Guild Wars 2

Johje Holan.4607:

Caliban.3176:

Johje Holan.4607:

Isn’t VOTF one of the best guilds in the game? I’ve seen threads complimenting you all on your skill and I think you’ve been said to be one of the toughest guilds to fight in the game.

So… what your guild can or cannot do is not a good barometer to measure against.

Thanks for the compliment but that’s not the point. It’s about the numbers.

But you have to consider that your 30 guildies is not equal to 30 players. If there were an attacking force of equal skill it wouldn’t take as many.

I play WvW a lot too. I’ve been in NA T1 and fallen down to T5. And it may be different up there now but from what I remember it has always been easier to attack than to defend.

I’ll admit, I do like defending. That’s why I like this change. I believe it will make for more interesting fights and sieges.

More interesting? you mean just completely kitten fights …

PsychoticWaltz.1768:

Nokaru.7831:

shortcake.8659:

Seriously it’s not hard just don’t stand in the red circles and you’ll be fine

Exactly!

Too bad we can’t move rams.

You can catapult/treb, heck even ballistas can deal some measure of damage. You put something in the open, of course it’s going to get it.

I hear there are these things called red circles. I dont think you are supposed to stand in those….

was on a single superior (which i placed) AC just. I felt like a kittening god.

You can do more than 12 for that door. Quit being kitten and get at least 16.

shortcake.8659:

This seems like a real challenge, so I shall tell you guys how to not die to the arrow carts even after the buff

Seem like a real challenge: the gate is right in the middle of that circles.

Which means no ram.

Use a cata! Oh wait, i can’t protect those anymore from defenders trebbing them due to Swirling Winds changes and such.

Only way to do is get bet to my tower/keep, make my own treb and play treb wars.

Great…

Ps: if you’ve missed it, the problem is not giving a dmg boost, poison or extended range to ACs.
It’s the magnitude of the dmg boost. Any other perk doesn’t offer more than 5-10% dmg boost.
Siege bunker offers, for 75 pts, 5 (FIVE) % dmg reduction.

And with 15 pts you place a 80 kitten EIGHTY) % dmg boost?

Seriously.

Add in the ability to have 12 + of them on same gate….

wtfer.8153:

Compare those who are for that ac dmg buff and those who are against. Those who are for are completely clueless of how wvw works or worked till now. Please, stop smoking weed, this buff is utter bullkitten, wvw is basicly dead now.

I play more than enough to know that AC did pitiful damage and it needed a huge buff.

I would literaly stand in them just to get my adrenaline up before we attacked.

This is a great buff.

Aneu, in different thread you have written, you want to longer fights and now you are complaining here about arrow carts. i think it will prolongate fights, cause you will have to build more sieges like trebuchets and catas and protect them, you cant do easy ram rush now
no offense

Pavel.5192:

Aneu, in different thread you have written, you want to longer fights and now you are complaining here about arrow carts. i think it will prolongate fights, cause you will have to build more sieges like trebuchets and catas and protect them, you cant do easy ram rush now
no offense

Yes exactly: fights! Not siege wars.

Johje Holan.4607:

Caliban.3176:

Johje Holan.4607:

Isn’t VOTF one of the best guilds in the game? I’ve seen threads complimenting you all on your skill and I think you’ve been said to be one of the toughest guilds to fight in the game.

So… what your guild can or cannot do is not a good barometer to measure against.

Thanks for the compliment but that’s not the point. It’s about the numbers.

But you have to consider that your 30 guildies is not equal to 30 players. If there were an attacking force of equal skill it wouldn’t take as many.

I play WvW a lot too. I’ve been in NA T1 and fallen down to T5. And it may be different up there now but from what I remember it has always been easier to attack than to defend.

I’ll admit, I do like defending. That’s why I like this change. I believe it will make for more interesting fights and sieges.

I already said it was very hard before taking a T3 keep that was defended even with my guild. The thing is that keeps have indeed always been easy to cap (I believe many of us have seen the video of the going doing it solo). But if it is defended by people who know what they are doing (just a little bith) it is extremely harder and they just made it even easier for them. The balance is completely gone.

