Guild Wars 2

lin.2814:

Blacktide guilds dont have motivation.
Play for that ? For server score ? For killing french pugs?

Most players tired wipe them.This was interesting first two weeks.
They are continue playing but just for fun.

I hope that next WwWwW patch will correct this situation. Sorry for my bad English.

This just in: Winner-team joining server jumpers whine about lack of motivation.

Xaoc joined too? I do not understand your sarcasm sry.

Angelyne.2936:

All that congrats between RG and MoS is really funny because when they write about tactic and good game, i (and a lot of ppl when we we talk about it) read “good use of culling” and “pointless zerg on small bands” … indeed, great game.

What happen to RG yesterday evening (GMT+1) ? your gameplay was really poor, wipe 2 times in a row and vanished from the map right after, do the patch about culling (less ally, more foes visible) hurts you that much ? … i guess, since that’s the central point of all your “tactics”.

we were really low on numbers yesterday, not more than 20
and yes, the culling patch hurts us really bad; we wern’t able to see our people and only 30 of the enemy people. coordination was nearly not possible
it was no point running with 20 people against a zerg with 50 or more with the new mechanics (we only saw 30, but got hit from “ghosts”, so we guessed it were more).
we also wiped the zerg at some points, but only when we had the surprise effect and enough time to load the zerg properly. on the open field, no chance to win with this mechanic

The culling patch seems to have restored some older bugs.
People not seeing anyone, lag, etc etc.

On top of that, people sometimes can’t see leaders of warbands, making it a pain to follow them.

I’m curious about the february patch, but itll likely be too little too late, i’m currently working on my 2nd legendary just to get the feel i’m actually working towards something/achieving something.
While i still have fun in WvW, the whole “Yeah! Let’s do this!:D” isn’t really there anymore.

I just had a good talk about the current state of GW2. Especially combined with how BT currently feels completely empty.

My money is on the February update being content and almost no bugfixes. If the current trend continues GW2 competitive WvW will be dead within its first year.

As of BT getting into T1 and being #1 for 3 weeks in a row (is it 3 already? I can’t remember) numbers have been dropping steadily and I was baffled by the low amount of people we managed to cram out during the day today.. We got 1 map to queue.. The rest was open to roll into and basically hear crickets doing sound battles.

I applaud Vizu and AS for being able to keep people interested and logging in. Cause everyone on BT knows we sure as hell aren’t able to do so.

BT #1 4 weeks – 1 month .

lin.2814:

BT #1 4 weeks – 1 month .

I have seen what you’ve done on your edit Lin lol
one word removed. time will tell !

KiNgPiN.2075:

U guess? How many guilds moved from VS to AS in order to help them stay in T1? Just kidding mate

You really have bad informations , VS and AS are hating them eachother , you really think we will move for help them?

That was sarcastic, in fact it was even mentioned at the end of your quote : “just kidding”.

Gotten quite a lot of fun already for my 60$ over the last 3-4 months(or w/e), I’m sure the world won’t end if people across all servers are getting a little bit bored and trying out different games out there. GW2 is a very casual-friendly game, and PVP is very easy to find.

I’m personally gonna check out what the fuss is about with DFUW.

Hecksa.7140:

Man, that does sound really easy now you mention it. Guess they are just noskill, button mashing failures.

Weird how no one else seems to be able to use such an easy tactic and beat them, though, isn’t it? Almost as if there’s something more to it than spamming one…nah, that’s crazy. Everyone else must just get unlucky. Repeatedly.

Feel free to massage your ego by pretending you’re better than those RG scrubs all you like.

You didn’t understand the point.

RG right now looks like some uber team, but that says more about the current poor state of GW2 than anything else. What RG does is what an average HoH (HA) team in GW1 was doing.

I also asked earlier what’s the cause of this. Why RG is pretty much the only guild I saw that does stuff like skill chaining. Something that was normal for GvG, HA, TA, back in GW1. An average spike team from GW1 (3-2-1-spike) would be perceived here in WvW as a war machine.

