Guild Wars 2

Hi everybody,

The Upcoming Automatic WvW Upgrades has many of us worried.

I hope the Guild Wars 2 Developer Teams will see this post and consider some points that I’d like to point out.

I’m a hard core WvW fan & look forward to the Automatic Upgrades, but would hope the changes will impact our Home World community by building morale instead of destroying it.

Without further chatter…please consider the following before implementing the Automatic WvW Upgrades that will change the game for many of the under dog worlds out there.

Home World – Automatic Upgrades & No Cost
EB World – Manual Upgrades & Cost Based (Gold / Karma / WvW Points)
Enemy Worlds – Manual Upgrades & Cost Based (Gold / Karma / WvW Points)

Reasoning behind implementing a mixed approach to Automatic & No Cost with the Current Manual & Cost Based structure.

1) Encourage Home World Defense.

Territory is maintained & rebuilt through defense/recapture.

Players that persistently defend/recap can hope that things will improve over time without additional sacrifice.

Automated Upgrades will help & reward players who defend/recap & don’t give up on their Home World.

2) Encourage Eternal Battles World Offense.

Territory is expanded through strategic offense.

Players need a good challenge to keep them interested in WvW.

Manual Upgrades allow players to dominate a map where all Worlds have equal footing.

Cost of Upgrades will help to bleed the economy of whatever currency is chosen (Gold / Karma / WvW Points)

3) Discourage Home World Domination by Enemies & Preserve Home World Community

Territory is open to capture, but protects the Home World community that lives there.

Players need to have hope that both enemies won’t constantly dominate their Home World.

It should be easy to rebuild your Home World after being wiped off the face of the earth…if not…why come back?

WvW communities often fall apart when their Home Word map is constantly being dominated by their enemies without respite.

Attracting new & old players to join WvW becomes difficult once its Home community has fallen apart.

Home Worlds are easily abandoned in favor of “Winning” servers.

The backbone to attacting new & old players to WvW is creating a place where a Home Community is allowed to thrive.

Players can still expand their territory & hope to keep it.

It should take a lot more work & “gold” to dominate an Enemy’s Home World.

Manual & Cost Based Upgrades still allow players to domminate an Enemy’s Home World, but in a way that seeks to preserve the community that lives there.

I sincerely hope the Guild Wars 2 Developers will see this post & consider the options presented here.

Cheers!
Diku

i see where u are coming from .
here my thoughts

i get that anet tried to support especially outmanned servers with the automated updates. i think on reste the home bls should always be all owned by your server and structures upgraded. so an outnumbering server cant just run up to hills or bay and take it before your guys even get there.
id be all for an option of automated repairs etc but the automated upgrades do take a lot of player control ansd and strategic game play away. yes outmanned servers had problems upgrading, i played on the outmanned servers most of the time as my guild loves zergbusting.
also trolls/spies wont be able to queue merchants anymore when not needed etc. but still the autom,ated upgrades will ad a certain timeer on it which is a very very very very bad thing for wvw.
we already have dragon timers and boss timers and temple timers in pve. now u are ading automated upgrades to wvw= a pve feature= people will know exactly when upgrades are finished even without yaks.

i dont know if anet really undestands the core of wvw.
if they would eotm would have never been made.
i think there are some core missunderstandings.

wvw player: we want a new map, we want changes, no updates ever. give us some love.

anet’s answer: eotm and bloodlust capping….

eotm map: wayyy way way way way too complex for a wvw map
way way way troo many npc to fight.
the keeps are meanigless
they are too big too complex and players keep getting lost
map is too vertical too much jumping and cliffs involved
shrines that give overpowered buff again a pve content no core player of wvw likes it.
shrines are terrible. npc bosses to kill in airplaine weird thing
collecting oil?1 o.0 this is wvw/pvp./ a battle field i dont want to collect stupid oil thats pve.

simple is more.
no weird cliffs or nps traps. less pve /mobs/bosses.
nice flat areas for massive battles,nice choke points.
waypoints always in keep(my opinion)

keeps can be reworked and little more complex yes but not like eotm random npc cannons and npc traps etc. rather have players control siege and traps.

keeps should have additional upgrades so a fully upgraded keep cant be taken in 2 min by golem rush.
have more chokepoints that cannot be zoomhacked or ele metorshowered
make walls safer for defenders so outnumbered servers actually have a chance to defend.

automated upgrades i fear will turn wvw into a new pve kinda event timer as in : “guys their garri is about to upgrade in 5 min lets do the golem rush now”

maybe have the borderland upgraded and ready for defense at reset so outnumbered servers have more chance to defend.

dont give pve rewards. make it a wvw reward zone only so no karma trains!

EotM is a strange map/game type for WvW. Removing the Karma and Pve rewards would likely result in killing the majority of the active participating population. Most of those players are there to level up and get the rewards, without that, they won’t run in circles endlessly for stuff that has little to no in game value.

I don’t have too much time logged there because it was introduced during my lengthy year + hiatus. I find the map more about Karma and loot farming than anything related to pvp.

Basically if you are looking for more pvp based content on a large scale, that map is the worst place to go. Most of the players get upset if keeps and towers are being defended well and they will actively push to move off for easier targets to take.

The pve aspects are somewhat out of place, but Anet has included this type of content in all of the WvW maps to date although it has been focused more in EotM as far as I can tell. Pve content is not a hindrance in EotM, but some added fluff that breaks up the monotony of zerg rolling the map in small doses.

The design of the EtoM map is a strange juxtaposition of anti zerg efforts from the narrow passages and long runs after death point of view. On the other hand, the objectives and NPC content largely favors groups and obviously the bigger the group the faster the rewards arrive. Even organization is largely based around the in-game chat features because you are bundled with mega server type groupings. It’s best to leave the serious WvW hat at home if you are rolling around in there.

EotM is always going to be a Karma train map with Pve content and reward minded players. It is necessary evil because it caters to the casual minded zerg type players that GW2 attracts.

If there was any change to it, I would like to see some more way points opened up for control. After getting mass feared off something, it is very discouraging to know that catching up with the zerg could be a long time due to map design, enemy presence, and the fact that they are always moving around at a high pace changing directions frequently.

These are HoT changes, so I dont think we will see them at work on the old alpine map where the south half of the map tends to get ignored.

I dont think the automatic updates are perfect but they are a definite improvement. The old system is very kitten the few ppl who know how wvw works and are willing to spend the effort on grunt work.

I cant believe any of the wvw players who have been active daily for months dont want auto upgrades.

Just have a good community on your server, and the cost for the upgrade will be share by all the community…. On my server scout don’t spend any gold for the upgrade or for the siege weapon…. If your community server is crap then this is another problem, you probably should leave and find another server…

@Selan

Thank you…you sound like a fellow WvW veteran. I never cared for EotM because it doesn’t help with the WvW points that WvW citizens fight for. I wouldn’t mind if EotM is made into a lure (has pve content & rewards) to the main WvW maps that should be kept simple where fighting/defending objectives is the core attraction.