Undefended keep: easy to take, no challenge
Defended keep: Extremely hard to take, promotes massive blobbing

Pavel.5192:

Aneu, in different thread you have written, you want to longer fights and now you are complaining here about arrow carts. i think it will prolongate fights, cause you will have to build more sieges like trebuchets and catas and protect them, you cant do easy ram rush now
no offense

You don’t get longer fight by increasing AC damage. You would get longer fights by inceasing gate HP or letting siege deal less damage.

Nokaru.7831:

shortcake.8659:

This seems like a real challenge, so I shall tell you guys how to not die to the arrow carts even after the buff

I have made your diagram a bit more accurate.

That means that the server went over half the siege cap for a map. I don’t know why people do not learn strategic play. There are a lot of guides on standard siege placement. More advanced ones in the playbook of a few commanders that I know. There are trebuchets, catapults. Eles with focus do not work anymore.

PsychoticWaltz.1768:

Pavel.5192:

Aneu, in different thread you have written, you want to longer fights and now you are complaining here about arrow carts. i think it will prolongate fights, cause you will have to build more sieges like trebuchets and catas and protect them, you cant do easy ram rush now
no offense

Yes exactly: fights! Not siege wars.

Building siege is not fighting. These are different things Aneu is saying but they all work towards the same goal.

PsychoticWaltz.1768:

Yes exactly: fights! Not siege wars.

and you will fight between trebuchet and gate out of ac firing distance

I for one welcome our Arrow Cart overlords.

Arrowcarts were pathetic before this patch. You get a red circle with lots of time to dodge out of it, and if you don’t, nerf darts will rain from the sky, lightly bouncing off of you, a true threat against afk glass cannon thieves.

Of course, catapults will probably see even more usage now that rams on a gate will likely be screwed by a single arrowcart, and I would like to see said arrow cart have a reduction in damage against siege…

AndrewSX.3794:

shortcake.8659:

This seems like a real challenge, so I shall tell you guys how to not die to the arrow carts even after the buff

Seem like a real challenge: the gate is right in the middle of that circles.

Which means no ram.

Use a cata! Oh wait, i can’t protect those anymore from defenders trebbing them due to Swirling Winds changes and such.

Only way to do is get bet to my tower/keep, make my own treb and play treb wars.

Great…

Ps: if you’ve missed it, the problem is not giving a dmg boost, poison or extended range to ACs.
It’s the magnitude of the dmg boost. Any other perk doesn’t offer more than 5-10% dmg boost.
Siege bunker offers, for 75 pts, 5 (FIVE) % dmg reduction.

And with 15 pts you place a 80 kitten EIGHTY) % dmg boost?

Seriously.

Add in the ability to have 12 + of them on same gate….

I don’t think this is a perk, this is a passive increase to all AC damage.

Zumos.2056:

You don’t get longer fight by increasing AC damage. You would get longer fights by inceasing gate HP or letting siege deal less damage.

Well Zumos, while I generally agree with you on these changes, I would not increase gate HP. If the structure HP goes down then going out to defend becomes more important and you can no longer wait for the blob to come save you.

You could read Aneu’s post about it, I know several of your guildies have already.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Boredom-Reduction-Playstyle-Balance

Personally I think arrow carts should live up to their name a little better and be mobile, so I can push them around. It’s a real drag having to wait for people to come in range of it.

It’s a good change. It kills the mindless zombie zergs dead. You cannot just use the old “walk up to gate, plop down 3 rams, facerub, get tower” tactic anymore.

The way to take defended positions now is to preemptively treb them. And please don’t tell me “they can treb our trebs so impossible”. Just build another treb. It becomes a matter of supplies. And besides, if you manage to get a few hits in, sooner or later their ACs are going down. Also, you can use YOUR ACs for area denial when attacking.

Now it’s also more possible to use stealth attacks thanks to the 30 seconds delay. Scouts are more important.

It’s a move away from the mindless zerging and toward needing a more structured approach to assaulting a position. Like it should be. Cannot you see the point? If attacking a well defended position takes longer, moving around in a single huge zerg becomes impractical. Having the ability to split your forces and properly commit them to several positions becomes crucial.