Whether you want to admit it or not, 95% of WvW is just that – button mashing. Even in a RG group. Few people chain needed skills, and the rest button mash. And the same happens in PvE – button mashing. I think this is the underlying reason why RG is sticking out. Players who like skill-based combat leave GW and don’t want to participate in this charade. That’s just how it is. And that’s the reason why others don’t use “such an easy tactic”. Why bother? The game is numbers and spam based not skill based. People who could play better than RG or equally good have nothing to do in GW2. It’s like expecting chessmasters to play tic-tac-toe.

And no, I don’t play anymore. I look at GW2 exactly like tic-tac-toe. The same level of depth. GW1 is vastly superior game, both tactically, fun-wise, story-wise, adventure-wise etc. If they released an expansion for GW1, I’d play it.

1 button spam from RG’s zerg against Vizu.
all other in video description.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R5gqTizfek

Empyre – Arborstone isn’t really much better than that. I know it’s not the whole server, but several guilds that bug themselves into Aldon really got us extremely pissed today. If that’s what you wanted to achieve – congrats. You’ve started it last week but now it’s just happening so often that it seems like a duty between them.

I do realize you might say “They made the terrain this way so they wanted you to be able to jump in there” or something similar. Well I’m sure as hell they did not intend people to bypass all the walls and gates.

Ianervan.3415:

Hecksa.7140:

Man, that does sound really easy now you mention it. Guess they are just noskill, button mashing failures.

Weird how no one else seems to be able to use such an easy tactic and beat them, though, isn’t it? Almost as if there’s something more to it than spamming one…nah, that’s crazy. Everyone else must just get unlucky. Repeatedly.

Feel free to massage your ego by pretending you’re better than those RG scrubs all you like.

You didn’t understand the point.

RG right now looks like some uber team, but that says more about the current poor state of GW2 than anything else. What RG does is what an average HoH (HA) team in GW1 was doing.

I also asked earlier what’s the cause of this. Why RG is pretty much the only guild I saw that does stuff like skill chaining. Something that was normal for GvG, HA, TA, back in GW1. An average spike team from GW1 (3-2-1-spike) would be perceived here in WvW as a war machine.

Whether you want to admit it or not, 95% of WvW is just that – button mashing. Even in a RG group. Few people chain needed skills, and the rest button mash. And the same happens in PvE – button mashing. I think this is the underlying reason why RG is sticking out. Players who like skill-based combat leave GW and don’t want to participate in this charade. That’s just how it is. And that’s the reason why others don’t use “such an easy tactic”. Why bother? The game is numbers and spam based not skill based. People who could play better than RG or equally good have nothing to do in GW2. It’s like expecting chessmasters to play tic-tac-toe.

And no, I don’t play anymore. I look at GW2 exactly like tic-tac-toe. The same level of depth. GW1 is vastly superior game, both tactically, fun-wise, story-wise, adventure-wise etc. If they released an expansion for GW1, I’d play it.

all this talk about gw1, not quite sure what you want with it, i think its long time since most people realized that gw1 and gw2 have nothing in common beside lore and name.
This really sucks, but talking about skillcap and so on in gw2 is just zzz to listen to, its not very high and most people know this, its about organization and thats it in wvw.

WvW has never been about skill. This has nothing to do with its playerbase but everything to do with the game. WvW in its current state doesn’t allow skill to be a definitive factor in a fight. There are way too many variables negate it. This is a numbers game before anything else, its flashy, easy to get into and promotes zerging like sheep.

The only real skill can be found in tPvP but that is already as dead as it can possibly be.

Same.4687:

WvW has never been about skill.

Skill does matter, no matter if its small scale or large scale fighting and experience means even more. Vizunah players could say something about that, in case they’re not too embarrassed to speak about it.

On the other hand , great fighting displayed this afternoon on viz BL, GF took out all vizu fully upgraded towers and garrison, Black Templars were doing great on defense and our small team gave MORT’s a lesson why it’s not smart to spend all that gold on AH upgrades. I d like to mention all the pugs that contributed also.

Never got any skill complex when facing SFRJ as far as I recall.

Saw some good team play from guilds on various servers, but as long as realms won’t have balanced coverage and numbers, both skill and team play will have a marginal impact.

Igor.1072:

Same.4687:

WvW has never been about skill.

Skill does matter, no matter if its small scale or large scale fighting and experience means even more. Vizunah players could say something about that, in case they’re not too embarrassed to speak about it.