My main point in this article is to make the Guild Wars 2 Developers aware that they may destroy the fragile WvW Home Communities that exist on Outmanned Worlds before it happens.

@Chefdiablo

WvW needs something to lure the unsuspecting PvE player into doing thankless work of defending in WvW. We gradually take away the rewards until you find yourself standing in paper tower trying to defend against 3-50 people (depending on time of day).

Once the gate or wall is breached…don’t expect reinforcements to arrive. The tower NPC are the only support you should need if 50 people are assaulting you.

@Synosius

They’re changing the maps when HoT releases & these Automated Upgrades will be active.

See this other post for details – Current WvW map to be deleted in HoT?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Current-WvW-map-to-be-deleted-in-HoT

You’re spot on about the old system needing people who know how it works, but that’s a good thing. Players have to use it strategicly to benefit from it.

I’m in favor of this New Automatic that will help strengthen your Home World map for you, but not for your enemy.

The enemy should be using the old system to Upgrade your Home World map.

@Sich

You’re totally correct. Most players will opt to change world when the WvW community on a server dies. Perhaps this is why they’re doing this (cash cow). It forces players to migrate to winning servers which then allows ANet to profit from people paying real money to get the required gems to transfer.

Please continue post your thoughts folks. Allowing your Enemy to get Automatic & Free Upgrades on your Home Map is a bad thing in my opinion.

Cheers!
Diku

I think youre right Sich but a positive community doesnt last indefinitely and I kind of see this as a stabilizing effect countering burn out. Theres highs and lows for every server. Thinking just cause the situation is bad now and it will nvr get better is the cause of all the transfers, overstacking, massive zergs and thusly the lack of small scale everyone thinks is so great.

after further thought, I think as op said, the home bl could use some advantage like no auto upgrades in enemy bl’s. Then again if EBG has a que would enemy players be reluctant to go to enemy bl’s because of the disadvantage? Would it result in less action on those maps? So prolly auto upgrades everywhere are best.

Anet needs to hurry up and give us HoT!

Sich.7103:

Just have a good community on your server, and the cost for the upgrade will be share by all the community…. On my server scout don’t spend any gold for the upgrade or for the siege weapon…. If your community server is crap then this is another problem, you probably should leave and find another server…

Sounds like you are t1/2? Or EU upper tiers? idk maybe EU lower can do that, but it doesn’t really happen in NA.

Instead we have severe stacking of some servers, and toxic communities. Even if you are in a good community, an entire server could move in and turn it upside down. Whatever,

That ‘suggestion’ does nothing to solve the problems.

op, youre suggesting that anet use the new upgrade system on home bl, and the old system everywhere else?

in an evenish match, servers already generally only upgrade “their” territory. i can see how providing disincentive to upgrade “enemy” territory is a good rubberband mechanic that would slightly help matches stay closer / more exciting… but the gold costs for upgrades are pure lame. players dont want to have to spend gold to play. it feels bad, it makes you wanna quit… it doesnt make you wanna keep playing but go take something else.

@Synosius

Keeping it simple…I’m bad at complex things.

Upgrades are Automatic & Free ===> Player’s Home World

Upgrades are Manual & Cost Gold ===> Eternal Battlegrounds

Upgrades are Manual & Cost Gold ===> Player’s Enemy Home Worlds

Player’s Home World has a chance to rebuild after being wiped, but Enemy can still take it & build on it.

Reasoning still remains:

1) Encourage Home World Defense.
2) Encourage Eternal Battles World Offense.
3) Discourage Home World Domination by Enemies & Preserve Home World Community

Cheers!
Diku

p.s.
Please post a reply if you agree or disagree that your fragile Home World Community could be destroyed by Automating the Upgrade Process for Enemies…that’s what I’m hoping to hear.

@insanemaniac

Yes…New Upgrade on Home BL & Old System everywhere else.

You’re totally right about even matches…that’s where the battle between worlds gets exciting.

Taken from the WvW player perspective.

If my Home World Map wipes…then Enemy needs to Manually do it & it will cost.

If Eternal Battle Ground wipes…then Enemy needs to Manualy do it & it will cost.

If my Enemy World Map wipes…then they should be given the same advantage as me…they Get Automatic & Free, but I should have to Manually do it & it will cost.

The Automatic & Free Upgrades should help resuscitate a Player’s Home World, but not allow your Enemy to Dominate you.

However, Manual & Cost Based Upgrades still allow players to domminate an Enemy’s Home World, but in a way that seeks to preserve the community that lives there.

Cheers!
Diku

This could help, to allow home to be upgraded for free, but ennemy bl will cost you gold and people to start the upgrade.

Your worried about being night capped super hard, but how does this affect prime time play?

Why does a boarder land map get special treatment just because it has your server name? All maps should be neutral, I think the OPs idea would more traction if auto upgrades in EBG and home bl but Im still not for it.

There also seems to be the assumption that populations are consistent through out the 24hrs. Heres a scenario…

Theres a world my server often faces that launches 30z around 8pm which is our weakest time. They sweep all the maps for a few hours then log out. However this server is weak for the previous 2hrs leading up to zerg time so we cap some stuff in all BLs to get some ppt before score takes a massive drop.

Im thinking if there were more reinforced gates in their way, they wouldnt blow through all maps so quickly and give our out manned forces more time to respond.

If you have small groups back capping after the zerg it makes them less effective. The upgrades start up again forcing the zerg to return again and again for little gain. The solution is to spread the zerg out to defend the towers.

Theres very few servers that win purely by night capping. Even if they do, they move up a tier, get crushed and fall back down. The ranks are shifting constantly and after typing this up I think even more this is will help stabilize them.

@Synosius

Primary concern here is that under dog World servers that do not have any leverage will have their Home World map filled with Fully Upgraded Enemy positions done Automatically & for Free.

Does not matter what time all this happens. The only solution for under dog servers that are not able to recap their Home World map that is filled with Fully Upgraded Enemy positions…is to wait for a weekly reset of the map.

WvW Home Community for that server will be hard pressed to encourage folks to play WvW when the only day they can live in glory is on reset day where they own their Home World map.

Agree with you that populations are not consistent through-out 24 hours.

Yeah…servers that have a good night capping team often rise up in tier, but later fall back down.

Night capping servers can’t field any territory expansion/defense effectively enough during prime time.

At the very least…

Hope they will Disable Automatic & Free Upgrades for Enemies on your Home World map.

Everything else can be switched to Automatic & Free Upgrades if it’s impossible to implement using the Old System with the New System as I’m suggesting in the first post.

Still believe that Enabling Automatic & Free Upgrades for Enemies on your Home World map will be bad for all Under Dog Home World Communities.

