Guild Wars 2

FractalChaos.6539:

I never said dislike for the patch was the province of other servers only. There’s a metric crapton of inept WvW players on SoR too (I’ve said the same about some of our commanders). If SoR players are “concerned about this change” than they’re as out of touch as the rest of the noobs.

Ah I see so those with a different opinion to you are ‘out of touch’. That says more about you than them.

Mortemp.6319:

if you had a clue about gear, you’d notice that I cannot

Mortemp.6319:

why, as a necromancer would I

There is a difference between “I cannot have” and “why would I have”.

Anyway, back on topic…

Taking best on when we will see a nerf to these arrow carts, before or after everyone quits WvW:

Less than a week or more than a week?

Quenta.2978:

Taking best on when we will see a nerf to these arrow carts, before or after everyone quits WvW:

Less than a week or more than a week?

See when ppl talk like that they do not win any friends nor do they even make a good point. If this game of WvW and GW2 is on such a knife edges as comments like this suggest then there is no hope for this game and Anet is done for.
Not to say some ppl would love to see this game fail but i dought you do nor dose any one who play WvW often too.

When some one start to talk that way your not going to convents any one who things differently from yours self because they know your being hyperbolic.

Simply put even if your point of view is right talking in such terms will cause ppl to turn on you.

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d like to shed some light on our thinking with this AC change as well as tell you all what we are doing right now to balance it.

Firstly, when siege weapons were originally created, they had the intent of being really good at some things and not so good at others. The arrow cart is intended to be the anti-personal siege weapon. It is intended that arrow carts are all about controlling an area through damage. If you remain in the area that is being hit by the arrow cart, you will die. You can however, move out of the space and/or find a new way to attack the intended target. That being said, they are not intended to be so good against other siege weapons and we are in the process of addressing that right now. We are also addressing their range when upgraded to be more in line with the range of ballistas.

Thank you for the response, no offence but this approach is wrong. You should be making all the changes to the siege at once not making 1 change making them OP then making us wait months for another change. There was no reason for making the change now

This piecemeal approach to changes has been used in other areas of the game and in every case it is a disaster, as a company you should have procedures to ensure a more holistic approach.

Dear Devon Arrowcarver,

I would like to give you my condolences on having the most unlucky name in the history of video game development.

If there’s one thing I learned from eve online it’s that you should never, ever, under any circumstances, play a game because it might be good one day.

DevonCarver.5370:

To be a little clearer. The fixes to arrow carts will be coming quickly. We are already putting those in and testing them. Those should bring them more in line with what we expect them to be.

I strongly recommend placing a limit on their ability to stack damage in a single area if that is possible on a technical level. The damage of 1-3 arrow carts hurts with current numbers and is pretty punishing. However 3+ arrow carts on a single location is completely imbalanced amounts of damage.

This has always been the imbalance with arrow carts, only it took more of them to achieve this before. I love their increased power in small doses and it finally makes them the threat they should be, but the massive stacking of them borks everything even with the old numbers.

That is of course separate from their damage vs siege. Their damage vs siege and vs player should be handled separately if possible.

FractalChaos.6539:

Chaba.5410:

Tearofsoul.9843:

DevonCarver.5370:

We are also addressing their range when upgraded to be more in line with the range of ballistas.

My dear dev,

Are you trolling on us or what?

Thanks

Geek time: historic Hwacha and Ballistas had roughly the same range. Not that the Hwacha arrow rockets could fire through walls or anything like that though.

Do not tempt me with the notion of Hwatchas!!!! I’ve been geeking out on those ever since I saw them build one on Mythbusters. =P

Haha! And in real life an arrow cart could not simply take down a ram because rams and other siege engines that got up close to walls and gates usually had covers over the top, like wet leather, to counter flaming arrows.

I think everyone should take things to the logical extreme in order to highlight the absurdity. Roll an engineer and use only Mortar in WvWvW. 20 Mortars chain firing #5 at the arrow carts. Oh the glory!

Nightingale.8364:

Thanks for finally replying. Even though your reply leaves me with more questions than answers its a good start.

Just a few points.