A bunch of arrowcarts are already more then effective in stopping a zerg. All i see about the people who think ACs needed a buff is people who feel they should single-handedly be able to repel a 50man zerg. What are you people smoking?!

Half a dozen people on ACs was already a serious roadblock. And now, with the 80% dmg buff AND mastery, they count twice as hard.
Great, you anti-zergers got what you wanted. 3 ppl can defend against 50man zergs. Cheers. Now try playing in a tier where 6 arrowcarts on a gate or wall are the norm, instead of 1 lone defender.

Ruprect.7260:

AndrewSX.3794:

shortcake.8659:

This seems like a real challenge, so I shall tell you guys how to not die to the arrow carts even after the buff

Seem like a real challenge: the gate is right in the middle of that circles.

Which means no ram.

Use a cata! Oh wait, i can’t protect those anymore from defenders trebbing them due to Swirling Winds changes and such.

Only way to do is get bet to my tower/keep, make my own treb and play treb wars.

Great…

Ps: if you’ve missed it, the problem is not giving a dmg boost, poison or extended range to ACs.
It’s the magnitude of the dmg boost. Any other perk doesn’t offer more than 5-10% dmg boost.
Siege bunker offers, for 75 pts, 5 (FIVE) % dmg reduction.

And with 15 pts you place a 80 kitten EIGHTY) % dmg boost?

Seriously.

Add in the ability to have 12 + of them on same gate….

I don’t think this is a perk, this is a passive increase to all AC damage.

Yeah, my fault.

Got confused cause there is another dmg boost at 15 pts in the perk (addictive with the 80% buff. ok.)

Zumos.2056:

FractalChaos.6539:

Aneu.1748:

Draygo.9473:

Its designed to kill your zerg, make things defensible against zergs.

Maybe come up with new strategies?

also arrow carts 1-2-3-4 are deathtraps for operators against people that know what they are doing. There is nothing to stop an attacking force to simply pull the operators off the walls.

Then just re-build the arrowcarts and rinse repeat with your 2k x 12 damage per second with the -33% heal that the poison gives you thus making defence far more overpowered than attack.

Speaking as someone who, since launch, has been saying that attackers had every single advantage during a siege (and they did), I welcome this change. Those of us who like fighting over an objective, who like the push-and-pull of a protracted siege over the 30 second zerg v zerg routs in open field…well, it’s our turn now.

If you think offensive side has an advantage, then you’re probably so bad you think you always had a disadvantage. With the portal you can run in and out, you have the walls to stand on. You have an huge defensive advantage, if you are actually able to kill the enemy.

Who has the advantage in a siege…

1- Defender on the wall, who can be pulled or melted by AoE, or attacker on the ground who can ignore the pitiful (old) siege weaponry of the defenders?

2- Defenders on the wall, whose arrow carts and ballistas will vanish in the first few seconds of a siege under an apocalyptic downpour of meteor storms, arrows, grenades, engineer crates, Mesmer phantasms and necro marks, or the attackers outside who can destroy EVERY PIECE OF SIEGE GEAR MEANT TO DEFEND AGAINST THEM?

3- Defenders inside the keep, who cannot repair the gate because of the insane stacked AoE damage that will instakill them if they stay there for more than 3 seconds, or the attackers who can stand there on the rams with no siege to attack them (see #2).

Seriously, the ongoing tearing out of hairs over this change…it’s a thing of beauty.

Caliban.3176:

Zumos.2056:

You don’t get longer fight by increasing AC damage. You would get longer fights by inceasing gate HP or letting siege deal less damage.

Well Zumos, while I generally agree with you on these changes, I would not increase gate HP. If the structure HP goes down then going out to defend becomes more important and you can no longer wait for the blob to come save you.

You could read Aneu’s post about it, I know several of your guildies have already.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Boredom-Reduction-Playstyle-Balance

Wasn’t really a completely thought out idea, just some suggestions for IF they wanted to make capturing a keep harder. Your argument is right, didn’t thought about it that way.

Terrahero.9358:

A bunch of arrowcarts are already more then effective in stopping a zerg. All i see about the people who think ACs needed a buff is people who feel they should single-handedly be able to repel a 50man zerg. What are you people smoking?!

