Guild Wars 2

psizone.8437:

Jedge.3619:

Straegen.2938:

Jedge.3619:

Ranger? You mean, free kill?

and the reason so many people think Rangers are bad… when you run into one that is hard to kill it is a complete surprise since most drop fast or do no damage.

You mean the insane healing ranger or tanky condi bunker? If we’re talking zergs, useless. Roaming or Duels maybe. Spvp yes.

But most classes are pretty useless in zergs. If you’re not a hammer-warrior, guardian or elementalist then you’re not going to be much use in that environment, it’s not specific to rangers.

Necros – wells, aoe condi, boon stripping.
Mesmers – Veil Bot, Glamour bombs, Portals
Thieves – Stealth, picking off targets, venom share
Engineer – Grenades
Ranger – Que?

Straegen.2938:

No… just no. Entangle is one of the worst elites in the game. Long cool down, its bonuses completely disappear with condi-cleanse and it only effects 5 people. Its greatest sin, keeping players from one of the best elites in the game. Warriors laugh as soon as that thing fires since all you did was drop a regen heal on them most of the time.

As soon as I see a ranger drop that elite I know one thing… they don’t have easy access to stability. 20s of stability/fury/swiftness for an immobilize/bleed… Seriously?

In groups fights or zergs it’s usually a guardians job to apply stability to team mates.

In a fight with a condi ranger, you’ll be clearing conditions a lot. All it takes is for you to be immobilized by either a spider or muddy terrain and unless you have a condi-cleanse and a dodge lined up then you’re going to get hit by entangle and take substantial damage, especially if the ranger is continuing to attack you.

Personally, I have no problems fighting hammer warriors since I can evade and dodge most of their attacks, and my melandru runes reduce the effectiveness of their stuns if they hit and I have access to a stun break.

Entangle isn’t perfect, but if you get it to connect, it can win you a fight.

Plus, it clears camps and towers almost on it’s own and a 2 minute cooldown isn’t that drastic.

Jedge.3619:

Necros – wells, aoe condi, boon stripping.
Mesmers – Veil Bot, Glamour bombs, Portals
Thieves – Stealth, picking off targets, venom share
Engineer – Grenades
Ranger – Que?

I agree with necros and mesmers, but thieves are about as useful as a ranger (picking a single target and kill it, sharing venon is the worst excuse I ever heard) and nades condis will be cleansed by the guardians/warriors on the oposing zerg even before they reach the ground…

So, Ranger/Thieves/Engineers in a zerg is a big NO.

Jedge.3619:

Necros – wells, aoe condi, boon stripping.
Mesmers – Veil Bot, Glamour bombs, Portals
Thieves – Stealth, picking off targets, venom share
Engineer – Grenades
Ranger – Que?

Necros – Yeah, wells can help a zerg. I’ll grant you that
Mesmers – purely situational and most zergs are more aware of portal bombs now
Thieves – picking off targets in an army of hammer warriors is difficult and venoms conditions can be cleared by eles and guardians condition removal
Engineer – Grenades can be tricky to get right in a zerg fight, so situational
Ranger – Entangle (situational), waterfield (outdone by ele)

Like I said, most classes are outclassed in a zerg by the main 3 (now 4 since I admitted necros can be handy)

psizone.8437:

In a fight with a condi ranger, you’ll be clearing conditions a lot. All it takes is for you to be immobilized by either a spider or muddy terrain and unless you have a condi-cleanse and a dodge lined up then you’re going to get hit by entangle and take substantial damage, especially if the ranger is continuing to attack you.
…

Entangle isn’t perfect, but if you get it to connect, it can win you a fight.

I will point out again that taking Entangle over Rampage as One is near criminal. One gives fury, swiftness and stability for 20s (usually longer depending on how a Ranger is traited). The other applies an immobilize and stacks of bleeds on a 2.5 minute timer. I would say RaO is even more valuable since the Ranger has very few ways of gaining stability. RaO also effects the pet which isn’t a huge deal unless of course a player is running a BM build.

Any build with any condi removal (as in most builds these days) will hardly notice Entangle since both the bleeds and immobilize are easily removed conditions. It certainly won’t zerg bust since it only effects five people. As for warriors, immobilizing one is almost impossible and often a favor (Dogged March). As soon as I see that ability go off, I know I am looking at one dead Ranger. The only worse sin is when a Ranger goes into the lean back Barrage during an open field fight.

Ranger and thief suffer from the same issue.

If you scale their numbers like you normally do (30-40 man team you want 2-3 thieves/rangers just to hunt down running backliners) then they do NOTHING of importance.
If you scale their numbers like you normally do with warrior/guard, meaning roughly 30-40% of the zerg is of that class, then you’d see something different.