1) People were allready using ballistas and catas to destroy siege before the update. This is therefore not new tactic to people who play wvw for hours and hours everyday. A simple example would be the use of ac and ballistas to destroy the trebs in garrison (on the cliff) which treb the bay walls, or using ballistas on outer hills wall to clear the inner. There are many more examples of instances where siege is used to destroy other siege. Players didnt need this AC update to do that allready. Oh and moving out the way when siege is falling on our heads…did you really say that?

2) Having arrowcarts control an area through damage is fair enough. Having those arrowcarts dominate an area so much that nothing or no one can survive is not really what you are aiming for i believe. The balance should be players and siege holding a door/wall breach and not only a few players on siege.

3) Holism (Holistic) – the theory that certain wholes are to be regarded as greater than than the sum of their parts. While you are undergoing your review of siege please do not forget that the players of this game are an integral part of the whole. Without the players there is no game. Please consult more with us. There are many noteworthy guilds with extremely competant leaders who would be more than willing to help you test and finalise certain parts of updates.

While i personally am happy to see that you are going to undertake certain changes to the latest update quickly it still saddens me that you are develpoing the game to be more and more siege orientated. Keep a balance, let us fight.

Your statement is well thought out and written….it’s also a little short on common sense and is apparent you didn’t read much history. Fortifications were built and designed so that a few could defend against many, that was their main purpose. Making a WvW instance where the focus of tactics and siege being required to defend and take fortified structures makes complete sense.

AC’s shouldn’t dominate an area….you mean like zergs do? I mean really, you could swap the word zerg in for AC’s in the paragraph and would come out the same. They say magik is the counter to technology, quality is the counter to quantity and intelligence is the counter to stupidity. The game should ebb and flow just like any innovative arena. Warfare has changed countless times throughout history and yet so far not enough people have cried foul and just walked away from it to make the rest stop, they’ve just adapted new strategies.

Your statement about “many noteworthy guilds” would seem to indicate that only a few are worthy of being heard and the rest don’t matter, that we should all conform to their style of play since it would be their input only in the testing. Somehow I don’t think ANet will do something that foolish.

It would make far more sense for ANet to simply increase the numbers in SPvP like others have suggested so people who don’t want to “deal” with siege can go on to other PvP areas.

Zoel.9154:

If there’s one thing I learned from eve online it’s that you should never, ever, under any circumstances, play a game because it might be good one day.

HAHAHAH oh my god. All those months wasted.

Yeah, never again. The promise of good someday will not keep me coming back. Devon would do well to know that this isn’t MMO players first rodeo and when a developer starts saying things like “it will be better [in time]” that is pretty much code for pack it up, the developers are understaffed / don’t care / are out of touch.

How quickly this problem of Arrowcarts 2.0 gets addressed with speak volumes about the future.

Chaba.5410:

FractalChaos.6539:

Chaba.5410:

Tearofsoul.9843:

DevonCarver.5370:

We are also addressing their range when upgraded to be more in line with the range of ballistas.

My dear dev,

Are you trolling on us or what?

Thanks

Geek time: historic Hwacha and Ballistas had roughly the same range. Not that the Hwacha arrow rockets could fire through walls or anything like that though.

Do not tempt me with the notion of Hwatchas!!!! I’ve been geeking out on those ever since I saw them build one on Mythbusters. =P

Haha! And in real life an arrow cart could not simply take down a ram because rams and other siege engines that got up close to walls and gates usually had covers over the top, like wet leather, to counter flaming arrows.

Some of thoughts weapons would be fun to have i can see things like the tower would be a bit too much but other then that the things that cover your team from aoe like attks when moving in close would be fun in WvW.

Unrelated to your post.
Any way i think alot of every thing we see here is just because of the tone that ppl have been using. If these forums are spammed with one view point each time that view point is reported it become as if the need is greater and greater or that the problems is getting worst and worst for the item at hand. AC where not getting strong after the update but the talk was as if they where getting stronger by the min.
This is not how you talk about something or to point out something is wrong you must first show your view points and why then other comment on there view points. In effect the Arrowcart thread was bogged down by ppl shouting there view points and threading to effect “quit the game” because of it. I think we could of had a good talk about WvW and the roll of one person vs the roll of weapons in WvW but that may be lost for some time and we will not see Anet try any thing new in WvW for weapons for some time because of this.