Half a dozen people on ACs was already a serious roadblock. And now, with the 80% dmg buff AND mastery, they count twice as hard.
Great, you anti-zergers got what you wanted. 3 ppl can defend against 50man zergs. Cheers. Now try playing in a tier where 6 arrowcarts on a gate or wall are the norm, instead of 1 lone defender.

Those 3 will be useless once intelligent people (not the stupid zerg that goes omg we can’t stand in this circle, we’re doomed!) start putting a catapult far from the arrow carts.

FractalChaos.6539:

Zumos.2056:

FractalChaos.6539:

Aneu.1748:

Draygo.9473:

Its designed to kill your zerg, make things defensible against zergs.

Maybe come up with new strategies?

also arrow carts 1-2-3-4 are deathtraps for operators against people that know what they are doing. There is nothing to stop an attacking force to simply pull the operators off the walls.

Then just re-build the arrowcarts and rinse repeat with your 2k x 12 damage per second with the -33% heal that the poison gives you thus making defence far more overpowered than attack.

Speaking as someone who, since launch, has been saying that attackers had every single advantage during a siege (and they did), I welcome this change. Those of us who like fighting over an objective, who like the push-and-pull of a protracted siege over the 30 second zerg v zerg routs in open field…well, it’s our turn now.

If you think offensive side has an advantage, then you’re probably so bad you think you always had a disadvantage. With the portal you can run in and out, you have the walls to stand on. You have an huge defensive advantage, if you are actually able to kill the enemy.

Who has the advantage in a siege…

1- Defender on the wall, who can be pulled or melted by AoE, or attacker on the ground who can ignore the pitiful (old) siege weaponry of the defenders?

2- Defenders on the wall, whose arrow carts and ballistas will vanish in the first few seconds of a siege under an apocalyptic downpour of meteor storms, arrows, grenades, engineer crates, Mesmer phantasms and necro marks, or the attackers outside who can destroy EVERY PIECE OF SIEGE GEAR MEANT TO DEFEND AGAINST THEM?

3- Defenders inside the keep, who cannot repair the gate because of the insane stacked AoE damage that will instakill them if they stay there for more than 3 seconds, or the attackers who can stand there on the rams with no siege to attack them (see #2).

Seriously, the ongoing tearing out of hairs over this change…it’s a thing of beauty.

Maybe going OUTSIDE of the wall instead of standing behind the gate. If you’re pushing the enemy, the wall is an advantage. You say the attackers have an advantage because you only want to use your AC to kill them? Learn to play and actual kill the enemy without siege only …

FractalChaos.6539:

Zumos.2056:

FractalChaos.6539:

Aneu.1748:

Draygo.9473:

Its designed to kill your zerg, make things defensible against zergs.

Maybe come up with new strategies?

also arrow carts 1-2-3-4 are deathtraps for operators against people that know what they are doing. There is nothing to stop an attacking force to simply pull the operators off the walls.

Then just re-build the arrowcarts and rinse repeat with your 2k x 12 damage per second with the -33% heal that the poison gives you thus making defence far more overpowered than attack.

Speaking as someone who, since launch, has been saying that attackers had every single advantage during a siege (and they did), I welcome this change. Those of us who like fighting over an objective, who like the push-and-pull of a protracted siege over the 30 second zerg v zerg routs in open field…well, it’s our turn now.

If you think offensive side has an advantage, then you’re probably so bad you think you always had a disadvantage. With the portal you can run in and out, you have the walls to stand on. You have an huge defensive advantage, if you are actually able to kill the enemy.

Who has the advantage in a siege…

1- Defender on the wall, who can be pulled or melted by AoE, or attacker on the ground who can ignore the pitiful (old) siege weaponry of the defenders?

2- Defenders on the wall, whose arrow carts and ballistas will vanish in the first few seconds of a siege under an apocalyptic downpour of meteor storms, arrows, grenades, engineer crates, Mesmer phantasms and necro marks, or the attackers outside who can destroy EVERY PIECE OF SIEGE GEAR MEANT TO DEFEND AGAINST THEM?