For WvW, rangers need three things now that pet F2 is reliable;

1. Pet HP and toughness is scaled similar to big PvE bosses is (more enemies, higher defensive stats only)

1. The ability to grant stability to allies, either on pet swap, signet effect use (new Signet of the beastmaster function anyone?) or allowing us to share RaO with its current boons and durations(would make us brokenly OP no matter what, i know).

1. Revert Search and Rescue to its old form where the pet could revive a defeated ally. The nerfing of that skill was uncalled for in ANY other mode then sPvP.

Straegen.2938:

RaO also effects the pet which isn’t a huge deal unless of course a player is running a BM build.

RaO is brokenly OP even without BM.
RaO grants might to pet when player attacks, and might to player when pet attacks… What does this mean?
I summon my murwellow (dat ugly naked bear thing) and use its F2 (poison field)… Enemy zerg runs through and it tags over half a map blob in its 7 sec lifetime.

Result: Instant 25 stacks of might for me.

Straegen.2938:

I will point out again that taking Entangle over Rampage as One is near criminal. One gives fury, swiftness and stability for 20s (usually longer depending on how a Ranger is traited). The other applies an immobilize and stacks of bleeds on a 2.5 minute timer. I would say RoA is even more valuable since the Ranger has very few ways of gaining stability. RoA also effects the pet which isn’t a huge deal unless of course a player is running a BM build.

Any build with any condi removal (as in most builds these days) will hardly notice Entangle since both the bleeds and immobilize are easily removed conditions. It certainly won’t zerg bust since it only effects five people. As for warriors, immobilizing one is almost impossible and often a favor (Dogged March). As soon as I see that ability go off, I know I am looking at one dead Ranger.

I disagree with it being criminal, RAO is very useful for it’s stability and the might (swiftness isn’t particularly needed and fury isn’t a dealbreaker with a condi build), but entangles bleed and immobilize is nothing to scoff at if it hits. Yes, some warriors (and other classes) are able to counter it at times, but the ranger has access to other attacks, too, so missing with it isn’t the end of the world. (it’s timer is 2 minutes with the reduced recharge trait)

When I roam on my ranger I usually have entangle on because I know that most classes I’ll run into are quite susceptible to a well placed entangle.

Straegen.2938:

. As for warriors, immobilizing one is almost impossible and often a favor (Dogged March).

They nerfed it, added a ICD…. now you only get regen every 20 seconds…. and that regen barely lasts 12.5 with full boon duration and isn’t that strong because you are more likely to run PVT then any form of armor with healing stats. Sure you got 4-6 points in Defense. But 300 healing power is meh when it comes to regen.

Also…. Entangle is not a super skill, but it has a side effect… if you cleanse it without breaking roots, you are not always allowed to move on. Warriors just smash the roots with the hammer, but the warriors are not the main “target” for immob. Its guardians….
Yes, even with a million cleanses, once you make them burn their cleanses, they just crumble during focus fire, as they do not have the HP pool that warriors has to soak up damage. However once the guard dies, the zerg loses might stacks, retal and burst healing by the loads, not to mention stability and protection too.
Warriors does not pose a big threat by themselves. However their ability to “lock” enemies in their own zergs AOE is what makes them scary… warriors without stability and a million cleanses isn’t scary, it’s simply mildly humorous to watch them flail around with their hammers, doing nothing productive at all.

Prysin.8542:

RaO is brokenly OP even without BM.
RaO grants might to pet when player attacks, and might to player when pet attacks… What does this mean?
I summon my murwellow (dat ugly naked bear thing) and use its F2 (poison field)… Enemy zerg runs through and it tags over half a map blob in its 7 sec lifetime.

Result: Instant 25 stacks of might for me.

I thought the might stacks only formed from the attack activation not the resulting targets. I never tried it though. If it does work that way, Rapid Fire must stack some serious might on a pet. Still 8s might per attack activation is a pretty nice bonus.

Entangle is a deceptive elite skill. On scrubs, it works amazingly well.. so well it convinces many rangers to keep it. On good players, it has almost no effect. IMO scrubs are easy to kill without entangle and I know when I ran my ranger I was always looking for 20% more crits, faster movement and stability against solid players.

Straegen.2938:

Prysin.8542:

RaO is brokenly OP even without BM.
RaO grants might to pet when player attacks, and might to player when pet attacks… What does this mean?
I summon my murwellow (dat ugly naked bear thing) and use its F2 (poison field)… Enemy zerg runs through and it tags over half a map blob in its 7 sec lifetime.

Result: Instant 25 stacks of might for me.

I thought the might stacks only formed from the attack activation not the resulting targets. I never tried it though. If it does work that way, Rapid Fire must stack some serious might on a pet. Still 8s might per attack activation is a pretty nice bonus.