On the other hand , great fighting displayed this afternoon on viz BL, GF took out all vizu fully upgraded towers and garrison, Black Templars were doing great on defense and our small team gave MORT’s a lesson why it’s not smart to spend all that gold on AH upgrades. I d like to mention all the pugs that contributed also.

Aslong as skill doesn’t change the outcome in a fight it doesn’t matter. In its current state skill doesn’t matter at all in WvW. Sure if you fight a 1v1 or a 5v5 the more skilled opponent will win. But in zergs it is simply impossible to beat numbers. You will never see a group of 10 beat a group of 30/40. This has nothing to do with skill, it has to do with AoE cap, downed state and other mechanics that limit the impact of skill on battles.

What you should be looking for in WvW is sheer numbers. If you have the biggest zerg you will win.

If you want to see skill at work you should play sPvP and tPvP because in that setting it actually matters. However even in sPvP and tPvP stuff like the downed state mechanic severely limits the impact of skill. You can be the best player in the world but you will not beat a 1v5 if people res downed allies.

Again, this isn’t a post calling a server or person skill-less. I’m just saying WvW isn’t won because of skill.

Same.4687 exactly what you describe happens to Viz groups on a daily basis, losing 3-4x smaller numbers in WvW.
Overall the outcome of a match isn’t determined by skill, I agree. The outcome of single fights can be.

I highly doubt that 3-4x is even remotely possible. Unless the team with the bigger zerg is 75% lowbies or is literally drooling into a bucket due to massive brain damage..

When running with my guild we crush bigger groups aswell, however I can with full honesty say that beating a zerg twice our size might just be the best we have ever done. I also feel that is about the maximum you can do in a WvW setting due to the limitations (see previous post).

I would also like to state that Vizunah is very fond of a tactical retreat. Which means instead of fighting the bulk of 40/50/60 you are most likely fighting 30/40 tops (and that might even be stretching it) while the rest is in the back looking how things turn out or running at the sight of enemies advancing their way.
Just now we were with a group of 20 people max and Vizu was defending East Keep, they would get crushed on the bridge between keep and tower but only because the majority of their zerg was running back to shoot from the walls of a fully upgraded keep.
Everyone in my guild knows that if they go for broke with their numbers they would simply crush us because you can’t beat those kind of numbers.

Hey all,

Thanks for the fights out in wvw tonight. To both AS and Viz.

Mention to Viz : You certainly have improved and became very efficient over the last few weeks with your point capping. And its working out nicely. Yep you are very squishy for a tier 1 server but after all you are pug server. A very organised one at that. And as you are a organised pug voice comms server. This is addresses to no one in particular. But well done on the whole.

update:

we have a kitten ton of guilds roaming eu primetime. you’ll fit right in.

probably wouldn’t say tons from this weeks action.

quick hihi to MoS in Viz Bl.

tita.6358:

so RG caps towers after all !

haha mainly like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AisgrSrgNVE&feature=g-subs-c

ninja!

Looks like with a lot of people on breaks, getting ready for the holidays and writing/preparing for exams, we will lose the top spot this week.
And thats without DF:UW being out, i’m sure we’ll lose a fair amount of people to that one too…

I’m still proud that we’ve managed to stay on top for the time we have, and look forward to more good fights.

Pretty obvious this week that Vizunah is focusing on us and AS mostly seems to stick to their borderlands, havent been there yet but each time i see AS somewhere else they have the outmanned buff

Same.4687:

You will never see a group of 10 beat a group of 30/40. This has nothing to do with skill, it has to do with AoE cap, downed state and other mechanics that limit the impact of skill on battles.

It may be the time for you to consider playing for another guild or team up with other players, because I have played in a 10 man group killing three times our numbers and more. It all comes down to skill and tactic, and the lack of in the opposing team.

But I agree with the culling problem this has become harder, both since facing larger numbers makes both allies and enemy invisible, you really need to stick to lower numbers. But still you can use tactic to survive. Just don’t run where you think the aoe will be

Visunah Square is tier one server from start of the game. Speaking about them in negative is just silly. You guys are true powerhouse and i can only /salute you and hope that Blacktide will manage to do the same in top tier.