3- Defenders inside the keep, who cannot repair the gate because of the insane stacked AoE damage that will instakill them if they stay there for more than 3 seconds, or the attackers who can stand there on the rams with no siege to attack them (see #2).

Seriously, the ongoing tearing out of hairs over this change…it’s a thing of beauty.

Defenders have no advantage?

You can go in and out of the portal killing attackers and come back inside to safety and heal. There are plenty of smart placements for siege where you have an advantage (cliffside has awesome spots for example). You can buff up and use all your skills while the people down there are on rams or attacking the gate and have some stuff on cooldown. You can portalbomb and bait them. You can let them in and kill them in the choke and then repair the gate.

I’ll grant you this though. In an idiotzerg vs idiotzerg situation the attackers have the advantage. But should a game cater to idiottactics?

Terrahero.9358:

3 ppl can defend against 50man zergs. Cheers.

Exaggerate much?

FractalChaos.6539:

Zumos.2056:

FractalChaos.6539:

Aneu.1748:

Draygo.9473:

Its designed to kill your zerg, make things defensible against zergs.

Maybe come up with new strategies?

also arrow carts 1-2-3-4 are deathtraps for operators against people that know what they are doing. There is nothing to stop an attacking force to simply pull the operators off the walls.

Then just re-build the arrowcarts and rinse repeat with your 2k x 12 damage per second with the -33% heal that the poison gives you thus making defence far more overpowered than attack.

Speaking as someone who, since launch, has been saying that attackers had every single advantage during a siege (and they did), I welcome this change. Those of us who like fighting over an objective, who like the push-and-pull of a protracted siege over the 30 second zerg v zerg routs in open field…well, it’s our turn now.

If you think offensive side has an advantage, then you’re probably so bad you think you always had a disadvantage. With the portal you can run in and out, you have the walls to stand on. You have an huge defensive advantage, if you are actually able to kill the enemy.

Who has the advantage in a siege…

1- Defender on the wall, who can be pulled or melted by AoE, or attacker on the ground who can ignore the pitiful (old) siege weaponry of the defenders?

2- Defenders on the wall, whose arrow carts and ballistas will vanish in the first few seconds of a siege under an apocalyptic downpour of meteor storms, arrows, grenades, engineer crates, Mesmer phantasms and necro marks, or the attackers outside who can destroy EVERY PIECE OF SIEGE GEAR MEANT TO DEFEND AGAINST THEM?

3- Defenders inside the keep, who cannot repair the gate because of the insane stacked AoE damage that will instakill them if they stay there for more than 3 seconds, or the attackers who can stand there on the rams with no siege to attack them (see #2).

Seriously, the ongoing tearing out of hairs over this change…it’s a thing of beauty.

You need to L2Place Siege. This is where you fail. I can place ac’s so they cannot be hit by attackers. And it is even easier to hit ac that cannot be hit by attackers that can only hit the front of the gate.

Kolisch.4691:

Those 3 will be useless once intelligent people (not the stupid zerg that goes omg we can’t stand in this circle, we’re doomed!) start putting a catapult far from the arrow carts.

Lol, 15 points in the rank ability line and you have a huge range increase for Arrow Carts. Many good cata spots will become useless as well.

Kolisch.4691:

Terrahero.9358:

A bunch of arrowcarts are already more then effective in stopping a zerg. All i see about the people who think ACs needed a buff is people who feel they should single-handedly be able to repel a 50man zerg. What are you people smoking?!

Half a dozen people on ACs was already a serious roadblock. And now, with the 80% dmg buff AND mastery, they count twice as hard.
Great, you anti-zergers got what you wanted. 3 ppl can defend against 50man zergs. Cheers. Now try playing in a tier where 6 arrowcarts on a gate or wall are the norm, instead of 1 lone defender.

Those 3 will be useless once intelligent people (not the stupid zerg that goes omg we can’t stand in this circle, we’re doomed!) start putting a catapult far from the arrow carts.

Then you build a ballista. Do you even WvW????

One basic arrowcart can outkill 1 superior ram……..

Seriously.