Entangle is a deceptive elite skill. On scrubs, it works amazingly well.. so well it convinces many rangers to keep it. On good players, it has almost no effect. IMO scrubs are easy to kill without entangle and I know when I ran my ranger I was always looking for 20% more crits, faster movement and stability against solid players.

Warhorn offhand with quickening zephyr – 17 stacks of might (if using beastmasters might and sword mainhand AA) you can get 25 stacks and maintain 12 stacks almost permanently….

Most OP pet burst combo ever is jaguar pet with 25 stacks of might, Signet of the hunt, Signet of the wild and Sic’em…. darn pet gets something close to 215% increased damage…..
And yes, it hits hard… before patch i used such a setup to hit a fresh air ele for around 10.1k…. It can hit a bunker guard for 5.5k in sPvP….

Also, since pets actually listen now, even with minimal micromanagement, it is easy to keep them alive. Because now you can call em back before they run into a AOE circle. Unlike before where they would run into the circle first, then back through it because you called it back some 10 seconds ago….

Prysin.8542:

Most OP pet burst combo ever is jaguar pet with 25 stacks of might, Signet of the hunt, Signet of the wild and Sic’em…. darn pet gets something close to 215% increased damage…..
And yes, it hits hard… before patch i used such a setup to hit a fresh air ele for around 10.1k…. It can hit a bunker guard for 5.5k in sPvP….

I ran a Ranger for about 6 months in WvW in the first year of GW2. They were so much better than today. The Jag used to clock players for north of 15k when stacked… watching it kill thieves was a particular joy. Sending it up on the wall to kill wall warriors or their ACs was a thing of beauty. Everybody wanted a Ranger around the zerg back then.

Straegen.2938:

Prysin.8542:

Most OP pet burst combo ever is jaguar pet with 25 stacks of might, Signet of the hunt, Signet of the wild and Sic’em…. darn pet gets something close to 215% increased damage…..
And yes, it hits hard… before patch i used such a setup to hit a fresh air ele for around 10.1k…. It can hit a bunker guard for 5.5k in sPvP….

I ran a Ranger for about 6 months in WvW in the first year of GW2. They were so much better than today. The Jag used to clock players for north of 15k when stacked… watching it kill thieves was a particular joy. Sending it up on the wall to kill wall warriors or their ACs was a thing of beauty. Everybody wanted a Ranger around the zerg back then.

But, we became more OP against thieves now

""Hunter’s Call: Fixed a bug that caused the hawks summoned by this skill to become obstructed if line of sight was broken between the player and their target.""

the damage isnt great, but if you run BM, like i do, between LB and Sword/warhorn, you now have 2 stealthtracking attacks

Also, ranger during the first year was horrible. I started in december ’12…. rangers back then, besides quickness from a minor trait and epic attack speed and hard hitting cats. They were horrible….
The amount rangers has progressed from back then (if not using ranged) is enormous. However, the buffs has come so slowly, and been met with such lukewarm reception that i honestly think not many has noticed anything at all. Especially thanks to all the glasscannon LB rangers running around…

Well, rangers are the best at making people rage quit while solo roaming

Sure another profession can kill faster but no one cares when they get finished by: warrior, guard, necro, ele, thief, engi…..but a ranger! oh its the end of the world!! If it’s a LB ranger, hell just froze over!! If they died in entangle, the ranger is a HACKER!!!!!

Most thieves can not fathom losing a 1v1 to a ranger! What blasphemy is this!!! Rangers are supposed to thief food!! For some reason, the elitists in the game get too personal when they get finished by a ranger, and that is what rangers are best at. NO other profession strikes the annoying rage from a finisher like the ranger

Rangers with Cow/Quaggan finishers? OMG that’s too OP for me… Nerf Plz…

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

LB can be great if used properly but it’s really, really not meant for duels… I think a lot of people are thinking Archer and not Ranger.

LOL…..quoted for truth! LB truly, truly sucks up close.

When I first started leveling a Ranger, I was guilty of thinking of it as an archer like I had played in other mmos……but you learn really fast that LB is not meant for in close battles. I have a difficult time imagining anyone playing a Ranger longbow all the time for everything……that person would really have to be completely clueless about the class.

But, stranger things have happened in mmos.

Jackums.3496:

Every profession can survive in a zerg. I can go on my level 20 up-level and survive. That hardly refutes what I said. The Ranger is overall mediocre in larger groups.

Also, Entangle is one of the most useless elites in the game in a zerg situation. The amount of cleave and cleanse in a zerg nullifies it completely. For small roaming groups and skirmishes? Sure. For anything that qualifies as a “zerg”? Never.