I know Blacktide is sleeping at this moment, some guilds are taking a break as they don’t have motivation to fight anymore but i hope they will realise that we can drop down if we don’t wake up soon.

Anyway, good luck on the field!

Vukanigia.5496:

Visunah Square is tier one server from start of the game. Speaking about them in negative is just silly. You guys are true powerhouse and i can only /salute you and hope that Blacktide will manage to do the same in top tier.

I know Blacktide is sleeping at this moment, some guilds are taking a break as they don’t have motivation to fight anymore but i hope they will realise that we can drop down if we don’t wake up soon.

Anyway, good luck on the field!

I have to agree with that. Ppl are taking break after being N1 for 3 weeks. But im sure BT will stay in T1 unless some drasctic exodus happend. GJ this week Vizu

mOlder.4803

I have played in a 10 man group killing three times our numbers and more.

Was this while you were awake?

Once in GvG i soloed a split a team team of 4, all by myself.

Happened…. ~<15 times in 7 years.

WvW is simply about zerging, but if you disagree, i challenge you to post anything that tactically will blow us away, something that is acomplished by 5 players together.

Something realistic.

Unrealistically i could capture the whole map alone, if i was a Golem and noone was there to kill me.

mOlder is a Guardian, though, he’s op :p
But yes, if people work together it’s perfectly possible, do note that he also says “It all comes down to skill and tactic, and the lack of in the opposing team.”

A guild group who know how to work to work together, know how to play thier classes and ave a good leader can take out pug groups several times larger than themselves quite easily.

It’s even more possible if you are playing against Baruch Bay.

There is no real reason to argue about this. It’s basically mathematically impossible to beat a team 3 times as large as yours due to the AoE restrictions.

In a straight up fight where a group of 10 goes up against a group of 30 and NO-ONE runs away but fights till the end the group of 10 does not stand a chance. This is not open for debate this isn’t any kind of “I got more button pressing skills” discussion.
People have been talking about this since day 1 where the AoE cap (of 5) has been at the center of, it promotes zerging to the extent that ANet did not think of this.

Now I know I might be hurting some of the forum warriors their feelings by saying what they are saying is highly improbable or even downright impossible but its fact vs fiction.

A small example (10vs30),
Let’s say everyone in your team does max AoE you would be able to hit 50 players which means everyone in the opposing team gets hit while 66.67% of their team gets hit by 2 different AoE’s ( (30+(0.6667*30))=~50 )

Let’s say that 33.33% (0.3333*30=~10) of the enemies are as capable as you are and are able to hit you with max AoE it means they are capable of hitting 50 people aswell. However in their case it would mean that every single one of your party members gets hit by 5 AoE spells.
If the rest of their team (20) would simply autoattack they would still be able to hit every single person in your team with 2 autoattacks to your 1.

Now there’s this variable you refer to as skill, the ability to press buttons better than others because you know what the effects of said buttons are. Right? Wrong. 1 to 1 odds are easily beaten by a show of skill. 1 to 2 odds are already rather iffy because of the downed state that this game has (unhasted stomp takes longer than an immediate res). 1 to 3 odds shouldn’t even be thought off because of the way this game works, sure it happens on small scale fights like 1 vs 3 where 1 player is highly skilled and the other 3 consist of 1 skilled player and 2 people who stop cars with their head for fun.
However the bigger the groups get the more the ratio for winning goes down

That would make perfect sense – if the group of 10 just kinda stood there and tried to outlast the group of 30. Which is down-right idiotic and only gets you killed.

Or if the group of 10 only spammed aoe. Which is not what happens if you actually want to pull that off.

Same.4687:

In a straight up fight where a group of 10 goes up against a group of 30 and NO-ONE runs away but fights till the end the group of 10 does not stand a chance.

Exactly what he said.

Common sense is so rare nowadays that it has become a super weapon.

Common sense also dictates that if you’re heavily outnumbered, you’re not going to jsut stand there with your thumb up your kitten and wait to die.

You can take down groups larger than yours in this game if you’re running around with few people, i’m sorry for you if you’ve never had the pleasure doing that.

Well guys if all of you think that ONLY numbers matter, then I’m sorry but u might never find this game fun long-term. Yes numbers matter a lot but it is much more enjoyable if you manage to win a fight when you’re outnumbered 2:1 or more. And feels epic.

