Guild Wars 2

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Justine.6351:

You don’t just casually hit people with 15k CoR…

Average dmg for super glass CoR is ~10k.
Hits of 15-18k are with cruel repercussion trait AFTER an attack is negated.

I’m not saying it’s balanced or anything but let’s be accurate atleast. Alot of the times I’m getting big hammer dmg is simply because of upscaled and pver glass gear they probably use for loldungeons.

The more dmg a build does the more heavily – % dmg from protection, traits and even food cuts into it without even taking into consideration + toughness.

https://youtu.be/TOIaRDzeS9U

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJASmnvN2gS6JvQRVlbosryPUYW5IKYs8ElFNFiNMnpNtFIANwegJshA-TlSBABkfEAGUTwCXQAAeQAmpE85DBAe6IoU9Ha2f4KlfBAQAu5Nzm3MbezcezbezbezzNv5Nv5NvZpACcCA-w

If I had to estimate crits without cruel repercussions, from glass opponents to toughness/above average %dmg reduction stacking:

Hammer bolts fall between 2-5.5k
CoR falls between 8-12k
Phase Smash 4-6k
Drop the hammer 4-5k

This is running pure glass cannon myself.

https://youtu.be/U3E4zb5j4uM

You are losing out on a lot of Damage running full Zerkers, let’s crunch some numbers do two sets for each set ok.

CoR full zerker using your build that you linked against let’s say Glass.

(908*2.25*3177)1.01*1.07*1.07*1.05*1.12*2.24=18829576.5/2118=9334.8

Now here is a variant swapping out the zerker trinkets for Cav and swapping food and utility. ~16k Hp, 3k+ Armor 67% Crit Chance 251% Crit damage and over 2900 Power.

(908*2.25*2981)1.01*1.07*1.07*1.1*1.12*2.51=19797530.3/2118=10172.03

These are just with 1 Vulnerability which can vary and be higher or lower due to the trait and 10 stacks of might which can be higher or lower and with full Bloodlust stacks. Now let’s factor in let’s say you factored to just this equation the prof based damage effects for the 50% and 20% you get 18309.7 from my build. And that is not showing full buffs/debuffs. All off of 1 Skill on a 4 second CD.

Now if you factor in say running with 25 stacks of might and more Vulnerability which is more realistic especially in small group (this can be easily achieved with just two Revs roaming together)it gets out of hand real quick. And not even having to be Glassy.

So how is it so bad that 1 class building for absolutely no survivability has to blow 5 CDs on one 12 sec CD and the rest between 20-30 sec CDs. That has to be in Melee Range to land the Hit, that can be completely negated by Passives before the Hit even lands and can do anything while having 11-12k hp and only 2118 armor and let’s not forget to achieve higher number than the one CoR that class has to use 3 attacks combined to achieve similar numbers.

So there are classes out there that can do that with 1 cd and there are classes that can do that with 5+ CDs on multiple hits.

#Funfacts

Edit:
Fixed typos and had to correct modifier on the Rune of Strength from 1.1 to 1.05

How does dumping 200 power and 26% critchance for + 23% crit dmg give more dmg? The reason to run strength runes/ fried dumplings is for might/boon duration for yourself and allies. Taking hydromancy over force is even more laughable.

Hahahaha,

Scholar runes actually does less dmg multiplier then strength rune+sigil of force(which you failed to multiply in on “my dmg”).

You don’t even have cruel repercussions but add it in anyhow for some reason on your final dmg. And you get that math wrong as assassins presence is 10% but you somehow get 14% from it…
That math lols…

So according to the wiki on damage calculation we can express damage equation as the following:

Damage = ((Weapon strength * Power * Skill coefficient) * (Positive multipliers)) / (Armor * Negative multipliers)

So to check the math with first your build Justine. We assume it crits as with roiling mists you’ll be at 93% chance to crit and that it’s the final hit on CoR, for Elder focus we assume 6 boons as a minimum, full bloodlust and 10 might. We will also use the rather tanky “glass” armour of 2118 with no other defences.

CoR = ((1100*3177*2.25) x (1.07*1.07*1.05*1.05*1.50*1.20*(1.02*1.02*1.02*1.02*1.02*1.02)*2.24))/2118 = 21,276 with CR, 14,185 without CR.