So you’re just ignoring my “they can solo camps and towers” and sticking to the “they can’t do anything except roam” theory?

Noobie.1073:

Well, rangers are the best at making people rage quit while solo roaming

Sure another profession can kill faster but no one cares when they get finished by: warrior, guard, necro, ele, thief, engi…..but a ranger! oh its the end of the world!! If it’s a LB ranger, hell just froze over!! If they died in entangle, the ranger is a HACKER!!!!!

Most thieves can not fathom losing a 1v1 to a ranger! What blasphemy is this!!! Rangers are supposed to thief food!! For some reason, the elitists in the game get too personal when they get finished by a ranger, and that is what rangers are best at. NO other profession strikes the annoying rage from a finisher like the ranger

LMAO!!!! Awhile back, I actually did that to a thief in wvw. I am sure it was a fairly inexperienced one…..had to be, as I am usually thief food when I am not being careful.

Was running back to the northernmost keep during a big keep defense, and noticed this enemy thief come running down the main stairs on the northern side, so I hit him with a couple long ranged shots, one crit, pet was on him…so he stealthed and I got lucky at guessing where he might come out of stealth, hit him a few more times and actually got entangle off and locked him down, then the pet and I killed him. Am sure he was a wvw newb, and just panicked…..but I got a good laugh out of how he must have been screaming and cussing at getting killed by a lowly ranger……was pretty funny. Pretty sure I used the bunny finisher on him, too.

I quite enjoy playing my ranger in zergs and roaming with a group. But its not a good profession to “play the meta” with.
But truth is, if you arent a warrior, guardian, necro or ele you arent in the zerg meta.

And it certainly has its share of problems, such as needing a GM trait just so longbow can hit reliably over the range it is given.
But i think people sometimes exegerate exactly how bad Rangers are.

The Primary reason:

• Rangers are generally underpowered and unappreciated for most situations in WvW.
  They just do not have many viable or useful tools to use for a vast majority of situations in WvW even when using their most optimal builds.
  Other professions can do more damage easier and have more useful tools to use in groups even with suboptimal builds.
• Engineers are also in the same boat, but have a little bit more utility for more situations than the Ranger.

However, a great Ranger that really knows how to play a Ranger will be able to crush most of their opponents in 1v1, and help their allies in team fights.

Prysin.8542:

Also, ranger during the first year was horrible. I started in december ’12…. rangers back then, besides quickness from a minor trait and epic attack speed and hard hitting cats. They were horrible….
The amount rangers has progressed from back then (if not using ranged) is enormous. However, the buffs has come so slowly, and been met with such lukewarm reception that i honestly think not many has noticed anything at all. Especially thanks to all the glasscannon LB rangers running around…

You must have not been running some crap build back then. Pets could climb walls, pet damage was significantly higher for certain pets (looking at you jag), perma-quickness was accessible on a minor trait (which was 100% faster attacks at the time), DPS on the SB was MUCH better, range on the SB was much better, pets could take infinite conditions from a ranger (and those conditions wouldn’t apply to the pet), permanent swiftness was possible, pet range was crazy high, all ranged attacks fired backwards, minor trait gave 50% energy recovery, on and on.

The simple fact a ranger could send their pets to kill siege was awesome. Even better to send the stealth jag that would pop and one shot a staff ele on the wall. Back then the ranger could maintain near permanent quickness, dodging, protection, speed in addition to the other items I have noted.

The Ranger has effectively seen one nerf after the next with very few improvements along the way. Most rangers in game today don’t know what they missed out on.

I think Rangers have a spot in small man roaming, but as soon as you push the numbers up around 10-15+ you will want specific classes for specific roles.

A lot of the guilds we run into with our small man havoc group are set up with hammer trains. Usually something like 10 Guardians, 5 Warriors, 3 Necros, 2 Eles(20 players). The Eles and Necros stay buried right in the middle of the train so they are not easy to pick off and are getting all the boons and heals from those Guards/Warriors.

Condition management is the meta and the best condi control class is Guardian, it is hard to beat the condi removal this class has. Not only this but they have a very short cool down blast finisher on hammer and provide mass boon coverage for their group.

The warriors are generally warhorn/shout heal and hammer, so they have some condi removal, blast finishers and important burst heals.

Despite these classes being mostly bunker they still do enough damage with massed players in 1 area to wreck any ones day. 15 hammers are going to hurt, even bunker hammers if u get caught in the line of the hammer train as it surges back and forth.

Eles provide water fields and nice AoE coverage, the key is the water fields are on a weapon set. And of course the wide area meteor shower. Fire fields as you move to keep rolling might stacks going, and AoE speed with the lightning field.