Jski.6180:

Quenta.2978:

Taking best on when we will see a nerf to these arrow carts, before or after everyone quits WvW:

Less than a week or more than a week?

See when ppl talk like that they do not win any friends nor do they even make a good point. If this game of WvW and GW2 is on such a knife edges as comments like this suggest then there is no hope for this game and Anet is done for.
Not to say some ppl would love to see this game fail but i dought you do nor dose any one who play WvW often too.

When some one start to talk that way your not going to convents any one who things differently from yours self because they know your being hyperbolic.

Simply put even if your point of view is right talking in such terms will cause ppl to turn on you.

I don’t have any friends. That’s why I WvW. I purposely put myself in a situation where people turn on me and touch me in places I don’t like to be touched.

And to keep it on topic:

Arrow carts suck.

Hickeroar.9734:

FractalChaos.6539:

Silas.8630:

FractalChaos.6539:

I agree there’s a problem; 3 or 4 times already in this thread I’ve stated that my vote goes to making siege weapons invulnerable to AC fire (no more killing rams, catas, or even Golems with ACs) and rolling back the damage from its current 80% to 50%.

So most of the complaining in this tread is centered around the AC dmg dealt to siege,

WHAT??? HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

No it’s not. Most of the whining in this thread is about how ACs have ruined open field PvP and about how it’s now impossible to attack an objective without being slaughtered by overpowered arrow carts. I’ve seen some people kittening about how their rams and golems are being melted, but clearly not the majority.

The topic has shifted, but the two things that need to be addressed are 1) general (open field, etc) combat, and 2) the fact that putting up rams against a tower, or getting in a golem, are both nearly pointless now.

I really don’t even mind that ACs might kill players easier if they’re inside a tower shooting OUTward. But in the middle of a field? ACs have no place playing a big role in a field-fight. And having a ram wiped in seconds by ACs? That’s just stupid. At least if the ram was tough the players could rotate out….but as it stands there’s no point. You use a treb….and an arrow cart. Those are pretty much the only things that matter anymore.

I agree damage from AC’s to other siege should be dealt with, but the use and effectiveness in open field, not at all. History is filled with instances of mobile small “artillery”, even modern day there are pieces that can be towed by a relatively light vehicle, be in place and firing within minutes. AC’s are small and as Devon said, meant as Anti-Personnel siege. So their use in open field completely fits that description.

Harrish.8743:

The AC changes force you to adopt new strategies. You can’t just roll your zerg up to the front gates now, drop a few sup rams, and expect to take a keep/tower. Give it some time and people will come up with new ways to deal with AC’s and things will be fine (plus it sounds like Anet is already addressing the issue of AC damage against other siege, which is really the only thing broken about it right now).

Big +1

FractalChaos.6539:

Tearofsoul.9843:

The funny thing is NO ONE was complaining about AC pre-patch, I mean NO ONE.
So please, if it is working, DON’T try to “fix” it

No one was complaining about arrow carts specifically, very true. A metric crapload of people were complaining about how badly disadvantaged defenders were in a siege, however. So while no one may have asked for a specific buff to ACs, a lot of people sure wanted keep and tower defense to be about more than who fielded more people.

Amen. Just because nobody complained about an individual item doesn’t mean the developers won’t change it to help balance another area out.

Anet,

Public test server please.

If not, post proposed patch changes in advance so they could be discussed. And no, we are not asking for deadlines on it, and we realize somethings can’t be finished by a set date due to unforeseen problems. All that we want is a work order list so the community knows what’s coming down the pipe specifically and what’s being worked on and be given a chance to provide feedback.

Spvp is moving at a snail pace while WvW seems to like to throw caution to the wind. There’s a happy medium in there somewhere…and it involves the community.

Quenta.2978:

Jski.6180:

Quenta.2978:

Taking best on when we will see a nerf to these arrow carts, before or after everyone quits WvW:

Less than a week or more than a week?