Terrahero.9358:

Cheers. Now try playing in a tier where 6 arrowcarts on a gate or wall are the norm, instead of 1 lone defender.

I play in T1 EU against Vizunah. Trust me, I know everything about getting caught in a massive AC crossfire.

I stand my case, this buff is good. And it is good EXPLICITLY for the reason you state: 3 men on superior ACs can now stop a 50 man zerg dead in their tracks, IF the 50 man zerg is dumb. Of course, it just takes one smart guy in the zerg to go outside of AC range and build a catapult.

One of the biggest reason of WvW devolving into “zerg wars 2” is the efficiency of running around the map in a single huge zerg steamrolling everything and easily capping the whole map. This is due to lots of reasons, like the small size of the maps compared to the number of players, the increased amount of supplies you can carry around with more people etc. etc.

Stopping the monozerg from being so efficient is of paramount importance to let the game evolve from its current sad state.

Also, it’s not like ACs are an unbeatable tactic now. Just cata/treb them from outside their range, problem solved. Yeah, it takes more time. That’s the whole point. You cannot just join the zerg karma train and waltz in towers/keeps anymore. You need to think about how you’re going to take it. Setting up trebbing positions also means having to defend them from an enemy blitz, etc. It makes the game more tactical instead of this stupid benny-hill-like zerg perma-run-around we’ve been seeing so far.

Just give it at least a couple of weeks to let the meta evolve before crying doom.

Caliban.3176:

Kolisch.4691:

Those 3 will be useless once intelligent people (not the stupid zerg that goes omg we can’t stand in this circle, we’re doomed!) start putting a catapult far from the arrow carts.

Lol, 15 points in the rank ability line and you have a huge range increase for Arrow Carts. Many good cata spots will become useless as well.

Doesnt help if you cant see it to target it, unless your using zoom hacks. All those ACS placed on the floor by the supply huts are gonna be deadly now (and they were very deadly as it was already)

MagnusLL.8473:

Terrahero.9358:

Cheers. Now try playing in a tier where 6 arrowcarts on a gate or wall are the norm, instead of 1 lone defender.

I play in T1 EU against Vizunah. Trust me, I know everything about getting caught in a massive AC crossfire.

I stand my case, this buff is good. And it is good EXPLICITLY for the reason you state: 3 men on superior ACs can now stop a 50 man zerg dead in their tracks, IF the 50 man zerg is dumb. Of course, it just takes one smart guy in the zerg to go outside of AC range and build a catapult.

One of the biggest reason of WvW devolving into “zerg wars 2” is the efficiency of running around the map in a single huge zerg steamrolling everything and easily capping the whole map. This is due to lots of reasons, like the small size of the maps compared to the number of players, the increased amount of supplies you can carry around with more people etc. etc.

Stopping the monozerg from being so efficient is of paramount importance to let the game evolve from its current sad state.

Also, it’s not like ACs are an unbeatable tactic now. Just cata/treb them from outside their range, problem solved. Yeah, it takes more time. That’s the whole point. You cannot just join the zerg karma train and waltz in towers/keeps anymore. You need to think about how you’re going to take it. Setting up trebbing positions also means having to defend them from an enemy blitz, etc. It makes the game more tactical instead of this stupid benny-hill-like zerg perma-run-around we’ve been seeing so far.

Just give it at least a couple of weeks to let the meta evolve before crying doom.

So the smart guys build a cata outside of ac range. They build a ballista and destroy the cata. The attackers build a treb, lol, the defenders build a counter treb, being that it takes far less hits to take down the treb with the counter treb than it does for the attacking treb to take down a wall (we are no longer able to block treb shots) the defenders win again. How again is anyone in a high tier going to take a tower/keep lol.

Use trebs for countering ACs —> get counter trebbed. Good chance most keeps/towers will have 2 or more trebs in it for defense from now on, so they can treb you before you can really do anything. Especially since swirling got removed.

Keeps and Towers are harder to take now.
Rams are less viable, more cata and treb warfare.

I see nothing wrong here.

How dare they do something to slow down zergers WXP farming.