Necros have absolutely amazing skills for large scale, and with the introduction of Dire armor got even better. For starters they are tough to remove with plague form. They do not sacrifice DPS for that toughness thanks to dire gear and the fact you only need to worry about condition damage as your damaging stat.

Corrupt boon is an incredible boon/condi meta control skill and has some good synergy with epidemic. Then you have well of darkness and corrosive poison cloud to help nerf melee trains. Thats why you pack a few Necros, some will have WoD(dark), some CPC. All will most likely have corrupt boon and epidemic. Both those fields provide blast coverage as well in the form of AoE weakness and AoE blind.

unfortunately Rangers(and other classes) cant really bring anything to the table in larger scale fights. Thieves are good for picking off things that get caught at the edge of the train, but unless it’s a priority target like an ele or necro(which are probably buried right in the middle of all those hammers) then its much of a muchness. And as a thief you cannot possibly go in and drop that target as you will melt in all of about 1 second.

I do see a spot for glamour mesmers in larger groups if they are well played.

Chorazin.4107:

I think Rangers have a spot in small man roaming, but as soon as you push the numbers up around 10-15+ you will want specific classes for specific roles.

unfortunately Rangers(and other classes) cant really bring anything to the table in larger scale fights. Thieves are good for picking off things that get caught at the edge of the train, but unless it’s a priority target like an ele or necro(which are probably buried right in the middle of all those hammers) then its much of a muchness. And as a thief you cannot possibly go in and drop that target as you will melt in all of about 1 second.

I do see a spot for glamour mesmers in larger groups if they are well played.

It does boil down to how you “build” a zerg though…

Sure, rangers are not super tanky, but they do have tonns of mitigation on their weapons and utilities. They have -the- best access to CC in the entire game (dun argue. Rangers throw cripples, chills, knockdowns and immob all around em without trying).
What the ranger lack is a solid support and a solid DPS.
In 1v1, i can produce more dps then any other class bar ele and thief. Because if you actually use the pet (correctly) and build for pet DPS, you can do something like 2x 4k on AA, on each hit.
It is a horribly niche build (mostly PvE) but it works (cuz people dun see it comin).
Rangers do have a VERY good zerg weapon. The Greatsword is arguably one of the better zerg weapons there is. A 1 second evade on the AA rotation. A decent burst (its not great, but considering it is at least 30% weaker then any other burst skill in the game and still crits into the 40k region at max is not bad), a good gap closer, a handy block when you are low. And a short range cleaving stun (need a tight group to cleave).

The GS is further enhanced by two-handed mastery. Which boosts its damage by 5% (should have been 10%, but anet has yet to fix that) and give us 50% chance to get 3.5 seconds of fury, 10sec ICD.

The ranger does “suffer” a bit when it comes to build variety on the power side. And, many like to play power builds, as they in most cases offer more of a challenge then a lazy condi bunker does. However, that does not mean rangers only got 1-2 options when it comes to power builds. Far from.
You can build in several ways, in order to gain massive damage. Some builds are naturally easier then others to play, but that does not make the more “advanced” builds less viable.
Every profession can build for more functions, but more functions generally come at the price of a less forgiving build.

i think the lack of decent AOE is the biggest issue, hence why i suggested traps become 900 range instead of their current 600. 600 range is death unless part of the melee train, and due to traps (condi dmg AOE) being in the prec/crit dmg line, it’s hard to build traps and still be melee tanky enough not to get obliterated.

Overall, rangers do need something in WVW for GvG/zerg clashes, no doubt about it. Nerfing lemongrass/dogged march would prob help rangers out a lot so their AOE immob could actually last more than 0.5sec.

Ok, after playing my mesmer for the first time in WvW last night……yeesh…..wish my ranger could take down enemies that fast! (And I was completely clueless on my mesmer last night, as I hadn’t played him in awhile) Plus, my incompetent mesmer even added some more usefullness to the zerg……..

I now would tend to agree with some of the comments here about how rangers could use a little bit of love….not a huge amount…..just some tweaking. (And yea, I have tried several different setups on my ranger…..not just lbbear….lb/sword-dagger with a dog has been very intriguing so far for my ranger……just got to get more used to the sword-dagger specials…..and yea, I play more of a power build, as I find it more challenging)

The truth about Rangers is, whatever they bring, another class will do it better without the handicap of the pet. The one thing Rangers do have going for them is nobody expect to see them in zerker gear. Outfit one in full zerker and you can dps someone down extremely fast in WvW. You can also provide decent AoE dps as well.

Played right, they almost can never be killed, granted don’t expect your group support to be even remotely as good as any other classes.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

They are the 1v1 duelist profession and if used properly can provide a fair bit of group support.