Yeah would be much better without the culling bug but…

I call bullkitten on all accounts until someone comes up with any form of proof. I’m in Nugos myself and am well aware of my capabilities and that of my guild.

But I will toss you another bone just to make you look silly.

If a group of 30 spreads out vs a group of 10 who’s spread out. Your chances get even smaller but you most likely don’t realize that. Your AoE/Damage capabilities are half (already accounting for some bad skill/bad gear/lowbies in the group of 30) or even less than half of what the group of 30 can poop out.
If a group of 30 spreads out your chances to make full use of your AoE/Damage decrease.

And if your group of 10 spreads out you are 100% dead because you need every buff/heal/aoe boons you can get to even stand a chance of surviving longer than 1 minute.

I also never said its impossible to take out larger groups than yours. I did however claim it’s highly improbable and borderline impossible to take out a group 3/4 times larger than you (as someone so boldly stated earlier in this thread).
With Nugos we have taken on zergs about twice our size and came out victorious but that was absolutely stretching it AND the opposing zerg was highly disorganized and had lowbies/PUGs running around in it. We however are not disorganized, don’t run with many PUGs or lowbies. We knew what we were doing, we went in with a plan and buffed out to the teeth.

Hell I would even consider going out on a limb and stating it’s impossible to beat a group of 30 with 10 if the group of 30 is limited to auto-attacks. Want to know why? Because logic states that at any time 3 of the opponents are capable of hitting 1 of yours. The moment 1 goes down those numbers go up exponentially.

By now I’m just humoring you two with arguments that most likely tear at the very fabric you call kittens but it’s simply not possible that a T1/T2 server will lose a 3 to 1 ratio battl. Unless ofcourse you are hoping that somehow 90% of your opponents are in fact potatoes.

EDIT: CIR is a proper guild, you probably record your glorious WvW battles. Bring me some proof that shows your group of ragtag warriors beating a zerg three times your size.

Ok I have lots of footage, but I haven’t gotten to making a movie yet. Here’s a free taste The funny thing is we have faced larger numbers

And yes we die also, but I think I prove that a small group (7ppl) can still be a force to be reckoned with.

Edit: I know I suck in this movie, not having stacks or food, but it’s kinda old and we have improved a lot since this. I just wanted to show small groups can still play vs numbers.

To me the video shows exactly what Same was talking about.

Btw you should try the Hammer to get along with your staff, it’s really fun to play in small group.

Ok. I will never try to attack a much larger force than ourselves again, since’ it’s 99% probable that we will lose.

I don’t know about you, but I live for that 1%. If the game would allow 10 man to easily beat 30 man, do you think people would think that’s fine as well? I just won’t listen to people telling me what’s possible or not, because I have seen some epic kitten in some fights that I’ve had, and having someone on a forum saying it’s not supposed to be possible, I couldn’t care less :p

Anyways, I will try to make some more movies and nice tactics in the future. But you’re probably gonna flame it anyways

I’m not flaming, I’m correcting. People often think they just wiped a group that is 3-4x larger than theirs but in reality it might have been closer to 1,5-2x larger. Nevertheless impressive but nothing as epic as you make it out to be.

A 1,5/2 to 1 ratio can be overcome in smaller groups because skill actually makes a difference at that level. However when you start talking zergs of 10 and up that is all off the table.

I’m a do or die player myself. Full condition thief always jumping around in the midst of the enemy zerg to losen them up so my zerg can try and steamroll them. However when the numbers are against you, all you can hope for is that you scare them enough so they scatter and you can pick off small groups.

Nice fights this week and a lot of kittenn IG:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF1pnOCaCqo
and on forums (less jolwar, more thread like this please):
http://www.grandcross.fr/forum/welcome-mates-!/joy-of-wvw/

Logales.5431:

and on forums (less jolwar, more thread like this please):
http://www.grandcross.fr/forum/welcome-mates-!/joy-of-wvw/

More, GIVE ME MOAR!

Also known as:
Lol, nice thread and nice gifs

Logales.5431:

and on forums (less jolwar, more thread like this please):
http://www.grandcross.fr/forum/welcome-mates-!/joy-of-wvw/

i nearly spilled my tea over my keyboard

keep em coming

Logales.5431:

and on forums (less jolwar, more thread like this please):
http://www.grandcross.fr/forum/welcome-mates-!/joy-of-wvw/

:)) Thank you for this!