See when ppl talk like that they do not win any friends nor do they even make a good point. If this game of WvW and GW2 is on such a knife edges as comments like this suggest then there is no hope for this game and Anet is done for.
Not to say some ppl would love to see this game fail but i dought you do nor dose any one who play WvW often too.

When some one start to talk that way your not going to convents any one who things differently from yours self because they know your being hyperbolic.

Simply put even if your point of view is right talking in such terms will cause ppl to turn on you.

I don’t have any friends. That’s why I WvW. I purposely put myself in a situation where people turn on me and touch me in places I don’t like to be touched.

And to keep it on topic:

Arrow carts suck.

Well i run with you a lot in WvW that not real friendship but still fun to do!
The topic has been resolved its all a waiting game at this point and an over all clean up job.

Lets think about how Arrow carts could be fixed to fill the counter living target roll. I find that Arrow carts should do less up frond dmg but should have an Arrow cart only condition dmg.

Wow… another patch, and more spectator mode fixes. Meanwhile, with reset looming…. the masses (those that haven’t just said screw it) prepare for the mad dash to build ACs faster then their opponents…

Tearofsoul.9843:

The funny thing is NO ONE was complaining about AC pre-patch, I mean NO ONE.

So please, if it is working, DON’T try to “fix” it

There was actually a thread complaining about how the old arrow carts were too OP earlier this year, let alone any comments saying that they were too weak, so you’re wrong on all counts.

I have read about 80% of the posts in this thread and find most of them have truth in it but are formulated in a very agressiv way. I think there is a golden middle ground here that can satisife most of the player base:

good arguments I found in this posts:

-Normal arrowcarts had little impact and needed a buff.
-Leg specialist had to go
-defending / delaying a siege was to difficult
-Superior arrowcarts were allready strong in numbers and would have been fine just by the added wxp skills dmg boost, a slight buff of around 8% dmg would achieve a similar effect to increase the pressure on enemy grps and siege equip without tipping the scale completely over
-Range increase is abit to much
-the new wxp skills give a player a big advantage over a new player
-Towers can still be taken but the gameplay has suffered

I think the meta can be changed in a positiv way by slight adjustments. Changes like 50% dmg nerfs and buffs are over the top and do not speak for a developing team. Double nerfs and buffs should not be done, because the impact is to drastic. People will find it harsh to adjust will either quit the game or completely change their specc:
examples :
- Haste
- Stealth and culling
- arrowcart dmg buff + wxp skils to boost dmg
- ride the lightning, cooldown and range

I am sure the comunity can think of alot other changes that had a big impact in the gameplay that had to be compensated for months after.

a public open testserver would certainly help with this issues and prevent the mess we are in.

and pls do some work on the glicko calculation. People have been stuck for way to long in the same match ups

Urrid.4593:

Zoel.9154:

If there’s one thing I learned from eve online it’s that you should never, ever, under any circumstances, play a game because it might be good one day.

HAHAHAH oh my god. All those months wasted.

Yeah, never again. The promise of good someday will not keep me coming back. Devon would do well to know that this isn’t MMO players first rodeo and when a developer starts saying things like “it will be better [in time]” that is pretty much code for pack it up, the developers are understaffed / don’t care / are out of touch.

How quickly this problem of Arrowcarts 2.0 gets addressed with speak volumes about the future.

oh god someone from tarnished coast agreed with me

game over man, game over.

I am not denying it, ACs took the fun out of the game and I am looking for other games now.

I agree with how fast they gona patch this up tells a lot about the future of this game. If next patch means end of this month, then I am long gone.

My warrior could run through a zerg and come out practicly unharmed to turn around and run in again. If I run through the fire of 5 superior ACs and I got the guts to turn around, I die.

I prefer a 100 man blob above a tower with 5 superior ACs anyday. That blob is easier to take down. Shame nobody leaves his tower anymore, like ever.

Anet, this has to be fixed quickly (like within a week). No one is going to wait around for months while you twiddle your thumbs wondering what to do.

I still don’t understand why this change ever had to be made. No one complained about arrow carts being weak. If it wasn’t broke, why fix it? You should have played wvw and seen what it was like attacking a gate against 12 arrow carts…..