Sigh… just no. Mesmer is the premier duelist class. Thief is second. Then Engineer. Then it would be Ranger. Ranger is no where near as proficient as the previously three stated professions at dueling. There is a very wide gap between tiers actually. Mesmer,Thief>>>Engineer>>>>>>>>>Ranger>Every other profession.

I find rangers the easiest class to solo camps with (and I have all classes at 80 and I’ve tried soloing camps with all of them). Any class can solo a camp, but rangers have an easier time of it.

Bunker rangers can be surprisingly hard to kill in WvW, but they are ineffective in a Zerg.

Axe rangers can lend a good amount of DPS to a Zerg, but you have to stay out of the way of the hammer train and avoid the red circles. They just don’t have the ability to survive burst damage on the front line. On the back line, with axe, horn, and greatsword, they aren’t too bad. (A lot of people favour LB, but I find the axe much more flexible and mobile, and the war horn blast finisher is not to be underestimated).

DeadlySynz.3471:

The one thing Rangers do have going for them is nobody expect to see them in zerker gear.

Bull’s charge, Hundred Blades, thank you for the free kill mister ranger…

I run exactly what Wanderer said. Axe+horn (with Torment and Earth) and GS (with Intelligence and Purity). Spike Trap, Muddy Terrain and Lightning Reflex. Entangle elite. I play this char as a flanker in wvw zerg fights. If the hammertrain is heading my way of course I GTFO because I cannot survive the clash with the train (I bet any other prof can…). Once they start to maneuver I try to hit the “tail” of their zerg with cripple/immob. To make a bit of spaghetti. So our AoE nukers can land their orbital strikes on this few. If they are in the middle of their zerg they are safe because the AoE cap. But if they fall back even a few yards they are not protected by the numbers.

I do the same with Entangle. Find the tail, swap to GS, swoop in, hit Spike Trap, hit Entangle than press the GTFO button hard. If my pet can follow me during the Swoop I can add Fear and AoE immob to this rotation.

Tl:dr: slowing a few member of the enemy zerg even a few second means they are not protected by AoE cap. And the ranger is very good at this.

Am always trying to play better in WvW……some really good suggestions, Aggro….thanks!

Straegen.2938:

Prysin.8542:

Also, ranger during the first year was horrible. I started in december ’12…. rangers back then, besides quickness from a minor trait and epic attack speed and hard hitting cats. They were horrible….
The amount rangers has progressed from back then (if not using ranged) is enormous. However, the buffs has come so slowly, and been met with such lukewarm reception that i honestly think not many has noticed anything at all. Especially thanks to all the glasscannon LB rangers running around…

You must have not been running some crap build back then. Pets could climb walls, pet damage was significantly higher for certain pets (looking at you jag), perma-quickness was accessible on a minor trait (which was 100% faster attacks at the time), DPS on the SB was MUCH better, range on the SB was much better, pets could take infinite conditions from a ranger (and those conditions wouldn’t apply to the pet), permanent swiftness was possible, pet range was crazy high, all ranged attacks fired backwards, minor trait gave 50% energy recovery, on and on.

The simple fact a ranger could send their pets to kill siege was awesome. Even better to send the stealth jag that would pop and one shot a staff ele on the wall. Back then the ranger could maintain near permanent quickness, dodging, protection, speed in addition to the other items I have noted.

The Ranger has effectively seen one nerf after the next with very few improvements along the way. Most rangers in game today don’t know what they missed out on.

I really like how rangers are getting most of the nerfs.

*Shortbow attack speed nerfed, attack distance nerfed,
*Pets damage nerfed by 50% without giving some of the attack directly back to the ranger,
*No more sniping people on walls,
*Greatsword #1 nerf to the ground with 50% damage decrease during the BWEs, *Quickness minor becoming a BM 30 trait,
*Pets not scaling at all with the ranger’s equipment,
*Pets dying in aoe in 1 seconds, dead pets with 60 seconds disable,
*If your pets are dead, you lose about 30% of your dps, no other professions have their class specific mechanics working against them,
*Traits all over the place, some traits need to be combined,
*Minor trait now giving 25% stamina recovery instead of 50%, on a class that need to evade most damage. Thieves have the same problem, but they have stealth to counter it,
*Shoehorned into one role in dungeons
*Shoehorned into one role in WvW
*Hated by everyone because of bearbow

Vanthian.9267:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

They are the 1v1 duelist profession and if used properly can provide a fair bit of group support.

Sigh… just no. Mesmer is the premier duelist class. Thief is second. Then Engineer. Then it would be Ranger. Ranger is no where near as proficient as the previously three stated professions at dueling. There is a very wide gap between tiers actually. Mesmer,Thief>>>Engineer>>>>>>>>>Ranger>Every other profession.

Really? Multiple immobs and tons of evades say hi. Nail down a Mesmer or Thief and they melt like butter. Sorry, stealth only saves you if you can move while in it.