Having your Home World map Dominated by your enemies really sucks.

Having to wait for the Weekly Map Reset to get your stuff back gets old really fast.

Cheers!
Diku

p.s.
I consider each tier to have an Under Dog Home World. It’s the 3rd rank World of that tier.

Hi everybody,

Been reading a thread about the New WP system that will also be introduced with the Automated & Free Upgrades.

New waypoint system
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/New-waypoint-system

The Borderland maps are completely different as seen in:

Ready Up: Episode 30
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/642258148

Have to wait & see how this New WP system will also impact the flow of battle.

Just hoping it doesn’t make Home World Domination easier. All Under Dog Worlds in all the Tiers will suffer.

In a boxing match…the referee temporarily stops the fight if a fighter is knocked down to the canvas.

Anet needs to be the referee to allow a Player’s WvW Home World to recover from being Automatically Dominated by Enemy Worlds.

What do you think?

Diku

p.s.
Also, noticed that there’s going to be PvE style event that occurs every 3 hours. Winner gets a weapon that will attack your stronghold to help breach gates. Glad they didn’t say it would give a Tequatl style Chest. Imagine all the PvE players coming in every 3 hours just for this.

Diku.2546:

Hi everybody,

p.s.
Also, noticed that there’s going to be PvE style event that occurs every 3 hours. Winner gets a weapon that will attack your stronghold to help breach gates. Glad they didn’t say it would give a Tequatl style Chest. Imagine all the PvE players coming in every 3 hours just for this.

omg that will destroy wvw for good. a stupid chest a stupid pve mob for pve players to do something npc like which is pve. this is terrible and a stupid idea sorry anet but we dont want your pve karma trains in wvw. we wanna fight server vs server not server vs stupid ai npc pve mobs we dont want it we dont need it it has to go! we got stupid eotm for your pve crowd we dont want pve scrubs in wvw. this will push the entire wvw community away. we dont need npcs we dont want pve in wvw, we told u this for years! how long is anet going to ignore the fact that a true wvw player doesnt need shrines nor npc traps nore pve mobs!

selan.8354:

Diku.2546:

Hi everybody,

p.s.
Also, noticed that there’s going to be PvE style event that occurs every 3 hours. Winner gets a weapon that will attack your stronghold to help breach gates. Glad they didn’t say it would give a Tequatl style Chest. Imagine all the PvE players coming in every 3 hours just for this.

omg that will destroy wvw for good. a stupid chest a stupid pve mob for pve players to do something npc like which is pve. this is terrible and a stupid idea sorry anet but we dont want your pve karma trains in wvw. we wanna fight server vs server not server vs stupid ai npc pve mobs we dont want it we dont need it it has to go! we got stupid eotm for your pve crowd we dont want pve scrubs in wvw. this will push the entire wvw community away. we dont need npcs we dont want pve in wvw, we told u this for years! how long is anet going to ignore the fact that a true wvw player doesnt need shrines nor npc traps nore pve mobs!

Seems like they do listen to us.

Anet: what would you guys like to see?
Players: Less pve!
Anet: ok more pve, coming!

Offair.2563:

selan.8354:

Diku.2546:

Hi everybody,

p.s.
Also, noticed that there’s going to be PvE style event that occurs every 3 hours. Winner gets a weapon that will attack your stronghold to help breach gates. Glad they didn’t say it would give a Tequatl style Chest. Imagine all the PvE players coming in every 3 hours just for this.

omg that will destroy wvw for good. a stupid chest a stupid pve mob for pve players to do something npc like which is pve. this is terrible and a stupid idea sorry anet but we dont want your pve karma trains in wvw. we wanna fight server vs server not server vs stupid ai npc pve mobs we dont want it we dont need it it has to go! we got stupid eotm for your pve crowd we dont want pve scrubs in wvw. this will push the entire wvw community away. we dont need npcs we dont want pve in wvw, we told u this for years! how long is anet going to ignore the fact that a true wvw player doesnt need shrines nor npc traps nore pve mobs!

Seems like they do listen to us.

Anet: what would you guys like to see?
Players: Less pve!
Anet: ok more pve, coming!

hahaha so true. we even gave them a detailed list of things that were wrong with eotm and things that could improve it..

oh and also
spvp community: we hate skyhammer
anet:ok lets put skyhammer elements into wvw map for hot

selan.8354:

Diku.2546:

Hi everybody,

p.s.
Also, noticed that there’s going to be PvE style event that occurs every 3 hours. Winner gets a weapon that will attack your stronghold to help breach gates. Glad they didn’t say it would give a Tequatl style Chest. Imagine all the PvE players coming in every 3 hours just for this.

omg that will destroy wvw for good. a stupid chest a stupid pve mob for pve players to do something npc like which is pve. this is terrible and a stupid idea sorry anet but we dont want your pve karma trains in wvw. we wanna fight server vs server not server vs stupid ai npc pve mobs we dont want it we dont need it it has to go! we got stupid eotm for your pve crowd we dont want pve scrubs in wvw. this will push the entire wvw community away. we dont need npcs we dont want pve in wvw, we told u this for years! how long is anet going to ignore the fact that a true wvw player doesnt need shrines nor npc traps nore pve mobs!

They’re not putting in Chests. I was just glad they didn’t say it.

Agree on EotM not geared to WvW fans…I’m a hard core WvW player that plays daily, but I never play in EotM.

I felt it was a lure for PvE players to join the WvW maps.

After thinking about it.

Here’s the scenario that Under Dog Worlds will eventually face.

Stronger Enemies capture an Under Dog Home map.
Positions get Automatically Upgraded for Free.

Stronger Enemies now Defend Positions in Under Dog map.
Under Dog World Community at some point will throw in the towel & give up fighting.

Now remaining 2 Enemies will fight over Under Dog World map.

When it gets bad enough…Under Dog World will drop in Tier Rank & become the Stronger Enemy.

As a WvW player I sometimes look forward to moving down in Tier for this reason.

However, the Tier 8 Rank 3 World will live in perpetual Home World Domination with this Free & Automated Upgrade system.

Oh wait…this Under Dog World will have 1 day of glory…Weekly Reset…before being thrown back down into Domination.

Automatic Upgrades done for Free still will definately impact our fragile WvW ecosystem.

My original post that encourages a mixed approach has a flaw:

Upgrades are Automatic & Free ===> Player’s Home World

Upgrades are Manual & Cost Gold ===> Eternal Battlegrounds

Upgrades are Manual & Cost Gold ===> Player’s Enemy Home Worlds

In the above example. Stronger Enemies will use the saved Cost of Upgrading their Home World and apply it directly into Expanding their Territory into the easiest place to claim…which would be the Under Dog Home World.

Vicious cycle. Moving Up or Down in Tiers depends on breaking the morale of your Enemies.