You guys really need to play some WvW before you make more game-breaking changes…

So THIS is where everybody has been hiding!

I thought everybody was running away from ACs now, but here you all are.

Dear Anet,

This over the top increase to AC power has started to turn your top guilds away from WVW.

People are actively looking for a new game already which speaks volumes about the reaction to this very odd change in your company philosophy of “when it’s right” and “when it’s ready” and “doing things gradually”.

Very uncharacteristic.

If you are going to do an overhaul of siege in GW2, why not release it in a large patch and do it in a way that will expose a grande scheme to it and all tie in together nicely?

This is poor implementation.

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d like to shed some light on our thinking with this AC change as well as tell you all what we are doing right now to balance it.

Firstly, when siege weapons were originally created, they had the intent of being really good at some things and not so good at others. The arrow cart is intended to be the anti-personal siege weapon. It is intended that arrow carts are all about controlling an area through damage. If you remain in the area that is being hit by the arrow cart, you will die. You can however, move out of the space and/or find a new way to attack the intended target. That being said, they are not intended to be so good against other siege weapons and we are in the process of addressing that right now. We are also addressing their range when upgraded to be more in line with the range of ballistas.

There is few problems , corectly builded arrow cart inside the keep or tower – can’t be destroyed from outside. It was a huge problem before and terrible problem right now , rams and golems not effective enought because 5 players with correctly placed superior arrow carts (which can’t be destroyed) can stop 80 people zerg with rams and golems.
Secondary problem is a lot of players using zoom hack , it make arrow carts inside the keeps and tower undestroyable.

and third problem is big ammount of arrow carts can take down huge number of players , if gates or wall inside enemy object already down – you cant enter because of 6-8 arrow carts barrage fire.

you also need to think about next fixes : maximal limit of siege weapons inside objects (it should be very limited to make people place it smart and not everywhere its possible)
rams and golems should be immune to arrow cart fire , as i said : 5 superior arrow carts was able to destroy 10 golems before this patch , now 2-3 superior arrow carts can do it. 2 arrow carts able to take down 5 rams in few seconds , it make rams compleatly useless.

i hope you gonna read this post.

Would people stop suggesting that people are looking for a new game and insinuating this game will die due to a temporary issue.? This is a game without subscriptions, the rules are slightly different here haha.

There is literally no penalty for taking a break and then coming back once whatever change is bothering you is dealt with. Whereas in other games you’d have to be paying for nothing or go through the quit/resub hassle.

Thyophelis.8035:

I have read about 80% of the posts in this thread and find most of them have truth in it but are formulated in a very agressiv way. I think there is a golden middle ground here that can satisife most of the player base:

good arguments I found in this posts:

-Normal arrowcarts had little impact and needed a buff.
-Leg specialist had to go
-defending / delaying a siege was to difficult
-Superior arrowcarts were allready strong in numbers and would have been fine just by the added wxp skills dmg boost, a slight buff of around 8% dmg would achieve a similar effect to increase the pressure on enemy grps and siege equip without tipping the scale completely over
-Range increase is abit to much
-the new wxp skills give a player a big advantage over a new player
-Towers can still be taken but the gameplay has suffered

I think the meta can be changed in a positiv way by slight adjustments. Changes like 50% dmg nerfs and buffs are over the top and do not speak for a developing team. Double nerfs and buffs should not be done, because the impact is to drastic. People will find it harsh to adjust will either quit the game or completely change their specc:
examples :
- Haste
- Stealth and culling
- arrowcart dmg buff + wxp skils to boost dmg
- ride the lightning, cooldown and range

I am sure the comunity can think of alot other changes that had a big impact in the gameplay that had to be compensated for months after.

a public open testserver would certainly help with this issues and prevent the mess we are in.

and pls do some work on the glicko calculation. People have been stuck for way to long in the same match ups

This. Absolutely this.

To be completely honest, I think a lot of the anger posted here about arrow carts was actually just frustration with the apparent incompetence of the development team that was being vented inappropriately at the wrong target. The straw that broke the camel’s back and made it freak the kitten out, as it were. Buffs and nerfs are things that need to be undertaken with care, discretion, and moderation, but this dev team has repeatedly shown that they have no problem doubling/halving things in one fell swoop with little to no consideration given to the potential consequences.