Ruprect.7260:

So the smart guys build a cata outside of ac range. They build a ballista and destroy the cata. The attackers build a treb, lol, the defenders build a counter treb, being that it takes far less hits to take down the treb with the counter treb than it does for the attacking treb to take down a wall (we are no longer able to block treb shots) the defenders win again. How again is anyone in a high tier going to take a tower/keep lol.

You don’t need to take down the walls, just the enemy ACs, THEN you plop down your rams.
And yes, they could rebuild more. That’s why supply-starving the enemy becomes (more) critical.

In other words, you can’t go and facerub down a structure anymore. You need to plan how you’re going to take it, using things like detaching a doliak sniping team to stop them from receiving more supplies while keeping YOUR supply flow intact so you can win the siege weapons’ arms race. This means you now need at least 3 separate fighting groups instead of the mono zerg. How is this a bad thing?

Mif.3471:

How dare they do something to slow down zergers WXP farming.

It hits zergs hard, this is true but it kills anything below 15 as well. So basically they made zerging a lot harder but destroy any other way to do something.

What I don’t understand is why they didn’t remove the rams in the same patch. Kinda silly to have tons of abundant siege laying around.

MagnusLL.8473:

Ruprect.7260:

So the smart guys build a cata outside of ac range. They build a ballista and destroy the cata. The attackers build a treb, lol, the defenders build a counter treb, being that it takes far less hits to take down the treb with the counter treb than it does for the attacking treb to take down a wall (we are no longer able to block treb shots) the defenders win again. How again is anyone in a high tier going to take a tower/keep lol.

You don’t need to take down the walls, just the enemy ACs, THEN you plop down your rams.
And yes, they could rebuild more. That’s why supply-starving the enemy becomes (more) critical.

In other words, you can’t go and facerub down a structure anymore. You need to plan how you’re going to take it, using things like detaching a doliak sniping team to stop them from receiving more supplies while keeping YOUR supply flow intact so you can win the siege weapons’ arms race. This means you now need at least 3 separate fighting groups instead of the mono zerg. How is this a bad thing?

wait…you do realize theres spots you can put acs where you cant aoe them or dragons tooth right? and they can STILL hit the gate to kill ALL SIEGE HITTING THE GATE AND THE PEOPLE?

MagnusLL.8473:

Ruprect.7260:

So the smart guys build a cata outside of ac range. They build a ballista and destroy the cata. The attackers build a treb, lol, the defenders build a counter treb, being that it takes far less hits to take down the treb with the counter treb than it does for the attacking treb to take down a wall (we are no longer able to block treb shots) the defenders win again. How again is anyone in a high tier going to take a tower/keep lol.

You don’t need to take down the walls, just the enemy ACs, THEN you plop down your rams.
And yes, they could rebuild more. That’s why supply-starving the enemy becomes (more) critical.

In other words, you can’t go and facerub down a structure anymore. You need to plan how you’re going to take it, using things like detaching a doliak sniping team to stop them from receiving more supplies while keeping YOUR supply flow intact so you can win the siege weapons’ arms race. This means you now need at least 3 separate fighting groups instead of the mono zerg. How is this a bad thing?

Magus, you are in T1 and can facerub a keep LOL.

We already have to starve supply. You know how to counter that. Go to your home BL Garrison that has 2k supply and WP back, there is no more contested WP’s apparently. T3 keep sieges already took hours lol. Now days maybe??? I guess it remains to be seen.

What really irks me is thay made a change like this ion the middle of the week when one of the other servers in our tier owns everything on all BL’s and is ticking over 550. Now it will be impossible for us to take anything back tonight.

Ok, i will say that again: this is BULLkitten. We just killed a 35 vizunah zerg with 3 arrow carts alone, we didn’t even have to go out and kill them, they all just melted in a few seconds.

Caliban.3176:

Mif.3471:

How dare they do something to slow down zergers WXP farming.

It hits zergs hard, this is true but it kills anything below 15 as well. So basically they made zerging a lot harder but destroy any other way to do something.

Less than 15 will be taking supply camps, hitting dolyaks, and eventually trying to ninja something as they always did.

The healing reduction was fine. The increased damage was ridiculous.