Free Automatic Upgrades will further contribute in making WvW into a Bully based system. You beat down your Enemy until they give up.

Only difference is that it’s going to be Automatic & Free for the Bullies.

I’d like to revise my original post to say:

Upgrades are Automatic & Free ===> Player’s Home World

Upgrades are Manual & Cost Gold ===> Eternal Battlegrounds

Upgrades are Not Enabled ===> Player’s Enemy Home Worlds

Side effect…Karma Trains will be encouraged…

However, Under Dog Worlds can be guaranteed some relief on being able to recapture their Home World if they don’t give up & continue to fight.

Side effect…Tiers may stagnate with no upward or downward movement…

Argh!!!

Sorry Tier 8 Rank 3 World. You’ll have to stay Dominated.

Under Dog Players there…please move to a Winning World.

Diku

@Myself

I guess I’ll stick with my original post for now.

Upgrades are Automatic & Free ===> Player’s Home World

Upgrades are Manual & Cost Gold ===> Eternal Battlegrounds

Upgrades are Manual & Cost Gold ===> Player’s Enemy Home Worlds

The logic & reason still holds true.

Cheers!
Diku

Diku.2546:

snip

Sorry Tier 8 Rank 3 World. You’ll have to stay Dominated.

Under Dog Players there…please move to a Winning World.

Diku

-_-

that isn’t a solution either, things like that have lead to our WvW situation. So many things should have been done 2 years ago to discourage the severe server stacking we have now. At this point, there’s nothing that can be done except the very thing many of us didn’t want… dissolving servers. Except idc if they do anymore because my server community was smacked around badly in recent moves and I can’t really recognize it since it’s being undermined and others don’t even realize it is happening.

selan.8354:

Seems like they do listen to us.

Anet: what would you guys like to see?
Players: Less pve!
Anet: ok more pve, coming!

hahaha so true. we even gave them a detailed list of things that were wrong with eotm and things that could improve it..

oh and also
spvp community: we hate skyhammer
anet:ok lets put skyhammer elements into wvw map for hot

Chuckles…I agree with you.

I think the below screen caps you gave earlier…they’re gates into objectives.

These aren’t jumping puzzles though…they’re short cut routes in the new map.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Diku.2546:

snip

Sorry Tier 8 Rank 3 World. You’ll have to stay Dominated.

Under Dog Players there…please move to a Winning World.

Diku

-_-

that isn’t a solution either, things like that have lead to our WvW situation. So many things should have been done 2 years ago to discourage the severe server stacking we have now. At this point, there’s nothing that can be done except the very thing many of us didn’t want… dissolving servers. Except idc if they do anymore because my server community was smacked around badly in recent moves and I can’t really recognize it since it’s being undermined and others don’t even realize it is happening.

The whole system is based on a Bully structure. We can’t get around that.

Somebody is going to end up on the bottom.

The trick that ANet is trying to figure out is:

How do you keep the majority of folks happy in the pecking order where they exist.

I’d like to emphasize Majority…because Nobody wants to be at the bottom.

I’ve been in the bottom (Tier 8 Rank 3.)…and it’s not fun.

Hmm…I might be condemning myself to this very sad existence…now that I think of it.

Diku

Reading the below should make many WvW veterans pause and wonder.

Eredon Terrace Empty
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Eredon-Terrace-Empty

WvW is typically on the decline in the long term…in my opinion.

The fix that makes sense is to develop long term WvW communities.

Would having Rank Tier movement stagnate be the compromise in trying to develop a more stable & long term WvW community be acceptable?

Let’s face it…most hardcore WvW players play for the camaraderie…that’s the highest form of reward that comes from WvW.

Diku

p.s.
Hope ANet doesn’t cater to the PvE players that are motivated by other things that encourages instant gratification & does nothing to encourage folks to play once they are rewarded.

p.p.s.
In case you’re wondering…

Eredon Terrace

Currently is Tier 8 Rank 3.

Verified just now.

Offair.2563:

selan.8354:

Diku.2546:

Hi everybody,

p.s.
Also, noticed that there’s going to be PvE style event that occurs every 3 hours. Winner gets a weapon that will attack your stronghold to help breach gates. Glad they didn’t say it would give a Tequatl style Chest. Imagine all the PvE players coming in every 3 hours just for this.

omg that will destroy wvw for good. a stupid chest a stupid pve mob for pve players to do something npc like which is pve. this is terrible and a stupid idea sorry anet but we dont want your pve karma trains in wvw. we wanna fight server vs server not server vs stupid ai npc pve mobs we dont want it we dont need it it has to go! we got stupid eotm for your pve crowd we dont want pve scrubs in wvw. this will push the entire wvw community away. we dont need npcs we dont want pve in wvw, we told u this for years! how long is anet going to ignore the fact that a true wvw player doesnt need shrines nor npc traps nore pve mobs!

Seems like they do listen to us.

Anet: what would you guys like to see?
Players: Less pve!
Anet: ok more pve, coming!

More like:

Anet: What would you guys like to see?
Players: More PvP!
Anet: Ok, we will reduce the work to upgrade and maintain keeps so you can focus on PvP.
Players: OMG YOU WILL DESTROY WVW!!!

@Dawdler

I think most WvW Veterns (Rank 1000+) will agree to the following:

1) Like seeing the Home World map all painted in favor for the Home Team.

2) Like the camaraderie of sharing victories with other Home World citizens.

3) Earning useful WvW based attributes (Applied Fortitude & Strength) that shows your commitment to WvW.

I don’t particularly like PvP, but will do it for the above reasons.

It’s great that the work to upgrade keeps are done Automatically & Free, but the Developers need to careful not to implement a system that will negatively impact the WvW dynamics…which I feel this upcoming Automatic & Free Upgrades to ALL objectives will do.

I agree with you…they may destroy the things that makes WvW great if they are not careful.

Diku

selan.8354:

Offair.2563:

selan.8354:

Diku.2546:

Hi everybody,

p.s.
Also, noticed that there’s going to be PvE style event that occurs every 3 hours. Winner gets a weapon that will attack your stronghold to help breach gates. Glad they didn’t say it would give a Tequatl style Chest. Imagine all the PvE players coming in every 3 hours just for this.

omg that will destroy wvw for good. a stupid chest a stupid pve mob for pve players to do something npc like which is pve. this is terrible and a stupid idea sorry anet but we dont want your pve karma trains in wvw. we wanna fight server vs server not server vs stupid ai npc pve mobs we dont want it we dont need it it has to go! we got stupid eotm for your pve crowd we dont want pve scrubs in wvw. this will push the entire wvw community away. we dont need npcs we dont want pve in wvw, we told u this for years! how long is anet going to ignore the fact that a true wvw player doesnt need shrines nor npc traps nore pve mobs!

Seems like they do listen to us.