Yes, the arrow carts needed a buff, and if it was done with consideration and subtlety, a few % points at a time, people would not have panicked like they did, but Anet nearly doubled their damage all at once with admittedly zero testing as to how that might actually affect gameplay. And I think that was why there was so much knee-jerk hostility here.

38 pages and counting, and a lot of these posts are looooong.

That is a VERY strong reaction to a patch.

I’m glad to see Devon has taken this information to his team and will start working on solutions.

Until then, I will be roaming far away from towers and working on an alt.

Give ACs real arrows, like only 10 skill activations possible and than you have to put in another 20 supply.

Like this you could still atleast take something with clever play.

ps.: I would rather see the 80% dmg boost reduced to 10% (+% from mastery), but if you don’t want to do this than implement a limitted use ASAP.

@dodforer. Sorry i was Under the impression that this was a game. I had a quick read through some of those dusty history books that i have. I saw no mention of asuran siege golems anywhere, and the only place where i can see arrowcarts firing at a faster rate than an uzi sub machine gun is in some wonderfully made (but make believe) chinese films…nope i dont need lessons on history.

Zergs dominate an area when you let them do it. A smaller, better skilled and tactically aware force can beat a mindless zerg anytime, and without the use of siege. This has been proven by many organised guilds in gw2 and also many times in history (for a recent example read Pegasus bridge). When something so obviously unbalanced is bought into the game it is only right that people question the reasons why this was done. If your enjoyment is to sit Inside towers for hours and wait for people to attack then you are probably extrememly happy with this update.

As for “many noteworthy guilds”, somehow you yourself have restricted that to only a few. Maybe i should have used “a zerg of guilds” for i mean just that. All points of view, should be added into the testing of new updates before they are unleashed upon us. That is common sense.

If balance was the issue, why not just static buff the arrowcarts along with the outmanned buff instead?

It’s kinda ridiculous, giving us the siege bunker ability (5% siege defense) and perma-buff arrowcarts with +80% damage.

Back to the ‘balance’ issue – i suggest that you reduce the base damage to like 25% and possibly increase another 15-20% along with the ‘outmanned buff’.

Makes sense no?

Sightblinder.4273:

If balance was the issue, why not just static buff the arrowcarts along with the outmanned buff instead?

It’s kinda ridiculous, giving us the siege bunker ability (5% siege defense) and perma-buff arrowcarts with +80% damage.

Back to the ‘balance’ issue – i suggest that you reduce the base damage to like 25% and possibly increase another 15-20% along with the ‘outmanned buff’.

Makes sense no?

I suggested about 25 pages ago that if small forces holding objectives against huge invading armies was the goal, the 80% buff should be tied to the outmanned buff. I think it’s high time for the outmanned buff to provide actual advantages that lead to better fights instead of useless kittene like 33% magic find.

How is this not hotfixed already?

Jimmybass.2159:

brandon.6735:

And here is why we need a public test server to test stuff out with the community. You guys always seem to put stuff out that is very weird and questionable in every patch and most of the time revert it back.

+1000

Want to avoid this mess ANet? Give us some public test servers for kitten’s sake!

Or at least play your own game so that you’ll know what’s really going on in it.

Everglow.2185:

How is this not hotfixed already?

Just throwing it out there, most of what the complaints are in this thread (particularly from VoTF) are not being “hotfixed”. The devs have in a nice and well worded way stated L2P. They are fixing the damage to siege from AC, which I agree with. The damage to siege probaby isn’t a huge priority either so I doubt they would bring out a hotfix specifically for this. They might but Id expect them to just do it during a maintenance/patch.

Last patch was an hour ago and we get a dungeon fix that wasn’t remotely needed.

Everglow.2185:

Last patch was an hour ago and we get a dungeon fix that wasn’t remotely needed.

Precisely. Its not high on the priority list. Although I think the dungeon is a big thing right now for the game overall so it would be a high(er) priority.