If you’re doing damage to a single target, no mater how much damage that happens to be, you still can’t compete with a strong AoE class. A zerg v. zerg fight involves AoEs getting target-capped. A target capped AoE will do far more damage than any single-target ability, and since zerg fights are about who can burn down the other guy more rapidly (while dealing with cc, movement, condi/removal, heals, etc) the overall dps of AoEs is greater than that of single target abilities.

To give you an idea of how disadvantaged rangers are, a staff/well necro has 7 ground-target AoE abilities available to them, all of which are pretty good.

If you get really good at sniping weak characters you can thin out the enemy a bit, but it will never do as much numerical damage as, for example, a staff/well necro. In addition, given the down-state mechanic getting a snipe-kill can take far more actual damage due to the possibility that you won’t be able to stomp.

Besides, if sniping worked then we would run killshot warriors instead of rangers because they have better burst dps. We don’t, because it doesn’t work. Having one or two focus the enemy commander can be nice against undisciplined forces, but it’s always better to have a shout warrior, well necro, etc.

So basically, as a ranger your role would be specialty and highly limited, and you’d be doing a job that other classes are simply better at. Other classes can stack as many as you want; If a zerg has 12-15 warriors, guardians, necros, or elementalists it’s not necessarily a bad thing, in fact it can be pretty good. 12-15 rangers is a wipe waiting to happen. For reference, this is assuming a standard 30-40 man zerg.

Finally, just to be clear, I’m not saying rangers are useless. I’m saying there is no way I know of to theorycraft them into a position superior to other classes in any role necessary to the success of a WvW zerg.

ya know the whole “whatever rangers can do, anyone else can do better” is just getting old and it is a big fat lie.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Really? Multiple immobs and tons of evades say hi. Nail down a Mesmer or Thief and they melt like butter. Sorry, stealth only saves you if you can move while in it.

All your immobilization mean nothing when they can clean them faster than you can apply them. Not to mention the fact they have extreme mobility over the Ranger. The Ranger has (if playing a condition spec that everyone is now a days) 2 evades on Sword and then 1 on Dagger but the other professions have teleports on their weapons, blocks, evades, and stealth to boot. Not to mention the fact that Mesmers/Engineers can buff themselves as well as, if not better than, a Guardian.

Ranger is okay, yes, but they are no where near the terms of the other three. If played on equal skill level: Mesmer>=Thief>Engineer>Ranger.

This topic is getting old.

My ranger kicks kitten in WvW, and it’s only level 20. I plan on getting it a commander tag soon.

My main is a Ranger…our kills are personal and specific. I grin whenever I see fear inflicted on the behavior of a target I have selected…once he realizes my bow has found him/her and will continue to rain deathly blows until they run away….or die.

Rangers are really easy to beat 1v1….. That being said I do play a Mesmer when I roam. I love it when a particular bad ranger does the really spammy pewpew skill and I reflect it all back when they don’t know how to skill cancel lol.

Jeknar.6184:

No, rangers are overpowered… Just sit back and watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaWcAek5_JE

Ah a classic, I hope Ajax is still stomping fools wherever he is now, great commander too. I noticed the video has 1337 dislikes now, thats 1337 mouth breathers jealous of Ajax’s leet skillz.

Awavian.1549:

Another note is that a traited ranger is really the only thing that can hit the inner cannons in Stonemist. I’m on a smaller server but I have seen several commanders call out for longbow rangers to hit those annoying cannons. I’ve thought in game about forming a party of entirely rangers when attacking SM to go around just focusing on that inner siege. Suffice to say that rangers do have their uses in World vs. World. Personally I like to think that everyone is jealous of the awesomeness that rangers provide but some people think them’s fightin words.

Or you could bring a balista.

I found another use of my ranger and one beginner lad from my guild.

The story: after 2 blobfight I recognised the enemy commander so I told the fellow LB ranger to only focus on him (I cannot be sure of course, but after a while I thing you can find the enemy commander…). Also any time my WH#4 was up I send the birds to attack the commander. We downed him a few times (not just the two of us obviously…)sadly no finishing, but the best thing was to imagine his reaction:

He spend the whole night with annoying piercing arrows constantly hitting him and furious blood-sparrows diving at him

Note: piercing arrows are really good. Hitting your primary target with acceptable single target damage and doing the same damage in AoE at the same time is good.
I don’t play LB but I see the point.

Lioka Qiao & Neko have pretty much won the thread and pointed exactly what’s wrong. The Ranger is a selfish class that does well in duels and does worse as the numbers scale up from there. On top of this, their entire trait design forces them to specialize too heavily in any one aspect of the class and that aspect is still primarily single target focused. Add on to this a poorly designed pet mechanic that simply can’t work in a typical WvW setting and a large portion of their utility skills being of only borderline use without significant trait investment and you have the failure that is the Ranger class.