Anet: what would you guys like to see?
Players: Less pve!
Anet: ok more pve, coming!

hahaha so true. we even gave them a detailed list of things that were wrong with eotm and things that could improve it..

oh and also
spvp community: we hate skyhammer
anet:ok lets put skyhammer elements into wvw map for hot

I agree with you – skyhammer isn’t the only map that’s hated.

HoT will be a huge disappointment to those who know we were asked what we wanted and the exact opposite is happening in the expansion in many areas.

Diku.2546:

selan.8354:

Seems like they do listen to us.

Anet: what would you guys like to see?
Players: Less pve!
Anet: ok more pve, coming!

hahaha so true. we even gave them a detailed list of things that were wrong with eotm and things that could improve it..

oh and also
spvp community: we hate skyhammer
anet:ok lets put skyhammer elements into wvw map for hot

---

Chuckles…I agree with you.

I think the below screen caps you gave earlier…they’re gates into objectives.

These aren’t jumping puzzles though…they’re short cut routes in the new map.

For those with one eye, eye problems, dizziness issues and more, the addition of a jumping anything in WvW is the biggest mistake and seemingly patterned after such things as the holes in the ground that no one can really see no matter what camera angle you’re in – ahem Skyhammer.

Where did they put the fun in WvW?

Dunno, think they decided it was better to stress all players out and have massive blob mentality rule all.

Forget skill, it never was about skill.

Forget about multiple avenues of strategy.

Skill and strategy are about to be yesterday’s news, whatever there was of it in WvW will now be terminally ended.

Diku.2546:

@Dawdler

I think most WvW Veterns (Rank 1000+) will agree to the following:

1) Like seeing the Home World map all painted in favor for the Home Team.

2) Like the camaraderie of sharing victories with other Home World citizens.

3) Earning useful WvW based attributes (Applied Fortitude & Strength) that shows your commitment to WvW.

I don’t particularly like PvP, but will do it for the above reasons.

It’s great that the work to upgrade keeps are done Automatically & Free, but the Developers need to careful not to implement a system that will negatively impact the WvW dynamics…which I feel this upcoming Automatic & Free Upgrades to ALL objectives will do.

I agree with you…they may destroy the things that makes WvW great if they are not careful.

Diku

Home World all painted in the home teams color? No thanks. Home border shouldn’t be a raiding map to pillage for the enemy teams. It should be more evenly painted to have three way fighting going on all the time.

And what comes to Applied Fortitude and Streangth, me and a lot of WvW veterans I know think they were awkward from the beginning and shouldn’t have been there at all.

I’ve seen my share of defenders and scouts burn out because they kept upgrading and sieging keeps for the good of the server, getting nothing back. They ran there with inferior food and some didn’t have optimal builds they wanted because they had to save some gold for upgrades and stuff.

So far the automatic upgrade system sounds good. We might lost some interaction with WvW for not being able to choose what to upgrade next, but I think I need to see these changes live before I can judge them anymore than this.

selan.8354:

hahaha so true. we even gave them a detailed list of things that were wrong with eotm and things that could improve it..

oh and also
spvp community: we hate skyhammer
anet:ok lets put skyhammer elements into wvw map for hot

1st picture: Looks like a platform where you can build defensive siege into, a bit like in stonemist with the upper deck. It’s Asuran keep so it obviously looks like Asura tech.

2nd picture: I don’t see any jump puzzles here. Just some giant kitten boss thats hopefully not as tanky as grub. Oh and again, more asuran tech, this time bridges (hopefully you didn’t think those are jumping puzzles)

3rd picture: Platforms that shoot you up in the air to give you a shortcut in those shallow canyons. Hardly a jumping puzzle. It’s bit like Home border cliffs near Garrison, except you can jump them upwards if you have conquered some camp somewhere.

Paavotar.3971:

Home World all painted in the home teams color? No thanks. Home border shouldn’t be a raiding map to pillage for the enemy teams. It should be more evenly painted to have three way fighting going on all the time.

If you want this just go to eb….
It’s impossible for most of the server to spread on all map during the day and of course during night. It’s easier to focus on your home border and on our 1/3 on EB.
And if defending home border during offpeak become boring because you don’t have the WP, people will just leave…. No one want to run hours to try to defend. And no one will be able to spread on multiple map to protect the keep near the spawn.

With the new map and the new WP the only thing that will be interesting to defend will be the 1/3 on the home map and the 1/3 on eb…. All other thing will be for karma train…

Diku.2546:

selan.8354:

Diku.2546:

Hi everybody,

p.s.
Also, noticed that there’s going to be PvE style event that occurs every 3 hours. Winner gets a weapon that will attack your stronghold to help breach gates. Glad they didn’t say it would give a Tequatl style Chest. Imagine all the PvE players coming in every 3 hours just for this.

omg that will destroy wvw for good. a stupid chest a stupid pve mob for pve players to do something npc like which is pve. this is terrible and a stupid idea sorry anet but we dont want your pve karma trains in wvw. we wanna fight server vs server not server vs stupid ai npc pve mobs we dont want it we dont need it it has to go! we got stupid eotm for your pve crowd we dont want pve scrubs in wvw. this will push the entire wvw community away. we dont need npcs we dont want pve in wvw, we told u this for years! how long is anet going to ignore the fact that a true wvw player doesnt need shrines nor npc traps nore pve mobs!

They’re not putting in Chests. I was just glad they didn’t say it.

Agree on EotM not geared to WvW fans…I’m a hard core WvW player that plays daily, but I never play in EotM.

I felt it was a lure for PvE players to join the WvW maps.

yes same here. i love wvw and thats all i play i tried eotm but it just doesnt feel right and seems too pve oriented. id say less is more in wvw as the players themself already shape the world the way they need by building siege and upgrade etc. if i was to make a wvw map id allow the players to have even more control over keeps by costumizing the upgrades or even be able to build something with your guild or so…kinda like camelot unchained concept

Diku.2546:

@Dawdler

I think most WvW Veterns (Rank 1000+) will agree to the following:

1) Like seeing the Home World map all painted in favor for the Home Team.

2) Like the camaraderie of sharing victories with other Home World citizens.

3) Earning useful WvW based attributes (Applied Fortitude & Strength) that shows your commitment to WvW.

I don’t particularly like PvP, but will do it for the above reasons.

It’s great that the work to upgrade keeps are done Automatically & Free, but the Developers need to careful not to implement a system that will negatively impact the WvW dynamics…which I feel this upcoming Automatic & Free Upgrades to ALL objectives will do.

I agree with you…they may destroy the things that makes WvW great if they are not careful.

Diku

Why do you even bring up WvW ranks?