Well, rest night is over for me. It was one of the most boring resets I’ve ever played. Huge zone blobs running around, actively avoiding eachother, trying to find a non or poorly defended objective in hopes to burn the gate down before AC’s got manned or built.

sostronk.8167:

Everglow.2185:

How is this not hotfixed already?

Just throwing it out there, most of what the complaints are in this thread (particularly from VoTF) are not being “hotfixed”. The devs have in a nice and well worded way stated L2P. They are fixing the damage to siege from AC, which I agree with. The damage to siege probaby isn’t a huge priority either so I doubt they would bring out a hotfix specifically for this. They might but Id expect them to just do it during a maintenance/patch.

I think I can speak for the entire VcY by saying we support what VoTF says, the ACs damage got to be reverted. And we ain’t the only guild/person saying it. I just have to look in /m chat to see nobody is liking the change.

Drop it down from 80% boost to 30-40% and it should be fine, IMO. The change is okay with normal arrow carts but 2 superior ACs can completely shut down any kind of ram action, and I doubt the intent of the change was to make rams completely useless.

Also, $10 says next patch will introduce Ram and Cata skill trees with an active bubble ability that negates arrow cart damage. For extra tinfoil hat, WXP boosters will be available in the gem store.

Logged in for the first time since patch tonight. Guild voice chat is now littered with the terms “arrow cart(s)” and "treb(s) instead of the more entertaining “form up”, “flank”, “push”, “fall back”, “dance on their heads”.

I’ve never ever seen so many overlapping red circles at Hills. At least 50% of the arrow carts defenders deployed were in places that could not be hit by any other siege. There is virtually nowhere on the walls you are not in range of the AC traited additional range so getting the first gate down (an event that took almost 25 minutes) meant very little.

Eventually putting up a treb in the very corner of the outer wall had some success but it was soon taken down by another treb. We tried this for another 20 minutes.

Finally when we had exhausted their supply we just ran to the north gate where they hadn’t had the foresight to build any superior arrow carts. We had no supply either so we just facerubbed a re-enforced gate till it went down.

Hills lords room is joke though, and 20 minutes later we took hills.

I can’t believe anyone had any actual fun, defenders or attackers. Maybe the 12 people on arrow carts enjoyed it – the other 50+ people on both sides were mainly standing around doing nothing and for once it was a relief to have to do a supply run and be portalled back in just because it was something to do instead of watching the minority of people hitting the same button repeatedly on their siege weapons.

Buffing an item damage by 80% while adding WXP AC traits combined with siege might on the cheapest siege item in the game when superior arrow carts with siege might were already very strong was crazy. Not giving any thought to how ACs are abused virtually every day with positioning and zoom hacks and ignoring the fact they melt any other siege was insane. Failing to address the issue ACs already have with being able to shoot through walls, stone ceilings and anything else in their way is simply lazy development.

At the very least the range extension needs to go to the very top of the WXP trait line, the damage buff from the patch needs to go down to more like 25% damage increase and they should have limited (very limited) damage against other siege. I would also prioritize making sure arrow carts work like projectiles should – if there is something blocking the path between the point of departure and the point of arrival then it should be blocked.

Lastly you want to adjust siege I’m all for it unless the game turns in to siege wars. Which it basically was tonight.

I guess we were somewhat lucky though tonight that people were bugged and siege kept disappearing otherwise it would have been even more boring (if such a thing is possible).

Knowing Anet, they’d probably push out movable Arrow carts next patch for a measly sum of 100 gems each! Hooray!!!

The current state of arrow carts is worth an emergency patch. Literally, some programmer’s pager should be going off for him to get up and fix it now lol. I mean he says that it is in testing, but there is no way that they tested it before they changed arrowcarts in the first place.

timidobserver.7925:

The current state of arrow carts is worth an emergency patch. Literally, some programmer’s pager should be going off for him to get up and fix it now lol. I mean he says that it is in testing, but there is no way that they tested it before they changed arrowcarts in the first place.

You offering your services to fix it? From what i understand all the coding to changes things interacts with other coding so if they just go as fast as they can we may have Golme with arrow carts on there heads well the nerfed version of arrow carts.