The one hope for the class was the CDI thread and that was mismanaged from the word go that I wonder if any real valuable information can even be found in it. We’ll see by the end of summer as by then they should be able to roll out some of the things dicussed.

Things have improved greatly though recently. I used to find the Ranger the absolute most boring class to play because nearly every skill for every weapon was utility oriented and you spent all day auto attacking to deal damage. While this is still true for the most part, the 6/0/1/6/0 build feels much more interactive and it’s quite good for roaming. F2 skills finally work, now if they were just all worth using. Baby steps I suppose.

Anet need to go ahead and make longbow and short bow arrows pierce, even without the trait. Fix that and Ranger starts to look interesting in the Zerg.

Personally I do have a ranger, and yes I have played it in WvW, the good point is that they can reach most anything on a wall for coverage purposes. But overall the Ranger needs to be re-worked to better take advantage of the Ranger roll. since the patch it seems to me that the ranger traits have become more spread out that can be effectively used to build a strong character. When I think of ranger I think of range, therefore the use of bows, and guns. Not greatswords like every other class in the game. If you’re not using a GS you’re not putting out Max damage. As mentioned above piercing should be a natural for rangers, as well as velocity, and just maybe the skills to be close to using ice bows, since bows are our trademark, thats where the power should be.

5 or six rangers laying down a barrage at the same time in the middle of an enemy zerg as your heavies engage can be very effective. It akin to a mobile AC and who would not want those?

Dragonzhunter.8506:

well, I read all you’v write above, I didn’t saw any ranger complaining about the fact Ranger should be a fighter for distance, so this means ARENA NET must do something regard this problem, we Rangers don’t have atm any good build for Longbow or Shortbow, not in sPVP not in WvW. Someone said most rangers are coming from pve area where the Longbow did a good dps and provide a safe distance, and I could say I’m agree with him. But GW2 don’t means only PVE, and I made a Ranger for fighting with Bow (Longbow or Short … most of time should be Longbow, because this should be the Ranger main weapon) in WvW and sPVP. It is stupid because of ARENA NET Rangers are forced to play with Greatsword (c’mon we are warrior?) , Sword, usual melee weapon. I played a lot of time World of Warcraft (more then 5 years), Rift, Tera and I don’t meet anywere this stupidity that a Hunter/Ranger should play with another wepon then Bow for higher dps. In most of the MMO games Hunter/Ranger provide a lot of CC and range damage because this is at least theoreticaly their jobs , for melee are others classes like warr, guardian, thief, assasin, etc … 1 year ago if I remember we had at least a good build, based on condition damage with shortbow … now we don’t have nothing

You’ve got a very narrow notion of what a Ranger should be. Ranger is more than just ranged DPS. In fact, I think that’s half the problem with the class. Folks come from WoW or LotRO or whatever and think that it should be a pew pew pew class find out that spamming LB isn’t a thrilling experience.

Most people are just bad. That’s the honest truth.

Rangers can play a semi-decent niche role of AoE movement impairing conditions with Spike and Frost Trap, but I can’t recollect the last time I’ve seen a Tanky Condi Ranger run that. Traps work pretty well for group play, short cooldown aoes that slow enemy zerg movement and allow access to kills – works with the similar premise of how the Cripshot Ranger worked in GW1 GvG.

Doesn’t help that people are close minded either. On both facets of the spectrum.

Why are Rangers bad for zerging/gvg?

1. Your pet dies.
2. Your attacks deal bad damage, with low amounts of CC.
3. You’re most common boon is regeneration (also the weakest boon for group fighting)
4. You have almost no AoE of any consequence. Don’t get me started on traps. They are bad for group fighting.
5. Any support you could give comes in the form of instadead spirits or instadead pets.

Why are rangers good for zerging?

They aren’t, but healing spring is nice.

QFT:

A good commander will make use of a ranger if he really has to, but he will always ask them if they have an alt first.

Seen in map chat, a commander said “Rangers hit cannons” he immediately corrected himself and " *ranged"

Banzie.5248:

Rangers offer little to no group support or large AOE damage. The things they can do in those fields they are GREATLY outclassed in by other classes.

Rangers are by no means bad i’d say, But they are extremely single target DPS focused. The only time I could see one being used is as a peripheral player sniping lost necros and eles kiting the hammer train. Even then a thief outclasses them at that.

Not to mention other classes do that better.

I think rangers need a remake. They are not masters at what they should be and that is single target ranged DPS nuke. They need actual damage skills, rather than the crap they have now. Alot of the utility skills are meh.