WvW veterans would agree to the fact that there was a time when there where no ranks and there where no masteries. Applied fortitude and strength didnt exist and the game wasnt worse off for that. In fact, WvW worked just fine even before the masteries. Hell, siege didnt do insane damage due to the +lolwtfpercentage increase to damage that masteries caused so I would even argue that the game was better when there where no WvW ranks!

I dont disagree with you on the fact that Anet should be more careful with implementations and take them by players first, testing fully so we dont have another situation like with… uhm… masteries and WvW ranks… that caused severe player/siege imbalance.

atheria.2837:

Diku.2546:

selan.8354:

Seems like they do listen to us.

Anet: what would you guys like to see?
Players: Less pve!
Anet: ok more pve, coming!

hahaha so true. we even gave them a detailed list of things that were wrong with eotm and things that could improve it..

oh and also
spvp community: we hate skyhammer
anet:ok lets put skyhammer elements into wvw map for hot

---

Chuckles…I agree with you.

I think the below screen caps you gave earlier…they’re gates into objectives.

These aren’t jumping puzzles though…they’re short cut routes in the new map.

For those with one eye, eye problems, dizziness issues and more, the addition of a jumping anything in WvW is the biggest mistake and seemingly patterned after such things as the holes in the ground that no one can really see no matter what camera angle you’re in – ahem Skyhammer.

Where did they put the fun in WvW?

Dunno, think they decided it was better to stress all players out and have massive blob mentality rule all.

Forget skill, it never was about skill.

Forget about multiple avenues of strategy.

Skill and strategy are about to be yesterday’s news, whatever there was of it in WvW will now be terminally ended.

i agree with you! why cant anet keep the new wvw maps simpler. i dont mind having a valley or anything or even tunnel etc. but the weird jumpings….that is just a massive no no for wvw.wvw is popular because not the envirnment dominates the map its the players who make wvw happen. this new map overpowers the players influence with jumping puzzle like paths …just like the lava running place and the pve traps and ai controled siege. all the traps should only be handled by players, not ai! no weird paths that kill players as they walk past it because the paths dissapear like in skyhammer or it turns into lava or anything. we dont want wvw to become a giant pve jumping maze.
just leave all that stuff out! thats why eotm faield in so many ways!

Diku.2546:

selan.8354:

Seems like they do listen to us.

Anet: what would you guys like to see?
Players: Less pve!
Anet: ok more pve, coming!

hahaha so true. we even gave them a detailed list of things that were wrong with eotm and things that could improve it..

oh and also
spvp community: we hate skyhammer
anet:ok lets put skyhammer elements into wvw map for hot

---

Chuckles…I agree with you.

I think the below screen caps you gave earlier…they’re gates into objectives.

These aren’t jumping puzzles though…they’re short cut routes in the new map.

The second picture is definitely a jumping thing – call it what you will but you must jump and that makes it impossible for many – those with depth preception problems, one eye, glaucoma, cataracts, macular degeneration, shall I go on?

The map in Skyhammer is hated because so many DO have such bad eyes and it’s totally not a game’s focus to care about people’s health – especially not their eyes. It’s not just the eyes, the camera angles are never “right” to be able to see those holes are open.

I am sorry the game will become one that was “the greatest game until…” if this keeps going – WvW is different than the rest of the game – and as such should be respected for what it is; a living community who asked that none of these things ever be brought to WvW.

And now here we get the back-hand of those who don’t care about this amazing-living community where there is some cooperation, a generous helping of leading, and was more fun, like many have said, when there weren’t all the “additions” that are now making it a “meta” joke to be in anything except the “approved” build and fight stance that your server demands or they exclude you and your different opinion.

As a community, we have asked time and again for WvW to be respected and this is what we get?

Why? What did we do wrong? Why punish the WvW community with doubtful and secretive changes that will add to an already complicated gaming environment? The stresses on WvW are many and steep now.

We love WvW – as one player said, EoTM? No way, it’s not WvW and EoTM pales in comparison.

Don’t add EoTM or PvP elements into WvW.

Please.

selan.8354:

atheria.2837:

Diku.2546:

selan.8354:

Seems like they do listen to us.

Anet: what would you guys like to see?
Players: Less pve!
Anet: ok more pve, coming!

hahaha so true. we even gave them a detailed list of things that were wrong with eotm and things that could improve it..

oh and also
spvp community: we hate skyhammer
anet:ok lets put skyhammer elements into wvw map for hot

---

Chuckles…I agree with you.

I think the below screen caps you gave earlier…they’re gates into objectives.

These aren’t jumping puzzles though…they’re short cut routes in the new map.

For those with one eye, eye problems, dizziness issues and more, the addition of a jumping anything in WvW is the biggest mistake and seemingly patterned after such things as the holes in the ground that no one can really see no matter what camera angle you’re in – ahem Skyhammer.

Where did they put the fun in WvW?

Dunno, think they decided it was better to stress all players out and have massive blob mentality rule all.

Forget skill, it never was about skill.

Forget about multiple avenues of strategy.

Skill and strategy are about to be yesterday’s news, whatever there was of it in WvW will now be terminally ended.

i agree with you! why cant anet keep the new wvw maps simpler. i dont mind having a valley or anything or even tunnel etc. but the weird jumpings….that is just a massive no no for wvw.wvw is popular because not the envirnment dominates the map its the players who make wvw happen. this new map overpowers the players influence with jumping puzzle like paths …just like the lava running place and the pve traps and ai controled siege. all the traps should only be handled by players, not ai! no weird paths that kill players as they walk past it because the paths dissapear like in skyhammer or it turns into lava or anything. we dont want wvw to become a giant pve jumping maze.
just leave all that stuff out! thats why eotm faield in so many ways!

im not a pve and im awfull at jumping puzles but im ok with those in gw2 SvS.
I am loving the new map becouse it recall the GVG maps from GW1, some of the players never did them and others are simple forgotten what made gvg so good in gw1.
Anet started to introduce the AB format to WvW, but now they are transforming the old GvG server wide into SvS, if u guys still missing my point of view here are the clarifications for those that skipped what made the gw1 gvg so good that now will be in full scale epicness(i hope so >:} )

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Burning_Isle

quote from wiki:
Several lava pools feature prominently on the map. While standing in this environment players are affected by the Crippled and Burning Conditions every three seconds.
Lesser Flame Sentinels, hostile to both teams, guard the shorter, lava-filled route between the two bases

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Nomad%27s_Isle

quote from wiki:
The quicksand slows your movement by 15% and gives you a loss of one Energy every time you attack or use a skill.
Two teleporters outside the quicksand to each base. These teleporters work in both directions and can be used by either team.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Isle_of_Meditation

quote from wiki:
Miasma adds five pips of health degeneration, cannot be removed and spreads between adjacent targets.
Capturing the Obelisk Flag Stand causes the statues on the bottom path to fire Fireballs at the other team.