MiLkZz.4789:

sostronk.8167:

Everglow.2185:

How is this not hotfixed already?

Just throwing it out there, most of what the complaints are in this thread (particularly from VoTF) are not being “hotfixed”. The devs have in a nice and well worded way stated L2P. They are fixing the damage to siege from AC, which I agree with. The damage to siege probaby isn’t a huge priority either so I doubt they would bring out a hotfix specifically for this. They might but Id expect them to just do it during a maintenance/patch.

I think I can speak for the entire VcY by saying we support what VoTF says, the ACs damage got to be reverted. And we ain’t the only guild/person saying it. I just have to look in /m chat to see nobody is liking the change.

I don’t really care what the VcY appointed community spokesman has to say at this stage. Not sure why your replying to me.

Lara Croft.5807:

my AC should have a better range – 3000 would be nice actually
and oh yeah before I forget – increase the target cap please to 250 …. just in case u know – lol I still luv my AC

doh! I forgot to mention following: ANet is it possible in the future to load explosive arrows as additional feature?

Umad bro?

Immobilizing arrows are the only way to go. Replace skill 1 with that, and we’ll all be happy

timidobserver.7925:

The current state of arrow carts is worth an emergency patch. Literally, some programmer’s pager should be going off for him to get up and fix it now lol. I mean he says that it is in testing, but there is no way that they tested it before they changed arrowcarts in the first place.

It’s hard to say what they are thinking, making professions less fun to play by nerfing them and completely unbalancing the game competitive mechanic are both VERY bad decisions considering the strong competition they will have to face from newer games by the end of the year.

Some of us are probably tired of playing the same 3 maps over and over again (I know I am) and adding on top of that the awkwardness of the changed mechanics…

I urge Anet to stop nerfing classes (boost useless skills instead) and offer new WvW environments and battlegrounds instead of changing the balance and offering a levelling system that changes the balance as well.

Xillllix.3485:

timidobserver.7925:

The current state of arrow carts is worth an emergency patch. Literally, some programmer’s pager should be going off for him to get up and fix it now lol. I mean he says that it is in testing, but there is no way that they tested it before they changed arrowcarts in the first place.

It’s hard to say what they are thinking, making professions less fun to play by nerfing them and completely unbalancing the game competitive mechanic are both VERY bad decisions considering the strong competition they will have to face from newer games by the end of the year.

Some of us are probably tired of playing the same 3 maps over and over again (I know I am) and adding on top of that the awkwardness of the changed mechanics…

I urge Anet to stop nerfing classes (boost useless skills instead) and offer new WvW environments and battlegrounds instead of changing the balance and offering a levelling system that changes the balance as well.

First this has nothing to do with arrowcarts and why would they add in a new map when the current maps for wvw have only been out for less then a full year. We have games that have seen 3 years + with out getting a new map to its stander of play. We are going to have 4 maps for a very long time i am not sure what else would even work for a 1v1v1 game.

I have noticed on this latest reset night, tonight(5-3-13) that Sanctum of Rall(SoR) has been using and abusing zoom hacks. SoR will build Arrow Carts(ACs) in the courtyard on a Tower/Keep. We(BlackGate server, BG) will kill those ACs on the wall with extreme ease, but they decide to zoom hack and place ACs on the courtyard floor(NOT on the wall,supply hut, throne room, etc.). Therefore they can now extend their zoom, and since ACs do not require line of sight, they are able to hit us and Jade Quarry(JQ) where where they normally would not be able to, due to the regular, STANDARD lin of sight restrictions.
I am not saying that JQ or even my own server, BG, does not do it. I’m sure there is that one person who “thinks” they are helping the server by hacking, but actually aren’t. I have just noticed that SoR have been using it.
With the extension of range( the first upgrade for 5 WvW Skill Points) it slightly encourages the ones who are able to hack, actually hack and increase zoom. Myself and others, I am sure, will GREATLY appreciate it if you could somehow fix these hacks or make it more difficult to do so. Or create an algorithm that can decipher who is using zoom hacks and who is not.
I understand that it may be a while until this happens, but it will make WvWvW more stable, clean, more fun and an overall better gaming experience.
Thank you very much,
Brisingr