Blaquefyres has left out a lot of multipliers for some reason, there’s either no force or strength rune multiplier nor assassin’s determination, a major multiplier in itself. Blaquefyres is however correct in assassin’s presence being a 10% multiplier and correctly applied it to the ferocity multiplier. I’m guessing the 1.01 is a typo as I can’t really see any reason it should be there unless compensating for ascended however it is much better to use the mean value of an ascended hammer 1100

Now for the other build. We assume a crit though roiling mists takes it only up to 67.5% chance and the same might and bloodlust as before with same armour target and boons.

CoR = ((1100*2981*2.25) x (1.07*1.07*1.10*1.20*(1.02*1.02*1.02*1.02*1.02*1.02)*2.486))/2118 = 14,659 and no CR so no need to stack that.

To be honest there’s not much between them outside of CR however Blackfyres build has a lot more toughness and the conditional 10% modifier of scholar may not always be there unlike strength. Then there’s the difference of crit chance, Justine’s build will crit 9/10 for insane damage no matter what, Blackfyres will only crit 2/3 times so you might get lucky and escape with just losing half your health.

It’s also worth noting both builds do make complete sense, adding toughness and funnelling it to ferocity both helps boost damage and allows for easier upkeep of scholar buff. The other build being glassy takes a reliable 5% modifier with strength.

You both might think why do the math again, surely we’ve already done that?

Well, tbh I wanted to test my suspicions on Windows 10 calculator and how it doesn’t do calculations with brackets properly. If you just copy pasta them into it you get a different answer than to doing the multipliers all separately, it’s not wildly different but it’s enough that I no longer trust it.

Edit: Forgot about hardening persistance adding to ferocity and the no doubt guardians adding toughness. I will adjust the value of ferocity to account for an average of +350 toughness = 35 more ferocity (1.6% more damage). Made about 100 damage difference.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Are you saying Maul doesn’t have a huge telegraph? Because I’m pretty sure it’s the most telegraphed weapon skill in the game. The ranger literally has a huge bear appear over his head, the only way that could be more telegraphed is if they replaced the bear with a big neon sign saying “dodge now!”

QFT Best thing I’ve read on the forum today.

@ apharma, I didn’t add in the 20% while target is under 50% or the 50% on blocked attacks for a reason as a baseline with minimal damage modifiers, the 1.01 is to account for only one stack of Vuln since there is no guarantee on how much bulb will be applied on average. And the 1.05 from The Rune of Strength.

I noticed your Crit damage multiplier was off, not sure if you factored your edit into the equation after you realized hardening persistence. But it adds out to 240 toughness on average at 6 upkeep, which would make my toughness 2032 which would then convert to 203.2 ferocity increase so the ferocity would then be at 1512.2 from 1309, then factor in Assassins Presence which I forgot initially in my builds damage calc. at 150 making it 1662.2 so then we divide that by 15, 1662.2/15=110.8 Crit damage then add that to the 150 baseline to achieve 260.8 Crit damage.

@ Justine I did the average might that would be had unless you can provide proof of you Solo having higher Might stacks ( I couldn’t see the numbers of stacks in your video while on my phone; Edit you averaged around 10 stacks Solo in fights in video, when other Rev was near you you had 15 so might stacks was accurate.) sure I will add those in and yes I missed the force sigil but let’s do the math with that added in.

(908*2.25*3177)1.01*1.07*1.07*1.05*1.05*1.12*2.24=18829576.5/2118=9,801.5

I would love to crunch the numbers with more accurate data like using the average amount of might your build does achieve, again mine was a rough comparison using average baseline numbers. Now if any of those change like the stacks of Vulnerability, the amount of might and so on and the other proc based Damage Modifiers shows how much more a Rev with CoR can do.

And I was showing that you don’t have to build Glassy and that precision is a waste of stats once you get over so high, especially when you can achieve more survivability with not much of a damage loss, your higher Crit will provide more over time damage yes since you should Crit more but my Crits will hit harder.