This is what anet is recreating.
Those elements arent pve or eotm elements added to a pvp map, players that played alot gvg in gw will love the new maps IMHO.
EOTM failled becouse of the high rewards that made players just want to kill the champs, players noticed it was a good spot for chest farm, earn badges and farm wvw titles easy.

(edit)
I really hope that anet might give the tools and maps to server comunities select wich map should to aplies to their BL, like a guild could get the map due their prefered defensive and offensive tactics.

(edit2:)
World domination already exist in some tier, server is to much for lower ranks and to weak coverage to upper tiers.

@Atheria

I don’t like the jump pads and floating platforms either.

I’ll just pretend it’s the reverse of the shortcut path that I do when jumping down the cliff side near the NW & NE towers to get to the roads that leads to the W & E Keeps.

I’m not looking forward to falling off floating platforms as I’m trying to defend.

I totally understand about the jumping part…and yes…I also feel like the hardcore WvW player is left behind when it comes to getting what we want. We’re given things that PvE players want…a world of instant gratification & reward.

When the karma train ends…everybody leaves. When things are going to hell…only the hard core WvW players will continue to stand and fight against overwhelming odds.

Oh well…I just hope Under Dog Worlds don’t end up being constantly Dominated by the Free Automatic Upgrades to Enemy Position in their Home World.

@Paavotar

You’re joking that you like seeing your Alpine Home World map painted in 3 colors right?

Last I checked…most WvW players prefer seeing their Home World map fully dominated by their Team.

If they can…most WvW players would prefer seeing all 4 maps painted their Team Color.

In fact…when it does happen…they take screen caps and joyfully run around singing.

Hmmm…about Applied Fortitude & Strength…it’s a perk for hardcore WvW players…in my opinion.

If you compared 2 player…one that played Pure PvE vs Pure WvW.

Which player would be richer (Gold, Equipment, Materials)?

WvW players don’t have as much to show for playing as do PvE players in my opinion…so throw us a bone ok?

Hmmm…I’ve been a scout and solo camp capper.

I agree…it’s going to be nice that my camps get Automaticaly Upgraded for Free.

The work of a scout that caps camps & upgrades them with nobody helping can be thankless at times.

The Free Automatic Upgrades are a great idea.

Just Don’t Enable Free Automatic Upgrades for Enemies in a player’s Home World Map.

Hmmm…about masteries…once again…it’s a perk for hardcore WvW players…in my opinion.

Also…I believe these masteries provide an aspect that makes WvW unique.

WvW noobs soon learn how to use these perks by their WvW “Elders”…who hopefully will take them under their wings…which help people share & bond through a system that encourages seniority & chain of command…which should ultimately be building a sense of WvW community.

Come on…Luke Skywalker had Yoda…what’s not to love about masteries?

@Sich

Yes! Somebody understands…I think we’re going to end up with 4 EB style maps.

Currently…each Border Land map belongs to each World. This is the reason why most WvW players like seeing their Home World map painted with their Team color.

If you want to see a Tri-Color map…I’d encourage players to visit the EB map.

In the new map…they will all be Tri-Color map it seems.

I’m really gonna miss this aspect of the Alpine map.

Diku

@Aeolus

Oh wow…I remember these maps. Also, don’t forget we could hang out on these maps as our Guild Hall.

Chuckles

Thank you for the memories.

Diku

Diku.2546:

@Paavotar

You’re joking that you like seeing your Alpine Home World map painted in 3 colors right?

Last I checked…most WvW players prefer seeing their Home World map fully dominated by their Team.

If they can…most WvW players would prefer seeing all 4 maps painted their Team Color.

In fact…when it does happen…they take screen caps and joyfully run around singing.

Hmmm…about Applied Fortitude & Strength…it’s a perk for hardcore WvW players…in my opinion.

If you compared 2 player…one that played Pure PvE vs Pure WvW.

Which player would be richer (Gold, Equipment, Materials)?

WvW players don’t have as much to show for playing as do PvE players in my opinion…so throw us a bone ok?

Hmmm…I’ve been a scout and solo camp capper.

I agree…it’s going to be nice that my camps get Automaticaly Upgraded for Free.

The work of a scout that caps camps & upgrades them with nobody helping can be thankless at times.

The Free Automatic Upgrades are a great idea.

Just Don’t Enable Free Automatic Upgrades for Enemies in a player’s Home World Map.

Hmmm…about masteries…once again…it’s a perk for hardcore WvW players…in my opinion.

Also…I believe these masteries provide an aspect that makes WvW unique.

WvW noobs soon learn how to use these perks by their WvW “Elders”…who hopefully will take them under their wings…which help people share & bond through a system that encourages seniority & chain of command…which should ultimately be building a sense of WvW community.

Come on…Luke Skywalker had Yoda…what’s not to love about masteries?

Diku

No, I’m not joking that I rather see it more tri-colored than home team color only. I prefer it that way than what it is right now. Right now enemies come to border to plunder and pillage. They roll around with zerg and hitting couple keeps and towers. If they can take them with ease they keep going, if not they usually go somewhere else where they don’t have as much resistance.

So defenders have a few things to do: Make sure there is siege ready when that 40+ blob rolls over to check out and keep upgrading. And if you do well you will scare them away with couple AC’s with getting couple loot bags (those few unfortunate ones that don’t know how to dodge and were left there alone). Then the waiting game begins again.

The Applied Fortitude and Strength are hardly a perk for hardcore WvW players. Go to EotM for couple weeks or do regular WvW for couple months and you should have them. But if there is truly a player who is starting out and is interested about WvW is alienated from the other player base because they don’t have those buffs yet and that is their first goal in the rank up system before taking anything else. Also the Applied Fortitude and Strength favors the attackers way more than defenders.

If you want WvW vanity you should be asking ANet to lower the WvW Achievements to tolerable numbers or at least make the tiers have their own titles. You could also ask the devs to make WvW rank visible in Title if one so pleases. It’s silly to compare PvE and WvW like that anyway, those three things (Gold, Equipment, Materials) are one of the goals in playing PvE while playing WvW those things will only help you achieve your goals.

The whole WvW mastery system is a bit wonky anyways. In my opinion it should have set maximum points you can allocate between them so that you couldn’t be Jack of all trades. This way people would actually be specialized in something. I’m not quite sure why ANet wanted us to be able to max out everything on the first place.

On the complaints regarding possible health issues related to making some parts of the game more difficult for some… and please note that this is not intended to dismiss someone’s health issues.

There comes a point where, while you want to do what you can to ensure as many people as possible are able to play your game without hindrance, that you just cannot limit what you do because some may have issues. We’d never get anywhere with a game… Motion and effects may cause some seizures or make them sick, therefore you should just stand around with a bland scenery right? I would say we’d need Monochrome monitors again to limit the effects on people, yet those also made people sick as I recall? Somewhere you just have to draw the line and implement a feature or a change, because there is no possible way to satisfy everyone’s needs, much less everyone’s wants.

