Guild Wars 2

Well? Do you?
Cause it doesn’t seem so.
Do you even check the match ups and scores?
Do you care?

Do you intentionally match the lower population servers to higher ones?

Players are just as guilty of creating stacked servers.

^I don’t agree with your logic Roe. ArenaNet provides the environment. If they make 5 to 1 situations impossible, there won’t be any. If they don’t… there will be situations like those.

Roe.3679:

Players are just as guilty of creating stacked servers.

This. It’s next to impossible to get competitive match-ups nowadays because server populations are so skewed across the board.

Grav.3568:

Roe.3679:

Players are just as guilty of creating stacked servers.

This. It’s next to impossible to get competitive match-ups nowadays because server populations are so skewed across the board.

Are you serious? If Arena Net cared about imbalanced matchups, we would have seen changes and/or Dev posts reflecting that.

The blog post a while back that talked about giving more leverage to the outnumbered was great for PR, but where are the grouping tools? Where are the changes that make smaller groups more vital to success?

Please don’t tell me that your answer is the Ruins and Bloodlust stacks. This is no different than any other capture point, as it requires superior coverage to hold it.

At the end of the day, you cannot hold players responsible for how your game plays, bar any exploits or extreme misuse. This is why

1) You test things. Make sure that your game is going to play out the way that you intend it to as developers.

2) Don’t make server wars. Servers are going to have a natural imbalance. Everyone wants to be on the most active server and have the best in-game experience. Understand this and adjust accordingly.

3) Provide guilds incentives. Guilds, factions, etc. are a large part of any MMO community, and to minimize their efforts is to devalue your community. Guild in this game have nothing to do other than steamroll content and sit around doing nothing.

What I am saying is no different than what everyone has been saying for the last several months on this forum: listen to your community and don’t feed us a bunch of PR posts.

Even the most balanced matchmaking ever isn’t going to change the fact that players en masse are transferring from losing servers to winning ones.

These transfers are the source of the imbalance, not anything anet does.

Just like the Tequatl fight, where imbalanced pve has resulted in most servers giving up on the event in their home, players will flock o where the rewards are.

What anet should be doing is (1) making it more costly to transfer to winning servers (2) incentivizing players on losing servers to at least show up. #2 could be done by altering rewards, but it also could be done by altering maps.

nekretaal.6485:

Even the most balanced matchmaking ever isn’t going to change the fact that players en masse are transferring from losing servers to winning ones.

These transfers are the source of the imbalance, not anything anet does.

You’re not going back far enough when you’re finding the root cause of these things. Compare;

Servers are imbalanced because people transfer to stacked servers
Servers are imbalanced because people transfer to stacked servers because ANet makes it more beneficial to change to a winning server

Changing server isn’t a short term investment, and a raise in gem prices can’t be substantial enough to deter moving up. If anything, lower gem prices for moving to a lower tier server.

Rewards still need work in general.

Sarrs.4831:

nekretaal.6485:

Even the most balanced matchmaking ever isn’t going to change the fact that players en masse are transferring from losing servers to winning ones.

These transfers are the source of the imbalance, not anything anet does.

You’re not going back far enough when you’re finding the root cause of these things. Compare;

Servers are imbalanced because people transfer to stacked servers
Servers are imbalanced because people transfer to stacked servers because ANet makes it more beneficial to change to a winning server

Changing server isn’t a short term investment, and a raise in gem prices can’t be substantial enough to deter moving up. If anything, lower gem prices for moving to a lower tier server.

Rewards still need work in general.

i would even go further and lock t1 servers for transfers. they are so stacked atm its not even funny. none of them needs a single more guild or player. how dou guys think u can get the achievement when the pve players figure out that wvw grants rewards? the queues will be endless. where as t2 servers can get it quickly as we put up a huge fight and actually try to cap stuff. if we face t1 there is not much to cap for u as u own EVERYTHING. and the rest of u is stuck in queue...bye bye achievement, bye bye big shiny chest even though your blob server won the gold league.

Servers were stacked well before there were even decent rewards for WvW. And if you care about rewards, you should be PVEing anyway. Are there even any different rewards from winning gold league than winning bronze?

Servers are stacked because players transfer there, not because Anet forces people to do it. No one is forcing kitten continue to recruit even now. Only the players do that. They are responsible for their own actions.

T1 servers ^ no idea why it was censored.

Roe.3679:

Players are just as guilty of creating stacked servers.

Not true.

Individual players are making transfer decisions that make sense as an individual. Guilds are making transfer decision that make sense for the guild. On its own an individual or guild transfer is not enough to cause the stacking imbalance that is plaguing WvW.

The problem is that, because of the way WvW rewards are distributed and obtained, it makes sense for individuals and guilds to stack on a small number of servers (even guilds that transfer out of T1 would be far better off stacking on a couple of lower tier servers than spreading out evenly). This is why the announcement of greater rewards for League winners has lead directly to increase in stacking on the T1 servers – the people are just playing the game the way it is designed. (I can only assume Anet either didn’t think this through or don’t care about the impact of the stacking – either way it’s not a good look for Anet.)

TLDR: Server stacking is a direct result of the way WvW rewards are designed. Change the rewards and the stacking will change.

Again, servers were stacked months before there were even decent rewards for WvW. So I this whole reward argument is null and void.