Nothing is right in WvW again. Posts complaining that the “under attack” notice at objectives now displays 30 seconds after it is first attacked just make it easier for zergs to dominate vis-a-vis posts complaining that stronger arrow carts make it impossible for anyone to take a keep or objective and thus destroy zergs….sheeze.

Maybe instead of complaining you should modify tactics. Because of the 30 second rule guards will have to be posted. Because of the powerful arrow carts guards may be able to slow a zerg down. Maybe more siege will be used to take keeps and towers. Field deployable arrow carts, especially at choke points, may throw the balance in some battles. Maybe more small groups trying to destroy siege will come into vogue. Who knows, just quit complaining and work it out.

Personally I hope the days of just blindly following a zerg around are limited.

wtfer.8153:

Ok, i will say that again: this is BULLkitten. We just killed a 35 vizunah zerg with 3 arrow carts alone, we didn’t even have to go out and kill them, they all just melted in a few seconds.

Maybe they shouldn’t of stood in the arrow field?

You can’t just stand there while any other siege weapon fires at you and expect to live.
Why should arrow carts be any different?

Aneu.1748:

Arenanet really screiwed up with this patch they are about to lose a huge amount of players.

Funny thing I feel that is exactly the opposite. Gw2 seems to gain a huge amount of players every patch.

wish.1027:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/07/how-guild-wars-2-plans-to-survive
“. . . player numbers continue to rise during what would usually be a post-launch slump.”

Sweet, thanks!

Caliban.3176:

Defenders have no advantage?

You can go in and out of the portal killing attackers and come back inside to safety and heal. There are plenty of smart placements for siege where you have an advantage (cliffside has awesome spots for example). You can buff up and use all your skills while the people down there are on rams or attacking the gate and have some stuff on cooldown. You can portalbomb and bait them. You can let them in and kill them in the choke and then repair the gate.

I’ll grant you this though. In an idiotzerg vs idiotzerg situation the attackers have the advantage. But should a game cater to idiottactics?

You can go in and out of the portal killing attackers and come back inside to safety and heal.
Assuming I don’t die the moment I poke my nose out (because of the 30 people standing right there who want to kill me), yes, I can do that. Doesn’t help my keep as attackers will still be taking down the door at range, and that player I killed will be insta-rezzed by his zerg. I had zero effect on the outcome and the keep will still fall.

There are plenty of smart placements for siege where you have an advantage (cliffside has awesome spots for example). Cliffside is well loved for this very reason. It’s easy to defend. It’s also the exception that proves the rule. There are 2 keeps, a garrison, and 3 other towers where standing on the walls is pretty much a death trap.

You can buff up and use all your skills while the people down there are on rams or attacking the gate and have some stuff on cooldown. It is impossible to attack anyone from the walls unless you stand on the very edge. Unfortunately, that means they can hit you, too (and use Scorpion Wire, Spectral Grasp, that wrench #5 that I love, or the Mesmer pull to drag you down and filet you). Where is the advantage to the defenders here? And what about the 15 friends behind the ram operators, all shooting at the same gate with pistols, bows, rifles, scepters and staves? Will they continue to attack the gate while I go out and butcher those manning the rams?

You can portalbomb and bait them.
How is that an advantage for the defenders again?

You can let them in and kill them in the choke and then repair the gate.
How is that an advantage for the defenders again? You’ve been breached. Your defense failed. Baiting a zerg and then killing it can be done at supply camps, open field, keeps, towers…it’s not specific to a siege defense scenario.

Here’s the bottom line; in a siege, 5 people in a fully fortified keep with ample siege weaponry and supplies SHOULD have a better than 50-50 chance of holding off 15 or 20 people. Siege weaponry is what’s known as a force multiplier; five average people with pocket knives versus 15 people with machetes are in deep trouble. Put those same 5 average people behind a concrete wall and give them each a gattling gun (ac) and those 15 people with machetes SHOULD melt and die. That’s how it’s supposed to be.

EDIT: I just noticed also that many of your suggestions involve leaving the safety of the keep, giving up the one REAL advantage (you know, the walls and gate?) which defenders are supposed to have. You’re sort of making my case for me.