Edit to add in

My builds to correct my missing 10% Ferocity from Assassins Presence,

(908*2.25*2981)1.01*1.07*1.07*1.1*1.12*2.61=22644904.1614/2118=10691.64

BeepBoopBop.5403:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

XxsdgxX.8109:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Xenesis.6389:

Meh happened to me months ago, no one cared and it won’t change. Was down before I could react, basically only an auto skill would have saved me. Wasn’t even full zerk either.
Good luck with the balance crusade, I don’t see anet giving two figs about it.

Thief was within 1200 range of you unstealthed blew 4 long CDs to land two Hits, no different then most big hits that happen in WvW, it sucks when it happens but WvW will never be balanced, you will never see those numbers in PvP just because less stats and less damage modifiers. Fun fact you can get hit from a well setup maul for 18k in PvP the Ranger was super glass and died when sneezed on though, that was the biggest hit I have seen in PvP to date.

So far the classes I know that can land over 20k hits in WvW are Revenant CoR doesn’t need any setup just hit CoR and can easily achieve over 15k damage, Warrior with Gun Flame, Warrior with Arc Divider hits for over 15k easily, Ranger with Maul can hit for 20k with setup, and Thief running full Signet with setup on D/D with Berserker gear. I haven’t seen other classes achieve anything higher than these ones.

Huge difference is that Rev and Warrior have huge tells, AKA Telegraph on Rev and “Cast” animation on Gun Flame. The range only means kitten on blob fights, thieves just deal the damage from literally nowhere (stealth spam cancer).

Edit: And for Rev at least to deal above 15k+ crit against a glass build you pretty much need to have the stars aligned.

I play Rev in WvW it deals 15k easily when running Marauders gear with Cav trinkets with furious Sharpening Stone running Invo/Retribution/Herald. No stars align…

And you don’t know how Thieves achieve The 15k plus Hits here’s a hint no stealth spam, no Evade spam it is literally a Pure Berserker DA/CS/Tri Signet Dagger Dagger build, it uses all 4 signets to get 20 stacks of might, so using every single heal and utility which leaves nothing for if they fail or are spotted before they land the burst, since it’s not a one shot build and the only Stealth they get is CnD which means they don’t engage from stealth. It’s not an instant you’re dead they have to get close enought to CnD which means if a player cant react to two hits before the Backstab, it’s not the build that’s the issue, the thief would be seen from 1200+ range away.

Sorry every one of those classes is always visible to achieve their burst.

The game is unbalanced but there is a balance, you want to do huge numbers, you have to sacrifice survivability. Except for warrior because passives for days.

Yea you’re straight up lying about Rev damage in WvW.

I’m Zerk except 2 Cavalier trinks and Marauder weapons. 240% crit damage easily over 3100 power with full might. You don’t get 15k hits unless you hit Cruel Reprecussions with full stacks, full might, have every boon in the game on you (Elder’s Force) target less than 50% (Swift Termination on Devastation, which you don’t even take apparently…) and probably some vulnerability on target. Which is the stars aligning.

“Sacrifice survivability” uhhhh the signet build can just run d/p as the offhand set and stealth on approach/running away. Other full zerk glass cannon builds on other classes (except maybe mesmer) just lay down and die.

Thief mains lol

You are the 1 who is lying about revs.

check the screenshot 21k CoR thats with only 25 bloodstacks + solo might no group.

seems like u never seen berserker does 15k+ gunflame or 12k~20k hammer rev solo with way more hp and armor.

May want to directly upload the screenshot in full size as it’s currently only viewable as a thumbnail, btw.

What you guys always forget in these threads: It’s not just one class (and build) who can do this damage: It’s ‘all’ of them. You always get tangeled up with one specific class which is usually thief and which usually is only one set what you don’t know as most of you don’t play thief.
The base is still true though: The damage in this game is too high and the balance between sustain and damage is off.
My offer at anet still stands: Get a balance team of 9 pros (1 each class) and I will buy a new account/the equivalent of HoT in gems once their first patch is in. If anet carries on to copy and paste what the players are saying this game won’t resurrect. The worst mistake they made was not caring about balance for now nearly 2 years.

I would much rather full glass cannon power players than full bunker condi players.

At least the glass cannon build has significant counter-play built in with the fact that they will die when you sneeze on them