Same.4687:

I call bullkitten on all accounts until someone comes up with any form of proof.
/snip

There: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IFfsYGEpD0E#t=525s
Now, since there is actually a whole bunch of people telling you that the Earth does in fact move around the Sun, can we move on?

Seth Lex.5493:

Same.4687:

I call bullkitten on all accounts until someone comes up with any form of proof.
/snip

There: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IFfsYGEpD0E#t=525s
Now, since there is actually a whole bunch of people telling you that the Earth does in fact move around the Sun, can we move on?

Wow. Luring pugs into choke points is very hard indeed. Its nearly as hard as funneling doors…. something yall seem very proud to do ?

Re-read:

If a group of 30 spreads out vs a group of 10 who’s spread out.

saVdoom.2067:

Seth Lex.5493:

Same.4687:

I call bullkitten on all accounts until someone comes up with any form of proof.
/snip

There: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IFfsYGEpD0E#t=525s
Now, since there is actually a whole bunch of people telling you that the Earth does in fact move around the Sun, can we move on?

Wow. Luring pugs into choke points is very hard indeed. Its nearly as hard as funneling doors…. something yall seem very proud to do ?

Re-read:

If a group of 30 spreads out vs a group of 10 who’s spread out.

Mate, it’s one of SFR strongest guilds, OSC plus their followers (Paladini guild plus the usual pu that run after each commander tag they see)

Seth Lex.5493:

Same.4687:

I call bullkitten on all accounts until someone comes up with any form of proof.
/snip

There: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IFfsYGEpD0E#t=525s
Now, since there is actually a whole bunch of people telling you that the Earth does in fact move around the Sun, can we move on?

Close but no cookie. Here’s why, your group consisted of 17 people and theirs of 31 (give or take 2/3 ALSO considering its impossible to account for “beasts” I would say less than 30 is a nice number). Yes I did an exact headcount on yours and tried to do an exact headcount on theirs.
Want to know why I spent 2 minutes counting? Because I wanted to make a point. People see a large blob of red names and always assume the worst. I don’t even remember the number of times a PUG or scout told us “THERE ARE 30/40 PLAYERS ATTACKING OUR TOWER” then when you get there it’s 20 people tops.
Want to know why this happens? Because none of us is freaking Rainman up in this mofo. And because of that we always assume the worst and when we beat the worst we always assume the best. It’s a really weird phenomena that has been around for ages, combine that with the euphoria from winning a battle you didn’t think you’d win and you have yourself a mighty tale.

Nevertheless you beating another guild that had about the same numbers (could only count 16 OSC members) with a sizeable PUG running with them is impressive. I’ve had the pleasure of doing this to a MORT raid recently and it was glorious indeed. However it still doesn’t count as a 3 to 1 ratio or even worse in their favor.

This doesn’t refute anything I have stated so far but it did however gain you a compliment most of you are aching for. Cause lets face it you went through the trouble to find this fight didn’t you?

Again, this isn’t a flame. I’m actually trying to point out what’s wrong with this game. ANet promised a competitive environment where guilds could make a difference. But then they put up a unbreakable wall of limitations that stop said guilds from doing exactly what they made out to do.

To put it into a real life example:
ANet has done a political campaign, they promised a lot of stuff so we gave them the power. But when the curtain fell and they sat in their throne, one by one the bricks came tumbling down to unveil the big picture. And now, no matter how hard we scream and stomp, 99% of our voices get ignored.

Seriously lol’ed at your GIF thread Frenchies

Thank you all for great fun on BT border lastnight.

To Same:
Imagine a RL scenario. Give 30/40 monkeys their own fully-loaded machinegun, and try to take them out with 9 of your best friends. I wouldn’t exactly go head-to-head vs them on an open field. I don’t get what you’re trying to prove. The culling problem has been identified and we can only hope it will be fixed. But still I don’t know why you insist you should be superior to those monkeys when all logic states you shouldn’t charge in head first? :p

To be fair, those monkeys would likely end up taking each other out by accident, in GW2 that isn’t really possible :p