Roe.3679:

Players are just as guilty of creating stacked servers.

Not true, Anet is absolutely at fault, they provided the means to allow it to happen and did nothing to stop it (months ago) when it was obvious what the outcome would be. It is their responsibility to watch and make sure these things do not happen, they failed to do this because transfers = money. Anets greed is the cause of the current imbalances, the higher Tiers should have been locked months ago to prevent the massive stacking.

Players used transfers because they were available to them, it is Anets responsibility to govern these things to ensure it doesn’t get out of hand.

As I’ve said countless times on this forum…. scoring needs to be adjusted to take into account population differences. A server should not win simply because they have more people.

Nuzt.7894:

Roe.3679:

Players are just as guilty of creating stacked servers.

Not true, Anet is absolutely at fault, they provided the means to allow it to happen and did nothing to stop it (months ago) when it was obvious what the outcome would be. It is their responsibility to watch and make sure these things do not happen, they failed to do this because transfers = money. Anets greed is the cause of the current imbalances, the higher Tiers should have been locked months ago to prevent the massive stacking.

Players used transfers because they were available to them, it is Anets responsibility to govern these things to ensure it doesn’t get out of hand.

Read what I wrote, it says just as guilty. Just as. I also believe, like you, that there are things that Anet could be doing to balance out populations. It would be better for the game if it happened. However, players are still stacking on T1 servers all on their own.

Now that I’m not looking at the bottom of Gold league, I’m perfectly happy in T4. I haven’t felt any Anet pressure to move, so I can only assume that that Anet “making” us move to T1 is just a player excuse for paying to win. So you can all rage at Anet all you like – they certainly deserve some of the blame – but the player base deserves the rest.

Nick.6972:

Well? Do you?
Cause it doesn’t seem so.
Do you even check the match ups and scores?
Do you care?

Do you intentionally match the lower population servers to higher ones?

No!
/endthread

Albane.3618:

Grav.3568:

It’s next to impossible to get competitive match-ups nowadays because server populations are so skewed across the board.

Are you serious? If Arena Net cared about imbalanced matchups, we would have seen changes and/or Dev posts reflecting that.

Of course I’m serious. And I agree with you too, Anet are certainly at fault for allowing it to happen. But the players who took advantage of the opportunity to transfer to T1 are equally kittened for actually going through with it.

Who’s the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

Bad matches create incentive for players to transfer, translating to gem sales.

Basics people, basics. There’s all the incentive in the world for them to make WvW terrible, because PvE has guesting and the only people transferring will be doing so for WvW.

Roe.3679:

Again, servers were stacked months before there were even decent rewards for WvW. So I this whole reward argument is null and void.

First sentence = correct.
Second sentence = incorrect.

The stacking on servers is a direct and natural consequence of the way personal WvW rewards increase when running with more people. This applies at both the map and the server level. This is the reason why server staking occurred in the first place – the latest rewards announcement simply aggravated the already existing problem.

It seems there is a major disconnect between the level of organisation Anet expect from the WvW community (i.e. that players will collectively organise themselves in ways that make WvW most enjoyable) and the level of organisation that actually exists (i.e. most players are casual WvW’ers as are most most guilds). Either that or Anet do appreciate the low level of WvW organisation overall but simply haven’t thought through the implications of that through when making changes.

The leagues seem to be predicated around the idea that if Anet provide good enough rewards for winning then the whole WvW community will get organised to take advantage of that. Unfortunately this overlooks the far simpler solution that the already organised will reap the benefits and the disorganized will find it easier to do something else (all those empty maps in unbalanced match-ups).

Anet clearly care about WvW but don’t seem to have realised that it is far easier to change the game than it is to change the people.

Does Anet care enough about WvW to start understanding the psychology of their player base and adapt WvW to work successfully with that ? They’re not look good on this one atm.

ykyk.2740:

Bad matches create incentive for players to transfer, translating to gem sales.

Basics people, basics. There’s all the incentive in the world for them to make WvW terrible, because PvE has guesting and the only people transferring will be doing so for WvW.

Maybe I’m just an optimist, but I don’t really think ANet’s so money-hungry that they’re willing to compromise their game’s quality just for the sake of money. It’s possible, but blame stupidity before malevolence.

Sarrs.4831:

ykyk.2740:

Bad matches create incentive for players to transfer, translating to gem sales.

Basics people, basics. There’s all the incentive in the world for them to make WvW terrible, because PvE has guesting and the only people transferring will be doing so for WvW.

Maybe I’m just an optimist, but I don’t really think ANet’s so money-hungry that they’re willing to compromise their game’s quality just for the sake of money. It’s possible, but blame stupidity before malevolence.

Well, I think the changes speak for themselves…

- Rank system
- Additional masteries
- Ruins + Bloodlust
- Leagues

The more active and populated your server is, the more you’re going to benefit from these changes. However, if you are on a less populated server, you are basically going to be playing WvW until you’re breathing through a paper bag.

While some players might have enjoyed the Ruins, few will argue that it moves us further away from population imbalance. If it is in this direction that they want to go, the biggest tool a player has is the amount of players on their server in regards to grinding WXP and reaping the rewards of the Leagues.

It’s sad how far this gametype has devolved since launch, and unless players start proactively voting with their wallets and their game time, the future of WvW looks more and more meek.