objective.

Gambit.8425:

Okey, Rangers are strong in duels

They are?

In all my hours of GW2 I have met a total of two rangers that where decent. 1 of them was impossible to kill (I haven no idea what build he was using but we where 2v1 and couldnt do it) and the other died, but it was a fight at least.

I dont even want to begin to think of the many times the random 22222222 theif has killed me.

Ranger isnt even close to being strong.

Well either that or 99% of all Rangers are idiots, I dont know.

Sreoom.3690:

Ranger = Expert mode.

Warrior = Easy Mode.

agreed. you need to be an expert indeed to play a ranger, which is why many people gave up at the first try.

also agreed on warrior being an easy mode, along with guardian, which is why 90% of WvW group composition are warrior/guardian.

Dawdler.8521:

Gambit.8425:

Okey, Rangers are strong in duels

They are?

In all my hours of GW2 I have met a total of two rangers that where decent. 1 of them was impossible to kill (I haven no idea what build he was using but we where 2v1 and couldnt do it) and the other died, but it was a fight at least.

I dont even want to begin to think of the many times the random 22222222 theif has killed me.

Ranger isnt even close to being strong.

Well either that or 99% of all Rangers are idiots, I dont know.

Just cause you’ve run into 100s of bearbow herplekittentons doesn’t mean the ranger isn’t a strong duel class.

Amurond.4590:

Dawdler.8521:

Gambit.8425:

Okey, Rangers are strong in duels

They are?

In all my hours of GW2 I have met a total of two rangers that where decent. 1 of them was impossible to kill (I haven no idea what build he was using but we where 2v1 and couldnt do it) and the other died, but it was a fight at least.

I dont even want to begin to think of the many times the random 22222222 theif has killed me.

Ranger isnt even close to being strong.

Well either that or 99% of all Rangers are idiots, I dont know.

Just cause you’ve run into 100s of bearbow herplekittentons doesn’t mean the ranger isn’t a strong duel class.

if a random 2222222222 thief kills you that often, you should check your build before dismissing the class.