@Lunacy Solacio

Awww…you’re right.

But I still don’t like jumping around & running on platforms where you can fall off.

There’s lots of other areas that make you do that already…and I don’t play them because they’re like that…namely Fractals of the Mist.

Diku

@Paavotar

Ok…so you prefer all maps to be Tri-Colored. You’re wish will probably be granted in the upcoming new maps.

I prefer seeing my Home Map fly one Color.

Didn’t matter what Color the other maps turned into when things got bad, but it felt comforting when the Home Map was flying our Team’s Color.

“Colors” mean something to me. “Raising the Colors” in my opinion was one reason that kept me fighting past the time when other defenders gave up in our Home World Borderland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_the_Flag_on_Iwo_Jima

Now…the new maps will encourage that we all share the 4 maps equally.

The Automatic & Free Upgrades are good to implement on all Maps Except for Enemies in a Player’s Home World.

If a Player’s Home Team is unable to field adquate defense…would you agree that they typically can’t field an effective offense?

It’s going to be a nightmare to re-capture your own Home World once all positions become Fully Upgraded in favor of either or both your Enemies…if your Home Team doesn’t defend & later recapture quickly.

All Worlds will quickly field resources to re-capture their Home World right?

I never go to EotM. I prefer defending my Home World map, or fighting in the Enemy’s map so they don’t attack my Home World map.

As a Solo Camp Capper…I will testify that the Success or Failure of trying to capture a Fully Upgraded will hinge upon having this.

Most noob WvW player are not ready to do Solo Camp Capping in my opinion.

It’s definately a helpful perk to have when Solo Capping Fully Upgraded Camps in my opinion.

Why not make these 2 perks unlock only after you’ve reached WvW Rank 1000+ so noob WvW can focus on the other WvW Abilities.

In fact…why not make all WvW Abilities unlock in a certain order…based on your WvW Rank?

Make all noob WvW get Supply Master & Flame Ram 1st.

If we alienate a noob WvW player by not giving them certain things first…that’s just how it is…Luke Skywalker wasn’t allowed to access the skills of a Jedi Knight overnight. Yoda was the master for a reason.

If anything…make ALL the WvW Abilities only work in our WvW Universe…

Oh wait…they already do that…

WvW Abilities are our Jedi Knight skills!

Stop taking stuff away from the hard core WvW player that make us happy.

Diku

I rly like this thread and all the good discussion here.

What I was getting at before, saying the BLs should be neutral is like the tri colored map. I dislike the alpine map because its so big and takes along time to run to the south half. The enemies spawn closer to bay and hills if you have to start from citadel. They have Cheeserazer helping them get a foot hold. If you lose your wp in bay or hills its gonna stay paper for the rest of the day. It rly feels to me like the home BL is already a disadvantage to the defenders.

My suggestion is remove Cheeserazer from the enemy spawns. Add a similar event for the home team that starts in citadel if the garrison is captured where 20 golems spawn and march to the walls and break them open. If successful, when the champ razer reaches the inner circle he gives a free wp.

Yeah I know its more pve stuff no one rly wants but its just for your home garri. Im just brain storming here. The invading hoard might stick around for the challenge and everyone has a good fight or they might clear out pronto to avoid dying.

With manual upgrades from enemies in my home BL as it is now, what I see is scouts sticking around to que them but they are also able to call back the zerg. If upgrades were automatic thered be alot less reasons for enemies to stay besides the chance to kitten us.

when the enemy hoard rampages through and resets everything, the best thing for the underdog server to do is go to enemy BLs, que the event and hold the south half of their bl until they leave their map.

Diku.2546:

@Paavotar

Ok…so you prefer all maps to be Tri-Colored. You’re wish will probably be granted in the upcoming new maps.

I prefer seeing my Home Map fly one Color.

Didn’t matter what Color the other maps turned into when things got bad, but it felt comforting when the Home Map was flying our Team’s Color.

“Colors” mean something to me. “Raising the Colors” in my opinion was one reason that kept me fighting past the time when other defenders gave up in our Home World Borderland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_the_Flag_on_Iwo_Jima

when a map is all 1 color, it means the other 2 teams have 0 presence on it. it doesnt mean theyre there and they suck. it means there is no fight to be had. thats why i personally dont mind seeing a map in 3 colors, cuz the game mode is fundamentally failing if its one color, even if it feels good to whoever owns it.

@Synosius

An easier way to implement Home World advantage that I really believe will encourage the Home Defenders to fight even if the rest of the World is burning…

(Cover ears)

Leave All Enemy positions paper in a Player’s Home map. Only allow the Home Team to Upgrade positions in their own map.

(Let the cries of dismay of Karma Trains din loudly)

I fear the Free Automatic Upgrades of Enemy poistions on everyone’s Home World map will only encourage Home World map domination…which will kill each World’s incentive to fight back once they’re stuck into Home World Domination.

@Insanemaniac

Hmmm…I just prefer seeing my Home World map all 1 color. I just feel that being able to own your whole Home map is one of the biggest rewards to why I play WvW. The new maps from design will make all 4 maps Tri-Color.

If I wanted to play on a Tri-Color map…I went to EB.

But now…I have no choice…all 4 maps will be engineered to be Tri-Color.

To each his own…but you’ll get that in the upcoming new maps. So you’re lucky.

We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious one color. They stole it from us. Sneaky little WvW enemies. Wicked, tricksy, false!

Diku

Diku.2546:

@Insanemaniac

Hmmm…I just prefer seeing my map all 1 color. To each his own…but you’ll get that in the upcoming new maps. So you’re lucky.

We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious one color. They stole it from us. Sneaky little WvW enemies. Wicked, tricksy, false!

---

Diku

if i stay where i am, i think i wont even get to play the new maps. i expect longer queues than im willing to deal with. im prolly going back to low tiers where maps do end up staying 1 color for long times, where a lot of the friends that i started playing this game for reside.

@Insanemaniac

Hehehe…isn’t that why they invented EotM to fix the long queues problem?

Sorry to poke fun at this…you actually sound like a long term WvW veteran with your comment to drop to a lower Tier to join your Brothers & Sisters in Arms.

I hear you…and agree with you about WvW is about being able to play with friends.

Which my thing about “Colors” mean a great deal.

In the Military…they have a special ceremony to raise or case the “Colors”.

The “Colors” represent very deep connections.

Why shouldn’t WvW share some of these emotions when it comes to “Colors”?

Diku

p.s.
Still don’t want a Home World that’s engineered to be Tri-Color like EB…still believe it’s all mine…my precious.

it was the vision for eotm, yes, but its not what eotm is

@Insanemaniac

Misery loves company…so let me buy you a beer or whatever other poison that you prefer & let’s cry over EotM together.

Diku